John Harlan Kim // From home to Hollywood and back again...

Published Dec 4, 2024, 6:30 PM

You all know I find every single guest amazing in their own way and use a lot of superlatives to convey that, but every now and then a conversation leaves me almost speechless (which is very rare) and this was one of them. I recorded this one at Producey Studios who - shout out to the team - have been incredible for our return to in-person interviews since maternity leave, but it also meant we had a producer in the room who could validate my reaction so I knew I wasn't imagining how special this was - the minute John Kim left the room, both of us just stared at each other open-mouthed and in awe! And this chat isn’t just special because of its timing with the new Cruel Intentions series premiering which stars John in one of the lead roles OR because he was also just announced as part of the cast of the live-action feature Voltron along the likes of Rita Ora... I mean, he's absolutely SMASHING it over in Hollywood... It’s also special because - as you’ll hear - it came at a pivotal time in his life with a lot of reflection and change AND happens to be the first podcast he’s ever done. What. An. Honour. John's been friends with Nic through our dear mutual friend, Dave Higgs, for years and I’ve wanted to share his story for a long time covering his incredible rise from the Eastern suburbs of Melbourne to Hollywood. But I didn’t expect the privilege of catching him at this particularly pivotal moment in time and to be able to share his vulnerability, humility and eloquence to a podcast audience for the first time. I hope you are as awe struck and enjoy this as much as I did!

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The version of John that's getting makeup and getting flowing to Atlanta tomorrow for press and then I'm gonna be a red couver room and then gone gold coastal on a moving in. He's fine, Like the hurt kid is the one that needs attention now. Achieving your dreams won't give you everything you need. The pot of gold is at the end of the rainbow. It won't be everything. But still now, I think there's a lot of people that are coming up and they're like, I know that I just need to burn my hand on that stove.

Welcome to the Seas the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than one way. So this is the platform to hear and explore the stories of those who found lives. They adore the good, bad and ugly. The best and worst day will bear all the facets of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful of Sarah. A lawyer turned funentrepreneurs wapped the suits and heels to co found matcha maiden and matcha milk bar. CCA is a series of conversations on finding a life you love and exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy and fulfillment along the way. So you all already know that I find every single one of our guests amazing, and I use a lot of superlatives in the intros, in the captions to try and convey to you just how wonderful I think they are and why. But every now and then a particularly special conversation or leave me almost speechless. It doesn't happen very often. It's pretty hard to do. You guys know I don't love a short story, but this one really bowled me over. I recorded this chat at producing studios in Melbourne, who shout out to the team have been incredible for our return to in person interviews since Matt Leef. But that meant we had a producer in the room for the whole episode who could validate my reaction afterwards, So I knew I wasn't imagining that this one was special. The minute John Kim left the room after our conversation, both of us just stared at each other, open mouthed and in alle at what he had said. It's not that I expected him not to be amazing. I knew he would be.

It's just the way that he was amazing kind of surprised me, which you'll understand more as you listen. And this chat isn't just special because if its timing with the brand new Cruel Intention series premiering this week, which stars John in one of its lead roles, or because he was also just announced last week as part of the all star cast of the live action feature Voltron, alongside the likes of Rita Aura. I mean, he is literally smashing life goals. It's also special because, as you'll hear, it came at a pivotal time in his life, with a lot of reflection and change.

Particularly in relation to a lot of the themes that are really important on this show about success and happiness and fulfillment, all the things that really matter. But also because it happens to somehow be the very first podcast he's ever done. John has been good friends with Nick for many years through our dear mutual friend David Higgs, who moved over to la and they've become besties over there to share John's story for a very long time, covering his incredible rise from the eastern suburbs of Melbourne all the way to Hollywood. But I didn't expect the honor of catching him at this particularly pivotal moment in time, and to be able to share his vulnerability, humility, and eloquence to a podcast audience for the very first time. I hope you are all as awe struck and inspired by him and enjoy this one as much as I did. John, Welcome, Welcome to.

Yeah, it's an honor to be here. What a pleasure.

Oh my god, it's an honor for me. I'm so excited. I've already spent what like fifteen minutes asking you questions because I haven't seen him for ages, but also you've got so much going on.

Yeah, Yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot.

How are you feeling? You were in what three states yesterday and like two countries in the next time we are out.

Yeah, I'm getting used to like trying to fall asleep on airplanes, which is not comfortable, obviously, but yeah, I sort of just gone with it at this point in trying to it feels like that that level and Donkey Kong where you're on the like the cart and you're like making jumps like it's sort of I'm in the mining cart, just trying to hold on the sides and keep it together. But it's all a privilege and I'm super lucky, so not complaining.

Oh my gosh, well we are, like you have such a special place in my heart. Firstly because my husband is like obsessed with you Nick, our dear friend Higgsy mutual. Yes, dear dear friend, I.

Have to mention him. We'll get in trouble for you know, like Dave.

Big shout out, also becoming you dad. Yeah, congrats congrats to Higgsy. We should we should have patched him in here. But yeah, I met you through the boys and they just love you so much. And one of the things that was really interesting, actually I asked both of them what I should ask you, and both of them said, you cannot let him get away with the absurd level of humility that you have about your career. So I'm not going to let you get away with it. And you just mentioned you've been now an actor for seventeen years time, so either Korean skincare is doing things for you or you started really young.

Yeah I'm probably not. My raps don't want me aging, but I think I'm just staying out of the sun enough. I don't know what the Sun's great secret, like skincads. No, And then I'm always like people are always like getting mad and they're like, what do you do? And I was like, ah, Korean, Yeah, like I eat cereal, Like yeah, that wouldn't work for me, and I'm like it works for me. So I don't know what you want from you. This is the research that I've accrued over the last couple of years.

Well, another thing that's been lovely is not just sort of being like I think we've only we haven't spent that much time together in person, but I hear so much about you through the boys because yeah, our beautiful little friendship group, but also because you're like my Korean culture correspondent, and so is your mom. Because I'm literally like, as you all know, I'm adopted. I was born in South Korea but was adopted into a very Caucasian family. So John and his mom somehow has become our ring in for Teddy's one hundred days. I was sort of like, does that mean, like tell us what we have to do? Yeah, his first birthday's coming up.

Yeah. No, he looked incredible. No, I he looked like a little rock star. But I know that for mum. Whenever one hundred days comes in Korean culture, I could be completely misinforming the audience here, but as I understand it, once you hit a hundred days, it's sort of the good omen and it's like, okay, they're they're healthy, they're kicking on and and so yeah, they celebrate that and they make U swear the humbuk and they're they're like it's so it's like ridiculously like there's too much going on, but they're all the snacks around them, like all they cut up apples and like.

Did you know that the little rice cakes I had I didn't like because I'm such a fake Korean, I didn't actually have rice cakes on hand, so I used I went to coals and got like coconut biscuits and they kind of looked like and I just wrote on them with a sharpie. Yeah yeah, it's like a resourceful rice cakes. They're like yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I'm used to prop foods.

That's great.

Okay, Well, speaking of props, so an active for seventeen years, extremely accomplished. I was looking at your IMDb and and I'm like, oh my god, this guy has an AMDB that in itself is amazing. But you've had some amazing announcements recently, which we'll get to. But one of the things that I think happens is people walk into your life at this chapter and kind of assume it's so easy to assume that it was an overnight success or that it was easy to get there, and they forget that everyone started somewhere. Everyone's had moments where they were like they didn't know who they wanted to be, or they did know, but it felt impossible to get there. So I like to go back to the very very beginning and trace back who you were as a kid, what your first dreams were, and then all the like diversions and setbacks and dots that have to connect along the way to get a Melbourne boy who grew up in the verbs, you know, all the way to like yeah, to like this huge career in Hollywood. Like that seems implausible, but obviously someone has to do it. So take us back to childhood. John, Yeah, I had.

A really unique upbringing in some prospects. Mum raised me on her own and she she did a phenomenal job of doing so, and it didn't even occur to me that I was either going without something or that things were a little different for our family. And I think at the time it's sort of it didn't really hit me until I just I just actually told this story for the first time a long time. But I remember this like very clear memory in prep where you do like the cutouts of the people they're holding hands, you know, when you fold them and then you pull them up and you unfill them and it's like five six people or whatever, and you had to do that for your family, and that was like the task before we finished work for the day, and so we were doing our family and it was just like mine was two, because it was a single mum, single child, and so you know, I'm like I'm not even thinking, and I'm like color color mean I color mum in I'm like all right, cool, And I remember just like sticking my head up and looking around and I was like, oh, everyone else is still working. And then it like it was like this very sobering moment for a five year old to be like, oh, we're kind of we're different. I mean now I think it's much more normalized, but at the time.

It was a nuclear family.

Yeah, and it was a really good primary school, so all the families were really well put together and you know, well off and well adjusted. And so I remember going home that night and being like, Mum, we're missing some team members. We don't have a very small gag. Yeah, yeah, yeah, where's we need this guy and this guy. So let's get looking. But no, I remember because of the fact that she had worked so relentlessly hard for me. I never felt like I went without every time someone got whatever the latest jacket that was cool to buy was, or the latest video game or whatever, like, she always made sure that I was within trending touch of the rest of the kids of like whatever the latest gadgets or to always were. So she was phenomenal and she is my absolute hero and none of this Hollywood stuff happens without her. So yeah, I'm really lucky to have her. And yeah, it's kind of nice to have hit a point in my career now where you know, I can look after her and repay her for everything that she did for me.

Oh, John, that's beautiful. Yea. I thought I loved her before, but now I'm like even more obsessed with her.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. She's said no, no, no, that she's a great kaream correspondent to have.

She's like, she's my favorite career and corresponding you're obviously my second favorite.

Appreciate that. Did you hear what she did with the Nick loves the story about like when you started working? Did you what was it? Like one of the goals of acting essentially, and I was like, I want to like look after mom, And Nick goes, so, what'd you do for he the first time you got paid? And I was like, oh, first time I got a US paycheck. It was a first show I did when I was like nineteen or twenty and it converted really well to Australian dollars. So I remember when mum Woa dropped me off to school. All the other mums had like really nice you know, rain drovers or Merks or Audi's or whatever, and so I was like, Mum had like a two thousand and three like sky blue gray Toyota Camri, which is like the most Asian car. It's the most like it's like the one on the manual and it was like not sported stock everything every no bells and whistles, nothing about it. The color the most like generic, like it feels like they made that color on accident, Like that's what it feels like. And so I remember thinking, like when I become a famous actor, I'm gonna I'm gonna say I'm gonna get her a new car. So I call her up and I was like, Mom, I just got paid first US job. I'm seeing you this money. Don't do the Asian thing and invest it. Don't like put it in the business.

I don't like, yeah, don't be sensible.

Get something for yourself, buy a car, like, please just do that for me. It's something I remember this story. It was like it's people like because this sums up my mom. So well, yeah, So I send the money. I'm rapped and I'm telling all the boys back on I'm like, just bought mum a new car twenty years old, like I'm killing it, and I'm thinking I thought I was a legend very much. Realized later that I'm not very special, but at the time I thought it was cool. And so I send the money and I'm like two months from coming home for Christmas. I was like, Mom, don't even tell me what car you get. I'm just gonna see it in the driveway and it'll be like a like just a moment for me, fastball two months, get home, same cars in the driveway, same cars, and I was like and I was like, I knew where she took the money she ran. She's a crook, she's a thief. I want my money back. I'm livid. I get back into the house. I've still got my bags and I'm like I'm holding suitcases. And she comes out and I'm like, mom, like, I want my money back. What savings bank accounts did you put it in? And I'm like livid. And she she comes out with her dishwashing gloves on and she's like, what's wrong. And I was like, I told you to get a new car. She goes, I did get a new cargo. No, the Toylet camera is still in the in the driveway. She's like, that's the new car. And I went she bought the twenty like fifteen Toyota camera or whatever. It was sky blewe gray, same color, not even changing the car. No, not the sport edition, not like like no bells and whistles again, kid, nothing, just fresh off the commercial, like I want that one. And so she just got an updated to it. I think the headlights were a little more rounded, okay, cute, and maybe maybe their volume was a little like higher or yeah.

Maybe it had like a six ceda instead of two.

I was just exactly yeah, yeah, yeah. It was so I couldn't even be mad because.

How wholesome is that?

Because in her mind she was balling out and I realized it was all relative. I'm coming from la where it's like the nicest cars, you know, and then it was like for her to be in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne with her current year Toyota Camry.

Was like she's killing her.

She thinks she's like she's like got the window down.

She's got fifty Yeah, she's literally like she thought she was like like she it was just it was and it's just I think it's that immigrant, blue collar mentality.

Like for her, that was enough and so that's that really hit me in the fields and the herd, and I couldn't even be mad because it was just like, for you, this is yeah.

That story alone explains so much about you and I think it's so beautiful that you can be And again, I think this is something people easily assume now seeing the roles that you're in and the life that you have in Hollywood, would forget that the beginnings were humble and that that's really stuck with you because you do have that reminder of like how amazing it is what you do every day. But like, yeah, I just love this show gives me such an opportunity to hear stories like that about your life, and I think that's just so beautiful.

It's different. Yeah, if acting has given me anything, it's a completely different camera position to a lot of other people's vantage points because I things, the schedule's different, the people are different. It's just not It's a much more colorful sort of industry, and you get I think every workplace has drama or different characters or different personalities, but like acting seems to really amplify those traits. And I've seen people at the very best, they're very worst, they're most generous, they're most selfish, and it's sort of been their lightest all their darkest stuff. It's been really cool to kind of be in the field for a while and not to have lost my sanity.

I was going to say, I know that you have stayed that person that loves that about your mum. You know, like, even though you've kind of gone to the heights of wealth and fame and success, and like, part of this show is reminding everyone that, like, those pinnacles are great and important, but not everything, and in fact, probably less generating of happiness and fulfillment maybe than like the smaller thing, the fact that your mum was just so satisfied and stoked with that. It's just so beautiful.

It's such a granding force. Yeah, and more to your points, I thought acting would solve everything. I thought all my problems, like I just wanted to be rich and famous because I thought I wanted the aspects of both. I wanted the money because I want to look after mum, and I wanted the fame because it was like maybe a substitute or replacement for the love that I felt like I didn't get when I was younger. So it's something that i'm even even now like sort of actively searching for antison. But I it was a really fascinating thing to hit this point where I was like, acting is not going to solve that for you. It won't give you the answers, it won't give you green lights down the ticket and be like Okay, cool now, you're sorted, and so not to say that I'm rich and famous or anything like that. It's more just I've found a level of success. I've sustained a Korea and even after over one hundred something episodes of US television and working across people I never thought i'd ever imagine, like I worked with two of the four Jennifers. Arguably there's five Jennifers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've got love hewittt and I've got Ghana.

But I mean, which is pretty amazing. You've got Aniston.

I'm missing Aniston. You've got Lawrence, I'm missing Lawrence. And there's one more. Who's the Lopez? Oh yeah, yeah, I think it will go Lopez next. Yeah, I'll call my team after this.

I was going to say, get your people to call. Yeah, and you tea that up.

Let's go, let's go. It's like Pokemon, We're just.

Like you've got to catch them. Jennifer's that's the.

Only reason I started acting.

Really Okay, well that's really interesting. So the reason you started acting I was reading that it actually was quite not late, but just interesting that there was such a focus for you, like such an ozsy childhood of basketball, tennis, footy, and that it was an accidental performing arts like like what was it a local action studio? There was a free performing class that someone dragged you along to. Yeah, in high school.

So it was in Mount Waverley and was like the RSL. It was like by the train station, like just like it was. I don't even know. I think it was probably an accounting office that they turned into like an acting studio. And I went up a friend of mine had gone, and then I'd sort of followed suit, thinking like, yeah, it should be fun way to kill an afternoon. They were giving like first free lesson sort of office, and so I went out and then from there it's sort of my my drama teacher at school, Miss Carter. Miss Carter was like the first person I think to see a potential I think, whether you want to call it un tapped charisma or whatever, she thought there was something there and so she was always even though she would always like yell at me in front of the other kids, there was like a like a love hate like I think she was like, yeah, which I I think I had that with a lot of my teachers in school actually, but no, they basically as soon as I got started through her or I remember something happened where there was a casting call in Melbourne for a Steven Spielberg Tom Hanks project called The Pacific, which was the band of brother spinoff right, and they were shooting in July, like in the U yangs like literally like I was like, that's like so that's like yeah, yeah, yeah, I could get there. Mom could drop me off there in her camera that so then I was like okay. So they were casting for there was a scene where Joseph Mazzelo and Ramie Marlik, who no one knew at the time, they come up to a cave and they see like a kid come out and he's like, please don't shoot. And he's a Japanese Souldioke who's clearly just been forced into, you know, into the army. And I get on this bus. There's like six of us, none of us really pursuing acting. Like one is the casting director's neighbors kid. One was someone that like she was at colds shopping was like do you want to read for this thing? Like none of us will.

Yeah. So you weren't like scouted from acting schools or anything. You just were like I'll put my hand up.

We were just happy to be there.

Yeah, it was glad to be.

It wasn't even a thing. And and so we get to the Geelong and we do this read and they're like, okay, so you die. And then Chris and King and Dave Laws and Dave Newton. I can't remember his name right now. He's a huge casting director. Now apologies, i'ven't been in Australia for twelve years. So yeah, I like Hollywood names escape me. That sounded so arrogant.

No, no, no, he did not come across. I don't worry.

So they they liked me, they cast me. And then I was on set two weeks later getting shot by these guys and go to school later that day and he's like, oh, how is it? And I was like yeah, He's like do you see Tom Hanks was like, nah, is anyone famous? Like yeah, this is like weird, Like it's weird, slow guy, It's really intense. And he goes, what's his name, Rami something and this is like two thousand and eight. I don't know, and I just remember it was like years later. As he blew up, he was like, how's it going, dude? That guy is killing it like, I think he's gonna win awards, and then he won like for mister Robot.

Yeah that's right. And You're like I was there when he was just.

Yeah, yeah, I help people. I discovered him yeah yeah yeah, and they launched his career when I was fourteen.

I was Yeah, it was our scene together.

But then he won everything obviously for him in Rhapsody, and it was really cool to see someone I'd never seen someone like start at a level and then just completely explode. So from a young kid getting into the industry, it was it was so awesome to see. And then we ended up working together again on the Little Thing with Denzel Washington and Dared Leedo, which the.

Insane Yeah amazing.

It feels absurd too, because I'm like, I'm from Chadston Shopping Center and like they're from New York or cool places, and so that was really cool. And I remember I went up to one certain He's like, hey for Army, and I was like, hey, Army. We actually worked together when I was like fourteen, and he was just as intent full and slow and purposeful as I remember, and.

Like he s thinks that same way.

Yeah, yeah, he's not changed. So it's really cool. I mean, I think for someone like that who's reached the heights of you know, this entire industry, it's like it's cool to see. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, I no longer desire that, so it's sort of it's cool to have sort of witnessed it. But I think at the time, like I said, I was chasing fame and money and now I now I've completely shove it up and realized that my worth is not tied to you know, acting, and I think it's maybe the fifth or sixth most interesting thing that I consider about myself.

Now, oh my god, well that's the perfect SoundBite for this show, because that is absolutely I think what I'm at pains to show people that, like your career and the amazing things that people achieve is absolutely incredible, but not the totality of your personality or your purpose or meaning in life. But I think you do have to go through that process of sort of setting those goals when you're younger, maybe chasing those ideals for a little while, and then we all have this big realization. But one thing you mentioned about the fact that seeing Rami go from such an early stage in his career to this like astronomical kind of you know, propulsion onto the scenes.

That's the ceiling.

Yeah, I mean that's also what people see you having done, which I think is you obviously, in your humility, won't admit necessarily. But watching at Chatty Boy go from that to you know, the people that you've worked alongside is in some ways implausible. Whether or not you're still chasing the success and the fame, the fact that you did it is incredibly inspiring. So I think if we self select ourselves out of dreams, often because we're like that's impossible, like how could I ever get to Hollywood? And at the time when you started acting, there weren't a lot of roles for Asian actors. Oh no, there still probably aren't that many. It's slowly changing. But for anyone who is aspiring to do either acting specifically, or something that seems impossible, particularly not being born into wealth or being born as the grandson of Steven Spielberg or whatever, you still got opportunities to position yourself to get these incredible roles. And I was actually reading that in your role on Librarians, it was like it wasn't nepotism. It wasn't anything like that. It was a self tape that you did at home with your mom. Yeah, yeah, so you can make it of just like what do you think was the special source and like how much self doubt along the way interacted in like that's impossible. Did you ever think it was impossible or did you just go I'm going to make it to Hollywood.

Well, first thing they clarify, so the self that we Mum, that's a story that someone else ran. I've never actually said that, but really now out there on the internet. It was a guy named James Rummel who did the tape with me, and he'll be very livid if I don't give him Yeah, mum, he'll be running lines for that. But his mom has a very thick Korean accent, and it wouldn't have the chemistry I think would have been.

Well, now that k drama is a thing, it would actually be like a huge advantage to have her in there.

Yeah yeah, yeah, she Yeah, I think she might actually be ethnic or diverse high now, so they need her. But no, I think what I've realized is if you're going to go for anything like a dream and you're gonna a dream big and gun for it. I think I'm living proof that you can get there. Yeah, you have to temper your expectations. I remember getting to Los Angeles and there was a table of like we had like four straight tables at this diner called Barney's of like it was like fifty actors and we had every varying level of act that like people would just get started. People who won logis like all come from Australia, London, South Africa, New Zealand, and we're all there, and we're all there for everything called pilot season, which no longer exists, which is brutal that it was a tough time. It was competitive it friendships would get ruined, like it was it was sort of you had to sort of find safe all butit between all the big personalities and everyone was there for their dream and it was such a unique thing. And now I think back on that table. I thought about this a couple of months ago, and I remember having a snapshot of that night and four of us are still maybe five, maybe six at most, But there was this thing of like only a few of you will make it to the next sort of phase, like in my case, to just even say you're still doing it. What I realized now is it didn't mean that the other people that didn't didn't find happiness or didn't find fulfillment or didn't what it. Ultimately, what I've realized now is is like they actually got started on other things quicker than we did. They have meaning and purpose in all these other facets of their life and then things that really matter, because like I think a lot of actors now there's such a common like message, especially on podcast or on talks with like, you know, achieving your dreams won't give you everything you need. The pot of gold is at the end of the rainbow. It won't be everything. But still now I think there's a lot of people that are coming up and they're like, I know that I just need to burn my hand on that stove. Still I want to see it for myself. And that's totally fine, Yeah, do that, but like you got to know, like you'll hit the point that I hit, which was you look in the mirror one day and you're like, man, I just like the sacrifices you made. I think Joe Keery talks about it in that Chicago song when I'm Back in Chicago and it's this idea that like, you don't see what you're trading off. Yeah, you don't see what you're sacrificing. And now, for the first time in my life, I'm like, priorities like being a better son, being a better friend, being a better uncle, Like, yeah, that's all now filtered in in a way that's like, it's the craziest thing because the work success is like coming in buckets, but it means maybe the least that it's ever meant to me. So it's it's a unique time for me right now.

Yeah, I know, it's a really and it's a it's a I feel so lucky to catch you at this moment because that pivotal shift in your priorities and focus is what this show is all about. But I also do think you do have to burn your hand on the stove and on the way there. There is also the fact that you do have to be willing to sacrifice all those things for the short amount of time, maybe only even in the short term, but even business. It's sort of like people are like, you know, how do you have work life balance, And I'm like, well, the first three years you don't, because that's the bit.

Where grind, you grind culture.

Yeah, and it's not something you can sustain or even that you want forever. But in that bit where you went from, you know, a Tom Hanks and a Steven Spielberg movie is an incredible place to start. It was a big set, which is like amazing. But then you got an amazing role on Neighbors, which you had for quite a while. But you were still at school, like you were juggling that with studies and at a pivotal time of your life. You know, was there ever pressure a to sort of do something conventional and particularly from an immigrant family, did you have pressure to I think a lot of people are swayed away from creative pursuits because they seem so implausible that you could make a career out of it, right and B when you were so focused on the success and the fame and everything, how did you get there? Like for anyone who wants to be an actor and who does still want those incredible roles, how did you get onto those US sets? How did you decide to move from Australia over there? Do pilot season? Face the rejection, the failure, the I'm sure like questioning am I good enough? Am I going to get these roles. I got to make money. I'm broke, like I'm meeting tore minute Nordics, all of that stuff, like what keeps you going? And how do you how did you get to where you are?

So to answer the first question, Mum was so good to me. She never pressured me at or she was I think she she wanted me to be a lawyer or a doctor or a lot of the typical things, but she never really like I think for her after everything sort of that we've been through as a family unit, she just wanted me to be happy and healthy. Oh I love it, And that was sort of I remember, like after the Steven Spielberg think being like I'm going to be on Neighbors and she's like okay, He's like, because that's what you got to do. You've got to go on neighbors and then you go to America and then you hit it big. It's like easy two plus two his four formula.

Yeah.

So then I got yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, very Asian to me. Well she'll be proud now, but no. I So I get an agent and then I read for a part on Neighbors, which I was like I'm manifesting this like I was manifesting before. Manifesting was even too manifesting male and manifesting of my two claims. So then I go in to read for incredible casting director names Lou Mitchell. I was fifteen at the time. She was casting Neighbors, and I read for a part called Dale.

McGregor, I've got that down down with Gregor, which I was like, that is so Asian.

Ridiculous, but I understand it. You know, there's, you know, obviously so many reasons why someone would have a westernized.

Halloway exactly super Korean.

Sample case and point. And so I went in and I think it was like the guy at the time was like Declan. He was like the hot young guy on Neighbors, and I was like, I'd like bully him at lunchtime, which I physically I would have been half his size, and I've never bullied anyone, so I was sort of just like, how do you bully someone? Like? It wasn't like and so I remember the line was like, hey, Declan, nice pants and then like you know, and then just like giving him stick. But she saw something in me. She cast me. So I did that for two years and I would say, the pressure you talked about to get a conventional job, it didn't really come from my mum. I started feeling that pressure when I thought, Oh, the kids at school will love me now because I'm on neighbors. So that was this really sort of monumental moment for me growing up that like I was like, Oh, the kids in school will think I'm worthy of attention. I'll get invited to birthdays. Now, I'll get to go to all these things. Like I'm like, I thought, like, this is going to be the greatest thing ever. I'm on neighbors. Life is sweet. And it was a sort of a watered down version of realizing now what I'm realizing, which is, oh, it doesn't solve everything. And so I would say, and I don't know, I still to this day wrestle with Australia's I don't know if it's an Australian thing or if it's maybe specific to my school, but I think getting on neighbors at in high school it actually made people resisted my desperate advances for love more like I wanted the kids to like me. So I did this thing, and it was like showing them, like, look at this and then it was almost like the opposite effect, like yeah, yeah, yeah, and.

I think our tall poppy culture is not great.

We heard at the time and even now when I explain to Americans like wait, you're on a show with literally like at six six thirty pm the night before and Channel ten like bullying literally bullying Margot Robbie or bullying like you know, yeah, the hem Z whoever, whoever it was at the time, and just being a little heard, and then going to school the next day putting on my uniform and then like the most you would get is like, oh, can you get us her number? And then it's like like oh, And then you would hear like the little whispers, like you walk past into the canteen, you'd hear like I thinks he's Brad Pitt and you're like, oh my, You're like I just want you guys to like me, like and so I that was what I operated out of my entire probably the first decade of my career. It was just I was a hurt kid and I wanted to reapprove. And I don't know if it was Australia because I will say, like the kids in the level above and the kids in the level below were randomly much more supportive, and the kids at the high school down the.

Road, yeah, just not your immediate peers.

It was this weird thing, and I think I was annoying. I think I was too grabby, Like I just wanted them to think something of me and give me, assigned me a value and say I deserve to be invited to the party. And so having to have gone through all that now I realized, like, ugh, even even as the career is doing its thing, I just the hurt kid is the one that needs attention now, the version of John that's getting make up and getting flown to Atlanta tomorrow for press and then I'm gonna be a red cup room and then gone go coastal on the move and get fitted out, like it's that's He's fine. Like the person that I need to deal with and uh, and that I'm attending to now is like, oh, man, like you you just wanted, like I don't know, you wanted to be loved and which is so cliche, but yeah, my god, So that was that's the guy. You know, he's crying right now and I want to I want to let him know everything is going to be fine, you know, oh my.

God, you're really doing the work right now, You're going through it literally like a sense. I mean, I appreciate the vulnerability so much because again, like I think people would expect that what you come on to a podcast like this to talk about is like how glitzy is Hollywood, how amazing is it all? And it's actually like sure in a career sense, which is one facet of this big pie chart of my life. Yeah, it's amazing, and yes I had those goals as a young kid, but actually the bigger reflections are like my inner worth, my family, my joy, the fact that it did take you away from your mum, you know, and you did move to the States, and it did cost you, you know a lot of things that now mean a lot to you.

Yeah, you definitely don't see it at the time, but yeah, it's.

Yeah, and you're young to be having already. This is a cycle that I think a lot of people don't hit this until like their thirties, forties and fifties, when they have chased that success for even longer. I mean, you had it at twenty, and a lot of people don't get the ability to buy their parents' cars until a lot later, so you've done this like speed version of the success cycle.

It went quick. Yeah, the career went sort of gradually went up altitude, like in a very linear and slow way. But the realizations or like the lifestyle, like I was always like going back to hotel rooms. I couldn't sign a least anyway, cause I didn't where I was going to be in two months. Like it was. It was a sort of Hitchhiker's Guide to Los Angeles. But I sort of hit a point where I was like, you know what, We're just going to go all all out and so yeah, to answer your second question, it was just all about like blind faith, like I didn't know. I didn't there was no guarantee, there was nothing to say that I was going to succeed in this industry, and I wanted to go until the wheels fell off. Like I thought, worst case scenario, I'll be twenty five, maybe in debt, maybe with some emotional scarring, but like Mabe trauma, maybe some trauma, yeah, maybe someone telling me my face is unbearable. But like you know, at the time, you're like, oh, you're twenty two, twenty three, you're in Los Angeles, You're just thinking like we're just going for it. And I think for anyone who's ever gone for anything in their life, it's so commendable because it's a scary thing and it's a very brave thing to do. Even just to take the first step is so admirable and in a way, and so for me to still be on the path, it's sort of this funny thing of now like, oh, actually, regardless of all of the success or maybe lack of success, who knows, maybe my phone stops ringing tomorrow, but no doubt it, but you know.

We'll talk about it. Your phone has rung already, which is soer exciting, so that's not going away.

Yeah, I thought it was a prank call.

But well, I mean that's really interesting because I think that is one of the kind of you know, there's no secret source, but if there was to be a secret source that you had to pick, it's the fact that the wording that you used of worse case scenario. I think the fact that you just said worst case it's not that bad, so you just go for it blindly, I think that's the key. It's more when you let all the possible negatives, all the worst case scenarios like the failure. It's when you get overcome by that worst case scenario rather than just going it's not that bad, like I'll just do it. I'll still be in my twenties like it's fine. I think that's the beautiful liberating thing to realize it's not that bad, like I can find something else, but why not just give it a go? And obviously giving it a go has gone incredibly well for you.

It's going going. I mean it's now I'm trying to get it to stop a little bit. Then like the snowballs down the hill and I'm like, oh nah at the hill.

So one thing that I really want to talk to you about because you're in a really unique position of having been in an industry for seventeen years for the not just Asian Australians or Asian Americans, but any people of color, but particularly I think for Asian actors and actresses in this You've been in it in a time where you've gone from being the only non set if any, and very often cast Like you mentioned you're a Japanese soldier. I don't think have you ever been cast as a Korean like actually.

Ever once or twice yeah, okay, once or twice, like.

A seventeen year career to now, and like being cast on things like which is so exciting for me that you're on Hawaii five O. I have watched that entire thing, Like, did Nick tell you we went back to the very beginning? No, we went back to episode one. Yeah, we've watched all ten seasons, including your episode.

That's hilarious.

But again it's like often in these specific roles that were like reserved for Asian actors, not just roles for all actors, and then you happen to be Asian, Whereas I feel like that's been changing a lot recently, and you've been on a press junket for a role in an amazing production which hasn't stereotypically been like the character you are wasn't an Asian character. It was just a character cruel intentions, guys, and you happen to be an Asian actor. So talk to us about how that's changed for you over the last seventeen years from when you started to now.

When I started and then this was my navity. Probably I didn't realize Asian people or Hispanic people, or I didn't realize people of color had their role to play around the default, which was the Caucasian character. I had no idea, and it wasn't until it was pointed out to me, this idea of like, hey, like like I would read for a part. And then a friend of mine like Lincoln unis one of the best Link.

He's been on these guys. I'll put the episode link Yeah in the show.

I love Link and he obviously the most open hearted, genuine human alive. And he would be like, hey, John, there's a part twenty romantic lover boy living up the street. And he'd be like, oh, you should read for this, and I'd be like, oh, I'm not going. They won't read me. And it was something that occurred to me. I was like, wait, they don't read me ever for like that the romantic No, I'm the like weird guy in the bushes, or I'm the funny friend. I'm like a bit of a strange vibe like I'm not then't never let me read for that like And it was like this moment of realization, like hang on a minute. And so I had a call with my manager, who have been with forever and he was like, John, I don't care. I don't care like like it had been pointed out to me that Asian men specifically, and that's what I can speak through that have very different battle than Asian women. Asian women, I guess their role as far as being around the default was this over hyper sexualization of.

The exotic woman.

They would have like a red streak in their hair, and they were a little dangerous and a little like you know.

Could you use a weapon, could use a weapon, could kill you? But yes, yes, it was like silent assassine like.

That was there. That was their stick that Hollywood, these like dudes owning these studios. That was like, that's what they are now. For the Asian men, it was we don't want to see them kissing. Yeah, we don't want see them kissing a girl, Like they don't kiss they're not romantic people, like that's why they're women, you know. Won us like it was this like weird like underlying sort of color to the all the themes and motifs were doing it, and so I didn't care. And I think maybe if i'd known at the time, i'd been aware, I would have been more maybe hesitant, But at the time, I was just like, oh, okay, well that's just all my expectations have been checked at the door anyway. So for Asian men, it sort of became this over every sort of every half decade, there was a slight improvement half decade, every half dat every half decade it was like hellow movie, Yeah, like okay, we can see them holding hands with a girl now yeah, yeah, but not first base, like we don't want to get to that's that's a little no no, no, no, sheek kisses only yeah, and.

So, which is very drama now there, now that goes well.

Now, now, the hyper romanticism of that, it's it's it's wonderful to see, but it was just it's it was kind of crazy, and I think it fed into I never really brought into this idea that I was doing something special. I never bought into this idea that like film and television is this super impactful second education for people during their formative years. And so when I grew up in Australia and it was like, oh, like you know, offhandedly, you know, it's nothing that I haven't and it sort of figured out now, But it was sort of at the time like, oh, Asian men weren't really desirable. Oh, because when you got a TV. They're not really shown in a way that's very oh okay, Like I didn't make that connection, so I didn't really know. And so now it's like really fascinating for someone if someone thinks I'm like handsome. It's still a shock because during the most formative parts of my life, this long term answer locked in of like Asian men.

Aren't attractive and so desirable.

Yeah, and so I remember I dated this beautiful girl when I was like twenty one or twenty two, and like we got back in touch like two years later, and she was like, how are you going. I was like, yeah, She's like, how's it going with the ladies. I was like, oh, I'd be lucky to get a date. And she's like, oh, you're still doing the well was me thing like that stick still works for you? Like, and I don't think she realized that wasn't a stick for me. That was a that was me actually believing that when she'd be like, you have a nice smile, I would just not. It's just didn't I didn't. Yeah, So it's been a real like detangling process of like my child and my my adolescence and and and and now obviously I've had incredible female co stars, romantic co stars that gave me the space to sort of find my feet and and start thinking myself a little bit as like, Okay, I'm not like a full catch, but I'm like, I'm okay, I'm not like like I'm like Cat. I'm like a sense of humor, a decent personality. But yeah, I really had to sort of see, I've seen the industry change, and the ultimate conclusion I've I've realized is there's always going to be things that are unfair and and and things that really just ultimately need to change. But if I had known that ahead of time, I might not have pursued acting. So to sort of blindly just pursue it was sort of what got me ultimately here. And now, like I realized, like a lot of roles I read now are like, hey, he like goes on a date with the girl, and I'm like, wow, this is like like teenage me would be like no way.

I kind of think that aavity and a lot of scenarios is actually better that you don't go into it knowing the full risks, because it's that blissful ignorance is kind of amazing. But I also think that for an industry that is often considered quite not vacuous, but I think a lot of people think that they can act like that we all could act like if we tried hard enough, we could all do acting. It's just like, not necessarily, I don't think people understand. It can seem really superficial, it can seem really surface level. But when you think about the impact of that industry just on your life has in your reflection of how you see yourself, even from someone who knows from the inside how convoluted it is, the fact that you didn't think necessarily that you were a romantic, desirable person because of what you saw in the media around you. It's actually it's such a powerful industry, like what you see around you in TV, movies, even advertising visibility. Yeah, it reflects the world in your brain in a way that you don't even realize that you're not considering yourself like your dating life because of the way that you're being cast, which is fascinating and I think a really interesting reflection of how important it is that you have been cast increasingly in roles that aren't just reserved for the Asian guy, and that I mean talk to us about cruel intentions, like that's a super like tell us about your role and how that's that's changed.

It's cool. Yeah, it was sort of just an open call. I don't think they had a specific person of color in mind, or they had an idea. I think they just wanted people to read the role originated was originated in the film at least by Joshua Jackson, who is he's the best, Like he's one of those handsome charismatic I think he's I respect his career so much, and I think it was sort of cool to especially I grew up a massive Mighty Ducks fan. Oh my god. To like be like to like Charlie Conway was.

Oh my god.

I was like, oh, I'm playing a part of that that actor did and it was a cool like it was a real feather in my cap. I wore that like a badge because it was like it was cool because I just know that ten years ago it wouldn't have happened. Yeah, and so now it's like it's wonderful and I value it. I'm not ungrateful, but I'm also, like I mentioned, it's regardless, I would have found something else. So we found my way, Like, you know, I think at the end of the day, when you realize everything's going to be okay, you're just like, okay, cool. So it's a great opportunity. It's a great part. I didn't even know what I'm allowed to say about it.

Oh yeah, okay, yeah, that's true that it's amazing.

Yeah's trouble. I think I can say that, and I think the show will find its audience and yeah, I think it comes out. I don't know where the time of recording. It's only a couple weeks away.

So oh, I got We watched the trailer last night.

I was like, oh my god, there's my friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You should have seen Nick. He absolutely lost well the next announce on his one that he absolutely lost his bananas about. Yeah, but before we moved to that, and that will be potentially time sensitive, I would be REMISSI me not to ask, and I know that, Like, I don't want to portray that acting is your own type personality. But we are so lucky to have your time. You do have so much behind the scenes. Like one of the things I love doing is shedding a light on stuff that the average person just wouldn't get to know, right, So, like, who's the coolest person you've met?

Okay, what are.

Some of like the random nitty gritty stuff about like being in a trailer on set or stuff that just from the outside you would have no idea, like actors' tricks, like how do you cry on demand? Like those kind of things that we just.

Think industry secrets.

Yeah, the industry secrets that are and especially the shit ones, you know, like the ones that are like nitty gritty or not glamorous.

Yeah.

And there's a Denzel story as well. I want you to tell there's oh yeah, yeah, yeah, which I've heard from like four different people.

It's the first thing everyone asks is what was it like when in Denzel? And yeah, I mean it was an honor, it was a privilege. But I had a friend of ours had worked with him previously, and his advice was, when you see him on set, just you know, respectful, treat him like anybody else. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I was like, it's dense. You treat him like anybody else. Hey, that's your living god, he's And so I remember showing up to set and we sort of went through the works and see RAMI have a reunion with him after however many years, and then okay, where's the big dog? And he goes, oh, any points and he's there. He's like, there's a chair. He's sitting by himself, and he's got like one leg over the other, and he's like he just looks so cool. He looks so like he's like and I'm like, okay, well what do I do with this? You know, it's his movie. I'm going to go introduce myself and pay respect, and I'm gonna be here for a week or two. So it was substantial enough like reason to go over. And I remember going over and and he's sitting there. He's just sort of and it looks really cool. Yeah. Yeah, And I'm like, I'm so nervous. I think I had my hand out like maybe fifty meters away, like it was like like walking like this, like just like I you know, I'm ready, so nervous, and I'm like I'm shaken, really like I'm sorry. And in the back of my head, I think I'm like everyone else on set is watching this because he's such a presence, and and I go up to him and I'm I'm like, mister Denzel Washington sir, my name's John, and I'm really excited to work with you. Yes, smooth, Yeah, And it was, it was, it was. He was really gracious about it. He was like a welcome young man. And he he let me hang for a second because I think he was processing what I just said, also like and what you were doing, Stach, is this going on our movie? Like is he like? And so in that second I thought, I thought, oh, no, he's gonna like is he gonna And and then I was just thinking like maybe I walked past him and pretend like it was going to someone else, But he was really he was really sweet about it. And and yeah, that's probably one moment I've been like sweaty like about like fangirling. So yeah, oh my god, that was that one.

I would no one in the world could not fangirl every day.

She was the best. He's the best. But then as far as industry secrets, it's kind of like in Harry Potter, you know that they talk about the room of requirement, like the door is wherever you can find it. Yeah, yeah, like for people like like you mentioned like crying, like for a lot of people, it's I have to go away put on music, or I can just you know, look at a spot and I can start getting a little deary about it. And then there's this one girl I worked with who she can on cue cry on either eye, so if the camera's on this side, she can go right side, or the cameras on this touch you can go left side. And she can control the tempo of out which the tears shut up, so she can time it like, let's say, like the very last line of the scenes like I love You, she can weld up, well it up, and then she can literally hit it on like I love You single tear no, and I'm convinced she can get it to go back up at this point like I'm giving she yeah, and I'm like oh, And then sometimes you just have to pay respect to people that you're like, I will never be able to do that. But oh that was really that was crazy.

Okay, So you mentioned the Denzel bit you thought everyone was watching you when you're on a big set, and I mean the fact that your first set was such a big one is probably good in terms of it not being so foreign when you actually were in a main role. Do you forget, like I always wonder when you're watching like Friends, for example, and it looks like you're totally in the zone, as if they are really who they are. But then sometimes you watch the behind the scenes and you're like, oh my god, live audience, Like how could they block that out and focus? Do you not see the fifty people who are watching it? Or do you just get used to it?

It's like the compartmentalization is crazy, and it act his brain because you're conscious of you get to a point where you learn each skill and then you're able to galvanize them into this very like effortless way. So like, yeah, we talked about like romantic scenes and everyone's like, oh, I don't know how I could do that without like getting feelings or being awkward or getting a bonut, whatever your reaction to it is.

You know, I wasn't going to go there, like genuinely.

I mean it's it's people physically touching each other. And so thankfully now we have intimacy coordinators and things like that to kind of oversee everything. That was sort of a new introduction. But the biggest thing was I've realized is like when you're acting, your your brain is so focused on where the light that like the light they're trying to hit you with where the camera is, where the boom mic is am I saying it at a level that am I staying in frame? Am I on the right? Like the prop that I need to show is that it's coming up into frame? Is it high enough? Like it's so technical, so the people that are able to make it look as like untechnical as possible, at least technical as possible. That's the true art form in like hitting your mark, turning knowing, Okay, this person's a little off their mark, and so I'm behind the camera now, so I need to actually give them that it just on the fly, say the line, hit your light and look naturally, you've a good read, look natural, and then give you your co star enough. It's like that's the art of film and telvision to me now, it's insane. Yeah. And then there's some people who are like, I'm an artist, just follow me with the camera.

I was, Yeah, I can't, I.

Can't do I know, I know my limitations. Yeah.

So your method is it like you become the character that you are for the duration of the filming or are you really like on off or I'm on off.

I've never been I don't want to say good enough because I don't want to put it in like fields of like good and bad. But like, there are actors who are incredible and have to stay in character to give the performance that they need to give. Yeah, I don't necessarily see how that would work for me. But like for me, it's like I've already worked on the accent for months and months. I've already worked on the character for months and months. I've worked on what he's you know, we've done the fitting, we've done hair and makeup test, so I know the kind of cadence of maybe like the voice or whatever. But at the end of the day, like for me, it's it's just about giving a great read, being there for my my scene partner, and moving forward. So maybe it's a boring approach, but it's sort of just the approach that's worked for me.

Maybe healthier as well, because you're not like, am.

I yeah, yeah, I've learned now, like and this is any thing I don't make. Go for a job interview the other day and he's like, dude, I should have done this, I should have worn these socks and I should have and I'm like and welcome to being an actor, it's all about like overthinking your choices totally. So I think that's something I've come off thankfully because that was ahead mess messes.

And so for your lines, that's something I always wonder about, like the TV that I do, which is so different obviously, I like we sometimes get teleprompters if it's really technical, if it's something like a lot of a wellness is like ingredients for pharmaceuticals and stuff, so you have to memorize some chunks, but like not really And then when I think about that, and then I think about the length of an episode of a TV show and the lines that you have to but also I'm being myself. You're pretending to be someone else and making it natural. How much are you memorizing at once? Like in one day are you filming? Like do you just remember a block and then you've cut that and then you move to the next block, Like I just and get how you guys remember your lines?

Yeah, it's a lot cruel intentions. Phoebe Fisher who she came from Euphoria and Sarah Goodman came from the original Gossip Girl. They were our showrunners and when they put the scripts together, the dialogue is fast, witty, quick snap action. It's very succession y but set in a college sort of world.

Yeah, so I'm excited.

So that was the kind of that was a really hard adjustment for some of the cast because they were maybe more used to shows that the dialogue wasn't as tight. Yeah, it was real sharp and it was real like just it was so witty that the scripts were incredible and cruel, and so it was cool to see everyone's process. Some of them would you know, call me up the night before and like, can we just run lines on the phone? Right? Some of them would do their own things. Some of them were able to show up in the morning how read it'd be like, cool, we're moving. For me, I'm pretty slow, So for me I would just have to sit there with my coach and be like all right, line one and just like you just start getting to work on it and eventually you stuck in a rhythm. And yeah, I would love to say have a photo photographic memory, but I'm from Chatty.

I was always wondering how you do it without one, Like, so would you have when you're actually filming? Would you just have your paper like there and you're kind of going back and both back and forth.

Yeah, a lot of people will bring their scripts to set, which either shows you're unprepared or it shows you're open to collaborating. It depends on you know, wait, people shut up without it.

Yeah, what how do you remember the work?

My first day on the Librarians, I think I was nineteen, and Noel Wiley, who was the lead, came over. He came off er, which is just all medical jargon.

Yez, that's the thing. I'm like, how do they do that without looking like they're remembering?

He was incredible. Yeah, he came up and he saw me with my scripting. He went okay, and it was like and I was like, I just saw everyone else bringing their their scripts and I realized on Er they had a rule doing it. Yeah. Sorry, he explained that. He's like, she's it basically meant you didn't do your work on the weekend. Yeah, So I was like, I'm going to do my work on because I don't want to feel like I don't know what I'm talking about.

To be fair, the amount of like Er and House that I've watched, I could like radle off some suck ordosis.

It's a proper like you're a qualified doctor. Now obviously I think that's how you treat people.

But that blows my mind, especially without feeling like you have a photographic memory still being able to do it and with the emotion that you need to bring.

There and you're bringing on an accent, and then it's it's a hard job. I say like this, people go, I want to get into acting. I go, it is the easiest hard thing you'll ever do in your life, because it's just going to be. It's going to in some ways, it's going to be like quite natural. In some ways you're gonna be like, oh, it wasn't expecting like, oh, half my job is like not looking sweaty in a scene that was shooting in the middle of summer because it's been win so I'm in this hoodie and like like it's a random, random, random industry.

Yeah, okay, And what about the like prep in terms of accents training, Like you mentioned that you've got some training coming up that you need to do, like when you have to do bodily changes and stuff like do you get a timeline? And they're like, from now you know that you need to look like this by then or sound like this by then yeah, and then you get the resources or do you go do it yourself? Like how do you work that out?

It's the worst. Yeah, it's the worst. Sucks. When I was twenty or when I was younger, I definitely, I definitely like probably broached like eating disorder territory with it because you were so committed to the part and you wanted to do a great job for them. And as I explained it was my coach started had explained to me that recently. She was like I remember that time you lost the light in your eyes and I was like, oh wow, so I really went like far. But it's the worst because you put this pressure on yourself. Then you get a script and let's say your character his name is Adam. It'll say Adam takes his shirt off, his body is more incredible than we ever imagined, Like who who wrote this? And also like I want to look like I like Adam. There's no need for Adam is a twenty eight year old accountant. Why does he have a ten pass? Why? Yeah? Like why would it? And I'm like I want to look like I run twice week and maybe skip the Zingerburger every now and then, Like that's the body I would like to portray the live in. Yeah, it's definitely obviously it's a well documented thing, the bodily pressures of being in Hollywood, and I think even worse for women. So I mean, I can complain all like one, but I think I think as bad as it is for guys who feel like they need to show off their abs or whatever, I think women have a whole other just boat load of insecurities and things that get surfaced and brought up because because like I think the industry has a problem, like it has a bodily image problem, and I just like my favorite actor is now like James Gandelfini from Sopranos or John Taturo or Bill Camp or all these guys that are just like it's not about the the superhero look. It's it's more just you know, going to be a real person and do people want to watch this? And is it interesting? And can I connect? But that's maybe also just in line with my mentality now of like, oh, it doesn't define you, it doesn't really matter at the end of the day.

It's interesting that you said the pressures for women. Perhaps I actually think that we've come a long way in understanding what those pressures are. Whereas I think for men it's dismissed. It's sort of like you're not allowed to have body image is shoes because you're a dude. Yeah, Whereas it's almost like it's not as accepted for you to be self conscious.

Yeah.

To Like, I've had a lot of guys sort of say they don't feel as comfortable to have body image issues because it's not accepted as a masculine problem, you know what I mean. Like it is like, oh, women can, but like men can't, right, Yeah, Or they wouldn't talk about having an eating disorder or author ex or anything because it's less well known.

It goes in both ways in a sense. I think I think overall improvement needs to happen. But in my opinion, I can't speak for the vast majority, but I think at the end of the day, like there needs to be injected a higher level of compassion.

Yeah.

And I think this idea of like just ridiculously cut or ridiculously you know whatever sexy and trendy at the time bodies for guys and girls, I think it just we need to come back, We need to come off it because we're all born different and like you know, like men will get be sensitive about their height and you realize it's not Actually it's less to do with like oh they walk around being like I can't reach something. It's more to do with like it's not funny. It's not like an actual like day to day thing. It's an internal like thing of like what it means to be taller or shorter or average hime.

What society thinks.

Or what society do you think? And I'm living proof of like I let society and their opinions move me to another country for twelve years, so like whilst I found success and whatnot, I feel a little like Frodo, Like I went to the shift the Shire and now I'm like coming back and they're like, how are you doing? And I'm like still burnt from Ount Mortal, but I dropped the ring and I feel that's what it feels like. I feel like I've definitely gone out and learned some stuff. I met some great friends, but I think it's time for this hobbit to kind of come back to the Shire for a little bit.

Yeah, well, we'd be thrilled with that we did actually go and get oh my god, well before you do that, you do have one very big project which is just coming out, which Nick is thrilled about.

He is more excited than I am, absolutely more excited than you. Incredible.

Yeah, I know you can't say much about it, but say what you can. Congratulations, thank you, and then coming back to the Shire after that.

Yeah. Yeah, so I guess I recently found out I'm going to be doing a movie at least until now, because because things are subject to change obviously in this industry, at a moment's notice, you.

Could be cutting this whole bit exactly.

Himself. No. I it's looking at this time of recording like I'll be jumping on the new live action Vultron, so that should be fun. But Nick is more. He was at the cafe like eyes like just blown up, and he ran.

Home to tell me as if it was like you were pregnant or ya.

I was like, okay, well, if I got married that day, he wouldn't have mentioned it. It would have been all about that.

Yeah, I would have said it on Instagram, be like, why need you tell me You're at his wedding Jesus, Well that's super exciting. Congratulations, But I think actually the bigger congratulations for you is where you're at right now with It's funny that at the very beginning you said you looked at other kids and you were like, Wow, they're all really like balanced and well adjusted, Whereas I think that that's what I think of is you right now, You're coming to this table like very well adjusted, like very grounded in a lot of perspective. It sounds like you've been through a lot of reflection.

As as everyone. You know, I don't own the rights to being insecure or being in my own head or overthinking, so I'm conscious of that. And you know, if I have a wish for myself for the next fifty sixty, seventy years or however long I'm allowed to live, it's just like just just treating people really nicely. And yeah, I think that's that's sort of I just want to be a good person, which a good man, you know, which is I think that's going to be a for evolusive goal, but you know, we'll keep chasing.

I think you're doing pretty well well. Thank you so much for joining. It's been an absolute pleasure, And I'll include links in the show notes to everything you're doing, all the places people can find you want to picture of the camera get I can go, oh my god, that is going to be the cover of the episode. And like, your mom needs her own page, so we can all just get around it. If I found out anyone is going to.

Be a mom, she would she is. She's loving life right now.

I know I have to invite her. She's definitely coming to Teddy's Furst. You're not invited because you'll be away, but she, she is.

She'll bring actual rice cakes. Yes, thank you so much, thanks SIRH appreciate you.

I mean I was blown away the first time I had this chat, but I've continued to be so every time I've listened. It was just such an incredible, real time insight into the very essence of finding your deepest, truest yea and wading through what society considers to be the pinnacle of success. I mean, there's nothing glitzy and glamorous than Hollywood, and John has gone on to achieve things I'm sure childhood him could never have dreamed would come true. And yes, of course it's incredible as he acknowledges, but also watching him weigh his way back to other things that give him joy and the things that really matter to him. All of that clarity coming in was just so fascinating to listen to. I hung on to every single word, and if you did too, you'll understand why. I would especially love your support more than usual in thanking John for his time, for being so vulnerable with something that's such a recent revelation, for him, for coming on a podcast when he never does them, and I still can't believe this is his first one. Just what an absolute legend. He is such a nice guy. From the first time I met him, I was just taken by his humility and his kindness and warmth. So please share the episode if you enjoyed it, any takeaways you've had along the way, or if you're watching him in crauel intentions, do tag him let him know what you think at John Harlan Kim on Instagram. I mean, just an absolute legend. I feel so lucky to have had him on the show this week. In the meantime, what a big few weeks it's been of incredible chats and guests. We're really well and truly getting our momentum back after such a slowed down as I got used to life with Teddy, but it's wonderful to be back in the flow. Thank you all so much for the support and love and listening along. I hope you're all feeling festive and are seizing your yay

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Seize the Yay

A lawyer turned funtrepreneur's investigation into how some of the world's most inspiring people fin 
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