The NAACP

Published Feb 4, 2021, 1:59 PM

The NAACP has long been one of the most robust and effective non-profits in the USA. And while it has faded a bit from its glory days, it still remains a vital cog in the battle for equality.

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Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck and Jerry's out there somewhere. Uh, and this is stuff you should Know N double A CP edition. That's right. I was thinking about this, well, I was researching, Chuck. No one ever says N A A c P. I've never heard anybody say everyone says N double A c P, which I think kind of gives the whole thing, Uh, kind of like a like an old friend kind of feel to it, you know what I'm saying. Well, yeah, I mean since you brought that up. Um, there have been people questioning the name in modern times of National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, and some people have floated African Americans, so in in double A double A I guess could be a way that you would say that, but um, they this was I think from two thousand seven, So the leader of the Double A CP at the time, I think there's a there's so much in the name, so much currency at this point. Yeah, that switching it is kind of tough. And also, um, he said, you know, we're kind of about the rights of many kinds of people, UM, so we don't want to just say African Americans. So yeah, and there's a lot lots of lengthy articles, but it seemed to make sense. And from actually what i've what I've read is the UM, the double A CP is kind of in this lengthy process of UM kind of reinventing itself or re establishing itself. And it seems like one of the things that they are starting to kind of go for is UM, especially economic equality for all people. So that really kind of jibes with you know this uh that it's almost like they grew into the name finally now in the twenty one century, which is surprising. It's kind of neat. Yeah, it should be hot back in the old way back machine. It's been a little while. We gotta put some air in the tires first. But yes, did we get in that thing at all last year? I don't think so, which is surprising. You know, we should have been getting that thing every day. Yeah, I know, and we totally didn't. But okay, so here we go. We're getting in the way back and all right, well we're gonna go back to uh, let's go back to nineteen o nine. Who might as well go back to when the organization was founded, and the reason why was because, well, for lots of reasons, but I think this sort of inciting incident was in August of nineteen o eight when in Springfield, Illinois, there were two gentlemen arrested on suspicion of rape and attempted rape and murder, and the cops there were a little afraid of what might happen because, as you will see in this episode, there was a tendency for extra judicial violence a k a. Lynchings to happen if people got worked up. So they said, let's get these guys out of here, let's take them to another town. The mob of people show up and realized that they have been moved and did not take kindly to that and rioted in Springfield. Yeah. So, like as a result of this this Springfield riot, there were like two thousand black residents of Springfield, Illinois who were displaced. They just didn't have homes anymore because they've been burned to the ground. Um. Six people were murdered. Um. Two people were lynched. Two innocent men were lynched basically as stand ins for the two men that they had originally intended to lynch. Yeah, sixteen people ended up UM losing their lives over those three days, and nine black people UM, seven white people. Five died from conflict with the state militia that was called in in two white people died by suicide. And for many many years up until I think semi recently, the seven white people that died, those deaths were attributed to UM to being killed by black people that were there, and that is not the case. They were literally rewriting history in that case. One of the other big things about this too is UM aside from the fact that it happened, and this was you know, these happened with enough frequency like that it was a it was a real problem. UM. But one of the other things about these these you know, race riots or UM massacres of black residents you know usually that evolved out of a lynching UM, was that they went unpunished. UM. Oftentimes they were uninvestigated. There just wasn't much, if anything done about them. So the kind of UM it became clear that this is a larger issue was already very clear among the African American community in the United States, but it UM kind of caught the the attention of UM some connected white um social justice activists who were working at the time too, that's right. Uh So in nineteen o nine, a man named W. E. B. Du Bois, which is one of the great all time names if you've got three initials and that's what you're gonna roll with in Duba is a pretty killer name too. But he was a humanities professor, he was a writer. Um, he was the first African American to earn a doctorate degree from a university in the United States, Harvard. That's right. He got together with forty other social activists in New York and uh, it was you know, it was it was mixed races. It was a group of black people and white people, mixed religions. There were Jewish people there. Um. That was described as a group of black and white activist, Jews and Gentiles in the Library of Congress. And they chose February twelve to get together because that was Abraham Lincoln's birthday and that is where they established their first charter as a group. Yeah. The first time they met, um, they were not considered the n double a CP. It wasn't until their second meeting the first time they called themselves the National Negro Committee, and then in nineteen ten when they met again, they said, well, let's call ourselves the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, and the n double a CP was officially born, although they consider the actual founding back in nineteen o nine, and like you said, yeah, there was. It was multi racial, multi ethnic, UM, and white people were involved because they were very much concerned about the quality of life and the um viability of getting ahead for African Americans in in the United States at the time. And for UM this organization to really kind of find its legs and find its footing and survive, it's like crucial first few years. UM, it needed very well connected, very wealthy white supporters, and so there was an integration at the highest levels. And then eventually within a few years it was kind of like okay, it's it's you know, we it's time for us to step back. We've we've established this thing UM and and it can kind of go indefinitely from here. Yeah. So getting back to that charter, I think it's the words are pretty important. It said it was to promote equality of rights and eradicate cast or race prejudice among citizens in the United States. To advance the interest of colored citizens, to secure for them impartial suffrage, and to increase their opportunities for securing justice in the courts, education for their children, employment according to their ability, and complete equality before the law. And I think it's pretty import and because it really kind of laid the groundwork for what UM. I mean, you know, there have been all sorts of activist groups over the years in the African American community, and there's was always sort of about let's attack this in the courts, and let's attack it from let's attack these systems in the courts that are you know, where the cards are so stacked against us by law, and let's get some of these laws overturned. Yeah, and that was I mean, that's still been their strategy basically throughout it was. It was the strategy from the beginning and it still is today, which is UM and not an opposition, but it's it's complementary to other strategies like direct action, which is like UM, you know, going to UH counter and sitting in and protest to segregated lunch counter or not giving your seat up on a bus. UM. And you know, during the civil rights ares, we'll see like the n Double A c P had an involvement direct action, but it's always been known as like this like just shooting for the biggest trophies of all, you know, like change, fundamental change at the national level legislatively. Um, that's what they've always kind of been about, the Double A CP. Yeah. So some of these, uh, some of the folks in the very first group, um, the first president was a constitutional lawyer named Moore Field story great man. There was a woman named Florence Kelly who was also an attorney who worked a lot in uh an employment reform. Do you remember her from the Francis Perkins episode. She was the woman who inspired Francis Perkins. Yeah, she is great. Who else? Uh, Well, they were you know, they needed to um make some way in the press. That was sort of one of the big problems at the time is you know, lynchings weren't being covered in the press. A lot of their rights that were being trampled on weren't covered in the mainstream press. So they had a good group of writers, um essayist, journe list that would get in there and they would, you know, they would they founded their own paper, which was huge. The crisis which is still around today their magazine, but mainly just trying to get recognized in mainstream newspapers with their work. Yeah. Again, some of the early supporters and UM people who were founding members had big time connections in the press, like one guy Oswald Garrison Villard. He was the publisher of the New York Evening Post and the Nation magazine, so he could very easily get stories about things like lynchings into his his paper and his magazine UM, where other other places wouldn't print that kind of stuff. And then yeah, as the subscribership of the Crisis Crew, UM had a bigger and bigger impact. So yeah, kind of part and parcel. It seemed like with this legislative action was generating public support through the press. It's kind of like this two pronged approach. All right, should we take a little pause for the cause. Yeah, alright, we're gonna take a break and be right back to talk about some of their early successes right after this. So if you look at some of the early successes in the first part of the twentieth century, one of the big ones you can point to is in Oklahoma in nineteen ten, where they had a state regulation, uh that limited the rights of black citizens to vote. It was a grandfather clause basically where they said, you need and I think we talked about this in the Voter Suppression EPP. But um, you need to be able to pass a literacy tests and order to be eligible to vote unless you had a grandfather who voted in eighteen sixty six. And side note, this is before black people were allowed to vote in Oklahoma. So they basically were saying, if you're illiterate and you're white, you can vote. If you're illiterate and you're black, you can't. Yeah, that Oklahoma law was particularly agreed to say. It was one of I think like seven or eight states that had a grandfather clause. But Oklahomas said, um, not only if your grandfather could vote in eighteen sixty six, if he lived in another country in eighteen sixty six and would have been eligible to vote or could vote in that country, you your grandfathered in. So basically, as long as you weren't black, you could you could vote, even if you were illiterate. So UM, the n double a CP filed suit against this um in a very famous case called Gwyn versus the US. UM and Gwyn was named after Frank gwyn And who, along with J. J. Bale, where a couple of elections officers who had who had basically been charged with disenfranchising black voters through the grandfather clause. And the Supreme Court heard this and said, you know what this is. Uh, this n Double A CP group. I've not heard of them before, but they present a pretty good case. So we're going to go ahead and overturn this grandfather clause. And you know, this is nineteen fifteen. The Double A CP had only met for the very first time six years before, and all of a sudden they're overturning UM race based discrimination laws about voting at the Supreme Court. And that definitely caught the attention of people in the civil rights UM community for sure. Yeah. That's why. I mean, it's when you look back through history, this the state's rights argument that we still here today is such a tricky thing because you know, states should be allowed to do a lot of things as they see fit, but you can't you can't disenfranchise voters, willfully disenfranchise voters, Uh, And that's when the federal government comes in and people start crying foul that they want to be able to run their elections their way, which means we don't want black people to vote, and you just can't do that. You know. I've been thinking about this recently since we did our Clan episode, because I noticed that every time the clan went away, it was after the federal government intervened because the states wouldn't write. And something I came up with, like just a good rule of thumb or a good litmus test, is does this law discriminate against anybody's right anybody? It doesn't matter what group it is. Forget the group, take the group out of it. Is it a discriminatory law? And I cannot think of a single instance where a discriminatory law would be beneficial for the greater good of of the country um or for the health of the of democracy. I just I can't think of one. Um unless you're you're discriminating, discriminating against somebody's right to discriminate against somebody, maybe that would be the case. But that seemed to be a pretty good rule of thumb to me that I just came up with, does the law discriminate yes, well, then it's probably a pretty bad law. Hey, Josh, Yeah, that's about how far into the future, I should try my hand and what is that but years that I I don't know, but we're all just basically whisps of ones and zeros. I think by then. Another big thing that kind of happened early on it was we talked about Birth of the Nation in our episode on the Clan, and they in Double A CP got together and they said, let's boycott this terrible movie. And the boycott didn't do a lot in terms of shutting anything down in terms of Birth of a Nation, but it did draw them some finally some mainstream publicity, and um got them written up in newspapers at least, right, So, I mean they had some early successes, um, and especially with overturning the grandfather clause. But I don't know if it was after this or around this time they really kind of redoubled their efforts back onto the original intention, which was to do something about lynching, to get an anti leg anti lynching law, national federal law passed in the United States. And UM, what's crazy is that that still hasn't happened, and that is recently, is June of we we failed to do it yet again, um, which is just nuts to me. But the the n double A cp UM was really trying to get this to get legislation passed. You know, even back then it just made sense. Now today it's just shameful that we don't have something. But the thing that kind of redoubled or refocused the double A CPS efforts on UM anti lynching legislation was the lynching of a teenager named Jesse Washington in Waco, Texas in nineteen sixteen. And even as far as lynchings go, this was particularly gruesome. Yeah. I mean, not only was the act gruesome, which was he was tortured, um, hanged, set on fire, uh and beaten, but it was in front of oh. Estimates range from eight to seventeen thousand people like basically the size of a small, you know, hockey arena, medium, medium sized hockey arena. You're like, I'm not going above medium. Well, I'm trying to think these days, how much does like your average NBA hockey arena. Hold, it's more like, how I don't I'm such a terrible judge of anything like that. So well, let's just say a medium sized hockey arena. I think they got it across. And the only reason I'm saying that is because it's if you try and if you go to a pro sports game or a big concert, try to imagine that many people gathered together to watch a man, a human being beat burned and hanged in front of your face. And I tried to put myself in the not in the mindset, but out of all those people, like how many of those fifteen thousand people were fully charged do this? Do this? And how many as it happened, were like, my god, what is happened to us as human beings and Americans? Were there any people there that regretted what was going on? I'm sure some, And if they didn't regretted during they I'm sure some regretted it afterward. But I think one of the things that made Jesse Washington's lynching so disturbing to the rest of the nation was that it was reported that there was a carnival like atmosphere where people were enjoying themselves and enjoying their time, gathered together with Um all the other residents of Waco and and lynching this this teenager. UM and the n double a c P sent an investigator there to to basically document the whole thing, and she came back with this report that became something called the UM the Horror of Waco or the Waco Horror and UM the n double A CP said we're going to we're gonna get this out there. We're gonna tell the world about this, and they definitely did, and it had a really big impact. You know, what it reminds me of is is the only thing I can compare it to these days is when a UM, a high profile death row inmate is executed and outside the prison they have those parties and stuff. Uh. You know, I don't want to wait into the capital punishment debate here, but there's something about that blood lust that just feels really gross to me. Yeah, and that's my official statement. You're talking about somebody's life and vengeance. Anytime vengeance is driving things, it's usually time to take a pause and reflect on what you're doing. You know, I've got all the rules of coming out today, Josh. Yeah. Um. So yeah, So they put out these pictures, like you said, Um, we're covered in mainstream newspapers in you know, I think it shocked the country. Um, obviously not enough, but it was a big wake up call. I think to a lot of people. What happened in Waco and the end in double a CP was able to UM to really pivot on this and bring up something like the Dire Bill, which I think was the first piece of anti lynching legislation UM sponsored by Leonidas another great name, Leonidas Dire, Republican Congressman from Missouri, UM that died in the Senate. I think it passed the House in two and then died in a Senate after a filibuster from the Southern Democrats, Yes, the Dixiecrats UM. And that was just the first of many many ato. Yeah, apparently over like by the middle of the century, there were two hundred anti lynching bills that were introduced and died in Congress just by the mid century. And like I was saying, as recently as m June of there was a h anti lynching law that was that passed the Senate unanimously one zero, and then it went over to the House where it passed four hundred and fifteen four and ten to four. Then the only thing the House did was changed the name to the Emmett Till Anti Lynching Law, which means then it had to go back to the Senate to be passed again. Because that one change has had been made, the name had been changed, and when it got back to the Senate, Ran Paul from Kentucky said, I don't feel good about this, even though he was part of the unanimous Senate that had passed it unanimously just before, and no other change was made except for the name. Um, and that really ticked a lot of people off. But still to this day that law was blocked and the United States still does not have a law that makes lynching a federal crime. Yeah, so if you want to, I mean, this was really big news. Um. So I'm sure a lot of people know about this, But if you're curious about Ran Paul's defense was he said, quote, this bill would cheapen the meaning of lynching by defining it so broadly as to include a minor bruise or abrasion. Our national history of Rachiel terrorism demands much more serious than seriousness than that. So what he was contending was, uh, he wanted he wants the language changed, um, because in the language now it says the standard in federal hate crimes is serious or I'm sorry, is um bodily injury. And I think he wants it changed to serious bodily injury. In other words, if someone gets punched in the ace, it would be called and considered a lynching in the way it's written now. And he said there should be substantial risk of death and extreme physical pain in order to qualify as lynching. Otherwise, he said, it disrespects what real lynchings were. Uh, so take that for what it is, Um, for what it's worth. The Senate formally apologized in two thousand five for failing to outlaw lynching. So they apologize into thousand five, and still it hasn't been put forward on the books. Yeah. So, UM, the like we said, the the n double a c p UM for decades and decades leading up to the Civil rights era, UM was very much, uh focused on preventing lynching, on getting lynching outlawed. I'm bringing attention to the huge, massive issue of lynching in the United States. UM. They had a flag that they would unfurl outside of their headquarters in New York whenever, UM a lynching was reported, and it just said a man was lynched yesterday, UM, which I read it. Yeah, I read it, and I was like, wow, that's you know, that must have been something that I saw a picture of it and it's one of those ones where a picture is worth a thousand words, Like don't you see it? It really drives home what they were doing, um and really kind of makes you really like the n double a C P. Like, yeah, go get them, you know, let's get lynching outlawed. Yeah. I mean you talked about the numbers over that time period. The four thousand plus comes out to uh more than one lynching a week in the United States over that period that was like verified, known and reported, so clearly you know, probably more than that. Um. So yeah, this is happening literally on a weekly basis in the United States. Someone is going out on their own vigilante style and hanging uh. Not always hanging a black man, sometimes worse. Yeah, I mean if you can. There were sometimes they would just burn the whole black section of town down, like in in nineteen seventeen St. Louis saw um a race massacre, just like there had been in Springfield not too long before. So um, like, yeah, it wasn't just lynching, it was just mob violence and enforcement of segregation. I think the thing that set off um the St. Louis uh riot was a black family moved into a white neighborhood. If I'm not mistaken, that was the instance that set it off. So yeah, it was a yeah, that was a real problem. Racial violence was an even bigger problem than it is today back before the Civil rights eara right, So during the civil rights era, obviously the in A CP is going to be very active. Um saw some really great successes. They're sort of leading the way, lobbying in the capitol, trying just scores and scores of cases in the courts, UM, helping people register to vote, taking part in Mississippi's Freedom Summer in nineteen sixty four. Um, if you don't know, if you know the name Rosa Parks and know what she did, you may not know that she was the Montgomery in Double a CP secretary, so she actually worked for the organization. Yeah, I don't remember. Did we do a whole episode on Rosa Parks in the bus boycott or was it part of another episode we did. I can't remember all of our videos and everything is just a big stew in my head at this point. Well, we did. We did the one on the freedom schools for sure, UM, and I don't remember what we did, but we talked a lot about Rosa Parks. And I don't know if it was her own episode or not. If not, she deserves her own episode. But yeah, she she was a secretary for the Double A CP in Birmingham or Montgomery. I'm sorry. And if you start to look at some of the big events of the civil rights Sarah, you start to realize that, oh, wait a minute, that was an in Double A CP field officer or those purse those but were um, you know, uh, members of the local in Double A CP branch. There were a lot of like legal strategies and cases that were launched by the Double A CP that appeared to just be direct action like Rosa Parks had had enough and wasn't going to get up that day. Um that that when you peel back the layer a little bit. This is part of a larger strategy of trying to force lawsuits in court cases so that they can um go all the way up to the Supreme Court. And sometimes they were very very effective. Yeah, I mean notably, uh in the in the mid nineteen fifties, they set their sights on the school system and separate but equal. They wanted to take that down and Brown versus versus Board of Education, you know, one of the landmark cases in the history of this country. UM Thorogood Marshall in in Double a CP lawyer who was actually later on in the late sixties became the first black Supreme Court justice. He argued, um, that segregation in public school rules is I mean, it is flat out, very clearly unconstitutional. And this is one of those times where every justice on the Court agreed and said, yeah, that that that is not constitutional in any way. Right. Um, so I think they said that we uh, that we need to desegregate with all all haste. I can't remember the exact wording, but it was. It was vague enough that it was, yeah, they're like, what exactly constitutes lickity split? Like, sure, it's faster than a turtles crawl, but is it as fast as a hair running? Um? And the Supreme Court but that there was a huge backlash to that. It wasn't just like, you know, especially the Southern States were like, all right, you know, we had a pretty good run at a segregated school system. It's you know, it's it's run its course, and now it's time to disegregate. That's not at all how it went. At the very least local municipalities and even states tried to come up with new laws that provided loopholes to segregation. UM. Some states said, well, fine, maybe we'll just abolish public schools altogether and then we don't have to follow this this federal law any longer. UM. There were there was physical violence. There was just a tremendous amount of pushback to the idea of desegregating schools, and the whole thing like really kind of found its fruition at Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas, UM, which was I don't I don't know if it was the first high school to be desegregated, UM or if it was just the one that that was the most nuts or the first one that was the most nuts. But the the governor of Arkansas said not on my watch, and he called out something like ten thousand National Guard troops to be there on the first day of school, I think September four, even to block the entry of the kids who are known as the Little Rock nine nine African American high school students whose bravery is just breathtaking when you stop and think about it, who were trying to go into this newly desegregated high school to go to class and they were blocked for something like I think twenty days before they could finally make their way in. Yeah. This was after the Little Rock school Board unanimously voted to integrate their schools. They were going to start with high school that year, uh, and then followed the following year with junior high and elementary school. And like you said, those nine and not only brave kids, but you know, families of those kids, because they all had to endure what was coming obviously, Um, they tried and it got Uh. This is the part that's really confusing, because Governor Falbos went to Newport, Rhode Island to meet with President Eisenhower about this. It's described as a brief meeting, and Eisenhower supposedly thought that Falbos had agreed to enroll these students and said that, you know, to go ahead and keep those troops there to keep everything safe. And I don't know if that was a genuine misunderstanding. UM. I read lots of accounts of this, and it seems to have been a misunderstanding. Uh. He got back to a Little Rock, though, and there was a court order on September from a federal judge that said you got to get those troops out of there and let these kids go to school. And they slipped him in, literally slipped him in the side door, and a full scale riot erupted. And uh, he you know, he allowed this violence to happen, couldn't stop it, and they called up for federal help at that time, and that's when Eisenhower had to step in an issue Executive Order one oh seven three zero, which called him the hundred and first Airborne. The white troops of the one first Airborne, they withdrew the Black troops. And um, they they didn't stay there all year, but there were army units there for the remainder of the academic year. Um. And one, one of the Little Rock nine, UM was a senior and he graduated, became one of the first African American students to graduate from public high school in the US or from an integrated high school. UM. I think four of the nine who didn't four of the eight who didn't graduate, we're willing to go back the next year. The others are like, forget that, man, this is crazy. We literally need the army to enforce it. Yeah. I mean when one girl was pushed down the stairs, one girl had acid thrown on her face. Um, they were berated and harangued on a daily basis, not just by like students, but by parents and stuff. It was just one of the ugliest chapters of American history was UM desegregation of schools and desegregation in general, but school was in particular because we're talking about kids here, you know what I'm saying, kids who are being subjected to that is about enough for adults too, but for for you know, even teenagers on doubt, it's just disgusting. Should we take another break? Yes, all right, we're going to take a break, and we're going to come back and wrap it up with the post civil rights area years and where we stand today with the a c P right after this, So chuck. The Double a CP definitely had a huge hand along with a bunch of other groups including the Southern Christian Leadership Conference and the Student Non Lenk Coordinating Committee, just a lot of different groups UM to help get some massive legislation pass Remember we said from the outset, the Double a CP had always been UM focused on social justice and change improvement in the lives of African Americans through legislation through basically federal government intervention saying Okay, everybody's equal. Now we're going to enforce that. And they did it. They got it passed with the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, the Fair Housing Act, um, the sweeping UH reforms that were passed in the sixties. They basically achieved their goal. And what's ironic is from almost that point forward they were like, Okay, well, how do we how do we proceed from here? And there's been a lot of um opportunity for people to take pop shots at the nub a CP in question the relevancy and the post civil rights era UM, which I think when you really kind of dig into it, is generally unfair, but in some cases it's been warranted too. And you can make a case that the a CP is still to this day trying to figure out their their bearings again in a post civil rights era. Yeah, this kind of started in the seventies when there was a bit of an ideological shift in protest and how that looks um and instead of in the courtroom, we did great episode on the Black Power or no, we did a Black Panther, but it was part of the black power movement UM, and that was a little more in fashion at the time, a little more in your face kind of activism. The indelible in double a CP I think was sort of looked at a little bit is like, well, you know that your that your grandfather's organization impression too. Yeah, and like we wanna we want to get up in your face and really make some news and make some change that way. UM. I think revenue stayed pretty high, uh in the mid seventies until they started getting hit with a lot of lawsuits. There were always in court defending things as well as is trying to get UM legislation passed and and prosecuting things. But that left them on the verge of bankruptcy at one point. Uh, there were a couple of high profile presidents that were fired. UM, there were allegations of financial mismanagement. UM. They had to lay off a lot of its workforce in two thousand seven, and so it's just it's been a little bit tougher ROADAHO since the civil rights era. UM. In two thousand four, the I R S Gun involved because they are a nonprofit and they said you're supposed to be a nonpartisan group here, and you're saying things in particular, UH, this speech in two thousand four, which is um pretty much very anti Bush and you can't do that as a nonprofit. So it's been sort of a more um irregular path that they've been on, and they've been trying to find their way. I think, yeah, the n double a c P has kind of been stuck in between a rock and a hard place thing where they're accused on one side of being way too moderate and not really active enough. On the other side, they're accused of being anti republican, you know, And they actually came out against that i r S threat and investigation. There was a two year investigation into whether or not they should hold their five oh one C three status um, and they they came back. They blasted back. Rather than just kind of taking it. They said, well, wait a minute, Um, this is the Bush Administration's i r S saying we shouldn't be talking smack about President Bush or criticizing President Bush. That seems fairly politically motivated. And the i r S ended up dropping that investigation and they kept their five O one C three status. So good for them on that tip. But one of the other big problems I read, um, you kind of said, like there was this especially during the Black Power movement of the seventies, they were criticized as not being in your face enough, of being just too bureaucratic and slow moving. The same exact accusations are being leveled against them still today. UM very much in the face of the Black Lives Matter movement. UM. And one of the big problems that the Double A c P has is there's a it's a really centralized organization. There's like, I think, branches across the United States. There's a lot of different branches to keep up with. There's a sixty four member board. It's amazing that they get anything done, but that that huge UM, that that large board has a big a lot of control over the individual branches. Like apparently, if you're a branch, if you want to go out and join like a march, you know, against the death of George Floyd or against police brutality or something like that, you want to get into the streets, you have to get permission from the Double A CP board first. UM. And that board is aging as well. And there's a lot of criticism about it being slow moving, about being out of touch, and about it being way too bloated a bureaucracy to have a big impact like it needs to have on the immediat lives of black people and people of color in general today. So there's a huge transition that the Double A CP is undergoing right now. And um, I don't know that they have found their way, but they seem to be rather aware that they do need to find their way again. Um, because it's an organization that depends largely on membership dues, and if people think you're relevant or don't even realize you're still around, they're not going to join and give you membership dues. And it's going to make it harder to actually get anything done. Do I need to say it? Please do Josh Clark streamline get rid of that red tape Josh Clark instead of like that Nixon like like peace sign for victory thing, I'm gonna somehow replace my fingers with all thumbs. This is gonna be like rule of thumbs every which way. I love it. Uh. In tw eleven, uh in Double A CP really kind of formalize their march into the twenty one century. Uh. I guess about eleven years too late. Uh, not too late, but calendar wise. And they said that their focus were what they call the six game changers, which right now are economics, sustainability, education, health, public safety and criminal justice, voting rights and political representation, and youth and young adult engagement. And they're still at it these days. You can see them protesting, litigating, lobbying. It might be over Confederate statues in public squares. It might be in the form of doing a sit in in the office of former Attorney General Jeff Sessions. UM, it might be you know, reaching out to Black Lives Matter and and people who were part of that organization to see how they can work together. Uh, They're they're trying, They're doing their best. I think now it's about a half a million members, about twenty nine million dollars as an organization in what did you say, it's more than two thousand branches. Yeah, yeah, which is that's a big lumbering organization, you know it is. Um. One of the other problems I saw that they were running into is that, like I said, they were kind of victims of their own success. When you're agitating for legislation, when the legislation gets past, what do you do next? And one of the things that they're the double A CP is credited for is paving the way for African American office holders. And I was reading um something from Wan Williams, who I guess is conservative now he defected from MPR over to Fox years and years ago, but he was saying that, Um, the irony of the election of Obama and um other black office holders is that it makes the N double A CP seem less relevant because then people say, Okay, well, you know, the N double A CP got these these guys into power, and now we we can rely on them to make the changes that the double A c P has been trying to make. And so it's kind of like, yeah, there's there there, They're they've achieved the changes that they've wanted to, but now they have to figure out, Okay, what what's left? What what what else needs to be UM focused on? And how do we change that following the course that we've plotted in the organization that we've we've structured for ourselves. So thing's gonna be really interesting to see what the double A CP does over the next like ten or twenty years. I think the six Game Changers is uh pretty good foundation. I agree, So hazzah to the Double A c P. We're glad that we live in a world that they're around, although we're sad that we live in a world where they're needed. You know, Wow, boy, do I need to say it? I just grew an extra thumb. Think. Okay, Well, since chucked his laugh like that, I think everybody's time for listener mail. This is from a six year old and if you want to get the listener mail, just be six mm hmm. That's my advice. Yeah. Uh, hi, Josh and Chuck. My name is Christopher. I'm six years old and from Toronto, Ontario, Canada. My mommy introduced me to your show recently because I am very interested in learning about everything and I love your podcast. Um, this kid is like basically my daughter's age, by the way, who could not care less about what I do. Well, that's that's actually not true, but she certainly doesn't listen. I had a movie question on the car the O day. She said, is that Josh? She didn't. It's awesome. I can't remember who I was interviewing, but did she say that every time? No, she wondered if it was you. Was it Mark Ruffalo because people say it sound like Mark Ruffalo. No, but he tweeted about us once didn't he no Navajo co talkers. Okay, I need to get him on the show. Yeah you do. I really liked the episode in Oregami. It's one of my favorites. I also really like the one on Monopoly, and also the one about peanut Butter. I think the more I listen, the more favorites I'll have. Have you done an episode on Harry Potter? If you have it, maybe you should. I'm reading through the books now with my mommy. It's adorable. I'm hoping that you might read my letter on listener mail and I'll get to hear it. If you do, can you tell me which episode? But if not, that's okay. I just want to let you know that I think you guys are really interesting and smart. Love love Christopher mckelcher in. And then get this. My mom had to type this for me, but I told her what to right. Very nice dictated by Christopher. That's pretty great. Thanks a lot, Christopher. We appreciate you. Um we have not done a Harry Potter episode, and maybe we will some day, and if we do, it will be because you asked for how about that? Great? And Chuck, we just got to introduce a six year old to the history of the N double a CP I love it. Yeah. So if you want to be like Christopher and get in touch with us and tell us that you're six, you better be six if you say that. Um. You can hit us up via email at stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H

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