From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of My Heart Rating. Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called me Ben. We are joined with our guest producer, Mr Max, the Transport Chief Williams. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. It is Thursday as you are hearing this. If you listen the day it comes out, we are going to do one of our favorite things, which is here from our fellow listeners. We're going to talk about some heavy, heavy stuff. We're going to talk about you a p S. We're gonna exp lore, one of our favorite hobby horses, the role of hallucinogens and religion, uh, and we're also going to go into a story UH that we believe is incredibly important. We wanted to put this put this up front. You've doubtlessly heard the news if you work or live in the New York City metro area. Something quite controversial just happened. So we want to be fair with the way we approached this. This is an ongoing, fresh baked event. Uh. And we, I think as a group, want to give a very special thanks to a wonderful letter from Depression Dave in Denver and Dave, you gave us the permission to use your use your actual name. Uh. But honestly, just love the alliteration of depression Dave and Denver so much that it felt like we we would be remiss not to admire that piece of good writing, you know what I mean. So here we go as a little long so will stop along the way and chat about some of this. Hey, guys, says Depression Dave. It's kiss met that I happened to listen to your episode on Thought Crimes on the same day New York City announced still be involuntarily hospitalizing mentally ill people. Record scratch, that's a true story. Uh. And Depression Dave goes on and says, ask someone with depression and anxiety disorders. I've been watching the rhetoric against mental illness pile up over the years. Whenever there's a mass shooting, initial reports, after checking that their skin color doesn't fall into the terrorist category, leap to speculate on mental illness. He was deeply disturbed, or he had bouts of or suffered from deep depression, he was a loner, etcetera. Eventually we get around to talking about gun control, but the n r A quickly pivots that to discussion to guns don't kill people. Mentally ill people kill people. And when we collectively shrug and say there's nothing we can do about the guns, all that remains is the mental illness. With each new tragic event, the stigma against mental illness grows in a pause there before we continue, Um, what what what do you guys think of that? I do think that depression. Dave is pointing to a troubling trend that we see pretty often. Yeah, it's when we talked about quite a few times in our most recent Strange News episode, the idea of you know, weapons, the argument that weapons are at tool, it's just about how you focus them, and that is a slippery slope kind of argument. I was talking about technology in general in that regard. But yeah, I agree, Well, Dave. Dave just points out the cycle pretty well because it does seem to be what we go through every time there is any kind of mass shooting, and there are a lot of them. It follows that same route. Yeah, and wherever you fall. And the the ongoing discourse about firearms in the United States in particular, you have to admit the the n r A is a little biased. They they exist to make sure that firearms can still be sold, right, So they're logically speaking, it is not a thing on them necessarily. They're logically speaking, uh, not going to be the first group to say, hey, we should make fewer guns. That's just not you know, McDonald's is never going to come out and say, uh, we're not going to make fries, right, It's it's antithetical to their existence. So we know this is a situation that affects so many people in this country, both struggling with mental conditions and the danger of firearms as as depression. Dave continues. He says, back to NYC, the police have been given carte blanche to round up and incarceraate anyone off the street they suspect of having a mental illness. These aren't people who have committed any crime or pose an immediate threat. They're just people whose medical history or perceived medical history deems them a potential threat. Over the past several years, says depression, Dave. I've been concerned of the day those of us diagnosed with depression will be rounded up and put in camps to protect the general population, and now it seems that day is quickly drawing closer. No, paranoia is not on my roster of disorders. Uh. And Dave goes on to say some very very nice things about the show, Thank you so much, Dave, and then ends with ends with something that I thought was really impressive. Folks. He says, if you want to read my ramblings on air, feel free to use my first name. I want to normalize mental disorders and a large part of that for me is not hiding them or hiding myself and talking about them. But if that's not your bag of badgers, you can go at Depression Day in Denver. Thanks Brian, and Brian, it's out of respect for your letter that we are using your first name again. We stuck with Depression Dave from Denver because that's an awesome nickname, Like that's an example for the class. But this is also um, this is something that I know stood out to all three of us, and know it stood out to you, know and and to you Matt as well. Uh. And guys, I spent some time looking into this and figuring out, you know, different issues, even did a little bit of like lazy cocktail math. Uh. This announcement was portrayed by the Mayor of New York, Eric Adams as a moral necessity. Said that his team had been visiting and surveying tent camps, home encampments of unhoused people in particular, and getting dad to on people in the streets and the subways, and they believe that it is an ethical imperative right to provide care for these people. However, you can see why this would be so controversial because the because they still need more details of the plan, and they're talking about taking people who have not committed a crime and forcibly putting them into an institution. It's not the same as a prison, but it is very much it do not pass, go, do not collect two situation. Uh, this I don't know. There there are a lot of issues here and the way it's being reported. It's part of this eleven point series of reforms he's talking about, but I'm just not sure which direction we want to go with this one. Like if you just look at the history of mental health care, in the US, A lot of those UH facilities were closed down decades ago, in the seventies through the nineties, and these people were just sent out on the streets, you know. And if if you live in an area like we do, where there are a lot of unhoused people, then you notice that there are people struggling. There are people struggling with um maybe undiagnosed mental conditions, or they're not being treated for those conditions, they're being criminalized for them instead. I mean, is this is this a way to which well, it is a way. Is this a good way to address it? Let's talk about the positives, because you're you're kind of already hitting on them. Ben, there the history of just mistreating anybody that has a is dealing with some kind of illness like that, you know, generally in the mind, and they are there. They don't have the money to pay for private treatment, right they don't have the ability to pay for treatment on their own. Um, this is a way to provide at least temporary treatment for people. The way it's being described to me in these articles that you've shared been and in what Brian sent to us, it definitely doesn't seem like a positive move, But I think there is a there is maybe a good intention at the heart of it, where it is, let's get let's force the city to get help for everybody that might need it. It just seems like, like, how would you do that without Without this method of having the police pick people up, you'd have a voluntary place where people could go and receive treatment for a few days or something. Is this essentially just kind of a blunt instrument approach to reducing homelessness, like, you know, as as a kind of like you know problem in terms of like the crime and the in the you know, the optics of it, you know, which I think, yes, it does to me as well. Yeah, No matter how much you know, how much work a campaign or an administration puts into framing it as a moral imperative, there are a lot of dangerous questions. Another question, can the existing institutions and care facilities handle it? You know, the pandemic hit those things like a hurricane, right, uh, and there are you have to think about the perspective of the professionals who are already working there, and probably I am certain have tons of great and very specific evidence based advice for you know, a revolving door of politicians. Uh, and likely feel ignored. You know, I have like you can see horror stories of people who have been institutionalized against their will, uh, and horror stories of people who have worked in those institutions. None of these people necessarily being criminals. It's just very important parts of the system are broken. So according to great New York Times article about this, which depression David Denver also linked to us too, there were an estimated three thousand, four hundred, uh how unhoused people in New York City that were mentally ill? Right, Uh, And that seems for many people, that seems kind of tiny, right in terms of like relative to the size of the city, even though we're talking about thousands of people. It seems like it would only work if it was part of a much larger plan. And you can you can absolutely re the the eleven point literature or plan from from the administration. But what do you what do you guys think about depression Dave's primary concern? Do you see this as a step toward um toward a world where people who are not a danger to themselves might be locked up? Yeah, it makes me think of the kind of criteria that allows you know, like one flew over the cuckoo's nest or something. You know, we're like a problematic societal individual who's more of a counterculture type cat, gets you know, pegged as a mental health risk and then gets lobotomized, you know what I mean. That's obviously, you know, very dated, but it's a it's a great film, and I think speaks to this kind of stuff, um where, once you're in the system in that way, you lose a lot of autonomy. For me, Ben, this reads very similarly to stuff we're hearing about in the mids, Like right around seen I remember hearing about a couple of major cities doing the bus thing with but own house people. So just put them on a bus, get them out of our major metropolitan area, send them somewhere else. It feels like this this would be a mandated way for police officers to get an unhoused person into the system who could then be just shipped out after a couple of days of treatment or something purposefully and sent somewhere else. Yeah. Yeah, Like during the Olympics, how various cities have bust people out right for the crime of existing without a permanent home. Uh, and then there here's here's some of the math that I was looking for his cocktail napkin math. So so take it with a grain of salt. On average, some calculated thirty of unhoused people may struggle with some sort of mental illness. So if you took the population projected sixty population shows people in New York and you applied that thirty statistic, then you would get to the idea of eighteen thousand homeless people in New York City struggling with some sort of mental condition. Uh. This, this is still a lot of people. And you know the mayor has already been accused of sweeping folks, sweeping issues under the rug right under the guise of some sort of um good intention. And this is not to cast this version on the intentions. It's just saying good intentions can result in terrible things. And you you describe a revolving door quite well there, Matt, because even if, like if you live in a city where there is a a stationary, relatively non migratory population of a housed people, then you'll you'll see, like I've I've seen it around where our old office was, there a lot of people that we all three of us have seen over the years who would disappear for a little bit because they maybe had an episode of some sort. They got caught up in something, so they got detained, They got taken to the local hospital like Grady Hospital, or they got put in um putting what they call the tank, you know, and they were locked up for a few days, they got a hearing, and they got put back out on the streets because no one wanted the paperwork, no one wanted the problem. And is that going to happen again if someone is from what I understand, people are being put put in these situations, right, They're being detained and then they have a hearing of some sort, right, Um, So it's not as though as it's not as if they're being just thrown in a hole for years and years. But that is the concern. And another concern is how are you gonna how can you reliably diagnose a mental condition that meets the standards that you're proposing, right, Like you're a police officer, you know, and and this is not this is not even denigrading uh members of law enforcement who will find themselves in this situation. You're just probably not a mental health expert. Well, even mental health experts. I mean, so much of this stuff there are gray areas. It's not like a one size fits all. A lot of this stuff when it gets you know, sort of codified and socialized like this, it's just about ticking boxes, um and and that's not always particularly accurate. Like again, like I said earlier, it's sort of a blunt instrument approach. I was just trying to think, like, what do you like, what is an actual solution for any of this? And you know, sometimes, yeah, sometimes it can go to the old witch hunt levels, right where some of the primary evidence I guess someone accused of witchcraft was that they said they weren't a witch. You know, So there might be someone who says, look, I'm not a quote unquote I'm not crazy, right, and they say, well, that's exactly what someone like you would say, and then off they go. I think it's incredibly concerning. We have to keep eyes on this because the the US has for a long time been woefully unequipped to deal with serious problems with health mental health care. Right, whether you're talking veterans, whether you're talking people pushed to the brink during a pandemic, whether you're talking about all the people who found themselves with no safe place to go when the institutions were closed down in the seventies and the nineties. Uh. And I believe this is an episode for the future, but we're reading to do we need eyes on this. We want your help, folks, so let us know your perspective to the to the same problem Matt was just talking about, how does one go about fixing it? What are the appropriate steps? Want to hear from medical health professionals. We want to hear from people who are have struggled in the past or currently with similar issues. Uh. And you know we'll do our best to maintain anonymity and only right to us if you feel comfortable communicating with your fellow listeners in that regard. Uh. In the meantime, we're gonna pause for a word from our sponsor. We'll be back with more messages from you. Stay safe everyone, And we have returned with another message from you, this one coming from Brooklyn from our friend I'm just gonna call them V Hello, Ben Nolan. Matt a longtime listener and fan of your std w y t K also a big fan of exploring origins of religion and how hallucinogens may or may not have played a role. I find it all incredibly fascinating. I have heard of this theory before your show, and thanks to your podcast, I first learned of the bicameral mind and the theory behind the origins of consciousness. How intriguing it is to think that ancient human beings thought their inner voices were gods or such that were directing them to do things. What does that say about humans and our minds? Very very interesting stuff. I recently watched this Hulu show called Catherine the Great, and while it was highly fictionalized, I have no doubt they infused historical facts in the overarching storyline. And that is the case. Catherine the Great was, i believe, written by the same person that wrote the movie Um oh Gosh, The Favorite, which was directed by your ghost Lanthamos, which is a fabulous film about like sort of a fictionalized relationship between a queen and like sort of her handmaiden, and it's just it gets bonkers. If you haven't seen it, it's really really bizarre and psychedelic and weird and and touching and insane. And one scene in Katherine the Great showed their priest taking mushrooms to quote speak to God, and when Catherine joined them, she claimed she didn't hear God, but she felt love and understood the meaning of everything as it was. It's so crazy to think that these men in power in religion, those that sought to control the masses, etcetera, could have been high on hallucinogens and thought they were obeying orders from a higher being. To think that we could have understood just how connected we are to the earth if only we understood our own minds better. Um, hope you enjoyed my thought. Vomit here, Love you guys, Love the show can have the good work. Love from Brooklyn v um. So this is interesting on a lot of levels. But uh, Matt, you and I recently spoke about the the show UM or the the anthology series UM Good yea Motel Toro's Cabinet of Curiosity, and you happen to watch the one episode that kind of sucked. It was an adaptation of the um HP Love Crab story. UM what is it? Dreams in the Witch House? Kind of a bad episode, Like I really like the series in general. That was on a very good episode, I had this weird talking rat like there's things about it that we're just really just unforgivably bad. But it has a thing where this character is trying to reach his sister who's like in this other dimension or his dead or something. Again, it was so bad I barely paid attention. But in order to do that, he's given this sleucinogenic substance um and it's through the you know this like he goes to the special kind of like uh like place, this like club kind of where the people they're like sort of like say holy men are kind of shaman type figures. And the stuff that he's given is clearly very closely guarded stuff, right, And these these substances in the past were just as V described, very closely guarded and not just for everybody, because he can't just give it to the clubs on the street. We we'd have a uprising on our hands, you know what I mean. So, like it was this stuff that was reserved for these like you know, conduits to God um and and this is it's often the case you know, in in in in uh Native American tradition and South American tradition, you always you know, on like vision quests and such, you know, or like the sweat lodge kind of situations. You had to be supervised, you know, by a shaman or somebody that had expertise in in this uh, in this realm because it was looked at as as participating in another realm of consciousness, um, you know. And and now um, unfortunately oftentimes it has gotten I believe the incorrect reputation is being like this party drug or something like that. But it's it's a history goes back just generations, you know, like hundreds and hundreds of years, um. And it was often utilized by priests and and these types of you know, holy figures. Um. So I think that's a really interesting way of looking at it, and how how many of these folks that were taking it did feel like this was their kind of key to the kingdom. Matt, I see you kind of twitching over there. I know this is something that that fascinates you as well. Yeah, it's it certainly feels as though to me personally, without looking at all of the science and history, that hallucinogenic substances of some sort unlocked something in the human brain as it was developing. That's just that's literally my opinion. That's what it feels like to me, but also the gatekeeper aspect of it, though I'm wondering what you think about that of like, you know, you you can only take only certain people can take this stuff, you know, or you have to take it under the supervision of like you know, someone who is you know, superior to you in terms of like a priest. It's sort of like, you know, doing confession. You can only do it to a priest because that is your conduit to God. So the idea, um, I think you're nailing something here. Uh, that's incredibly important, you know, both you and v. The idea of gate keeping without the bad connotation the gate keeping has these days, was pretty necessary because in many cases there have to be um special preparations, right, Like these are not necessarily recreational activities. And like Matt, I am convinced that. I am convinced that hallucinogens have played a huge role in the ancient past, and people forget, you know, it's so easy to look around and see what's considered verboten or bad in the modern age and not realized that this was very much not the case in the past. Yeah, and that and to me that that's sort of the the crux of these email the idea of sort of like keeping people apart from spirituality in some ways, like I'm always fascinated just without the psychedelic aspect of it at all, just how so. And religions don't allow people to speak directly to God, you know, you have to talk to a priest, or you have to go through a shaman, or you have to have some sort of conduit um. And that to me is a is a mode of control, you know, of keeping people under a thumb of some sort. Yeah, if you can, if you can prevent someone from having whatever that religious experiences, you know, especially early on, then yeah, you could maintain control probably if that religious experience unlocked a real truth right to existence, to life, to God, to something like that, Because then it becomes this whole like, well what do I need you for? You know? Yeah, I've got all the I've got all the equipment. You know, I've got the same brain as you. Um, I I can do all this stuff, you know, on my own. And that's a big part of what Protestantism was about, too, is is like what do I need this priest for? And all of these rituals, like God should be a personal connection, you know, between an individual and whatever that thing is. You know, again, I'm not talking about God as in the Christian God person. I mean, obviously in Protestantism versus Catholicism, that's what we're talking about. But in general, that connection to whatever that power or energy or earth or whatever nature is is very intimately personal. Yeah, the concept of intercession, right, and religion as a control mechanism, which very much in many cases it is the idea. I've said it before years ago. So like the primary evolution of humans socially, as you start with the family that's the first group unit, then it goes to the tribe that's the second group unit, then it goes to the religion. These people are not related to me, but we all are under the same ideological um mindset, I don't want to say under. It's not like they're being hypnotized, but we all believe the same thing. And then the state gets bigger, and now we're at the verge of the state going to the corporation. You know, the same same evolution, but the um. I think you're making a great point about the idea of of gate keeping, and sometimes it was with that bad connotation unnecessary evil, right to prevent people from in fighting, and then those in power. Right, the popes were above kings for so much of so much of European history. Right, you could you could be king, but you still have to be nice to the pope, right, or else there's a war. So it's like history again, is much closer than it looks. And in the rear view mirror, I wonder, you know, it makes me think of the the idea that what they used to call it the mushroom. Christ, I don't know about this, No, please, I I do know what you're talking about. How would how would you describe it? Man? Oh? Well, maybe I'm wrong. I thought this was the concept that Jesus Christ has written about in the Bible, was not in fact a human being that went around and did all this these things. It is that it was a mushroom. Yeah, it's like an allegory of a human being, but when in fact it's it's the psilocybin itself, an episode I thought we talked about. I mean, it's we do a lot of these, and this is I would I would have I would have glombed onto that. I mean, that's super fascinating, So please no, go on, tell me more. It's this guy John m Allegro, and back in the seventies, in this book called The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, he argued that it was that the ultimate roots of Christianity and a bunch of other religions. By the way, it's not just talking about Christianity comes from fertility cults that are based on the same um interaction with psychoactive substances. He took a step further than a lot of other people and said Jesus Christ never existed as an historical figure, but was this kind of code for lack of a better word, for mushrooms. And just to be clear, spoiler, a lot of scholars do not agree with him, and a lot of people were offended. I'm sure that's what what many would call sacrilege. Um, but that is fascinating. Wow. Okay, I need to dig more into this concept, um. But thank you v for this, uh, this impetus for this bit of discussion. Um. It's it's always you know, welcome for sure. So we're gonna take a quick break here, a word from our sponsor, and then return and have one more piece of listener mail. All right, we are back, and we are jumping to correspondence we received from someone we're going to call Michigan Lights. That is not the person's name. We're going to call you that just for anonymity, just in case. Thank you very much for writing in with this story. By the way, this is one of these personal first person tales of an encounter with lights in the sky. And if you're listening to this, hopefully you realize at least by now that these are some of our favorite kinds of stories, because it just sparks that deep curiosity in all three of us about what could be going on, What did someone actually see? What are all the possibilities and let's think about them. So we're gonna jump right in to this story, Michigan Lights Rights. Okay, so my sister introduced me to your show. We both find the type of stuff you discuss so interesting. But she's more open to conspiracies and crazy concepts, while I'm typically more skeptical and rely on logic and facts. So this experience is so crazy and unreal to me. I feel like a lunatic even reaching out lunatic. Remember we just talked about that back in but I just can't comprehend or explain what I nest. It was dark outside already on November twenty two and around six twenty in Fenton, Michigan, my sister and I were driving home from work together, which is routine and has been for a while along this route. I was driving and we were on the highway, so I didn't see it at first, but my sister pointed out a weird light thing. I looked and it was these super bright red lights just off to the side of the highway. It was in a grid positioned horizontally to the Earth's surface, and it was a little above the tree line, pretty high in the air. It had this weird beam from it and the ground with two parallel lines with a bunch of dashes moving upward towards the object. Okay, jumping out of the email for a second, what like that? In my mind, I see a carnival ride. I don't know about you guys, but I see like a huge maybe six flags ride or something that has you know, the ones that are kind of circular and they're high up in the sky and they've got line running down from the out side of the circle, and there's like seats on on the kind of like the gravitroum, but the ones that have like the crazy swings, the crazy swings, that's guta get it, That's what I say in the scary hide spooky swings. Yeah, but illuminated at night, and so you don't really see all the stuff. You just see the lights that are moving up and all this stuff, which immediately that's where my head goes to. But Michigan Lights is saying, this is a route that they usually go on. They've never seen this thing before. It really stood out and it looked very different. I don't know any other thoughts here, you guys, before we move on. No, I see what you're saying that in terms of the dashes heading towards the object, like that might be you know, not not yeah, not dismissing what this is, but I can see that as being a woire connecting another thing that then is is being pulled, you know, gravitationally, and they're moving in tandem. Yeah. And it's getting towards the end of November there too, so uh, this would be the time that people begin constructing things, right like holiday markets and so on. So we're aware of that. But then there's something about you know, like you point out the familiarity, I think we need to learn about the size of it. Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. And the grid was a little weird too, stating that it was a grid positioned horizontally to the Earth's surface. That's strange to me. All right, let's keep that in mind as we continue back in. It was huge, with fifty to a hundred individual light sources perfectly spaced in a flat grid. At first, when I first saw it, I said it must be one of those power structures with all those metal beams with that you know that everyone knows. My sister thought they were lights maybe recently put up for a Christmas on a building. There. You go, Ben, But we drive this route every day on the way to and back for work, but there's never been a structure there. So then it got scary weird. I looked away at it by signed a register where we were so we could look when it was light outside and see if something was there. My sister said something about the thing in the sky, so I looked again. When I looked back, the lights were changing colors, flashing all colors of the rainbow super quickly and moving into a saucer like shape. They then started floating up. My sister and I were flipping, like, what the hell is this. I was driving and I almost hit a car because I was staring at this thing in the sky directly beside us. I swerved and then I looked back through my mirror and the lights were still going up, and then the lights started to turn off, one at a time, and then the entire thing disappeared into the sky. The whole thing shook me to the core. Usually if someone told me a story like this, I'd say, you probably didn't see it right, or there's some way to explain that. Usually we were doing that exactly right. This is what I mean, that's what we try and do. Uh really, going back in I'd usually secret laugh at someone with these claims. But I saw it clear as day, and so did my sister. A big, weird light structure with no physical body that's visible. It had some kind of beam coming from the ground and only appeared to be light, but absolutely moved like it was one unit from the surface, and then it changed colors and flew away and disappeared completely. I wish I could make this up. I'd just be going crazy, but I can't deny what I saw. I wasn't alone, and my sister and I saw the exact same thing. It was a building sized something hovering over the surface of Earth that was then able to take off and lift effortlessly into the sky. I don't know, but I just can't imagine a man made aircraft capable of what we saw. And this next part goes to one of my big questions here for your Michigan lights. Uh did you go back to the area during the daytime, especially because you're familiar with it? Right? Uh? So you continue. I looked it up. Then when I got home and tried to find an explanation or anything similar reported before. I couldn't get any useful results except for one Reddit thread similar enough that I'll attach a screenshot from what they saw. But what they saw was higher than what we saw. I've always believed that there was alien life out there, but I never thought we were close to interacting with it. But now I wonder. Long story, but I hope you stay with me because I'm begging you guys, for the sake of my peace of mind, to look into this and give me a logical explanation, because my sister and I are in our pants, thinking everything we thought we knew about our reality is subject to change time for some mushrooms. She didn't write that. She didn't write that, we're just building a theme. How far is it from Michigan to Colorado? Well, this is I mean, this is something in right. This is something that makes us think though, because if it is right by a highway or somewhere you can observe it while driving, then unless it's an abandoned road, other people would have seen it. So I'd love right now to jump to whatever image that Michigan Light sent us. But for some reason it didn't go through our email system. So we we literally have a little box that says image one dot PNG, which isn't great. Sometimes the security is a little too high over here in the servers. But we'd love to know what else you have. If anyone else out there listening saw something similar to this in Michigan on November twenty two, or you know, maybe the day before, the week before, the week after, or something like that, some kind of construction, some kind of event that was occurring in Michigan around that time, so close to Fenton, Michigan. That's really just a call out to anyone listening, please seriously help us out because we haven't been able to find anything specific, and you can do that easily by reaching out online where we are conspiracy stuff on Facebook, YouTube and Twitter, conspiracy Stuff show on Instagram. Yes, and we have a phone number if you want to call, it is one eight three three st d w y t K. You've got three minutes. Give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if we can use your name and message on the air. And if you don't like phones, that's totally fine, We get it. Why not send us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of My Heart Rating. Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called me Ben. We are joined with our guest producer, Mr Max, the Transport Chief Williams. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. It is Thursday as you are hearing this. If you listen the day it comes out, we are going to do one of our favorite things, which is here from our fellow listeners. We're going to talk about some heavy, heavy stuff. We're going to talk about you a p S. We're gonna exp lore, one of our favorite hobby horses, the role of hallucinogens and religion, uh, and we're also going to go into a story UH that we believe is incredibly important. We wanted to put this put this up front. You've doubtlessly heard the news if you work or live in the New York City metro area. Something quite controversial just happened. So we want to be fair with the way we approached this. This is an ongoing, fresh baked event. Uh. And we, I think as a group, want to give a very special thanks to a wonderful letter from Depression Dave in Denver and Dave, you gave us the permission to use your use your actual name. Uh. But honestly, just love the alliteration of depression Dave and Denver so much that it felt like we we would be remiss not to admire that piece of good writing, you know what I mean. So here we go as a little long so will stop along the way and chat about some of this. Hey, guys, says Depression Dave. It's kiss met that I happened to listen to your episode on Thought Crimes on the same day New York City announced still be involuntarily hospitalizing mentally ill people. Record scratch, that's a true story. Uh. And Depression Dave goes on and says, ask someone with depression and anxiety disorders. I've been watching the rhetoric against mental illness pile up over the years. Whenever there's a mass shooting, initial reports, after checking that their skin color doesn't fall into the terrorist category, leap to speculate on mental illness. He was deeply disturbed, or he had bouts of or suffered from deep depression, he was a loner, etcetera. Eventually we get around to talking about gun control, but the n r A quickly pivots that to discussion to guns don't kill people. Mentally ill people kill people. And when we collectively shrug and say there's nothing we can do about the guns, all that remains is the mental illness. With each new tragic event, the stigma against mental illness grows in a pause there before we continue, Um, what what what do you guys think of that? I do think that depression. Dave is pointing to a troubling trend that we see pretty often. Yeah, it's when we talked about quite a few times in our most recent Strange News episode, the idea of you know, weapons, the argument that weapons are at tool, it's just about how you focus them, and that is a slippery slope kind of argument. I was talking about technology in general in that regard. But yeah, I agree, Well, Dave. Dave just points out the cycle pretty well because it does seem to be what we go through every time there is any kind of mass shooting, and there are a lot of them. It follows that same route. Yeah, and wherever you fall. And the the ongoing discourse about firearms in the United States in particular, you have to admit the the n r A is a little biased. They they exist to make sure that firearms can still be sold, right, So they're logically speaking, it is not a thing on them necessarily. They're logically speaking, uh, not going to be the first group to say, hey, we should make fewer guns. That's just not you know, McDonald's is never going to come out and say, uh, we're not going to make fries, right, It's it's antithetical to their existence. So we know this is a situation that affects so many people in this country, both struggling with mental conditions and the danger of firearms as as depression. Dave continues. He says, back to NYC, the police have been given carte blanche to round up and incarceraate anyone off the street they suspect of having a mental illness. These aren't people who have committed any crime or pose an immediate threat. They're just people whose medical history or perceived medical history deems them a potential threat. Over the past several years, says depression, Dave. I've been concerned of the day those of us diagnosed with depression will be rounded up and put in camps to protect the general population, and now it seems that day is quickly drawing closer. No, paranoia is not on my roster of disorders. Uh. And Dave goes on to say some very very nice things about the show, Thank you so much, Dave, and then ends with ends with something that I thought was really impressive. Folks. He says, if you want to read my ramblings on air, feel free to use my first name. I want to normalize mental disorders and a large part of that for me is not hiding them or hiding myself and talking about them. But if that's not your bag of badgers, you can go at Depression Day in Denver. Thanks Brian, and Brian, it's out of respect for your letter that we are using your first name again. We stuck with Depression Dave from Denver because that's an awesome nickname, Like that's an example for the class. But this is also um, this is something that I know stood out to all three of us, and know it stood out to you, know and and to you Matt as well. Uh. And guys, I spent some time looking into this and figuring out, you know, different issues, even did a little bit of like lazy cocktail math. Uh. This announcement was portrayed by the Mayor of New York, Eric Adams as a moral necessity. Said that his team had been visiting and surveying tent camps, home encampments of unhoused people in particular, and getting dad to on people in the streets and the subways, and they believe that it is an ethical imperative right to provide care for these people. However, you can see why this would be so controversial because the because they still need more details of the plan, and they're talking about taking people who have not committed a crime and forcibly putting them into an institution. It's not the same as a prison, but it is very much it do not pass, go, do not collect two situation. Uh, this I don't know. There there are a lot of issues here and the way it's being reported. It's part of this eleven point series of reforms he's talking about, but I'm just not sure which direction we want to go with this one. Like if you just look at the history of mental health care, in the US, A lot of those UH facilities were closed down decades ago, in the seventies through the nineties, and these people were just sent out on the streets, you know. And if if you live in an area like we do, where there are a lot of unhoused people, then you notice that there are people struggling. There are people struggling with um maybe undiagnosed mental conditions, or they're not being treated for those conditions, they're being criminalized for them instead. I mean, is this is this a way to which well, it is a way. Is this a good way to address it? Let's talk about the positives, because you're you're kind of already hitting on them. Ben, there the history of just mistreating anybody that has a is dealing with some kind of illness like that, you know, generally in the mind, and they are there. They don't have the money to pay for private treatment, right they don't have the ability to pay for treatment on their own. Um, this is a way to provide at least temporary treatment for people. The way it's being described to me in these articles that you've shared been and in what Brian sent to us, it definitely doesn't seem like a positive move, But I think there is a there is maybe a good intention at the heart of it, where it is, let's get let's force the city to get help for everybody that might need it. It just seems like, like, how would you do that without Without this method of having the police pick people up, you'd have a voluntary place where people could go and receive treatment for a few days or something. Is this essentially just kind of a blunt instrument approach to reducing homelessness, like, you know, as as a kind of like you know problem in terms of like the crime and the in the you know, the optics of it, you know, which I think, yes, it does to me as well. Yeah, No matter how much you know, how much work a campaign or an administration puts into framing it as a moral imperative, there are a lot of dangerous questions. Another question, can the existing institutions and care facilities handle it? You know, the pandemic hit those things like a hurricane, right, uh, and there are you have to think about the perspective of the professionals who are already working there, and probably I am certain have tons of great and very specific evidence based advice for you know, a revolving door of politicians. Uh, and likely feel ignored. You know, I have like you can see horror stories of people who have been institutionalized against their will, uh, and horror stories of people who have worked in those institutions. None of these people necessarily being criminals. It's just very important parts of the system are broken. So according to great New York Times article about this, which depression David Denver also linked to us too, there were an estimated three thousand, four hundred, uh how unhoused people in New York City that were mentally ill? Right, Uh, And that seems for many people, that seems kind of tiny, right in terms of like relative to the size of the city, even though we're talking about thousands of people. It seems like it would only work if it was part of a much larger plan. And you can you can absolutely re the the eleven point literature or plan from from the administration. But what do you what do you guys think about depression Dave's primary concern? Do you see this as a step toward um toward a world where people who are not a danger to themselves might be locked up? Yeah, it makes me think of the kind of criteria that allows you know, like one flew over the cuckoo's nest or something. You know, we're like a problematic societal individual who's more of a counterculture type cat, gets you know, pegged as a mental health risk and then gets lobotomized, you know what I mean. That's obviously, you know, very dated, but it's a it's a great film, and I think speaks to this kind of stuff, um where, once you're in the system in that way, you lose a lot of autonomy. For me, Ben, this reads very similarly to stuff we're hearing about in the mids, Like right around seen I remember hearing about a couple of major cities doing the bus thing with but own house people. So just put them on a bus, get them out of our major metropolitan area, send them somewhere else. It feels like this this would be a mandated way for police officers to get an unhoused person into the system who could then be just shipped out after a couple of days of treatment or something purposefully and sent somewhere else. Yeah. Yeah, Like during the Olympics, how various cities have bust people out right for the crime of existing without a permanent home. Uh, and then there here's here's some of the math that I was looking for his cocktail napkin math. So so take it with a grain of salt. On average, some calculated thirty of unhoused people may struggle with some sort of mental illness. So if you took the population projected sixty population shows people in New York and you applied that thirty statistic, then you would get to the idea of eighteen thousand homeless people in New York City struggling with some sort of mental condition. Uh. This, this is still a lot of people. And you know the mayor has already been accused of sweeping folks, sweeping issues under the rug right under the guise of some sort of um good intention. And this is not to cast this version on the intentions. It's just saying good intentions can result in terrible things. And you you describe a revolving door quite well there, Matt, because even if, like if you live in a city where there is a a stationary, relatively non migratory population of a housed people, then you'll you'll see, like I've I've seen it around where our old office was, there a lot of people that we all three of us have seen over the years who would disappear for a little bit because they maybe had an episode of some sort. They got caught up in something, so they got detained, They got taken to the local hospital like Grady Hospital, or they got put in um putting what they call the tank, you know, and they were locked up for a few days, they got a hearing, and they got put back out on the streets because no one wanted the paperwork, no one wanted the problem. And is that going to happen again if someone is from what I understand, people are being put put in these situations, right, They're being detained and then they have a hearing of some sort, right, Um, So it's not as though as it's not as if they're being just thrown in a hole for years and years. But that is the concern. And another concern is how are you gonna how can you reliably diagnose a mental condition that meets the standards that you're proposing, right, Like you're a police officer, you know, and and this is not this is not even denigrading uh members of law enforcement who will find themselves in this situation. You're just probably not a mental health expert. Well, even mental health experts. I mean, so much of this stuff there are gray areas. It's not like a one size fits all. A lot of this stuff when it gets you know, sort of codified and socialized like this, it's just about ticking boxes, um and and that's not always particularly accurate. Like again, like I said earlier, it's sort of a blunt instrument approach. I was just trying to think, like, what do you like, what is an actual solution for any of this? And you know, sometimes, yeah, sometimes it can go to the old witch hunt levels, right where some of the primary evidence I guess someone accused of witchcraft was that they said they weren't a witch. You know, So there might be someone who says, look, I'm not a quote unquote I'm not crazy, right, and they say, well, that's exactly what someone like you would say, and then off they go. I think it's incredibly concerning. We have to keep eyes on this because the the US has for a long time been woefully unequipped to deal with serious problems with health mental health care. Right, whether you're talking veterans, whether you're talking people pushed to the brink during a pandemic, whether you're talking about all the people who found themselves with no safe place to go when the institutions were closed down in the seventies and the nineties. Uh. And I believe this is an episode for the future, but we're reading to do we need eyes on this. We want your help, folks, so let us know your perspective to the to the same problem Matt was just talking about, how does one go about fixing it? What are the appropriate steps? Want to hear from medical health professionals. We want to hear from people who are have struggled in the past or currently with similar issues. Uh. And you know we'll do our best to maintain anonymity and only right to us if you feel comfortable communicating with your fellow listeners in that regard. Uh. In the meantime, we're gonna pause for a word from our sponsor. We'll be back with more messages from you. Stay safe everyone, And we have returned with another message from you, this one coming from Brooklyn from our friend I'm just gonna call them V Hello, Ben Nolan. Matt a longtime listener and fan of your std w y t K also a big fan of exploring origins of religion and how hallucinogens may or may not have played a role. I find it all incredibly fascinating. I have heard of this theory before your show, and thanks to your podcast, I first learned of the bicameral mind and the theory behind the origins of consciousness. How intriguing it is to think that ancient human beings thought their inner voices were gods or such that were directing them to do things. What does that say about humans and our minds? Very very interesting stuff. I recently watched this Hulu show called Catherine the Great, and while it was highly fictionalized, I have no doubt they infused historical facts in the overarching storyline. And that is the case. Catherine the Great was, i believe, written by the same person that wrote the movie Um oh Gosh, The Favorite, which was directed by your ghost Lanthamos, which is a fabulous film about like sort of a fictionalized relationship between a queen and like sort of her handmaiden, and it's just it gets bonkers. If you haven't seen it, it's really really bizarre and psychedelic and weird and and touching and insane. And one scene in Katherine the Great showed their priest taking mushrooms to quote speak to God, and when Catherine joined them, she claimed she didn't hear God, but she felt love and understood the meaning of everything as it was. It's so crazy to think that these men in power in religion, those that sought to control the masses, etcetera, could have been high on hallucinogens and thought they were obeying orders from a higher being. To think that we could have understood just how connected we are to the earth if only we understood our own minds better. Um, hope you enjoyed my thought. Vomit here, Love you guys, Love the show can have the good work. Love from Brooklyn v um. So this is interesting on a lot of levels. But uh, Matt, you and I recently spoke about the the show UM or the the anthology series UM Good yea Motel Toro's Cabinet of Curiosity, and you happen to watch the one episode that kind of sucked. It was an adaptation of the um HP Love Crab story. UM what is it? Dreams in the Witch House? Kind of a bad episode, Like I really like the series in general. That was on a very good episode, I had this weird talking rat like there's things about it that we're just really just unforgivably bad. But it has a thing where this character is trying to reach his sister who's like in this other dimension or his dead or something. Again, it was so bad I barely paid attention. But in order to do that, he's given this sleucinogenic substance um and it's through the you know this like he goes to the special kind of like uh like place, this like club kind of where the people they're like sort of like say holy men are kind of shaman type figures. And the stuff that he's given is clearly very closely guarded stuff, right, And these these substances in the past were just as V described, very closely guarded and not just for everybody, because he can't just give it to the clubs on the street. We we'd have a uprising on our hands, you know what I mean. So, like it was this stuff that was reserved for these like you know, conduits to God um and and this is it's often the case you know, in in in in uh Native American tradition and South American tradition, you always you know, on like vision quests and such, you know, or like the sweat lodge kind of situations. You had to be supervised, you know, by a shaman or somebody that had expertise in in this uh, in this realm because it was looked at as as participating in another realm of consciousness, um, you know. And and now um, unfortunately oftentimes it has gotten I believe the incorrect reputation is being like this party drug or something like that. But it's it's a history goes back just generations, you know, like hundreds and hundreds of years, um. And it was often utilized by priests and and these types of you know, holy figures. Um. So I think that's a really interesting way of looking at it, and how how many of these folks that were taking it did feel like this was their kind of key to the kingdom. Matt, I see you kind of twitching over there. I know this is something that that fascinates you as well. Yeah, it's it certainly feels as though to me personally, without looking at all of the science and history, that hallucinogenic substances of some sort unlocked something in the human brain as it was developing. That's just that's literally my opinion. That's what it feels like to me, but also the gatekeeper aspect of it, though I'm wondering what you think about that of like, you know, you you can only take only certain people can take this stuff, you know, or you have to take it under the supervision of like you know, someone who is you know, superior to you in terms of like a priest. It's sort of like, you know, doing confession. You can only do it to a priest because that is your conduit to God. So the idea, um, I think you're nailing something here. Uh, that's incredibly important, you know, both you and v. The idea of gate keeping without the bad connotation the gate keeping has these days, was pretty necessary because in many cases there have to be um special preparations, right, Like these are not necessarily recreational activities. And like Matt, I am convinced that. I am convinced that hallucinogens have played a huge role in the ancient past, and people forget, you know, it's so easy to look around and see what's considered verboten or bad in the modern age and not realized that this was very much not the case in the past. Yeah, and that and to me that that's sort of the the crux of these email the idea of sort of like keeping people apart from spirituality in some ways, like I'm always fascinated just without the psychedelic aspect of it at all, just how so. And religions don't allow people to speak directly to God, you know, you have to talk to a priest, or you have to go through a shaman, or you have to have some sort of conduit um. And that to me is a is a mode of control, you know, of keeping people under a thumb of some sort. Yeah, if you can, if you can prevent someone from having whatever that religious experiences, you know, especially early on, then yeah, you could maintain control probably if that religious experience unlocked a real truth right to existence, to life, to God, to something like that, Because then it becomes this whole like, well what do I need you for? You know? Yeah, I've got all the I've got all the equipment. You know, I've got the same brain as you. Um, I I can do all this stuff, you know, on my own. And that's a big part of what Protestantism was about, too, is is like what do I need this priest for? And all of these rituals, like God should be a personal connection, you know, between an individual and whatever that thing is. You know, again, I'm not talking about God as in the Christian God person. I mean, obviously in Protestantism versus Catholicism, that's what we're talking about. But in general, that connection to whatever that power or energy or earth or whatever nature is is very intimately personal. Yeah, the concept of intercession, right, and religion as a control mechanism, which very much in many cases it is the idea. I've said it before years ago. So like the primary evolution of humans socially, as you start with the family that's the first group unit, then it goes to the tribe that's the second group unit, then it goes to the religion. These people are not related to me, but we all are under the same ideological um mindset, I don't want to say under. It's not like they're being hypnotized, but we all believe the same thing. And then the state gets bigger, and now we're at the verge of the state going to the corporation. You know, the same same evolution, but the um. I think you're making a great point about the idea of of gate keeping, and sometimes it was with that bad connotation unnecessary evil, right to prevent people from in fighting, and then those in power. Right, the popes were above kings for so much of so much of European history. Right, you could you could be king, but you still have to be nice to the pope, right, or else there's a war. So it's like history again, is much closer than it looks. And in the rear view mirror, I wonder, you know, it makes me think of the the idea that what they used to call it the mushroom. Christ, I don't know about this, No, please, I I do know what you're talking about. How would how would you describe it? Man? Oh? Well, maybe I'm wrong. I thought this was the concept that Jesus Christ has written about in the Bible, was not in fact a human being that went around and did all this these things. It is that it was a mushroom. Yeah, it's like an allegory of a human being, but when in fact it's it's the psilocybin itself, an episode I thought we talked about. I mean, it's we do a lot of these, and this is I would I would have I would have glombed onto that. I mean, that's super fascinating, So please no, go on, tell me more. It's this guy John m Allegro, and back in the seventies, in this book called The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, he argued that it was that the ultimate roots of Christianity and a bunch of other religions. By the way, it's not just talking about Christianity comes from fertility cults that are based on the same um interaction with psychoactive substances. He took a step further than a lot of other people and said Jesus Christ never existed as an historical figure, but was this kind of code for lack of a better word, for mushrooms. And just to be clear, spoiler, a lot of scholars do not agree with him, and a lot of people were offended. I'm sure that's what what many would call sacrilege. Um, but that is fascinating. Wow. Okay, I need to dig more into this concept, um. But thank you v for this, uh, this impetus for this bit of discussion. Um. It's it's always you know, welcome for sure. So we're gonna take a quick break here, a word from our sponsor, and then return and have one more piece of listener mail. All right, we are back, and we are jumping to correspondence we received from someone we're going to call Michigan Lights. That is not the person's name. We're going to call you that just for anonymity, just in case. Thank you very much for writing in with this story. By the way, this is one of these personal first person tales of an encounter with lights in the sky. And if you're listening to this, hopefully you realize at least by now that these are some of our favorite kinds of stories, because it just sparks that deep curiosity in all three of us about what could be going on, What did someone actually see? What are all the possibilities and let's think about them. So we're gonna jump right in to this story, Michigan Lights Rights. Okay, so my sister introduced me to your show. We both find the type of stuff you discuss so interesting. But she's more open to conspiracies and crazy concepts, while I'm typically more skeptical and rely on logic and facts. So this experience is so crazy and unreal to me. I feel like a lunatic even reaching out lunatic. Remember we just talked about that back in but I just can't comprehend or explain what I nest. It was dark outside already on November twenty two and around six twenty in Fenton, Michigan, my sister and I were driving home from work together, which is routine and has been for a while along this route. I was driving and we were on the highway, so I didn't see it at first, but my sister pointed out a weird light thing. I looked and it was these super bright red lights just off to the side of the highway. It was in a grid positioned horizontally to the Earth's surface, and it was a little above the tree line, pretty high in the air. It had this weird beam from it and the ground with two parallel lines with a bunch of dashes moving upward towards the object. Okay, jumping out of the email for a second, what like that? In my mind, I see a carnival ride. I don't know about you guys, but I see like a huge maybe six flags ride or something that has you know, the ones that are kind of circular and they're high up in the sky and they've got line running down from the out side of the circle, and there's like seats on on the kind of like the gravitroum, but the ones that have like the crazy swings, the crazy swings, that's guta get it, That's what I say in the scary hide spooky swings. Yeah, but illuminated at night, and so you don't really see all the stuff. You just see the lights that are moving up and all this stuff, which immediately that's where my head goes to. But Michigan Lights is saying, this is a route that they usually go on. They've never seen this thing before. It really stood out and it looked very different. I don't know any other thoughts here, you guys, before we move on. No, I see what you're saying that in terms of the dashes heading towards the object, like that might be you know, not not yeah, not dismissing what this is, but I can see that as being a woire connecting another thing that then is is being pulled, you know, gravitationally, and they're moving in tandem. Yeah. And it's getting towards the end of November there too, so uh, this would be the time that people begin constructing things, right like holiday markets and so on. So we're aware of that. But then there's something about you know, like you point out the familiarity, I think we need to learn about the size of it. Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. And the grid was a little weird too, stating that it was a grid positioned horizontally to the Earth's surface. That's strange to me. All right, let's keep that in mind as we continue back in. It was huge, with fifty to a hundred individual light sources perfectly spaced in a flat grid. At first, when I first saw it, I said it must be one of those power structures with all those metal beams with that you know that everyone knows. My sister thought they were lights maybe recently put up for a Christmas on a building. There. You go, Ben, But we drive this route every day on the way to and back for work, but there's never been a structure there. So then it got scary weird. I looked away at it by signed a register where we were so we could look when it was light outside and see if something was there. My sister said something about the thing in the sky, so I looked again. When I looked back, the lights were changing colors, flashing all colors of the rainbow super quickly and moving into a saucer like shape. They then started floating up. My sister and I were flipping, like, what the hell is this. I was driving and I almost hit a car because I was staring at this thing in the sky directly beside us. I swerved and then I looked back through my mirror and the lights were still going up, and then the lights started to turn off, one at a time, and then the entire thing disappeared into the sky. The whole thing shook me to the core. Usually if someone told me a story like this, I'd say, you probably didn't see it right, or there's some way to explain that. Usually we were doing that exactly right. This is what I mean, that's what we try and do. Uh really, going back in I'd usually secret laugh at someone with these claims. But I saw it clear as day, and so did my sister. A big, weird light structure with no physical body that's visible. It had some kind of beam coming from the ground and only appeared to be light, but absolutely moved like it was one unit from the surface, and then it changed colors and flew away and disappeared completely. I wish I could make this up. I'd just be going crazy, but I can't deny what I saw. I wasn't alone, and my sister and I saw the exact same thing. It was a building sized something hovering over the surface of Earth that was then able to take off and lift effortlessly into the sky. I don't know, but I just can't imagine a man made aircraft capable of what we saw. And this next part goes to one of my big questions here for your Michigan lights. Uh did you go back to the area during the daytime, especially because you're familiar with it? Right? Uh? So you continue. I looked it up. Then when I got home and tried to find an explanation or anything similar reported before. I couldn't get any useful results except for one Reddit thread similar enough that I'll attach a screenshot from what they saw. But what they saw was higher than what we saw. I've always believed that there was alien life out there, but I never thought we were close to interacting with it. But now I wonder. Long story, but I hope you stay with me because I'm begging you guys, for the sake of my peace of mind, to look into this and give me a logical explanation, because my sister and I are in our pants, thinking everything we thought we knew about our reality is subject to change time for some mushrooms. She didn't write that. She didn't write that, we're just building a theme. How far is it from Michigan to Colorado? Well, this is I mean, this is something in right. This is something that makes us think though, because if it is right by a highway or somewhere you can observe it while driving, then unless it's an abandoned road, other people would have seen it. So I'd love right now to jump to whatever image that Michigan Light sent us. But for some reason it didn't go through our email system. So we we literally have a little box that says image one dot PNG, which isn't great. Sometimes the security is a little too high over here in the servers. But we'd love to know what else you have. If anyone else out there listening saw something similar to this in Michigan on November twenty two, or you know, maybe the day before, the week before, the week after, or something like that, some kind of construction, some kind of event that was occurring in Michigan around that time, so close to Fenton, Michigan. That's really just a call out to anyone listening, please seriously help us out because we haven't been able to find anything specific, and you can do that easily by reaching out online where we are conspiracy stuff on Facebook, YouTube and Twitter, conspiracy Stuff show on Instagram. Yes, and we have a phone number if you want to call, it is one eight three three st d w y t K. You've got three minutes. Give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if we can use your name and message on the air. And if you don't like phones, that's totally fine, We get it. Why not send us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.