Instead of the “Trump bump” we were talking about at the beginning of the year, a combination of mass terminations across the federal government (many of which may be illegal), sweeping tariffs and a whole lot of uncertainty could be leading to a Trump slump. Or is it, as Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent reassured us this week, just a period of transition?

That’s the question we tackle on this episode of Trumponomics. Host Stephanie Flanders speaks with Evercore ISI’s Kathryn Holston, who served as a White House senior economist last year and before that in the office of the chief economist of the World Bank, and Anna Wong, chief US economist for Bloomberg Economics.