I'm Gretchen Whitmer, the forty ninth Governor of the Great State of Michigan.

I'm Gretchen Whitmer, the forty ninth Governor of the Great State of Michigan.

Welcome back to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk with women who dare to pivot out of one career and into something new and explore how their personal lives impacts these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. This week we had a very special live episode with Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer from our conversation at sixth to nine in Washington, DC. When we began planning this season, I knew I wanted to have someone on the show who could speak to the political climate that we're in while also providing insight on how progress is possible. And Governor Whitmer is no stranger to challenge. From navigating a plot to kidnap and kill her to facing a global pandemic, the governor has led through difficult times. Now in the midst of a mini plot twist, Governor Whitmer has taken on a new title New York Times best selling author with her book True Gretch and the new young adult edition. During our conversation, she shares key pieces of wisdom from the book that have shaped her trailblazing career, while merging our favorite topic, the personal and the professional, as she shares her experience as part of the Sandwich generation taking care of her newborn and her own mother, all while starting her political career in the Michigan legislature. Plus, she answers one very important question, will she pivot again, perhaps to one important office. This is an episode you don't want to miss. Thank you so much to sixth and I, a center for arts, entertainment, ideas and Jewish life in Washington, d C, for hosting this amazing conversation. Let's jump right in. Oh my god, Welcome Governor to d C. Thank you.

Welcome back to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk with women who dare to pivot out of one career and into something new and explore how their personal lives impacts these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. This week we had a very special live episode with Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer from our conversation at sixth to nine in Washington, DC. When we began planning this season, I knew I wanted to have someone on the show who could speak to the political climate that we're in while also providing insight on how progress is possible. And Governor Whitmer is no stranger to challenge. From navigating a plot to kidnap and kill her to facing a global pandemic, the governor has led through difficult times. Now in the midst of a mini plot twist, Governor Whitmer has taken on a new title New York Times best selling author with her book True Gretch and the new young adult edition. During our conversation, she shares key pieces of wisdom from the book that have shaped her trailblazing career, while merging our favorite topic, the personal and the professional, as she shares her experience as part of the Sandwich generation taking care of her newborn and her own mother, all while starting her political career in the Michigan legislature. Plus, she answers one very important question, will she pivot again, perhaps to one important office. This is an episode you don't want to miss. Thank you so much to sixth and I, a center for arts, entertainment, ideas and Jewish life in Washington, d C, for hosting this amazing conversation. Let's jump right in. Oh my god, Welcome Governor to d C. Thank you.

It's good to be here, the good people of d C. Oh an Alliance fan there. Nice to see you. All right, I have.

It's good to be here, the good people of d C. Oh an Alliance fan there. Nice to see you. All right, I have.

To feel that we have more than one Lions fan in the room here, or at least a big Gretch fans for sure. Okay, so we're gonna back it up. We're gonna jump right in. All right, it's back it up, little gretch. Give me, little gretch, what did you want to be when you grew up?

To feel that we have more than one Lions fan in the room here, or at least a big Gretch fans for sure. Okay, so we're gonna back it up. We're gonna jump right in. All right, it's back it up, little gretch. Give me, little gretch, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Little Gretch? Wanted to be a sports broadcaster. Actually, I could have met another life. Actually that would have been fun. But I'm glad to be here with you now that you know. When I went to Michigan State, I thought I was going to be a sports broadcaster. All right, go green, go white. I heard someone, and I see you go blue people out there too, And I went to Michigan State. It was right down the street from the state Capitol. And my dad, who saw that I was taking all my communications classes and a couple of elect is like Bowling, suggested that I do an internship down at the capitol. And one of the things he said was, there's so few people. And I think it's really true today, even more today, So a few people understand how state government works or how government works, right civics. They said, go down and do an internship at the capitol, and maybe you hate it, maybe you love it, but you'll you'll come away understanding state government better and it'll carry you into wherever you go, put you on stronger footing. And I fell in love with public policy. And that's kind of when I when I pivoted the early pivot.

Little Gretch? Wanted to be a sports broadcaster. Actually, I could have met another life. Actually that would have been fun. But I'm glad to be here with you now that you know. When I went to Michigan State, I thought I was going to be a sports broadcaster. All right, go green, go white. I heard someone, and I see you go blue people out there too, And I went to Michigan State. It was right down the street from the state Capitol. And my dad, who saw that I was taking all my communications classes and a couple of elect is like Bowling, suggested that I do an internship down at the capitol. And one of the things he said was, there's so few people. And I think it's really true today, even more today, So a few people understand how state government works or how government works, right civics. They said, go down and do an internship at the capitol, and maybe you hate it, maybe you love it, but you'll you'll come away understanding state government better and it'll carry you into wherever you go, put you on stronger footing. And I fell in love with public policy. And that's kind of when I when I pivoted the early pivot.

Do you think that you use anything from that early sports journalism passion in the work that you do today?

Do you think that you use anything from that early sports journalism passion in the work that you do today?

Oh that's a good that's a good question. Yeah. I think teams. I think team sports is really a great way, especially for women, to learn about leadership and teamwork and how to take a loss and dust yourself off. And so definitely the sports background I think informs a lot of how I show up today. Yeah.

Oh that's a good that's a good question. Yeah. I think teams. I think team sports is really a great way, especially for women, to learn about leadership and teamwork and how to take a loss and dust yourself off. And so definitely the sports background I think informs a lot of how I show up today. Yeah.

Well, since I'm now dying to wade into this Michigan State University of Mission, now I will tell you both my mother went to DUM and my grandparents met there. Wow, so we actually have some deep Michigan ties.

Well, since I'm now dying to wade into this Michigan State University of Mission, now I will tell you both my mother went to DUM and my grandparents met there. Wow, so we actually have some deep Michigan ties.

And I was just on this side. He asked a couple of questions. Everyone's got some link back to Michigan. I think I am a Spartan who spawned Wolverine. So my one of my daughters is right there, and she's graduating in a few months from University of Michigan.

And I was just on this side. He asked a couple of questions. Everyone's got some link back to Michigan. I think I am a Spartan who spawned Wolverine. So my one of my daughters is right there, and she's graduating in a few months from University of Michigan.

So look, nothing creates unity like a good rivalry. So we're going to get the audience up here in it. Anyway.

So look, nothing creates unity like a good rivalry. So we're going to get the audience up here in it. Anyway.

Yeah, I mean, how was that basketball game the other night, Sydney.

Yeah, I mean, how was that basketball game the other night, Sydney.

So once you decided politics, I mean, you you did the internship, you got into it was that it you said, okay now I'm in Or did you ever even consider anything else.

So once you decided politics, I mean, you you did the internship, you got into it was that it you said, okay now I'm in Or did you ever even consider anything else.

At that point, you know, I fell in love with it because I saw the difference. So I was as a junior, your staffer, you do the hard work of the community, the constituent work, and so I learned about so much about the people of Michigan who were reaching into state government, who needed help with this or that. And I was someone who was able to help connect people at times or give them, you know, information that they were seeking. And it was really about people. It's why I love this work. Even on the hardest day, and Lord knows, I've had more than my share of hard days in this job the last seven years. But even on the hardest day there I get joy out of knowing that I'm helping people or I'm doing something that makes a difference in people's lives. So that part of the job I really, I really love and I learned that early on that that was public service. That's what it's all about.

At that point, you know, I fell in love with it because I saw the difference. So I was as a junior, your staffer, you do the hard work of the community, the constituent work, and so I learned about so much about the people of Michigan who were reaching into state government, who needed help with this or that. And I was someone who was able to help connect people at times or give them, you know, information that they were seeking. And it was really about people. It's why I love this work. Even on the hardest day, and Lord knows, I've had more than my share of hard days in this job the last seven years. But even on the hardest day there I get joy out of knowing that I'm helping people or I'm doing something that makes a difference in people's lives. So that part of the job I really, I really love and I learned that early on that that was public service. That's what it's all about.

Yeah, you had an early formative experience at the beginning of it something that so many people of our generation are dealing with. The Sandwich generation of caring for your mother, your newborn, and in a new job all at the same time. I mean, how what were your coping mechanisms and what was your decision making look like at that point.

Yeah, you had an early formative experience at the beginning of it something that so many people of our generation are dealing with. The Sandwich generation of caring for your mother, your newborn, and in a new job all at the same time. I mean, how what were your coping mechanisms and what was your decision making look like at that point.

So you know, in the year two thousand, I was running for the State House, was the first office that I had run for. I was elected, got married, and my mother had fallen ill with glioblastoma multiform, which is the worst kind of brain cancer you can get, and she was told she'd have maybe four to six months to live. I was pregnant with my first child and a new member of the Michigan Legislature. They say the five hardest things that you'll do in the course of your life is to have a child, the death of a loved one, a new job, moving your home. All of these things happened to me in that first that first year I was in the legislature.

So you know, in the year two thousand, I was running for the State House, was the first office that I had run for. I was elected, got married, and my mother had fallen ill with glioblastoma multiform, which is the worst kind of brain cancer you can get, and she was told she'd have maybe four to six months to live. I was pregnant with my first child and a new member of the Michigan Legislature. They say the five hardest things that you'll do in the course of your life is to have a child, the death of a loved one, a new job, moving your home. All of these things happened to me in that first that first year I was in the legislature.

And yet I.

And yet I.

Think I learned that during that period of time really forged who I am today. They have no patience for bs, and I don't have time to try to be something I'm not. I don't have energy or time to do that, and so it's helped me show up I think as I am, and certainly a lot of women who came before me made that easier for me, and women in my generation to be our authentic selves and to feel like we can show up as we are. But I think, you know, I often talk in sports analogies, now you know why, But you know, instead of looking at the one hundred yards down the field, looking at the next ten, And I think that's how I manage through that time. What do I need to do today or this week or this month to get through all of the pressures that I'm navigating as a member of the Sandwich generation, a new legislator.

Think I learned that during that period of time really forged who I am today. They have no patience for bs, and I don't have time to try to be something I'm not. I don't have energy or time to do that, and so it's helped me show up I think as I am, and certainly a lot of women who came before me made that easier for me, and women in my generation to be our authentic selves and to feel like we can show up as we are. But I think, you know, I often talk in sports analogies, now you know why, But you know, instead of looking at the one hundred yards down the field, looking at the next ten, And I think that's how I manage through that time. What do I need to do today or this week or this month to get through all of the pressures that I'm navigating as a member of the Sandwich generation, a new legislator.

Yeah, Otherwise it would just feel overwhelming.

Yeah, Otherwise it would just feel overwhelming.

Yeah, I mean when you think about how where am I going to be? You know, how do I get that full one hundred yards? And you should always have a plan, but you got to focus on the now, and that's that you can take small bites and that's the easiest way to do it. And I think I definitely tapped into those that skillut the pandemic, especially when everything felt so overwhelming, but to do the next right thing. And I talk a little bit about doing the next right thing in the.

Yeah, I mean when you think about how where am I going to be? You know, how do I get that full one hundred yards? And you should always have a plan, but you got to focus on the now, and that's that you can take small bites and that's the easiest way to do it. And I think I definitely tapped into those that skillut the pandemic, especially when everything felt so overwhelming, but to do the next right thing. And I talk a little bit about doing the next right thing in the.

Book Oh Don't Why We're definitely the pandemic. That topic we will cover. So a large part of this show and the way we tell stories is the intersection of the personal and professional, So trying to open up how these personal things that happen in our lives end up impacting our professional decision making. So at that time, how did your version of success change or was it the same?

Book Oh Don't Why We're definitely the pandemic. That topic we will cover. So a large part of this show and the way we tell stories is the intersection of the personal and professional, So trying to open up how these personal things that happen in our lives end up impacting our professional decision making. So at that time, how did your version of success change or was it the same?

Yeah, it's interesting. People often ask you, know what, when you had kids, did your opinions change? Did you change your values at all? And I would say no, not at all. My patients did I have zero patients for boloney? I because I don't have time to wait for someone else to fix an issue. I want to do it because I think about the world that my kids are growing up in, and that people their age are growing up in, and so so as I as I think about how we are navigating, you know, the chaos today or the crises of the last few years, Centering on that is what helps me stay true to who I am and why I'm doing this job, but also to keep me grounded. And nothing keeps you more grounded than kids who do not think you're cool, even when other people might.

Yeah, it's interesting. People often ask you, know what, when you had kids, did your opinions change? Did you change your values at all? And I would say no, not at all. My patients did I have zero patients for boloney? I because I don't have time to wait for someone else to fix an issue. I want to do it because I think about the world that my kids are growing up in, and that people their age are growing up in, and so so as I as I think about how we are navigating, you know, the chaos today or the crises of the last few years, Centering on that is what helps me stay true to who I am and why I'm doing this job, but also to keep me grounded. And nothing keeps you more grounded than kids who do not think you're cool, even when other people might.

I mean impressive that you even got her to come with you.

I mean impressive that you even got her to come with you.

I begged her. We were at the White House for dinner last night, so she was my date and I begged her to come right.

I begged her. We were at the White House for dinner last night, so she was my date and I begged her to come right.

Care to elaborate on that dinner.

Care to elaborate on that dinner.

No, we'll leave it at that.

No, we'll leave it at that.

You went on to become the first woman to be chosen a Senate minority leader in your state's history. Were there moments during that time you thought, I mean there must have been we were like, Okay, I'm super good at this, like I'm nailing this. Like what were those moments for.

You went on to become the first woman to be chosen a Senate minority leader in your state's history. Were there moments during that time you thought, I mean there must have been we were like, Okay, I'm super good at this, like I'm nailing this. Like what were those moments for.

You when I felt like I was nailing ass?

You when I felt like I was nailing ass?

Yeah, like I am amazing at being the state SENI majority of the never you know, I remember my mom, who I talk a lot about in the book.

Yeah, like I am amazing at being the state SENI majority of the never you know, I remember my mom, who I talk a lot about in the book.

She was really a glass ceiling breaker. She was this blonde, blue eyed like little woman with this big personality, this large laugh. She just exuded such confidence and she was one of the she wrote all the book awards in her year. She graduated law school while she was raising us three. Like, she was just this powerhouse of a person. And I'll never forget her telling me that sometimes she was as one of the top people in the Attorney General's office in Michigan, she sometimes would sit there and think, I wonder if they're going to figure out that I'm not supposed to belong here. You know, that kind of imposter syndrome thing that that I think we all feel at certain points.

She was really a glass ceiling breaker. She was this blonde, blue eyed like little woman with this big personality, this large laugh. She just exuded such confidence and she was one of the she wrote all the book awards in her year. She graduated law school while she was raising us three. Like, she was just this powerhouse of a person. And I'll never forget her telling me that sometimes she was as one of the top people in the Attorney General's office in Michigan, she sometimes would sit there and think, I wonder if they're going to figure out that I'm not supposed to belong here. You know, that kind of imposter syndrome thing that that I think we all feel at certain points.

In time, and we done it right now.

In time, and we done it right now.

I mean, we don't come out of the womb thinking that we deserve to be, you know, the leader of the free world.

I mean, we don't come out of the womb thinking that we deserve to be, you know, the leader of the free world.

Right.

Right.

We all put these criteria on ourselves. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. It keeps you humble. But it also, I think, is why I never during the time did I still marvel and people like governor. You know, it's just I feel really lucky to be where I'm at, and I know I'm not better than anyone else. And I talk a little bit about my dad. When I first got elected. He did an interview and he said, you know, Gretchen knows she's not special. And I saw that, and Brent, I thought, oh my god, people must think my dad hates me or something, or I have really low self esteem, or but he raised us to so that we didn't think we were better than anyone else. That's what he meant, and we don't. And I think I never felt like, Okay, I'm really killing it. I saw a job that needed to be done. I didn't see anyone stepping forward who wanted to take it on or who was going to be, you know, able to jump in and do what I thought needed to be done. So, like a lot of women, I think I just rolled up my sleeve and said, all right, there's a job that needs to be done, I'm going to do it. Yeah.

We all put these criteria on ourselves. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. It keeps you humble. But it also, I think, is why I never during the time did I still marvel and people like governor. You know, it's just I feel really lucky to be where I'm at, and I know I'm not better than anyone else. And I talk a little bit about my dad. When I first got elected. He did an interview and he said, you know, Gretchen knows she's not special. And I saw that, and Brent, I thought, oh my god, people must think my dad hates me or something, or I have really low self esteem, or but he raised us to so that we didn't think we were better than anyone else. That's what he meant, and we don't. And I think I never felt like, Okay, I'm really killing it. I saw a job that needed to be done. I didn't see anyone stepping forward who wanted to take it on or who was going to be, you know, able to jump in and do what I thought needed to be done. So, like a lot of women, I think I just rolled up my sleeve and said, all right, there's a job that needs to be done, I'm going to do it. Yeah.

I do want to ask about your decision to run for governor at the time that you did, because you had passed on it in twenty fourteen and then you decided to run. So what was that timing decision for you? And again, like, what was your decision making process.

I do want to ask about your decision to run for governor at the time that you did, because you had passed on it in twenty fourteen and then you decided to run. So what was that timing decision for you? And again, like, what was your decision making process.

Well, in twenty fourteen, you know, I was in the state Senate and some had asked if I might consider running for governor, and it just wasn't the right time for me. I was, you know, I was already the Senate Minority leader. I have two little kids at home as a divorce at that time, and I knew that it wasn't the right time. I had a big job and I wanted to see a focus on that. I left the legislature in twenty sixteen. We have term limits in Michigan. I served three two year terms in the House and then two four year terms in the Senate, and I was term limited out. It's lifetime ban, so you can't go back. And I really thought I was going to go into the private sector. And I taught both at the University of Michigan and Michigan State, which tells you I can bridge some divides or the biggest the biggest divide. And the Flint water crisis became public what had happened in Flint, decisions of government that had catastrophic impacts on people. And I was looking at the field of folks that were considering running and I thought, you know, none of them have been in state government. I know how to do this, and this needs to be fixed. And so that's really kind of what inspired me to run. But then Donald Trump won the state of Michigan in twenty sixteen, and I looked, you know, I couldn't believe that my state was played a pivotal role in that, and I thought, I got to get organized. I got to get out into this state and talk to people and find out what's on their minds, because it just was so hard to believe at the time, here we are. And so I got out. I got all across Michigan. Michigan's a big state, all right, I'm gonna get out my Michigan map. You're ready, Okay. So Michigan has two hands, and this is the lower Peninsula, this is the Upper Peninsula. I know people in Michigan or in Ohio who don't realize we have an upper Peninsula. It's not Canada, the fifty first state. It's still a part of Michigan. Okay, So I see we're really writing off Ohio anywaytisicadding. But when you're in Lansing, Michigan, the state capital, you're as close to Washington, d c. As you are to the western end of the Upper Peninsula. It's a big state. And so I figured I just got to get across the state and talk to people. And so my favorite thing to ask people was, if I'm fortunate enough to get elected governor, what could I do that'll make your life better? And the thing is when you ask people, they'll tell you you just got to listen. I don't think enough people do that, not just in political life, but anywhere, and over and over again people would say, I need you to fix the damn roads. Whether I was in the Upper Peninsula or downtown Detroit or on the West Side. That was the refrain, and I heard it over and over again, and so I started talking about the roads that way, and we're still working on fixing the damn roads in Michigan. But it was a conversation with a woman from Flint of actually I'm talking about Flint again. She I met her at the Detroit Children's Hospital, and you know, I was there and it's awkward to be a politician in a place where people don't expect you, and I wasn't sure people would want to talk to me at all. But this woman seemed, you know, friendly, and so I said, I got to ask you a question. So I asked her my question. If I'm fortunate enough to get elected, what could I do that I'll.

Well, in twenty fourteen, you know, I was in the state Senate and some had asked if I might consider running for governor, and it just wasn't the right time for me. I was, you know, I was already the Senate Minority leader. I have two little kids at home as a divorce at that time, and I knew that it wasn't the right time. I had a big job and I wanted to see a focus on that. I left the legislature in twenty sixteen. We have term limits in Michigan. I served three two year terms in the House and then two four year terms in the Senate, and I was term limited out. It's lifetime ban, so you can't go back. And I really thought I was going to go into the private sector. And I taught both at the University of Michigan and Michigan State, which tells you I can bridge some divides or the biggest the biggest divide. And the Flint water crisis became public what had happened in Flint, decisions of government that had catastrophic impacts on people. And I was looking at the field of folks that were considering running and I thought, you know, none of them have been in state government. I know how to do this, and this needs to be fixed. And so that's really kind of what inspired me to run. But then Donald Trump won the state of Michigan in twenty sixteen, and I looked, you know, I couldn't believe that my state was played a pivotal role in that, and I thought, I got to get organized. I got to get out into this state and talk to people and find out what's on their minds, because it just was so hard to believe at the time, here we are. And so I got out. I got all across Michigan. Michigan's a big state, all right, I'm gonna get out my Michigan map. You're ready, Okay. So Michigan has two hands, and this is the lower Peninsula, this is the Upper Peninsula. I know people in Michigan or in Ohio who don't realize we have an upper Peninsula. It's not Canada, the fifty first state. It's still a part of Michigan. Okay, So I see we're really writing off Ohio anywaytisicadding. But when you're in Lansing, Michigan, the state capital, you're as close to Washington, d c. As you are to the western end of the Upper Peninsula. It's a big state. And so I figured I just got to get across the state and talk to people. And so my favorite thing to ask people was, if I'm fortunate enough to get elected governor, what could I do that'll make your life better? And the thing is when you ask people, they'll tell you you just got to listen. I don't think enough people do that, not just in political life, but anywhere, and over and over again people would say, I need you to fix the damn roads. Whether I was in the Upper Peninsula or downtown Detroit or on the West Side. That was the refrain, and I heard it over and over again, and so I started talking about the roads that way, and we're still working on fixing the damn roads in Michigan. But it was a conversation with a woman from Flint of actually I'm talking about Flint again. She I met her at the Detroit Children's Hospital, and you know, I was there and it's awkward to be a politician in a place where people don't expect you, and I wasn't sure people would want to talk to me at all. But this woman seemed, you know, friendly, and so I said, I got to ask you a question. So I asked her my question. If I'm fortunate enough to get elected, what could I do that I'll.

Make your life better?

Make your life better?

And she looked me there and she said, I just need you to fix the damn road. And I was taken aback a little bit, like we're going to children's hospital. I thought we're going to talk about healthcare or childcare education. So I said, okay, tell me more. I wanted to find out why is this the number one issue for you? And she explained she's three kids, driving back and forth from Detroit and Flint to see her one child in the hospital, hit a pothole, It damaged the room on her car. It took her off the road for a whole day, took a ton of money out of her rent and childcare that she wasn't planning to spend fixing her car. She missed the day with her son in Detroit, had to pay for childcare for the others who were at home. And so it was for me crystallized why the fundamentals are the most important thing, Because anyone who's on the margin gets failed if they can't drink the water coming out of their tap, or they have to be sidelined for a day because their car's not work, or have to find a new school or a tutor for a child if the schools aren't work. And that's why the fundamentals, the kitchen table issues, is what I've tried to stay focused on. And that's what I learned from the people in Michigan, getting all across the state and asking that question, well do.

And she looked me there and she said, I just need you to fix the damn road. And I was taken aback a little bit, like we're going to children's hospital. I thought we're going to talk about healthcare or childcare education. So I said, okay, tell me more. I wanted to find out why is this the number one issue for you? And she explained she's three kids, driving back and forth from Detroit and Flint to see her one child in the hospital, hit a pothole, It damaged the room on her car. It took her off the road for a whole day, took a ton of money out of her rent and childcare that she wasn't planning to spend fixing her car. She missed the day with her son in Detroit, had to pay for childcare for the others who were at home. And so it was for me crystallized why the fundamentals are the most important thing, Because anyone who's on the margin gets failed if they can't drink the water coming out of their tap, or they have to be sidelined for a day because their car's not work, or have to find a new school or a tutor for a child if the schools aren't work. And that's why the fundamentals, the kitchen table issues, is what I've tried to stay focused on. And that's what I learned from the people in Michigan, getting all across the state and asking that question, well do.

You think that concept of fixed the damn roads? How did you have success with that as a fundamental? I mean, to your point, we still need to fix the roads, something that I think that Democrats have really struggled with is owning success in a way they can talk about it. How have you been able to own that success when dens acknowledgment there's still more work to be done.

You think that concept of fixed the damn roads? How did you have success with that as a fundamental? I mean, to your point, we still need to fix the roads, something that I think that Democrats have really struggled with is owning success in a way they can talk about it. How have you been able to own that success when dens acknowledgment there's still more work to be done.

Yeah, so I ended up having to do a bond so that we could keep fixing roads. I'm still working on getting my legislature to help me get a real long term plane over the finish line. The thing about roads is that you have billboards everywhere because they're called orange barrels, and so when you're fixing roads, people see the orange barrels and they know that the work is being done, and that helps kind of advertise itself. But to your point about Democrats failing on the messaging front, I think that that's one of the big takeaways from this last cycle, and I think that that's getting away from taking ownership of the things that we did get done. I think it was a real you know, we did allows your job of that in this last cycle.

Yeah, so I ended up having to do a bond so that we could keep fixing roads. I'm still working on getting my legislature to help me get a real long term plane over the finish line. The thing about roads is that you have billboards everywhere because they're called orange barrels, and so when you're fixing roads, people see the orange barrels and they know that the work is being done, and that helps kind of advertise itself. But to your point about Democrats failing on the messaging front, I think that that's one of the big takeaways from this last cycle, and I think that that's getting away from taking ownership of the things that we did get done. I think it was a real you know, we did allows your job of that in this last cycle.

Yeah, I'm going to give that.

Yeah, I'm going to give that.

At I think that's a great one.

At I think that's a great one.

How do you think, how do you think it could have been done differently?

How do you think, how do you think it could have been done differently?

You can't tell people how to feel, you know, and so I think around the economy, we can't tell people Okay, look at what's going on, and you know, in the market, look at the how much better our inflation is than European countries. You know, that doesn't fix the problem that people are having when they see their prices up and guess what prices are still up? Everybody right. I know we're talking about Greenland, but we should still be talking about groceries because that's that's where the rubber hits the road. And so it's peers that there's a disconnect between what people are really feeling and need and how we're talking about it. It's not that we have to change our values. It's not that we have to change you know, what we have been able to do, but how we've talked about it has been completely missing the mark. And I think it's being disconnected from people and spending time with real people and asking them what's going on in your life? What can I do that'll make your life better, and then doing it.

You can't tell people how to feel, you know, and so I think around the economy, we can't tell people Okay, look at what's going on, and you know, in the market, look at the how much better our inflation is than European countries. You know, that doesn't fix the problem that people are having when they see their prices up and guess what prices are still up? Everybody right. I know we're talking about Greenland, but we should still be talking about groceries because that's that's where the rubber hits the road. And so it's peers that there's a disconnect between what people are really feeling and need and how we're talking about it. It's not that we have to change our values. It's not that we have to change you know, what we have been able to do, but how we've talked about it has been completely missing the mark. And I think it's being disconnected from people and spending time with real people and asking them what's going on in your life? What can I do that'll make your life better, and then doing it.

After the break, we dive into what pivoting on the spot is all about. As Governor Whitmer recounts one of the most difficult and formative years twenty twenty. She dealt with a global pandemic, catastrophic flooding, a racial reckoning, and a plot to kidnap and kill her more after the break. So the show's all about pivoting, meeting the moment where you are, how you change, what changes in yourself to rise to that occasion and adapt in that moment. Twenty twenty was a real year for you, So can you tell us about your mindset, like how you worked through it, how your work shifted through the ups and quite frankly mostly downs of twenty twenty.

After the break, we dive into what pivoting on the spot is all about. As Governor Whitmer recounts one of the most difficult and formative years twenty twenty. She dealt with a global pandemic, catastrophic flooding, a racial reckoning, and a plot to kidnap and kill her more after the break. So the show's all about pivoting, meeting the moment where you are, how you change, what changes in yourself to rise to that occasion and adapt in that moment. Twenty twenty was a real year for you, So can you tell us about your mindset, like how you worked through it, how your work shifted through the ups and quite frankly mostly downs of twenty twenty.

Remind me what happened in twenty twenty. You know, when I had my kids, they're like eighteen months apart, and when I realized, oh my gosh, one's going to graduate in twenty twenty and the other's going to be the class of twenty twenty one. What great classes to graduate literally the worst two classes to graduate from high school for their whole generation. You know. As the pandemic hit Michigan, we were one of the earlier places. Detroit, New York, Chicago and New Orleans were kind of the hot spots for a long time. Had just an incredible amount of loss of life, overwhelmed hospitals. It was really, really hard, and I know none of us wants to relive it, but just to kind of remember what was happening. We had refrigerated trucks outside of our hospitals because there were so many corpses, you know, people that lost the battle to COVID that couldn't be buried or cremated right away, but it had to be you know, refrigerating. It was awful, and it was really challenging because we did not have help at the federal level, and navigating that was I think one of the trying to do the right thing for people. That's why I do this work. I love people. My instinct always is to run to where the problem is and to see how can I help. And that's the worst thing you could do in a pandemic, because you just add to the problem. Have to let the you know, experts do the work, but give them the supplies that they need. And we were really struggling to do that. And I remember we were on a call with the White House and we were told to go find all the supplies ourselves. And I went on television and I said, I'm not getting the supplies I need from the federal government. There's no federal strategy here, and I need masks for my doctors and gloves and etc. Nurses, respiratory therapists, and you know, I got I've made someone really unhappy with my observations. But we started getting help. People were reaching in and starting to help, and so it was worth it. But I think it was just one of those moments where every time I saw a tweet or me getting singled out, my heart sank. Not because it hurt my feelings, but because I was worried that it would impede my ability to get assistance for the people of Michigan. And that was all I cared about.

Remind me what happened in twenty twenty. You know, when I had my kids, they're like eighteen months apart, and when I realized, oh my gosh, one's going to graduate in twenty twenty and the other's going to be the class of twenty twenty one. What great classes to graduate literally the worst two classes to graduate from high school for their whole generation. You know. As the pandemic hit Michigan, we were one of the earlier places. Detroit, New York, Chicago and New Orleans were kind of the hot spots for a long time. Had just an incredible amount of loss of life, overwhelmed hospitals. It was really, really hard, and I know none of us wants to relive it, but just to kind of remember what was happening. We had refrigerated trucks outside of our hospitals because there were so many corpses, you know, people that lost the battle to COVID that couldn't be buried or cremated right away, but it had to be you know, refrigerating. It was awful, and it was really challenging because we did not have help at the federal level, and navigating that was I think one of the trying to do the right thing for people. That's why I do this work. I love people. My instinct always is to run to where the problem is and to see how can I help. And that's the worst thing you could do in a pandemic, because you just add to the problem. Have to let the you know, experts do the work, but give them the supplies that they need. And we were really struggling to do that. And I remember we were on a call with the White House and we were told to go find all the supplies ourselves. And I went on television and I said, I'm not getting the supplies I need from the federal government. There's no federal strategy here, and I need masks for my doctors and gloves and etc. Nurses, respiratory therapists, and you know, I got I've made someone really unhappy with my observations. But we started getting help. People were reaching in and starting to help, and so it was worth it. But I think it was just one of those moments where every time I saw a tweet or me getting singled out, my heart sank. Not because it hurt my feelings, but because I was worried that it would impede my ability to get assistance for the people of Michigan. And that was all I cared about.

Will you now that again we are we are right back here, Will you approach the relationship with the federal government differently? Now?

Will you now that again we are we are right back here, Will you approach the relationship with the federal government differently? Now?

I stand by what I did. I don't regret what I did. If I could go back in time with the knowledge I have now, would I and any governor have done something different? Of course. But I was fighting for the people in Michigan and I'm never going to apologize for that. That's my job when it comes to the moment that we're in. Now, you know I am. I'm going to be the governor of Michigan for the next two years. The State of Michigan elected the president again. They elected me again, and if I can find common ground on things, I'm going to try to do that. But I'm also not going to shy away from fights that matter when when I need to. That's my job as Michigan governor.

I stand by what I did. I don't regret what I did. If I could go back in time with the knowledge I have now, would I and any governor have done something different? Of course. But I was fighting for the people in Michigan and I'm never going to apologize for that. That's my job when it comes to the moment that we're in. Now, you know I am. I'm going to be the governor of Michigan for the next two years. The State of Michigan elected the president again. They elected me again, and if I can find common ground on things, I'm going to try to do that. But I'm also not going to shy away from fights that matter when when I need to. That's my job as Michigan governor.

You did elicit quite a response in that moment, not just on the federal side, but within Michigan. Do you remember, I imagine you do remember, you know what was going through your head at that moment as you looked outside your office in the capitol, you saw they were protesters and they began to storm into the Michigan State Capitol.

You did elicit quite a response in that moment, not just on the federal side, but within Michigan. Do you remember, I imagine you do remember, you know what was going through your head at that moment as you looked outside your office in the capitol, you saw they were protesters and they began to storm into the Michigan State Capitol.

Yeah. So there was this group that came together during the pandemic who were mad that, you know, I had told them to wear masks and that we were trying to keep people safe, and they created this group called Project Gridlock, bankrolled by the DeVos family in Michigan, by the way. And I was down at my office in the Romney Building and sitting there. The State Capitol was across the street, and I was giving my press conference, which we did multiple, you know, two or three times a week, depending on what was happening, and they didn't the protesters didn't know that I was in the building. So my office is not actually.

Yeah. So there was this group that came together during the pandemic who were mad that, you know, I had told them to wear masks and that we were trying to keep people safe, and they created this group called Project Gridlock, bankrolled by the DeVos family in Michigan, by the way. And I was down at my office in the Romney Building and sitting there. The State Capitol was across the street, and I was giving my press conference, which we did multiple, you know, two or three times a week, depending on what was happening, and they didn't the protesters didn't know that I was in the building. So my office is not actually.

In the Capitol. It's across the street.

In the Capitol. It's across the street.

I think most people think that the that the office is in the Capitol. And so I could stand in the window one floor away from people, and what I saw was really shocking. I knew that there was going to be a protest. We weren't trying to stop the protest. We said, just wear a mask day six feet apart, you know, you could, you have the right to protest. But when I looked out the window, people had showed up with Confederate flags and Nazi symbols. There were signs that said Hyle Whitmer, and there was a dark haired barbie hanging from a noose, and it was really stunning. It took my breath away. There was there's a picture in the book I took with my phone from the window that said it said something like, Gretchen Whitmer is the reason we need the Second Amendment, you know. And this was the stuff that I saw from my office window. And I remember taking the picture and looking and seeing this so clearly, and then realizing, oh my god, I better get out of this window, you know, like hello, you know, they were had their guns and so it was one of those moments I'd taken all these pictures. I was looking and then I thought, what am I doing, you know, and then went down and gave my press conference. But it's you know, we saw the capital of Michigan get overtaken by protesters with guns before January sixth. Happened here, and I remember watching January sixth, and everyone said, how could this happen? We're so surprised, and I'm like, well, this happened here about nine months beforehand. So I think the rhetoric and the the willingness of leaders to encourage people to take up arms and threaten their fellow Americans is so dangerous. And that's why when when Donald Trump was shot in Pennsylvania, I put a statement out right away because it's not okay, you know, no matter who the victim is. I think there's a.

I think most people think that the that the office is in the Capitol. And so I could stand in the window one floor away from people, and what I saw was really shocking. I knew that there was going to be a protest. We weren't trying to stop the protest. We said, just wear a mask day six feet apart, you know, you could, you have the right to protest. But when I looked out the window, people had showed up with Confederate flags and Nazi symbols. There were signs that said Hyle Whitmer, and there was a dark haired barbie hanging from a noose, and it was really stunning. It took my breath away. There was there's a picture in the book I took with my phone from the window that said it said something like, Gretchen Whitmer is the reason we need the Second Amendment, you know. And this was the stuff that I saw from my office window. And I remember taking the picture and looking and seeing this so clearly, and then realizing, oh my god, I better get out of this window, you know, like hello, you know, they were had their guns and so it was one of those moments I'd taken all these pictures. I was looking and then I thought, what am I doing, you know, and then went down and gave my press conference. But it's you know, we saw the capital of Michigan get overtaken by protesters with guns before January sixth. Happened here, and I remember watching January sixth, and everyone said, how could this happen? We're so surprised, and I'm like, well, this happened here about nine months beforehand. So I think the rhetoric and the the willingness of leaders to encourage people to take up arms and threaten their fellow Americans is so dangerous. And that's why when when Donald Trump was shot in Pennsylvania, I put a statement out right away because it's not okay, you know, no matter who the victim is. I think there's a.

Lot to be learned from in this moment when you came into the governor's office, Republicans held both houses, and yet you still pushed through and forged on. How do your objectives change if you're in that moment? How does your strategy change if you're in that moment? What is potentially applicable to us. Now, that's a good question.

Lot to be learned from in this moment when you came into the governor's office, Republicans held both houses, and yet you still pushed through and forged on. How do your objectives change if you're in that moment? How does your strategy change if you're in that moment? What is potentially applicable to us. Now, that's a good question.

So you know, my first term it was completely Republican controlled House and Senate. In my second term, I won by almost eleven points and we flipped both the House and Senate for the first time in forty years, which was amazing. So while I was in the legislature it was all Republican controlled. Then as governor it was Republican legislature, democratic governor. Then it was all Democratic controlled. Now we're back to fifty to fifty that the House is Republican controlled, the Senators a credit controlled. And I think part of being of that woman from Michigan is Michigan is a state that is always in the national eye during our presidentials because we are the most diverse swing state in the country. We go back and forth. We have this tendency to do that, and I think that's not a bad thing because it forces you to make a seat at the table and to try to hammer things out. But now that we've got fairly drawn districts, it will continue to go back and forth instead of being one party controlled at the state level for so long. My strategy in this situation, similar to how it was with Democrats, in All Control and Republicans in All Control is to continue to host the quadrant leaders coming together, try to find common ground, pull people in and build bridges. You know, I've love to the Mackanaw Bridge is the symbol of my campaign. It stretches between the two peninsulas. Right. Five mile long suspension bridge was the longest built at the time. And you know, I'm proud that my focus is building bridges, not walls. We want to create opportunity to connect people and I'm always going to come at any problem with that mindset.

So you know, my first term it was completely Republican controlled House and Senate. In my second term, I won by almost eleven points and we flipped both the House and Senate for the first time in forty years, which was amazing. So while I was in the legislature it was all Republican controlled. Then as governor it was Republican legislature, democratic governor. Then it was all Democratic controlled. Now we're back to fifty to fifty that the House is Republican controlled, the Senators a credit controlled. And I think part of being of that woman from Michigan is Michigan is a state that is always in the national eye during our presidentials because we are the most diverse swing state in the country. We go back and forth. We have this tendency to do that, and I think that's not a bad thing because it forces you to make a seat at the table and to try to hammer things out. But now that we've got fairly drawn districts, it will continue to go back and forth instead of being one party controlled at the state level for so long. My strategy in this situation, similar to how it was with Democrats, in All Control and Republicans in All Control is to continue to host the quadrant leaders coming together, try to find common ground, pull people in and build bridges. You know, I've love to the Mackanaw Bridge is the symbol of my campaign. It stretches between the two peninsulas. Right. Five mile long suspension bridge was the longest built at the time. And you know, I'm proud that my focus is building bridges, not walls. We want to create opportunity to connect people and I'm always going to come at any problem with that mindset.

You've said that to be a successful politician you need to have a thick skin and a short memory, and you tell a great anecdote about sending cake with a bat to someone who had given you made some disparaging comments. I really prefer a long grudge hold myself. How can I overcome that? Like you know, it's a blessing to have a short memory.

You've said that to be a successful politician you need to have a thick skin and a short memory, and you tell a great anecdote about sending cake with a bat to someone who had given you made some disparaging comments. I really prefer a long grudge hold myself. How can I overcome that? Like you know, it's a blessing to have a short memory.

And in this business, everyone in my family seems to you know, we do our thing and then we move on, and that's been helpful. The worst thing is a politician with a long memory and thin skin, because they're always out for retribution or looking for a battle. So I'm not sure how to help you cultivate thicker skin, but I'll think on that. Oh no, no, I have thick skin, but a long.

And in this business, everyone in my family seems to you know, we do our thing and then we move on, and that's been helpful. The worst thing is a politician with a long memory and thin skin, because they're always out for retribution or looking for a battle. So I'm not sure how to help you cultivate thicker skin, but I'll think on that. Oh no, no, I have thick skin, but a long.

Memory a bad thing, though. I'll come back when you're least expecting it.

Memory a bad thing, though. I'll come back when you're least expecting it.

Well, they say, bury the hashet, but keep the handle sticking up right that.

Well, they say, bury the hashet, but keep the handle sticking up right that.

We were just talking about this backstage. You know, people keep coming up and saying what do we do? Like, how do we stay optimistic? What should we be doing? How are you staying optimistic in this moment?

We were just talking about this backstage. You know, people keep coming up and saying what do we do? Like, how do we stay optimistic? What should we be doing? How are you staying optimistic in this moment?

Well, you know, and I confessed in the back it's hard, you know. After the election, I like, I think a lot of people wanted to turn the TV off for a while and escape it. I hunkered down in December and Lancing. We had a lot of snow and my family was all around, and I might have watched a few seasons of Dexter. It got to a point where my kids are like, are you okay? Are you onto this season's Traders yet? No?

Well, you know, and I confessed in the back it's hard, you know. After the election, I like, I think a lot of people wanted to turn the TV off for a while and escape it. I hunkered down in December and Lancing. We had a lot of snow and my family was all around, and I might have watched a few seasons of Dexter. It got to a point where my kids are like, are you okay? Are you onto this season's Traders yet? No?

But I've heard it's great.

But I've heard it's great.

But you know, one of the things I know about myself is if I isolate, I get more anxious. I need to be doing something. I need to feel like I'm doing something that matters. And I was on a flight the other day and the flight attendant came up and she said, I'm so worried and I'm I'm talking to my therapist. What can I do? You know? And I said, well, you know, my my advice is to find something.

But you know, one of the things I know about myself is if I isolate, I get more anxious. I need to be doing something. I need to feel like I'm doing something that matters. And I was on a flight the other day and the flight attendant came up and she said, I'm so worried and I'm I'm talking to my therapist. What can I do? You know? And I said, well, you know, my my advice is to find something.

That you can do in your community.

That you can do in your community.

We can make a difference. Whether it's a small thing. I'm watching some of these town halls in Georgia, people are speaking out. It's making a difference. And if it's volunteering at your you know, at a women's health clinic, or it is simply helping, you know, people who need, you know, some help, reading to you kids, are visiting with you know, people who don't get visitors. I mean, I think that's there's ways that each of us can do something right now that will help us feel like we're making a little bit of a difference, will keep us activated and wear us outsort we go to bed tired.

We can make a difference. Whether it's a small thing. I'm watching some of these town halls in Georgia, people are speaking out. It's making a difference. And if it's volunteering at your you know, at a women's health clinic, or it is simply helping, you know, people who need, you know, some help, reading to you kids, are visiting with you know, people who don't get visitors. I mean, I think that's there's ways that each of us can do something right now that will help us feel like we're making a little bit of a difference, will keep us activated and wear us outsort we go to bed tired.

I was sharing with you that I live in a Republican district and my member of Congress isn't holding town halls, so we have to get a little more creative that way.

I was sharing with you that I live in a Republican district and my member of Congress isn't holding town halls, so we have to get a little more creative that way.

Yep, but I believe you can.

Yep, but I believe you can.

I appreciate that he'll come back eventually, and I won't forget she.

I appreciate that he'll come back eventually, and I won't forget she.

Has a long memory. You know.

Has a long memory. You know.

The chasm feels so large between the parties right now, and I actually feel in some ways it's less about political affiliation and more about information versus non information. As someone who won in double jeds in twenty twenty two, how did you break through to those people?

The chasm feels so large between the parties right now, and I actually feel in some ways it's less about political affiliation and more about information versus non information. As someone who won in double jeds in twenty twenty two, how did you break through to those people?

Like?

Like?

How do you you obviously want over people who are more than just democratically affiliated. How do you break through when there's not there's not a clear information path.

How do you you obviously want over people who are more than just democratically affiliated. How do you break through when there's not there's not a clear information path.

Right now, we've been really analyzing how people get their information, and we've kind of reconfigured our all of our efforts toward toward information dissemination. One of the things that we do is, you know, someone asked me, do you visit? Do you think of yourself as an influencer because we've got like a great social media game. I think it's not me bragging because it is not me. I don't even know.

Right now, we've been really analyzing how people get their information, and we've kind of reconfigured our all of our efforts toward toward information dissemination. One of the things that we do is, you know, someone asked me, do you visit? Do you think of yourself as an influencer because we've got like a great social media game. I think it's not me bragging because it is not me. I don't even know.

The passwords, trust me.

The passwords, trust me.

I just do what the young people on the staff suggest, and most times it hits. Sometimes it's a miss. But you know, I think that it's important to meet people where they are, and that's I think podcasts are really important. I think that non traditional ways to reach people is the way that we can cut through a lot of the noise. But it's very challenging. There's so much misinformation out there. There's so many I think companies and interests that are keen on redirecting people into places where they don't intend to be or aren't really looking for. And so we've gotten really creative. We've been I think, relentless about getting our message out and creative. You know, Big Gretch was a nickname that I got during the pandemic. It's I'm named after both my grandmothers, Gretchen and Esther grandma Gretchen always said, never let anyone call you gretch. Gretch rhymes with wretch and that ain't pretty, and so I always had this aversion. If you called me gretch, was I just oough? And I don't know many women who like the big on the front of their nickname, right, so I was. I was in the office, we were getting ready to do one of my press conferences during the pandemic, and someone said, you, you know this big Gretch thing that everyone's calling you in Detroit And I'm like, huh, And they said, I said, what does this mean. And so this woman on my staff is Shaquila Myers, who I've worked most of the last twenty five years with her. She's like, oh, no, Governor, you don't understand Big Gretch. It's trending in Detroit. It's your new nickname that detroiters have given you. And it's like they've given you the key to the city. You've got the nickname. And then this rap came out. But so Big Grutch became this thing and it's hilarious, and now it's my favorite nickname, which most of my family members are like, I cannot believe that this is your favorite nickname now, Big Grutch. But before the movie, the Barbie movie came out, this woman on my team, who's young and creative and brilliant, said, let's grab a Barbie. We'll grab the America Ferrera Barbie and give her a haircut like yours, and we'll call.

I just do what the young people on the staff suggest, and most times it hits. Sometimes it's a miss. But you know, I think that it's important to meet people where they are, and that's I think podcasts are really important. I think that non traditional ways to reach people is the way that we can cut through a lot of the noise. But it's very challenging. There's so much misinformation out there. There's so many I think companies and interests that are keen on redirecting people into places where they don't intend to be or aren't really looking for. And so we've gotten really creative. We've been I think, relentless about getting our message out and creative. You know, Big Gretch was a nickname that I got during the pandemic. It's I'm named after both my grandmothers, Gretchen and Esther grandma Gretchen always said, never let anyone call you gretch. Gretch rhymes with wretch and that ain't pretty, and so I always had this aversion. If you called me gretch, was I just oough? And I don't know many women who like the big on the front of their nickname, right, so I was. I was in the office, we were getting ready to do one of my press conferences during the pandemic, and someone said, you, you know this big Gretch thing that everyone's calling you in Detroit And I'm like, huh, And they said, I said, what does this mean. And so this woman on my staff is Shaquila Myers, who I've worked most of the last twenty five years with her. She's like, oh, no, Governor, you don't understand Big Gretch. It's trending in Detroit. It's your new nickname that detroiters have given you. And it's like they've given you the key to the city. You've got the nickname. And then this rap came out. But so Big Grutch became this thing and it's hilarious, and now it's my favorite nickname, which most of my family members are like, I cannot believe that this is your favorite nickname now, Big Grutch. But before the movie, the Barbie movie came out, this woman on my team, who's young and creative and brilliant, said, let's grab a Barbie. We'll grab the America Ferrera Barbie and give her a haircut like yours, and we'll call.

Her a little Gretch.

Her a little Gretch.

And I mean, we got awards for this campaign. It's a wildless thing, a little Gretch in her pink GM corvettes made in Detroit with little pink traffic cones, fixing the damn roads, giving a speech at a little podium that Julia whittled. She whittled a little podium for little gretch to give a speech at. But we call it like giving people their vegetables with the little fun social media. So we talked about the budget with a barbie and like people saw it and they understood they learned something at the same time. So you know, I'm not cool, Like I said, I don't know the passwords, but I got a phenomenal team and I trust them and ninety nine out of one hundred times that's great. And every once in a while I get totally roasted because I did something. Cringe right, honey, we.

And I mean, we got awards for this campaign. It's a wildless thing, a little Gretch in her pink GM corvettes made in Detroit with little pink traffic cones, fixing the damn roads, giving a speech at a little podium that Julia whittled. She whittled a little podium for little gretch to give a speech at. But we call it like giving people their vegetables with the little fun social media. So we talked about the budget with a barbie and like people saw it and they understood they learned something at the same time. So you know, I'm not cool, Like I said, I don't know the passwords, but I got a phenomenal team and I trust them and ninety nine out of one hundred times that's great. And every once in a while I get totally roasted because I did something. Cringe right, honey, we.

Got a big nood on that one. Thank you the way. I love the fact that someone asked if you're an influencer, and you're like, I'm the govenor this new form of media of meeting people where there are, where they are, people are choosing what they consume. That's what I think the hardest part of it is that you have to actually get in front of them when they're choosing similar forms of media. That's what I think the hardest part is. So I feel like most of the conversations of I guess what we'll call like the persuadables or uninformed or differently informed. I guess because of term we can use now. But you know, it's happening with people that are close to us. Yeah, Like it's a face to face conversation, it's family, it's in our table, Like we really got to get in there. How do we give us advice? Like how do we have those conversations right now without just a massive eye roll and say, I don't know where you're getting your information from.

Got a big nood on that one. Thank you the way. I love the fact that someone asked if you're an influencer, and you're like, I'm the govenor this new form of media of meeting people where there are, where they are, people are choosing what they consume. That's what I think the hardest part of it is that you have to actually get in front of them when they're choosing similar forms of media. That's what I think the hardest part is. So I feel like most of the conversations of I guess what we'll call like the persuadables or uninformed or differently informed. I guess because of term we can use now. But you know, it's happening with people that are close to us. Yeah, Like it's a face to face conversation, it's family, it's in our table, Like we really got to get in there. How do we give us advice? Like how do we have those conversations right now without just a massive eye roll and say, I don't know where you're getting your information from.

I think it's it starts with asking the question. You know, I really do think that listening is a superpower and it's really important no matter what walk of life, but especially important if you're going to be a public servant. Your job is to represent the people. How can you do that if you don't know what the what they're thinking, what's on their minds, what's what's standing between them and whatever goal they have or need that isn't yet met. And so I you know, even with with people who are on the other side of the aisle, if you can connect on something by showing some genuine interest in them, it opens up a possibility for common ground that you can build off of. And I really it sounds maybe sophomoric to be that simple. But I think that's a that's a good start. You know, My goal, of course, is to find common ground on my side of the fence, Right, come on over. But you can't you can't be persuasive if you don't have and you can't have credibility if you don't have something to start from.

I think it's it starts with asking the question. You know, I really do think that listening is a superpower and it's really important no matter what walk of life, but especially important if you're going to be a public servant. Your job is to represent the people. How can you do that if you don't know what the what they're thinking, what's on their minds, what's what's standing between them and whatever goal they have or need that isn't yet met. And so I you know, even with with people who are on the other side of the aisle, if you can connect on something by showing some genuine interest in them, it opens up a possibility for common ground that you can build off of. And I really it sounds maybe sophomoric to be that simple. But I think that's a that's a good start. You know, My goal, of course, is to find common ground on my side of the fence, Right, come on over. But you can't you can't be persuasive if you don't have and you can't have credibility if you don't have something to start from.

Yeah. Well, I think this question of what is authentic for women in power, and it's not just in politics, it's across the board that what is authentic is really challenging, and I think we're still unpacking it. I'm actually so glad that I saw Jennifer Palmery here because what she said to me after twenty sixteen. We were in the office one day, and she said that it was too hard for voters to find Hillary what they considered authentic because she had spent her entire life being qualified to be at that table and proving that she was qualified to be at the table. So I think that she in many ways broke that glass ceiling for many of us of the generation of women who had to come up in a different kind of environment. And I think it gave Vice President Harris an opportunity to be a different kind of world's leader. But I think it's still a I think we still don't know what it means. So you know, you're this this version of this book is specifically for young women, for young men, for young adults. And you talk about being authentic, and you are very authentic in this book, and really you really give us some great stuff out there. But how do you think that we can both honor that part of ourselves it feels authentic, but lead and be chosen to lead in this moment where we're still not one hundred percent there.

Yeah. Well, I think this question of what is authentic for women in power, and it's not just in politics, it's across the board that what is authentic is really challenging, and I think we're still unpacking it. I'm actually so glad that I saw Jennifer Palmery here because what she said to me after twenty sixteen. We were in the office one day, and she said that it was too hard for voters to find Hillary what they considered authentic because she had spent her entire life being qualified to be at that table and proving that she was qualified to be at the table. So I think that she in many ways broke that glass ceiling for many of us of the generation of women who had to come up in a different kind of environment. And I think it gave Vice President Harris an opportunity to be a different kind of world's leader. But I think it's still a I think we still don't know what it means. So you know, you're this this version of this book is specifically for young women, for young men, for young adults. And you talk about being authentic, and you are very authentic in this book, and really you really give us some great stuff out there. But how do you think that we can both honor that part of ourselves it feels authentic, but lead and be chosen to lead in this moment where we're still not one hundred percent there.

We're not. We've made We've come a long way, though, And you know, I'm always very mindful that the only reason I can show up as I am is because there are so many women who walk through this fire before me and made it easier for me. I think about Hillary Clinton. I think about you know, Jennifer Granholm was our first female governor in the state of Michigan, and she wrote I think in one of her books, or maybe it was just an interview that I read, but about how you know she didn't say this, but I'll say he's a very attractive woman and she always felt like she needed to wear her hair very short and wear pants suits you know, to be taken seriously. And you know what, I show up in a leather jacket now, and I can show up and talk like a normal person, not have to be have everything feel like it's absolutely perfect and sanitized the way that Hillary Clinton had to just just to have some credibility in a room. So I feel really lucky that I can show.

We're not. We've made We've come a long way, though, And you know, I'm always very mindful that the only reason I can show up as I am is because there are so many women who walk through this fire before me and made it easier for me. I think about Hillary Clinton. I think about you know, Jennifer Granholm was our first female governor in the state of Michigan, and she wrote I think in one of her books, or maybe it was just an interview that I read, but about how you know she didn't say this, but I'll say he's a very attractive woman and she always felt like she needed to wear her hair very short and wear pants suits you know, to be taken seriously. And you know what, I show up in a leather jacket now, and I can show up and talk like a normal person, not have to be have everything feel like it's absolutely perfect and sanitized the way that Hillary Clinton had to just just to have some credibility in a room. So I feel really lucky that I can show.

Up that way.

Up that way.

I still have to worry about things that my male counterparts don't. I still give a State of the States speech and people talk more about the dress that I wore than the words that I uttered, and that's maddening. But I'm mindful that when I own my space, it makes it easier for other women to do that too. We saw that in the pandemic with my Secretary of State, who was under the gun with all of the pressures around the election. My Attorney General who was in court battling on all of our behalfs every day. We're all women, and when each of us took heat, it made it easier for the other to stand in the breach. And I think that that's something that as I think about how I show up and the women who are coming in or might think about going into this work. I hope that I'm making it easier for them to show up as they are and to be their authentic selves, because, gosh, if we've not learned anything over the last ten years, it's that people, for whatever reason, need to see something real that they feel like lots of politicians don't give them. And showing up as you are is the most powerful thing. I think, Anne Frankly, who's got energy to be something you're not anymore? It sounds exhausting, it is.