Animals are amazing. You guys remember back when Discovery was our parent company and we all got DVD collection of Planet Earth? Was it called Daddy Davy narrating in his dults it tones right? Uh, this, this excellent documentary series is one of many things that inspired us a while back to ask a question, are there any unknown large animals out there? We know that there are new species of a lot of small animals discovered in the modern day, but what about the big stuff? Any big cats? You know? Any any um love craft? Yeah, lizards, love crafty monsters in the deep. And if so, why aren't we finding their pooper bones? That's the question. Yeah, Oh, I don't know. Let's get into it. From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, My name is no Guerrilla Boy Brown. They called me Ben you are you? And that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. That's a that's an interesting moniker and it's uh, guerrilla Boy has taken the office by storm. That's what my girlfriend calls me. Yeah, it's just weird that she does it in front of other people. But you know, if you're happy, you're happy. I think she means it as a compliment. I think so. I think because she says it with a note of admiration. It's because I'm really mad good at sign language. I thought it was a chest here. So we're talking today about something we've returned to often in the show, and that is cryptids. Right, we're let's be honest, folks, we're living in a world where there's ecological collapse. We do it in the movie trailer voice in a world on the verge of ecological collapse. Three men, four counting their super producer Tristan, and one gorilla boy. Wait now we have five people. Okay. So we've talked about this before, and one of the big quests for the human species has always been a quest of discovery, Right, what can we find at the edges of the map? The thing most people want to find, the real fun stuff would be, of course, acrypted. But what is encrypted? Yeah, that's a fun term, but what does it mean? Right? Well, it's an umbrella term that describes a whole host of different types of creatures that are all rumored to exist. This is very important that it's rumored. There's no scientific proof of the existence of these creatures. The fascination it still remains right, and the study of cryptods is known as cryptozoology. Gosh, that's fun to say. And uh, we have an much older exploration of this. One of the first episodes we ever did was an update or not an update, I guess it was an exploration of our videos on cryptozoology. Ben, Yeah, Cryptozoology show notes, just for a quick recap to give everybody the lay of the land. Oh and Matt, you have your mothman shirt on today. I just noticed that I did on purpose. You got gorilla boy, Mothman. Tristan will get to you. I didn't mean that to sound so menacing. We'll find a nickname. But your next buddy, your next Uh. We gotta let the bad rout of the bag here. Cryptozoology is, at the very least a controversial field. The vast majority of scientists and any other related subjects zoologists, biologist, ecologists, and so on. I think that cryptozoology is essentially a pseudo science. Yeah. A lot of times these scientists with the capital as believe that the cryptozoologists suffer from confirmation bias, from believing so wholeheartedly that these things exist. They will take evidence that they find and kind of make it tell the story that they wish it to be, sort of cherry pick like, like if I like a zoologist would say, there are rumors of gorilla boy out in the wild, let's see if it's true, and their critique is that their criticism rather is that a cryptozoologist instead would say, I know, guerrilla boy is real. I will find the evidence that supports this. Yeah, it's that whole getting caught up in the thrill of the hunt thing. Then, and of course, throughout the centuries, various experts have investigated claims of previously unidentified animals, and every year the search for new organisms continues. But but what sort of animal would be considered cryptids? I mean, you can describe almost anything you know as a crypto that fits in the following categories. So we've got um subjects of eyewitness accounts, historically located creatures from specific region or regions, and most importantly, they are they have to be you know, this is kind of the kicker. They have to not be acknowledged by the scientific community. Yes, there's not imaginary. Yeah so they So we would have, you know, we would have like old man Frederick saying, I've lived in these woods for now in fifty years, and every moon of this night the skunk cape comes out of the swamps. He does come out down swamps. I'll tell you what. When I'm on that porch sitting out there, you're here to whisper to win you hear them, hear them, grasshopper. Well, it is getting weird this accident right here with me, with me out as. I want to take a moment to say, this is one of those things, the things that I just said, them being imaginary, where some folks ding us or me or whatever for like not believing fully in the things that we describe. That's not the point. This stuff is fascinating to think about, and there are obviously more compelling examples than others. I just want to throw that out there. I don't think that that's fine. Large cryptids are imaginary, but I just think it's funny that one of the categories that they need to fit in is that they are not scientifically acknowledged to exist, right, And it's a weird thing because once they are acknowledged, then they become no longer a cryptod. So this this weird umbrella term applies more to the position of a proposed organism, right, because once it's a genuine, scientifically acknowledge organism, then it's just it's not mysterious anymore. Goes in the books of Creatures, it's just a stink bird skunk Cape. Skunkcape is a crypted isn't it a great name? So the outlines that Noel provided the categories there perfectly incorporate all the famous cryptids, you know, like the big blockbuster cryptids, big Foot, Locknest, Monster, Godzilla, Godzilla. Yeah, I don't know if that fits in, but maybe maybe Well Godzilla came from the ocean, right, and a creature of that size could easily could easily disappearance to the ocean. And I want to say too real quick, not to get too derailed, but some of the most bizarre and fascinating creatures that border on seeming as close to like extraterrestrials we're ever going to get come from the deep deep I wish. I don't have you ever seen that Planet Earth episode about the deep dark Ocean. It's insane they live. They've got like weird like little lamps hanging on their foreheads, so they look like something out of a nightmare. And they're very otherworldly because they exist under such extreme pressures and they have that adaptation that allows them to flourish more or less in this bizarre and lightless environment. When we're gonna get to that a little later. I believe yes because this I'm glad that we said this, because this definition also incorporates, along with the really strange things like gigantic snakes, dragons, were like dinosaur populations, and other allegations, the definition of crypto also incorporates animals that you might not think of, like relic populations of animals that were formerly thought to be extinct, such as the sea camp Right, everybody thought, well, everybody in here we go with the scientific racism as well. Everybody in Western Europe. I thought that the seely canth was extinct despite the vast amounts of native populations going oh yeah, that fish has always been here and it sucks to eat. But then you know these scientists finger quote air quote discovered it and now it's not a crypto. This could also be animals that look very similar to known creatures, yet are different to enough to qualify as their own species. That's happening a lot with DNA testing now. But let's face it. Let's wake up, smell the folders, face the facts. The holy Grail of possible cryptics has never been a small new species of bottle nose blue fly or the cousin of the finch with a separate color palette. Oh no, the more things change, the more they stay the same. And that means what people want to find. Our big creatures, the Godzillas, the Godzilla's king congs, right, the Catholics. You know, Cathula is kind of a proto Godzilla in a lot of ways. I mean, he came from beneath the ocean's deep and rose up to crush us. All yeah, but no, nobody wants to find that, right, Please tell me nobody wants to find the one who won't be named? Obviously. I'm a huge fan of Lovecraft, uh in the at least the mythology, but none of nothing about his real life. He was terrible, terrible person. But okay, but just to get back on here, Yeah, the idea of this creature is that it causes other utter madness. Right, that's the idea of just even thinking about it causes madness. So why would you want to find one or it or he whatever? Today? Do you push the boundaries? All right? Let's be more hardcore. What is life if not to be lived? All right? Right? Did our fortune cookie arguments persuade you? I'm persuaded. You're right, though. People want big animals. People want to find krackings, abominable snowfolk, thunderbirds, dragons, dinosaurs if you say snowfolk like that. Yeah, And so okay, it's not just a bunch of snow dudes out there in the h alaas one would hope. But that's a big question. Are there really any large animals out there? And if so, how can we find them? But we find them through an impulse that has been with our species as long as we've been around, as this search for other life, whether it's on our planet or elsewhere. So the current age of man anthroposyn puts our species in a uniquely fortuitous and particularly perilous time um in our search for undiscovered species. So, due to the spreading of our species across areas, vast areas of the world previously forbidden to us. We've got the technology and the wherewithal to go to places we would not have normally been able to go in our formative times. Yeah. So as a result of that propagation, we're also kind of collapsing ecosystems, not of no, yeah, totally doing that thing at a alarming and dare we say catastrophic rate, which means that we are totally racing ourselves to discover animals that may already be extinct by the time we get to them. Yeah, so what I think that's a very very good points. So we're more capable of going to the hinterlands of Antarctica, right to the bottom of the sea floor or yeah, that's perfect too deep, too deep, caves, you know, and and to space to all these places we could ordinarily never go. So we're more likely to find stuff that's there if we get to it before our pollution does. Essentially, we're also very much in the dark about just how many species remain out there in the wild. This blows my mind. We don't know exactly what we will discover in the insect realm. There are hundreds of thousands of unidentified species, and the brutal math of the equation ensures that many of them will vanish before anyone finds and identifies them, including like native populations. So not just you know, Ivory Tower scientists, but tribes that are largely uncontacted may not even be able to identify all of the varieties of moth in their region. That's weird to think about. In the Census of Marine Life estimated that Earth is home to about eight point seven million species, and give or take one point three million. You know, you gotta when you make a big number like that and you're estimating the number of species, especially how many could or could not exist, you gotta give it a bit of an error margin, mayor a little wiggle room. But but this number ultimately breaks down to six point five million different species on land and two point two million different species in the ocean. And if we count microbes, my goodness, that number skyrockets. So let's jump to when researchers at Indiana University estimated that there might be between one hundred billion and one trillion species of microbes out there just kicking in with us, just hanging out, you know, on our skin, just on that leaf over there. It's like, if you ever get a chance to see those that microscopic photography of gut bacteria or of like these various micro's and I mean it's like fractals inside fractals. It's like these worlds within worlds that we cannot possibly even contemplate. Like that's insane to me. And then you think about our position in you know, the universe and the planet, and then as it relates to that, it's just like more than more than the mind can even read. If you have not read the Filth, read the graphic novel The Filth today it also brings to mind supersymmetry. You know, when you consider that are each of our bodies are comprised more of other life forms than human cells were outnumbered. I think that there are five bacterial cells for every human cell your body. But the size ratio is, yes, very different, right, but but you're it's absolutely right with the numbers. Human cells are are much larger, and it's strange, you know, we're all agglomerations of things. We're all much more like cities in our way than we are individuals. But we also shouldn't forget that there is still a ton of Earth left to explore. I mean, technological advancements have been just huge in this respect. Satellites led to our drones all given us this glimpse into hitherto unexplored regions remote you know, um inhospitable that we never would have been able to lay eyes on, let alone take readings from and learn about the makeup of the you know, materials and the climates in the various conditions of these places. Yes, but again, what about the big stuff? Could a large animal, let's say, the size of a labrador, about a labord doodle? Um, all right, yeah, I can do labordoodle, a labradoodle or up or maybe maybe even you know what, let's raise the stakes something the size of a horse. Could it remain undiscovered for the entire span of human civilization. That's a tough one, and I think we're gonna have to look at that after a quick word from our sponsor, you rascal, here's where it gets crazy. So what's the answer. It's possible, it really is. Yeah. No, uh, well, we're a family show, so no, no tuckus, no doubt. I used to have a boss who said, I want you to give me the straight poop, give me the dish, you know, give me the stuff. The truth, give me the straight whoop? Was it a cool? Boss? Now? But straight poops are pretty cool? Frame. I think it's like a northern thing. He was from, like Pennsylvania, well right in And let us know if you're from a far of the world where people say straight poop, but it really is, we'll give you the straight poop here. It really is possible that entire group of large animals has escaped the notice of humanity at large. And just a side note, I think I'm gonna stick with tuckas so every time I was gonna say a wait, is tuckis? But is that what that means? Okay, I'm gonna you know what, I've committed to it. I'm just gonna I'm gonna ride this pony into the sunset. It right, the scripted into the sunset. There are big obstacles to this concept, even though it is possible. Um, we have to consider something that we've looked at in the past when we specifically examined, uh say, bigfoot or large the rumors of dinosaurs and African forest. The thing is, a large animal needs a lot of energy and it would probably have a measurable impact on an observable ecosystem that would be in proportion to or commensurate with its size. So one great example of this is whenever a whale dies and it sinks to the seabed, and it becomes this sort of funereal, rotting oasis for the creatures of the deep. Yeah, it's like that story that came out not too long ago out of Indonesia where there was this these photographs and video of what looks like a lockness monster type thing or some kind of crazy you know, sea elephant or something, and it turns out it's just the carcass, the gelatinous, molten carcass of a baling whale, I believe. But it starts to contort and stretch and do all this bizarre stuff. And yeah, whale skulls would look rather odd when all the stuffs peeled back from it, right. I think that's a very it's a very polite way to say. I will I will say that they look fascinating and terrifying in a way. Imagine looks. Imagine living thousands of years ago and then discovering these bones that would wash up on shore. It's interesting though. In an article and Live Science relating to the sighting I was just talking about a whale biologist by the name of Alexander Worth. There's an interesting quote here that I think pertains to our discussion. He says, quote, there's lots of stuff in the ocean that we don't know about, but there's nothing that big that remains unknown. M That's yeah, And that's the thing because that's a controversial. Um, that's still a point of contention, obviously in one man's opinion. But it is an expert. He's not like just some guy who's hanging out selling couzies and speedoes. He's not a hobbyist at he's that wail enthusiasts. Yeah, it's it's true though. It's Uh, it's true on land that large animals would have likely already been observed by humans, or in areas where they would come into contact with humans, they might have already been hunted to death, died due to pollution, or become unable to compete for their normal breeding territory, their food of choice, other resources. Uh, this happens. Look at the wooly mammoth. Uh. They may also become unable to accomplish annual migrations, and this is an effect another death sentence, just a slower one. Yeah, just the really fasket back to the amount of energy that encrypted would were choir. So there are a couple of things that just come come to my mind when we're thinking about this. So if you're thinking about a singular animal, right, and then you think about how much food that I am over will require, you have to think, is in an herbivore an omnivore? Does it eat primarily meat? And then think about how much energy, like we said, that would require to eat. Then imagine this thing isn't alone. If there is a big foot, there is a family of bigfoots. Unless they're you know, they live forever, right, or whatever animal it is a horse sized creature, there's gonna be a herd at least of them that has survived over the century. It reminds me of that band name. And you will know us by our trail of dead, and then you know us by the trail of the dead. Well, yeah, sure, And maybe it's just grass that's getting eaten or some plant that exists out in the middle of nowhere, But you know there's gonna be a big hole of resources where these things survive. And despite all these problems, all these very valid let's call them cons to the argument for a large animal. UH. We have one big pro on the other side. That is that the world is enormous. There are still a few places where it's possible that humanity could discover something in the size of a labrador a labradoodle or larger. In fact, it's more possible now than at any other point in human history. So we can look at different regions of the world UH and see whether what would be the most or least likely to harbor an undiscovered large life form. So our first stop on this journey would be to the jungles and the massive forests of the planet. Once these things span entire continents, they just nothing but trees as far as the eye could see. But now, because of manufacturing and agricultural techniques, these things have been drastically reduced both in in terms of their size um and the bio diversity within their ecosystem. So a lot of the animals have been dying off. We are inside a mass die off right now of species, and we've been kind of ramping up to that in the past few hundred years. Paleontologists will tell you that we are we are officially in the sixth great extinction in the history of this planet, like dinosaur leveling stuff. You know, um, maybe not as sudden as impact events, right, but in many ways as as lethal. And this is not like, this is not in any way involved with um political standpoints or ideologies. This is this is just hard science. There are resources that we use that we extract and one of those is would and trees, and that's what we've been doing for a long time, and humanity has been expanding. It's just kind of the way we've been doing. I'm sort of torn on the point to where people say that we should stop as a species from pursuing agriculture, right, because it keeps people alive. So at what point do we stop letting people eat, you know what I mean? Or stop letting people reproduce, yeah, or stop letting people choose what they want to eat? Right? Because if the entire world went vegetarian, there's that argument that, uh, the there would be less pollution and that there would also be more food for people. There's vertical farms, man, we gotta start getting those. Yeah. But I am a I am just a walking garbage disposal. I haven't really met food that I wouldn't he I've met something that I didn't like. You have a whole show where you just eat trash food. Anybody who's listening to this and doesn't have access to the house to works Facebook page. I just have to throw this out here right now. Ben and Uh someone who's been on our show before, Lauren Vogelbaum. They do a show called snack Stuff, and yesterday during the live broadcast, Ben not only did he eat canned rattlesnake, and Lauren both they both did. Uh. They took a shot of rattlesnake canned juice at the end of like a gravy disgusting. That is foul. The look on poor Ben's face it was really bad. So the rattle sneak itself doesn't taste bad that the texture is really similar to like pulled pork. I can, Yeah, can canned stuff weird to me. Potted meat can stuff in general. I mean, beans are okay, i'ltic beans, but potted meat now, Yeah, it's always it's always fascinating when you see that stuff in the grocery store and it's not refrigerated and you read the ingredients, you check the expiration date, and you're like, wow, this could be it on the shelf for another four years. Yeah, and and it'd be fine, right, it would be no worse than it was. But but yes, I we do have that show with our esteemed uh friend and colleague and also co host of a new show called food Stuff, Lauren vogelbaumb So do check that out when you get a chance. All right, let's get back to the jungle. Welcome to the jungle. Uh. There are problems with investigating allegations of cryptids in the jungle. Let's take the world's largest tropical rainforce at the time of this recording, it's the Amazon, and it's been the site of hundreds of cryptid sightings or you know, eyewitness accounts. Here's what makes it tough to hunt for cryptids in a place like the Amazon. The jungle is hungry, it is. It aggressively devours buildings, structures, roads without constant maintenance. Um, it's very difficult to well, it's very difficult with constant maintenance to keep man made structures around and viable and without it, boom, the jungle just swallows them up. Yeah. I can totally identify with this because we just had ivy growing growing in our backyard, and every couple of weeks I'd have to go back there and take care of it, or that thing would just get overrun with just some simple ivy. From here in the Southeastern United States, very uh, certain plants are very motivating, you know. Uh. Kud Zoo is the legendary example here in the Southeast, but that still has very little on the Amazonian jungle. Entire cities have been lost in the Amazon and only recently found again with the use of sophisticated laser based surveillance technology like light art like no one mentioned earlier. So if you're if you don't have the resources to go to an isolated place and maintain a life long enough to maintain a structure and a like a an operation long enough to observe this stuff, your chances have seen anything are pretty small, especially if you're looking for something specific. You might be having a needle in a haystack moment. And given the vast biodiversity, it's also possible that people who believe they've seen a cryptid are misidentifying another known creature. Here's a question, you guys. On the movie Anaconda, where the snake John that spoiler yep? Is it? Yep? Oh? What a snake? A movie with the name Anaconda has a snake in it? Well, no, the giant snake, but specifically the character. I didn't say what it did after h John, boy, that's the twist, now you do. We've been over the statue of limitations. It's a crap movie anyway, Come on, no Mike sation though, as like, would an absurdly large version of a known species be considered a cryptid? Yeah? I would. I would argue yes, because it would be. It's it's an interesting question. So is it an individual that's a very large anaconda or is it a group of anacondas that are that are growing? And reptiles are weird too, because some reptiles will just continue to grow, just spooky stuff. Yeah, but I think you know, that's a good question. I would say, I want to throw that to the listeners too. So ladies, gentlemen, and cryptids, if you're in the audience, let us know what you think is is outsized a very large version of a known animal? Does that count as a encrypted? I would say I'm tempted to say yes, and can oh boy, thank you can if it's encrypted rights. Despite the difficulty in establishing your research outpost and the ease of misidentification, new species are still being found in the world's forest and jungles and may of researchers found a brand new primate in Angola. Think about that, a brand new primate that is a large animal. It's not huge, but it's at least, you know, it's larger than a little bird. They're literally calling it the pigmy galago, so well, that means they're calling it a pigmy. It's not like some ironic little john things or something. It's small. Yeah, it's only six point five inches long, so it isn't a large animal, just a undiscovered one. Sure, but you know one person six point five inches when you think about microbes and you think about insects. I'm still saying it's big. Yeah, it's big, but it's not labradoodle. But let's let's continue our search. Let's visit some other biomas. What about mountains and deserts. Okay, let's get this one out of the way. Deserts are some of the most brutal locations in the entire world on this planet. If you're in a desert. There's not much worse places you can be to live as an animal. You gotta put up with a whole lot of stuff. You have to adapt like crazy. Deserts aren't always hot, Like to think about the empty quarter in Saudi Arabia or part of the parts of the Saharta which most people think of. You know, those are those are hot deserts. But Antarctica has desert uh in it. Yes, if living was a video game, deserts would be the stages that count as hard mode, oh for sure. So temperature is not the primary defining trait of a desert. UH. Area with little vegetation is a desert, and fewer species of animals exists in deserts in comparison to other biomas. One famous cryptic described UH in the desert to Mongolia is the Mongolian death worm, which the phase I was totally obsessed with this thing. Ye man, it sounds like a sandworm type thing, but like the guys from Tremors, it's kind of like, yeah, it's kind of like a smaller version of that. But they think that. People say that it can spit acid or is coated with some sort of acid. But but I you know, it's a very remote area, but it's it's tough to think that there hasn't been one found, you know, unless it's maybe its body is completely cartilagenous, so when it dies, it doesn't leave anything, right, that's a possibility. I don't know. It just returns back to the sand, to the sand from which it came. So cryptids are a large cryptid is probably not located in the desert. Mountains are a different story. Some animals thrive in the heights, and although we know they exist, it's tough to find them. Like it's exceedingly air for human beings. To get a glimpse of the Himalayan snow leopard, which is a real thing. Yeah, yeah, it exists, and they're lurking out there. But the times that they come out, uh, you know, there aren't humans around a lot of times. They're very wary of other animals and they were pretty well camouflaged. Right, And is the aren't they designed more or less to blend in with you know, heavy snows designed design intelligently? Yeah. Yeah, this is one of the places where there are heavily region based reports of the abominable snowfolk. The Jettie Well it's so isolated right when you're when you're talking about the Himalayan mountains, new types of bears and goats, and not all mountains are created equally, you know, So you're absolutely right about the Himalayas. We also would have to consider, you know, more thoroughly explored mountains in Western Europe probably don't have any large unidentified animals because that area is so heavily populated by humans comparatively speaking. But there's another more exciting thing. We're talking about mountains deserts. We have a very special case caves. So I was thinking before when we talked about how there's probably not a large undiscovered animal in you know, the Sahara or a sand desert, what I should have said was on the surface, because caves are a very special case. They're often removed from the planet's main source of energy, the Sun. We're big fans of Planet Earth. We I think we mentioned that earlier the show, right um, in the episode on caves. One thing that's very interesting the original Planet Earth is they talked about how the entire ecosystem is supported by guano by you know that I guess still stick with tucks straight bat poop straight bat poop because they fly out and uh eat creatures or eat things that grow in accordance with sunlight and other other parts of the food chain. And so now the subterranean system is one step further away from the source of energy, and this deficit of available energy would ordinarily mean no large creature could exist, But there's another option to consider the Earth's internal heat source, the energy that powers geysers and volcanoes. There hasn't been a large living crypto discovered in cave systems, at least not yet, but we do know for sure the world beneath our feet teams with undiscovered, very strange life. As we record this podcast, spelunkers and scholars alike are still discovering extremely strange creatures thousands of feet beneath the ground. And yeah, a lot of them are blind, like just no eyes, atrophy, spooky spooky stuff. Well, it's a difficult thing to get down very far into the earth. It's not easy to do, and it takes a lot of equipment and specialized training to do that. So you can't just have a mass search, you know, throughout the globe, everything cave cave in. That's a possibility of flooding dangerous. One of the most dangerous pursuits actually is cave diving, and apparently there's still pockets of caverns that are only accessible through a long underwater route. And then these these ecosystems within these caverns function kind of like did you ever see Do you guys ever see those little glass balls that have like plants growing in them and their own water system. It functions like that in sort of a bubble in an envelope, and it's completely possible that something lives there. But when we're speaking of things that look very alien to us normal us surface walkers, day walkers, we have one big area left to explore. We'll get to it after a word from our sponsor. So I alluded to this earlier in the show. Is one of my favorite episodes of Planet Earth. Of all of the ecosystems on this planet, the ocean gives us the best odds for discovering a large cryptid like a Godzilla. Um experts believe that we've explored going on five per cent of the world seabed, and too many experts and amateurs arelike this vast unknown stretch of the world poses the greatest possibility discovering new large animals to wit sea monster. Yeah, man, And we've been finding some of these things over the years, and you know, just in the recent past, we found the colossal squid. We found a whale that had a beak. No it was not it wasn't really a beak, but it was the beaked whale. Yeah, and then there were we we know there are other things to discover. So you've probably if you were a fan of this show, that means you would probably like us gone down the rabbit hole before where you look up mysterious carcasses washed ashore. Uh. Noel pointed out earlier that whales washed ashore pretty often, and Matt, you and I have talked about this off air. A lot of those carcasses look radically different from a living whale and have often been misidentified as something else. But even with that being said, there are genuine accounts of experts not being able to identify the thing that washed up and just saying, we don't know. Maybe it's some kind of deep sea love crafty and shark. Yeah, maybe it's a scific rim style kaiju. I don't know, man, Maybe got dislodged when a ship sank or something who knows, And just like life and cave systems, there's one big objection to the idea of a large creature living in the deep that is energy. So we talked about some of those really strange like deep sea angler fish and tiny um tiny octopoid looking things. Uh, the truth of the matter is that the abyssial plane, under that immense pressure that Matt mentioned, animals are going to tend to be smaller as a rule, and they're also further away from that source of energy sunlight. But also, similar to the gave idea, we do know of one very bizarre feature of the ocean floor geothermal events. So these geothermal events emit intense heat from the Earth and they act as a kind of underwater oasis um for extreme aphiles and just possibly other larger forms of life. So this means, to steal a line from Dumb and Dumber, we're saying, there's a chance there is a chance that there's large undiscovered life. Not a very good chance, not not really good odds if you're gambling. But if something large and undiscovered exists, it almost certainly would have to exist in the ocean. Yeah, and it have to be able to hide or at least conceal itself in some way to evade all of the different tracking techniques that we have. Where you can look at the bottom of the ocean floor, anything that is existing there, the the fishing, the technology that large fisheries use, you can you can see what's on the bottom of the floor. And then there's this is just a brainstorm thing. That's entirely speculation on my part. But there is a possibility that other forms of life would be discovered in the deep by militaries using submarines, and then they would choose not to reveal it because doing so would also reveal the technology they used to find a thing. But you have a certain level that they're at, you know, where they're able to or maybe even where they're operating. Right, it's like, what is this what what is this Russian sub doing in the Indian Ocean? Yeah, you know what I mean. Uh, it's so, And that's purely speculation on my part. That might as well be the plot for a dime store novel. Writing it down, you should hop on that, man, should I should in general hop more often? Yeah? Yeah, And then I think you're you're selling it a short dime store. No, that is that is a potential best selling well, thank you so much. The collapse of oceanic ecosystems. As we said, the key here is that this becomes a time sensitive pursuit. Humanity's explorers are racing against humanity's pollution. So if something big exists out there, it's also tragically likely that it will be extinct before we actually see it. Jeez, that's a that's a tough thoughts. We've all seen images I'm assuming of is it the Pacific trash? Yeah, and all that. I mean, that's just it's hard to know that that's happening, And in some way, I guess we're all just contributing to that. It's a care time will come. Yeah, it feels like it's getting here. What goes around comes around. I like. I like both of those things, like a trash more text, it feels split. See, I feel like a rose about a forn So I'm trying to figure out why this would happen all of us. We hope that you enjoyed this exploration, and if you are interested in cryptozoology, please do check out our earlier videos and podcast. We have a very special announcement for you at the end of the show, a little bit of a teaser if you will. But before that, enough about us, what about you? Shot at Corners. Our first shout out today comes from Jenna, who wrote to us after watching etcht In's Secret Our Georgia Guidestone's documentary on Amazon. If you haven't seen it yet, do it now. Jenna had some very interesting ideas about the future of humanity, but more importantly, she had a fantastic episode suggestion. So Jenna says, a person I think would be interesting to explore in a podcast is the UNI bomber ted Kazinski. He convinced the FBI to publish his manifesto against the system in the Washington Post. It is the single day when the most newspapers were sold so he would stop the bombs being sent through the mail. He convinced the FBI to publish his manifesto against the system in the Washington Post, and that happened to be the day when they sold the most newspapers to that point. And that's what she says. I'm not I haven't. We haven't confirmed that independently, but it wouldn't surprise me if that were very close to the case, and he did this so that he would basically he held them hostage more or less, that he would stop sending bombs in the mail if they would agree to publish his manifesto. Um. It led to his arrest and his court appointed attorneys wanted to plead insanity, so Kazinski fired them and wanted to speak for himself. UM. He did have several degrees though, and we're in law. Um. Yet he was forced into a plea deal because the FBI didn't want the public to see how logical he was. Interesting perspective. Um, he now has several books published. On a side note, it was three guns that killed jfk Okay, all right, no, no further there. Thanks for the great podcast, Thanks for the interesting perspectives. Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a very interesting point that I think would make a a good topic for examination in an episode. Let us know if you agree with Jenna and would like us to delve into the biography of the Union bomber along with his motivations and legal proceedings, because he very much does believe there's stuff they don't want you to know. Our next shout out goes out to Dannara, who sent us a message to quote. Chime in, Oh excuse me, chime in about our serial killers on the Loose, part two episode, specifically about the Oakland County child kill Yeah, I remember this one. Okay, so Dinara says, my memories are fuzzy, But I grew up in Detroit. My dad had been a d A, a district attorney in Wayne County. That's Detroit City. Oakland County is the next county to the north. I was about eight years old when the killings took place. We never once called him the babysitter. The grown ups called him quote the snow killer, because they always found the kids posed as snow angels the night after a new snowfall. US kids called him the snow angel, mostly in whispers. My dad and his family were staunchly Catholic. Grandfather did pr public relations work for the diocese for free. Dad did legal work for the diocese, also for free. This matters because Dad was having a conversation with one of the cops involved and this subject came up. The cop was spitting mad because they knew who did it and they couldn't touch him. Okay, that's news to me. He was a Catholic priest. Dad didn't believe it, neither did grandfather. Okay, that just pulling out of the listener mail really fast. I had not seen that anywhere in the research. But that's, you know, fascinating. I'm gonna look into that now. We're going back in. The priest got hit by a car and died, and the killings stopped once the snow started falling the next year and there were no bodies. Dad said, we didn't have to go to church anymore. Grandfather had stopped going over the summer, and they both cut off all contact with the Catholic clergy, even their best friends. Neither of them ever talked about it. Geez. Okay, So on top of his legal career, Dad wrote books crime novels. When he found out he was dying, he started writing The Snow Killer, and unfortunately he died before finishing it. Geez, this is this is fascinating information. Thank you for writing in dinner, because we didn't find in the course of the research we're doing, uh, information about Catholic priests being involved. No, not at all, and a lot of that stuff. I never saw the snow Killer mentioned in any of the articles that were written at the time. So I don't know. News to me. Thank you so much for writing. And we have one more shout out today is to Brent. Brent says, guys, just listen to the Red Mercury episode. A couple of points. You mentioned the possibility of red mercury being a code name for something else. There is a precedent for this in the nuclear community. During World War Two, uranium was always referred to by the code name copper. So how did they refer to element twenty nine actual copper? It was honest to god copper. Also, you're right, buying a pig in a poke as buying something site unseen, often a dog or a cat, rather than an actual pig. Thus, inadvertent revealing the scam was letting the cat out of the bag. Keep it going. Thank you for the etymology lessons there, Brent. That's pretty awesome talking about connecting dots. Yeah, I think we're gonna stick stick with Badger. So I've never bought a dog in a bag, no, or a pig. Nol is nodding in a very like sympathetic way right now. Well, I mean, I don't know. It just seems like a real stretch to agree to buying a creature sight unsea. I mean, what if it turns out to be some sort of bizarre acid spitting cryptid that as soon as you open that draw string that jumps right out and you know, melts your face off with its acid venom should make a we should do a p s A against buying things, uh, buying things in bags without looking inside the bag. Start because I have a kid, and there's a big thing the kids love these days is these little things you buy, these little trinkets where you don't know what's in it. It's like it looks like a little yogurt cup, it's got this little like an Asian kind of drink. It that it's a stamp or a lip balm or something like that. And the whole joy of it isn't not knowing what it is. But at least you know that it's not gonna eat your face off. It's not a living creature. That's That's honestly why I love magic cards. When you buy the packs and you don't know what the rare is. Maybe one do you'll get a live pig? Oh I homely hope. So, speaking in fantastic segways, this concludes our go, but not our show. Visit our website stuff they don't want you to know. To check out any and all of the episodes that Matt, Noel and I have done in previous days. Can I do a plug? Yeah, show, it's not ours, but we participated in it. It's um. I don't know if you guys are familiar with the wonderful wonderful publication and website Mental Floss. Well, the two dudes Will and Man guests that actually founded that publication work for us now not us stuff. They don't want you to know us. You know the greater how stuff works. They work, they do work with us. They are lovely, lovely dudes. And they have a new show called part Time Genius that Ben helped editorially with. I did the audio mixing and the music and sound design, and Tristan who's producing the show, did the editing, and I did some promotional videos did Indeed, we all had actually all fingers in that particular Batcher Pot. It takes a it takes a village, and we think that you were really going to enjoy this show. The guys worked really hard on it. They are brilliant. Uh, they're far, far too humble in my opinion, and I used to funny funny story. I've been a fan for years from the mental Flus days. I have an autographed book of theirs. Wow, it's a it's strange, but yeah, the show is out now. I think they released four episode and one goes so you've got like some nice material to dig through. There about forty five minutes apiece and there are four on the channel right now. Part Time Genius on Apple, podcast, Stitcher, or anywhere else you get your audio delights in One warning, if you hear the theme song for Part Time Genius, it will not leave your ears for many a day. Uh made its awesome, but man, that thing is a jammer. So let us know what you think of Part Time Genius. If you like our show, you will love there's as well. And that's the end of this classic episode. If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can get into contact with us in a number of different ways. One of the best is to give us a call. Our number is one eight three three st d w y t K. If you don't want to do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email. We are Stuff they don't want you to know is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.