The Louisiana Purchase: Not a Purchase

Published Jan 17, 2023, 10:00 AM

Turns out the Louisiana Purchase was not so much a purchase, but the right to (steal) purchase it from indigenous peoples. But it did transform the United States as we know it. Listen and learn!

Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry is on standby on our phone ready for any issue to arise. We're supposed to text her. And of course that makes this stuff you should know, the too much information addition, that's right. And you didn't even say a dish, A dish. I know, I'm growing up. Look at me. So how are you doing good? How are you good as well? Good? So, Chuck, I'm really excited about this one for a number of reasons. One, we get to take a really standard, universally understood um part of American history and smash it to bits and explain how it really happened and what it really was and what really went on. I love history stuff like that, don't you? I do? Uh? And this is a good one because it is. Uh. If you're like someone who enjoys watching Jeopardy or playing in any sort of trivia nights or trivia games, trivial pursuit stuff usually no trivial pursuit Yeah, available everywhere. Uh, this is just get info. I feel like these kind of questions. It's the Louisiana Purchase is just such sort of a softball kind of thing for trivia games. And I don't mean that it's easy. I just mean there's just so much in there, and it's not like people go like, well, how am I supposed to know about the Louisiana Purchase. Like it reshaped America in ways or the United States rather in ways that were just the tendrils just kept going and kept going. Yeah, you can make a really good case that it helps shape the world, because you know, it was the thing that jumps started the United States into UM, I guess the the initiation of it as a up and coming world power, because yeah, we doubled our sur fas area and size the United States did. UM and I saw like and chuck to the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and that's where the that's where the list ended. They basically said, those three things are the most important parts of early American history that helped make the country. UM. And there's a lot of like really interesting stuff to it. But there's also like a lot of the history that just isn't talked about, doesn't get focused on enough, And like, what's one of the really good things about like living in the twenty centuries, Like we're really starting to examine that stuff more and we're taking these really kind of um, you know, primary and basic and kind of watered down versions of historical events and like really kind of bringing them to life for better for worse. Yeah, I mean it's not every day that a new, burgeoning nation can get the opportunity to acquire about eight hundred and fifty thousand square miles uh, not acres square miles uh and acquire are as we'll see more like the right to acquire more like the right to kind of take Yeah, which is what Oh, I know what you mean. I've done the research. I know where you're going with that. Well, should we go back then to how the name Luisiana Louisiana. It sounds Italian when I say it, Yeah, I don't think that's how it said. It's really French though, right, yeah, Louisian. Yeah. Exactly what was going on was there were people in France. There are a lot of people are from France rather uh, and in fact they were bold enough to call it new France. Uh. This was King Louis the what would that be? Yes? Read, I'm brushing up on my Roman numerals, and King Louis said, all right, Mr French explorer, I'm gonna let my friend Josh over here to my right to pronounce your name. Let me try Rene Robert Valier, Sir de la Salle. Quite a name. But Louis said, hey, dude, um, you've got authority to explore all the the western part of this area I called New France. You got a monopoly on trade there on Buffalo hides. Go knock yourself out. Licel did just that in two floated down the Mighty Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico and said, you know what, I'm just gonna say, all of this area it belongs to France, and I'm gonna name it after h the gentleman who handed over my charter. I guess uh. And it was with an E at the time, Louisian, Louis Louisian. I don't know why the Italian keeps bobbing up the land of Louis. It was basically they added in l A at the beginning and then switched out the A for an E, or you know, it would later become Louisiana. I wonder if that's Louisiane iced tea bags are a nod to is it spelled with ane? Yeah, a n any I think and they take the eye out. It's all messed up. I read somewhere chuck that um that Cavellier when he got to the um delta of the Mississippi River where it hit the Gulf of Mexico, he like located the indigenous people that lived around there and read a proclamation to them. It's basically he said, hey, um, can you stand still while I read this? And he proclaimed, like you said that whole area belonging to King Louis and they're just sitting there like, what are you talking about? Were so? But this was how um, this part of the world, this part of North America was settled. It was by the French and um they figured that. And I mean this was an enormous swath of of territory from Canada down to the Gulf of Mexico, from the west of the Mississippi River all the way to anyone knows how. Yeah, you just go as far as you want. No one had any idea what was over that way except for until you ran into the Spanish and California. I'm not even sure they were there yet. So um that that's how the English, um, the Dutch who were up in New York, the French, the Spanish, how all of these world powers that were running around North America viewed the whole thing. And that was frances And so France said, all right, awesome, let's exploit this. We're gonna make just a staggering amount of money, and I'm going to let this one particular person. Uh. In seventeen twelve, Antoine crazat Um have the the charter to basically develop this territory into New France. Like we called it kind of prematurely. Yeah, that they he didn't get a lot of support from France. Uh, they kind of handed this over to him, and like you said, it was such a big area, like it was just too unwieldy basically to control and maintain and try to manage. And he lost a ton of money. I think it only took it took less than five years when he went back to the king and said, you know what, I appreciate the charter, but with all due respect, I would like to be released from it. And you know that was fine. He was released from the charter, but the French expeditions kind of continued there for a while, but it was sort of um, you know, they were outnumbered. They were uh. The settlements were sparse, mostly still indigenous Americans populating the area until seventeen sixty two when the Seven Years War happened and France said, you know what, this territory is now going to belong to Spain. But Spain didn't really know what to do with it either, right, No, they had I think even less of a presence in UM in this I guess Louisiana territory than the French did. I saw that even when Spain kind of ruled this area as far as the European powers were concerned for thirty seven years, there were more French officials calling the shots there then there were Spanish officials, and um, I think they were the greatest minority of all. The greatest majority were the indigenous tribes in the area. But then as far as Europeans went, you had Um English, you had a lot of French people, you had UM, a lot of people who had come down from Um Canada, the Acadians who went on to become the Cajuns. They were living in the area at the time. Um, and it was just kind of uh. Spain was just they just had the thing, they owned it, they weren't doing much with it. Yeah, so they tried here and there too, not you know, uh to not excellent results. There was a colonial governor named Don Antonio del uh Ulloa. I guess will that be right? I think? And he said, all right, you know, we own this place technically, guys, so I'd like to try to enforce some of our rules if you don't mind about trade. And the French leaders there said, yes, we very much do mind because you're not calling the shots around here, despite the fact that you quote unquote owned this land. So they revolted drove him out of the colony. In seventeen uh, Spain was able to quash that rebellion get a new governor in there. I guess. I guess they were hoping with a little more backbone, uh, and started saying like, hey, you know, fellow Spaniards, why don't you go and settle that land, like we got all this great land. Please go there and farm and try and you know, sort of steak our claim. Yeah, it took also one of the reasons that they they took so long to encourage people to go do that and just kind of just approached the whole thing with like it was just kind of there was because to the Spanish, the Louisiana Territory was a buffer between the English and then later on the Americans to the east and their territory Texas, Mexico, California, all that to the west. Um, and it was a really just a nice little kind of no man's land that Spain owned so that they could be like, you need to get out, But they were more interested in it for the this the kind of distance put between the English and then the Americans and the Spanish colonies. Yeah, so it served a purpose to them, even if they weren't as intent on you know, settling it, I guess right. And then so as far as the Americans were concerned, when when America became a country, by the time eighteen hundred rolled around, and think that was the year that Jefferson was elected, and Jefferson kind of approached the whole thing with We're totally cool Spain owns, uh, the Louisiana Territory. We're okay with that right now, Spain's letting us use the Mississippi. It's letting us use the Port of New Orleans. It's letting us use the warehouses in the Port of New Orleans. These were really big deals because that was how you got stuff out to Europe. In North America was basically out of the Port of New Orleans. UM for a lot of stuff, right, especially the Midwestern stuff. UM. And as long as things were like that, it was all good. But Jefferson was very smart and he was like, there's a really good chance that things are not going to remain the same for very long. And he was right, Boy, that sounds like a great cliffhanger, I think, so all right, well, let's take a break. We'll be right back. Jefferson is feeling his oats. He thinks he can tell the future. And as Josh said, he was kind of right, and will explore that right after this, Chuck, that was a heck of a lead up. I didn't think I was gonna quit talking for a second. Just the whole podcast spills out of your mouth from that point on, all right, and you're just sitting there like I thought we were taking over him. Uh so this is like the end of the eighteenth century. Uh, Spain is not doing so hot. Financially because of just kind of constant warring in Europe for you know, many hundreds of years. Oh dude, it was really bad that century. It was a bad century for the European powers. Yeah. So, I mean it's just a money drain on everyone. So Spain is hurting financially, and in just before the turn of the century, in sev Napoleon uh seizes control in France and he says, you know, he's you know what Napoleon wanted to do. He wanted to rule the world the Andi Christ well exactly. So part of that, you know, obviously would include the America's and that's not just you know, Louis Louisiana territory, but like all of the America's Central America down to South America. And so uh he tried to do so. In eighteen hundred, they uh signed a secret treaty with Spain called the Third Treaty of San Il Defonso. Got it again, buddy, you're on a rule. And the Louisiana territory, which included New Orleans of course, came back to France and said, here you go, Spain, um will help you out with your money problems. And I understand, the nephew of the Queen of Spain wants some area that to call his own, so you can have a trucial Etruria in Italy which is now I think Tuscany, Lazio and Umbria. They're in central Italy. And they said great, thank you so much. Yeah. So Spain says like a black check dealer, as like I'm out of the Louisiana territory, and Frances like, yes, we've got it back. And from what I understand, Napoleon UM viewed this largely as a shipping, a storage and shipping and exporting center. New Orleans was like the crown jewel of Louisiana territory, but he viewed it more as a um and assist to the real gem in the French Empire, which was Saint Domain, which is now called Haiti, which was one of the most profitable plots of earth on Earth at the time. I read Chuck that Saint doming Um, and I've looked at up. I'm pretty surelet's tell you say it, Um, you're right before the before the revolt, and I believe eighteen hundred um. They were just the taxes alone that were paid by the goods that were produced there is equal to twelve billion dollars in US dollars today. Yeah, and that was just the taxes that were being paid, let alone all the productivity. So Napoleon viewed the Louisiana into territory is like the place that all that stuff could come to and then spread out to the rest of the world. Um. That was how we viewed it. Um. The other thing that about the French having it is that Jefferson was like, man, this is not good because we've got really good stuff going on with the Spanish letting us use the Mississippi River and the Port of New Orleans, and I don't think the French are going to do that. And he turned out to be right, yeah, because they, like you said, they had a sweet deal going. Uh. The one thing we didn't mention was that part of the agreement with Spain because you know, they still wanted that offer uh to be intact. So they you know, said, France can have it back, but like, you can't give it away or sell it to anybody else. Okay, Napoleon, do you will you shake on that? And he said sure, My word is my word is my bond. So that was a big important part of it. Uh. Like you said, Jefferson is getting a little bit nervous because New Orleans was very important to us as well. At the time, tensions are mounting. Uh. In eight ten o two, Spain revokes those rights that they had previously given us traders uh in New Orleans. And they were like, wait a minute. You said you could keep our stuff here and use these warehouses. They said, not so much anymore. And Jefferson said, Napoleon he's behind all this. I know, he is that little stubby uh runt. He's trying to keep this clean. It's really hard when I'm doing Jefferson, because you know that guy, yeh, potty mouth. So he said, this is all on Napoleon. I bet and I bet you anything that they're gonna shut everything down soon. And so you know, this got people, um pretty upset. In the early United States, there were people that said, no, let's let's take it back by force. There was a senator in Pennsylvania named James Ross who was very big on that and lobby for Jefferson to send actual, an actual army down there of fifty men too, to take this land. Because there was a big deal. You know, oh, it's a huge deal. Um. Other the Federalist Party said no, you know, screw that, Let's just succeed and let's form our own nation, which includes New Orleans. And so things were getting really up to sort of like a fever pitch about whether or not the United States was gonna have access to this territory for shipping. Right. Um, before we continue, Chuck, I want to show you a little magic trick. You ready, m I'm going to I'm going to delete a thousand email drafts right now. What you call Napoleon a runt? And he actually was average size. He was, he was it's a big it's a big deal, and it was. It all came down to a difference between the French foot and the English foot. There's a mistranslation, and so he was actually like five eleven. That's right. I'm not trying to correct you. I'm just trying to those from those emails. I knew that. But what my point is, Jefferson, I've seen his diaries. He very much called him a runt. Whether or not he was average sized or not, did he really wow? Well, Also, Jefferson was like I think nine and a half feet tall, so he would have considered someone five eleven a run anyone under seven feets all, it was a pretty small person. To Jefferson, Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, um, because of the Haitian Revolution, uh, like Hatie became the first black run country, um outside of Africa in the world because there was a slave revolt, and it was I mean, that's an enormous deal. Even in retrospective at the time it was it was like earth shattering for for Europe because you know, France was making so much money off of this, but you know it was having a trickling outward effect on all the other countries as well, who were really benefiting from this incredibly productive forced slave labor um. And so when that stopped, it had a really huge effect on the economy. And to Napoleon it was like, well, then what's the point of Louisiana territory anymore? If it was just a supporting character for Saint doming And now Saint Domag is now Haiti and we don't have any interest in it anymore. Um, like, there's no point in owning the Louisiana territory. And he started stroking his chin and he thought, first he thought I should grow a soul patch. And then after that he said, what is a soul patch? And then the third thing he thought at that moment was I'm gonna sell New France the Louisiana territory to the Americans. Yeah. I mean the other reason too, is like he was mad with power, but he also had a lot of irons in the fire, and Louisiana was a long ways away, so he was like, you know, and also to take on like more warring now way over there. It's like I'm spread a little bit thin, even though I am. Uh, everyone knows an average height, right, And everyone nodded and said yes, yes, yes, And he's like, in history will view me that way, right, it's just an average height person, Yes, sir, absolutely sir. And he said okay, he said, so selling it won't make me look short, and they nope, not at all. He said, okay, well we'll proceed. Then I saw he also thought, chuck that it would be really great to basically help a fledgling nation become a really big nation freshly balance out and temper well more more, to be an enemy of his enemy, which was and to kind of give the Brits or run for their money. So he did all these things in one master stroke, which was selling the Louisiana territory. The boy looking. I mean, things were just wild back then, with uh world shaping stuff. I would argue that still goes on today, not like that. No really, I mean, do you do you think NATO's fighting a proxy war with Russia through Ukraine right now? So I would say, so, yeah, well, yeah, I mean, these things happen. I'm just saying it seemed like back then it was happening everywhere, all at once. No, yeah, I still I still think that happens today. I don't know that not everywhere all at once. Like Canada is not at war with the US to try and take territory. And Canada's greatest trick is convincing the world that they're laid back? Are they? Are they laying in? Wait? Oh boy, that's all we need? Yeah? A million guns chuck, That's all I have to say. All right, So this is um let's call it eighteen oh you, because that was the year that it was. And Jefferson and you know, Jeffy, it takes a long time to get word about stuff. As I realized when I was creating this UM Jefferson doesn't know, you know that Napoleon's has this plan to sell us territory back, or not back to us, but to us. So he orders our minister to France, Robert Livingston, to go to France to their foreign minister and say his last name is tally Ran, great name, and say, hey, listen, we'd like to put a stop to the acquisition of the territory from Spain unless it's already finalized. And in the back of the set he was like, if it is finalized, you know, maybe go over uh and see if you can buy New Orleans. See if they'll put New Orleans up for sale. Okay, I'll go over there. And he took uh he took a future president with him, right or was he former president? Future? I think we only had Yeah, I always get the order mixed up there in the early days. I think Jefferson was the third. I really hope Jefferson was the third, but yeah, James Monroe went along to help Livingston too, and UM they they started negotiating. UM. They were authorized to spend up to ten million dollars and they started negotiating with UM. A guy named Barbe Marbois Francois Barbe Marbois, and he was a politician. I don't think he was the foreign minister, because I think tally Rand was the foreign minister, right, tally Rand was the foreign minister. Correct, Okay, So so Barbe Marbois was a politician who was close to Napoleon, who was instructed to basically broker the steal. And then tally Rand came along and and said I'm going to help out too, And so as they started to talk and negotiate, I think within the first couple of days maybe Barbee Marbois and tally Rand said henceforth known as the French contingent um. They said, hey, how about this um have you? Would you guys be interested in purchasing the whole Louisiana? Terry Tory and Monroe and Livi said like, oh my god, oh my god. Yeah cool, and they're like, I don't know. I think Monroe like examined his fingernails and said, well, we'll think about it. We might take it off of her. Now, how much do you want? And the Prince said twenty two million bucks, And he leaned over and said, well, Jefferson wanted chin million for new Orleans twenty two mill for all of it's not a bad deal. No, and uh and Monroe said six nay on the eel day. Wait, what would that be? Nix the deal, which actually is the opposite of what he would have said. But anyway, well he said, let's try and talk him down. Yeah. I think they countered with eight million. Right, they settled on fifteen, just five million more than he was authorized to pay for New Orleans alone. Right, you get another you know, eight hundred five thousand square miles. Right, that is a bargain. And that's how this whole thing's gone down in history as far as as most people look at that the French made a terrible real estate deal and the Americans made out like bandits. Because I think National Geographics said it was equivalent fifteen million dollars at the time, was equivalent to three two million dollars. I did the methods up to three four now, but at the time that came to about nine cents an acre, which is I mean in today's money, that's nine cents an acre. Um. So it's an incredible deal. Um. So of course they went for it. But like you said that, the mail was really slow at the time, so they couldn't wait to get authorization from Jefferson. They had to just decide on their own that this was too spectacular of a deal to walk away from and they were going to spend fifty more than they were authorized to to buy the Louisiana territory. And they did. And it took two months for Jefferson the President, to find out that this this deal had gone down two months so yeah, there wouldn't time to go back. Didn't spend another two months getting word back to Napoleon's party, the French contingent excuse me right, and apparently the whole um. They were putting pressure on the Americans by saying like, well, Napoleon's reconsidering this deal. The Americans were like, okay, all right, classic move. Yeah, he's not really sure now the offer might be off the table. So they announced the deal fourth of July eighteen o three. Um. Most people in the United States were obviously super psyched um, but not everyone. It seems that people in New England were, uh, they had a problem with it. They were like, hey, listen, we are kind of broke anyway, and we've already got enough land, Like who wants eight hundred and fifty thousand square miles to have to take care of when we're a fledgling nation and what we need now is to keep our coffers full. And Massachusetts Congressman Joseph Quincy said, you know, we should succeed because of this. There was a lot of threats to succeed. Thank goodness, that doesn't happen anymore, right, right, but they you know that was that didn't happen obviously. Um, there was another issue, which which was that Jefferson was a real strict constitutionalist and did not believe in a president just sort of exceeding their power. And he was like, you know what, I don't even know if what we did was strictly legal. This guy helped, Yeah, he was like, can you have someone check that? But I don't. I don't think we're allowed to even do this, are we? I mean he was right, No, there's no if you if you limit the presidential powers to a strict reading of the Constitution, No, nowhere in there it doesn't say the president is allowed to acquire land for the nation, right, I mean they can go by a condo or something if they want to privately. Sure, you know, the condo White House, that's what they call that White House West, nice little place on the Pacific Ocean, right. But but he was he was worried about this, so he said like, hey, maybe we should pass the constitutional amendment about this. Yeah, And they and you know, everyone was kind of debating. They're like, you know what, I don't think we need to add a constitutional amendment. I think it's probably okay. Uh, you know, all the all the like the early brilliant minds and early US government. We're trying to figure this out, kind of thinking that, hey, we got to move through with the purchase and we'll kind of figure it out later. If we need to add an amendment, maybe we can do that retroactively. Uh. And then his Treasury Secretary, Albert H. Gallatin said, you know what, Um, this should be allowed under your authority to make treaties. That's how I read it, at least, And Jefferson said that sounds good. Let's debate it. They debated it in eighteen oh three in October, and the Senate voted twenty four to seven that it was all good. Yeah, um, which makes sense. I think it was upheld later on in three by the Supreme Court by no less than Jefferson's political rival John Marshall. Justice John Marshall Um said, yeah, actually, this is totally correct. The presidents allowed to make treaties under the Constitution, and you can acquire land through treaties ipso facto, the president can acquire land. And ever since then that's just been you know, part of America, although it'll probably be reversed in the next couple of years. How about a break, Yes, all right, let's take a break and we'll talk about the fact that this really wasn't a purchase outright, Okay, Chuck so Um. Up to now, we've basically just been laying down the general, the generally understood Louisiana purchase, maybe with a few more details, and most people know more than I knew before we started researching this, I should say, But at this point we reached like the actual geopolitical, um like layer of this, this historical event of how the people at the time understood what was going on. Because in retrospect, like I said, everybody looks at the Louisiana purchase like the greatest real estate deal of all time. If you look up greatest deal in history, the Louisiana purchases cited as the greatest deal ever in almost every return on whatever search engine use. Right, So at the time they didn't really consider it that it wasn't like a purchase of land. Instead, it was a transfer of what the French had acquired through the doctrine of discovery, which is essentially this kind of again a geopolitical layer of the legal fiction that's laid over actual land that basically says, um, if you go to an area and you find people there but they're not Christians, you can claim that land as yourself and deal with the people who are indigenous as you see fit without interference from the other European powers. Right, So that's what they purchase. Um, you could call it a preemption or a territorial abstraction, but yeah, it basically meant your we almost bought the right to steal that land from Native Americans without uh yeah, like without Spain or France laying any claim to it. I would agree with what you just said, fully, but I would remove almost from it. Fully I guess the word I mean, yeah, it's crazy. And that whole doctrine, the discovery thing, by the way, came from people bull Papal decree from coincidentally, where the Pope said essentially that like, if you find a place that's considered Tera Nolus, which is unpopulated, essentially unpopulated by Christians, that's your that's your land. So it was basically legal cover for the genocide that followed from that point on. Yeah, and it's at this point that I'm gonna recommend again. I know mentioned it before, but the great documentary series from one called Exterminate All the Brutes. Uh, you, of all people would love it. Uh, it's really good, you would love it. Um. Raoul Pecks series Explorers Basically that was on HBO. I think just sort of the history of um colonialism, but but more than that, um the way he tells it through a modern lens and um just sort of from the dawn of time once people started um being mean to each other. Basically really really tough, heavy documentary series. So yeah, it sounds like my Friday night for sure, well several Friday nights, but yeah, sure if you watch that all on one Friday night and then very dark Saturday of so, um, Okay, I'll check it out. What's it call again the Brutes? Okay, I'll check it out because I happen to have HBO Max. Oh well too, maybe it's on there for my money, one of the best streaming services. So um, the just to kind of button this whole thing up. Basically, what happened under the doctrines of discovery and the preemption that America bought from France said that you can go do whatever you want with this land. You can acquire it however you want to. We're not going to do like you don't actually get any land from us. You get us saying this is yours now and the rest of Europe. We have to leave these guys alone while they do whatever they want. This is now part of their sovereign territory, from one Christian nation to another. Basically exactly that's right. So Um, the thing is is that I guess the Americans that were running the show at the time, led by Jefferson, we're well aware like this is this is there's plenty of people out there, and probably even more than we realize. I'm sure there's indigenous groups that we've not even encountered yet. He sent Lewis and Clark out in eighteen o four, like the the year after the purchase was announced. Um, but they had to get that land somehow, and this this preemption gave them the right to either to do however they pleased treaty paying people off, just straight up extermination however America wanted to do it. From that point on, that was Europe was just going to sit back and let it happen. Yeah, And it was kind of a mix of all those things. Um, the US did pay you know, uh, I mean it's a lot of money, but it's still not a lot of money, you know, uh, about eight point five billion dollars in modern dollars two Native Americans for the land within the Louisiana territory. But as we'll see, that happened in a lot of different ways, and there were some modern sort of repartitions that happened as a result here and there. Um, there was a land deal and these are just some examples. Um, there was you know, there was always sort of the threat of violence hanging over every deal that was made, so you have to factor that in. Um, there was a land deal with a native nation. This was after you know, we made the deal with France and the sac and Fox Nation sent uh some people to St. Louis sent a delegation there to say, hey, you know, uh, we murdered three squatters on our land. I would really like you to not retaliate, retaliate on us, because that would start a big mess. And so William Henry Harrison, who was the governor um of the Indiana Tory territory and now Louisiana, which was this is a lot of area that William Henry Harrison was covering, uh signed you know, put a lot of heat on them, and they signed away three point six million acres of land along the Mississippi, including about one point six million that was part of the Louisiana purchased here Tory for three thousand three dollars in goods. And if that if that sounds like a paltry amount, you're right. But even at the time it was like the Salk and the Fox would have considered it paltry because I read that they made something like sixty thousand dollars a season just from selling furs alone. So this was an insulting amount of money. Supposedly, William Henry Harrison was like particularly adept at creating these treaties, and this was the first one, and uh, they ended up basically negotiating with this this contingency of this contingent of um Sac and Fox leaders, but also not people who were recognized in those tribes as having the authority to sign away their land. But they signed something. William Henry Harrison said, good enough, this is legal. We now own that that land. Please get out. And this all this is one of those that um was brought up. Later in three there was a commission, federal commission that look back on this land deal and said, you know what it was worth about sixty cents an acre at the time. We purchased it for a half cent an acre. So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna pay you back now here in the early nineteen seventies that fifty nine and a half cents. Uh, here's two million dollars. And they said, we'll wait a minute, though, this is this is nineteen seventy three. You're not including inflation or interest like you're you're paying us for what you owed us in eighteen o four using nineteen seventy three money. And excuse me, what, here's your check. Just go about your go about your day. And that's exactly what happened. And that was the first deal, the first treaty that was that was formed after the Louisiana purchase that affected land from Louisiana territory, right, and it just kind of went on from there. Some some tribes were giving money, some tribes were forced out for no money whatsoever. I think the black Feet famously lost twelve million acres and were given no money at all. Um And what's They weren't exactly like the indigenous tribes, weren't exactly treated like royalty by the French or the Spanish, but they weren't forced off of their land on mass um like they were once America owned the Louisiana territory, like it was a brand new a brand new show that they had not been prepared for. They they lived and worked and you know, follow their traditional ways among the French and the Spanish, who you know, made concessions to them and recognized a lot of their their um, their tribal territory and their tribal customs um. But they were they still considered the land belonging to France or belonging to Spain. But they weren't moved off. And then America came along and we're like, get out we've got a lot of people back east, and we are spreading westward. And essentially what they did was just continue to push and push and push the Native Americans all the way into the Pacific. Basically. Yeah, and you know, one of the things they would do is like they would clear out one tribe and the you know we call it the West, it was the Louisiana territory to make room to move like an East Coast tribe or a Southeastern tribe or a Northeastern tribe. Then they would move them into that land and say here, you can have this, but not for long because we're also going to remove you. And it was just like you said, it was just sort of shuffling these tribes one at a time further and further west, which you know obviously culminated in the Trail of tears Um, which we had a I think that was a two parter, right, Yeah, that was one of one of the best Um two parters we've done. I think it rivaled Evil Kinneval. Even Mark Ruffalo tweeted out about that episode. I forgot Hulk himself. That's right, he did Hulk himself, Polk himself. So it was it was just sort of the beginning of uh, beginning of a new day for Indigenous Americans, h no more, you know, basically sort of living with Europeans and kind of sharing the land. It was like, now this is ours, and and we're removing you, you know, permanently. Yeah, And I mean, just like that papal decree of the Doctrine of Discovery, America kind of formulated its own stuff, like the manifest Destiny, which essentially said, like we were we were given this land to take it over from coast to coast. This is America was meant to do this, to become this continental nation and become a superpower. And that was used as a reason like just we were supposed to do it. We were, we were destined to do this, so let's just keep doing it. And another one that was used is that the Native Americans weren't weren't using the land, they weren't putting it to use, So we're going to put it to more productive use and make money off of it, which if so facto, means we should have it. So these were kind of like the rationals for pushing further and further west, and we did it with such gusto Chalk that the Louisiana purchase was signed in eighteen oh three. Fifty years later, the Gadsden Purchase purchased southern Arizona in southwest New Mexico from Mexico. I believe, and at that moment, fifty years after Louisiana purchased double the size the contiguous forty eight states as they are today was set. Fifty years is all it took for us to take over the entire North American continent aside from Canada and Mexico. Wow, that puts it into perspective. We were vigorous, I should say so. Like you mentioned earlier, Lewis and Clark were then sent out because we didn't really know even what we had as far like the borders were very hazy. Uh. They were hazy when Spain had it. They were hazy when France had it. They knew the northern and southern borders because you had the Gulf of Mexico and you had the you know, Canada and the northern territories. But as far as west goes, they're like, I don't know. And everyone would look at each other, they would look at mat makers and they would all shrug and go I don't know so. Uh. In fact, in the purchase it said, uh, they refer to the land the colony or province of Louisiana, with the same extent it now has in the hands of Spain and then it had when France possessed it. In France and Spain both shrugged. So they sent Lewis and Clark out, and Jefferson said, Hey, when it comes to that western border, just go nuts. Um. You don't don't feel like you got to really be too restrictive on where that on where this Louisiana territory ends. And so they said, how about the Rocky Mountains and they said, great, that's they sound lovely perfect. Right. In America's tactic strategy, national strategy, you could say, it was just to keep pushing westward, right, so when you reached America's border, just keep going. And we would show up in mass and these British, like the British apparently controlled Oregon Territory, which I didn't realize, but it explains Washington and British Columbia's names. Um, and we would just show up along the Oregon Trail, and enough of us would show up that the Brits would finally be like, fine, forget it here, just take this. We want British Columbia. You take Washington and Oregon. And we did that in Texas. And that's how we just kept acquiring more and more land, just just by virtue of showing up in numbers and being willing to shed blood, pay money, um, and do you know all sorts of stuff to acquire that land. That's right, yeah, And I mean there's it's not like this is all just a nothing but a negative story. I mean, depending on your perspective. Yeah, it's pretty negative in a lot of ways. But also, I mean it's not like America is just like the worst country that ever existed. Like America has done a lot of really great stuff for the world, spread democracy, spread peace, done a lot of shady stuff too. I think everybody who has ever listening to the podcast knows that I am aware of that. But it's also done a lot of really cool stuff for the world. So in one sense, the Louisiana purchase helped kickstart that country that would go on to do some really cool, important things. Unfortunately, on the other hand, it gave us the Midwest. Oh Man, I had a feeling that was building towards a joke, a punchline. I meant everything, get Bay off. Okay, so you got anything else about the Louisiana purchase. No, I think I'm well armed for Jeopardy though. Okay I am too. Let's get it on. As Alex Trebek used to say, uh, if you want to know more about the Louisiana purchase, you can search that on um well on your favorite search bar. But also, I'm sure How Stuff Works has some good stuff on it, so why not start there? And since I said how Stuff Works and it's two thousand and ten again, it's time for listener mail. I'm gonna call this support for you. Okay, thank you for the whole songs. Sarah Tobacco when I in retrospect was a little unfair When I was like, what you never knew? Stand? Sarah meant no, Sarah's I didn't take it that way at all. But I know how you feel right now because I just cueate our How Vampires Works Episode Worked episode from back then. Yes, and you said you didn't like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, And I was like, what, all right, here we go. I just listened to the life of played episode guys, it felt like I had to back up Josh in regards to do Sarah and Sarah. I'm an architect and endured many grueling years of architectural school, during which we primarily prepare graphic and architecture role presentations in lieu of exams and paper so so you can imagine the aesthetic mind of a young architect can get obsessed with selecting the perfect font to align with the architectural concept they're about to present. I wasted many hours selecting the perfect font, and as did most other students in my class. I mean now my thirties and have been practicing for over twelve years, and made no connection to the twelve years. Would you hire twenty four year old architect? Mm hmmm. I don't know if if he was okay, coacious and went he or she, you know, started started attending Harvard at fifteen. May look at me. I'm being agents. Uh now mid thirties, have been practicing for twelve years. Made no connection to the meaning of Sarah until two or three years ago. Like Josh, I was well aware of the idea of songs, but never put the two and two together. You could take everything, Josh stated word for word and apply it to me. You guys make me laugh a lot, but this is one of the better chuckles I've had while listening to Josh go on about San Saraf, his San Sarah revelation and the likeness to my own Unlike Josh, though I never admitted it, allowed uh, and I felt it was about time to Josh. Thanks for sharing and letting me know that I'm not alone. Kind regards from Tim. Tim, thank you for that support. That is very nice of you, and I feel like I'm I'm the midwife of helping you birth your own um admission, it just got weird for sure, as Bob new Heart would put in, yeah, um. Thanks again, Tim, and if you want to be like Tim, you can send an email to stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Stuff You Should Know

If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD,  
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