You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast from News Talks at Me.

You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast from News Talks at Me.

For the first time ever, Lucy Lawless has made the shift from actor to director in a new documentary about another key we icon of the big screen, Margaret Moth. Margaret was a character, to say the least, a bit of an unconventional war correspondent who thrived in her decades filming in war zones around the world. The documentary is called Never look Away, For Better or for Worse.

For the first time ever, Lucy Lawless has made the shift from actor to director in a new documentary about another key we icon of the big screen, Margaret Moth. Margaret was a character, to say the least, a bit of an unconventional war correspondent who thrived in her decades filming in war zones around the world. The documentary is called Never look Away, For Better or for Worse.

War is an amazing field.

War is an amazing field.

But didn't seem to feel the same way.

But didn't seem to feel the same way.

She was the first camera woman for television New Zealand.

She was the first camera woman for television New Zealand.

She looked so rock and roll twenty four to seven.

She looked so rock and roll twenty four to seven.

A female cameraman in a male dominated world. That definitely gave her a charge. Marvin never made anything about being a female. She just did it. Look at me, here's the camera. This is what I do.

A female cameraman in a male dominated world. That definitely gave her a charge. Marvin never made anything about being a female. She just did it. Look at me, here's the camera. This is what I do.

Direct de Lucy Lawless is with us this morning. Killed a good morning Jack. I know this is a question that you answer over the course of the documentary, but I'm hoping you can give us a bit of a snapshot. Who is Margaret Moth.

Direct de Lucy Lawless is with us this morning. Killed a good morning Jack. I know this is a question that you answer over the course of the documentary, but I'm hoping you can give us a bit of a snapshot. Who is Margaret Moth.

Margaret Moth was a kick ass woman from New Zealand who ran off and became a CNN camera person at the at the start of twenty four to seven news and found her place in the world. Unfortunately, the world that she chose meant that she was on the receiving end of a sniper's bullet in Sarajevo and got her face blown off and then things get really crazy. So she did not die.

Margaret Moth was a kick ass woman from New Zealand who ran off and became a CNN camera person at the at the start of twenty four to seven news and found her place in the world. Unfortunately, the world that she chose meant that she was on the receiving end of a sniper's bullet in Sarajevo and got her face blown off and then things get really crazy. So she did not die.

No, she didn't die. And I mean she is I mean, she's someone I can say that's working in the news business. You know, she is a legend of an absolute bona fide, top of the pyramid legend in New Zealand news. But obviously you have worked over the years in different parts of television, so how did you come across her story?

No, she didn't die. And I mean she is I mean, she's someone I can say that's working in the news business. You know, she is a legend of an absolute bona fide, top of the pyramid legend in New Zealand news. But obviously you have worked over the years in different parts of television, so how did you come across her story?

While I was approached by her best friend, Joe Duran, who's in the film, and he said, hey, do you want to make a film about my friend Margaret Moth? And I was so swept up in this crazy sensation of this woman who many years before in nineteen ninety two when she was shot by that bullet in sarajeva The news report was so captivating that everything that I know about Margaret Moth had to have happened in that report in that week when they were not sure whether she was going to survive or not. I hadn't thought about her since, but in that moment that I received the email, I wrote back immediately, I mean within ninety seconds, making all these crazy promises which I had no business doing. So I will find the money, I will find the producers. Story has to be told. And I didn't realize that what I was now participating in was actually bringing Margaret home in a way, because she had left New Zealand under a cloud of mystery, which is really really fascinating, but I couldn't prove it, so I couldn't I couldn't use it in the documentary. But she never came back for many many years, till her mother was dying. Only once did she come back. Yeah, so I wanted to bring her home. I think that's New Zealanders know about her.

While I was approached by her best friend, Joe Duran, who's in the film, and he said, hey, do you want to make a film about my friend Margaret Moth? And I was so swept up in this crazy sensation of this woman who many years before in nineteen ninety two when she was shot by that bullet in sarajeva The news report was so captivating that everything that I know about Margaret Moth had to have happened in that report in that week when they were not sure whether she was going to survive or not. I hadn't thought about her since, but in that moment that I received the email, I wrote back immediately, I mean within ninety seconds, making all these crazy promises which I had no business doing. So I will find the money, I will find the producers. Story has to be told. And I didn't realize that what I was now participating in was actually bringing Margaret home in a way, because she had left New Zealand under a cloud of mystery, which is really really fascinating, but I couldn't prove it, so I couldn't I couldn't use it in the documentary. But she never came back for many many years, till her mother was dying. Only once did she come back. Yeah, so I wanted to bring her home. I think that's New Zealanders know about her.

I think it's such a nice way to think about it, bringing her home, because she was she was someone who she started her career in New Zealand working in TV news, but then kind of spread her wings and was clearly she was It was almost like, I mean, she's obviously a complex person It's almost like she was running from something a because she she sort of went to the most opposite to New Zealand like environments you could possibly imagine that we're talking about, yes, bag Dad Aganista Sutover during the siege, Like, these places are about as far from New Zealand as you can get in every sense, don't you think.

I think it's such a nice way to think about it, bringing her home, because she was she was someone who she started her career in New Zealand working in TV news, but then kind of spread her wings and was clearly she was It was almost like, I mean, she's obviously a complex person It's almost like she was running from something a because she she sort of went to the most opposite to New Zealand like environments you could possibly imagine that we're talking about, yes, bag Dad Aganista Sutover during the siege, Like, these places are about as far from New Zealand as you can get in every sense, don't you think.

Right. But in between there was eight or nine years of lying fallow in Texas, of all places, where she was basically taking drugs, hitting the punk scene and working her way through the news hierarchy there, you know, just trying to get a gig. She worked in a hospital, she did all these other jobs. She painted houses, did anything to keep alive before we found out that she was working for CNN.

Right. But in between there was eight or nine years of lying fallow in Texas, of all places, where she was basically taking drugs, hitting the punk scene and working her way through the news hierarchy there, you know, just trying to get a gig. She worked in a hospital, she did all these other jobs. She painted houses, did anything to keep alive before we found out that she was working for CNN.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She She had this amazing, amazing line that you shared in the film, in which she said that she always thought it was funny that people spend their lives saving for retirement, and she knew that she would never be financially wealthy in retirement, but that she would feel rich because of her experiences.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She She had this amazing, amazing line that you shared in the film, in which she said that she always thought it was funny that people spend their lives saving for retirement, and she knew that she would never be financially wealthy in retirement, but that she would feel rich because of her experiences.

Yes, she was hungry for experience and sensation. I think, Yeah, something in her childhood made her and you know what I felt that too, and maybe a lot of New Zealanders. Do you know, we come from a little, tiny, safe country, and she's always proud of New Zealand. At the bottom of the world, your eyes are big and your ears are open for everything and the rest of the world. You know, you're hungry to discover what else lies out there. That's why we go on this oe business traditionally, that's part of being a key. We've been raised in this lovely little jewel of the land at the bottom of the world.

Yes, she was hungry for experience and sensation. I think, Yeah, something in her childhood made her and you know what I felt that too, and maybe a lot of New Zealanders. Do you know, we come from a little, tiny, safe country, and she's always proud of New Zealand. At the bottom of the world, your eyes are big and your ears are open for everything and the rest of the world. You know, you're hungry to discover what else lies out there. That's why we go on this oe business traditionally, that's part of being a key. We've been raised in this lovely little jewel of the land at the bottom of the world.

So do you think that was the driving ambition for Margaret, that she just wanted to have lots of experiences and that's what ultimately led her to being in war zones? Or do you think there was you know, that there were other dimensions to you know, to whatever it was that led her to those parts of the world.

So do you think that was the driving ambition for Margaret, that she just wanted to have lots of experiences and that's what ultimately led her to being in war zones? Or do you think there was you know, that there were other dimensions to you know, to whatever it was that led her to those parts of the world.

Okay, well, what I'm going to say my inference is not what she would say, yeah, you know, because she would just say she was hungry for experience. She wanted to she had this insatiable curiosity, and that's true, that seems to be true. But I do think that she had experienced some amount of trauma in her childhood, that she had kind of had this vibration of chaos within her, you know, so to be in a chaotic environment like war was where she felt most comfortable because, in my opinion, it mirrored her in her life, you know, her in her hunger for extreme sensation.

Okay, well, what I'm going to say my inference is not what she would say, yeah, you know, because she would just say she was hungry for experience. She wanted to she had this insatiable curiosity, and that's true, that seems to be true. But I do think that she had experienced some amount of trauma in her childhood, that she had kind of had this vibration of chaos within her, you know, so to be in a chaotic environment like war was where she felt most comfortable because, in my opinion, it mirrored her in her life, you know, her in her hunger for extreme sensation.

Yeah, I think I think you did such a good job in telling her story because one thing that makes it really difficult is that when you are a camera person, by definition, you are behind the camera, which means that when you're trying to tell the story of her being in these different environments and these really kind of high streets experiences and traumatic experiences and war zones and stuff like, the pictures that you have is that she's taken rather than ones that she's necessarily participated in. So how did you kind of navigate that?

Yeah, I think I think you did such a good job in telling her story because one thing that makes it really difficult is that when you are a camera person, by definition, you are behind the camera, which means that when you're trying to tell the story of her being in these different environments and these really kind of high streets experiences and traumatic experiences and war zones and stuff like, the pictures that you have is that she's taken rather than ones that she's necessarily participated in. So how did you kind of navigate that?

Oh? That was so hard. It was extremely difficult to find images of Margaret. The ones that we had were either in her suitcase of treasures that she left to Joe or I was just got on got on the blower of New Zealand and talked to one friend who gave me the number for another friend. And then this fabulous man called Paul John said that school with Margaret, I think I've got some sixteen mil film of Margaret's staring straight down the barrel of the lens. We were doing this war whole esque project at art school. Would you like it? I said, yes please, So that footage we had digitized, and that footage starts and ends the movie. So I really thank mister Johns for that and the other bet the other bed. I found her working by doing research on this whole rible massacre in Lebanon, and I was watching looking on YouTube hours at the stuff and I wait a minute, back it up. Was that Margaret on the ground with her camera and there was evidence of Margaret in the back of other camera people's shots. So it's just by dumb luck and assiduity I found that.

Oh? That was so hard. It was extremely difficult to find images of Margaret. The ones that we had were either in her suitcase of treasures that she left to Joe or I was just got on got on the blower of New Zealand and talked to one friend who gave me the number for another friend. And then this fabulous man called Paul John said that school with Margaret, I think I've got some sixteen mil film of Margaret's staring straight down the barrel of the lens. We were doing this war whole esque project at art school. Would you like it? I said, yes please, So that footage we had digitized, and that footage starts and ends the movie. So I really thank mister Johns for that and the other bet the other bed. I found her working by doing research on this whole rible massacre in Lebanon, and I was watching looking on YouTube hours at the stuff and I wait a minute, back it up. Was that Margaret on the ground with her camera and there was evidence of Margaret in the back of other camera people's shots. So it's just by dumb luck and assiduity I found that.

So it's rare enough for New Zealand journalists to be, you know, working for CNN and in these kind of war zones during this period, But just how uncommon was it to have a female camera person in, you know, in the in these kind of places.

So it's rare enough for New Zealand journalists to be, you know, working for CNN and in these kind of war zones during this period, But just how uncommon was it to have a female camera person in, you know, in the in these kind of places.

Well, definitely there are standout even then. But I will say Margaret was part of a slew of female journalists and crew who were absorbed into this new form of news which was CNN. Right Ted Ted Turner was like, if they are qualified and willing to go, I'm going to end them. So a lot of women into the workforce at that time. As as I guess, war is always like that. It's always brings a lot of women into the workforce.

Well, definitely there are standout even then. But I will say Margaret was part of a slew of female journalists and crew who were absorbed into this new form of news which was CNN. Right Ted Ted Turner was like, if they are qualified and willing to go, I'm going to end them. So a lot of women into the workforce at that time. As as I guess, war is always like that. It's always brings a lot of women into the workforce.

Yeah, yeah, because I mean she's working alongside some you know, legionds like Christiana' I'm poor and you know, yes, I mean, you know, the best known international and war correspondence of the last few generations.

Yeah, yeah, because I mean she's working alongside some you know, legionds like Christiana' I'm poor and you know, yes, I mean, you know, the best known international and war correspondence of the last few generations.

You believe I.

You believe I.

Got her on screen. I couldn't have counted on that, but it was as a favorite job out of respect for Margaret. She did it because the day that we interviewed Christian was the day that Ukraine was invaded and all the journalists were pinned in the red. They just want to get there there there there their trauma bondage to the job, in my opinion, and maybe that's what it was with Margaret and wore her trauma inside matched the trauma outside. You know what. I've never thought of that, but that's exactly what I was trying to say before. Yes, So it was extremely generous of Christian to give us that time in the Margaret moth room at scene in London.

Got her on screen. I couldn't have counted on that, but it was as a favorite job out of respect for Margaret. She did it because the day that we interviewed Christian was the day that Ukraine was invaded and all the journalists were pinned in the red. They just want to get there there there there their trauma bondage to the job, in my opinion, and maybe that's what it was with Margaret and wore her trauma inside matched the trauma outside. You know what. I've never thought of that, but that's exactly what I was trying to say before. Yes, So it was extremely generous of Christian to give us that time in the Margaret moth room at scene in London.

Yeah, that observation is that's it's so on point, because if you think about it, it's like it's like the stuff that she sees and more, the horrors that she saw and more kind of kind of gave meaning to whatever crazy feelings she had buried inside or something.

Yeah, that observation is that's it's so on point, because if you think about it, it's like it's like the stuff that she sees and more, the horrors that she saw and more kind of kind of gave meaning to whatever crazy feelings she had buried inside or something.

Eh. Yeah, and her sense of justice and rage. You know, she had quite a a volcanic volcanic rage within her that would pop out at odd moments. But it kind of I think it made sense on some disgusting plane for her, like, yeah, look at this is how people behave. I knew it. I knew it from my childhood. Here it is, you know.

Eh. Yeah, and her sense of justice and rage. You know, she had quite a a volcanic volcanic rage within her that would pop out at odd moments. But it kind of I think it made sense on some disgusting plane for her, like, yeah, look at this is how people behave. I knew it. I knew it from my childhood. Here it is, you know.

So one of the things that made the siege of Sadajevo unique was that it's really the first time in a conflict of that size that journalists have been deliberately targeted. And of course it's coinciding with this advent of CNN, So you've got this demand for twenty four hour news. Tell us what happened to Margaret Insadeeva.

So one of the things that made the siege of Sadajevo unique was that it's really the first time in a conflict of that size that journalists have been deliberately targeted. And of course it's coinciding with this advent of CNN, So you've got this demand for twenty four hour news. Tell us what happened to Margaret Insadeeva.

So the only time Margaret ever got shot, she was injured. She was in the back of the van with her colleagues and they were going to do a run of the mill story out at the airport, and instead of going around the tortuous back ways, somebody insisted that the driver goes straight down Sniper Alley, and they must have sort of cringed. But you just grin and bear it, you know, you just get on.

So the only time Margaret ever got shot, she was injured. She was in the back of the van with her colleagues and they were going to do a run of the mill story out at the airport, and instead of going around the tortuous back ways, somebody insisted that the driver goes straight down Sniper Alley, and they must have sort of cringed. But you just grin and bear it, you know, you just get on.

With your job.

With your job.

You know, it's not her place to say these things. Anyway, she just happened to be the unlucky person in the back of the van who got their face blown off. And the man who made that decision had kind of ruined his life. He never forgave himself.

You know, it's not her place to say these things. Anyway, she just happened to be the unlucky person in the back of the van who got their face blown off. And the man who made that decision had kind of ruined his life. He never forgave himself.

Yeah, I mean it was really touch and go, right, Like, they get her out of there, they rush her off. She's flying to the US for treatment. Still super touch and go. And then she has that amazing line where she says she wants to return to Sudajovo so that she can collect her teeth, wanted.

Yeah, I mean it was really touch and go, right, Like, they get her out of there, they rush her off. She's flying to the US for treatment. Still super touch and go. And then she has that amazing line where she says she wants to return to Sudajovo so that she can collect her teeth, wanted.

To find her teeth, And Jack, did you know that I found her teeth? What found her teeth? Where were her teeth? In the back of the driver's head. A cushion of the bullet was so extreme that it shattered all her teeth, and all the shards ended up in the back of his teeth or many of them, and for years he would be in the shower be sort of washing his head and go, what's that little tickle thing? And it will think out onto the tiles. And I tried to put it in the film, but the New Zella film commissioners like, oh, everybody begged me not to seem disrespectful. I was like, Margaret Ward'll love.

To find her teeth, And Jack, did you know that I found her teeth? What found her teeth? Where were her teeth? In the back of the driver's head. A cushion of the bullet was so extreme that it shattered all her teeth, and all the shards ended up in the back of his teeth or many of them, and for years he would be in the shower be sort of washing his head and go, what's that little tickle thing? And it will think out onto the tiles. And I tried to put it in the film, but the New Zella film commissioners like, oh, everybody begged me not to seem disrespectful. I was like, Margaret Ward'll love.

It, Yeah, she would, I love it.

It, Yeah, she would, I love it.

But to be honest, it didn't totally fit anywhere in the in the film, so it got lost. But it's an interesting little water cooler moment I would have liked to include.

But to be honest, it didn't totally fit anywhere in the in the film, so it got lost. But it's an interesting little water cooler moment I would have liked to include.

Yeah, that's amazing. So how did you feel at the end of it about the directing process? This is something you would like to do a bit more.

Yeah, that's amazing. So how did you feel at the end of it about the directing process? This is something you would like to do a bit more.

Yeah, I'm like totally hooked now. I don't know why I didn't do it in the last thirty years when I could have. I've been offered the chance many times, and I just always found it such a rotten job. But now that I've directed a little independent documentary style film, I'm now hungry to do it again, probably a narrative one with actors this time, since that's really what I understand best. So I'm working on a number of scripts and you know, I've got to go and try to get funded somewhere in the world. And yeah, I'm just hustling like everybody else.

Yeah, I'm like totally hooked now. I don't know why I didn't do it in the last thirty years when I could have. I've been offered the chance many times, and I just always found it such a rotten job. But now that I've directed a little independent documentary style film, I'm now hungry to do it again, probably a narrative one with actors this time, since that's really what I understand best. So I'm working on a number of scripts and you know, I've got to go and try to get funded somewhere in the world. And yeah, I'm just hustling like everybody else.

It's good. Well, I mean for a first crackt director, and you did such a good job, especially directing in the documentary. You did such a good job. You really, I just I think you did. If you were aspiring to bring Margaret home with the story, I think you more than achieved that.

It's good. Well, I mean for a first crackt director, and you did such a good job, especially directing in the documentary. You did such a good job. You really, I just I think you did. If you were aspiring to bring Margaret home with the story, I think you more than achieved that.

So can go great. Thank you that and I will say I had help, you know, I had great colleagues, so it definitely is a team effort. But thank you on behalf of all of us where we're proud of that. Thank you.

So can go great. Thank you that and I will say I had help, you know, I had great colleagues, so it definitely is a team effort. But thank you on behalf of all of us where we're proud of that. Thank you.

We appreciate your time. That is Lucy Lawless, the director of the new documentary Never Look Away, about Keywee camera woman Margaret Moth. Now Never Look Away as premiering tonight eight thirty pm on the rialto Channel, and it has encore screenings throughout March and April. All of the details are at rialto Channel dot co dot nz.

We appreciate your time. That is Lucy Lawless, the director of the new documentary Never Look Away, about Keywee camera woman Margaret Moth. Now Never Look Away as premiering tonight eight thirty pm on the rialto Channel, and it has encore screenings throughout March and April. All of the details are at rialto Channel dot co dot nz.

For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live to newstalksz'd B from nine am Saturday, or followed upon podcast on iHeartRadio,

For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live to newstalksz'd B from nine am Saturday, or followed upon podcast on iHeartRadio,