As I listen back to the incredibly funny and clever and cool and curious artist and mother, Atong Atem, whose worked with the likes of Tate Modern in London and the NGV more locally here in Melbourne, the first question I ask in this interview is challenging me a little. You'll have to listen to find out why.

From motherhood to friendship to womanhood to racism to career to making work, work alongside parenting - this is a conversation about life more than anything, and I’m better for having it. I think you will be too. So let’s hear it.

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This podcast was recorded on the lands of the Boon Wurong people of the Kulin Nation. The land on which we're lucky enough to raise our sons and daughters always was and always will be Aboriginal land. We Pay The Rent and you can too here.