Scrubbing In with Becca Tilly and Tanya red An iHeartRadio Podcast.

Scrubbing In with Becca Tilly and Tanya red An iHeartRadio Podcast.

Hello everybody, we are scrubbing in.

Hello everybody, we are scrubbing in.

Yes, we are in our matching Stanley's.

Yes, we are in our matching Stanley's.

Almost matching, same size, same size, but not the same color. Yeah, but it's fine, Yeah, because we're scrubbing in exactly. And we don't have just one special guest today. We have two special guests and they happen to be a couple, which we love.

Almost matching, same size, same size, but not the same color. Yeah, but it's fine, Yeah, because we're scrubbing in exactly. And we don't have just one special guest today. We have two special guests and they happen to be a couple, which we love.

We love a couple.

We love a couple.

We love a couple. And one is an actor, a singer, a producer, a director, and now a podcaster. She is extremely passionate about issues concerning children and has been a longtime supporter of the Make a Wish Foundation and continues to support organizations and causes lifting up the LGBTQ plus community.

We love a couple. And one is an actor, a singer, a producer, a director, and now a podcaster. She is extremely passionate about issues concerning children and has been a longtime supporter of the Make a Wish Foundation and continues to support organizations and causes lifting up the LGBTQ plus community.

Our other guests grew up around the entertainment industry. Early in her professional career, she spent time as a writer's assistant and developed this skill into the personal assistant world, managing and overseeing the lives of multiple high level talent.

Our other guests grew up around the entertainment industry. Early in her professional career, she spent time as a writer's assistant and developed this skill into the personal assistant world, managing and overseeing the lives of multiple high level talent.

This power was building a lifestyle brand that will inspire, educate, and help others through thought provoking content and meaningful conversations.

This power was building a lifestyle brand that will inspire, educate, and help others through thought provoking content and meaningful conversations.

Please help us give a warm Welcome to Raven Simone and Mirandom may Day.

Please help us give a warm Welcome to Raven Simone and Mirandom may Day.

How are you going? Wow, y'all, studio is so cute. Thank you.

How are you going? Wow, y'all, studio is so cute. Thank you.

I'm taking full credit for it because I designed it, so thank you.

I'm taking full credit for it because I designed it, so thank you.

Is this gonna be this is your setup that you're gonna be doing your podcast from?

Is this gonna be this is your setup that you're gonna be doing your podcast from?

This is our podcast set up?

This is our podcast set up?

Yes?

Yes?

WHOA?

WHOA?

Can we get right into the podcast and talk about like where the idea came about? When did the idea come about? And doing it together as a couple.

Can we get right into the podcast and talk about like where the idea came about? When did the idea come about? And doing it together as a couple.

Yes.

Yes.

Idea kind of first started when we had our YouTube channel and we had something called Tea Time and we would sit down and we'd.

Idea kind of first started when we had our YouTube channel and we had something called Tea Time and we would sit down and we'd.

Pick a topic. We would just talk about that and drink.

Pick a topic. We would just talk about that and drink.

Tea or eat a meal whatever. And then the YouTube channel started to fizz out.

Tea or eat a meal whatever. And then the YouTube channel started to fizz out.

Of our ether because it was a lot of work.

Of our ether because it was a lot of work.

But I had always wanted to start a podcast and it took me like two years to basically get to a place where you know, I had tried and failed and tried, and Raven was like, Okay, I'm down.

But I had always wanted to start a podcast and it took me like two years to basically get to a place where you know, I had tried and failed and tried, and Raven was like, Okay, I'm down.

You've convinced me.

You've convinced me.

I'll do a podcast with you, but it has to have some fun, unique twists to it. So we were like, let's take the tea time. Idea, let's flip it on sead a little bit and make it more random.

I'll do a podcast with you, but it has to have some fun, unique twists to it. So we were like, let's take the tea time. Idea, let's flip it on sead a little bit and make it more random.

And here here we are.

And here here we are.

Wait, so what's the what is the twist? I know what the twist is, but for those who are listening, what's the twist?

Wait, so what's the what is the twist? I know what the twist is, but for those who are listening, what's the twist?

What's the twist?

What's the twist?

Bag?

Bag?

So what happened is, uh, we spin a wheel and the wheel lands on a random word that my wife, myself and our guest has no clue what that word is, and we.

So what happened is, uh, we spin a wheel and the wheel lands on a random word that my wife, myself and our guest has no clue what that word is, and we.

Talk about it for however I long we want to talk about.

Talk about it for however I long we want to talk about.

It, Like, what have y'all y'all done? Y'all recorded episodes? Correct?

It, Like, what have y'all y'all done? Y'all recorded episodes? Correct?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Can you give a hint? Or wait? So if the listener, does the listener know what the word is or is it kind of like they guess what the random word is?

Can you give a hint? Or wait? So if the listener, does the listener know what the word is or is it kind of like they guess what the random word is?

No?

No?

No, No.

No, No.

Basically what happens is we spin the wheel. You hear this as a listener, you'll hear the sound effect of the wheel. You'll hear a ding, and then we will at that ding moment, we get the words sent to us from our producer, and we know what the word is and then we announce it. So, for example, we'd be like, oh, the word is zebra, and then our guest is like what, and we're like what, and then we talk about Zebra's.

Basically what happens is we spin the wheel. You hear this as a listener, you'll hear the sound effect of the wheel. You'll hear a ding, and then we will at that ding moment, we get the words sent to us from our producer, and we know what the word is and then we announce it. So, for example, we'd be like, oh, the word is zebra, and then our guest is like what, and we're like what, and then we talk about Zebra's.

That's really hard.

That's really hard.

It's easy, Actually, no, it is.

It's easy, Actually, no, it is.

I mean, like, sure, you have to be a little bit more present maybe, but actually fun. And it's interesting to see how a word like zebra, for example, you would go okay, yeah, I used to have these.

I mean, like, sure, you have to be a little bit more present maybe, but actually fun. And it's interesting to see how a word like zebra, for example, you would go okay, yeah, I used to have these.

I used to have these pair of zebra boots. They were made of pony and I used to wear them all the time. The Red Carpets. I had to be like fifteen years old.

I used to have these pair of zebra boots. They were made of pony and I used to wear them all the time. The Red Carpets. I had to be like fifteen years old.

And when I I was like seven or eight years old, I started going to the Wild Animal Kingdom and I loved looking at the Zebras. The Zebras were literally my favorite animals.

And when I I was like seven or eight years old, I started going to the Wild Animal Kingdom and I loved looking at the Zebras. The Zebras were literally my favorite animals.

And look at you in a black and white relationship right.

And look at you in a black and white relationship right.

Now, I'd say, very impressive. Was that very impressive?

Now, I'd say, very impressive. Was that very impressive?

Did you ever notice if the Zebras were next to the cheetah girls taking it there? Thank you?

Did you ever notice if the Zebras were next to the cheetah girls taking it there? Thank you?

I didn't ever notice if I saw any cheetah girls next to the Zebras, But I wasn't looking for the cheeta.

I didn't ever notice if I saw any cheetah girls next to the Zebras, But I wasn't looking for the cheeta.

Girls, so I don't know.

Girls, so I don't know.

I am, oh, were you gonna? No?

I am, oh, were you gonna? No?

I do want to talk about the dynamic of working with your significant other because you guys have been together for a minute.

I do want to talk about the dynamic of working with your significant other because you guys have been together for a minute.

Three years, well, married.

Three years, well, married.

For three years, but together for how long?

For three years, but together for how long?

Oh? Was this a controversial topic? No?

Oh? Was this a controversial topic? No?

I think twenty fifteen.

I think twenty fifteen.

Yeah, but we weren't together from twenty fifteen till now grow woh, okay, okay, like calculating it, vacation time, all that kind of stuff.

Yeah, but we weren't together from twenty fifteen till now grow woh, okay, okay, like calculating it, vacation time, all that kind of stuff.

I think it would be like four years total.

I think it would be like four years total.

We got back Torether and got married real fast.

We got back Torether and got married real fast.

Would you do you like working together or is it like a weird dynamic working with your partner, Because I feel like I'm putting myself in that situation, and I feel like, if I was doing the podcast, it's she's my best friend, But if it was my boyfriend, I feel like, are there ever any things that come up where you're like, oh, hell, I mean yeah.

Would you do you like working together or is it like a weird dynamic working with your partner, Because I feel like I'm putting myself in that situation, and I feel like, if I was doing the podcast, it's she's my best friend, But if it was my boyfriend, I feel like, are there ever any things that come up where you're like, oh, hell, I mean yeah.

Of course.

Of course.

I mean since I was born, I've worked with my family. My parents were my managers, and it's always been like a quote unquote family business. So when my wife expressed that she wanted to work with me, I kind of understood how to do that. And yeah, yeah, it gets a little cloudy and murky here and there when things and tension goes up or we don't agree on something, but at the end of the day, we know what this, why we're doing it, and we got to just.

I mean since I was born, I've worked with my family. My parents were my managers, and it's always been like a quote unquote family business. So when my wife expressed that she wanted to work with me, I kind of understood how to do that. And yeah, yeah, it gets a little cloudy and murky here and there when things and tension goes up or we don't agree on something, but at the end of the day, we know what this, why we're doing it, and we got to just.

Blink down to the eye on the front. You can compartmentalize. Yeah, that's huge.

Blink down to the eye on the front. You can compartmentalize. Yeah, that's huge.

Yeah. We had another guest on who does a podcast with our husband, and I was saying that, So my girlfriend and came on our podcast and when we right before we were supposed to do it, and it was like our we had just come out publicly and we had been together for four years at this point. We came out publicly and it was the first time where we were kind of like talking about our love story and we were both running late to the podcast and got in a fight before we had to go on and talk about our beautiful story, and so it was just like had to decompress, but like just kind of had to show up for it. So I was curious if you had had any of those moments of like, obviously we get what it's like working together, but there is that dynamic with your partner where it's like it's business, you know.

Yeah. We had another guest on who does a podcast with our husband, and I was saying that, So my girlfriend and came on our podcast and when we right before we were supposed to do it, and it was like our we had just come out publicly and we had been together for four years at this point. We came out publicly and it was the first time where we were kind of like talking about our love story and we were both running late to the podcast and got in a fight before we had to go on and talk about our beautiful story, and so it was just like had to decompress, but like just kind of had to show up for it. So I was curious if you had had any of those moments of like, obviously we get what it's like working together, but there is that dynamic with your partner where it's like it's business, you know.

Yeah, there definitely is.

Yeah, there definitely is.

I think that it's it builds a different layer of like resiliency I think in your relationship, and I think it also like you were just saying, when you have that argument but then you have to go show up, it helps you get over things more quickly in a way, I think because it changes the energy so quickly when you like have to go put on a happy face. We've done things before where we've had an argument before.

I think that it's it builds a different layer of like resiliency I think in your relationship, and I think it also like you were just saying, when you have that argument but then you have to go show up, it helps you get over things more quickly in a way, I think because it changes the energy so quickly when you like have to go put on a happy face. We've done things before where we've had an argument before.

There's one that sticks out to.

There's one that sticks out to.

Me significantly because I was in such a bad mood and I was just like, the last thing I want to do right now is just be like happy and conversational. I don't want to talk to anyone, see anyone. I don't want to be around Raven. But you know, the show must go on. And there's something in that that also made me go, wow, that's a new strength for me to pull on where I can actually like get over the bad mood and move through it more quickly because I'd actually rather be in a happy state than an upset state in general, learn how to fix that. But yeah, we're humans easy.

Me significantly because I was in such a bad mood and I was just like, the last thing I want to do right now is just be like happy and conversational. I don't want to talk to anyone, see anyone. I don't want to be around Raven. But you know, the show must go on. And there's something in that that also made me go, wow, that's a new strength for me to pull on where I can actually like get over the bad mood and move through it more quickly because I'd actually rather be in a happy state than an upset state in general, learn how to fix that. But yeah, we're humans easy.

I saw a quote that you did. I don't know if it was right when you came out Raven, but you were saying how you kind of had this thought of like not knowing if you would ever publicly feel comfortable being out and you were kind of like, Okay, I'll have a boyfriend or a husband, and then I'll have a friend my best friend. Have you read Seven Husbands of Evely and Hugo, Oh my god, I have. Okay. It reminded me of that when I saw the quote, because I was like, that's kind of what she decided to do.

I saw a quote that you did. I don't know if it was right when you came out Raven, but you were saying how you kind of had this thought of like not knowing if you would ever publicly feel comfortable being out and you were kind of like, Okay, I'll have a boyfriend or a husband, and then I'll have a friend my best friend. Have you read Seven Husbands of Evely and Hugo, Oh my god, I have. Okay. It reminded me of that when I saw the quote, because I was like, that's kind of what she decided to do.

Yeah, as you remember, I told you about the book and I was like, oh, it's a lesbian love story and she was you.

Yeah, as you remember, I told you about the book and I was like, oh, it's a lesbian love story and she was you.

Might not, I kind of do. She was a celebrity.

Might not, I kind of do. She was a celebrity.

Yeah, I was wondering if you that's where your inspo was because I was like, oh, that sounds like that's not really.

Yeah, I was wondering if you that's where your inspo was because I was like, oh, that sounds like that's not really.

My genre of book. Can give me like the Da Vinci Code any day.

My genre of book. Can give me like the Da Vinci Code any day.

Other things.

Other things.

I'm like, I live this, I don't have to read about it.

I'm like, I live this, I don't have to read about it.

Obviously.

Obviously.

The Triggering Book, I even remember reading that and I was like, this is it's so real, Like it's yeah, I think it would trigger you all the triggers.

The Triggering Book, I even remember reading that and I was like, this is it's so real, Like it's yeah, I think it would trigger you all the triggers.

Listen.

Listen.

That mentality was based off of what the societal norms were at the time. Growing up, and as I continued to live in my skin unapologetically slash with masks on still, you know, I slowly found a way to feel comfortable by peeking my head and my eyes above that mask. And then with this podcast with my wife, there's a new mask that I've created where it's closer to who I am, but with entertainment still there. Because it's really important to keep some of yourself outside, I mean, keep some of yourself inside to where the public's not stealing your entire soul.

That mentality was based off of what the societal norms were at the time. Growing up, and as I continued to live in my skin unapologetically slash with masks on still, you know, I slowly found a way to feel comfortable by peeking my head and my eyes above that mask. And then with this podcast with my wife, there's a new mask that I've created where it's closer to who I am, but with entertainment still there. Because it's really important to keep some of yourself outside, I mean, keep some of yourself inside to where the public's not stealing your entire soul.

Yeah, I feel like you know a lot about that, and yeah, yeah, I felt like when going through, when I was still publicly in the closet, like I was out with everyone in my life, but I remember thinking I came from the bachelor world, so it was like very hetero and very conservative, and so when it was like, you know, I finally felt safe to come out, I just had this support system around me. So there wasn't that much fear around like what the public would say or thing, because there was like the people that mattered that were supporting me. So I didn't know if you had that experience when you made that decision, because you had a lot more eyes on you and came from a very child based programming.

Yeah, I feel like you know a lot about that, and yeah, yeah, I felt like when going through, when I was still publicly in the closet, like I was out with everyone in my life, but I remember thinking I came from the bachelor world, so it was like very hetero and very conservative, and so when it was like, you know, I finally felt safe to come out, I just had this support system around me. So there wasn't that much fear around like what the public would say or thing, because there was like the people that mattered that were supporting me. So I didn't know if you had that experience when you made that decision, because you had a lot more eyes on you and came from a very child based programming.

When I came out, I had the support of my friends, but I also don't keep a very large friend group, not the support of my family to be one hundred, and I had the support of the government, so I felt like I was good. Like, if you have something to say, the government says it's legal, so gives mess. That's kind of how I felt about it. My partner at the time was obviously very supportive and was like, Oh, thank god, you can stop like hiding me, you know. And then yeah, it's difficult. It's difficult to come out without a support group. But then there comes a point sometimes where your mental health and human being needs to be free and you just don't give up anymore, you know what I mean.

When I came out, I had the support of my friends, but I also don't keep a very large friend group, not the support of my family to be one hundred, and I had the support of the government, so I felt like I was good. Like, if you have something to say, the government says it's legal, so gives mess. That's kind of how I felt about it. My partner at the time was obviously very supportive and was like, Oh, thank god, you can stop like hiding me, you know. And then yeah, it's difficult. It's difficult to come out without a support group. But then there comes a point sometimes where your mental health and human being needs to be free and you just don't give up anymore, you know what I mean.

Yeah, that's kind of Actually reading Seven Husbands, I was like, it almost felt so parallel to what I was navigating that it gave It gave me this like weird feeling of what am I I'm living my life for other people, worrying about the opinion of people who don't even know me, and it was kind of that reality. So and just thanks for sharing that. I wanted to touch on that, just because.

Yeah, that's kind of Actually reading Seven Husbands, I was like, it almost felt so parallel to what I was navigating that it gave It gave me this like weird feeling of what am I I'm living my life for other people, worrying about the opinion of people who don't even know me, and it was kind of that reality. So and just thanks for sharing that. I wanted to touch on that, just because.

I mean, thanks for understanding the strugg There are so many people that go through that that don't have words to attach it to, don't necessarily know what that feeling is and needs communication and the right vocabulary to express it and to know that they're not going through it by themselves.

I mean, thanks for understanding the strugg There are so many people that go through that that don't have words to attach it to, don't necessarily know what that feeling is and needs communication and the right vocabulary to express it and to know that they're not going through it by themselves.

Yeah, no, it's important.

Yeah, no, it's important.

And do you feel like age played a factor in that too, where you said you got to the point where you're like, I just don't give up anymore.

And do you feel like age played a factor in that too, where you said you got to the point where you're like, I just don't give up anymore.

Do you feel like age was part of that.

Do you feel like age was part of that.

Age was part of it, for sure, Sickness was part of it for sure. And honestly, the support.

Age was part of it, for sure, Sickness was part of it for sure. And honestly, the support.

Of the government.

Of the government.

Like, in the back of my head I knew I was like, if this is ever legal, then I'm okay. You know, so weird.

Like, in the back of my head I knew I was like, if this is ever legal, then I'm okay. You know, so weird.

It's specifically referring to gay marriage being legalized.

It's specifically referring to gay marriage being legalized.

Yes, so yeah, oh yeah, it's always legal to be gay.

Yes, so yeah, oh yeah, it's always legal to be gay.

I mean right everywhere. Yeah, it's scary. I've y all talked about the story of how you two met, because we we've hinted that it was around the year twenty fifteen.

I mean right everywhere. Yeah, it's scary. I've y all talked about the story of how you two met, because we we've hinted that it was around the year twenty fifteen.

So we met, and yeah, we did.

So we met, and yeah, we did.

We met in the.

We met in the.

Middle of twenty fifteen, and we met at a karaoke night in West Hollywood that Raven was hosting, and we basically like hit it off, and she was like, great, I'd love to see you again, but I'm moving to New York next week, so come to my goodbye my house, Like she was staring a house party, goodbye house party, and I was like.

Middle of twenty fifteen, and we met at a karaoke night in West Hollywood that Raven was hosting, and we basically like hit it off, and she was like, great, I'd love to see you again, but I'm moving to New York next week, so come to my goodbye my house, Like she was staring a house party, goodbye house party, and I was like.

Okay, cool. It was like a total whirlwind.

Okay, cool. It was like a total whirlwind.

And we had a solo date the Friday before her house party, which was on a Saturday, and we hung out like way late into the night.

And we had a solo date the Friday before her house party, which was on a Saturday, and we hung out like way late into the night.

We just talked and talked and talked.

We just talked and talked and talked.

We went to our house party, and then she came back to my place on Sunday after she had recovered from the craziness the debauchery of the house party with me until she left to go to New York to do the view and bought me a plane ticket to come see her in New York And I never left until she broke with me.

We went to our house party, and then she came back to my place on Sunday after she had recovered from the craziness the debauchery of the house party with me until she left to go to New York to do the view and bought me a plane ticket to come see her in New York And I never left until she broke with me.

How long was that was that? So that was like a year? Right?

How long was that was that? So that was like a year? Right?

That was basically a little under a year.

That was basically a little under a year.

Okay.

Okay.

You know, every beautiful love story goes through a breakup and then a coming back together.

You know, every beautiful love story goes through a breakup and then a coming back together.

So I'm here for.

So I'm here for.

That happened to Tanya too.

That happened to Tanya too.

Yeah, yeah, really, I mean it's sometimes like we actually say that we're super grateful for those years because our three or so years apart, we both grew and learned and had new perspective on what we had found in each other, and it was it was needed.

Yeah, yeah, really, I mean it's sometimes like we actually say that we're super grateful for those years because our three or so years apart, we both grew and learned and had new perspective on what we had found in each other, and it was it was needed.

And so how did you ultimately get back together?

And so how did you ultimately get back together?

I well, during COVID, I separated from somebody that I was talking to. I purged the house. I had four one night, hundred junk dump trucks come to my house and cleaned out the entire house.

I well, during COVID, I separated from somebody that I was talking to. I purged the house. I had four one night, hundred junk dump trucks come to my house and cleaned out the entire house.

Great feeling.

Great feeling.

It was fantastic.

It was fantastic.

I think I'm the only person in the world who loved lockdown like I thrived. And well, no, my wife did too. And during that time I called her and I text, called, text whatever, and I was like, you were right, I have issues and we can be friends now. And then she kept she stayed in my pocket as I cleaned the house, and then, like.

I think I'm the only person in the world who loved lockdown like I thrived. And well, no, my wife did too. And during that time I called her and I text, called, text whatever, and I was like, you were right, I have issues and we can be friends now. And then she kept she stayed in my pocket as I cleaned the house, and then, like.

She means, she kept me on FaceTime.

She means, she kept me on FaceTime.

She'd call me at like six thirty in the morning, and mind you, it's COVID, it's I'm you.

She'd call me at like six thirty in the morning, and mind you, it's COVID, it's I'm you.

I got none to do.

I got none to do.

I'm like trying to.

I'm like trying to.

Sleep at least until eight, But like six thirty in the morning, I'd see her and then I'd get, of course, butterflies and so excited.

Sleep at least until eight, But like six thirty in the morning, I'd see her and then I'd get, of course, butterflies and so excited.

I'd opened the phone and then she's.

I'd opened the phone and then she's.

Like, Hi, oh my god, Okay, wait, where do you think I should put this person. Where do you think I should do this? Because she's reorganizing everything. And then she would just put me in her pocket and proceed to clean her house and do things. So I'd just hear the shuffles and see a black screen and occasionally like up her nose and it was great.

Like, Hi, oh my god, Okay, wait, where do you think I should put this person. Where do you think I should do this? Because she's reorganizing everything. And then she would just put me in her pocket and proceed to clean her house and do things. So I'd just hear the shuffles and see a black screen and occasionally like up her nose and it was great.

And so then she proceeded to make me a package, a COVID package. And that was the moment I was like, m mine.

And so then she proceeded to make me a package, a COVID package. And that was the moment I was like, m mine.

I mean, I don't know how much time we have, but you guys, that package I had it caused me so much stress. I was like, this thing needs to be perfect. I baked all of these cookies. I made her lemon curd, I made I made her lemon curd, I made barbecue sauce. I made a sticky, ooey, gooey buttercake, all her favorites, deserts right, and I send it out. I pay like it's cope. Remember how crazy the mail was? Yeah, so shipping is already going to be expensive for something overnight. And I also should mention that I had gone up to Washington to my mom. I'd left LA and I sund the package it gets lost. They're like, it's going to be three days now, everything's going to rot. I know, interscept the package with the ups I have then to make a whole new one.

I mean, I don't know how much time we have, but you guys, that package I had it caused me so much stress. I was like, this thing needs to be perfect. I baked all of these cookies. I made her lemon curd, I made I made her lemon curd, I made barbecue sauce. I made a sticky, ooey, gooey buttercake, all her favorites, deserts right, and I send it out. I pay like it's cope. Remember how crazy the mail was? Yeah, so shipping is already going to be expensive for something overnight. And I also should mention that I had gone up to Washington to my mom. I'd left LA and I sund the package it gets lost. They're like, it's going to be three days now, everything's going to rot. I know, interscept the package with the ups I have then to make a whole new one.

It was blood, sweat and tears.

It was blood, sweat and tears.

I got that package on Mary, I got that package. I'm like, oh, let me just let me just lock this down, let me get this lemon curd.

I got that package on Mary, I got that package. I'm like, oh, let me just let me just lock this down, let me get this lemon curd.

Lid.

Lid.

But did it symbolize something for you? Just like the fact that she paid attention to like your favorite things and put so much time and effort and energy into like making that.

But did it symbolize something for you? Just like the fact that she paid attention to like your favorite things and put so much time and effort and energy into like making that.

Oh, the way you say it is how I should say it right, Like that's the perfect sentthing. I should say it just like that. However, I'm going to say it how I'm going to say it.

Oh, the way you say it is how I should say it right, Like that's the perfect sentthing. I should say it just like that. However, I'm going to say it how I'm going to say it.

That was bad.

That was bad.

And I wanted more of it for the rest of my life. She knew that I liked food mud belief. But even when we were dating back in twenty fifteen, she used to make these like this ziletus. She used to make these amazing prenatal vitamin bars because I wanted to grow my hair out and grow my nails. She was like, I know, I'm going to help you grow your nails in hair. So she put these beautiful, amazing tasting granola bars and with vitamins in it, and I would eat it on the way to the view. And so she was always an amazing chef and we really connect on food a lot, and I was just like, none of my other partners ever fed my belly, and you know, the belly is the second brain.

And I wanted more of it for the rest of my life. She knew that I liked food mud belief. But even when we were dating back in twenty fifteen, she used to make these like this ziletus. She used to make these amazing prenatal vitamin bars because I wanted to grow my hair out and grow my nails. She was like, I know, I'm going to help you grow your nails in hair. So she put these beautiful, amazing tasting granola bars and with vitamins in it, and I would eat it on the way to the view. And so she was always an amazing chef and we really connect on food a lot, and I was just like, none of my other partners ever fed my belly, and you know, the belly is the second brain.

The best thing to me though about those bars is I was customizing them to Ravens nutritional wants at the time. But then of course she loves to share, so we had everyone at the view eating pre natals in granola bars not knowing. So like I'd have these like grip men come up to me and they're like, oh, Maranda, that bar. So I'm like, you're gonna have better hair. You're like, I'm just laughing to my never had. My wife was like, you're literally eating vagina jue.

The best thing to me though about those bars is I was customizing them to Ravens nutritional wants at the time. But then of course she loves to share, so we had everyone at the view eating pre natals in granola bars not knowing. So like I'd have these like grip men come up to me and they're like, oh, Maranda, that bar. So I'm like, you're gonna have better hair. You're like, I'm just laughing to my never had. My wife was like, you're literally eating vagina jue.

Like you're eating vagina juice.

Like you're eating vagina juice.

How do you know how to do that? Like is that something that you studied or what?

How do you know how to do that? Like is that something that you studied or what?

She's a little white witch. No, I did not.

She's a little white witch. No, I did not.

I mean my study, yes, I guess I did.

I mean my study, yes, I guess I did.

Kind of.

Kind of.

It was called staying home from school because I had an air quote stomach ache and watching Ricky Lake, Jenny Jones and then Food Network until about seven thirty PM. So that was my I went to the school Food Network. Yeah, and I also I think that as a person who grew up with a lot of anxiety and from such a young age, I was anxious, I couldn't I didn't have access to like drugs or alcohol at that point. I think that would have been my coping mechanism if I was older. Maybe, I don't know, but that was a way for me to channel that energy. So being and using my hands from a young age, I loved baking.

It was called staying home from school because I had an air quote stomach ache and watching Ricky Lake, Jenny Jones and then Food Network until about seven thirty PM. So that was my I went to the school Food Network. Yeah, and I also I think that as a person who grew up with a lot of anxiety and from such a young age, I was anxious, I couldn't I didn't have access to like drugs or alcohol at that point. I think that would have been my coping mechanism if I was older. Maybe, I don't know, but that was a way for me to channel that energy. So being and using my hands from a young age, I loved baking.

And I reaped the benefit.

And I reaped the benefit.

And yeah, yeah, and now I just now I love nutrition too, so I like PA too, and it's fun.

And yeah, yeah, and now I just now I love nutrition too, so I like PA too, and it's fun.

That's would you ever want to start your own brand, like like the bars?

That's would you ever want to start your own brand, like like the bars?

It's interesting because I've actually I just sent my dad.

It's interesting because I've actually I just sent my dad.

Oh, she makes these amazing peanut butter bark things and these madelines because I'm Keto slashical carb and she has to like when she makes stuff that has did not have a whole bunch of sugar in it, otherwise I'll get the Beaties and literally literally the best food you'll ever put in.

Oh, she makes these amazing peanut butter bark things and these madelines because I'm Keto slashical carb and she has to like when she makes stuff that has did not have a whole bunch of sugar in it, otherwise I'll get the Beaties and literally literally the best food you'll ever put in.

But I spent my dad a care package kind of of those things that Raven just mentioned, and he texted me yesterday and he was like, these are so good, you could sell them. And people say that, and Raven said that back in twenty yeh.

But I spent my dad a care package kind of of those things that Raven just mentioned, and he texted me yesterday and he was like, these are so good, you could sell them. And people say that, and Raven said that back in twenty yeh.

But I don't lie. I don't just blow smoke, you know what.

But I don't lie. I don't just blow smoke, you know what.

But here, here's the deal.

But here, here's the deal.

Would I do it? I don't know when I do it.

Would I do it? I don't know when I do it.

When I was working as a doula, part of me thought about trying to get into lactation cookies because that's the real thing. Oh yeah, I would totally say.

When I was working as a doula, part of me thought about trying to get into lactation cookies because that's the real thing. Oh yeah, I would totally say.

Let me answer your question. Yes, with this podcast, pops all and my wife and I are in our fifties, which is very soon because I'm thirty seven.

Let me answer your question. Yes, with this podcast, pops all and my wife and I are in our fifties, which is very soon because I'm thirty seven.

That's not very soon, Raven, don't get a stressed.

That's not very soon, Raven, don't get a stressed.

Dollars twenty years, you guys can look forward to lacking I mean prena.

Dollars twenty years, you guys can look forward to lacking I mean prena.

Yeah, lactating bars, and that's the trend now people having babies at seventies, so you might as well.

Yeah, lactating bars, and that's the trend now people having babies at seventies, so you might as well.

Yeah, but you know they do have like I don't know if you've heard of Nowhere Bakery, but she just does it out of her house and you like order them on her Instagram and then pick them up from it's like Nowhere Bakery because I think it's like her house.

Yeah, but you know they do have like I don't know if you've heard of Nowhere Bakery, but she just does it out of her house and you like order them on her Instagram and then pick them up from it's like Nowhere Bakery because I think it's like her house.

You pick them up from that's spoil.

You pick them up from that's spoil.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The problem is is when she does it, I'm gonna want to eat it. So it's like do I want to share or does she just have to make a bigger back so I can make sure I taste everything and on bigger batches like.

The problem is is when she does it, I'm gonna want to eat it. So it's like do I want to share or does she just have to make a bigger back so I can make sure I taste everything and on bigger batches like.

I would do that, But also like how many cookies do I have to sell before or bars before I start seeing a return on my work time?

I would do that, But also like how many cookies do I have to sell before or bars before I start seeing a return on my work time?

This is well, see, this will be a passion project to start and then with the podcast. If you did it while the podcast is happening, it's like free publicity. Every time you're talking about baking a new batch.

This is well, see, this will be a passion project to start and then with the podcast. If you did it while the podcast is happening, it's like free publicity. Every time you're talking about baking a new batch.

Your baking would be my painting.

Your baking would be my painting.

Hey, yeah, Raven, I was gonna ask you about that.

Hey, yeah, Raven, I was gonna ask you about that.

I wasn't doing that, as I wasn't doing that, as you don't have to talk about it.

I wasn't doing that, as I wasn't doing that, as you don't have to talk about it.

Was that something because I just wanted because Tanya's boyfriend is a lawyer, but he his passion is painting, and I saw your TikTok about that, so I thought that was a good connector to talk about because I imagine in the industry and what being so young when you started, there has to be something that is an outlet, like for Miranda, yours has been for your anxiety? It was baking and creating nutritional foods. Is that something that you found recently or has that always been something you loved.

Was that something because I just wanted because Tanya's boyfriend is a lawyer, but he his passion is painting, and I saw your TikTok about that, so I thought that was a good connector to talk about because I imagine in the industry and what being so young when you started, there has to be something that is an outlet, like for Miranda, yours has been for your anxiety? It was baking and creating nutritional foods. Is that something that you found recently or has that always been something you loved.

So I was on a show called Hang with Mister Cooper in nineteen ninety seven and I would get stressed out. I would get fever blisters, I would just wow really bad. So my mom took me to painting schools on the weekends and I would doodle all over my script. I would go to class. He still has one of my first pastel pieces at home. It was a clown. And from that moment on, anytime I got stressed or needed to zone out, I always drew. And when I was doing that, so Raven I was also getting stressed out. And I actually did pottery during that time. So when I finished doing my six month stin on Broadway and on Sister Act, I was telling my dresser. I was like, I am so over the industry. You couldn't pay me a zillion dollars to do one more piece of work. And she was like, well, what are you going to do? Because you know what are you gonna do? And I was like, I'm I'm gonna paint I'm gonna go to school. So I went to college and I got my AA and then Whoopi Goldberg called me and asked me to be on the ve and I was like, oh, I guess that.

So I was on a show called Hang with Mister Cooper in nineteen ninety seven and I would get stressed out. I would get fever blisters, I would just wow really bad. So my mom took me to painting schools on the weekends and I would doodle all over my script. I would go to class. He still has one of my first pastel pieces at home. It was a clown. And from that moment on, anytime I got stressed or needed to zone out, I always drew. And when I was doing that, so Raven I was also getting stressed out. And I actually did pottery during that time. So when I finished doing my six month stin on Broadway and on Sister Act, I was telling my dresser. I was like, I am so over the industry. You couldn't pay me a zillion dollars to do one more piece of work. And she was like, well, what are you going to do? Because you know what are you gonna do? And I was like, I'm I'm gonna paint I'm gonna go to school. So I went to college and I got my AA and then Whoopi Goldberg called me and asked me to be on the ve and I was like, oh, I guess that.

Is I'm back are.

Is I'm back are.

But even during that time, always painting, And now that there's so much going on at home in the sense of starting the podcast, creating our production company, and all the other work we're doing, I've set up the guest room as my art space, and you know, we joke about it. She's like, are we married. I'm like, yeah, but I'm just gonna be in this art room for a little while.

But even during that time, always painting, And now that there's so much going on at home in the sense of starting the podcast, creating our production company, and all the other work we're doing, I've set up the guest room as my art space, and you know, we joke about it. She's like, are we married. I'm like, yeah, but I'm just gonna be in this art room for a little while.

I've seen her in three days. She's this morning for us to do interviews.

I've seen her in three days. She's this morning for us to do interviews.

Really it's not a full exaggeration, but it's like a baby exaggeration, but it's not full.

Really it's not a full exaggeration, but it's like a baby exaggeration, but it's not full.

It's like pretty true. It's kind of close.

It's like pretty true. It's kind of close.

It's like.

It's like.

Two person to do. That's so nice.

Two person to do. That's so nice.

What like a beautiful way to be able to express yourself.

What like a beautiful way to be able to express yourself.

It's so funny because it is. It is so beautiful and it's so freeing and no one can tell me what to do, except for when my wife needs a present for her dad, and then she tells me exactly what she wants me to like.

It's so funny because it is. It is so beautiful and it's so freeing and no one can tell me what to do, except for when my wife needs a present for her dad, and then she tells me exactly what she wants me to like.

That's not how this commissioning no exactly an official name.

That's not how this commissioning no exactly an official name.

For this is not how I work.

For this is not how I work.

I do not like to get told what to paint.

I do not like to get told what to paint.

That.

That.

I was like, can I just have a landscape?

I was like, can I just have a landscape?

She comes back with like an abstract with blocks of color and like a swiggle in the center, and I was like, what am I looking at?

She comes back with like an abstract with blocks of color and like a swiggle in the center, and I was like, what am I looking at?

And she's like, you can't tell me what to do.

And she's like, you can't tell me what to do.

And then she proceeds to like I want this, this, this, this, and I'm like, okay, fine, So I just.

And then she proceeds to like I want this, this, this, this, and I'm like, okay, fine, So I just.

Wanted the landscape with some golfers and I get like these like hot pink blocks of color that look like modern monochrome bubbles.

Wanted the landscape with some golfers and I get like these like hot pink blocks of color that look like modern monochrome bubbles.

I don't even know you guys remember the movie Toy.

I don't even know you guys remember the movie Toy.

I think it was called Toy.

I think it was called Toy.

With Dory, the one with Robert and.

With Dory, the one with Robert and.

I'm sorry with Robin Williams. Yeah, like that landscape belonged in that movie. Okay, it was like modern.

I'm sorry with Robin Williams. Yeah, like that landscape belonged in that movie. Okay, it was like modern.

It wasn't a landscape, babes, it was a painting and belong anywhere, but landscapes.

It wasn't a landscape, babes, it was a painting and belong anywhere, but landscapes.

It's my happy I want.

It's my happy I want.

When I saw your TikTok it, it was like a variety. I was thinking, what is going on in her brain where this is what comes out onto the paper because it's beautiful. But it wasn't like oh it all looks the same or it's watercolor. It's like you have there's a lot going on and it's all just like amazing.

When I saw your TikTok it, it was like a variety. I was thinking, what is going on in her brain where this is what comes out onto the paper because it's beautiful. But it wasn't like oh it all looks the same or it's watercolor. It's like you have there's a lot going on and it's all just like amazing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

One of the pieces, one of the pieces that my wife actually likes is hanging in Whoope's house.

One of the pieces, one of the pieces that my wife actually likes is hanging in Whoope's house.

Wow, God, Raven.

Wow, God, Raven.

Every painting that Raven has made that I love and feel some connection to, she gives away, Like she just gave a piece to Demi Levado and I was like, wait, you're giving that to Demi? What She's like Yeah, And I was like, oh, sit in the house.

Every painting that Raven has made that I love and feel some connection to, she gives away, Like she just gave a piece to Demi Levado and I was like, wait, you're giving that to Demi? What She's like Yeah, And I was like, oh, sit in the house.

She didn't say that when it was in the house.

She didn't say that when it was in the house.

Yeah, why don't you say anything in the house.

Yeah, why don't you say anything in the house.

Because I you guys, So every time of hers that's like hanging, I have to talk about it or she's gonna give it every day. That is beautiful.

Because I you guys, So every time of hers that's like hanging, I have to talk about it or she's gonna give it every day. That is beautiful.

This dynamic is so funny because so my girlfriend's a musician too, and she's in the industry, so like this dynamic feels so familiar to me of her having her things and me having to be like, wow, let's talk about it.

This dynamic is so funny because so my girlfriend's a musician too, and she's in the industry, so like this dynamic feels so familiar to me of her having her things and me having to be like, wow, let's talk about it.

I need to I need what is it?

I need to I need what is it?

I need validation validation too.

I need validation validation too.

I think that's the only thing I need validation.

I think that's the only thing I need validation.

Ay, that's true.

Ay, that's true.

I don't need validation anywhere else. It's so weird, but I've been so self aware, oh, self aware, self assured self, like I can do myself. Okay, I can do it self sufficient, deficient, thank you see dictionary that the I'm just realizing this as we speak, that the only thing I need validation and is my painting. I come to you all the time like look what I did.

I don't need validation anywhere else. It's so weird, but I've been so self aware, oh, self aware, self assured self, like I can do myself. Okay, I can do it self sufficient, deficient, thank you see dictionary that the I'm just realizing this as we speak, that the only thing I need validation and is my painting. I come to you all the time like look what I did.

Yes, I knew that.

Yes, I knew that.

I knew that, and I watch it and I also do it with strangers, which is like Raven is never like, hey, did you see this episode of Raven's Home, And she's like a sting I made, sir. I know, I don't know you, but look, and especially if it's another art artist, then you get like really.

I knew that, and I watch it and I also do it with strangers, which is like Raven is never like, hey, did you see this episode of Raven's Home, And she's like a sting I made, sir. I know, I don't know you, but look, and especially if it's another art artist, then you get like really.

Struck I do. She's just like.

Struck I do. She's just like.

She's like, oh, I'm good, and then she like runs home and has to get into her room immediately and start creating more.

She's like, oh, I'm good, and then she like runs home and has to get into her room immediately and start creating more.

It's true.

It's true.

Yeah, you're human too.

Yeah, you're human too.

Do y'all spend like all your time together? What do you say outside of work out of the house.

Do y'all spend like all your time together? What do you say outside of work out of the house.

I'm gonna let her answer that.

I'm gonna let her answer that.

No, no, we don't.

No, no, we don't.

Falsetto feels like it's a yes.

Falsetto feels like it's a yes.

We don't.

We don't.

We really don't. I think that why anymore anymore, I guess. I mean I was trying to say that Raven went to the club the other weekend.

We really don't. I think that why anymore anymore, I guess. I mean I was trying to say that Raven went to the club the other weekend.

I did not attend. There are definitely things I got a facial you did not attend. At the beginning of.

I did not attend. There are definitely things I got a facial you did not attend. At the beginning of.

Our relationship, we did everything together. There was definitely a COVID slash even after COVID connection. And then as we continue to grow individually, I think the need for up underneath each other's armpits kind of subsided, and the fact that we're working together fills certain voids too, So we are now more comfortable doing things on our own when like at the beginning of the relationship is like I gotta go to seven eleven, when you go with me, I gotta go to the bathroom, can hold me here? Like, we don't do that anymore. And now I was like, get the way, but I look so much.

Our relationship, we did everything together. There was definitely a COVID slash even after COVID connection. And then as we continue to grow individually, I think the need for up underneath each other's armpits kind of subsided, and the fact that we're working together fills certain voids too, So we are now more comfortable doing things on our own when like at the beginning of the relationship is like I gotta go to seven eleven, when you go with me, I gotta go to the bathroom, can hold me here? Like, we don't do that anymore. And now I was like, get the way, but I look so much.

No judgment over here.

No judgment over here.

No, we're both very attached.

No, we're both very attached.

It's it's not code dependent. It's really not codependent. It's attacked you. It's codependent. Oh, it's getting dark.

It's it's not code dependent. It's really not codependent. It's attacked you. It's codependent. Oh, it's getting dark.

I think there's a healthy codependence, and I think that we have like there's a healthy like I don't want you to watch that show without me, because you.

I think there's a healthy codependence, and I think that we have like there's a healthy like I don't want you to watch that show without me, because you.

Know what I mean.

Know what I mean.

But at the same time, I need like thirty minutes to myself right now without you, and then let me miss you a little bit slash. You know. At the beginning of our relationship, my wife was like, you're never going on vacation without me.

But at the same time, I need like thirty minutes to myself right now without you, and then let me miss you a little bit slash. You know. At the beginning of our relationship, my wife was like, you're never going on vacation without me.

Never.

Never.

I was like, okay, I'm sorry, that's not how that happened. That what happened.

I was like, okay, I'm sorry, that's not how that happened. That what happened.

Her dream vacation would be her going alone. And I was like, I'm sorry, what and she was like, yeah, I think it'd be really cool if you and I took separate vacations. And I was like, and I'm going to tell you right now, I still disagree with that. I can understand somebody saying like I want to go solo, but don't make me go on vacation solo.

Her dream vacation would be her going alone. And I was like, I'm sorry, what and she was like, yeah, I think it'd be really cool if you and I took separate vacations. And I was like, and I'm going to tell you right now, I still disagree with that. I can understand somebody saying like I want to go solo, but don't make me go on vacation solo.

Yeah, I say, where you want to.

Yeah, I say, where you want to.

But I was bringing that up because I had to go to Atlanta for family and she was like, go. I was like, I'm going with that. She's like, we got this, and I was like, okay.

But I was bringing that up because I had to go to Atlanta for family and she was like, go. I was like, I'm going with that. She's like, we got this, and I was like, okay.

That's also the thing that's so funny is When I said to her that I didn't want to go, she goes, don't make me go alone. Don't make me And so this is what I'm saying, and like this setting is always.

That's also the thing that's so funny is When I said to her that I didn't want to go, she goes, don't make me go alone. Don't make me And so this is what I'm saying, and like this setting is always.

Like yeah, no, Childrel.

Like yeah, no, Childrel.

I have this codependent wife who walk to the bathroom with me and sit there and want no I'm the bathroom and in our real life, I'm like, I'm going to go to the market.

I have this codependent wife who walk to the bathroom with me and sit there and want no I'm the bathroom and in our real life, I'm like, I'm going to go to the market.

She's like, do you need me to come?

She's like, do you need me to come?

Writing non finding.

Writing non finding.

Raven, when is your birthday?

Raven, when is your birthday?

I'm a Sagittarius.

I'm a Sagittarius.

Okay, I'm seeing so many similars. Yeah, I feel like you're like seeing your eye. I'm like dying laughing because you are literally Haleyan like I am. And it's the there is something about is it? Hailey aries though?

Okay, I'm seeing so many similars. Yeah, I feel like you're like seeing your eye. I'm like dying laughing because you are literally Haleyan like I am. And it's the there is something about is it? Hailey aries though?

Yeah yeah yeah.

Yeah yeah yeah.

But so when we went to we just went on a vacation together and she just got off tour and she was like, I just need to decompress. And I was like, if you need to go alone, like I totally understand, even if you need to go for a few days and just like decompressed by yourself. And she was like, you don't want to go, And I was like, well, you kind of made it seem like that was what you really needed. So I was just giving you that space if you needed it, and she was like, no, I want to go with you. And it was like this whole thing of her acting like too cool, nonchalant, I can go by myself. I need a loone time. But then when I offered it, you.

But so when we went to we just went on a vacation together and she just got off tour and she was like, I just need to decompress. And I was like, if you need to go alone, like I totally understand, even if you need to go for a few days and just like decompressed by yourself. And she was like, you don't want to go, And I was like, well, you kind of made it seem like that was what you really needed. So I was just giving you that space if you needed it, and she was like, no, I want to go with you. And it was like this whole thing of her acting like too cool, nonchalant, I can go by myself. I need a loone time. But then when I offered it, you.

Also being like, oh, you need to go decompressed, like you were playing a game too.

Also being like, oh, you need to go decompressed, like you were playing a game too.

I know you.

I know you.

I heard I agree with you.

I heard I agree with you.

That he came back. Yes, we all we went together the whole trip and it was great. I know you'm a scorpio. Yeah.

That he came back. Yes, we all we went together the whole trip and it was great. I know you'm a scorpio. Yeah.

I mean, look, I will say I have had relationship trauma, as probably most of us had, and that's where Raven is a much more what's it called, like I have insecure attachment, she has an avoidant attachment. So as an insecure attached person, in the early days of our relationship, I.

I mean, look, I will say I have had relationship trauma, as probably most of us had, and that's where Raven is a much more what's it called, like I have insecure attachment, she has an avoidant attachment. So as an insecure attached person, in the early days of our relationship, I.

Was very scared. It is actually fear based. It was fear motivated.

Was very scared. It is actually fear based. It was fear motivated.

It's not like I wanted to go everywhere she was going with her all the time. It was that my brain was telling me that if I didn't, something bad would happen, and who knew what that would be.

It's not like I wanted to go everywhere she was going with her all the time. It was that my brain was telling me that if I didn't, something bad would happen, and who knew what that would be.

Go ahead, you reverse that because because I'm also insecurely attached.

Go ahead, you reverse that because because I'm also insecurely attached.

Did you find like a turning point or like when did that flip for you?

Did you find like a turning point or like when did that flip for you?

Well, I have to say a lot of it is my partner, like what Raven did for me, which I never had, And I believe my insecure attachment started in my childhood home. I never got to learn the lesson that, like the baby bird can leave the nest and come back to the nest and everything is still there and safe and secure. I didn't feel that way. So in the first two years of our marriage, really Raven took a lot of time and patience to let.

Well, I have to say a lot of it is my partner, like what Raven did for me, which I never had, And I believe my insecure attachment started in my childhood home. I never got to learn the lesson that, like the baby bird can leave the nest and come back to the nest and everything is still there and safe and secure. I didn't feel that way. So in the first two years of our marriage, really Raven took a lot of time and patience to let.

Me know that I was safe here.

Me know that I was safe here.

And because I also recognized that quickly, I understood that I had to do my work too. So if Raven's going to like say, hey, you're safe, and how I'm showing you you're safe is I'm telling you where I am when I go there, I'm texting you when I say. She was being consistent and reliable and she was doing what she said, which then gave me confidence in our relationship and trust to where I could then go, Okay, I'm going to go out here by myself and do this, or she's good, I'm going to say, you go there, and I'll stay here, and I'm going to trust that even if I don't hear from her that everything's fine.

And because I also recognized that quickly, I understood that I had to do my work too. So if Raven's going to like say, hey, you're safe, and how I'm showing you you're safe is I'm telling you where I am when I go there, I'm texting you when I say. She was being consistent and reliable and she was doing what she said, which then gave me confidence in our relationship and trust to where I could then go, Okay, I'm going to go out here by myself and do this, or she's good, I'm going to say, you go there, and I'll stay here, and I'm going to trust that even if I don't hear from her that everything's fine.

And I worked on myself, and I.

And I worked on myself, and I.

Also knew that the things that were motivating my inscure attachment were not healthy and I didn't want to feel that way because I feel so victim to those thoughts and I don't like that. I didn't like that. So it was really just working on myself, but also having a partner who understood it and was willing to not personalize it. That's where I think couples end up like fighting over these things, and it's really hard when it's not like something you're trying to do. Yeah, you're a product of this scenario that kind of turned you into that.

Also knew that the things that were motivating my inscure attachment were not healthy and I didn't want to feel that way because I feel so victim to those thoughts and I don't like that. I didn't like that. So it was really just working on myself, but also having a partner who understood it and was willing to not personalize it. That's where I think couples end up like fighting over these things, and it's really hard when it's not like something you're trying to do. Yeah, you're a product of this scenario that kind of turned you into that.

Yeah, I think it's it's such a it has to be a healthy balance of your partner meeting you and also you being able, like I've had to work on my own things like can't rely on Haley to fix certain things that she didn't that aren't about even her, you know exactly. So I think it's like giving both of you credit for being able to get over that, cause it's it's not easy.

Yeah, I think it's it's such a it has to be a healthy balance of your partner meeting you and also you being able, like I've had to work on my own things like can't rely on Haley to fix certain things that she didn't that aren't about even her, you know exactly. So I think it's like giving both of you credit for being able to get over that, cause it's it's not easy.

It's not easy at all. It's not easy at all, and I think just being able to say that and recognize that we both have it right.

It's not easy at all. It's not easy at all, and I think just being able to say that and recognize that we both have it right.

So it's like.

So it's like.

Mine shows up as an insecure attachment. Her shows up as an avoidant. She is having to do work and feel certain levels of security within me that to come have a conversation.

Mine shows up as an insecure attachment. Her shows up as an avoidant. She is having to do work and feel certain levels of security within me that to come have a conversation.

Like, that's a trust thing right there.

Like, that's a trust thing right there.

So the exhibiting of the behavior is different, but it's still rooted in the same thing.

So the exhibiting of the behavior is different, but it's still rooted in the same thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a really good point before we let y'all go, because I know y'all have a busy day. We this podcast, Scrubbing In was kind of based off of our love for Gray's Anatomy and I know that you got married in a private ceremony on Debbie Allen's in her backyard. Is that right, front yard? Her front yard? Oh, it's nice. She has a big enough front yard.