The Life of Lynn Conway

Published Jan 26, 2022, 4:25 PM

Bridget joins us once again to discuss the overlooked contributions Lynn Conway made to the tech world, and how transphobia almost erased them.

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Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to Stephane. Never told you protection of I Heart Radio. And today we are thrilled once again be joined by the fabulous Bridgetad coworker friend. Yes, first recording session of the New year. Oh that's right, happy first recording. How was your your weirdo Christmas? How was your New year? Bridget weird Christmas was super fun? Thank you for asking. It involved all the staples. I hoped it had drunkenness, crazy outfit, fire hits, dancing um. But then sadly, right after that, I got covid. Oh I know, I am recovering from covid um, which it was not how I planned to spend the are part of the holiday. So my New Year's was just really spent sweating and moaning, not for any kind of fun reason, because I was in discomfort. That turns so quickly. Wow, Well, I'm glad you're okay. How are you feeling today? Much better? I mean I unfortunately I got COVID before I was able to be boosted. And so if anyone is listening and they are like, I'll take in their sweet time to get their booster shot, don't do that um my partner also got COVID and he is he was boosted and recovered so much quicker than me. So I'm feeling a lot better. But it really does linger, Like don't let anybody tell you that. Oh, Macron is like, oh it's very mild, like that might mean you don't need to go to the hospital, but it definitely like lingers and you feel like garbage for quite a while, right, I mean that's the report I've been hearing, is like everybody saying it was a mild case, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're not acted or asymptomatic. Literally you're just not at the hospital and you may have the hundred and four favor all the problems and it may last longer than the flu. But yeah, it sounds like being boosted as the way to go. So sorry, Bridget, Yeah, it's okay. I mean, it could have been a lot worse, and I'm I'm happy to be on the men, but yeah, it was a good excuse to stay in bed and watch binge watch shows, so I was happy about that. Well, yeah, it's funny because Samantha and I it was like right before all the cron like we you know, heard about it, but it was before everyone was like, oh my god, it's everywhere. We went to the movies, um and we saw The Matrix and Spider Man. We did a double feature and I after that the news came out everyone had at kron and I was convinced I had it, even though I had no proof, like there's no symptoms or anything. But I essentially stayed in on New Year's as I find I'm not going anywhere I'm gonna see anybody. And it was actually very lovely. It was nice, right, I mean to the point that I think for introverts like myself is now just like okay, well I might have COVID, sooy, I can't I can't go, so sorry, I don't know, such a good, ready made excuse like I might have COVID. I'm worried about COVID. Thinking about COVID like such a good excuse to not have to do things you don't really want to do. I'm like, this is how I live in my comfy forever. I keep mentioning comfies and they are not a sponsor. They need to be a sponsor at this point because I'm always cold and I'm looking at you bridget because you're actually in sleeveless and I'm like, oh my god, and it's sunny where you're sitting as where we are in the darkness and depths of despair, apparently in my comfy but I'm like, wow, this is a drastic difference between us and you. So I am like the other side of the coin, which is that I live in an old apartment and we have old school like radiator heat. We're not really able to control, so uncomfortably warm in my bood window open, even though there's snow on the ground. That is very, very different. We got like a hint of snow in Atlanta and cranking up my radiator. I also have a radiator that I it's tricky to control, but I think I got it figured out. You open the one in the bathroom halfway and you're going to be fine. Yeah, has radiator heat like you have. You have like a weird mechanism of life. You gotta do this, gotta do that. A window like it's it's a delicate art. Yeah. When I first moved in here, I was like, I asked my landlord, what is that? And he looked at me. He said, it's a radiator. You're gonna have to figure that out, like, oh, okay, yes, well okay, now that we've checked in, Bridget, I am so excited with the topic you bought today because I didn't know this story and it's an amazing story. Um, so you tell us what we're going to be talking about today, Yes, I'm so excited to. Um, you know one of my favorite things in the world. That's really talking about overlooked figures in history, the history of technology and the Internet, of which there are many, and I feel like they can really tell us a lot about how our identity is often determined who gets remembered and who gets overlooked, even when someone is responsible for pretty much changing the world, like the person that we're going to be discussing today, Lynn Conway. Lynn Conway is an amazing historical figure. She's still alive, but she essentially changed the world. She is the reason why we have things like personal computers, smartphones, tablets, iPads, all of that, and yet her story almost went overlooked because of transphobia. Right yeah, and it is quite the story and quite the journey. Um, and still still alive today, so that's awesome. Um, still making changes also awesome, But can we get into some of the early history here. Yes. So Lynn Conway she was born in nineteen thirty eight and was assigned mail at birth, but from an early age she knew there was more to her story as it pertained to her gender. U. Her mom was studying anthropology at Columbia, and she would flip through her mom's school textbook sort of looking for any kind of answers or perspectives that spoke to how she knew she was feeling. UM. And there's a really lovely profile of Lynn Conway in Michigan Engineering News, so definitely check that out. But in that profile, she says, it seemed like people in other cultures has found different ways to deal with what I knew I was feeling, but then that became scrambled. But the thought that what I was feeling was that I was gay, but no one ever talked about these things. Um. When Conway was fourteen, she read a new story about the former Army private Christine Jorgensen, who was the first person in the United States to publicly announce a gender transition, and that really changed everything for Lynn Conway. She said from reading that story she knew what she needed to do, like she realized, like I am going through the same thing, and this is what I want to do. When it really set her out on this journey to discover her identity. Wow, I really couldn't imagine in that date and time being in that place like it is difficult as it is today in Oh my god, I said, the year of being a part of the queer community in general, even no matter what, I just you know, not to put too much of my personal life out there. I just had a big discussion with my parents about acceptance of the queer community point blank, not not anything outside of not me coming out, just just what it was. And it was a little bit combative from my parents that just then trying to accept the queer community in general and talking about what that is in relation to their conservative ideas. So I can't imagine if those are the hard conversations we're having today, I can't imagine what it would have been like back then. So what was her coming of age story? Like, what what was it that we need to know of because I can't Again, like my heart just like is pounding at the idea of what she went through. Yeah, it's at that's such a good point. And when I was putting together this outline of her of her life, that was the thing that I kept getting struck by the ways in which we have come so far as a society in terms of accepting but also the ways in which we have a lot further to go as in terms of sort of accepting and supporting uh folks who are on our journey right And so um Conaway initially tried to transition while she was studying M I T in the fifties, and so she basically started taking hormones that she had procured on her own. And then she talked to a friend who was in medical school to see if he could help her connect to a doctor who might be able to help her. And this friend ended up taking her to a dean at the college, and that dean told her that she did not stop taking these hormones on her own, that she would end up at a mental institution. And this fear of being institutionalized and also arrested is something that really marked Lin Conway's life. You know, back then, you know, if you were if you were to you know, transition or Canadas trans in a lot of places, you could just be outright arrested, but also the threat of being institutionalized in a mental institution. And you know, I it's again, it's one of those things that it makes me so sad that even today there are people that equate being trans with being mentally ill or being a criminal. Like it's it's one of those things that obviously it was so salient to lind Conway back in the fifties, but it's not like we've unfortunately, it's not like we have completely moved beyond that, because there are certainly still people out there today who believe, oh, if you're trans, you belong in prison, you belong in an institution. You know, you're you're not quote unquote normal. And yeah, it's just is one of those ways that makes me, on the one hand, marvel at how far we've come, but also lament that we have so much further to go. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean just all of the laws we've seen pass, the antitrans laws, it's just ongoing ing, and it's this constant onslaught and you know, it's targeting in a lot of cases young young children, like people in schools, and it's so damaging and so toxic, and I can imagine for Conway, this that fear and being told by the Dean like this was a legitimate fear was a huge setback. Oh absolutely. I mean Lynn Connaway talks about her time at M I t as like fairly traumatic after this really disappointing current of events when she was trying to transition. Initially, she kind of just put transitioning at the back of her mind. She got married, she became a parent, she started working at IBM. Um At this time in Lynn's life, she from the outside seemed to kind of have a picture of perfect life. She was making major moves and innovations at IBM, which at the time was the seventh largest corporation in the whole world. And while she was working at IBM, by all accounts, she was kicking asked, you know, she invented a hardware protocol that enabled the out of order command processing most computers still rely on today. But all of this, all of this, these accomplishments, and all of this like fantastic domestic life that she that she seemed to be living, was put into jeopardy because of transphobia, and that transphobia would really alter the trajectory of her life. I can't imagine a person who has that much stress on in their lives and that much conflict being able to like, what would she have really accomplished if she was able to be fully accepted as who she was at that point in time. And you know, and the other thought is, like her friend really betrayed her. I can't imagine uh trying ever coming out again, or even questioning again, or even saying anything out loud because the person that she trusted literally ranted her out in order to have this agenda pushed against her, saying, nah, you better stay in the norm o a k A. What we think is normal, or you are going to be criminalized essentially for who you are. And I'm just like, uh everything, Uh yeah, That's something that I think about a lot when it when it comes to things like transphobia. You know how much brilliance does the world miss out on because of transphobia. Glynn Conaway accomplished a lot, but could she've accomplished so much more if she wasn't putting up with this? And so I think about transpolkes today, you know, the kinds of like ridiculous legislation that they have to spend their time combating the kinds of ridiculous myths and stereotypes and misinformation about who they are and their identities. If they didn't have to spend their time countering that kind of nonsense, what could they be accomplishing? And so I always wonder, not only is it completely unfair unacceptable that trans folks have to put up with that, but we all miss out, like we all miss out on contributions that can make our lives better or we're interesting and more creative when marginalized people are saddled with these kinds of you know, this kind of nonsense like an onslot of laws and misinformation about who they are, right, Yeah, I feel like that we talked about that a lot on here and all the things that you know, the stories that aren't even being told, and then that impacts what people think or who people think are doing in technology or Stanfield in general, um, who are making these these big moves and you know, still using this technology. That's if we don't know, we don't know about her and all Conway, even though she kind of put this transitioning on the back burner and never really left her mind, right, that's right. So eventually she learned about the pioneering gender transition work of Dr Harry Benjamin Um. He was a famous indo chronologist and sexologist who was really known for his clinical work with transpolkes. And she decided, I want to work with this doctor. This is the doctor who was going to help me. And this is something that I find so heartbreaking that was in that Michigan engineering profile I mentioned earlier, It sounds like Conway and her then spouse had really worked out like a solid plan of the logistics of how this transition was going to work for their family. They decided they were going to get a divorce and that Conway would start working with Dr Benjamin to transition, and that she was going to pay child support from this IBM salary that she had had, and they decided that she was going to stay in the lives of their children and that the children would call her aunt right, And so it sounds like as a family unit, they had really ironed out how this was going to work. And according to another really compelling piece I read in Forbes by Jeremy Alessandre, Conway's immediate family and IBM, like her coworkers at IBM, were actually pretty accepting and supportive of her desire to transition at first, like even though this was you know, the fifties, the sixties, like they were kind of okay with that and like we're supporting this choice. However, when IBM's corporate medical director learned that Conway was planning to transition in he told CEO Thomas J. Watson Jr. Who fired Conway to avoid the public embarrassment of employing a trans woman, and so all of this work that that Conway had done with her then spouse to to iron out the logistics of how this is going to work, you know, was basically pulled from under her. And this really, like it sounds like this was like a completely destabilizing thing in her life. Oh God, I mean yeah, absolutely. If you think you have a plan and excited about at least having um forward steps and then having something that is so traumatic that once again is betraying you essentially something that you are so excited about and not even excited about just trying to live your life as you truly are. I can't imagine how this would have just deflated you. I've I've been without a job, I've been fired, and that sense of self is gone and self worth feels like you're it's just a loss of yourself. So someone who can't even express themselves losing even more of themselves. Holy crap. And I can't on top of that, like this again, y'all, Like my Christmas was a doozy. But this again kind of comes back to my conversation with my pears of like, this is why these laws are important, This is why anti discrimination laws need to be in place. And when we talked about tugging at the strings, which is what is happening under the Supreme Court, which is what we're talking about every day. Still, um, these are things like this can happen, and it truly I can't imagine what the impact was for her to be fired during the middle of the things that she thought she could maybe finally find herself. Yeah, it's so sad. It really seems like it started like ad onward spiral in her life. You know, she had to divorce her spouse while losing her sole source of income, which you know, obviously, as you just described, like makes it that much more difficult when you your source of income has gone, your identity that was attached to having this like pretty big deal job being not just being taken from you in this way, but like your contributions. You know, she was someone who kicked ass, who really made a lot of contributions, and being fired like this like meeting those contributions and all of that work just sort of going overlooked because of transphobia. And so it really sounds like this like it was a really dark time for her. The California Social Services tried to keep her way from her kids, and Conway's then ex spouse decided that she could not have any contact with them because she was worried that if Conway was in her kid's life that they would be taken by the state. And at the time, her kids were just babies. They were two and four years old, And this sounds like something that really stuck with Conway. In this profile, she recalls that tore me up. Let me tell you, the hardest part about the whole thing was that I really felt like a mom to them. And again, just what a domino effect, a negative domino effect, being fired for being trans caused in her life, losing her income, losing that identity, breaking up her family, and she you know, she knew this was going to be a really tough process and She relied on her lessons that she had learned from this, like lifetime love of outdoor adventures like canoeing and rock climbing, to steady herself. She described it, Now, I had a plan to get across the river, she said. I could see the steps I had to make. I could see the dangers and how to protect against them. The only problem was I didn't know where I'd end up on the other side. So even though this had cost her her job, her family, her domestic life, she still continued to work with Dr Benjamin to transition right. And there were so many, as that quote described, challenges and obstacles beyond what we've already talked about, which is already a lot, so so, so so much. Um so, can you talk about some of the challenges that we're that conway faced around this transition, Absolutely so, as a lot of trans folks will probably tell you some of the logistics around transition. You know, things like changing your name, getting new identification and paperwork canna be a big part of navigating trans identity so that you can work and ear an income and have a bank account and get a place to live. Even today, this process is really complicated and sometimes like prohibitively expensive. Uh. And again I'm sad to say that not a lot. You know, it was hard back then, and unfortunately it's it's hard today. Unfortunately a lot of trans folks don't have the supporter resources they need to navigate it. According to the National Transgender Discrimination Survey, only one fifth of trans people who have transition have been able to update all of their ideas and records with their new gender, and one third have not been able to update any of their ideas or records. Um Luckily for Conway, she was able to use connections that Dr Benjamin had in Oakland, California to get it done quickly with as you might imagine, was really really important to avoid suspicion back then, because you know, it could easily turn unsafe if somebody suspected, you know that you were transitioning or that you were trans and so being able to navigate this quickly was of the utmost importance for her. She has this quote. She says, you were an undocumented alien from Mars. You don't have a birth certificate. How are you going to get a job. This was the sixties. You can think of it like being a spy in a foreign country. If you were found out, you'd be dealt with immediately. If not by the police, then my people on the streets. Um. And so it's probably clear that why after actually going through this transition, Conway started the period of her life but she refers to as her the stealth phase of her career. Okay, so this entire thing feels like it should be a giant movie, right, should be a featured movie somehow, whether it's like uh, coming of age and or just overall like, yeah, it couldn't like a spy movie in the industry, but it's not. I'm just saying that from her quote in itself. But it's an amazing account of all of the things that she has gone through. Feel like, hello, actors, this is an Oscar yes level of performers if you can get it, and it should be done by a twins woman obviously, Yes, can you talk I want to see this. Can you talk about this stealth base? But yeah, I'm really into the movie now. Yes. So in Conway changed her name, hit her gender identity, and started looking for work and computing. Eventually, she found a job as a contract programmer, which is like pretty entry level, but because she is like a badass. She pretty quickly moved up. She later worked at Memorex and then landed what I'm calling the big account you know in movies and someone's like, oh, we got a big account, Like this was Conway's like her big account working at Xerox as Palo Alto Research Center, which is a huge, huge deal. And again, because she is a badass, she immediately started like kicking ass, just like she had before at IBM before getting fired. So that is to look own city and my my making that up is at the beginning. Yeah, I think that's like that like the Pilicon Valley area, you were, like, that was like where so many of the technological innovations that like we still have today that really shaped like where computers and technology and smartphones ended up going. So much of that research happened right there. So like the big account, So she literally was at the beginning of what is known as one of the biggest technological industrial times of our age. Wow. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, And again like that alone even if like, like I find her story so fascinating and inspiring, but like that alone is a huge deal, right, Like we haven't even gotten into some of the other parts of her life. But that alone, being a trans woman at the forefront and the precedice of all of these things that would go on to revolutionize all of our lives is so interesting to me, Like that alone would be a huge accomplishment. Yes, and speaking of of there were many other accomplishments that she she was taking part in during this time, right, that's right. So I have to give a little bit of a caveatlet like, I am not an engineer, so engineers who are listening, don't come after me if I say the wrong thing. I'm I'm summarizing. I am a I am a non hard tech person, summarizing someone who was like one of the most brilliant tech minds on the planet. So give me some just know that. So, her work completely revolutionized how microchips were designed, and she sometimes called the Hidden Hands, like that's her nickname for this work and how it led to the tech revolution in the eighties and nineties, and again it's like a big part of the reason why we have smartphones and personal computers. But even while she was accomplishing all of these important innovations, she really couldn't own them because of her identity. Again, she says that she was working in sort of stealth mode where she was just kind of purposely staying behind the scenes despite creating these innovations that would literally go on to change the world. Um and during this time, her train in's identity was not public knowledge. She only told close friends or like hr people or people who were needed to like do her security clearance, And she purposely made herself scarce and stayed behind the scenes, you know, hence the nickname the Hidden Hand. But that meant all of her accomplishments and innovations they also stayed behind the scenes too. And you know, it's one of those things where this is not like you know, people are like, oh, women's history is all of our history, or black history is all of our history, or trans histories all of our history. This is you know, everybody uses a computer or a smartphone for the most part, and like, transphobia almost kept us from having a full accounting of this history that shaped all of our lives, right like Lin Conway touched like her work touched all of us, and we almost did not get a full accounting of it because of the harmful legacy of transphobia and transphobic systems. Okay, can we first say that the Hidden Hand is the title of the movie, right right, if there are any like movie exact listening like the Hand in Hand perfect. Maybe I've been watching Way to Me martial arts film, but I'm like, wait, wait, wait, this is like Asian level of martial arts stealth movie. I don't know what's happening, but I'm seeing it. Maybe just needs to be transformed into that. I don't know, um, but yeah, I hate that. This is once again when we talk about women in history, especially women in marginalized communities, how they literally have to shrink in order to accomplish what they have to do quote unquote, to live what they need to do and be who they need to be. To shrink and disappear into the background so they don't make too much noise. And that is what has been taught for so long, and this is one of the prime examples for so many specially again within the queer community. Yeah, within like women colors, especially black women, being told yeah, you can do it, but you don't be loud about it because then you're just gonna cost too much of a ruckas and your personal life. You just being you will be a distraction, And I'm enraged right now just thinking about it as I continue on, because this is such a pattern with our society and the misogynistic idea overall, that this is how it should have been, and this is how everybody accepted it and was okay with it. And I'm reading all the things that you put in here, and I'm like, wow, wow, wow, Like, how how do you keep going? How do you continue to persevere and create these amazing things when there's so much against you, when you're being continually told don't exist point blank? I mean I I it's it's enraging. And it's like, you know, you were talking about these conversations you were having over the holidays with your family. I think for a lot of people it's exact me what you said. It's I don't hate queer people. I don't hate trans people. I just don't want to. I don't want to think I have to think about them. I don't want them to take up too much space, like this idea that you know. I remember having similar conversations with my family where they would be like, well, I just don't want to shove in my face, and it's like, no one shoving it any like like. For for some people, just existing is shoving it in your face, right, just like taking up space and being yourself is equated with like quote shoving it in someone's space. And so I I agree. I think that it's such a pattern where women, queer folks, trans folks, black folks, folks of color. The only way that we're told that we can safely exist is if we shrink ourselves and sort of try to disappear and try to stay off the radar. And it breaks my heart that that's what Lynn Conway had to do. But again, what could we acco what kind of world could we live in if all these folks didn't feel like that's what they had to do just to exist, I mean literally to be able to say I'm here and this is who I am in the story. And she's not asking for recognition, she never was. She just wanted to be. And I think that's where I I want to throw things, throw things in lots of people, especially obviously the people who are ignorant and are continue to spread these types of hate and this type of environment, saying that the only way that we are happy is if my norm from way back when, which is uh, staped in misogyny staped and patriarchy staped in racism that if this exists, that I'm okay as long as you don't you you don't exist in my world and I don't have to think about you. And that's just a whole other level. But you know what, if this is the movie, I feel like this is the arc where she's becomes triumphant. Yeah, yes, yes, so this is where I think it gets so interesting. So basically, Hanaway had made all of these big contributions, not just during her time at RATS, but also going back to when she was still at IBM, and you know, at this point, none of these contributions were really attributed to her. In computer historian began investigating her early innovations at IBM, which tipped her off that other people had been taking credit or had been like kind of sort of low key taking credit for the work at IBM that she had done under a different name. She wanted to correct the record, but in order to do so, she knew that she would need to open up about her identity and explain why somebody with a different name had made all of these big contributions and accomplishments that she was saying actually belonged to her, And so she ended up telling this computer historian and then quietly added a quote gender transition section to her own website. And this small, quiet decision is what really sparked the next chapter of her life as this you know, outspoken advocate for trans rights. And what an interesting conundrum that would be to say, like, well, I want to correct the record. I want people to know that that this was me, that I did this work. But in order to do that, I really have to, you know, open up about my identity in a way that I haven't really been so comfortable with before. And so how interesting it is that that personal choice and that personal you know conundrum for Linn Conway would go on to broaden all of our understanding of our world and all of our understanding of like why we have the technology that we do and who is responsible for it? And so I just always thought it was an interesting way that like this personal dilemma for Conway had these massive global implications for all of us and our understanding of technology and the internet and history. Right. Yeah, It's one of those things where for for some people that would be such a like minor thing, but that's huge to have to make that decision and to also, like way, the implications of your personal life on something that, again for a lot of people might be pretty minor, but this is It changes Lynn Conway's life, and it changes all of ours and all of the the understanding and information we have about things we do use all of the time and who's behind those and who is responsible for those And yeah, it's not an easy thing to do at all. But also yeah, this really led her down this path of advocating for trans rights right absolutely, So, the list of all the different ways that she became this outspoken advocate for trans rights, it's very, very long. She's given support and assistance to many trans women who were going through transition, and she was an advocate for employment protections for trans folks and then also just a general advocate for trans folks in technology. M One of my favorite things about her that she has done is that Conway and Leandra Vicky of the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill sunfestively lobbied the Board of Directors of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, which is essentially a code of ethics pertaining to the engineering profession to include trans identity, which impacts you know, the largest engineering professional society today, and so that's going to have like global, far reaching impacts to make that trans inclusive. And so that was work that she was able to do because she had become this like outspoken advocate for trans right and then like, yeah, just you know, I'm so happy that she had this time in her life where she was able to be a vocal advocate for her people and make make change for other people coming up in technology, Like I think that's so beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, Well, and I gotta ask, did did IBM ever, you know, come back with the apology? Well, so that's a great question. So you're probably thinking, Wow, Conaway is basically this like world changing badass, who is the reason we have smartphones? I Ben really messed up by firing her, And they would agree. After over fifty years of silence about how they treated lind Conway, finally in October, IBM invited their staff to an event called tech Trailblazers and transgender pioneer Lynn Conway in conversation with Diane Gearson. And Gearson, at the time was IBM senior vice president of Human Resources and The event started with a formal apology to Conway for her transphobic firing fifty two years earlier, and Conway said that when this was happening, she was like struggling to hold back tears. And not only did they apologize, but they also recognized her immense and deep contributions to IBM's work that again had just gone like unattributed because they fired her. So they fired her to avoid being associated with a trans woman, and so they couldn't very well be like, oh, well, all these different things we are contributions we have because of this trans woman we fired for being trans. So they basically just like overlooked and unattributed all of this work that she had done. Dario Gil, director of IBM Research, presented Conway with a Lifetime Achievement Award, given to individuals who have changed the world through technological innovations, and Gil noted that Lynn's extraordinary technical achievements helped to find the modern computing industry. She paved the way for how we design and make computing ships today and forever changed micro electronics devices and people's lives. And again, you know, it was fifty two years later that this company finally acknowledged that after she was fired in nineteen that her research was still aiding IBM success today. A spokesperson for IBM said, in nineteen sive Lynn created the Architectural Level Advanced Computing System one simulator and invented a method that led to the development of a super scalar computer. This dynamic instruction scheduling invention was later used to computer ships greatly improving their performance UM and so basically all that is to say, finally IBM was like, oh yeah, this like groundbreaking research that she did we still used today and like actually really helped us today. And you know it just for me, it's like, finally, fifty two years later you can apologize and acknowledge, and Conway said of the event, instead of just be being a resolution of what happened in nineteen, it became a heartfelt group celebration of how far we've all come since then. Wait, so did the dude that fired her? Was he still alive? Because I just really need to know that he needs to know agize. I really need to see this. I want him sitting in the board meeting hearing this conversation and then saying, you know what, this is your fault. You messed up and we're having to do this to do a majacopa because of what you did. I really need that. In the back of my head, I want a if he I don't know if he's still alive, but if you're if he is, I want a personalized video message apology. This this is what I need. And you know what, because I feel like again, this is a movie in my head that I've been playing for the last thirty and watch some thirty in one minute. I need to know. I need to see the scene of her standing by the river with her nice home, talking about her sitting with hopefully her children and our grandchildren, and just talking about where she is today. So can you please finish out this conclusion that I desperately need. Oh my god, I'm happy to you. And this is something else that I love about her story is that she's still very much alive Janie Ray. Second, she celebrated her eighty five birthday, so just a few weeks ago, Happy birthday. And something else that I love about her story is that like she You know, when I was researching for this episode, I found all these great videos of her. She is living her best life. She lives on twenty four beautiful acres of meadow marsh and woodlands and rural Michigan with her husband, where they spend all of their time like exploring the outdoors, you know. And I saw these videos of them writing like four wheelers together on their property and like canoeing together and like climbing together, and I just felt like, I'm so happy that she is like living her best life and she's still an amazing activist. You can follow her on Twitter at Lynn Conway. And yeah, I just I'm so happy that her already ends with her with a loving husband, living her best life in Michigan exploring the outdoors. Yes, and I love that this theme of like adventure and canoeing has been so foundational and helped her through these like tough times in her life. And now she has all this land and she gets to still explore those things that bring her joy. That makes me very happy. Yeah, it's really sweet. Like if anybody like, definitely google that, you can google pictures of her and google videos of her on her property and like it's it's the cutest. It like melted my heart and made me very very happy. We're trying you Samantha, I feel like you need to be attached to this project if everything your heart is I'm just exploding, like this is what I needed today. The feel good but like heartwrenching tell of coming through all the trials and tribulation, then then coming to the end with her massive property, happily, withholding hands of her husband, loving life. It makes me so happy, and I just gotta say, like, you know, trans people like lind Conway deserve to live full, beautiful lives that account for their contributions and their brilliance. And they deserve that regardless of where they are on their journeys, you know, transition. Like obviously this story was very foth focused around Conway's transition, but transition means different things to different people, Like it can mean personal and medical and legal steps, or like telling someone's family and friends and co workers, or using a different name or new pronouns, or dressing differently, or it can be different things for different people, And as we discussed earlier, you know, it can be really financially prohibitive for many and so regardless of whether or not Transpolkes are able to transition the way that Conway did, they deserve to live full lives like they deserve whatever their particular version of a twenty four acre farm on the woodlands and rural Michigan is like they deserve that, whether they can transition the way that she did or not. And so, you know, I and it's want to say that because I think that sometimes it can feel like the reason why her story gets a happy ending is because she was able to transition. And I think that everybody deserves a full life and a happy ending, regardless of where they are on that journey. I mean, that's the end goal is let people live their best life, to truly have the freedom and the peace and and and I'm happy of pursuit of happiness as they should, because this is about them, it's not about us. When people are disenfranchised and pushed to the point of being non existent, that's when we lose great minds, and that's what we lose greatness in general. And I breaks my heart obviously, um as as you have brought the story to us that this is a good ending, and I love that we can celebrate her while she's still here and give her the flowers that she deserves while she's still here. But at the same time. You know, we can't look past the fact that she had to go through this in the first place, and though she was able to get through it, thank God that she was she was able to There's so many others who are pushed beyond those boundaries, and that we don't get to celebrate who they are um because of hate and ignorance and the continue need to erase and completely censure these amazing people just for who they are, just for living and we cannot be quiet and belittle um. The fact that this is an ongoing issue today and the many who have been killed, the many who have died by suicide, Like all of these things are important that we keep talking about what great success can look like. But the fact that that she shouldn't have to have gone through have the that she had to go through and had the many of these people have to go through. Absolutely. I mean, that's one of the reasons why her story sticks with me, because it just reminds me to sell it to like build the monuments to these marginalized people who are so often erased, and do so as a way to honor the people who didn't make it, the people whose voices and whose stories we won't here the people who are making contributions that we don't know about right now, right that we won't find out about. And so, you know, I think it's so important that we not just like you said that, we don't let sexist, racist, transphobic systems erase these accomplishments because they are important to all of us. There there are history as it's just as people as humans. And so it's you really said it, like it's so important to me and it. Conway has this great piece kind of looking back on her life in the Huffingland Post and it ends with this great line, bottom line, if you want to change the future, start living as if you're already there. And I love that for her. I love the idea of all of us taking responsibility to sort of create the world we want to see and build these these monuments to these marginalized voices that we desperately need. So, Lynn Conway, you are a hero. You are incredible. Your story is amazing. You are a badass, And I'm so glad that we can talk about her while she's still alive, like we can go tweet that or if you wanted, Like that's incredible. That is living history that is contete at her from the technologist she helped create. That got me really excited. Um, and thank you Bridget for bringing this story for always, you know, finding these these things that we might have missed that are so important, are so so valuable for us to know and talk about. Um. So we really appreciate it. And thank you thinking, thank you, oh, thank you for giving me a space to do it. This is my favorite thing to do in the world. It makes me so happy. So thanks thanks to the both of you. Yes, um, well I can't wait to do it again. We'll see what we can get moving with this motion picture deal. Um. But in the meantime, Bridget, where can the good listeners find you? You can find me at my own podcast called There Are No Girls on the Internet or We Love digging into the unexplored, overlooked history of marginalized folks and how they shape technology and the Internet. You can find me on Instagram at Bridget Marine d C and on better probably tweeting at Lynn Conway how much I love her at Bridget Murray. Yes, I love it. I love it. Definitely go check all that stuff out, listeners if you haven't already, Thank you again. Bridget and to wait to hang out again in this virtual weird pandemic setting. And thank you listeners for listening. If you want to contact us, you can our email stuff Idia, mom Stuff at I Hurt mea dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast or Instagram and stuff One Never Told You. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina, Thank you and thanks to you for listening. Stuff One Never Told The Strotection by Hour Radio for more podcast from My Hear Radio, I Heard You app Apple Podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Stuff Mom Never Told You

Through an intersectional feminist perspective, hosts Anney and Samantha dive into science, history, 
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