Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm Elie Schaeffer, Variety's London news editor, and this marks my first full Strictly Business episode, which is very exciting. This week I sat down with Phil Hutcheon, the CEO of Dice, a London based ticketing software company that's taking the market by storm with its artist and fan forward mission. After spending a decade in the music industry, Hutchin founded the company in twenty fourteen with the aim of making live events more accessible by taking a stance against scalping and dynamic pricing. As it celebrates its tenth anniversary, Dice has expanded to over a dozen US cities and also recently launched in Canada, but has kept a strong local focus. As you will hear on the episode, I use Dice probably every week here in London, not just for concerts, but for club nights, comedy shows and more. Keep on starting to hear more about how Dice is revolutionizing the ticketing industry by delivering a fan friendly experience, helping artists book the right that news and making it easier to go out than ever. Plus, Phil offers his thoughts on the recent Taylor Swift at Oasis ticketing tobacles and why being part of the middle.

Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm Elie Schaeffer, Variety's London news editor, and this marks my first full Strictly Business episode, which is very exciting. This week I sat down with Phil Hutcheon, the CEO of Dice, a London based ticketing software company that's taking the market by storm with its artist and fan forward mission. After spending a decade in the music industry, Hutchin founded the company in twenty fourteen with the aim of making live events more accessible by taking a stance against scalping and dynamic pricing. As it celebrates its tenth anniversary, Dice has expanded to over a dozen US cities and also recently launched in Canada, but has kept a strong local focus. As you will hear on the episode, I use Dice probably every week here in London, not just for concerts, but for club nights, comedy shows and more. Keep on starting to hear more about how Dice is revolutionizing the ticketing industry by delivering a fan friendly experience, helping artists book the right that news and making it easier to go out than ever. Plus, Phil offers his thoughts on the recent Taylor Swift at Oasis ticketing tobacles and why being part of the middle.

Market is DICE's superpower.

Market is DICE's superpower.

And that's all coming up after this break, and we're back with Phil Hutchins, CEO of Dice.

And that's all coming up after this break, and we're back with Phil Hutchins, CEO of Dice.

Tell me a bit about how Dice started. Give me the origin story.

Tell me a bit about how Dice started. Give me the origin story.

Okay, cool. So, so my background was in product contech and then I went into the music industry and not really knowing anyone in the music industry, and it was during that time when we were looking after artists who were performing, particularly in North America, and we do deals with that shows and we're like, cool, it's let's do it. And it's like thirty dollars a ticket, and then I would go and sale and it was like fifty and I'm like, hang on a minute, why is it fifty when we just did it for thirty And so they were like, oh, that's just the fees, and and then it'd sell out and then the tickets were going for hundreds of dollars and then the fans were getting really upset, and I was just like, how is this like even possible? So I tried all the different ticketing companies to see what was going on, but everyone was kind of just doing the same thing. And so the I figured that you're bringing like my past experience plus music to like, well if no one else has got to solve this, and solving it is like scalping, you know, upfront pricing your discovery. How do you find things all that kind of stuff and actually build something for fans, then I guess that we have to do it.

Okay, cool. So, so my background was in product contech and then I went into the music industry and not really knowing anyone in the music industry, and it was during that time when we were looking after artists who were performing, particularly in North America, and we do deals with that shows and we're like, cool, it's let's do it. And it's like thirty dollars a ticket, and then I would go and sale and it was like fifty and I'm like, hang on a minute, why is it fifty when we just did it for thirty And so they were like, oh, that's just the fees, and and then it'd sell out and then the tickets were going for hundreds of dollars and then the fans were getting really upset, and I was just like, how is this like even possible? So I tried all the different ticketing companies to see what was going on, but everyone was kind of just doing the same thing. And so the I figured that you're bringing like my past experience plus music to like, well if no one else has got to solve this, and solving it is like scalping, you know, upfront pricing your discovery. How do you find things all that kind of stuff and actually build something for fans, then I guess that we have to do it.

Yeah, absolutely, And starting out, what was the team like, so it was you and then how do you sort of build this team and actually get it to to the point where you could live with it? Yeah?

Yeah, absolutely, And starting out, what was the team like, so it was you and then how do you sort of build this team and actually get it to to the point where you could live with it? Yeah?

So we we actually, uh, it was a team, like it was super small, so you know, Mio was our CTEO engineer everything like this journal, you know, a lot of the actual development designers, a couple of designers and a couple of people who are new from from music. It was small and we actually, you know, because everyone said that it's not going to work. Everyone said that on you know, it's like a futile thing to do. And also like would people trust like a new product that came to the market, And so we actually had a fake brand called Tisie for like a couple of months, which uh just you know, pulling in favors from you know, artists and stuff like, hey, can media tickets just to scene whether or not a fan would go to something that is new and buy a ticket on it, and they did. I'm like, okay, that's that's kind of cool. And then we pulled in more favors from the music industry to get sort of bigger shows on And yeah, I think that one thing that I still trying to remind people today is that online audiences and like physical audiences, like the number is like it's crazy for your brain to understand. So for example, if you have like an online audience or your media company you have like ten thousand views, you're like, eh, that's okay. But actually, if you're in a space when you have ten thousand people, there's actually a lot of people. And so our first show after a month, we had like ten thousand people and we sold ten thousand tickets and all high fiving, and then we got there and it was like a team of six and we're like, how are we going to get all these people in? And so it was Yeah, So it's kind of I think that a lot of naivety. None of us had any ticketing experience, to be honest, Like, before all this, I didn't even care about ticketing, But then the more that we looked into it, and like how important is in terms of that relationship for the between the fan and the artist and getting people in and making a fun and everything else. Like, yeah, we just wanted to do a good job for sure.

So we we actually, uh, it was a team, like it was super small, so you know, Mio was our CTEO engineer everything like this journal, you know, a lot of the actual development designers, a couple of designers and a couple of people who are new from from music. It was small and we actually, you know, because everyone said that it's not going to work. Everyone said that on you know, it's like a futile thing to do. And also like would people trust like a new product that came to the market, And so we actually had a fake brand called Tisie for like a couple of months, which uh just you know, pulling in favors from you know, artists and stuff like, hey, can media tickets just to scene whether or not a fan would go to something that is new and buy a ticket on it, and they did. I'm like, okay, that's that's kind of cool. And then we pulled in more favors from the music industry to get sort of bigger shows on And yeah, I think that one thing that I still trying to remind people today is that online audiences and like physical audiences, like the number is like it's crazy for your brain to understand. So for example, if you have like an online audience or your media company you have like ten thousand views, you're like, eh, that's okay. But actually, if you're in a space when you have ten thousand people, there's actually a lot of people. And so our first show after a month, we had like ten thousand people and we sold ten thousand tickets and all high fiving, and then we got there and it was like a team of six and we're like, how are we going to get all these people in? And so it was Yeah, So it's kind of I think that a lot of naivety. None of us had any ticketing experience, to be honest, Like, before all this, I didn't even care about ticketing, But then the more that we looked into it, and like how important is in terms of that relationship for the between the fan and the artist and getting people in and making a fun and everything else. Like, yeah, we just wanted to do a good job for sure.

And did it start in London?

And did it start in London?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Okay, yeah?

Okay, yeah?

What was I guess special about London that sort of fueled this idea? Do you feel like you could have started it anywhere else or do you think London was helpful in this That's.

What was I guess special about London that sort of fueled this idea? Do you feel like you could have started it anywhere else or do you think London was helpful in this That's.

A really good question because it's I actually think that starting in London gave us a huge advantage. It's so competitive in London, and it really is like you got to like be so much better than everyone else. And actually one of our early investors really pushed me not to expand outside of London until we got like product market fit. So it was a time when you know, because we're you know, a city based platform, that we saw all these other companies like launching everywhere and raising tons of money and we were just in London and I was like, surely we've got to go and here was like not to stay here, just make sure that all of the metrics are right, and we did, and all those other companies are kind of gone. But I think that what happened was that as soon as we left London, we had like a fully formed product and we knew exactly know how to do it. And I guess that maybe there's like a parallel with Spotify starting in Sweden, you know, really sort of getting it right and then going out. But for sure, if we started it in America, like we would have been killed like pretty early on. So yeah, there is also like a like an industry advantage I think of being in London. A lot of the agents are here, a lot of artists love playing in London, so you know, there's a lot of shows. I should also say, because of my naivet tickening and life and everything else, I really thought that we would have like two hundred shows in London. That's about it. A little didn't note Like I think now we've got like a hundred at night. Like it's there's so much going on. And one of the things up being a platform is quite often we get asked, like you know, you're in conversation with an artist or a manager and let's oh, ticket sales to going down or tools. But because we see everything always sly. Every month is like more and more people going out and shows selling out and everything else. So it's yeah, it's it's kind of cool.

A really good question because it's I actually think that starting in London gave us a huge advantage. It's so competitive in London, and it really is like you got to like be so much better than everyone else. And actually one of our early investors really pushed me not to expand outside of London until we got like product market fit. So it was a time when you know, because we're you know, a city based platform, that we saw all these other companies like launching everywhere and raising tons of money and we were just in London and I was like, surely we've got to go and here was like not to stay here, just make sure that all of the metrics are right, and we did, and all those other companies are kind of gone. But I think that what happened was that as soon as we left London, we had like a fully formed product and we knew exactly know how to do it. And I guess that maybe there's like a parallel with Spotify starting in Sweden, you know, really sort of getting it right and then going out. But for sure, if we started it in America, like we would have been killed like pretty early on. So yeah, there is also like a like an industry advantage I think of being in London. A lot of the agents are here, a lot of artists love playing in London, so you know, there's a lot of shows. I should also say, because of my naivet tickening and life and everything else, I really thought that we would have like two hundred shows in London. That's about it. A little didn't note Like I think now we've got like a hundred at night. Like it's there's so much going on. And one of the things up being a platform is quite often we get asked, like you know, you're in conversation with an artist or a manager and let's oh, ticket sales to going down or tools. But because we see everything always sly. Every month is like more and more people going out and shows selling out and everything else. So it's yeah, it's it's kind of cool.

I think also London has such a unique sort of music culture and that there's pub culture, right, and so I think the biggest thing for me coming from LA was being able to go to any given pub on a Tuesday night and there's a band playing in the back and they're amazing. Yeah, you know, and it feels it feels much more organic maybe than other cities. There's much more. It feels like to me, there's much more of this like underground, and I think like when I started buying tickets on dice, that's like what I was, you know, buying tickets to or these like little shows at these little little pubs that you know, I think maybe people wouldn't have heard of, but you sort of stumble upon them. More is just like oh, we want to go to this bar, we want to go to this pub, and like, let's buy a ticket to this.

I think also London has such a unique sort of music culture and that there's pub culture, right, and so I think the biggest thing for me coming from LA was being able to go to any given pub on a Tuesday night and there's a band playing in the back and they're amazing. Yeah, you know, and it feels it feels much more organic maybe than other cities. There's much more. It feels like to me, there's much more of this like underground, and I think like when I started buying tickets on dice, that's like what I was, you know, buying tickets to or these like little shows at these little little pubs that you know, I think maybe people wouldn't have heard of, but you sort of stumble upon them. More is just like oh, we want to go to this bar, we want to go to this pub, and like, let's buy a ticket to this.

Yeah, And that's actually my favorite show is like a tiny, small, free show, and I like seeing someone starting out and it's super exciting. And that's actually one of the things that we wanted to help with is discovery because there's so much music and so the you know, in the olden days, you'd have like listings, you know, in like free newspapers in the city, and so with Dice was like that investment into our discovery and the algorithms. I mean it took us three and a half years to get that working like properly because we only use our own data. We're very pro privacy and trying to like bring that in. But you know, getting people excited about seeing something new, it's like the biggest thrill, Like you know, seeing people's comments never heard of this artist, and like yeah, it blows their minds.

Yeah, And that's actually my favorite show is like a tiny, small, free show, and I like seeing someone starting out and it's super exciting. And that's actually one of the things that we wanted to help with is discovery because there's so much music and so the you know, in the olden days, you'd have like listings, you know, in like free newspapers in the city, and so with Dice was like that investment into our discovery and the algorithms. I mean it took us three and a half years to get that working like properly because we only use our own data. We're very pro privacy and trying to like bring that in. But you know, getting people excited about seeing something new, it's like the biggest thrill, Like you know, seeing people's comments never heard of this artist, and like yeah, it blows their minds.

Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I mean I know I get my notification. I think it's every Thursday. Can you tell that you dice all the time, And it's like, you know, bands that you might might like, and like, I know, me and my friends we literally use that. We scroll on Dice, we go check out our favorite venues, yeah, and see who's playing. And also you know, linking it with Spotify. I think it's just like so smart because I never miss a show of one of my favorite artists.

Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I mean I know I get my notification. I think it's every Thursday. Can you tell that you dice all the time, And it's like, you know, bands that you might might like, and like, I know, me and my friends we literally use that. We scroll on Dice, we go check out our favorite venues, yeah, and see who's playing. And also you know, linking it with Spotify. I think it's just like so smart because I never miss a show of one of my favorite artists.

It's interesting that so we use Spotify to get like a warm sort of introduction, so that if you're new to Dice, you Spotify, you're like, Okay, what are you listening to? But it's not as tight a correlation between your listening and what you want to go to as you might think. You might listen to techno all day, but you don't want to go to a club, or you might be listening to sing the songwriters all day or our classical music or whatever else, right, and like pulling those things up, and then also like you might be listening to something, but your favorite band is something that you listen to ten years ago, and so it's like, so what we have is look alikes, and so we're able to kind of pull the data from other fans and Dice to give you, you know what, more of like the life recommendations. But it's cool, that's news shows Thursday. So that was trying to create like data products within Dice that make it easy for people to figure out what's going on.

It's interesting that so we use Spotify to get like a warm sort of introduction, so that if you're new to Dice, you Spotify, you're like, Okay, what are you listening to? But it's not as tight a correlation between your listening and what you want to go to as you might think. You might listen to techno all day, but you don't want to go to a club, or you might be listening to sing the songwriters all day or our classical music or whatever else, right, and like pulling those things up, and then also like you might be listening to something, but your favorite band is something that you listen to ten years ago, and so it's like, so what we have is look alikes, and so we're able to kind of pull the data from other fans and Dice to give you, you know what, more of like the life recommendations. But it's cool, that's news shows Thursday. So that was trying to create like data products within Dice that make it easy for people to figure out what's going on.

Absolutely yeah, I mean, I think that's such an interesting part of Dice that makes it stand out is like the community aspect as well. It's sort of a social media platform, which we've seen also with Spotify. You know, one of my favorite things to do is see what my friends are listening to. And on Dice you were able to connect with your friends and share tickets and share shows. Tell me a bit about you know why that was so important to you know DICE's I guess core, Yeah, because it's.

Absolutely yeah, I mean, I think that's such an interesting part of Dice that makes it stand out is like the community aspect as well. It's sort of a social media platform, which we've seen also with Spotify. You know, one of my favorite things to do is see what my friends are listening to. And on Dice you were able to connect with your friends and share tickets and share shows. Tell me a bit about you know why that was so important to you know DICE's I guess core, Yeah, because it's.

Like the first principle is like, you know why we did Dice is the you know, why is it that one of the best experiences that you can go to, maybe something that you remember forever, starts off in such a crappy like situation when you're buying a ticket and so like fixing that make it like really exciting at the beginning. But so we see the world in three stages. So the first is the anticipation to the event, which is not just like an event but I hold anything else. Anticipation is like super important. Then it's the participation actually been at the event, and then like the memory that you have afterwards. And so for us like all these things have seen your friends. I mean, fomo is a pretty big thing on Dice. When you see your friends go into something, right, and so you're like, I probably should go. But that's also something that we're going to be dialing up a lot in twenty twenty five. I see, you know, the idea of I think people are moving away from like you know, well, I want to have something different than to sort of large scale sort of social media. And actually, you know, you do have a lot of commonality when you go see an artist or a show or a club night or anything else, and allow people to interact more on dice around that and really get into more around community. And then with that with community, allowing artists to participate in that as well and getting them to chat.

Like the first principle is like, you know why we did Dice is the you know, why is it that one of the best experiences that you can go to, maybe something that you remember forever, starts off in such a crappy like situation when you're buying a ticket and so like fixing that make it like really exciting at the beginning. But so we see the world in three stages. So the first is the anticipation to the event, which is not just like an event but I hold anything else. Anticipation is like super important. Then it's the participation actually been at the event, and then like the memory that you have afterwards. And so for us like all these things have seen your friends. I mean, fomo is a pretty big thing on Dice. When you see your friends go into something, right, and so you're like, I probably should go. But that's also something that we're going to be dialing up a lot in twenty twenty five. I see, you know, the idea of I think people are moving away from like you know, well, I want to have something different than to sort of large scale sort of social media. And actually, you know, you do have a lot of commonality when you go see an artist or a show or a club night or anything else, and allow people to interact more on dice around that and really get into more around community. And then with that with community, allowing artists to participate in that as well and getting them to chat.

Yeah. So yeah, tell me a bit about you know, the artist's aspect of things and how you work with artists to make the experience unique.

Yeah. So yeah, tell me a bit about you know, the artist's aspect of things and how you work with artists to make the experience unique.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So first of all, it's like it's a just taking that paid away from them where they don't have, you know, articles about how they're exploiting fans, so that these guys it's gone, Yeah, there's no anything there. So like it's it's like a safe place for them to do it. I think also, you know, working with the venues and the promoters is helping them figure out like how big the show should be. You know, it's not again, it's not like a one for one in terms of you sell out a show and the natural instinct, okay, we need to do a bigger show. Sometimes everyone who wants to see you is seeing you at that show and like yeah, So we're able to help them like figure out, is there really demand to go bigger or do you need to like be out of the city for a while because a live event is scarce. And also like there's a thing where you assume that's someone who went to something, we'll just want to keep going back again, but actually they want to go to lots of things, and so it's trying to help artists to avoid like those traps but also see the opportunities because on the other side, sometimes we'll get, for example, some Korean acts will just come in and we've never heard of them, and they'll play like a three thousand capacity venue and no one has any idea like how big it's going to be, and then we've got like twenty thousand people on the wait list. Wow, And so from that we're able to help them like generate, like you know, do more shows or do matinees or whatever else like from that, but help them also like use that data to go to other cities as well.

So first of all, it's like it's a just taking that paid away from them where they don't have, you know, articles about how they're exploiting fans, so that these guys it's gone, Yeah, there's no anything there. So like it's it's like a safe place for them to do it. I think also, you know, working with the venues and the promoters is helping them figure out like how big the show should be. You know, it's not again, it's not like a one for one in terms of you sell out a show and the natural instinct, okay, we need to do a bigger show. Sometimes everyone who wants to see you is seeing you at that show and like yeah, So we're able to help them like figure out, is there really demand to go bigger or do you need to like be out of the city for a while because a live event is scarce. And also like there's a thing where you assume that's someone who went to something, we'll just want to keep going back again, but actually they want to go to lots of things, and so it's trying to help artists to avoid like those traps but also see the opportunities because on the other side, sometimes we'll get, for example, some Korean acts will just come in and we've never heard of them, and they'll play like a three thousand capacity venue and no one has any idea like how big it's going to be, and then we've got like twenty thousand people on the wait list. Wow, And so from that we're able to help them like generate, like you know, do more shows or do matinees or whatever else like from that, but help them also like use that data to go to other cities as well.

Absolutely, And tell me a bit about the waiting list aspect, because that's one of my favorite, I guess aspects of DICE. Like I've been able to get tickets to shows that I've like, I've think pretty much almost every show that I put myself on the waiting list to like because you have that notification and you get you know, it reserves those tickets for you. So as long as you're able to like log on and get the tickets, you're golden.

Absolutely, And tell me a bit about the waiting list aspect, because that's one of my favorite, I guess aspects of DICE. Like I've been able to get tickets to shows that I've like, I've think pretty much almost every show that I put myself on the waiting list to like because you have that notification and you get you know, it reserves those tickets for you. So as long as you're able to like log on and get the tickets, you're golden.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, tell me a bit about developing that and you know why it's important to DICE's mission.

Yeah, tell me a bit about developing that and you know why it's important to DICE's mission.

Yeah, because the so life happens the idea that you buy tickets to an event but you can't make it, and it's like two things. One is that you know, the if the show doesn't sell out, we don't activate the weightlist, and that's just you know, this is an aside thing that that's because that the artists and the promoter and everyone else has spent so much money in putting on that event. If everyone was able to get a refund, then those events just wouldn't happen. They just can't. But if it's sold out, and this is the thing that people are always shocked about. So when we know that when someone gets a ticket on a waitlist and Dice, that's it, they're locked into Dice forever because it is like such a mind blowing experience because something is sold out and you add yourself and you're like, yeah, sure that's going to happen. And there's two behavioral points from a fan. So what we see is that either fans return their ticket it's almost immediately after buying them because they realize they have a conflict. So they've bought four tickets to something and they're like, I'll go go to wedding or whatever it is. Or it's just like a week or so before the show and they would turn like one or two of their tickets because someone's dropped out. And it is annoying, Like when if your friend has dropped out.

Yeah, because the so life happens the idea that you buy tickets to an event but you can't make it, and it's like two things. One is that you know, the if the show doesn't sell out, we don't activate the weightlist, and that's just you know, this is an aside thing that that's because that the artists and the promoter and everyone else has spent so much money in putting on that event. If everyone was able to get a refund, then those events just wouldn't happen. They just can't. But if it's sold out, and this is the thing that people are always shocked about. So when we know that when someone gets a ticket on a waitlist and Dice, that's it, they're locked into Dice forever because it is like such a mind blowing experience because something is sold out and you add yourself and you're like, yeah, sure that's going to happen. And there's two behavioral points from a fan. So what we see is that either fans return their ticket it's almost immediately after buying them because they realize they have a conflict. So they've bought four tickets to something and they're like, I'll go go to wedding or whatever it is. Or it's just like a week or so before the show and they would turn like one or two of their tickets because someone's dropped out. And it is annoying, Like when if your friend has dropped out.

Last week and I didn't buy it on Dice, so I had to like sell it on Instagram.

Last week and I didn't buy it on Dice, so I had to like sell it on Instagram.

It was a whole thing. Yeah, that's right. And to just be able to just do that and have that happy sort of fan path. What we didn't realize is like how beneficial waiting list is for venues because you when we spoke to venues when they have like you know, the secondary switched on, you have lots of speculators buying tickets and a lot of that inventory gets on sold, like those tickets get unsold, and so you we found out that on average a venue only gets to like eighty five percent capacity for a sold at show, but if you got weightless, it's like nine to nine percent. And so for us, it's like we we do be a math where we're like, Okay, there's actually people who come to the venue, like look how much money they're going to spend at the venue. But it's like trying to you know, it's kind of we love the fact that you're creating this amazing thing for a fan and it's actually benefiting everyone because you know that money's getting reinvested into the industry.

It was a whole thing. Yeah, that's right. And to just be able to just do that and have that happy sort of fan path. What we didn't realize is like how beneficial waiting list is for venues because you when we spoke to venues when they have like you know, the secondary switched on, you have lots of speculators buying tickets and a lot of that inventory gets on sold, like those tickets get unsold, and so you we found out that on average a venue only gets to like eighty five percent capacity for a sold at show, but if you got weightless, it's like nine to nine percent. And so for us, it's like we we do be a math where we're like, Okay, there's actually people who come to the venue, like look how much money they're going to spend at the venue. But it's like trying to you know, it's kind of we love the fact that you're creating this amazing thing for a fan and it's actually benefiting everyone because you know that money's getting reinvested into the industry.

Absolutely and obviously it helps a lot with you know, this phenomenon we've seen just grow more and more recently, which is the scalping situation. Yeah yeah, I mean, tell me a bit about combating that. And you know, I mean, if correct me if I'm wrong, But I feel like dice is like you can't really scalp on dice. No.

Absolutely and obviously it helps a lot with you know, this phenomenon we've seen just grow more and more recently, which is the scalping situation. Yeah yeah, I mean, tell me a bit about combating that. And you know, I mean, if correct me if I'm wrong, But I feel like dice is like you can't really scalp on dice. No.

Yeah, So it's the thing that was super important to us that the it was to protect fans and artists from you know, the institutional like you know resellers who are just buying stuff not because they're fans, because they know it's going to sell out and like jack up the prices and it leaves the industry and you can see it like you know on you stop hubs, like you know, financials. They're they're so proud that they're like you got all this inventory and they sell it for lots of money, and it's like it sucks because they don't have anything to do with the event. They don't help invest into it, they don't invest into the artists, they don't make the fan experience like awesome. And so the for us is to let's just keep it within this ecosystem and help build it out. So for us, as it's a combination of you know, uy where this is difficult, Like for example, there's no ticket to sell, so you notice that when you buy a ticket it only becomes active like just before the event, right, and so you feel what are you selling? The second is around you know, we've got these little bots which within DICE that can identify someone who you know doesn't have like a typical sort of fan behavior, and so we make them, you know, if they want to transfer a ticket or anything else, they have to get in touch with a support person that DICE. And that's the human side. We have things like you've got to have the persons, I know, and it sounds weird, but just from our analysis, you've got to have the if you want to send someone a ticket, they've got to be in your phone book, right yeah. And again it's just like would you put a scalper's like phone number in your phone book? Maybe probably not, And so it's like just it's like dumb and smart tech to help, like you stop it.

Yeah, So it's the thing that was super important to us that the it was to protect fans and artists from you know, the institutional like you know resellers who are just buying stuff not because they're fans, because they know it's going to sell out and like jack up the prices and it leaves the industry and you can see it like you know on you stop hubs, like you know, financials. They're they're so proud that they're like you got all this inventory and they sell it for lots of money, and it's like it sucks because they don't have anything to do with the event. They don't help invest into it, they don't invest into the artists, they don't make the fan experience like awesome. And so the for us is to let's just keep it within this ecosystem and help build it out. So for us, as it's a combination of you know, uy where this is difficult, Like for example, there's no ticket to sell, so you notice that when you buy a ticket it only becomes active like just before the event, right, and so you feel what are you selling? The second is around you know, we've got these little bots which within DICE that can identify someone who you know doesn't have like a typical sort of fan behavior, and so we make them, you know, if they want to transfer a ticket or anything else, they have to get in touch with a support person that DICE. And that's the human side. We have things like you've got to have the persons, I know, and it sounds weird, but just from our analysis, you've got to have the if you want to send someone a ticket, they've got to be in your phone book, right yeah. And again it's just like would you put a scalper's like phone number in your phone book? Maybe probably not, And so it's like just it's like dumb and smart tech to help, like you stop it.

Yeah, like that dumb and smart deck.

Yeah, like that dumb and smart deck.

Yeah yeah, yeah, it's like the like a camera in a store that doesn't work or whatever else, right right, yeah.

Yeah yeah, yeah, it's like the like a camera in a store that doesn't work or whatever else, right right, yeah.

And obviously you know, dynamic pricing is a big reason also why you started DICE. Just want to get rid of those fees. Yeah, tell me a bit about like how you're sort of able to do that, and and just watching from afar, obviously there's been several sort of scandals I guess you could call them. We had Taylor Swift, you know, oasis like these prices just getting jacked up, and yeah, tell me how you're able to prevent that.

And obviously you know, dynamic pricing is a big reason also why you started DICE. Just want to get rid of those fees. Yeah, tell me a bit about like how you're sort of able to do that, and and just watching from afar, obviously there's been several sort of scandals I guess you could call them. We had Taylor Swift, you know, oasis like these prices just getting jacked up, and yeah, tell me how you're able to prevent that.

On days there's a the same to lib quote, which is ethics changes laws, not the other way around. And I think that just because it's in our DNA, it just happens, like there's ian I have faith in people, and I have faith and artists. And there are artists who you know, probably only have one tour in them. You know, they might have been you know, become famous online or on TV or something like that, and I've got one tour, so they want to maximize their revenue. Fair play to them if they want to use secondary right, it's not right for Dice anyway. But for the large majority of artists who are building like careers, I do think that the people are very emotional about music, which is why these become like really good headlines, like that artist might have created a song that got you through a bad time or a good time, or you know, something a connection with somebody or whatever it is. And if you found out that the artist said like deliberately instead of you jacked up the prices or did these things. It's it's like a betrayal.

On days there's a the same to lib quote, which is ethics changes laws, not the other way around. And I think that just because it's in our DNA, it just happens, like there's ian I have faith in people, and I have faith and artists. And there are artists who you know, probably only have one tour in them. You know, they might have been you know, become famous online or on TV or something like that, and I've got one tour, so they want to maximize their revenue. Fair play to them if they want to use secondary right, it's not right for Dice anyway. But for the large majority of artists who are building like careers, I do think that the people are very emotional about music, which is why these become like really good headlines, like that artist might have created a song that got you through a bad time or a good time, or you know, something a connection with somebody or whatever it is. And if you found out that the artist said like deliberately instead of you jacked up the prices or did these things. It's it's like a betrayal.

It hurts.

It hurts.

Yeah, and so and so I guess that going back into like how we help artist, it does. We've never had an artist like approaches to do anything like that. And maybe it's just because they just know that Dice just isn't that world.

Yeah, and so and so I guess that going back into like how we help artist, it does. We've never had an artist like approaches to do anything like that. And maybe it's just because they just know that Dice just isn't that world.

Yeah, for sure, don't go anywhere.

Yeah, for sure, don't go anywhere.

We'll be right back with more from Phil Hutchin, the CEO of Dice. And we're back with more of my conversation with Phil Hutchin, the CEO of Dice.

We'll be right back with more from Phil Hutchin, the CEO of Dice. And we're back with more of my conversation with Phil Hutchin, the CEO of Dice.

I know that you celebrated your tenth anniversary this year. Correct, tell me a bit. I guess you know how the platform has grown in these past ten years, Like what are some ways in which you've seen it change? And then where are you like looking to go next?

I know that you celebrated your tenth anniversary this year. Correct, tell me a bit. I guess you know how the platform has grown in these past ten years, Like what are some ways in which you've seen it change? And then where are you like looking to go next?

Cool? So, yeah, I think we're all in denial that we're out ten years. It kind of feels like we have started yesterday and we still have so so much to do. But the other side is like it is awesome, like how how big Dice got in the US, for example, and like in New York it's cool being able to go around and see I think we've got just over a million people a month used Dice in New York. You've got one point three million in London. But then you're like Paris. But like it's this connection like sort of around and so yeah, we I'm not very nostalgia, but at the same time, you know, it is cool, like it has like broken through to the other side. Because we said at the start, there weren't many people in day one thinking that we would last this long or that you know, we can actually you know, take on the incumbents or whatever else. But what this happens that has created space, and you know, I think that there is so much more room to grow. I think the localization of music is not going to reverse. So like for example, you know artists you know from Africa or South America and Asia and then India. Like I think those scenes are only going to get bigger and bigger and bigger. And so you know, when we think about expansion, we're thinking about sort of those territories for sure. That's awesome.

Cool? So, yeah, I think we're all in denial that we're out ten years. It kind of feels like we have started yesterday and we still have so so much to do. But the other side is like it is awesome, like how how big Dice got in the US, for example, and like in New York it's cool being able to go around and see I think we've got just over a million people a month used Dice in New York. You've got one point three million in London. But then you're like Paris. But like it's this connection like sort of around and so yeah, we I'm not very nostalgia, but at the same time, you know, it is cool, like it has like broken through to the other side. Because we said at the start, there weren't many people in day one thinking that we would last this long or that you know, we can actually you know, take on the incumbents or whatever else. But what this happens that has created space, and you know, I think that there is so much more room to grow. I think the localization of music is not going to reverse. So like for example, you know artists you know from Africa or South America and Asia and then India. Like I think those scenes are only going to get bigger and bigger and bigger. And so you know, when we think about expansion, we're thinking about sort of those territories for sure. That's awesome.

How many US cities is Dice active in right now?

How many US cities is Dice active in right now?

Yeah, so we're in I think fourteen fifteen. I'm just kind of like going deeper like into those existing cities over the short period and then sort of widening it a little bit into the new year. But then also we launched in Canada and so yeah, that's something that is going super well. But yeah, it it's the thing where you and the one side you want to go crazy, but it's also like making sure that it's that we can deliver, like the promise to Fats, so Dice doesn't work. It would just have one venue in the city, like we've got to have, right, You've got to have high concentration because you know, the big difference between Dice and anybody else is that we create a lot of demand. You know, the we our thing to venues and artists is like cool, your marketing spend will plummet once you're on Dice. But if you only got one venue in the city, then we don't really have that because you've got that one thing. So that's why when you go to a Dice city, there's usually lots of events.

Yeah, so we're in I think fourteen fifteen. I'm just kind of like going deeper like into those existing cities over the short period and then sort of widening it a little bit into the new year. But then also we launched in Canada and so yeah, that's something that is going super well. But yeah, it it's the thing where you and the one side you want to go crazy, but it's also like making sure that it's that we can deliver, like the promise to Fats, so Dice doesn't work. It would just have one venue in the city, like we've got to have, right, You've got to have high concentration because you know, the big difference between Dice and anybody else is that we create a lot of demand. You know, the we our thing to venues and artists is like cool, your marketing spend will plummet once you're on Dice. But if you only got one venue in the city, then we don't really have that because you've got that one thing. So that's why when you go to a Dice city, there's usually lots of events.

It's got to be like a scene.

It's got to be like a scene.

Yeah, it's got to be a scene. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Yeah, it's got to be a scene. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

And you know, I found that Dice particularly appeals to young people, Like it's I think it's in the app design, it's in the social media aspect. I guess how do how do you ensure that through the marketing as well of that?

And you know, I found that Dice particularly appeals to young people, Like it's I think it's in the app design, it's in the social media aspect. I guess how do how do you ensure that through the marketing as well of that?

First of all, because we were very data oriented companies that the you know, the next generation and going out as much as anyone else. So nothing has really changed in terms of because you read all these art I saw it today this morning in the Guardian talking about people not going out anymore, like so, who are all these people going at every night of the week. Why is it that there's waiting this for all of these events because they're all sold out. So yeah, first of all, everyone is going out as much as they did, and I think maybe it's just an aging that people think that they don't. I think they also been ten years old. At Dice, we're seeing people who maybe started in the early twenties like still using dice and so the you know, we've seen a little bit of an increase on that as well, like people sort of you know going out and keep going out on Dice. But it is also like missle to say that Dice is just for like a younger demographic. It's a majority, sure, yeah, but we have lots of shows that hasn't an older audience. It was funny like, yeah, ten years ago, would anyone damnload an app to go to an event was like a thing, right, you know. We did Adele at Wembley Stadium and they're like, oh, how is the older fans going to use the phone? I'm like, you're literally texting me on your phone about this, Like people use their phones all the time, like it's so easy to use. So it's kind of just that thing. So I felt that that thing has gone away now, but it's it's making it really easy for everyone.

First of all, because we were very data oriented companies that the you know, the next generation and going out as much as anyone else. So nothing has really changed in terms of because you read all these art I saw it today this morning in the Guardian talking about people not going out anymore, like so, who are all these people going at every night of the week. Why is it that there's waiting this for all of these events because they're all sold out. So yeah, first of all, everyone is going out as much as they did, and I think maybe it's just an aging that people think that they don't. I think they also been ten years old. At Dice, we're seeing people who maybe started in the early twenties like still using dice and so the you know, we've seen a little bit of an increase on that as well, like people sort of you know going out and keep going out on Dice. But it is also like missle to say that Dice is just for like a younger demographic. It's a majority, sure, yeah, but we have lots of shows that hasn't an older audience. It was funny like, yeah, ten years ago, would anyone damnload an app to go to an event was like a thing, right, you know. We did Adele at Wembley Stadium and they're like, oh, how is the older fans going to use the phone? I'm like, you're literally texting me on your phone about this, Like people use their phones all the time, like it's so easy to use. So it's kind of just that thing. So I felt that that thing has gone away now, but it's it's making it really easy for everyone.

Yeah, for sure, you spoke to President Biden recently about you know, dynamic pricing, the ticket marketplace as all of that. Tell me a bit about meeting. Meeting mister Biden. You know what was that Like, what did that mean to you to be able to have that conversation?

Yeah, for sure, you spoke to President Biden recently about you know, dynamic pricing, the ticket marketplace as all of that. Tell me a bit about meeting. Meeting mister Biden. You know what was that Like, what did that mean to you to be able to have that conversation?

It was it was just normal, normal day.

It was it was just normal, normal day.

Yeah, yeah, it's fine.

Yeah, yeah, it's fine.

What are you doing on Wednesday? Okay? Yeah, but there are some funny stories about trying to get into the country because I was actually stopped really yeah, so I got to the security and they, yeah, they are super friendly, but they were like, oh, while you're in a wre you coming to the US, I have meetings. Where are your meetings? It's at the White House. Who are you meeting at the White House? I meeting the President and they're like, okay, come with me. And it sent me to the interrogation because it just like like it comes over on like a twelve dollars est divisa, like meeting the president. So yeah, it was crazy. Yeah, it was funny. And so it's funny. It's actually funny at the time because I'm like, this is going to be a good story one day for a podcast.

What are you doing on Wednesday? Okay? Yeah, but there are some funny stories about trying to get into the country because I was actually stopped really yeah, so I got to the security and they, yeah, they are super friendly, but they were like, oh, while you're in a wre you coming to the US, I have meetings. Where are your meetings? It's at the White House. Who are you meeting at the White House? I meeting the President and they're like, okay, come with me. And it sent me to the interrogation because it just like like it comes over on like a twelve dollars est divisa, like meeting the president. So yeah, it was crazy. Yeah, it was funny. And so it's funny. It's actually funny at the time because I'm like, this is going to be a good story one day for a podcast.

Yeah, and here we are.

Yeah, and here we are.

Here we are. But it was coming back on the plane because the whole thing was so surreal. It was only when it hit me, like why I was there like the only non American, Like I'm around the table. I mean we spoke to the present of like forty minutes after the press conference as well, and it was something that is super passionate about, you know, the the Drunk Fees Act. And I realized that because this has always been our DNA, because we've always been into upfront pricing because it make it really easy. My job is to reassure the others that it's actually a really good business model. Like I don't understand why there's all these I just I still don't understand like why people keep adding all these things and everything else, Like it just feels like you just lose consumer trust and so and as it was I mean Airbnb with that, I mean yeah, and it's kind of like that. You know, you go there and you're like, oh cool, it's like two hundred dollars a night, and then you get to the end it's like it's crazy fees. And I think that the more transparent everyone is, the better behavior it is on all sites, you know, in the terms of the Airbnb of like that price is up front, you know, those cleaning fees are like, you know, they can't get away with them, and so it's just good behavior. And I think that the conversation was very real. I think, you know, as a result of that and many other things that that actor has come into play, I feel like companies are sort of trending to be in more up from about how much something is.

Here we are. But it was coming back on the plane because the whole thing was so surreal. It was only when it hit me, like why I was there like the only non American, Like I'm around the table. I mean we spoke to the present of like forty minutes after the press conference as well, and it was something that is super passionate about, you know, the the Drunk Fees Act. And I realized that because this has always been our DNA, because we've always been into upfront pricing because it make it really easy. My job is to reassure the others that it's actually a really good business model. Like I don't understand why there's all these I just I still don't understand like why people keep adding all these things and everything else, Like it just feels like you just lose consumer trust and so and as it was I mean Airbnb with that, I mean yeah, and it's kind of like that. You know, you go there and you're like, oh cool, it's like two hundred dollars a night, and then you get to the end it's like it's crazy fees. And I think that the more transparent everyone is, the better behavior it is on all sites, you know, in the terms of the Airbnb of like that price is up front, you know, those cleaning fees are like, you know, they can't get away with them, and so it's just good behavior. And I think that the conversation was very real. I think, you know, as a result of that and many other things that that actor has come into play, I feel like companies are sort of trending to be in more up from about how much something is.

Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. I mean obviously there was an election recently, and do you think like that that will change it all. Are you still hopeful for the future of you know, ticketing in the US or you know, do you have any thoughts on that?

Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. I mean obviously there was an election recently, and do you think like that that will change it all. Are you still hopeful for the future of you know, ticketing in the US or you know, do you have any thoughts on that?

Yeah, I think it's just still the same consumers, you know, whether whoever they vote for. They don't want to get ripped off and they don't want to be exploited and they don't want to be paying like unnecessary fees, and so I think that that train has to I think social media has a big part to play there. You know, if you think about when this happens now fans get really angry and go back to my story at the beginning, like why did we set this up? The artist finds out straight away, the artist calls the manager, the manager calls the agent, the agent calls the promoter. So it's kind of like it's a thing now. And so I think that the more that fans, you know, make a big deal out of it, the faster things will change.

Yeah, I think it's just still the same consumers, you know, whether whoever they vote for. They don't want to get ripped off and they don't want to be exploited and they don't want to be paying like unnecessary fees, and so I think that that train has to I think social media has a big part to play there. You know, if you think about when this happens now fans get really angry and go back to my story at the beginning, like why did we set this up? The artist finds out straight away, the artist calls the manager, the manager calls the agent, the agent calls the promoter. So it's kind of like it's a thing now. And so I think that the more that fans, you know, make a big deal out of it, the faster things will change.

For sure. I mean why do you think that, like the Taylor, Swifts and Oasis of the world are still using ticket.

For sure. I mean why do you think that, like the Taylor, Swifts and Oasis of the world are still using ticket.

Aster Yeah, because they earned the rights of the venue. Yeah okay, yeah, yeah yeah, and they have to so yeah, okay, okay.

Aster Yeah, because they earned the rights of the venue. Yeah okay, yeah, yeah yeah, and they have to so yeah, okay, okay.

I mean looking forward, like, how do you hope to you know, sort of work with those venues you can work with those artists, Like, what what is the path forward there to? I guess make things more affordable like everyone.

I mean looking forward, like, how do you hope to you know, sort of work with those venues you can work with those artists, Like, what what is the path forward there to? I guess make things more affordable like everyone.

That's good because we get asked a lot like would you want to do you know, why do you do in the Taylor Swift shows? But she doesn't really need us, like because it's going to sell it anyway, right, you know what I mean? So our you know, the superpower of Dice is you know, getting is kind of more of the mid market so venues between like two hundred and like twelve thousand, and our thing is to you know, going back into that Dell concert, like the fans that bought a ticket to that, they kind of use Dice once or twice again. But like you're just talking about yourself how you used it all the time. Ye Like we've got fans and Dice who go to like two hundred and fifty shows a year.

That's good because we get asked a lot like would you want to do you know, why do you do in the Taylor Swift shows? But she doesn't really need us, like because it's going to sell it anyway, right, you know what I mean? So our you know, the superpower of Dice is you know, getting is kind of more of the mid market so venues between like two hundred and like twelve thousand, and our thing is to you know, going back into that Dell concert, like the fans that bought a ticket to that, they kind of use Dice once or twice again. But like you're just talking about yourself how you used it all the time. Ye Like we've got fans and Dice who go to like two hundred and fifty shows a year.

Yeah probably mean.

Yeah probably mean.

Yeah, yeah yeah probably you yeah. But there is like you know, tens of thousands of fans like in London who go out at least one hundred times a year on Dice. And so for us as the I kind of like this world. I like the idea of almost like using a lot of the aspects that get people to use social medium within Dice to get them to go up more too, and that's why we want to dig more into in this world where you know, think I hear like people you know and CEOs talk about learning as bi it. You generally think that DICE actually helps people like meet other people, and so you know, you can be very isolating, particularly in the big city. So getting people out more is a is a cool thing to do.

Yeah, yeah yeah probably you yeah. But there is like you know, tens of thousands of fans like in London who go out at least one hundred times a year on Dice. And so for us as the I kind of like this world. I like the idea of almost like using a lot of the aspects that get people to use social medium within Dice to get them to go up more too, and that's why we want to dig more into in this world where you know, think I hear like people you know and CEOs talk about learning as bi it. You generally think that DICE actually helps people like meet other people, and so you know, you can be very isolating, particularly in the big city. So getting people out more is a is a cool thing to do.

I know. There's also a new marketplace that I think launch this year where artists can sell experiences and merch What makes that different from the traditional route and how does that fit into the DICE ETOs.

I know. There's also a new marketplace that I think launch this year where artists can sell experiences and merch What makes that different from the traditional route and how does that fit into the DICE ETOs.

So we have a thesis around online and offline that everything online is ubiquitous and often free, and you get anything you want, but a live event is scats and it only happens once. And so when we're looking at products and working with artists, we're talking about things that you can only get if you're attending the show. So it's like dedicated products, not necessarily just merchandise. So for example, we have some artists who will sign a set list, take a photo of it, and you can sell that through the app. Things that make it. Going back to what I was saying earlier around anticipation, participation in memory like something as a memory for us, it's like, can we help artists create like a shirt that is just for that one event? And so as a fan five years later, you open your drawer and you're like, oh, look, that's when you know I've played in London and it's like yeah, and it kind of brings it back and it's cool and it's physical and you know it. And so for us, as you know, we've got you hear this word super fan banded around quite a lot. But do think that somebod who pays money to go see an artists perform is really like a super fan. And so if the artist is able to sell directly to that super fan, and that super fan appreciates that that merch or product is like unique to that show, then it's good for everyone.

So we have a thesis around online and offline that everything online is ubiquitous and often free, and you get anything you want, but a live event is scats and it only happens once. And so when we're looking at products and working with artists, we're talking about things that you can only get if you're attending the show. So it's like dedicated products, not necessarily just merchandise. So for example, we have some artists who will sign a set list, take a photo of it, and you can sell that through the app. Things that make it. Going back to what I was saying earlier around anticipation, participation in memory like something as a memory for us, it's like, can we help artists create like a shirt that is just for that one event? And so as a fan five years later, you open your drawer and you're like, oh, look, that's when you know I've played in London and it's like yeah, and it kind of brings it back and it's cool and it's physical and you know it. And so for us, as you know, we've got you hear this word super fan banded around quite a lot. But do think that somebod who pays money to go see an artists perform is really like a super fan. And so if the artist is able to sell directly to that super fan, and that super fan appreciates that that merch or product is like unique to that show, then it's good for everyone.

You know.

You know.

That definitely was something that we saw during the pandemic. I think pre pandemic, particularly bands used to think that it wasn't you know, cool to like work with brands or anything else and then also ask fans for money. And then during the pandemic, because of all the live streaming and everything else and ticulate live streams that whether it's unconscious or not that fans realize that artists need to make money to keep going. And so for us with the artists commerce and all the cash going to the artists is like you read a lot of stories about how streaming is reducing, you know, the income that that artists are getting. Well, yeah, here's a way to like help artists generate enough money to put out more great songs for sure.

That definitely was something that we saw during the pandemic. I think pre pandemic, particularly bands used to think that it wasn't you know, cool to like work with brands or anything else and then also ask fans for money. And then during the pandemic, because of all the live streaming and everything else and ticulate live streams that whether it's unconscious or not that fans realize that artists need to make money to keep going. And so for us with the artists commerce and all the cash going to the artists is like you read a lot of stories about how streaming is reducing, you know, the income that that artists are getting. Well, yeah, here's a way to like help artists generate enough money to put out more great songs for sure.

And it's also become so much harder for artists to tour, specifically that like middle market. I think we're seeing a lot of artists speaking out saying, hey, I can't go on tour this year, like you know, and I think that that's something that is obviously very sad and something that they need to need to sort of effect. But you know, how can Dice help with that?

And it's also become so much harder for artists to tour, specifically that like middle market. I think we're seeing a lot of artists speaking out saying, hey, I can't go on tour this year, like you know, and I think that that's something that is obviously very sad and something that they need to need to sort of effect. But you know, how can Dice help with that?

Yeah, well that's actually was sort of alluding to Earliot. So if any artists are listening to this, like get in touch, Like what where we can help is figure out where you should play and where you shouldn't play, right, And quite often you might go to the agent and they're like, Okay, here's fifteen shows and we're not really thinking about it. And so I think that artists can use data to really like think about things. And it's around pricing as well. To be honest, we hear a lot about how prices are expensive, but there's a lot of shows that are too cheap, you know, Like you've got these artist whore spending so much money on the production and everything else, and the ticket you know, is like twenty pounds. Yeah, and you're like, okay, that's that's nice that you're doing that. But if you charge like twenty six find's going to be okay about it. You've got plenty of massive weight lists, but it's it's helping them feel okay about that. And then there's some shows that they're charging way too much. So again like you know, you need to reduce this. If you really wanted to like pack this out, the price should be this instead. And so yeah, we can help like you know, figure out like what the sweet spot is because you really just want to get as many people into the show as possible. And then that kind of like benefits everyone as opposed to you know, maybe you're pricing incorrectly or playing in the wrong city or anything else. And so yeah, I do think that we can help those artists who kind of struggle across the board to make money to be more targeted. Yeah, for sure. Very cool.

Yeah, well that's actually was sort of alluding to Earliot. So if any artists are listening to this, like get in touch, Like what where we can help is figure out where you should play and where you shouldn't play, right, And quite often you might go to the agent and they're like, Okay, here's fifteen shows and we're not really thinking about it. And so I think that artists can use data to really like think about things. And it's around pricing as well. To be honest, we hear a lot about how prices are expensive, but there's a lot of shows that are too cheap, you know, Like you've got these artist whore spending so much money on the production and everything else, and the ticket you know, is like twenty pounds. Yeah, and you're like, okay, that's that's nice that you're doing that. But if you charge like twenty six find's going to be okay about it. You've got plenty of massive weight lists, but it's it's helping them feel okay about that. And then there's some shows that they're charging way too much. So again like you know, you need to reduce this. If you really wanted to like pack this out, the price should be this instead. And so yeah, we can help like you know, figure out like what the sweet spot is because you really just want to get as many people into the show as possible. And then that kind of like benefits everyone as opposed to you know, maybe you're pricing incorrectly or playing in the wrong city or anything else. And so yeah, I do think that we can help those artists who kind of struggle across the board to make money to be more targeted. Yeah, for sure. Very cool.

Looking back in the past decade, what would you say has been like your proudest moment or like your favorite show the past ten years that you've been a part of.

Looking back in the past decade, what would you say has been like your proudest moment or like your favorite show the past ten years that you've been a part of.

Yeah. So, I mean it's only because I said not very nostalgic. So I think the Cure, like a few weeks ago, the Cure.

Yeah. So, I mean it's only because I said not very nostalgic. So I think the Cure, like a few weeks ago, the Cure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. So they played one show in twenty twenty four, no pressure, like and and we did all of the tickets in a three thousand capacity venue and uh, you know, one hundred thousand people like in the first second trying to get tickets.

Yeah. So they played one show in twenty twenty four, no pressure, like and and we did all of the tickets in a three thousand capacity venue and uh, you know, one hundred thousand people like in the first second trying to get tickets.

Yeah, I lost out on that one. Yeah.

Yeah, I lost out on that one. Yeah.

Yeah, to get wead I see someone got wait list like some really yeah yeah, they posted it there. Yeah, and it just went like two minutes, it's gone, everything's done. And I think that after the experience of like some big acts, like you've taken nine hours to get a ticket to have that done, and then going on to Reddit and seen like fans like being bombed out that they didn't get a ticket, but kind of like cool that it's sort of yeah, it just worked. And so that was, you know, a pretty big moment particularly because you know, Robert Smith Cure was talking about ticketing so much and everything else, and for that from end to end, no scalping, tickets went at the right price, everyone got in amazing atmosphere. You say it was good.

Yeah, to get wead I see someone got wait list like some really yeah yeah, they posted it there. Yeah, and it just went like two minutes, it's gone, everything's done. And I think that after the experience of like some big acts, like you've taken nine hours to get a ticket to have that done, and then going on to Reddit and seen like fans like being bombed out that they didn't get a ticket, but kind of like cool that it's sort of yeah, it just worked. And so that was, you know, a pretty big moment particularly because you know, Robert Smith Cure was talking about ticketing so much and everything else, and for that from end to end, no scalping, tickets went at the right price, everyone got in amazing atmosphere. You say it was good.

I thought Robert was a very happy man.

I thought Robert was a very happy man.

Yeah, yeah, or maybe not because we like being sad. Yeah, like that's true.

Yeah, yeah, or maybe not because we like being sad. Yeah, like that's true.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, amazing. I mean when you look forward to the next ten years of Dice, so what are some of those broad goals that you have. How do you help to see the company grow while still maintaining you know what we talked about with this sort of like middle market area and really catering to the fans.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, amazing. I mean when you look forward to the next ten years of Dice, so what are some of those broad goals that you have. How do you help to see the company grow while still maintaining you know what we talked about with this sort of like middle market area and really catering to the fans.

First of all, is the geographic expansion, like just going everywhere and having Dice in all the top cities. Second, is the your community aspect, the idea that you know, more and more fans getting together. You know, we live in such a divisive word world and different opinions, and you know this tournament presidency and everything else, but music is like a really cool unifier and getting people chatting to each other and everything else. I think it's it's good. And then the commerce aspect, really helping artists to tour effectively being able to go everywhere that they're like because I honestly believe this is the best time in history to be in music. I think if you think about like every everyone thinks that the last year was better or the last generation was better. But now you can put out a song and that song can go viral, like, you know, almost instantly, and also you know, everyone around the world can hear that song instantly. And then from a touring perspective, it's kind of I really love seeing you know, Southeast Asian artists like coming on DICE because they just book the shows directly, they just book then they just do it and they sell out and they do these things and they've got the merchant and they do and I do think that's a blueprint for you know, for the future where you know, you know, artists can feel confident that they can go to any country in the world and as long as there's an audience so that they can do something really great.

First of all, is the geographic expansion, like just going everywhere and having Dice in all the top cities. Second, is the your community aspect, the idea that you know, more and more fans getting together. You know, we live in such a divisive word world and different opinions, and you know this tournament presidency and everything else, but music is like a really cool unifier and getting people chatting to each other and everything else. I think it's it's good. And then the commerce aspect, really helping artists to tour effectively being able to go everywhere that they're like because I honestly believe this is the best time in history to be in music. I think if you think about like every everyone thinks that the last year was better or the last generation was better. But now you can put out a song and that song can go viral, like, you know, almost instantly, and also you know, everyone around the world can hear that song instantly. And then from a touring perspective, it's kind of I really love seeing you know, Southeast Asian artists like coming on DICE because they just book the shows directly, they just book then they just do it and they sell out and they do these things and they've got the merchant and they do and I do think that's a blueprint for you know, for the future where you know, you know, artists can feel confident that they can go to any country in the world and as long as there's an audience so that they can do something really great.

Thanks for listening to Strictly Business And if you want to know more about DICE or see what kind of cool shows they're throwing in your city, download the DICE app. In the meantime, please leave US, a review at Apple podcasts at Amazon Music, and come back next week for another episode.

Thanks for listening to Strictly Business And if you want to know more about DICE or see what kind of cool shows they're throwing in your city, download the DICE app. In the meantime, please leave US, a review at Apple podcasts at Amazon Music, and come back next week for another episode.