On this very special episode, Paul and Skip go on location to the nerve-center of entertainment journalism — TMZ’s studios — to talk to the man behind it all: Harvey Levin! The media mastermind gets personal as he reflects on being a firsthand witness to the assassination of RFK as a teen in 1968. He also opens up about getting his start in the business during the OJ Simpson trial, how he came up with the name "TMZ," and what it takes to run his operation today. (Hint: it involves getting up VERY early in the morning!) Levin also offers revealing insights on the ongoing Diddy headlines, and shares an unforgettable musical moment with Paul.
Our Way with yours truly Paul Anka and my buddy Skip Bronson, is a production of iHeartRadio. Hi, folks, this is Paul Anka.
And my name is Skip Bronson.
We've been friends for decades and we've decided to let you in on our late night phone calls by starting a new podcast.
And welcome to Our Way. We'd like you to meet some real good friends of ours.
You're leaders in entertainment and.
Sports, innovators in business and technology, and even as sitting president or two.
Join us as we ask the questions they've not been asked before, Tell it like it is, and even sing a song or two.
This is our podcast and we'll be doing it our way.
Yeah.
We did a doc on the downfall of Diddy on TV. Look, there's a grand jury right now that has convened and they're looking at sex trafficking among other things. They are bringing some of these alleged victims in and it is not hard for prosecutors to get an indictment, So I think, you know, I would be stunned if he's not indicted.
Hey, welcome back from your latest tour. I still can't get over seven cities shows in seven cities in ten days. I mean, that's it's not like Adele in Vegas, where she's got a residency and she's just sitting in one spot works.
You know.
However, many days a week you traveled all over in the Northeast and into Canada over a period. At ten days, seven shows, everyone was sold out. I mean, I thought you'd be exhausted, but for whatever reason, you're not.
No, I've been doing it for so long. I think once that button's pressed, you do it. Kind of take care of yourself. And I was living out of one place, you know, I was out a Mohican sun and kind of commuting, and then I popped down to New York and you know, lived there at the hotel and drove to a different place. It was cool, you know. I mean it would have been different for ninety days. But once you get your arm around it and realize what it is, and yeah, and the system is there for me. You know, my guys show up. We got a whole crew. I just show up about thirty minutes before I go on and vocalize and walk on stage. You know, I don't spend time in the theater all day, et cetera. But it was cool. It was just great, you know, getting the whole field of the audience again because you know I was an Asia part of that. That was a fifteen hour flight and getting back to normalcy if you it was cool. Yeah, I and you know I love a skip. The bands are just me.
Know that you get you get energy.
You don't lose energy.
From that, I know, get it from.
How's your bourbon doing good?
Yeah, we kind of told you we have a new CEO who's going to be running the company, highly experienced guy. Yeah, we're just sort of repositioning it right now. You know, we're learning as we go. You know, the first built bottle that we came out with, it was a premium, was two hundred dollars a bottle.
So that's you know.
That that's how we won all these awards best New Bourbon because the bourbon is incredible. But we then you know, came out with a second version. But even that's you know, like sixty five dollars a bottle. In the bourbon world, that even that's a lot of money. So we're just talking about new ways to market, new ways to position. But I was going to say, just going back to your show, I love that when I saw the show here in Beverly Hills. Your audience sits there for about twenty minutes before you come out and lead off with Diana. They're looking at a stage with that banner that says, you know, the Our Way podcast, Our Way with Paul Ankin Skip Bronson. That's getting burned right in, burned right into their psyche for like twenty or thirty minutes as they sit there before you come out.
Well, we had thousands of people watching this last tour, you know, and then we got responses, which is kind of cool, and but we're not going to bring well we might just thinking we're going over to Harvey Levins to one, which I'm excited about. I don't know that he drinks, but we could think about dropping a few bottles there for his younger cats there.
Yeah, right right at the TMZ studio. And I know he loves you. I've gotten that feedback already. But there's so many things that I hope we can get them to talk about, particularly the oj You know, he was all over the O. J. Simpson thing long before he became you know, had a quote entertainment show on television. He was all over that Ojay story. And I'd love to get his perspective on you know, how all that went. I think that'd be fun to listen to him on my list. I want to squeeze in did he because they've covered it. I think he had the Uh he did a documentary on it that was the first I think they've done it received it's a follow up on that. And you know, he's only done one podcast. That was the one he did with Bill Maher and that's the only one that he's done, right, So this is pretty cool that because of your friendship with him, we were able to get him to do this. I can't wait to do it.
He's very smart and he really knows his stuff, and it's going to be very unique, I think, Skip. I think we're really really enjoy it. I'm looking forward to going to another space, you know, getting in a room with someone in that unique situation where it's his studio, and I'm sure it's gonna be really well appointed.
I'm not sure how you talked him into doing this, but I'm glad that you did because I think this is going to be a good one.
Well.
The history and I hope we can get him to sing is uh, you know I did get a call when they were rasing about not being able to sing My Way, et cetera. They just reached out of me out of nowhere. You know, sing, you know your song, and you can't sing blah blah blah blah bah bah, I don't. I just went, well, i'll help I'll help you, I'll help him. I took him to Capitol Studios. Turned out to be a big music junkie and loves it all. And I recorded him with My Way, you know, which I wanted to do. Was fulfilling for me, and and that's how it started. So I guess it meant a lot to him. And if we can get him to sing my Way, that would be a great.
Oh, that'd be fun.
That would bet with you, that'd be great.
Yes, all right, something to look forward to him.
Yeah, all right.
Well I'm gonna turn in and uh, I'm going to watch the hockey game. Go Florida, Go Florida, Go Florida. And then I'm gonna finally get some sleep, get ready for tomorrow. See my buddy curly feathers. I'll see them.
Look. Thanks. So, one of the obvious questions getting started, what does TMZ stand for?
TMZ stands for thirty mile Zone, which is so funny. I remember we were trying to come up with a name for this thing, and we were going through name after name after name, and one day, it was a Sunday, somebody said, okay, I got sixty names for you, and they started going through it and they said, at one point thirty I said, hate it, hate it, hate it, hated it.
Hit thirty mile zone.
Because I like the Z, and so we had this whole thing about I want.
I thought, this is the name TMZ.
But there were people at Warner Brothers who were saying that we were owned by Warner Brothers at the time.
They said, now it's going to get confused with the.
DMZ, and it's like who is going to to remember the demilitarized zone.
And so it was a big, long fight, but ultimately.
That was the name in thirty mile Zone.
Thirty mile Zone is actually built into some of the after contracts for actors, and what it means is that if you did a movie within a thirty mile radius of the Writer's Guild at the time, which was around where the Beverly Center was, if you did it within that thirty mile zone, you didn't have to give actors a per diem. You didn't have to put him up in hotels. But if you did it outside the thirty mile zone, then you had to put him in a hotel, you had to pay him a per diem and all. And it's it just was a term that they used in the nineteen twenties and thirties and it went away, but it was in the little part of the after contract and somebody spotted it and said, what about that.
That's how we did.
It, Harve. You're a lawyer, law degree, i am, And how does it evolve into the entertainment business from being a lawyer.
That's that's a long story. I'll do the short version if I can. So I went to University of Chicago Law school and everybody was applying to Wall Street, and I thought, I want to be a legal reporter on TV, and so I sent one hundred resumes out and got rejected by absolutely everybody BLOCKXA Mississippi wouldn't touch me seriously. And so I ended up teaching, and then I practiced, and then I went back to teaching, and the dean of the law school where I was teaching, do you remember proposition thirteen. So this was a big thing where they were trying to limit property taxes in California, and there was a guy named Howard Jarvis who became this big folk hero. And so my Dean was the head of the No. One thirteen campaign, and everybody that he was putting up against Jarvis was getting killed because they were all special interests people. And I'm this like twenty seven year old kid with no you know, living in an apartment. And they said, okay, there're they can't really tag you with anything, so you start debating Jarvis. And I started debating him and we would take it all over the state. And then I got offered a radio show after we lost that election, and I just started getting into media and it just kind of evolved and over many many years, so I did TV, I did TV news reporting, started producing shows. Then one day I went to Mexico and an a Margarita Hayes. I thought, you know, if you do a website and you don't have a time period and you don't have a publishing cycle, you can beat everybody because.
When you get it right, you just get it up.
And it just seemed like such a simple idea, and that's kind of how it emanated.
Now everybody's emulating you or trying.
I don't know.
I mean right, I mean, listen, it's your Broadway. You guys are doing it right. You're all copying and you've just created this incredible, incredible entity that's just part of our lives.
So what I want to know is.
Paul Anka was able to score something big when he was like seventeen years old.
Fifteen fifteen.
It cheated me out of two years.
You beat me by fifty years.
Listen, when you're the writer, you have a shot, right, No, it's all about the writing, you know, It's all about the writing, you know. I remember you know, I think where I read somewhere you really invested as you got into this industry, into the OJ trial, And yeah, I remember that very very much. And Dominic Dunn became a buddy and I loved Dominic, good friend at dinner. I mean, this guy was fascinating. But firstly, tell me about the OJ trial on your experience.
Well, at the time, I was the investigative reporter for KCBS, the CBS affiliate in Los Angeles. Yeah, and so it was my life for two years, and it was the only thing people talk to me about. It was the only thing I did. It was, you know, singular the O. J. Simpson case for over two years. And it's interesting because this is now the thirtieth anniversary of the murders, and I've had all these stories that I've wanted to tell that I really haven't And we did a documentary just on things that happened to me and that happened during the trial and things that I think never made sense that they tried to present. And you know, one of the stories is a week after the acquittal and when he was acquitted in the murder case, I was with a friend at dinner and I was telling her what I thought actually he did, as opposed to what the prosecutor said he did, because I don't think he went over there to murder Nicole.
But that's another story.
So what I told her was I think he went over to slitter tires and there's a reason for that. So I drove her over to Bundy where Nicole lived in the alley, and we pulled up in the alley because I was going to show her what I was talking about. And there's a limo that's parked right by the gate where you would enter the courtyard, and it was an older limo, and I remember I parked behind this limo and I saw the driver lock eyes with me through a side view mirror, and five seconds later, he starts the engine and starts to drive away.
And I remember thinking, there's just something odd about that.
If somebody, why would they leave if I show up?
And it's like, I'm not a cop, And then I started thinking what if?
And so I followed the limo and he's going slow at first, and then I start following the limo and limo starts going faster and I start going faster.
Limo's going faster, and I'm going faster.
Two minutes in, we are snaking around Brentwood and this limo is trying to lose me, and I'm just thinking, I know who's in that limo. And I am following this limo and we are going fast and we get to Sunset and he is able to get a cross Sunset, which is very busy, and I got stuck for a I don't know, fifteen seconds. So I was behind the limo. So I zoomed up a side street and then I turned around and went down Rockingham where OJ lived the limo was right at Rockingham, and I could tell that whoever was there didn't have time to get out, and there was like a standoff for five minutes, and all of a sudden, that passenger door opens as somebody from inside the house opens the gate and I see a guy. I couldn't make out fully his face, but a guy runs into the house.
It was OJ Simpson going back to the scene of the crime.
Wow, and by dumb luck, I'm the guy that just happened to be there.
You were so invested in that obviously, was it two people? Do you think? No? You think it was just him alone.
I'm sure it was just him alone.
And one of the reasons is that it was such a bloody that if anybody else were there, there would be other shoe prints that they would have found in the blood, and they didn't. So for various reasons, he did this alone. Whether he got help afterward, we get into that in this documentary, by the way, which is on two B and it's called TMZ presents Oj how he really did it?
So tell me we think of this.
So I know one of the lawyers that was on his defense team, Should I say his name?
Sure?
He's no longer with us. Howard Weitzman.
Howard was a very good friend of mine and he.
Was my lawyer and friend. And I kept asking him. I said, well, look, well, obviously he did it right. And he always would change the subject and I said, look, he did it. I mean, obviously he did it. It's very clear that he did it right. Kept changing the subject. Before he passed. I said, look, Howard, come on, I mean, obviously he did it.
He said, skip. They framed a guilty man. You feel about that.
How would they frame the guilty Well, because.
They planted evidence.
They didn't plan well that that was that was but that was the allegation, right, I mean, that's.
What they ridiculous. It was ridiculous.
Johnny was Johnny was one of the He's the best trial I've ever seen.
Howard.
You know what really happened with Howard because one of the people in my documentary is his wife, Margaret, And the reason Howard left the case was Margaret said, we don't have blood in our driveway, and if you don't leave this case, I'm going to divorce you.
That's why Howard left.
Wasn't one of the most important people though.
The woman who was the jury expert, the one who Joellendrius Joe Demetrius, right, Joellen.
Demetrius, one of them pury right, Yeah, she knew how to pick a jury.
But Johnny was yeah.
I mean look, Johnny was a friend as well, and we had disagreements for over this case. I was, I don't know, I mean look, I saw this coming like a freight train. And Johnny played to the downtown jury where the black community rightly was deeply, deeply suspicious of the l a p D because the things the LPD did in South Central and elsewhere. But the idea that the DA they should have. They could have tried this guy in Santa Monica, which is where he lived. That was his world, and the DA wanted control over the case and he worked downtown, so they brought it downtown.
Which was deadly, deadly. That was why he was acquitted.
Love, Love don't fit. You must have quit. That was a turn.
And who gives an actor a glove to pretend like they can put it.
On or not? My god, that was it.
That was a turn.
But that glove was not planted.
But here's what's unbelievable. You you in the right in the thick of that. You were at the Ambassador Hotel when Robert F. Kennedy was shot?
Yeah, also another in the elevator going on.
No, I was actually a high school student still, but I was the head of students for Kennedy in LA and I was just deeply involved in this campaign.
I just loved him.
I went to the Ambassador and I actually ended up in an elevator at one point in the evening. And I don't even remember why, but Ethel Kennedy was there. I think two of their kids were there. And Rosie Greer was there and he helps subd Sir Han after the shooting.
It was horrible.
It was just like, if there's anybody I ever idolized, it was Robert Kennedy.
Well, where were you when the actual shooting was in the ballroom? In the ballroom.
Never forget that, No, never ever. No, It's like Kennedy, It's like his brother. I was in Poland getting ready to go on stage when his brother was assassinated. I'm sitting in a dressing room with the head of UPI and I'm listening to this little radio in the corner, and I'm doing an interview, and I could hear over the radio, and the president arrived in Dallas at d d D he was shot. You know, when you're in Poland and you leave this country where we've got it all over there, you got one bathroom per flora a hotel, you're remote. And I looked at the guy Thompson UPI I said, I think our president has just been shot. What do you mean we're over huddled around this little radio with armed forces radio with limited vocabulary. And sure enough I walked on stage crying the folks, I can't do the show. I'll come back one day. And I left the country. It's something I'll never ever forget.
You know.
I got to tell you because I was thirteen, and there's such a thing as a para social experience where everybody has this shared experience. And it used to be like the you know, the town square where everybody would get together. But you know, we're too big for that in the United States. But that was the single biggest para social experience I've ever had in my life. And I remember everybody in this country was glued to the TV all weekend long, and you know, you could not walk away from that television set. And then to see le Harvey Oswald get shot, you know, and just to watch the funeral and everything else. It was the one time in my lifetime that really felt like this entire country was one that everybody was doing the same thing at once.
You know.
You know, I lived through the Bobby thing with Bobby Darren. Did you run into Buck? He was so supportive. He changed his old life and dedicated Robert Kennedy. He took it very badly. Bobby moved up to Big sur or something, but he was hit, really devastated.
It was terrible.
Yeah, And you know, and you know what I admired so much about him was he didn't need to do this. I mean, he was a rich man, he had power as a senator, he was Attorney general. He didn't need to do this, and he knew the consequences because of his brother. And yet he not only did this, but he was so passionate. I remember, I mean, I will never forget the Knight Martin Luther King died.
How he addressed that crowd.
And explained it to them and and created this kind of calm that I just remember thinking, he is just a remarkable human being.
I saw the emergence of it even in Vegas when Kennedy would come out and the mob and that whole thing morph into that where they just drop Frank and the guys. And because they were very sincere about what they wanted for this, Bobby was special.
Did you did you know Marilyn Monroe back then?
I can't profess to Nora well, but I saw her socially with the.
Guy, but you never saw her with Kennedy.
No, we all heard what was going on, right because back then there's no media driven society, and we were all carrying on and I'm going the kid in the middle of the saying do I give this money back to? But I saw everything going on. You heard all the stuff. You heard all about Exner. You heard about Marlon and the guys and Kennedy coming in, and you know they took care of him.
They party got Judith Campbell Exner. I haven't thought of her and so.
Oh she she was molmost Yeah, you know, they take her to Washington and there's a door over there. It's called the back door. It exists today where they'd bring everybody into this back door into the White House. But Excener was he squeeze FORFK?
So on the Kennedy topic. Do you know Bobby Jr.
I do.
As a matter of fact, we had him on our We had him on our show four or five days ago.
He's an interesting guy.
Yeah, there are obviously things I don't agree with, but you know, he also he was an environmental lawyer for a long time.
He's a complicated guy. Personally. I really like him.
And you know, some of the things that I like about him is that I love that he challenges people. And you know, I don't agree with all of his views, but just the fact that somebody can stand up these days and challenge things. It's why I love Bill Maher so much, is that, you know, Bill Maher is not afraid to challenge all sides. And everybody is so scared to talk these days, and so scared to express any point of view because right now, you say anything, and half the country's gonna hate you, right And Bill doesn't care. And I don't think Bobby cares that much either. I think he's saying what he believes. And I don't think you need to agree with everything somebody says, but the fact that they're strong enough to say it in this culture, I think really means something.
And then Bill Burr, Yeah, I mean Bill's a variation of that too. I love Bill Burr. He just tells it like it.
Is, Yeah, And people are afraid to do that now. They're just you know when you look at you know, look at.
Diddy that you know, I want to talk to you about that, and we will.
But I mean, you know, it's interesting how silent Hollywood has been about that, you know, given that people will jump on other things that are not nearly as momentous as what we now see, but for some reason, they're really silent on that.
People are just running scared in life.
And that's one of the things I've seen in this job is that it's just amazing that people are afraid to take any stand.
So people who take a stand.
You've got to respect that part of it, even if you disagree with their votes.
Telling Skiff might take on it all today, I said, you know, it's become unlike something I've never.
Seen, right, Oh, it is so tribal.
It is tribal. And if people just embrace and understand that it is tribal.
Well, and the other thing too is and this is to me so incredibly unhealthy that that people have just sunk into their own little silos. And so if you are a liberal Democrat, you only watch MSNBC. You know, maybe CNN, but you and if you're a you know, magar Or's conservative Republican Republican, you watch Fox. And if anybody has ever watched both, you know, within the same hour or back to back an hour each. It's two completely different views of the universe. And you know, neither is telling the full story, neither is painting a real picture. I mean, they're advocates, but that's not the way we should be consuming news.
And that's the way people are consuming news now.
It's through advocacy, and I think that is one of the reasons people just hate each other, why it's become so tribal, because you have a situation now where you know, if you are in this camp, this camp is crazy and evil because all you've gotten is information and making that case and vice versa. Yeah, and I just think that's so dangerous and it's so damaged our country.
And the heart of it for me is those people out there that are looking at it, they don't take time to get to the source what it really is.
I think that's really true.
They're not doing their homework to get to the source.
They don't want to. I don't think they want to.
It's easy, it's easy to listen to allies. It's harder to listen to people with whom you disagree.
So James carp is a very good friend of mine. He's been in town this week. We had dinner together, and he has very strong opinions on you know, and Bien. I mean, he's a Democrat obviously, but he's worried. And somebody there was at a dinner I brought him to a dinner party and somebody asked them, well, why don't they want to Why don't they listen to you? Because they don't want to hear anything that does not comport with what their belief is.
Like, they believe that Biden is the guy. They don't want to hear anybody tell him. You don't be there. We got to pivot and go to somebody else. That's a big part of the problem too.
People just don't he James Carvell on one of the cables not too long ago and made that he made that point and they literally let him go and then dismissed him as a kook. And look, it's a discussion worth having that if you're a Democrat and you want to win, this is a discussion worth having.
But you're not allowed to have the discussion.
But you know what, he made it an interesting point. He said, the Democrats have a deep bench, you know, Governor Basher, the governor of Shapiro in Pennsylvania. Wretch and Whittmer somewhat arguet Gavin Nuss, Well, I mean, you know, so, I mean there's a deep bench. It's not like, oh, well, we have to do this because we don't have anybody else. There are plenty of other people that you know, that could effectively run.
But it's a scary time right now.
And like you know, Bill Mars says.
Bill Mars raised that same thing and said, look, he said, I'm I'm going to vote for Biden, but he is deeply worried that this is going Look what I'm wondering about, and it's funny you mentioned Robert Kennedy, is whether we're going to have a replay of nineteen sixty eight at the Democratic.
Convention in Chicago.
And that cost Democrats the election in sixty eight, and I think Chicago is the backdrop now for something similar that you're going to see protests in the street, You're going to see protests inside the convention.
Things could get out of hand.
It feels like this is going to happen, and that cost the Democrats the presidency in nineteen sixty eight.
Very well, be right, Let's see how it plays out the circus. Let's see if it even is going to be Biden.
You know, it's funny there are people that have kind of raised that at this point, I don't see how that shifts at this point.
I just don't see how that.
The whole protest thing is so different now. Freedom of speech is one thing, but building encampments and you know, trying to take over buildings at colleges. You know, it's gotten, it's gotten so ugly right now. It's just there's more anger. Peggy Noonan wrote in Trust in Common. I don't know if you read Peggy Noonon, but last week were she talked about the hatred that everybody has for everybody.
It's not a good not a good place that we're in right now.
Yeah.
I mean, look, when when I was in college that was right in the middle of the Vietnam protests, and there were buildings that were taken over there, and you know this was also where the students were the ones who had there were direct consequences because they're the ones getting drafted.
I kind of have a different view of this that look.
I mean, I have a lot of emotion about what's going on in Palestine right now because it's just beyond heartbreaking to see the devastation in Gaza and you know, thirty thousand Palestinians killed, you know, and yet when people are protesting that, I get it. But when people are embracing essentially exterminate the Jews, which a lot which there is a contingent doing that there, and those people are getting embraced that a professor I believe at Cornell talked about October seventh, is exhilarating.
It's like what has happened? You know?
Sick?
Yeah, very sick.
Not a good commentary about this country and leaving Asia as I did a few weeks ago, and hearing of the periphery and people over there, they are totally laughing and disgusted with us. Yeah, that's a new power pocket. But let's get let's pivot.
To a happier point.
Okay, yeah, what about you for a minute, Yeah, so Paul and I laughed. Because Paul's a nocturnal person. I'm an early morning person. I thought I was an early morning person because I'm up at five.
In the morning until somethive in the morning. Is somebody somebody said to me, we want to hear what you do. I said, skip, hold on, he's up at three in the morning.
I said, it's perfect, I said, because he gets up at the time Paul goes.
To bed, right, So this is the perfect fit.
No, what's what's your schedule? You get up at two, four or five? And I'm looking at folks, I'm looking at a body here just stopping.
No, I tell me it's not great.
I mean, you know, give me because you don't want to get up there.
Who does you do? No, I don't you got an empire going here?
I would do it.
No, it's I work on the website for about a half hour, and then I work out. I work out at home and in the gym, and then I go I have a gym at home, and then I go to a proper gym, and then I go to a different gym and then I swim and I get here by six o'clock.
So and the day ends.
The day ends at five thirty six, and then I go to bed at seven.
Okay, tell me what your diet is, because you look great. What I'm a funny eater. I mean, I've lived like this all my life. I want to hear what you know.
I'm not like crazy when it comes to like counting. I don't count calories or anything like that. Yeah, I mean, honestly, the magic for me is swimming. Swimming is such great exercise with you on that and it new or we always I've been doing it for twenty years and it lecks for me at least, it creates a certain thing in my metabolism or whatever that makes it easier to pretty much. I mean, I don't like eat a lot of sugar and sweets and things like that. And I'm not I'm not crazy when it comes to diet.
Yeah, you're a cold plunge guy.
I am a wuss.
I would do I didn't scan they back in the fifties.
One time, one time I did it over.
No, But that's the that's the thing now, right, Yeah, I know that dead mind.
Let them have it.
Let them have it.
Exactly.
And then what we used to do with the guys in Vegas and with the mob guys used to take a basket, put ice in it, attached the basket with the ice to the head of the shower, you stand under it, and that was enough.
That was years old.
That was my cool bats Right, Let's get the ditty, Yeah, I mean, I love the first dock.
Right.
We did a doc on the downfall of Ditty on two B.
Where do you go from here with?
Well, look, I mean I look, there's a grand jury right now that has convened and they're looking at sex trafficking among other things. They are bringing some of these alleged victims in and it is not hard for prosecutors to get an indictment.
It's just not hard.
The defense doesn't have the right to go in and present in anything, and I'm not sure what they're gonna they would present at this point. So I think, you know, I would be stunned if he's not indicted. That's just you know, if they got a search warrant already to search warrants, and so getting a search warrant means a judge has already found there's probable cause he committed a crime. So now the issue is, well, the grand jury think there's a reasonable chance of securing a conviction. And you know when the prosecutor has already gone to the judge and the judge a signed off and they've already seized all of his equipment and videos and computers and everything else. I would be stunned if he's not indicted. I don't know, but I would be stunned if that doesn't happen at this point and he's in trouble. And this Cassie video unbelievable, you know, and there are people, there are people who have talked about this, but very few. There's a woman Aubrey O Dat who was in making the band. She was in Dannity Kane, and she's been talking about this for years and she's been a lone voice, and people dismissed her as a kook. And then if you look at did he you know, these were rumblings were going on forever. But you go and look at video of parties he threw, and every big star in the country is at these parties, and nobody would listen either. I don't know that they didn't listen because everybody heard the rumblings. But you know, Abriode was just one of the few people who would just speak out about it. And now that all of this has surfaced, so many people are we talked about this a minute ago, so many people are silent, and you got to wonder why are they so silent? And you know, I think part of it is nobody knew he had videos that he was taking of everything. And that doesn't mean people did things that were necessarily wrong. But I don't think they want to be seen in the middle of all of it. And so I just find the reaction from Hollywood is kind of anemic.
But this won't surprise you. We've all seen this before. So the place where I go for my physical therapy, I've had a bunch of surgeries, compliments of Neil Elatroje, best in the business, best and the best anywhere. And I go to a place for physical therapy and I was in there one day and on the next table there's Diddy. This is not long ago. This is about two weeks before he was busted. And I introduced myself. I said, Hi, I'm Skip Bronson, and I said we have a mutual friend, and I mentioned a friend.
The nicest guy in the world, right.
I mean, just the very calm, Really, what what are you in here for?
You know, what are you working on?
You know home, You've been coming to this place just you know, just not like a monster, is what I'm saying.
So, so'sild addage. You meet somebody, you're meeting their representative exactly.
I mean, right, I mean everybody's got different dimensions, but what he his different dimension? I mean when you look at that Cassie video, it is just it's mind blowing.
That's exhibits A, B and C.
Right, Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see whether you know, it really depends on what they charge him with whether the judge would allow that in because what happens in a trial is every piece of evidence by definition is prejudicial. You're trying to sway a jury one way or the other. But at a point, if it becomes so prejudicial that it outweighs any real value it has in getting it the truth, a judge won't let it in. And this is so incendiary, I wonder if the judge will allow it or not.
But these stories like for you, who are the guests that are sort of like the gift that keeps on giving, Like the people that.
People have asked that it's not that simple. There can be somebody who comes out of the blue that nobody knows.
Gypsy wrote Gypsy Rose. You know this.
No Gypsy Rose, You're no, I'm talking no, I'm talking about Gypsy Rose Blancheford, who is whose boyfriend killed her mom and she ended up doing prison.
Well who would think.
But now she's a big celebrity that everybody follows. So it's not you know, I mean, the Kardashians, you know, have been around from the beginning.
But Britney spears, right, I mean.
Britney spears. Is is a tragic story.
But it's an annuity, right, I mean, she just keeps coming and coming.
I you know, I honestly I don't look at her that way I have. I've only met her once and there are you know, the free Britney people hate me because you know, I have said for a long time that this conservatorship had real value and she probably would be dead if there wasn't a conservatorship back in two thousand and seven. She was in that bad of shape and I think just the fact the way it ended, I'm not saying that her dad was the right person to continue it, but she had a structure, and she was taking her meds and she was solvent, and she was relatively stable, and I know she was unhappy being in it, and that's bad. And maybe by getting a different conservator that would help. But now she has no structure, and she is not taking her meds, and she is in a deep, deep, deep hole just in terms of her emotional and mental state. And she's isolated and she doesn't have friends and it is dire, and everybody around her that we've spoken with has told us the same thing.
And she is in real trouble right now.
It doesn't have friends. But is it fair to say she has a huge fan base?
Yeah, but what does a fan base do when it comes to taking her meds? What does a fan base do when it comes to giving her the kind of real emotional support or a doctor who can help, you know, those are things that the fans who were saying free Brittany, Free Brittany never talked about her mental illness. Never heard a single person that I heard, at least, you know, talk about the.
Reason she was in it in the first place.
That she has a really serious mental illness, no fault of hers, but she has it. And now the question is what do you do in a situation like that? And I just feel just personally, I see this happening, and it's it's really tormenting because I just really fear something really bad is gonna happen.
Are you any big will, big whale that you haven't really done anything on or that you want to Is there somebody out there that you'd really like this?
Sitt?
Oh my god, I mean there are a million people that will let me.
Give me three who you're curious about it?
I'm really you know, I'm really curious about Michelle Obama. I'm so curious about Michelle Obama, and I'm curious about it for all sorts of reasons.
I have a friend who went to.
Harvard Law School with her and was just telling me how remarkable she was. But I just think she has such an interesting worldview, and I know her husband's worldview, and I'm into it. But you know, she's a person who could be president if she wanted to.
I don't think.
She hates politics.
You don't think last minute?
No, No, really, she hates it. She hates it.
And you know, I've read her book and I've read books about her, and I'm fascinated by her.
And to that point, they have a perfect life. Why give that up their life right now?
You're going to put in her time?
Yeah, they did it, been there, done that.
And you know it was rough for her and you know when he was in the state legislature, she was taking care of the kids alone. I mean they talk about this, you know, in different books, about how difficult it was for them. So she's really put in her time, and she had an uneasy time in.
The White House as well.
But I'm just fascinated by her, and I really do think she could be president if she wasn't.
I think so listen to these politicians when you look historically, they have a needle up their arm. They never quit.
But she's not one. No, But which is one of the reasons that fascinating.
Yeah, yeah, I still think she's the long shot. I don't know why. I just think somewhere, you know, as intelligent as we all sit with intelligent people, to realize there's another backstory agenda going on with those in power that you have no ideas going.
That's true, but she's not. She doesn't have that needle in her arm. That's what makes her really interesting. She I mean, think about it that she cares.
She totally cares.
But the idea that all of these people are just would do anything to become president of the United States.
She could be, but isn't doing it. I find that really interesting.
And she's from you know, she's in a family where politics was kind of a core, yet she wants nothing to do with that and she does care.
And I just find that really fascinating.
Well besides her, Yeah, we else would you like that?
I can't give you like a name where I say I'm just dying to there. There aren't that many people honestly, you know, the way I cover things and the way we cover things at TMZ, you know, we we follow people over the years, and I you know, when I was talking about Robert Kennedy, he was so special because that's the kind of person that I'm just so drawn to, you know, But there just aren't a lot of people like him around these days.
Is there is there anyone that any any story, anything that you did that you'd like to take back? Is there one that you built?
I mean, I don't I don't want to say take back.
Well, you know what I'm saying that you wish hadn't occurred.
Or.
You know, I honestly, and I know this sounds like I'm skirting it, I don't look back that way.
And I'll tell you why.
What we do here, I mean, we have a big newsroom. We have two hundred people, you know, in the organization, and I don't have an office. So I'm in the middle of the newsroom and always have been. And we always have arguments and discussions and debates and consensus, and you know, we we really talk about we want to be fair, and that's what I care that people see that at least we are trying to be fair and accurate and honest. And once you feel like you've done that, I don't look back that much. I mean, I just don't, because, first of all, it's hard to constantly look in the past when you've got so many things to do in the present. But you know, you do your best, and you know and and if you make a mistake, you correct it.
That's the best you can do.
But as long as you really been honest and you've tried hard, and we do and look and you know, people can say what they want and they may like what we do, and they may not like what we do. But what I care about is at least if they believe that we've been honest about our approach in it. And that's to me, what's paramount.
But you're so many things. You're an investigative reporter. There's so many things that are going on here. So my question paparazzi a necessary evil, Well, you.
Know, we scaled back on that.
I mean, we used to have twenty some people out you know, all over the country who work directly for you or yeah, because we didn't want to rely on people where they weren't. You know, we we have a handbook of things, rules they have to follow where you're not supposed to chase people, and all sorts of other things, and so we've kind of scaled back on it years ago, where you know, we've kind of evolved. I mean, I think we're different than we were when we started. Paparazzi have been around since the beginning of entertainment, and you know, there are people I'm not going to tell you who, but I remember the story about somebody who you all know, a famous person who would take a music express a limo to the airport and this person would ask the driver to go around the airport three times so she could apply her makeup and so be good, knowing that there were paparazzi there. And then when she'd get out of the car, she'd look and say, oh, paparazzi, And so yeah, I mean, look what you know, people, They it all feeds on itself. I mean when you look at what's going on right now in entertainment, everybody is buying for a little piece of the pie right now.
I mean it's hard.
To get publicity when it comes from all directions. Now, it could come from streaming. It'd got movies and songs and you know, just celebrity and reality and all this stuff. So to get attention and maintain a level, you need it and.
They need it.
So I always tell people there are five restaurants in LA where you know there are paparazzi, and then there are thousands of restaurants where you know there aren't. When you see big celebrities going to one of those five restaurants, they know the drugs.
They know what they're doing.
Yeah.
Hervey Dominic Dunn, it was a dear friend of yours and who I loved. When I see him socially, tell me how he influenced you. Oh, and the daughter with that whole.
With Dominique, with he was, he had a profound influence on me. And I watched him, you know, for people who don't know his daughter, Dominique was strangled to death by a guy named John Sweeney, who was the manager at Mo Mason Restaurant, which was the big restaurant in town at the time.
And the trial was a travesty of justice. It was.
It would make your blood boil to know about this. We did a documentary on this called Death of a Movie Star. It's on Hulu, remember, and what the judge did in that case I think is unforgivable. John Sweeney had tried to strangle and beat and sent to the hospital other girlfriends, and one in particular, wouldn't let her testify. There were all sorts of things that went askew there, and he ended up just serving a couple of years, and it really.
Devastated dominic and his family.
And I watched him pick himself up and then decide, because there was a point. He told me he was up in the mountains and he thought about suicide, and he got himself together and then decided he was going to be an advocate for victims, and he really devoted a lot of the rest of his life to that and it was so moving to watch the way he did it, and he did it with such integrity.
And he was also just such a.
Smart, funny, engaging guy who you just loved. I mean, you knew him, he loved loved being around that. I'm he is just somebody that is in.
My heart still.
Are you friendly with Griffin?
I'm friendly with Griffin.
I Griffin was in the documentary that we did and he his book just came out, and he's a great guy. He's just a great guy. Dominic was so proud of him. He's a great guy.
So on weekends, because you're is it fair to say you're a workaholic during the week Yes, okay, so on weekends you're not a workaholic?
Are you working on the weekends? Also?
Yeah, I mean we've got you know, this is a tough business now, and this is a business where I think you know, there's there's a guy that started TMC with me. His name is Jim Perritorre, who is tragically but Jim used to always say, you grow or you die. And you've done this in your career. I mean, you've actually been a role model for me. I really mean it. You've been a role model for me to see what you've done for as many decades and to see how relevant you've stayed and how you've pivoted and changed with the times.
I just have so impressed with your life.
And you know, in my field, television is not going to get bigger.
That's just not the way people are consuming things now.
So it's not like you can just say, oh, I'm just gonna do television because television may go away, and even you know digital that you know, things are you know, challenging when it comes to ad revenues. They're challenging for everybody. And so how do you maintain and grow a business. We use start documentaries and you do other shows, and you do a bus tour of the city and you you know, we do all sorts of things and you then pivot to TikTok. But you've got to do that. So it's created an enormous amount of work. So I remember when I graduated from law school, I went down to Miami for a year to teach law school before I came back to California, and there was a guy that I knew who I remember where he said it, and we were talking one day and he looked at me and he said, I want to give you some advice.
Don't live for the weekends.
And I remember thinking, wow, that's really true, that you don't just live on Saturday and Sunday, but you've got to live well.
Not only did they give up the weekdays.
AI?
It's hard.
Can AI changed this for you? You think AI is going to have any impact.
Then I think AI is going to have an impact on humanity everything.
But how does it impact your business?
I think it's going to impact every element of life absolutely, and including relationships. I mean, I think you know the movie Her, there will be people in the not too distant future who will have relationships.
With absolutely absolutely absolutely lookout.
I mean it's already happening where you know.
You look at gen Z and I think they have lost their ability to communicate. That when you text all the time and you're not face to face with people and everything is what you write, what you type on your phone, and you've devalued communication and even devalued relationships, that it's only a matter of time before all of a sudden, well you can get a Scarlett Johansson type on you know, your computer who will talk to you and tell you what you want to hear, and they will eventually be able to even create what appears to be emotion in these people.
And I think you're going to see that.
Only the second inning. We're in the second in the seconding at best, absolutely at best.
And it will affect every element of life, including obviously entertainment. And now the big thing is, you know, we interviewed somebody the other day about you know, was it Ashton Kutcher was talking about doing movies with AI and we interviewed a movie critic who was talking about how bad that was and you know why? And I said, look, I said, it's going to happen, and if it really is bad, consumers aren't going to bite. But if they do bite, you're not going to be able to put that horse back in the barn.
And I think that's what's.
Going on in all over the you know, in every area of life. AI is going to be more transformative than the Internet.
Totally agree. I think people will be working three days a week. Corporate and government.
Will what are they going to do?
They'll give them the money and they won't care if they'll go and spend it. You cannot keep a labor force five days a week. They don't want it. I think government and corporate, all profits, everything changes the numbers, and to be happy to give them the money and you'll see a three day work week and they'll go out and spend it, and they'll just keep creating it.
My friend own's office buildings in New York. He said, Skip, we've lost Fridays. We're trying to save Mondays because that's where it is. But to get back to something Paul.
Asked you about, is there a white whale guest? If you ever.
Interviewed Elon Musk, if you're regning with him.
I almost did.
I had a show called Objectified where I interviewed famous peep and.
I can't tell the story. I just there are certain things.
Wait, you outed me when you made me tell you the name of the lawyer on the OJ thing, and well I can't tell.
I we can edit.
Elon said that he was going to do my show. Elon was at a point and I went to SpaceX and we had lunch and we talked about stuf and whatnot, and.
Shortly before we were going to do it. He got upset with me over he was interested in a story.
That I was just not comfortable talking about that involved things that we had been told off the record about something unrelated to and he told me off in a big way one.
Night on the telephone. And that was my last conversation with Funny.
So you said, you don't believe in the cold plunge? Do you sing in the shower?
He loves his music.
No, I'll tell you why I don't sing in the shower because I swim at a public pool and I shower in the rinse pool.
And if I started singing.
At the rins pool where everybody's swimming, I'd be drunk bad in that pool.
Because that I want you to sing with Paul. I think that'd be well.
Paul and I have history.
Yeah, we have big history. I got the phone call, you know, regarding My Way and get Harvey sing blah blahlah blah blah. I love Harvey and I love the show and I'm a big fan. He said, Hey, how do you want me to fit in with However? I'm there. Bottom line was he shows up, We do My Way a song that he likes, and that was it.
Wait a minute, wait a minute, that was it. He took me to Capitol Records.
I said that the studio.
Yeah, that was like the most exciting thing of my wife that I went into Capitol Records and and Paul says, this is the microphone Sinatra used to sing My Way, And just to be in Capitol Records with the history of the Beach Boys and the Beatles and all that him, it was like, oh my god, it was like the most exciting thing in my life.
So we're setting you up, darling. I want to do a duet with you.
We did.
We did this, Bill Barr. He's saying, I've got you under my skin, and some of our guests love to sing. I want to do my Way with you as a duet today.
Down, I'm up. But I'm so out of practice.
We don't have to practice. Okay, this is in practice. I think it would be very you.
Know, I embarrassed myself enough already. Well that what the heck of tea. It's not gonna make my voice any better?
Okay, And now.
The end is new, and so I face the final curtain.
My friend. I'll say it clear.
I'll state my case of which I'm certain.
I live.
A life that's full.
I've traveled each.
And every highway, but more, much more than this, I did.
It my.
Way.
Regrets I had a few.
But then again too few to mention.
I did what I had to do.
And saw it through without exemption.
I'd plum each charter chorus, each scuffle, stuff, long life, spy way.
And poor. Much more than this, I did it my way.
Yes, there were times I'm sure you knew.
When I bit off more than I could choose, but drew it off when there was doubt.
I hate it up and spit it out. I faced it all, and I stood tall.
And did it.
I loved, I laughed and cried.
I've had my film.
My share of losing, and now it's tears subside.
I find it all so amusing.
Just to think.
I did all And may I say, yes you not in a shy way?
Oh no, no, not me.
I did it my.
Way.
For what is a man?
What has he got him?
Not himself.
That he has not.
To say the.
Thing he truly did, and not the world's alond.
Record.
And what.
Harvey loving folks?
Whoa that was cool? So fun?
First, folks, drop.
Drop the mic. I need a cold Plunge.
That was so fun.
The job.
Oh my god, I love that way.
You've got a great boy. No, please heat.
Throat. This was so much fun.
That was so Thank you so much.
We loved, love, loved it. I appreciate you taking.
Are you kidding?
Jordan, our producer wanted me to ask what your greatest achievement was.
Well, now we know.
This was maybe the most fun. Honestly, going to Capitol Records that night was one of the highlights of my life until now, highlights of my life.
It was so fun, pleasure.
And somebody because it all started because people were giving me shit that's right about singing My Way? And he called up and he said, I'm going to show them that's right.
And we did, Okay, I'm gonna get your work.
Go ahead.
Our Way with Paul Anka and Skip Bronson is a production of iHeart Radio.
The show's executive producer is Jordan Runtogg, with supervising producer and editor Marcy Depina.
It was engineered by Todd Carlin and Graham Gibson, mixed and mastered but a wonderful Mary Dean.
If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave us a review.
For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite show.
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