Mary Robinette Kowal’s work has inspired several episodes of the podcast. She has just written a pair of books that are called the Lady Astronaut duology, and Tracy got the chance to speak with Mary about her work and its historical settings.  

 Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

Mary Robinette Kowal’s work has inspired several episodes of the podcast. She has just written a pair of books that are called the Lady Astronaut duology, and Tracy got the chance to speak with Mary about her work and its historical settings.   Learn more about your ad-choices at <a href="https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com">https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com</a>

Join Holly and Tracy as they bring you the greatest and strangest Stuff You Missed In History Class in this podcast by iHeartRadio.

Stuff You Missed in History Class

Interview: Mary Robinette Kowal on the 'Lady Astronaut' Duology

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/0bbca851-9eaf-4016-bad9-ae28004a69a1/transcript

This episode from 2017 covers several moments in history when the world came perilously close to a full-scale nuclear war, due to false alarms or miscommunication.

This episode from 2017 covers several moments in history when the world came perilously close to a full-scale nuclear war, due to false alarms or miscommunication.

SYMHC Classics: Nuclear Close Calls

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/a39e5b0d-08ee-459f-bb0f-b4d00111b52e/transcript

Holly and Tracy unpack the accusation that Robert Moses purposely built overpass bridges too low for busses to drive under them as a way to keep Black New Yorkers away from Jones Beach.

Holly and Tracy unpack the accusation that Robert Moses purposely built overpass bridges too low for busses to drive under them as a way to keep Black New Yorkers away from Jones Beach.

Behind the Scenes Minis: Busses and Overpasses

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/940c4820-0c96-49e8-af91-b4cd0032bce8/transcript

The second part of our two-parter on Robert Moses looks at the vast amount of power he amassed in New York’s government, and the many controversies that surrounded the second half of his career.

Research:
“15% OF THE FAIR STILL UNFINISHED; 15 Pavilions and 3 Shows in Amusement Area Delayed.” New York Times. April 22, 1964. https://www.nytimes.com/1964/04/22/archives/15-of-the-fair-still-unfinished-15-pavilions-and-3-shows-in.html
Ballon, Hilary, Phd. and Kenneth T. Jackson, eds. “Robert Moses and the Modern City: The Transformation of New York.” W.W. Norton & Co. 2008.
Balme, Bob. “His Pen Blisters, His Voice Stings – Robert Moses, at 71, Churns Ahead.” Buffalo News. December 5, 1959. https://www.newspapers.com/image/868298578/?match=4&terms=Robert%20Moses&search-id=e5e8b520-6c56-44d0-96ef-7303b5705343&search-rank=6
Brewer, Sam Pope. “MOSES SLUM ROLE STIRRED DISPUTE; His 'Dead Duck' Remark on Title I Projects Aroused Urban Renewal Backers.” New York Times. Feb. 28, 1960. https://www.nytimes.com/1960/02/28/archives/moses-slum-role-stirred-dispute-his-dead-duck-remark-on-title-i.html
Britannica Editors. "Robert Moses". Encyclopedia Britannica, 25 Jul. 2026, https://www.britannica.com/biography/Robert-Moses
Caro, Robert A. “The Power Broker.” Knopf. 1974.
Caro, Robert A. “The Power Broker – I: How Robert Moses Transformed New York.” The New Yorker. July 15, 1974. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1974/07/22/the-power-broker-i-the-best-bill-drafter-in-albany?_sp=012e2621-7c64-4868-8288-8d1d8c093dfc.1788137489337
Chronopoulos, T. (2014). “Robert Moses and the Visual Dimension of Physical Disorder: Efforts to Demonstrate Urban Blight in the Age of Slum Clearance.” Journal of Planning History, 13(3), 207-233. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1538513213487149
Crawford, F. C. “New York State Reorganization.” The American Political Science Review, vol. 20, no. 1, 1926, pp. 76–79. JSTOR, https://doi.org/10.2307/1945100
Ellis, Robert P. “Robert Moses.” Ebsco. https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/history/robert-moses#lifes-work
“EX-COSTELLO AIDE BARRED BY MAYOR ON SLUM PROJECTS.” The New York Times. July 3, 1959. https://www.nytimes.com/1959/07/03/archives/excostello-aide-barred-by-mayor-on-slum-projects-pokrass.html
“GOVERNOR BY MERIT.” New York Times. Nov. 7, 1934. https://www.nytimes.com/1934/11/07/archives/governor-by-merit.html
Grutzner, Charles. “MOSES SAYS TITLE I IS A 'DEAD DUCK'; DECRIES CHARGES; 'Ruinous' Attacks Kill All but Union Slum-Clearing Jobs for Future, He Asserts MAYOR STANDING FIRM He Repeats His Opposition to Any Project That Uses Kessler as Architect.” New York Times. July 4, 1959. https://www.nytimes.com/1959/07/04/archives/moses-says-title-i-is-a-dead-duck-decries-charges-ruinous-attacks.html
Gutman, Marta. “Race, Place, and Play: Robert Moses and the WPA Swimming Pools in New York City.” Journal of the Society of Architectural Historians, vol. 67, no. 4, 2008, pp. 532–61. JSTOR, https://doi.org/10.1525/jsah.2008.67.4.532
“History of City–Owned Beaches.” Official Website of the New York City Department of Parks & Recreation. https://www.nycgovparks.org/about/history/beaches/city-owned-beaches
“History of Parks' Swimming Pools.” Official Website of the New York City Department of Parks & Recreation. https://www.nycgovparks.org/about/history/pools
“Jones Beach State Park - 80 Years of Service : 1929 – 2009.” https://jonesbeach.com/index.php?id=165%3A80-years&format=pdf&option=com_content&Itemid=100054
JONES BEACH STATE PARK.” Long Island Exchange. https://web.archive.org/web/20130121130008/http://www.longislandexchange.com/jones-beach.html
Kaufman, Herbert. “Robert Moses: Charismatic Bureaucrat.” Political Science Quarterly, vol. 90, no. 3, 1975, pp. 521–38. JSTOR, https://doi.org/10.2307/2148299
Kaufman, Michael T. “Moses Rips Into ‘Venomous’ Biography.” New York Times. Aug. 27, 1974. https://www.nytimes.com/1974/08/27/archives/moses-rips-into-venomous-biography-vindictive-canards-rejects.html
Lambert, Bruce. “One Man's Dream, Blissful Jones Beach Is Like No Other Place.” New York Times. Sept. 28, 1997. https://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/28/nyregion/one-man-s-dream-blissful-jones-beach-is-like-no-other-place.html
“Moses Must Go!” Met Council on Housing. May 14, 2012. https://www.metcouncilonhousing.org/moses-must-go/
Moses, Robert. “Public Works: A Dangerous Trade.” New York. McGraw-Hill. 1970. https://archive.org/details/publicworksdange00mose/page/n7/mode/2up
Moses, Robert. “Slums and City Planning.” The Atlantic. January 1945. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1945/01/slums-and-city-planning/306544/
Paquette, Carol. “Showcasing the Career of Robert Moses.” New York Times. Oct. 1, 1995. https://www.nytimes.com/1995/10/01/nyregion/showcasing-the-career-of-robert-moses.html
Phillips, Wayne. “Title I and Slum Clearance: A Decade of Controversy; Partnership of City and U. S. Has Built 8,000 Apartments -- Disputes Involve Moses and Aims of Program.” New York Times. June 29, 1959. https://www.nytimes.com/1959/06/29/archives/title-i-and-slum-clearance-a-decade-of-controversy-partnership-of.html
“POKRASS BAN IS ASKED; Senator Bids Housing Aides Act on Costello Associate.” New York Times. July 9, 1959. https://www.nytimes.com/1959/07/09/archives/pokrass-ban-is-asked-senator-bids-housing-aides-act-on-costello.html
Rogers, Elizabeth Barlow. “Robert Caro and Robert Moses Redux.” SiteLINES: A Journal of Place. Vol. 3, No. 1 (Fall 2007), pp. 16-18. Foundation for Landscape Studies. https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2307/24889293
Smith, Red. “Robert Moses, the Empire Builder.” New York Times. Aug. 5, 1981. https://www.nytimes.com/1981/08/05/sports/red-smith-robert-moses-the-empire-builder.html
Sokolsky, George. “Robert Moses Is a Selfless Man.” Pittsburgh Sun-Telegraph. June 18, 1959. https://www.newspapers.com/image/524545077/?match=1&terms=Robert%20Moses&search-id=e5e8b520-6c56-44d0-96ef-7303b5705343&search-rank=2
“Texts of Statements by Moses and Rockefeller; Statement by Mr. Moses Letter to the Governor Letter to Mr. Moses Statement by Governor 'New Phase' of Park Work Letters Exchanged.” New York Times. Dec. 1, 1962. https://www.nytimes.com/1962/12/01/archives/texts-of-statements-by-moses-and-rockefeller-statement-by-mr-moses.html
“Title I, Very Much Alive.” New York Times. July 8, 1959. https://www.nytimes.com/1959/07/08/archives/title-i-very-much-alive.html
Wallock, L. (1991). The Myth of the Master Builder: Robert Moses, New York, and the Dynamics of Metropolitan Development Since World War II: Robert Moses, New York, and the Dynamics of Metropolitan Development Since World War II. Journal of Urban History, 17(4), 339-362. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/009614429101700401

The second part of our two-parter on Robert Moses looks at the vast amount of power he amassed in New York&rsquo;s government, and the many controversies that surrounded the second half of his career.
Research:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;15% OF THE FAIR STILL UNFINISHED; 15 Pavilions and 3 Shows in Amusement Area Delayed.&rdquo; New York Times. April 22, 1964. https://www.nytimes.com/1964/04/22/archives/15-of-the-fair-still-unfinished-15-pavilions-and-3-shows-in.html</li>
<li>Ballon, Hilary, Phd. and Kenneth T. Jackson, eds. &ldquo;Robert Moses and the Modern City: The Transformation of New York.&rdquo; W.W. Norton &amp; Co. 2008.</li>
<li>Balme, Bob. &ldquo;His Pen Blisters, His Voice Stings &ndash; Robert Moses, at 71, Churns Ahead.&rdquo; Buffalo News. December 5, 1959. https://www.newspapers.com/image/868298578/?match=4&amp;terms=Robert%20Moses&amp;search-id=e5e8b520-6c56-44d0-96ef-7303b5705343&amp;search-rank=6</li>
<li>Brewer, Sam Pope. &ldquo;MOSES SLUM ROLE STIRRED DISPUTE; His 'Dead Duck' Remark on Title I Projects Aroused Urban Renewal Backers.&rdquo; New York Times. Feb. 28, 1960. https://www.nytimes.com/1960/02/28/archives/moses-slum-role-stirred-dispute-his-dead-duck-remark-on-title-i.html</li>
<li>Britannica Editors. "Robert Moses".&nbsp;Encyclopedia Britannica, 25 Jul. 2026, https://www.britannica.com/biography/Robert-Moses</li>
<li>Caro, Robert A. &ldquo;The Power Broker.&rdquo; Knopf. 1974.</li>
<li>Caro, Robert A. &ldquo;The Power Broker &ndash; I: How Robert Moses Transformed New York.&rdquo; The New Yorker. July 15, 1974. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1974/07/22/the-power-broker-i-the-best-bill-drafter-in-albany?_sp=012e2621-7c64-4868-8288-8d1d8c093dfc.1788137489337</li>
<li>Chronopoulos, T. (2014). &ldquo;Robert Moses and the Visual Dimension of Physical Disorder: Efforts to Demonstrate Urban Blight in the Age of Slum Clearance.&rdquo;&nbsp;Journal of Planning History,&nbsp;13(3), 207-233. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1538513213487149</li>
<li>Crawford, F. C. &ldquo;New York State Reorganization.&rdquo;&nbsp;The American Political Science Review, vol. 20, no. 1, 1926, pp. 76&ndash;79.&nbsp;JSTOR, https://doi.org/10.2307/1945100</li>
<li>Ellis, Robert P. &ldquo;Robert Moses.&rdquo; Ebsco. https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/history/robert-moses#lifes-work</li>
<li>&ldquo;EX-COSTELLO AIDE BARRED BY MAYOR ON SLUM PROJECTS.&rdquo; The New York Times. July 3, 1959. https://www.nytimes.com/1959/07/03/archives/excostello-aide-barred-by-mayor-on-slum-projects-pokrass.html</li>
<li>&ldquo;GOVERNOR BY MERIT.&rdquo; New York Times. Nov. 7, 1934. https://www.nytimes.com/1934/11/07/archives/governor-by-merit.html</li>
<li>Grutzner, Charles. &ldquo;MOSES SAYS TITLE I IS A 'DEAD DUCK'; DECRIES CHARGES; 'Ruinous' Attacks Kill All but Union Slum-Clearing Jobs for Future, He Asserts MAYOR STANDING FIRM He Repeats His Opposition to Any Project That Uses Kessler as Architect.&rdquo; New York Times. July 4, 1959. https://www.nytimes.com/1959/07/04/archives/moses-says-title-i-is-a-dead-duck-decries-charges-ruinous-attacks.html</li>
<li>Gutman, Marta. &ldquo;Race, Place, and Play: Robert Moses and the WPA Swimming Pools in New York City.&rdquo;&nbsp;Journal of the Society of Architectural Historians, vol. 67, no. 4, 2008, pp. 532&ndash;61.&nbsp;JSTOR, https://doi.org/10.1525/jsah.2008.67.4.532</li>
<li>&ldquo;History of City&ndash;Owned Beaches.&rdquo; Official Website of the New York City Department of Parks &amp; Recreation. https://www.nycgovparks.org/about/history/beaches/city-owned-beaches</li>
<li>&ldquo;History of&nbsp;Parks' Swimming Pools.&rdquo; Official Website of the New York City Department of Parks &amp; Recreation. https://www.nycgovparks.org/about/history/pools</li>
<li>&ldquo;Jones Beach State Park - 80 Years of Service : 1929 &ndash; 2009.&rdquo; https://jonesbeach.com/index.php?id=165%3A80-years&amp;format=pdf&amp;option=com_content&amp;Itemid=100054</li>
<li>JONES BEACH STATE PARK.&rdquo; Long Island Exchange. https://web.archive.org/web/20130121130008/http://www.longislandexchange.com/jones-beach.html</li>
<li>Kaufman, Herbert. &ldquo;Robert Moses: Charismatic Bureaucrat.&rdquo;&nbsp;Political Science Quarterly, vol. 90, no. 3, 1975, pp. 521&ndash;38.&nbsp;JSTOR, https://doi.org/10.2307/2148299</li>
<li>Kaufman, Michael T. &ldquo;Moses Rips Into &lsquo;Venomous&rsquo; Biography.&rdquo; New York Times. Aug. 27, 1974. https://www.nytimes.com/1974/08/27/archives/moses-rips-into-venomous-biography-vindictive-canards-rejects.html</li>
<li>Lambert, Bruce. &ldquo;One Man's Dream, Blissful Jones Beach Is Like No Other Place.&rdquo; New York Times. Sept. 28, 1997. https://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/28/nyregion/one-man-s-dream-blissful-jones-beach-is-like-no-other-place.html</li>
<li>&ldquo;Moses Must Go!&rdquo; Met Council on Housing. May 14, 2012. https://www.metcouncilonhousing.org/moses-must-go/</li>
<li>Moses, Robert. &ldquo;Public Works: A Dangerous Trade.&rdquo; New York. McGraw-Hill. 1970. https://archive.org/details/publicworksdange00mose/page/n7/mode/2up</li>
<li>Moses, Robert. &ldquo;Slums and City Planning.&rdquo; The Atlantic. January 1945. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1945/01/slums-and-city-planning/306544/</li>
<li>Paquette, Carol. &ldquo;Showcasing the Career of Robert Moses.&rdquo; New York Times. Oct. 1, 1995. https://www.nytimes.com/1995/10/01/nyregion/showcasing-the-career-of-robert-moses.html</li>
<li>Phillips, Wayne. &ldquo;Title I and Slum Clearance: A Decade of Controversy; Partnership of City and U. S. Has Built 8,000 Apartments -- Disputes Involve Moses and Aims of Program.&rdquo; New York Times. June 29, 1959. https://www.nytimes.com/1959/06/29/archives/title-i-and-slum-clearance-a-decade-of-controversy-partnership-of.html</li>
<li>&ldquo;POKRASS BAN IS ASKED; Senator Bids Housing Aides Act on Costello Associate.&rdquo; New York Times. July 9, 1959. https://www.nytimes.com/1959/07/09/archives/pokrass-ban-is-asked-senator-bids-housing-aides-act-on-costello.html</li>
<li>Rogers, Elizabeth Barlow. &ldquo;Robert Caro and Robert Moses Redux.&rdquo; SiteLINES: A Journal of Place. Vol. 3, No. 1 (Fall 2007), pp. 16-18. Foundation for Landscape Studies. https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2307/24889293</li>
<li>Smith, Red. &ldquo;Robert Moses, the Empire Builder.&rdquo; New York Times. Aug. 5, 1981. https://www.nytimes.com/1981/08/05/sports/red-smith-robert-moses-the-empire-builder.html</li>
<li>Sokolsky, George. &ldquo;Robert Moses Is a Selfless Man.&rdquo; Pittsburgh Sun-Telegraph. June 18, 1959. https://www.newspapers.com/image/524545077/?match=1&amp;terms=Robert%20Moses&amp;search-id=e5e8b520-6c56-44d0-96ef-7303b5705343&amp;search-rank=2</li>
<li>&ldquo;Texts of Statements by Moses and Rockefeller; Statement by Mr. Moses Letter to the Governor Letter to Mr. Moses Statement by Governor 'New Phase' of Park Work Letters Exchanged.&rdquo; New York Times. Dec. 1, 1962. https://www.nytimes.com/1962/12/01/archives/texts-of-statements-by-moses-and-rockefeller-statement-by-mr-moses.html</li>
<li>&ldquo;Title I, Very Much Alive.&rdquo; New York Times. July 8, 1959. https://www.nytimes.com/1959/07/08/archives/title-i-very-much-alive.html</li>
<li>Wallock, L. (1991). The Myth of the Master Builder: Robert Moses, New York, and the Dynamics of Metropolitan Development Since World War II: Robert Moses, New York, and the Dynamics of Metropolitan Development Since World War II.&nbsp;Journal of Urban History,&nbsp;17(4), 339-362. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/009614429101700401</li>
</ul>

The second part of our two-parter on Robert Moses looks at the vast amount of power he amassed in New York’s government, and the many controversies that surrounded the second half of his career.

Robert Moses and the Shaping of New York, Part 2

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/88f46457-0fba-45c3-8a8b-b4ca015b4713/transcript

Interview: Mary Robinette Kowal on the 'Lady Astronaut' Duology

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