UM, I know I I don't normally talk about the fact that I have another podcast on I Heart which is called I Hear Voices christ to Carlson. But we're doing something super cool that's launching right when this episode is gonna air. So I just want two seconds to talk about it because it's really neat. UM will give you. Okay, that's it, all right, moving on to other appreciations, other things, onto literary distance. UM. Yes, so uh. We talked to all the greatest voice over actors in the country. We love it. I love animation so much. But our number one goal when we met up with I Heart and I Heart was like, let's go do it is we wanted to do an American Idol style contest. We're blanketing the country with a contest call all the super awesome contests become the next big voice actor. And so it is open for everybody over the age of eighteen who's a US resident. We are getting everyone who can be involved to enter. We are going to find a colleague, and the prizes are ridiculous. So I just wanted to what do people have to do, like send in a two minute clip that's either video or audio. You send it to I hear voices at I Heart radio dot com between January nine and February nine, and you could do whatever you want your own voices ad reads. If you think you've got the good you know in a world like whatever kind of voice you can do, do that and the prizes are insane. First you get flown out to Los Angeles where you have lunch with Christie and I. You get a thousand dollar spending money. But if that's not cool enough, which it isn't obviously, at that lunch, you also meet with your new agent, because you are signing with my voiceover agency C E. S Day for a year. Like you get a break, you get a big break. And then I called my friends a Critical Role, which is, you know, obviously a huge juggernaut around the world. And you are also getting a private session with Emmy Award winning director Sam Regal who's one of the cast members of Critical Role, and Emmy Award winning UH Emmy nominated Mary McGlenn, who's the director of their new show box Makina. It's really cool. It is a ton of fun. If you think you can do voices, you've grown up watching cartoons, you want to try it. This is really an opportunity. I mean, any time I tell an actor you win an actual agent, they're like, you've got to be KIDDI makes it's one of the hardest things to do in this one of the hardest things. It's it's such a hard world to break into, um, you know, mostly because it's so competitive. I think a lot of people think they can do this. You know, it's a heart it's such a difficult art form, and but it's it's so fun too, you know, It's it's difficult, but it's so fun. And when you watch cartoons or you listen to stuff, you're always like, I think I could do cool voices, you know, like everybody kind of has that. Not everybody, but I think a lot of people have that in the back of their mind, like this is fun. That's so enter because we're picking sixteen people and then you're gonna go head to head against each other until we get down to the final two where we have a big show and then the final the finalist you're picked, you win, flown out to l a, the cut, the agent, the whole thing. So we're super excited. I hear voices at i heart radio dot Com between January nine and February nine, US residents over the age of eighteen. We can't wait. That is my selfish plug. If you know anybody who's like at your bank, your uncle, your aunt, anybody who's like, oh they do funny voices, tell them to enter. It's gonna be a ton of fun. That's it. I'm done with what I have to say? Can we move on to something more amazing? Daniel? Yeah, I I have something I would like to confess. So for the last like at least several weeks, people have been hitting me up about this very important topic and I'm being tagged in it, and I I've like not wanted to say anything about it, but it's recently come to like such ahead that I just I can't avoid it anymore. And so I would like to say that I do, in fact love cush lings, and I just cush lings are amazing. They have fun to have pizza parties with, They are fun to go roller bleeding with. You can eat birthday cake with goush lings. And they bounce. Can you bounces? Sure you can? Why not? Yeah? You can? Some of them are just possibly get framed portraits of my cush lings and put them on the wall in my bedroom. You could, you could, you could go swiggles n swiggles around my portraits of Mike. I'm not sure I trust you, Danielle. You you're a little thing with the truth. Is there any proof that you're right there? Right? You know what? Eastern Roll the proof? Wow, Danielle, you really loves Yeah, Jodia, they're cool. Guess what. Yeah, there's wild Times. Wait cool, they're's are the same stuff we are? Yeah, Larissa, let's roll. Hey, he's ticklish, party down, Peter, Time for some ease wild skateboarding. Tug didn't really want a wild time. You want wild time, Suisling Wild Times. I had no idea this thing existed, and you somehow came up on our private chat thread. I think Will found it and Alexa Bliss just being wrestler. Alexa Bliss had it up on her Instagram, and I just got all I know is that I thought, because Danielle and I did a inline skating, I have grinders in line, so do I. I thought that was the most ninetiest thing ever. But this takes the cake, just unbelievable. Yeah. I love it so much and had no idea you did this and then I had no idea Jodi and Larissa, like what Jodi, Jody Sweeten is in it with me and Larissa Olank and and filming this commercial was one of the like, honestly one of the funniest days of my life, because I remember when the offer for the commercial came through. It was like, hey, we're getting you know, we're hoping to get Danielle, Jody Sweeten and Larissa Olank together for this wild Time cuch Ling's commercial and uh, you know, here's whatever the money was. And I don't I don't even think I really knew what a wild times kouch Ling was. It was just like, I don't call me crazy, but you know, thirteen years older. I mean, I think my hair is cut. I'm I'm sixteen and that my hair is cut. So I remember getting the offer and and being in solely on the idea that Jodi and Larissa were in it with me, and being like, cool, that sounds great. We'll go have a day where we'll shoot a commercial for this product I'm in and and didn't get a storyboard beforehand, didn't get anything, just showing up on the day, and I remember vividly Jody on one side of me, and Larissa on the other side of me, and the director walking us through the storyboard for the commercial and being like, what what the koush lings skateboard down at the skateboard, and and the and the dialogue Danye, you're really into Kouchlings, and being like, oh my gosh, and and all of us being like U huh, and then the three of us walking off the stage and just dying laughing like what are we doing? This is gonna be a nightmare, And and it was just for the rest of the day. We couldn't stop laughing. We laughed so hard. I have memories of people paying their pants and I have been told explicitly that that did not happen, so it must just be like in my head it happened. I'm sorry, So somebody their pants, is what you're saying, because they were laughing so hard. Yes, because we laughed so hard. Well, what for one thing for sure that happened. Oh my god, I can't wait to talk to Larissa too. We need to have Jody onto um. I know for sure what happened is one of the times we were jokingly making fun of what we were doing. Jody did a high kick in the like white pants she was wearing, and she was like, oh, like couch langs and kicked her kicked her leg up by and her pants ripped, fully ripped, I mean just and everybody heard it. And she put her leg down and she was like, you need to go change my pants. Um god, So hold on. I just love that you guys. So you guys were because the realities, you're just too old to be commercial for like six year olds, ten year olds, and you were teenagers, okay, so you were feeling this sort of like oh, this is just the weirdest thing we're going to be a part of. But you turned that, Like I see, if I had been in that situation, I would have like cried and like gone to my dressing room and like maybe tried to get out of the job. Just why I didn't do commerce, Like I never did commercial site was so terrified of that situation. The fact that you guys were able to spin it into like let's just have fun and laugh is so awesome and admirable and like you so much healthier because like, who gives a crap, Like you just do this, you get paid. The people that want couch lens are gonna love it, and no one else was going to notice until thirty years later when it's on the internet, when it's going viral on the internet and people are tagging you in it. Yeah. No, I mean honestly, had I been doing the commercial alone, I probably would have had the reaction that you're talking about. Writer. I would have felt like, this is a career ender. Why did I yes? Because I did other projects like that where I was like what am I doing? How did I get here? Um? And this commercial I think because Jodi and Larissa were there and we were like, well, all three of us can't like we've all agreed to do this. We're all in the same boat, like, let's just have fun. We had true, I mean we had a blast. It was all. It was just one of those days where you're like, well, we're here and they paid us, and this is what we agreed to do. Let's just do it. Can I ask an important question and I'd like to say, yes, I still have the couch links? No? No, yeah, exactly, UM, And I think it needs to be asked and get the bleep button ready because it needs to be asked this way. What the is akusch Ln What you remember balls? Do you remember couch balls? There were, but yeah, those are those. There were couchh balls with they're like rubber, you know, hairy thing like don't they're like basically the rubber like a like a shredded rubber band, so shred rubber band with colors. And they became very popular like throw and toss or I don't know, but yeah, that's all they could do. And so it seems like the next evolution was to put a face and legs in our where they do things now, like you saw the one that had the was on a skateboard and so it rolled down. Yeah, it's a couche link, I said, of just a couchh ball, it's perfection. I not speaking for rider, but I watched it fifty times in a few times, and like I said, when I when I noticed that there was framed cush ling photos Danny his bedroom wall, like portraits of couse Lan's and then not as if that wasn't enough, they had added animation squiggles around them like perfection spinning camera with you guys lying on the ground that the spinning camera had me every time like looking up like awesome, it was the best. But I mean, I know that feeling because I remember, you know, we used to do t J. I have promos and stuff on the set constantly where somebody would show up and be like, hey, guess here's what we're gonna do. It would always be some over energetic director if it was poor job. I'm sure it was awful to have to like come on and tell all these young actors to like stay energetic and promote this thing. And we would be under contract to have to do it, and we would be miserable and like that feeling of just like one of them all the time with the jump he jump, Remember that's want to jump, but want to jump. Because every time we get a photo shoot for Boy Meets World, every season, we would have to do a new photo shoot, multiple photo shoots, I feel like, but they wanted new, fick pictures of us that because we've gotten older or whatever, and inevitably they would hand us a globe, either in inflatable globe, a giant globe would be leaning on a globe, so there are so many globe photos it's always and then Ben and I would always have to do a back to back photo at some point you know, oh my arm on bench on ben shoulder. I always had you next. I was the older and you know, we would go through these different photographers every year, and sometimes they would be amazing and nice, and then other times they would be very condescending and not know how to work with children or just bizarre. And there was one season where some guy I just remember he didn't know what he was doing in the I think he had a New York accident. At least he has in my if. We and and we we were joking around, you know, basically mocking the entire process that we were in. And we were like, what if we all jumped in the air and like high five, thinking it was the cheesiest thing ever. And this guy overheard us and was like, oh, oh, the kids want to jump, all right, the kids are gonna jump, everybody, the kids are gonna jump. And then we ended up doing it like he took us completely at phase value. So for years afterwards, we were just always the kids wanted up quick, quick, figure out how we can make the kids jump. This is also exactly why that commercial is. It proves why every craft service table was just full of candy and soda because they try to pump you up on sugar and then get you out there. Come on, be be energetic. Oh man, that was so that was it was just marvelous, Daniel, it was marvelous. You're welcome. Thank you for letting me make this admission. I feel much better, So document for the ages, so good. Welcome to Pod Meets World. I'm Daniel Fishel, I'm right or Strong, and I'm Wilfred ll Hi. Christy. Hey, well, I have some unbelievable news. Oh there's a Kim Possible Rounstoppable reunion in the works. No, no, no, that would be great, but no, I have other big news. We just launched the Super Awesome Contest to become the next Big Voice Actor. That's right. We want to give an amateur voice actor an opportunity to win a one year contract with my voice over agency c s D. They are amazing. I've been with them for over twenty years and that's not all. A trip to l A to meet Will and myself and some amazing prizes as well. Yeah. So, how do people enter the Super Awesome Contest to become the next Big Voice Actor? Christie? Send a two minute or less video or audio file. Showcasing your best voices. Okay, well it's time do your announcer voice for the rest. Oh yes, no purchase necessary. Submit your entry it I Hear Voices that I Hear Radio dot com Between January nine and February nine. Entries will be judged. The contest is open to legal residents of the United States who are eighteen and older. Official rules can be found by going to our Instagram page and I Hear Voices podcasts for complete details. Listen to I Hear Voices on the I Heart Radio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new I Heart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing could be knowing who to turn to when questions arise, or times get tough, or you're at the end of the road. Okay, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place, because I'm here to help this. I promise you. Oh good, seriously, I swear, and you won't have to send an S O S because I'll be there for you. And so my husband Michael. Um Hey, that's me. Yea. We know that Michael and a different hot sexy teen crush boybander each week to guide you through life step by step, not another one. Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking, this is the story of my life just now. If so, tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never ever have to say bye bye bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with a Lance Bass on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. So today's guest is another example of us just going out there and becoming amateur sleuths to track someone down because her her name is a name that came up twice during our season one recaps and we really wanted to know more about her. Um In addition to writing two of our standout favorites from the first season, Boys to Mensa and the show We shot Last it wasn't the actual finale, but the finale we shot last of Boy Meets a Girl, she also wrote episodes of Webster, Living Single and an episode of For Your Love In, but she did not return to Boy Meets World for season two, and because her episodes are so beloved and really good, we wanted to hear from her. So please welcome to the show. Jeannette could teach us. Hi. Hi guys, Hi, Oh my god. You guys look so grand so you and you're not in your pajamas at all. You wonderful. Thanks you too. You guys haven't changed a bit, well except thirty years. Yeah. Um, thank you so much for agreeing to do this. I don't know when we to you. When I reached out to you on Instagram? Did you have any sort of hesitation about coming on the pod? Absolutely, I'm usually behind the cameras, um the writer. At one time I did a show and we all showed all the writers showed up as monks with like hoods on. But that was the closest I came to be writing. Well, thank you for being here, and I'd love to start with you in the same place we start with with everyone we have on I would like to know your origin story. But before we even get to your origin story on boy Meat's World, I want to talk to you about, Um, where did your love for writing come from? And how did you end up writing in Hollywood? Tell us your story. UM, let's see. Well, I came across my first play and I had written it when I was fourteen. UM, and it's so cute because I do these little pictures and everything. UM. And as I grew up and went through school in college, I found that, UM, I could write my way out of a brown bag. Like if the three question was you know what what happened in the Civil War, I would take the word the and just extrapolate on it, getting an A in the in the class. So UM television came about really coincidentally and synchronicity. I think what I really wanted to do was right for the Rolling Stone because I was a rocker when I was younger. Yeah, I really wanted to do that. But UM, I ended up writing a countdown radio show. I don't think they have those anymore, but you UM do the top forty hits exactly, exactly exactly. And UM I wrote that with my best friend. She was producing this show. It went out to a hundred and sixty four radio stations across the United States. Um not Chicago, not New York or Los Angeles, said Francisco. But you know maybe Yeah, So when didn't monsec got canceled, and my best friend and I went over to Lucy's l Adobe across the street from Yes, and we sat there and we're like, we're in the entertainment industry. Now got canceled it. Yeah, So then I was temping all over the place and she had referred me to a TV show that, wait for it, April Kelly was producing. Okay, there's my foray into television. Yes, which show? Remember it was a pilot and it was it might have been an hour of trivial Pursuit. Okay, you remember that game? Of course you'll of course, so that game, they did it in a studio and they had like three or four stars who were from that time period who were sitting in a couch while playing the game. But then they would do all these cameos. So we would go out on these cameos shoots. So we had William Shatner and we had Betty White and different people, and they would ask a question and then we would like being William Shatner onto the stage and then he would answer the Star Trek question. She has been the funniest person I've ever met. Yeah, we really connected because we both were pretty um rabby. I guess, I don't know. We were we dropped a lot of f bombs and just you know, we're making our way through as women, and uh. I ended up hooking up with her for a couple other gigs. I ended up on Webster Great, Great Show Yet and it was the last season and another I was a writer's assistant and I was working with another prediction secretary and she and I just used to hang out at lunch and come up with story ideas. So we came up with a story idea for Webster, and we knew if we ever got to pitch it, we would have to make it work. So one night, April's leaving and and she's collecting all the story ideas. They were like four or five episodes needed for the syndication deal. And she's like, nobody's coming up with ideas, and Tina goes, let have a Jeanette and I have an idea, and April goes, I'll take it. I'll hear it. And she gave us a pitch meeting and let us pitch it. And she asked all these questions, and of course we knew we had one shot, so we had figured out every single beat, and so we nailed it and we got it and then the network lie did better than the than some of the others, so they bumped ours up into first run and put someone else's story into the syndication. Wow. And so were you like freaking out at this time, like you had just been writing for radio and now you meet April Kelly and she's giving you a shot, and you've prepared and you kill it? Are you now just like, Oh my gosh, I'm a TV writer? No? I was like, oh my god, I am this is not happening. I'm not going to believe it until it actually happens industry right, and then the contract comes out and I'm like And so April took us along with Judy p Oli. I don't know if you know her, but she was with the Fons Happy Days. She was one of Fonzie's chicks. I don't know, Wait she she was. Was she leather Pinky Tusky Darrow? That's what it was. Okay, that's what I thought she. I think she's Leather Tusca Darrow. Yes. So um. Judy Peeley and April Kelly were both producers on Webster, and they took Tina and me out to dinner at the Palm. Oh nice. That was pretty exciting, and then we had to write the script, which was a whole another thing. So you form this relationship with April, and then I'm assuming you just continue to kind of go with her from show to show until you get to boy Meets World and ye, and so how did that come about? How did what did she talk to you about Boy Meets World? Tell us about that conversation where then you ended up joining boy Meat's World. Um, let's see. So I remember we went out to dinner at Iroha, which is a Japanese do you yes, Danielle knows restaurants like I know TV exactly. You talk to me about food. I'm there, We're sitting in a rohan. She goes, Okay, we're not going to get all excited yet, Like we're both like that, And she said, um, but you know, I pitched an idea to Disney and I think they're gonna go with it. They're gonna pare me up with this other producer and if it does, of course you're coming with me. And um, I'll give you the opportunity to pitch stories. We were We've all been told the same story about somebody was, you know, Ben Savage was sitting on a desk with with Michael Jacobs, and Michael knew instantly that we're going to do a show together. And here's the show I've come up with. So that's the story we've been told from the beginning. This is I'll be honest with you, You writer, Daniel, You guys might have heard of this. This is the first time I heard that it was really April that went in and pitched Boyan's world. I hadn't heard that before. This is the first we've heard that. But um, I'm that it all makes sense. Obviously, we've had other writers on the show who have come on, and we had kind of gathered the impression that in that first season it was really like a very divided room where there was like the Michael camp and the April camp. Is that a fair assessment? Absolutely? The mean girls and then April and her two or three and so who else was there on the April side besides you. I was trying to think of that now. It was definitely ken Kuda. I was gonna say, we've heard that ken Kuda was was was a good friend of April's as well, and still a laugh that we remember to this day. Ken Kuda's laugh was intoxicating and it was the one you could hear during runthrough like you knew you'd hit a joke when you heard ken Kuda go, it was great. He is another one man. He is just a really good writer. April Um. He was April's assistant at the very beginning of his career and she became his mentor. I think April loves to mentor because I came in on Webster with Tina and she mentored us. We wrote a couple we were We ended up writing three scripts as um partners. What is Tina's last name? Wong Tina? Tina and I wrote her three shows for TEENA, three different scripts for April and got them produced. It was a show that nobody heard of. It was called Santa Zabella and yes, Ken was on it as a writer, and Um, we just always had a lot of fun. Um. They're both hysterical. April is an amazingly generous human. I should just be her pr person. That's so grateful to her because I did go on Um Sanchezabell Air with her and then when Boy Meets World came up, Like I said, we talked about it and um, yeah, and then when it came about we came in, April was allowed, not allowed, but April was given the opportunity to bring a couple of writers in. Tricia Forrester. She was another woman that was there in season one was Patricia Forrester. Someone else that came with April Kelly. No, I don't think so, okay, maybe I mean was there she would like find writers, like yeah, one of one of the producers that you guys interviewed said, April found this writer, Bill Lawrence and was trying to you know, that's the little writer guy. Yeah, yeah, poor Bill exactly. Everyone has what it takes to make it in the business. Didn't get his shot on Boy Meats World. Poor guy, well did he? I thought he had one show? He did, he did. We heard that he wrote an episode, turned it in and he wasn't allowed to be in the writer's room. So his episode was picked apart and completely rewritten by the writer's room. And then when it actually got to tape night, he didn't recognize that it was even his script because there wasn't even one you know, last day thing that had stuck around. Just a hack that guy. So what were your experiences during that first season in the writer's room. Um. Yeah, it was definitely divisive. Only I didn't think. I mean, I didn't realize that going into it. I didn't know it was going to be that divided. Um, but it really was. There was there was a lot of snarkiness on the other side. Um, And that's okay. I mean, you know, obviously I didn't know that they had gotten this story that April was this monster. April, it's an amazing human being and so generous. I mean, I want to counteract that, because you know, the head mean Girl had a huge overall deal at Disney. And here's an example, like our p s would come in around four or five I think, and get ready for the evening because it was back in the day where they were delivering a lot of scripts and they had to copy all the scripts or at the very least they had to go pick them up from the copy or so they were up rather late into the night, and the mean Girl wouldn't buy them dinner. April just pulls out her heart and says, give us to the kids and let them order dinner. So she has a generous heart, and she really saw something in us and made it possible that if I came on the show as a writer's assistant or at the time, was a script coordinator on Boie Meat's World, then she would give us a chance, like she gave me a shot to pitch. So again, I knew I had one shot, and I went in with six stories and she loved four of them, and they ended up choosing to Wow. Yeah, those are two of the best of the first season. Frankly, so we've talked about. I mean, they really were two of the most well received. The ones we liked the best. I mean we you know Rider had Again I've said this before that Rider just found out he was on Boy Meets World like a week ago. Um, so he hasn't seen the shows ever, and Danielle and I haven't seen him since they were on. And I mean that first season is now thirty years ago, so watching it again it was watching a brand new show for all three of us. And collectively, your two episodes were two of our favorites. I mean they just and the ones that I do remember actually like it's so funny, especially you know, Boy Meets Girl was just like indelible. Um. But yeah, Boys to Mensa too. It's like they were both like the ones that the second we started watching was like, well I think I remember these lines actually this story. Yeah, yeah, they were very important in the first in the in the overall building of the first season. I mean, especially boy meets Girl you go back to you know what that started? It was, you know, it created the show. I mean it really did. It helped. It helped to push the show in the direction it was supposed to go. And that's why it was I think Danielle who was like, where the hell is this woman? Where we gotta go find her? What? These are easily two of the best episodes and the fact that then we lost your voice going into season two just felt so painful to think about. So it's to you guys, really sweet. Where did the ideas for those episodes come from? And then I also want to know, do you remember the two other ideas that April loved that I searched my house for those. I want to know all six of them. But it was back when I don't know. I I was just doing my job, do you know what I mean? Like I was in the writer's room all day and then I would go home and I would never want to just disappoint April like I had to. I wrote spec scripts that she read and gave me notes on to get agents and stuff like that, and I just never wanted to make her look bad or disappoint her on that show. I mean, it was finally really her baby, And so I it on my off hours, just sit in the room, come up with stuff talking about boy Meets Girl and what a fantastic memory an episode that is for for us when we when we watched it, did you like I'm trying to I'm trying to get to It wasn't until I think it's you know, significantly later in the show, maybe even season three, that to Panga and Corey actually become a couple like we were we're you know, we've just started season two and Corey already is kind of starting to date somebody new, Wendy. Um. He does ask to Panga out, but to Panka says, no, they can't really, they're not going to go through life together. Uh. And so did you on like, was there a thing in the writer's room about let's do an episode where Corey gets feelings for a girl and let's set it up where it's going to be to Panga was Topanga and Corey gonna be long game no matter what by that time? Or was that kind of an original idea you had, And I wouldn't say it's an original idea. I would say that it was a logical step for the progession of the show. I mean, the Sean character was a little older or a more mature, and so it just seemed logical that he was going to get the girls and first, and he was gonna he was going to take this more mature stance, and Corey wanted to wanted to keep up right. I mean, he's like, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna I'm gonna ask a girl out. And then he asks to pay out, which again, you know, you guys were the core of the show. And he's gonna ask to paying it out and then he flips, He's like, what the heck did I do? There? Really wasn't ready. Um No, I didn't see the long term. I couldn't. Once we weren't on the show. It was painful, pinful to watch. I personially think boy Meet's world could have gone ten years if they had slowed the role a little bit. Like I remember when they were taping my episode. Michael was pitching to the director to say like kind of have her, you know, walk up to him and you know, turn his collar and I'm like, you mean more like more flirtatiously saltry set okay and um, and we all kind of cringe. Do you remember we would be in the back of the stage in a room and we would be pitching. I think we were the I think it wasn't the main girls. I think it was just April and maybe like check Mannell in my opinion was it was so nice. He is one of the nicest people. Yes, for the For the record, I would like to say that the experience that you all had in the writer's room was very different than the experience we had with the writers. There are most are not all the writers I can think of. We're super sweet to me, I will speak just for me, very nice to me. We always got the best side of everybody. That's why we're so interested in capturing these stories because we were really insulated from everything going on there. So Jeff Minnell, Jeff Sherman, all of the ken Kuda, all the people from the first season, second season and on. We always had a great relationship with the writers. They were always wonderful people to us, April everybody, So that's why hearing a lot of these stories at first was so jarring. And then we're kind of getting into it because whoever it was, whether it was April, I'm guessing with her instincts it was more April than anyone else, but who knows. Um, somebody was protecting us from seeing any of this happen. So were the minnell Sherman, all the people we've had on They're all wonderful people to us. We're still close friends with a lot of them. Um. So the experiences that you went through are very different than the experiences that we went through, which is why we're so interested to see the other side of it, because as kids, we didn't get any of that. Yeah we didn't. We didn't know what the what was going on in the room. Um, and I do think, yeah, we were very well protected from it, which is what probably what you guys wanted. You didn't want your adult um issues coming onto the set with kids, which is the responsible thing to do. So it's only now that we're going I wonder what was going on for them, But your instincts are correct. Jeff Minnell is one of the nicest people you'll ever meet in your life. He's a wonderful man. So yeah, he's a great guy. And April looked him and he would come sit in the room like there was there were two rooms essentially, right, and so even on set it was separated really that much. There were two rooms. That's how the two camps were. Not the whole time, right, but a lot, you know, there were two like two separate rooms. Certainly by the time we got to Boy Meets Girl, which was the last episode of the season, so definitely by the end of the season there had been enough divisiveness that there were now two rooms. But keep in mind, everybody would come together in the room to do like final pitches and you know, make it funnier. But a lot of times, you know, the other team was we don't I don't know what they were doing, but we would all come together in the room. When I turned in one of my drafts, he in April met me in Michael's office and um, Michael had notes. Well, they were going to give me notes on my script, and Michael just like goes. I didn't even know what to say. I don't know, I don't know, and he throws my script across the room and goes, this is a piece of blank like that is right, And I'm sitting there like what And April says, Okay, Michael, it's cool, Like let's just sit down and go through the script and give Jeanette notes. Let's fix it, because you know, he's all like like he was kind of nervous, a nervous energy, and he's just like I don't even know what to say, you know, and he April looked at me and she goes, I'm devastated. And she goes, Janet, go back to your desk. I will work with Michael and I'll get you notes. He said, okay, and I left the room. And so she was even protecting you. Absolutely, oh, absolutely absolutely. He was just a dramatic energy, you know. So anyway, yeah, I there. So there were times everybody was in the room and Michael as well. They were definitely different. I mean, April was really a calm force, and we talked about stories or we you know, punched up with script or whatever we did. Hi, I'm Christine Taylor and I'm David Lasher. David and I started in a little show in the nineties called Hey Dude, and now we're teaming up once again. The host of a new I Heart podcast, Hey Dude the Nineties called do you remember the motor rolla flip phone? Do you remember going to Blockbuster? Do you remember Nintendo sixty four? Do you remember getting frosted tips? Was that a serial? No? Its hair? Do you remember a O L instant Messenger and the dial up sound like Poltergeist? Do you remember when we dated? Okay, save that for the podcast. We're going to use Hey Dude as our jumping off point, but we are going to unpack and dive back into the decade of the nineties. We lived it, and now we're calling on all of our friends to come back and relive it. Each episode will rival the feeling of taking out the cartridge from your game boy, blowing on it, and popping it back in as we take you back to the nineties. So listen to Hey Dude the Nineties called on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Did you have any memory of of April tell and not to not to tell April story, but do you have any memory of April telling you that she wasn't coming back to the show. This story breaks my heart. So April had a really handsome boyfriend and that two of them were going to after this long year and a half. Because remember there was the pilot that they were working, and I worked on the pilot with Michael and and um April in the sense of only of course typing it. I was, yeah, I didn't have anything to do with the writing on the pilot, but I was brought in to get it ready and just need the writer's assistanners on it and do that thing. So anyway, at the end of the season, Um Mike Um, after a year of working, April was ready to take a vacation with her lovely boyfriend and she set up to go to France. She'd always wanted to go to France or go back with her boyfriend. And I go, April, I just don't feel good about this. She goes, Jeanette, I've given Michael the list of writers and you and Kennor on it. You're gonna get finally like I been with April ten years. And she's like, You're finally going to get your bump up to staff writer. And I'm like, like, well, you don't believe it until the contract comes over, and I'm like, I just wish you weren't going to France. I wish you'd wait to the contracts. No, no, this is all worked out. Michael has agreed to it. Your names are on the list on his desk, and I said, okay, And you've got to believe April because she knows her stuff. I mean absolutely, So she goes away and I'm probably cleaning up for the season, like getting all the first dress and everything in order, getting all the files in order, doing all the computer stuff, whatever put to We got let go, and we're not on the show. And I sent April a telegram in France to her hotel saying we've been cut, and I'm sure her agent did too. We just got cut. You and April, you mean and Cancuta. So we were cut and that's it, just that simple. That's simple, man. We weren't broke back, so essentially anybody team April was gone. Correct. Wow, brutal. I hate to keep harping on this, but I just I keep trying to picture it because it's, um, it's so sad to me. But you you were cleaning up, getting the season one scripts in order. And then who actually came to you to say, pack up your stuff and don't come back. I don't remember very well. Could have been Michael, It could have been I don't know. I don't remember. All I remember was sending April a telegram. It was traumatic for me. It was I loved the show and I liked what we were doing with it. We were taking it slow. What how old are you in Bend at the time, ten or twelve? Yeah, So what's news to me is that I guess in my mind, I always thought April left. Yeah, I always thought that she was fed up with the show and left, you know, because of the politics and whatnot. I didn't realize that it was actually a a move that had been made, uh you know, putting you know. I mean, I'm assuming that that means that there was a decision made at the network level or Michael just suddenly got more power than he had before and was able to, you know, take over the show. That's so interesting. I never knew that. Oh it's my opinion, and from kind of looking at his past shows that it's sort of a have it just like takes over the show. And as I said, I think when I Meets World could have gone ten years easily if if that, you know, ten eleven year old sweetness twelve got to carry on and play through a little longer and have kid issues rather having been hiding in cause it's wanting to kiss girls and stuff. But that's so funny because that's sort of our experience right now watching the second season, which you know, I've never seen, and we're sort of like, oh, like I think Danielle said, you know, I want the warm, comfy blanket of season one, and I feel the same way. And it's it's jarring. It seems like the show just went from you know, a kids show, a very sweet family show, to something you know, very teenage and adolescent quickly. Um. And then I heard a great I heard a great saying that so encapsulates what we've been talking about. It's perfect, you know, see. And I watched that show alone, and all of the contestants talk about right when they're first put into the wilderness by themselves, they call it drop shock, and so I think we have drop shock from finishing season one and starting and starting season two. It is we're just we're it. It's very jarring. But it seemed like there was a mandate somewhere to clean house. April isn't here. April hasn't hasn't come on the podcast. She's she's declined. We asked her, of course, Um, she declined. But she isn't here to tell us whether or not for a fact, she was let go. Um. She did write us a letter. We read it. We this is from Jeanette's experience. Um, and from you know, what Jeanette saw and witnessed her was a part of herself. But without hearing it directly from April, we don't know for sure that she was let go and didn't just walk away. But from experiences, it seems as though she may have been let go, But we don't know that for for a fact. And in all fairness to also say this, we have to we we are getting one side of the story. Unpacking people, unpacking nikes. We thought the suitcases were empty, and oh my god, there's another bag that was just delivered, just been dropped. I'm curious, though, do you think the listeners care about this stuff? Rearely because because it seems so snarky, you know, it just seems like ide saying you know what, I don't think I don't think it comes across as snarky. I think the reason it's come up is not because we are a gossip podcast. We're absolutely not. It has come up because we have been asking these questions about, so, what happened? You wrote this amazing episode, where did it go? Why did that happen? And then when we would interview other writers, there would be things that were said like, well, you know, April was very political, and April was very this, and we'd go, huh interesting. So then now we've heard that, let's go see, so we're it's literally investigative more than snark. We're not trying to gossip or expose anyone. Like Will said, we were very insulated. So this is like really educational for us. And we also are now looking at the show from the adult eyes perspective, and now we relate so much more to the adults who were on the show and had the real the real work of it, and so it's we're just fascinated by how it all worked. I think I think there's something also that needs to be said, which is we probably would not have any of these questions, any of this knowledge if it was not a show co created by Michael Jacobs and April Kelly. It's literally the fact that she has that credit that this question, because we probably would barely remember April honestly. But but but but all throughout we were always like, wait, why is the show created by Michael and this other person who we don't wear that and we have vague memories of it. And so we would ask that question regularly of the writers of and it was always sort of shoved under the rug or played off as like no, no, no, you know, and on. Like my impression was there was this crazy lady who disappeared, and it was always minimized and always made to be like this person was unusual and weird and didn't actually do anything and didn't actually bring anything to the table. That was always my impression. And it wasn't until we started this podcast that we started going like that can't be the whole story, right, Like she wasn't you know, I just we have this image of you know, we've been told she drove a ferrari and she was crazy, and and like when you look at her record, you're like, well, she actually had an incredible track record in television and the things that you know, the things that she did bring to the show seemed to be really important that we're learning now and so yeah, so it's it's really about, you know, revising the narrative that we've lived with all our all our adults, all our childhood and all our adulthood. And it's kind of important. You know, it feels important to me at least, it doesn't feel snarky. It feels like this is kind of the real history. Um. And I have to say, like, thank god she got that credit, right, Like, if she didn't have that credit, we literally wouldn't know she exists. I don't think. I think it would just be like, oh, you know, because it's hard for us to remember. We don't know all that. We barely knew the writing staff. You know, we know that people that stayed all seven years, um, and we know the people that made themselves important to us who expressed to them. You know, I'm the creator, I did everything. You know that happened a lot. There was a lot of self aggrandizing going on, and um, you know, it's it's just interesting now to be to to to be revising the narrative and realizing like, okay, that was just one person story. Um yea and yeah, so we we also we also said to each other when we started this, we're gonna you know, there's a lot of rewatch podcasts out there, that's a big thing. We're not going to be one of those people that just sit there and watch our show and talk about how awesome it was all the time. We're gonna have the conversations we always have. We're just gonna happen to record them. We're gonna bring on guests, we're gonna talk, and where the conversation leads us is where it's going to lead us. And you know, David Trainer came on and let us in one direction, and other writers came on and let us in another direction. So we're gonna go wherever it goes. And it's one of those things where I think, like any fandom out there, some fans are gonna love it, some fans are gonna hate it. Some fans are gonna think we're ruining the show, some fans are gonna think we're enhancing the show, and it's really just we're we're finding out as much as as we can about the things we didn't know about the show, as well as the audience. So we're just going where it leads us. Frankly, Yeah, and I think, you know, having people on to talk about their experiences is um. You know, not everybody gets a platform, not everybody gets to have it, gets a chance to have their voice heard and to share their experiences. And we understand why some people have said no, thank you, I don't want the opportunity. And then, you know, we're so grateful to people like you who say, yes, I'm scared, I'm nervous, but I do. I want to come on and I want to talk about my experiences. And I think it gives it certainly is helpful for all of us, and I think it helps, um give the listeners a better understanding of what taking TV is really like. Yeah. It's also we constantly say we love Boy Meets World. Yeah we do. We love Boy Meets World. We love the relationships, we love the show, we love the fans, we love everything they brought to the show. This doesn't diminish my love for Boy Meats. I'll speak for myself in any way, shape or form knowing this. It was the seven greatest years of my life. It gave me two of my best friends ever. You know, I love Boy Meats world. Learning about it, learning, you know, growing up and learning that your parents are real people that have a past, doesn't make me love them any less. Um, in a way, it makes me love them more because they're they're real. It's it's it's an experience that certain people at a wonderful time, certain people at a terrible time, certain people were friends, certain people weren't. It makes it more real to me. It doesn't, in any way, shape or form, diminish my love for the show. Um, so yeah, we're going where it goes, because I you know, I don't want it to look like I'm just like no, no, of course not. This was your experience. Yeah, and it was. It was. It was really heartbreaking. It was it was said we loved the show as well. It was April's baby. Um, she'd done a lot of writing and you know, I'm I can't really speak for her, but but I know how much she loved the show. I'm she like I said, she'd done a lot of writing on other people's shows, and it was finally her opportunity to have a show produced and then she was let up. How heartbreaking was that I heard several times coming out of the writer room talking to my own experience, I heard several times come of the rider room. Not gonna say anybody's name, but I heard this quote several times. Women ain't funny. I heard that several times coming out of our writer's room. So it shows in the lack of voice that was given. Again, we we remember two women. One woman that was there the whole time, Susan Jansen almost. I don't think she was there till seven season. She was there till five. Yeah, really she she didn't finish it out. I don't the whole show for some reason. I think she and then these incredibly funny women coming in, like Laura Renalds and Patty Carr, Erica Montalfo, Judy Toll, they came and kind of went, um, I think uh, Laura Reynolds and um uh. Laura and Patty I think finished out the show, and I think Erica Maltafo did as well. But I think Judy kind of came and went Judy told, who was you know a phenomenal writer? Uh so there's yeah, but women ain't funny. I heard that several times coming out of that room. And April is so funny. I mean, yeah, I guess I've said that a hundred times, but she she was so back to April, so she drives the rip. Ferrari. April had wanted a Ferrari from as long as I can, Like I already met her as a Ferrari person. But she told me she'd always wanted one, and when she finally made enough money in Hollywood, she was a good violin and it's good for her for that. I did exactly the same thing. But no, no, it was I wanted a Ferrari, and when I was twenty three, I bought myself one. Nobody know what. He looked at me crazy because I bought my It was like, hey, good for you. Awesome job, kid, Look at that. I can't believe what you got. I wasn't weird for that. I was awesome for that. So it's, you know, that same thing, A total double standard. Um so yeah, it's very strange. Did you I'm sure you did, but I'm gonna ask anyway, did you feel a specific like, um, you had to be scrappier because you were a woman in the room. Absolutely. April taught me that. She's like, hang because I remember I got I got with her back in the eighties, So it was a different world. But it's like, if you're going to hang with these comedy writers, you got to be like you've got to be able to stand up and hang with them. So I could be pretty crass, I must say. So let's talk about what happened after you were fired? What did you do next? What? What was your what was your next move? I took a good I think I took a good year and a half off of doing any shows. Um in ve I guess it was only yeah, it was a bet of here anyway. In the fall of nine, I worked on a show called Grand I worked with another brilliant woman producer, Nancy Lee miyatt Um. She created a show called Social Studies and it was very short lived. Um, but I was her script coordinator and she went on to Living Single, and it was the last season of Living Single. And by this time, I'm I'm going to choot my own horn. I'm an amazing script coordinator. Like I said, I could box in the back in my mind, I could hear the writer's pitching and I could you know, work type on in ten wards minutes, so I could really keep up with their banter. Right, So, um, I got pretty confident, shall we say? And I said to that a dowser, I said, yeah, okay, I'll come on a show, but I want a writing assignment. And and then I had another producer on another line, and they said, well, we'll give you a writing an assignment. So I go back to him that and I go that, so they'll give me a writing assignment too, And she goes, well, listen, that likes to win. That Lee Bowser, she's brilliant. She goes, all right, if we get a back nine on the last season, we'll give you a second script. I'm like another person, all right, came down. There was going on living single, so I spent I think we only did thirteen episodes for the final year. But um, Queen Latifa Kim feels like some really funny, realiant women. Lovely lovely, Queen Latifa so lovely. And then if that created another show called for Your Love on the Warner Brothers Network, and I went on there. That was my last show. I wrote an episode for that, and then that was my last show of the year of my tenure. Um. By then I was over forty, and nobody's funny over forty. But women, like said, are never funny. So um, so I just left. I had my eyes on Boulder, Colorado for a long time, so I just said, that's it. I'm moving to Boulder, Colorado. Are you retired now? I am retired now? Good for you make jewelry and for fun. I don't sell it and I you don't sell it. You're walking away from tons of money, Like, I'll sell it for you. Let me see. Well know what I was thinking is I want to buy some And I'm like, what do you mean? You don't sell it. I haven't seen my jewelry yet. It doesn't matter. I want a piece of you. I'll send you. That's Stair, Daniel. I love it. I'm still unpacking. I'm still unpacking in my head from this whole episode. I've got to be honest with you. I've got drop shock again. Hey there, I'm Hollen Rowden and I am the host of a new podcast called Holler Back Now. Moons Full and Beacon Hills and the Wolves are coming out again. You know me as Lydia Martin from teen Wolf, and on this podcast, we will rewatch every episode from the beginning. So join me and my favorite teen Wolf stars and friends as we reunite the cast, the crew, and the heroes and the villains. We'll be sharing every gory detail with you because as if a hundred episodes wasn't enough, I am bringing you all the behind the scenes. There's gonna be so much more from each episode. Nothing is off limits. And oh that's right, we'll be talking about teen Wolf the movie. I cannot wait. The Wolves are hellen once again. What can I say? So holler back now and join us each week listen to Holler Back Now on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm gonna bring up a subject that is so overdone on this show, so not like a bad thing. I'm seeing like it comes up because it's like this big mystery and and it just comes up, like who came up with the name to do you remember? Yes, it was not Michael Okay, And I asked Ken Couda about it, but he um. I love him. I called him Cuda Bear because I you know, I grew up with him in television basically because he was on Webster and I was on Webster, and then we were on Santizoville Air and then we were on Boy Meets World. I asked him, I said, can that was you who came up with Topanga? And he didn't right back. So um, he's busy with his life and he still writes and stuff. So um, I don't know for sure, but I always thought it was it was him. But the truth be told, whatever episode you were in the first time, is the writer that gets credit for it, Patricia Forrester, So she's probably still getting my understanding. Remember this is just as I recall from the writer's guild, Um, when the character first occurs and then recurs, that person who came up with the name, or that person who first, you know he's going to get the character credit throughout the life of the show. It doesn't always happen, but yeah, and I wonder if she did, because as I recall, she was another really nice person, very um, low key, not a big you know, I want all the acclamates and stuff like that. Yeah. So, looking back now thirty years later, what are your overall feelings about your short time on Boy Meets World. Any time I worked with April, I had a good time, and I learned a lot like we and we and we took it very seriously and we were in the back on show nights writing rewriting jokes that fell on the stage because things fall. You can you can go through all the run throughs, but then when it hits the audience, yeah, right, So we would be back there pitching jokes just in Kate, you know, like if the joke didn't work, and then April would come out and give the the new joke and try it. Then. I loved every minute I'm up, every minute of my time on in television. Every I loved it. I mean, I have stories endlessly that nobody cares about, but I had such a good time. It's such part. It's like you start with a script on Monday, and it's shot on Friday, and there's all these rewrites in between, and then there's also next week scripting punched up and last week scripts being edited, and six months from now we've got it all blocked out, and I mean it's fascinating, so much fun and exhausting. So another reason we've really enjoyed doing this podcast is because we have been able to shine a light on people who don't always get the light. You know, it's very easy for actors to seem like Wow, the stars and yet the people doing the real work, um aren't the ones who end up with the platform. So we have been really enjoying asking people like you to come on and share your experiences and share your stories with us, and let us tell you how appreciative we are for all of the blood, sweat and tears you put into it and your love. Your love for the show was felt, um in in at the very least the two episodes that have your name on them, and um, we just are so appreciative that you're here. It's really kind of thank you so much. It was a pleasure. I'm scared to death, but it was. And that by the way, this was just the rehearsal. We're going to record the next one and take care of yourself. You too, being wonderful. Thank you you too. And it's so great to Sue by Jeanette. I mean, I don't even know what to say. Well, you know, it's it's so funny, Will, when we were talking to her, you said something about, you know, finding out your parents are real people. It does. It's a very similar process for us. You know. It's like, yeah, there's just always myth making uh when you're a kid, you know, and you participate in it, whether it's Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy or the incredibly healthy writing dynamic. That was no politics that's going on in your writing staff on your show, which you know we should have been protected from, and we were, and that was great because we all just had so much fun. Um. But I definitely, you know, became aware of this possibility working on Girl Meets World, you know, when I was directing and finally able to see as much as I understood the directing side of things by that point, it was very eye opening to see that the way the writing side of things and the producing side of things, and the network side of things, it's so much more complicated. It's so much more brutal. It is very political. It's a political machine. Had Girl Meets World never happened, I wouldn't know or suspect any of the stuff, any of it, I would. But I agree that the amount that you were, you saw a lot. I needed a week in the I was like, I'm out, so it's yeah, no, it's um. And again, I I hate I hate that we constantly have to remind people that we love the show. I hate having to do that because we do we we I mean, we love Boy Meets World. And I hate that we keep having to reiterate that because we're learning all this stuff too. And I don't like that we keep having to convince people that we're not here to destroy anything. I think so too. It's just it annoys me that we have to keep going. We love. This is something we love. It's a hugely important and wonderful part of our lives. Um, but that doesn't mean you don't look at it differently, especially when you're an adult, that you go back and you you know, and again it's as Ryder said, it's it's great that we were insulated from all this we needed to be. It would have destroyed our performances. It would have, you know, destroyed our childhoods. It would have been harmle So the adults in this sense did exactly the right thing. They you know, had their adult thing and we had our kids thing. But um, hearing it now can be tough, It really can. Yeah, there's so many changes going into season two, you know, like the show getting older, the sort of nineteen fifties five we've talked about, the complete just discarding of Topanga's character. Um, there are a lot of choices that I now wonder how much of you know, how much of them were a you know, a result of just this purge, how much of them were just you lost a lot of voices. And you know, it's and you know, I'm sure we have a lot of listeners who love season two and forward, and maybe we will love it too for various reasons. But right now it feels like a real shock and I think that that's this is probably indication or it's it's a result of what was going on behind the scenes. Um so it's gonna be interesting to see how how that develops and how it settles. And you know, but I think we will. I was thinking about this. I think we will start to like season two because I remember certain things like the Nancy Carrigan episode and stuff like that that I think are going to be really like season two. I think I'm just uncomfortable with how it aged up so quickly. And then of course i'm you know, there are things that we've talked about, like that sort of uh, male perspective, you know, like where I'm flirting with the teacher, you know, teenage boy. Yeah, but it does seem like the perspective of uh, season two is is a different one. The show is the show has been united around, you know, told through a different lens. Yeah, yeah, well not to not to mix metaphors, but it seems like the mommy's gone now and Daddy's in charge of the show. M hm. So that's just kind of what it what it seems like a little bit to me, so huh. Well, thank you for joining us for this episode of Pod Meets World. Join us for the next one. But you can also follow us on Instagram pod Meets World Show. We you can send us your emails pod meets World Show at gmail dot com and we have merched that's merchandising for sale pod meets the World show dot com. And yeah, thanks for being with us for all the unpacking. Well send us out. We love you all. Pod dismissed. Pod Meets World is an I heart podcast produced and hosted by Daniel Fishel Wilford l and Ryder Strong. Executive producers Jensen Carp and Amy Sugarman, Executive in charge of production, Daniel Romo, producer and editor, Tara sup box producer, Jackie Rodriguez, engineer and Boy Meets World super fan Easton Allen our theme songs by Kyle Morton of Typhoon, and you can follow us on Instagram at Pod meets World Show or email us at Pod Meets World Show at gmail dot com.