Ruthie's Table 4Mark Carney does more than you can imagine – previously Governor of the Bank of England and the Bank of Canada, he is now UN Special Envoy for Climate Action, UK government’s climate-finance advisor, and Vice Chairman of Brookfield Asset Management.
Mark runs miles before the rest of us have had our first espresso. He sings, writes a best-selling book – Value(s) - cooks for his four children and is a master of the technique for grilling a Bistecca Fiorentina to perfection.
Listen to him and Ruthie on Episode 37 of Ruthie's Table 4 discussing all that he does, and more.
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home.
On Ruthie’s Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers.
Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks.
Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation.
For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/
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Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/
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Welcome to River Cafe, Table four, a production of I Heart Radio and Adam I Studios. Just the twoss, Rothie, I know so nice. We should actually tell everyone that we're sadly for me very far apart. I think I looked it up the other day. While we three thousand, three, two hundred and something is miles miles. You're in Ottawa and I'm in London. Mark is the United Nations Special Envoy for Climate Action, the UK Prime Minister's Climate finance advisor, and the former Governor of the Bank of England. Is also a really good cook. Okay, can you just give me the go command when you're ready and I'll start. Okay, Hannah one and two and three, go Hello. I'm Mark Carney and i'd like to read. Sorry, I'm going to start again, Ruthie, because I don't want to read. I want to tell you about how to make tortre decapri. The ingredients start with three fifty grams of blanched white whole almonds. Ideally, if you're Ruthie from Andalucia, a sustainable farm, there grams of dark chocolate at least cocoa solids of unsalted butter, and make sure it's soft grams of castor sugar, something we didn't have when I was growing up. And five eggs and make sure you separate them. Normally takes me a few goals to do that. Preheat the oven to a hundred and fifty degrees, so this is going to be a slow bake. Butter around a twenty centimeter cake tin lined the base with greaseproof paper and something I often forget. Then you need to separate the almonds into halves. Finally, grind half of them in a food processor, put that into a bowl, and then coarsely grind the other half, and include the chocolate with that. Cream the butter and sugar, and tell it's pale. Add the egg yolks one by one, and then add all of the ground nuts and chocolate in a separate bowl. Whisked the egg whites until they form soft peaks. Fold half of those egg whites into the chocolate mixture to loosen, and then the remaining egg whites, and then you're pretty much ready. Now you'll notice, but there's no flour in this cake. One of the unique aspects of tortore decapri but it's it's part of its Genius baked for forty five minutes or until set. Torture Decapri by Ruthie Rodgers. Thank you, Mark. Interesting as I was listening to you read sound so much like a cook and explaining it so clearly. I think that the torture decapri, which is also interested, is that you do use very bitter chocolate, don't you. It's kind of it is a very dark chocolate. I mean sometimes I think when we used to make it in the very beginning, we even made it with unsweetened chocolate. I think you did because one of your books you have a handwritten note and you used to have to source it from used to have to source it from America Baker's unsweetened chocolate. Did you ever have about in Canada baker that's you know interesting. Yes, my mother used to use Baker's unsweet and chocolate and she used to melt it, you know, boil the water and put a cup with the bakers in the cup and then it would melt in the in the cup and then would be added to the to the baking. That's interesting because I was talking to your brother Sean last night and we were talking about your mother. He said that she grew up in a town that you couldn't get to buy road and that you'd have to wait for the boat to come and with supplies, and that she was really passionate and really good baker. What did she make No, that's right, I mean she to go back to the start. She grew up in a town called Britannia Beach, which is a spectacular location on what's called how Sound. So if anyone listening has ever gone to Whistler, there's now a highway that goes through Britannia Beach. It's an abandoned mining town, but at the time it was isolated, as you say, there was a boat that would come once a week, but just a beautiful, beautiful spot. And then moved to the Northwest Territories with my father and that's where I was born. So that's in the effectively the Arctic of Canada. And a great cook and a great baker as you suggest, as my brother obviously told you, and just a huge variety of baking from cakes, two pies too, cookies as we would call them, you know, wide range of biscuits. And I was when I was younger, I was an enthusiastic baker inspired by my mother. So maybe that's partly why I've gravitated to the Georgia Decapri. My baking muscles have atrophied a bit um, so I had to go to this simpler But there was one thing. I'll tell you, there's one thing about what's not really baking, but there's one. Almost all the baking was comfort food. I found it tremendously comforting and enjoyable. Except there would be mornings in Edmonton where I grew up, and I come upstairs. My room is in the basement, and I come upstairs, and if my mother was making meal, that was that was a bad sign. I had a Pavlovian response to that, because it meant it meant that it was at least minus thirty. Oh that's when. That's when she would make oatmeal in that So I've now overcome my aversion to oatmeal. But it took it took decades. So did you grow up with good food apart from baking? Pretty traditional sort of variants of meat and to vege I remember growing up. I mean, it's uh, it's not why it became a central bank. Maybe it is why it became a correctly, but there being a period of time during you know, the inflation years of the mid seventies, where there were a lot of casseroles in my life and sort of combinations of things which are probably not recipes that are are still used today for a good reason, but they managed to stretch you know, ground beef for other things a little farther, which made sense at the time. Your house in London, I think it's be safe to say that the largest room and house was a kitchen, and that i'd walk into your house there would be either one of your four children or you or all of your four children, or somebody in the kitchen, and there was a sense that the kitchen was the place to be. Yes, that ability if if you can manage it to have a kitchen and space in the kitchen for others to be there and whether they're reading a book or answering emails or remember when two of our girls were younger, one of their favorite things actually get right up until last year, was they had this thing that they would do, I don't know why. They would do it immediately after dinner called airplane, which is you know, one of them would lie on the ground and put her feet up in the other would you balance on that and and they would either do that or immediately after very large meal, go out and bounce on the trampoline, which is the kind of thing you can do when you're twelve, but not the wrong side of forty. And was it very different than your work life in terms of being the governor of the Bank of and meals become very formal. You know that that has changed a fair bit over the years. So there is a formal dining room at the bank and you know when August visitors are there either you can have a formal lunch or a dinner. When you have conferences, you know, a dinner in the what's called the courtroom, which is an absolutely spectacular room, Sir John so own inspired room, and that brings the full majesty of the bank in the history of the United Kingdom to bear and it's you know, particularly if there's a G seven meeting or something like that, have it there. So that's great. You know. There there is a very good cafeteria at the bank on the sixth floor of Threadneedle Street which most people eating the old and the new I guess which for many institutions in the UK is is the right way to do it you want to keep, I think, and certainly it's an outsider. I wanted to keep some of the traditions. But it wasn't the case of, you know, going for lunch every day in the state rooms and you know, finished and off with port although there were many days which I which I sneaked down there. It's those interesting to people about working and food. You know. One of my favorite stories about you was when one of my granddaughter's friends asked you who is the most important person you'd ever met, and you said the Pope, And you said that you had lunch with the Pope, and I was wondering. I never asked you, do you remember what you ate? What would the Pope have for lunch? Well, we were in the heart of Rome. I think it's interesting the question. I don't know the answer to this. I suspect what the Pope has for lunch, or at least this pope has for lunch, is much simpler than what the Pope where the Vaticans served at the lunch that I attended, because he wasn't originally scheduled to come to this lunch, and it was the day before the World Cup final between Argentina and Germany, so it would have been fourteen, I guess. And of course he's Argentinian, and the previous popes who still alive is German, so that was you know, and he showed up. The Pope showed up at the lunch, and you know bit of the conversation about that. But it was an elaborate lunch, you know, several courses, and there was a past of course, and I think a fish of course is the main than cheese and dessert. But he told he told this parable at the at the start of the lunch, the Pope says that, look, we're gonna have a nice meal together. It's very important sharing. And we're gonna start the meal with with wine. And wine is many things that has a bouquet and color, a taste that compliments the food, and alcohol which enlivens our senses, and you know, it enlivens all our senses effectively. But we will finish the meal with grappa, and grap is alcohol and it's wine distilled. And I think this is an interesting analogy. But then he makes the analogy which says, and humanity people are many things. They're rational, they're passionate, they're curious, they're altruistic, they're self interested. The market is one thing, so he means the market economy, it's one thing. It's self interested. Your job, and then he points to everyone who's I was at a conference with a very wide range of people from business and finance, and and he points to all of us sixty odd people who are at this lunch, and he says, your job is to turn the grab it back into wine, to turn the market back into humanity, and he sits down. When we met in Tuscany, there would be times of the day where we just couldn't find you because you were running, and you would disappear for hours. I remember one part of the beginning of your day, which was drinking a whole leader of water, which I still tried to do because you know, you told me that. I think that it was Jeff Bezos who told you, Ruthie, he was nothing, It was nothing until I told him. I'll tell you it was my friend Nikolai Aarons who told me this. And he's the chemist, very accomplished guy, and he told me the most important thing for cognitive functioning is to drink a leader of water. You know, the first thing in the morning because whatever whatever you've eaten or drank the night before, your brain dehydrates overnight. So this helps. And I began doing this. I happened to I'm not like super close to Jeff Bezos, but I mentioned it to him when I was on a hike with him. Where was that. It was in Switzerland? Actually I mentioned it to him, and then I saw him about ten years later, and he said remarkably, he said, the guy's got a good memory, he said, he said, Mark, I think of you every morning when I drink water, which is fair because I do think of Nikolai every morning, and now I think of you Ruthie, and I wonder if you're I think of you and everyone listening to this that we're going to be super cognitive. That's why I think I'm going to all think of each other so well, there's quite a lot of time to think when you're drinking that much water. Is that so you're still starting your day with water? And then do you have do you start riding right away? I was thinking about whether you could describe your working day when you were writing this extraordinary book value building a better world for all. I mean, I'm most productive. It's like that many people are in writing in the morning and a real premium on getting up. Ideally and most mornings, certainly during lockdown, meditate for fift twenty minutes, water right for a couple of hours before eating, and ideally I will left when I finished writing the day before the work in mid thought if you will almost mid paragraph, so you have something to pick up when you start right. Yeah, it's it's slightly I found it slight tough if you finished a chapter and then a blank page issue as opposed to restart my mind on it? Is that something unique to you? A lot of I never that's interesting. I'm slightly embarrassed to call myself a writer, and I guess I do written the book. I've graduated. You quickly moved me on from Baker in this conversation. We'll go back to the banking for sure. By that time, is everybody out and about and you have breakfast by yourself? Would you make it your Yeah? I would tend to making myself a granola some fruit cappuccino. You are talking all the time about values, values and food and climate. How we're going to feed everyone and still be sustainable. Is that part of your concern right now. In terms of I think there's a few things that come out of that. One is, you know, I've always found I mean, you know, the provenance of all food at the River Cafe, and you've researched it in most cases visited, um you know, whether it's you know, your example of the almonds and uh, I know we've had long conversations about the you know, the olive oil and the tomatoes, and I mean and on and on and on. And that's important because the connection, the connection that comes with that, and the understanding that comes with that, and the and in many cases the history that comes with the goods of productions and and and the values that come from the people. So there's that. Then the big issue which you're alluding to, which is on climate, which is that around or so of greenhouse gas emissions come from from agriculture and land use um and and a substantial proportion of that is you know, could be reduced through regenerative agriculture, through reforestation, through different methods, different foods as well. And the reality with climate change is there's there's no one simple solution to climate change. There's no one in silver bullet, and there's many things that do need to change, and part of it is to ensure that we have sustainable agriculture, that we have sustainable methods, and that the that as the world, you know, we hope, as the world becomes more equal and people progress around the world, that we can just feed everybody, but we can feed everybody in a sustainable way into a high standard. And that requires knowing where the food comes from, how it's prepared, sourcing locally as much as possible, obviously, and having the balance. And you know, we have a long way to go on that, but a much greater awareness and certainly you find I know with your with your grandchildren, I find with my children and their friends in acute awareness of these issues and a passionate about them that you know, it gives one hope for change and an important journey that we're all going to be one. What do you look for in a restaurant? Do you love restaurants? What do you love Do you look for a variety of things? I like simple. I like simple and open as a restaurant, so I don't like sort of dark and you know creviced restaurants so much. I like simple and open. I think influence a bit I spent a year in Japan, so that you know, kind of reinforce some of this. And I do like when even I can tell the quality of the ingredients and the preparation, sort of slow cooking that brings out the intensity of the flavors. I like vibrancy in a restaurant. I like, you know, hearing the sort of buzz, if you will, of a restaurant. Was there a time when you would go into a restaurant here people would stop you at what people want to ask you about Brexit? Or would they interrupt your meal? And you know what they ask you about doing all that was going on. Did you feel that it wasn't private that you did you sort of yourself people. I mean, I saw it happening. The reason I do is I remember walking at a restaurant with you, and people definitely wanted to reach out. People would trip me as and they know they were they were excited. People eating the River Cafe were never want to trip you. That was one of the unusual things I think during the period that. Look, it's never a good when central bankers are more prominent, because it means that there's deep problems in the financial system where the economy. But given that circumstance, I mean, yes, I was recognized virtually everywhere I went and quite often stopped and h and and that was that took a fair bit of getting used to and you know, accepted in and and you were able to eat. We I think we try and we try and protect you know, as much as possible when because you are I mean, you know, there is the public nature of a restaurant and then the very private nature of the table. So you just go to a restaurant for the comfort and and the connection. And I think that comfort with your mother's cooking and connection with you know, the times you and I have spent in places and all different types of cooking and making zucchini flowers and on the grill with Luigi and the Fiorentinas, or the fact that you're so far away from me now we're connected by a conversation about food, ingredients and eating. And then the comfort of that, you know, the comfort of being able to see you and my screen and to talk to you about food and the memories that we have. And so I think in terms of comfort is talking about food. Comfort is eating food. And I was wondering from my last question to ask you, what would your comfort food be? Comfort food? Okay, can I just say one thing before I say that? Which is that? So I mentioned my Pavlovian response to oatmeal, which was negative. My Pavlovian response to if your the zuka, you know, zucchini flower and luigis Fiorentina, it's amazing, thick steak is absolutely opposite. I think, I think, absolutely heaven that that whole ritual around both of those is an extraordinary thing in a connection comfort food. I think my comfort food is pasta pomdoro, and not just because I'm on your podcasts free, but the way you make it, because it combines exactly what I like. It is a simple recipe, very few ingredients. It takes what does it take? It probably takes two hours to prepare the sauce. You have to cook the onions for a long time until they dissolved in the olive oil, and then you add the tomatoes and then cook it and reduce it down to so it's those things are like, and then it's combined with the pasta, and it's so good. And you know that. Every time I come into your restaurant, look at the venue and I, you know, I pick out a main and I pick out you know, it's something for the desert, etcetera. And then I say, can I have the past depomadoro And the answer is yes. Answer always is that is totally comforting and just a final thing which if I may, to bring it all full circle, which is the other day you and I had a lovely zoom to celebrate the publication of your book and the friendship. And I seem to recall that some of the guests took comfort in the grownies. But our two daughters, Cleo and Tests, who are the two home with us now, they made River Cafe, and I didn't know they were going to do this, but they made River Cafe pasta palmadoro, including the homemade pasta, which it was a perfect comfort combination. So yeah, that's pretty good. Well, there we are connection comfort and a yes, Thank you Mark, Thank you Ruthie. To visit the online shop of the River Cafe, go to shop the River Cafe dot co dot uk. River Cafe Table four is a production of I Heart Radio and Adam I Studios. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
