Rick Doblin founded the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) in 1986, and we’ve been friends since shortly thereafter. He and his organization stand at the forefront of the movement to destigmatize and legitimize MDMA and psychedelics for therapeutic purposes and even more broadly. We talked about his battles with federal agencies, his efforts to advance MDMA-assisted therapy in Israel and Jordan, his fundraising from prominent right-wingers, and his recent successes in recruiting police officials to his cause. I also pressed him on the challenges he increasingly confronts as for-profit investors take the place of philanthropists in supporting psychedelics research broadly and MAPS specifically – and also the problems that have resulted when therapists associated with MAPS are accused of inappropriate sexual behavior.