The tennis icon weighs in on the Pickleball craze (spoiler: he is not a fan), recalls the time David Bowie shaded his guitar skills (even after lessons from Eddie Van Halen!) and reflects on his long journey from sports bad boy to good family man — thanks to some help from his wife, rock star Patty Smyth. But don’t worry, Mac still has some of his famous fire! Though he’d be fine never hearing his infamous “You cannot be serious” catchphrase ever again, he explains how his anger made him a better player — until it didn’t.
Our Way with yours truly Paul Anka and my buddy Skip Bronson, is a production of iheartrating.
Things sort of fell into place for me where I got these chances that a lot of people don't even get. So it dawned on me a little bit, I was saying earlier with the art gallery, I was like, wait a minute, I got to shift back to this tennis because I was fortunate and I want to give other kids. My ultimate dream would be a kid from Harlem to win the US Open. That came from my academy. So that goal to try to, you know, give as many kids as possible a chance has sort of become my, you know, lifelong mission at this point.
Hi, folks, this is Paul Anka and my name is Skip Bronson. We've been friends for decades and we've decided to let you in on our late night phone calls by starting a new podcast and.
Welcome to Our Way. We'd like you to meet some real good friends.
Of us, your leaders in entertainment and.
Sports, innovators in business and technology, and even as sitting president or too.
Join us as we asked the questions they've not been asked before, tell it like it is and even sing a song or two.
This is our podcast and we'll be doing it our way.
Hey, what's happening?
Hey skipped you're on the course. Did you tell me you're playing with Mike today?
I played golf with them yesterday. He hasn't been playing golf that long, but this won't shock you. He's gotten really good in a short period of time. Because people take up the game of golf late in life or later in life, it's really hard to be good, even professional athletes, believe it or not. But he's really taken to it. He loves to play golf. But the other thing that he really loves is music. Man, oh man, does he love music? And he really I no want to talk to you about it.
I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, I've kind of been clued in on that for a few years. If i'd known, you know, I'm going to bring it up to him, or maybe he'll open the door. I don't know. But Jimmy Connors, I knew. I know those two guys were at each other, but I would have had him on the record that I produced for Jimmy Connors. Can imagine him on guitar and Jimmy singing. Would have been so cool. But I'll get into it if I see a door. I'm looking forward to it because I'm I admire the guy for what he's done with his life. You know a lot of those guys make that evolution into where he's at. And when you listen to him, he's fantastic as a broadcaster. He knows his sport and he's hisself.
Yeah, he spoke at Stanford, his alma mater.
He gave a commencement address and he spoke about pivoting and you know, look what a pivot this is. The guy went from being the greatest tennis player in the world to arguably the greatest tennis broadcaster broadcaster in the world.
I mean, what an incredible moved at us has been.
And I love that he can be be himself. He's always very forthcoming and truthful in no matter negative positive. He lays it the way it is and you agree with him, and not many guys can get away with that just because of who he is. He's very cool. How you doing, How you doing with your bourbon and your bourbon business?
Good? Good? You know, we have a new guy running the company who were excited about. He's terrific.
And you know, the product is great. The product speaks for itself. Speaking of pivoting, we're rebooting right now where we're looking at coming out with a lower proof version of it. It's like one hundred and thirteen proof right now. Just knock you over feature too much of it.
I'm the last guy you're going to ask because you just pop the court with me. I'm down. I'm just not a drinker. But everybody's raving about it, and I'm happy that you having fun with it.
That's speaking about your friend Michael Boublay, who we had sent me.
A bottle of his bourbon. I got mine too, one bottle. I didn't get a case. I got one bottle with a note.
I didn't get a case either.
But the fact that he sent about that he remembered to send a bottle.
He's a very cool guy.
Yeah, Michael's great and he's doing well with it up in Canada. But you know, it's you got to show up and you got to do promotion. You gotta You can't just put a bottle out there and say it's me. You know, you gotta work it because there's so much stuff out there.
Well, Johnny Mack is about showing up. He shows up.
Also, you know, he has a foundation where he's done some great things for kids. He just he's a guy. I think I was saying he on the phone the other night. His life goes from A to Z. I mean, it's just. And he's got a great marriage. He and his wife Patty smythe the rock and roll singer, and he plays the guitar. And sometimes it's funny that we all laugh at him because when she says follow the singer, you know, and he has.
To do that the same piano pilt piano players, we do the same thing. Follow me. You don't follow this singer. It's death.
What does it mean? What does follow the singer even mean?
Well, in other words, if I'm singing Roboto and I'm going and now the end is near, I want the piano player to be there with me, not ahead of me. So when I'm going and now I don't want to hear da da da da day No no wait, I'm gonna sing, you're gonna follow me, you're gonna play. I'm not gonna follow you. So in that sense, they've got to be with you and not anticipate you to whether they're ahead of you with the chord or where it's going. So when she's singing, he's got to be dead on the beat or anticipate where she's going, as opposed to playing ahead of her before she even sings. I mean, I mean, Frank was crazy with that. Some piano players would get like very busy behind the vocal and Sinatra, go leave some room for me. So it was like a joke that we had these pat lines of what the telemusician if they weren't playing with you, and Dean used to do it a lot. Hey Pally leaves the room for me.
And also you're an art collector and he's an art collector, and that's another another dimension of John McEnroe.
Yes, he has an art gallery in New York.
I wonder if Warhol ever did, and it did Warhol over.
I think I think so, you Alaska, but I think so.
I'd love to see that.
I saw the one he did a view over at Steve Wind's house. That's very cool.
Yeah, I give it to Steve. He did eight and he did eight of mine. I give a lot away to museum when in San Francisco, London, but he did eight portraits. He was a hell of an artist.
Boy.
He was the guy.
If you have an extra one to have.
A wall for, well, I've got one for you. I'm to send it over there. Got some prints made, but I'll send you a print. Do you want to print?
Awesome?
I won't do limited edition like, no, it's cool to have a print. I'll send I'll send you on. Yeah, it's coming, my boy. So it should be exciting, should be exciting tomorrow. I'm looking forward to it a lot. And I love sharing my friends with you and your friends with me because it's a nice thing. Friendship. You know my feeling about that. I hit it on it with Gail King, and I think that the world needs to evaluate friendship. And the next thing is all these wealthy dudes and all these corporations. I think they've got to do something for the poor. There used to be a unilateral effort for poor and bring them into society and let them enjoy what those of that have been blessed with it. That's my next no question, flag waiver help the poor.
I can help you help.
So can you help me? I can help you help?
All right, Well i'll talk I'll talk to you tomorrow.
All right, My Darling. Sleep warm, as I always say, sleepwarm, love you.
Here's the man. There's one there we go.
How you doing, buddy, Hey, great, great to talk to you.
I got to tell you. You know, we crossed paths so many years ago, and we're not going to lean all over tennis to you, obviously, because you got such an interesting life and career. But you remember the Alan King stuff at Jesus That's where we used to rub elbows. I was obviously working there and Allen was gutting around doing his thing. But you know, I regretted really never getting to know you back then. Pretty well. I was a young guy as you were. But that was the hell of an event that Allen. He was kind of ahead of his time, wasn't he.
That was a great event. That was one of our big events in the late seventies. And unfortunately the powers that be the tennis have a way of pretty much screwing everything up, and that was another one that fell by the way side for reasons that I can't really explained. So but yeah, that was you know, I was just starting out and my first couple of years on the tour, so that was quite an exciting event.
Well, they all played, you know, permanent ran the place. They said to me that, you know, as great as tennis was and is, back then, there were no ratings and that was one of the reasons. You remember, the ratings just weren't adding up the way they are today.
The ratings, I mean, actually the ratings. By the late seventies, early eighties, we had the same ratings as NBA. Really now, people would laugh at us if if we even said it was close. We if you had told me that golf would have double the ratings of tennis, I would have laughed that year. Now we're like, please get us on our network once in a while. So it's pretty it's somewhat said, even though you've had these, you know, three incredible male players and Serena among others. So but that was the sort of the heyday. In a way, it was great, but they didn't take you know, market that. You know, we do a terrible job marketing our sport.
Well remember you know, grown up around it all my life and in fact rolled it into you know, Federer, I did his event over there in Switzerland, the big one that he does, and the doll became a buddy, and I've got an eighteen year old son, and he plays and now it's a little pickleball too, But we love the sport. But I won't to know how you too, My buddy Skip Curly feathers over there.
We all love.
How did you guys become friends? I'm curious.
Yeah, I mean we met, I mean many years ago. I think at a dinner party, probably at the Groubman's house, and you know, wound up playing golf together one day and since then, I can't count how many times we've played golf together. Had a lot of laughs, a lot of fun, and Patty John's amazing wife and my wife Edie had become really great friends. And then we sort of weave Larry, David and Ashley into the mix, and so the six of us are sort of often together.
Well, yeah, what's funny is that Paul I was one of the few people in the world that's it didn't know, you know, or hadn't met yet. So out of the eight billion or nine billion people, I was one of the few we hadn't you know, hung out. So he was like, that's okay, we got a zero in on that Mac and Roll guy. We got to get him back in the golf, so but it was a you know, it's been great and it's got me a lot more in the golf, even though that fort that sport frustrates the hell out of me, as Skipped can you know every time he sees me laughs when I, you know, lose it, which is pretty much every hole.
So if Eric, you don't lose it anymore, do you, John, You've tapered off a little.
I only lose it when I get paid for it normally. But you know, Skip like, you know, take me out feels like you know, you know, I got to pay double unless I get pissed a couple.
Of times, so that's the cover charge.
There's still a ligne to there's still a line to get the nose skip Jack.
And I also read, you know, years ago before I even knew Skip. I believe I read Ward the Shore. You know It's you know it was was was a great read, you know, and his whole take on the Steve Winn Trump saga in Atlantic City, along with Skipp being in the middle of this too, so I was quite entertained by that. So I'm happy over the last ten years or so we've gotten to be good buddies.
Well, you got a good buddy there. I go way back with them Steve fifty years and way back with Skippy, and that whole Atlantic city scene was quite the war. It was right in the middle of all of that. But Skip and I have remained friends for such a long long time. But he thinks the world of you, man, he really does. He's always calling me after the game.
So you know what it is, you know, Paul saying you are my destiny. It was destiny that we'd wind up together one way or another. Who knew it would be through golf? That would be the common denominator.
I didn't play for you know, I had my first wife and kids. I played a little as a kid, but then I had some kids and I stopped playing because you know, I was trying to be as good as a husband and father as I could. But of course, later on, you know, when it ended up not working out, and then I got remat I realized, that's why you play golf, to sort of get away from your wife and kids for a couple hours. And my what Patty was like, go play golf. You know, she wanted to get rid of me also, So then it all made sense, you know, it takes a little too long. That can you know, are you gonna have to be gone all day?
So?
And she she didn't want to become a golf widow.
So.
But but other than that, it's all good.
Well. I remember the documentary they did on your life a few years ago, John, There was a scene where Patty, your wife, said, I married a bad boy who who turned into I think a good boy.
She said, I turned into a good man.
Good man.
My favorite favorite line in the whole documentary.
There you go, Well, tell us about that journey man. When you heard her say that, what's the journey after that?
Well, it's you know, the journey after that is try to stay married, you know, because if you make a comment like that, you gotta you know, you got to live up to the dreams and the expectations. But you know, there's times in life where sometimes you need a second chance and an opportunity.
You know.
After I'd gotten divorced and you had three kids, I was like, I do not want to go through this. It's hell getting divorced, and so all of a sudden I met Patty. This was on Christmas Day of nineteen ninety three, and I soon realized you know, after I didn't see her for eight months. Then after trying to you know, hey, let's get together, and she was going away the next day. And about eight months later, I stopped playing, you know, and I started commentating, but I still played, like on a seniors tour, and I played Andre Agassi coincidentally, five days after he won the US Open for the first time, and I know he's probably celebrating, you know, deservedly so, but and we played four or five days later, and I ended up beating him in this exhibition. So I was, you know, feeling all high and mighty, like I can still do it. So I was like, I got the guts. I was like, I'm gonna call Patty smythe up and see if she's still wants to go get together, because allegedly she was interested in, you know, maybe having a dinner or you know, maybe something good could happen from this. And I ended up going to La the next day and I have been with her ever since. That'll be thirty years in September. Ironically, literally the day after our first date, my late great buddy who I always looked up to, Vitus Garrolitis, died and I was so shook up. I was playing a charity match up in the Bay Area and I called Patty up. We had just had dinner the night before, gone to a party, and I said, listen, I need to come, you know, stay, you know, can I come see you? And she was like, ah, this guy's just trying to you know, get to stay overnight, which I'm not saying was something that I had no intention of, but i'd really needed. I felt like there was something really special there. So she let me come down. And then that spark was lit, I realized because at that time, you know, I was thirty five, I think, and I was thinking to myself, the last thing I want to do is get in a relationship. I'm just gonna go out with a bunch of twenty something year olds, you know, twenty five or all this. You know, I don't want anything serious. But then I saw her and I said, you got to change gears. You gotta just you may not ever have this chance again. So fortunately I made the right call.
And you loved music. You loved hers, didn't you.
I love music. I loved her music. I hadn't met her, you know, I listen, I've been going to rock and roll show since I was a kid. So she is a little disillusioned at that time with music. You know the women. You know this from the past, and you know they could only play one female singer on the radio. Well there it was, you know, Blondie was you know, Cindy Lapper, Pat Bennettsar, Patty Smythe and Scandal. So she know, she felt like she wasn't getting what she deserved. It was unfair. She was a little disillusioned. You know. She had opened for Rod Stewart traveling felt like, I don't even know if I want to do it. So I said to her, because I was all gung ho. I was, you know, a good guitar player for a tennis player. You know, I liked the thought I was good, but I had some energy.
You know.
I was like, we should get in a band together. This will be great. And she goes, she hesitated. She said, yeah, we should play mixed doubles at Wimbledon as well. And I go, I go, you don't even play tennis, and she goes exactly. So she was subsequently nominated for an Academy Award for a song she did in the movie Junior by Arnold Schwarzenegger and lost Calton John and I thought, you know, these offers would flowed in because she, you know, got nominated. That didn't happen, you know, for her, and so it was sort of it's sort of been frustrating to see someone who sings so she can still hit the notes she hit forty years ago. A lot of people can do, so it's sort of you know, but she's you know, she's been my rock for me. You know, we have six kids together. I believe I saw you at six kids, Paul. If I'm not mistaken, You're not mistaken.
Nine grand children and six kids.
Yeah, I got my first a year ago. But it was a lot of craziness. You know, when you go through there's we don't want to get into this podcast. It might be a six hour podcast instead of six days minutes or an hour.
But what was curious to me because you had mentioned you were a guitar player, which I knew, and you know, I was in England living in Europe from age eighteen on. And I'll never forget When I always tell this story, all the top guys clapped and everybody, you know, you know, we have great access as with celebrity. We've been blessed with that. But this guy came to town. He played in a little club right near the hotel. I was thaying, every top guy in England was there, and I think they went home and wanted to reevaluate Jimmy Hendricks. Jimmy changed the scene. Man, what influenced you to pick up a guitar? How much were you into it? I mean that that's probably way before you picked one up, But I'm just curious about that.
Uh, you know what it was was as a as a kid in high school, I was sort of like, you know, I played my tennis racket like an air guitarist. It didn't dawn on me. I was playing every sport that you could trying it, and you know, played three sports in high school, basketball, soccer, tennis. Didn't actually do it and dawn. I mean, when I started traveling, you know a lot, and had a lot of time to kill in the hotel room, maybe you should actually try to play the guitar as opposed to just you know, doing this with your strings on your racket. So that's where it started. Soon afterwards, I had a buddy on the Chicago Bears who took me to see Buddy Guy at the Checkerboard Lounge, and it was one of the great experiences I ever had watching Buddy Guy just rip it to shreds. And actually Hendricks learned some stuff from Buddy Guy. I think played with Buddy Guy at a certain point very early on, and I was looked at this and I'm like, who the hell am I kidding. I went back to my hotel. I had this huge hotel room near the airport in Chicago. I took my guitar. I smashed it to smitherings my first less Paul I was like, man, and plus it was I was like, God, these less palls are so heavy, this is annoying. So I smashed to bits and then I was didn't play much for it. I was probably when I was like twenty twenty, you know. I started about twenty, which is you know, it's sort of like learning the language. I think that it's a lot easier when you're younger. I'd wish I had started a lot earlier, obviously, but I didn't.
So.
Patty says they asked her about my style of guitar playing. She says that I wrestle it into submission. I'm I'm not sure that's a big compliment. Although I've gotten Donner since the pandemic, so I didn't play. The other problem with it, though, even though I'd love to kill time playing that, it took some out of it, out of me mentally, you know, just that concentration that you need to go out for me at least to go on a tennis court and try to, you know, play my best. So I couldn't, you know, if i'd an eight o'clock match, you know, and I'm over in Europe, I couldn't. All right, I'm going to play guitar from twelve to three and then I'll practice. I sort of had to put it aside for a long period of time. I wasn't able to play that much. I was able to meet a lot of the you know, these great you know people, a couple of people you've mentioned, whether it was this, you know, I'm sitting there with my Robert playing He's like, oh man, I love what you did. I'm like, Zeppelin was my favorite band growing up, and you know, I didn't realize these English rock guys loved you know a lot of them like tennis and Wimbledon was as big as it was, so I was like, oh my god, this is amazing. So over the years, it's been a long road. Of course, it's been forty plus years. I probably be improved more than I ever had when the pandemic hick, because that's when I really started, you know, playing a lot more. And so after thirty years of being together, I think, I mean, I don't maybe I can be quoted on this, possibly that Patty and I finally was like, hey, maybe we should do a couple of shows together. It only took thirty years.
Paul sot who touched you the most, if any.
Probably my late great friend Vitas Gariliitis. Oh really yeah, he played piano and guitar as a kid. So he started giving me a few lessons. So that's actually where I was taught, probably the best and the most I had other you know people I remember, you know, Bill Wyman was trying to teach me the one four five scale, and I was like, what the hell is the one four five blue scale? So he tried. And then Eddie Van Hale and Lake Great, one of my all time favorite guitar players ever, great guy. We were friends and he'd come over to my you know, I got over to his house or vice versa, and he's like, all right, let's try to play guitar. And he played the lick that on his first round and there is a song called Ain't Talking about Love is? You know? And I go, how do you play that lick? And first he goes, I had to play something. There was only two chords, that's what he says. So I'm like okay, and so he tries to teach me the lick and I'm like, dude, dun, dun, dun, you know, trying to learn this lick way too slow. Fors like, let's just go have some, you know, scarf a drink, and he just like five minutes. He was like, that's it. It's hopeless. So I've had guys try to do it better. Guys, I've sort of I guess maybe I choked under pressure a little bit there.
Of course Eric Clapton too, right, didn't Eric Clapton?
Didn't you know? I was around Eric and I love Eric, but he never actually taught me how to play. I did have an experience once in London where I was tried decided I love David Bowie, so I was like trying to learn Suffragette City one of his big songs. So all of a sudden, I'm at this hotel at Wimbledon. There's a knock on my door. I opened the door. It's David Bowie. He's staying right above me, and he comes down. He goes, hey, John, I heard you were staying a right, would you like to come up for a drink? And I'm like, hell, yeah, you know, of course, I'll be right there. He goes, don't bring the guitar.
You heard me bring some balls in a racket, right, That's cool, That's very cool.
I think the luckiest perk, I'm sure, paul you could speak to this is the chance that you get to meet entertainers and other lines of work, whether it's you know, the actor you met them all. I'm sure actors, are you know, musicians or other athletes. I mean, you know artists. I love art, so it's absolutely you know that's been for me. I'm like, oh my god, this is you know what a dream for a kid from Queens.
That's so fascinating to me. I've been collecting art since the sixties. Paula Cooper Leo Castelli. I don't know if that rings a bell with you.
I know, both those dealers. Yeah, I mean I.
Knew they were helping me buying Frank Stella, Ellsworth Killer. I got so into it. For years I had this collection and it just opened my world up to experience and go down there be with them, know them, you were with Andy Warhol. I know, how did all of that come about for you that you get into it again?
It was Vitas Garilitis, my buddy who took me to Soho in the seventies and introduced me to a bunch of artists. And when I started to come into money, I you know, it was like, what do you do with you get make some money? This is incredible And basically, first, you know, buy a car and buy an apartment, you know, and I'm like, oh my god, and then you have these walls. And I always loved art and I also felt a kinship in a way with artists because they were out there on their own, like you know, on an island, like a tennis player. So it really was something I could relate to that the guts it took to you know, go out there and lay it on the line in essence. You know. The other people I related to were like stand up comedians, the people that were willing to go out, you know, you might lay an egg, you know, and so I had a respect for that. So that just felt like it was some an avenue I want to explore. You know. I never really looked at sort of the stock market really, you know, my dad managed me and put some money in there, but it wasn't like I was looking what's maybe I should have what was my apple stock or this that or the other thing. But I always loved art, not only to collect it, but you know, out of just sort of that understanding of what it took.
And you had a gallery. We had a gallery for a while in New York City.
I still have a gallery. Actually I owed one like about thirty years ago. I decided I was going to try to help artists, and I'd have an opening and three hundred people would show up, and you know, one hundred people were like artists that were like, hey, great show, can you see my work? And I'm like, what that? You know, So it was like it was tough to sort of get over the hump, you know. Well, you mentioned two names that are sort of legendary in the art world. Art dealers to get people to come and say, hey, I want to get represented by John McEnroe at the John Mcanoe Gallery, And I was like, whoa, this is like way too much you know, work time and effort and work for for a while and so then I was like, God, these these this art things even they're it's even these artists are even worse than tennis players, you know, young players. So I decided that I shifted years after about five years around two thousand, that if you know, if I was going to do something for kids and put this time in, I was going to go back to the sport and try to eventually, like I have a tennis academy, and to try to you know, bring the sport back up to the level I believed it was when you know, I was playing. Not that it was me necessary, but it was a great time for tennis. That's sort of been my life goal since then. It's, you know, try to get that cool factor back, get more opportunities for kids they can't afford to play it, which is about ninety nine percent of the you know population. So that's you know, I still have the art gallery. I still love to you know, buy and collect a bit, but I'm not as involved like twenty four to seven the way you need to be if you really want to, you know, succeed big at something.
And the prices are crazy today. Quite a few years ago, you know, they went through the roof. I mean I was, you know with Stella and all those guys. The buyer started coming from everywhere. Someone in London became the biggest buyer of Stella. But when you and I were buying years ago, it was easier. You know, I get a royalty check for seventy grand and I'd buy Stella. You couldn't do that. After a while, it just got crazy. Do you buy anything now?
You know something that I mean, I don't want to get into numbers, but if you spend ten thousand dollars on something which meant something then but it wasn't make or break that same artist now is two hundred and fifty, just as you know, starts crazy. And you know, a lot of this is like it's a guessing. You know, it's a lot more people have got into it, but it's just like another commodity or you know, like they're investing in the stock market. So it's changed a lot, and so you have to know, Like to me, it's like it's like Wall Street. You have to know the right people. To me, there's like ten people running you know, the art business, and the same as Wall Street. I don't know about music, but in our sport it's the same. You know, Wimbledon, you four majors, few other people, they're running the whole thing. It's crazy. What's Johnny Mack's commissioner? Come on, skip?
Have you ever heard of play guitar? Have you ever played for you?
Oh?
I have to tell you. You know every well not everybody. We've gone to Cabo Christmas to New Year's with Larry, David and Ashley and Patty and John Eaton myself and Jeff Schaeffer and his wife as well. And at night John takes the guitar out and Patty sings they performed for us, and I always do John. I always give John a hard time about this because Patty every once in a while will say these words, follow this singer, follow the singer. She says to John's.
Important, got to do that?
What You're dead?
But glad she no, She's just she's just the greatest and she's a great sport. And you know I was listening earlier when John was you know, sort of kidding about relationships. This is one couple that genuinely love each other. It's amazing. I mean, I've got so many friends. You know, you'll be on the golf course, the phone all light up. Their wife is on the phone, go oh god, it's my wife. You know, John's happy when he hears from Patty and vice versa, and it's really great. They're just they're just terrific together when you and when you're with them, you know, over at their home and you know they're entertaining, all the kids are there, and it's you know, it's it's just a great family and a lot of a lot of fun and a lot of great experiences that we've had together. But I was going to just mention something we were talking earlier.
Let me say something real quick, because about five years ago, Patty was like, because you know, I'd like to play and stuff, She'd be like, God, do you have to play the guitar today? You know, could you take like a day off? And you know, not really if I can avoid it. And then finally she goes, all right, I'll tell you what. You can play guitar as long as you don't sing.
I've got a few friends like that.
And then when you play acoustic guitar, it feels like you need to sing a little bit, you know. Even though that's why Patty's in New York right now, I'm gonna, you know, see her in a couple of days, but this is the perfect time for me to belt it out on the acoustic. Later, after you get off, I can sing my you know, horrible song all I want.
Do you ever write, John, Do you ever write something?
You know? I did? I did write in the beginning. I wrote some original stuff, and then I recorded some stuff. And so luckily I put in this contract that i'd signed with people that you can't release it unless I approve it, you know, because I had people in the eighties we'll get some great musicians and you know, we'll bring everyone in. And I was like, well, I don't know about that. I, you know, really not a very good guitar player. And I got better. I thought, okay, you know, I because I did want that camaraderie, you know, tennis. For all those years, I was on my own most almost all the time, and so the idea of playing in a band appeal to me. The problem was, I realized quick I remember I used to rehearse with these young bucks that I thought, you know, they're gonna bring a lot of energy. This is gonna be great. I'd say, look, rehearsals at twelve because I got to pick my kids up at school at three. You know, no one got there at twelve. The first guy shows up at twelve fifteen, twelve thirty, the second guy show up at like one. The third guy would call a gay. We're still jamming, and I'm like, it's one fifteen and I got to stop at three, and you're asking me for jamming. So then I'm like, maybe this kind of thing was better after all, you know.
You know, Jackie Shaeffer, Jeff's wife, was saying to me, what you know, when they were playing together and singing and everything. I mean, she said, this is for real. I can't get over this. They really love to do this. I said, listen, you know the term garage band. At his home in Malibu, they literally go into the garage that's there, like you have a studio at home. Paul, he has a garage at his home and they're out there and they're banging out songs, and it's just.
I have to just correct skip a little bit. I love to do that.
Okay, do you know much music? Great music was made in garages. Let's go back to Motown when I recorded Detroit, and that'll start in the sixties. Some of the best stuff came out of a garage, and a lot of the stuff today's Skip and John is done in bedrooms. Just sit around with the computer and do whatever you want.
It's different, that's part. I can't figure that out. You know, that whole computer, that's like way beyond me. That's why I don't know. It just seems crazy. You can put everything together and you don't even need other people. I guess if you're a depth at a computer technology, where'd you write My Way? By the way, just out of curiosity or garage?
I elevated from a garage. I lived in a garage and I wrote Diana. I was in a basement and that was a different time, no technology. But My Way was written at midnight thunderstorm, motivated by Sinatra. The prior week I was down in Florida with him and he was retiring. He wasn't in a good mood. He was breaking up with his twenty one year old wife, then Mia Farrell, So he wasn't in the best of shape. But anyway, it was midnight at home at a piano in my apartment. Finished it in five hours, called him at Caesar's Palace and I said, I've got something for you, which I didn't have the balls to do years prior to that, and I flew out. I gave it to him, but two months later he played it to me over the phone. But that was just done around a piano. You know, we had things we work with one little tape machine John back then, and it's evolved into crazy world. When I wrote with Drake, for instance, I had the last hit with Michael Jackson. It don't matter to me, and Drake came to my home and we sat there. I said, well, what do you play? He says, I don't we do it on a computer. I said, well, you take what I've written and you go home and you call me when you've finished it, and we'll see whether we're going to put it out. It's a whole new business today. And Patty, she's smart, she's well versed at what's going on today. It's all technology, it's all streaming. It's a different world, totally different.
It's so different, so different. Tennis is a lot different also, I mean it's a totally different game as well than what I played back with Wood. I started with, would this is like a totally different thing? Now?
Yeah, well I experienced all of that. I mean obviously with what's going on today, and look, you're obviously if not the greatest player of all time. How do you feel about the sport now? Where do you see these young players coming from? What's with the game today?
Yeah, the game is evolve into something that I would have not expected in terms of this actual speed and the style, you know, where everyone's more or less staying back and we used to be more aggressive and becoming in net So that's surprising. I think we were ahead of the curb. We started the very beginning. You know that there was equal prize money because you know, for men and women, which I think is a good thing for our sport that we you know, people, I think other sports will end up modeling themselves. After you saw the NCAA women's basketball outrated the men's. It was tough when I was young, you know, and the guys on the tour like equal prize money, you crazy, you know, But later on I saw the advantage. And also I had four girls and two boys, and you know Billy Jean King with Title nine, what that meant to so many young girls that they felt like they were given the chance. So I think in that sense it's headed to a good place. Problem is is is you know, I again marketing a cool factor, getting and most importantly getting the young kids that can't afford the play. You know, in most cases they're playing football or basketball an opportunity to play tennis. So that's you know what I've been trying to do for years at my tennis academy in New York, you know, fundraise and try to give as many opportunities as possible to change young kids' lives.
The Saudis have sort of taken over golf. You know, we'd live golf. It's made such a huge impact on the sport. Do you think that the Saudis will take a look at tennis as well the same way they did with golf.
Well, they already have, and they already are. They've already you know, a big event, they're throwing like a billion dollars into it. I don't think it's as much as golf yet, but they've already taken over some sponsorships, rankings, you know, so they're there, their brand's going to be out there. I personally don't agree with it. I don't think that we needed to go there. It's just obvious to me. It's obviously about the money. But you know, that's what's been happening more and more in society. So I think it's hypocritical for people to criticize golfer tennis when every time Dickon Harry and business deals with the Saudi's and government stew So they shouldn't be singling our sports out and saying how dare they do that? I do think, you know, it would have been better not to do it. Yet, I suppose there's a time and a place for anything. You keep your options open. But uh, that's what's happening. You know, money talks more than ever, the richer getting richer. It's a crazy world out there.
Nothing's changed. What do you see pickleball today?
Is it as far as pickleball? Pickleball blows Paul as far as I'm concerned. But you know, my kids like to play. Yeah, I'm not my kids, my friends, you know, like to play. It's it's it's obviously for me in a way, I'm sixty five. Now, it's a lot you know, smaller, coord easier to do. It's a plastic ball. You ever played with football? And you know New York City? I mean, come on, is that baseball or arena football where they play instead of the NFL. I mean, it's that's the way I look at it. To me, you have look a pyramid. The tennis is the king of the sports, and you have now pidell is coming in and pickleball and squash was you know, it's gonna take over. Racketball was gonna take over boloney, is what I think. But you know, people get out there and if it gives them a little you know, motivation to work out, God bless him. I mean, doctor's a thrill. People are getting.
Hurt left and right right.
I just saw I happen to be watching, you know, some golf and I saw, you know, one of the fittest older guys ever, Bernard Langer Tory's Achilles playing pickleball two weeks ago. And this guy prides himself on, you know, being mister fitness for you know, his whole life and he and he is, But something happened there, So it'll be interesting to see what happens with it. But hopefully both can. You know, I don't want it to like, you know, not work. It's I don't have enough for strong enough feeling either way, but I hopefully will help create some more interest in racket sports, particularly tennis.
Paul Yes, get when John talks about the fact that, you know, he's sixty five now, and it talks about injuries. So one day John came over to my house to watch the Super Bowl, and when he came in the door, he was sort of limping a bit, and I looked at his knee, and his knee was the size of a large grapefruit. I couldn't believe the size of this thing. So I have a game ready ice machine at home really compresses and gets the cold right into the joint. So I said, you want to try this? He said sure, so wrapped up his leg. So while we were sitting there, I said, you've had surgery on this knee, right? No, you never had surge around this name. No, you've had how many surgeries have you had? None? What an athlete all your life in a sport with all that cutting, not a knee surgery, Not a neck surger, not a shoulder surgery. Now I'm obviously a better athlete because I've had two shoulder surgeries, three knee surgeries and next surgery, so I must be a better athlete. But he all kidding aside the fact that he's been able to escape that amazing. I think the only three great current athletes that haven't had you know, orthpeedic surgery or John Lebron James and Serena Williams. But you know, any other athlete, most every other athlete has had surgery at one form or another. It's rather remarkable.
That's a wild stat.
Well little luck, little luck, you know, and also being taught well the movement, you know, to sort of be above the court, like Federer a little bit. But Federer end up having you know, he had problems with That's why he was forced to retire. He had like two three knee surgeries. I've tore him my minist twice. But I chose having some shots and rehabbing as opposed to a surgery. So I've been lucky that the body's held up for the and held up when I was play. I am, for the most part, I ever had like serious injuries. I'm gonna knock on wood now because my friends are gonna go play Bicker Baltimorerow and I'll be like brenarn Langers.
But meanwhile, two days after the Super Bowl he got on a plane and fluted to buy and played tennis. So go figure, right, But you know, I think part of it is your discipline. You're one of the most disciplined friends I have, and your routine is rather extraordinary as well. I mean, obviously you're fit, but you know, one of his favorite things, Paul, after we play golf, he'll go home to Malibu, gets in the sauna and then jumps in the ocean. That's his version of a cold plunge, and he goes in the ocean. But he just does these things on a regular basis. He's really just.
I love the ocean. I mean, I've had a I live in two of the greatest places in the world to me. In New York City, I grew up in the city, but I was dreamed of making in Manhattan and live there. I've been been there for forty forty five years, and out in Malibu, I've had a home for almost that long, and I just it's great to have that option I'm lucky, you know, to be able to go some crazy energy and then be able to kick it back a little bit. But I feel like I almost have to work out, you know, just at some degree. It keeps me sane. And sauna is a you know, a semi shortcut, but it's still you know, especially when the Corona thing hit and where everyone was, you know, stay in your house. I'm like, what, you can't even leave your house? I mean, the air was better in in La than it had been for eighty years, and meanwhile they're telling us not to go outside, can't go on the beach. What the beach? The water is cleaner than it's been since you know, eighteen forty three. So it was great, but it and then they were like, hey, a sauna could help with the virus. So, you know, me and my buddy who was in Rage against the Machine, the Great Band, you know, we'd go in every day because we like, it's sauna is going to kill the corona virus. You know, what the hell did we know? What the hell do we still know?
How do you stay fit?
John?
Don't you?
At ninety four?
I'm a health nut, you know, I do a variety of things you know, I'm as I've gotten older, are doing a little bit more lifting type stuff to say, you know, get some strength cardio wise. I still try to get out and you know, tennis court when I can three days a week, you know, every other day or something occasionally a little more. I used to love. I haven't done it much recent. Mountain biking. I love to go mountain bike, so that would keep me going. And so those those are the you know, a stationary bike, which gets boring. You know, we do a lot of sitting as a society obviously all the time. So I'm trying to do more stuff, you know where we stand up a little bit. But you look great, Paul. I got to say, man, Skip, I don't I'm not sure about Skip, but you look really good.
Ninety eight years old Joan ninety eight years old, ninety eight years old, Joe, what's your what's your eating house? Because I'm a big medical nut and I'm careful what goes in my body. But you look fantastic. You state, then how do you eat?
You know, I'm a lot of it is a metabolism. I mean I watch what I eat, but I can eat anything I can, you know, I like to have a couple of drinks. I can eat any food. It doesn't really matter. Just things seem to, for whatever reason, run through pretty quick. But you know, if I was doing something where I needed the body to feel better, I'd be more focused on, you know, trying to eat the right thing. But I also love the occasion. You know, pizza is my favorite junk food without a doubt. I love, you know, a good nice cold beer every now and then. Shot at tequila can't kill you, right, So you know, I think part of it drogged of reeve. You need a little bit of that, just you know, I got to, you know, I feel like at this stage, I want to, you know, enjoy like what Hopefully there's going to be some good amount of time left. But what about you? What's your what do you you just said you watch what you eat? How how far do you take that?
I take it pretty far. I don't do any sugar, I do any white bread. I don't drink any alcohol. I'm a bore. But I have an exciting side to me which we won't go into. And I eat, you know, very little meat. I get up in the morning. There's certain juices I take. I do you know, I try to keep my voice. It's all I got. It's all in here, you know, yours is up in here and your physical and if you don't take care of it. I watched, you know, coming up with the rat pack and the Mafia crowd and all of that stuff. Who are great, you know. I love being around them, but you learned a lot of things not to do. But you have to take care of it. And there's certain things that you can't eat. I'm not a smoker, never gonna smoke. I'll do a cigar now and then, but I'm very, very careful. Especially when I'm going to start a concert tour. I get into a real certain kind of a zone. Otherwise you just can't get up there and sing. You just can't do it. That's why I see so many guys today just quitting at an early age or getting banged up vocally. It's really important.
For you, man. I saw the Eagles last night, and they, you know, they're all like, you know, very you know, aware of that for you know, don especially Henley for his vook.
So I think gayzof stays on top of him too.
Yeah, don't do it, don't do that.
Mac Paul Paul performs. Now he's eighty two years old, he's still touring and I can tell you he's his show right now. The energy that he puts out is really no different than when I first saw him forty years ago. I don't know how he does it, but he does it. So whatever he's doing is certainly working for him.
That's awesome. I'd love to check it out.
But speaking of endurance, my son John wanted me to tell you that we've never mentioned this too. And you know, I'm originally from Hartford and in July of nineteen age eighty seven, you played that famous Davis Cup match in Hartford against Boris Becker. Are you ready for this, Paul, six hours and twenty minutes one tennis match, six hours and twenty minutes. And the irony of it is it was one minut It less than the longest match ever played in the history. But six hours and twenty minutes they played tennis. And I won't I won't talk about who won the match because of our guests, but.
Yeah, yeah, I was up two sets to one, and in those days, they took a ten minute break between the third and fourth set, and I get into the locker room and I lay on this training table and I go to the trainerman. You gotta you gotta give me a little rub here, because I'm getting a little bit like my I'm losing and I this only happened twice in my entire career and in my entire life. After he massaged me a little bit, try to loosen me up, I got off off the table. I started a walk and I looked back at the table and I saw my body there. I it was like I walked out of my body and I had absolutely nothing. You know, that last bit was like it was painful because I couldn't bring it. And that happened to me in the finals of the US Open against Evonne Lendel. One time we've played, you know my day. We played the semifinals and finals Saturday and Sunday. Well, it's hard to recover if you played a five setter and ninety degree weather and then have to come back the next day. Can what how physically you know it can be in the recovery. And I was playing Lendel and I was up. I actually got a good start and I was up five too, and I got up out of my chair and I started walking out and I looked back and I'm like, oh my god, I have just walked out of my body and I'm still sitting on the changeover. Not a good feeling, let me just say that. And so that ended up being like a turning point in a way. You know, if I had won that match, I still would have been number one that year. So it was that was that was a depressing moment. But fortunately it only happened twice. But it's a bad feeling.
And how about depressing? How about how Boris has wound up that's sex.
Yeah, yeah, that's and quite an unfortunate chain of events. But the good news is that he got out pretty quick and he seems to be back on his feet. David Zaslov, who skip mentioned, kept him employed with the Eurosport because they owned he owns everything, but that was one of the things. And so that was, you know, a lifeline in a way. And he's trying to get back into coaching, but it's really aged him. You know, he's had there's the guy who's had ten twelve surgeries at least his body's falling apart. But you know, a lot of that to me would be a connection between the mind and body. And the strain he was, you know, putting himself under. I always be like, Bars, you all right, man? Is everything cool? You know, because he's the guy that I would consider if I had have picked ten tennis players over the years of my top you know buddies, he'd be one of those. So to see that fall was rough. You know. I remember when I was at Wimbledon and he was in jail and I said, I don't know if you're listening, Bars. When I started BBCD because I worked for BBC, but I love you man, And because I couldn't go see him, I was going to go see him, but they you know, he couldn't. He only see one visit or a month or something. He wanted to see his his wife or his kid or something. And so I heard that he saw that, which was you know, made me feel good and and hopefully kept him going. And then he's hopefully he's going to get back on track. But he made some pretty dumb ass moves.
Yeah, it's very, very sad.
You know.
Paul mack Is is revered by the other tennis players, I think partly certainly because of he's demonstrated what you can do after tennis when you look at his his career as a broadcaster. They look at that and they think, wow, that's that's something to aspire to. But you know, you think about what he's accomplished in that, and you know that when we were playing golf on on his actually on his sixtieth birthday, we're playing golf together and his phone was raining the whole time we were out there with all the other you know, tennis greats calling him up, all the legends calling him checking in, wishing him happy birthday. You know, he's got such a great relationship. But the other thing that he's done is, and I don't want to embarrass him, but he gives back where a lot of these athletes don't. He's got this foundation. Maybe you could just talk about that, John, what you've done with your foundation, which I think is pretty cool.
Well, I appreciate you bringing it up. I mean I was given a lot, you know, I guess I don't know if you ever read the book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell, but things sort of fell into place for me where I got these chances that a lot of people don't even get. So it dawned on me a little bit. I was saying earlier with the art gallery, I was like, wait a minute, I got to shift back to this tennis because I was fortunate and I want to give other kids. My ultimate dream would be a kid from Harlem to win the US Open. That came from my academy. So that goal to try to you know, give as many kids as possible a chance has sort of become my you know, lifelong mission at this point. And so I think there's you know, there's a there's a real satisfaction because it keeps me close to it. The commentary that you mentioned, you know, play I played on the seniors tour for twenty five years. I played close to sixty and it feels like it's nonsensical not to do it, to be perfectly honest, And I think there's payback. I mean, who would have thought, like last year, that I'm you know, a dropout. I was a college dropout at Stamford, and I became the first athlete in one hundred and twenty years to you know, make the commencement speech at Stamford. You know, it was like, well, hopefully I'm doing something right, you know, So I'm going to keep pursuing that I was involved in you know, other charitable things, but I've sort of honed in on this one at this stage because that's what you know, that's the reason I'm talking to you guys, And hopefully when all is said and done, this you know, I'm a believer that you don't have to, you know, leave your family at twelve and move to voluntaries in Florida and you know, live and train there and be away from your brothers and sisters. That you could live, god forbid, like a normal life. Well if you call living in New York City normal, but go to school and play other sports and go to college, you know. So I'm trying to give them some values as well. It's his life.
Skills, reinventing yourself, you know.
I think that what I take pride in is that I was willing to try some things that ended up not working out. You could say I failed that I don't look at it necessarily as a failure. I mean I had a talk show, I had a game show at the art gallery, you know, and all those things led me back to a place where I could still be part of the sport and do it in a different way. Commentary was interesting because I remember telling people I go, don't ever ask me about being a commentator or you know, playing senior centers, because that's the last thing I want to do. It's like, you know, dude, that's lame, man. But it gave me an opportunity for people to see me in a different way. I think, you know, I didn't show the type of personality that Skip sees so often on the golf course. Maybe maybe I'm a little funnier that I don't take myself too seriously, And that was when I wasn't showing that too good while I was playing so on as a commentator, I was able to show some different sides in my personality while also hopefully explaining to people what's going on in the tennis court. You know that I knew what was going on there. So that turned out to be a blessing for me, you know, and you know it's in my blood playing tennis. So the opportunity to you still love performing, You go out there, you love it. You don't need to do it, but I got to do that for a long time, you know, my body, And finally, at like sixty, it's like, okay, mister McEnroe, come this way, because you're never going to play another singles match as long as it live. Okay, thank you, you know, because it's hard to say no to that in ay, especially when they're you know, paying you more mine than he deserved the gat. So for the most part, I've you know, I think that the time, having kids, going through a you know, divorce, having a second chance, a second marriage has been successful. All these life lessons have helped me get to a better place. Actually, I believe where I feel like I'm in a way more fulfilled than I've ever been.
You know, John and I when people say what kept you going and how did you keep that energy and being positive? I said, you know, a lot of it's revenge. They look at me and I remember you said in the past that anger can be used in positive ways. Do you feel that it's made you a better player or worse player? That it was not a factor at all?
Well, it made me a better player most of the time. When I was younger. I think when I had kids, I felt more like, why am I doing this? Because I don't need to be doing this. I'm evolving, hopefully as a person and changing. But it felt like it was almost like a cigarette smoker that couldn't quit, and then people sort of expected it, you know. So I mean, I said, you cannot be serious once in a fifteen year career, and there's not a day that goes by that someone doesn't say that to me. And I'd go on the Seniors Tour, for example. I played twenty five years on that tour more or less, and I could hit a great what I thought was a great shot, and people would, you know, polight applause, And then if I yell you can't be serious, and you know, they yeah, you know, they all look crazy, and I'm like, and then I got to the point I'd say it kiddingly, but it's half true. I didn't get paid unless I said it. It's like, what, this is pathetic, but it's also awesome them at the same time. Maybe that's the way life is sometimes.
You know John Highton son Ethan, he's been playing tennis a long time, won trophies, and one day came he said, data want to go pro. And you know from legacy and you know a few of the guys I know, they said, don't let him do it. It's the most toughest life to send a kid out and become a pro what's your feeling on that? And he's kind of backed off.
Now, Well, you know, this is a this is an issue that is obviously been around the sports and other entertainment thing your line of work, I think entertainment in general, maybe all walks of life. You know that you feel like the mental health aspect, I mean, bord quit never played a major after twenty five. I mean, do you think that had anything to do with a lot of these things that were going on. It wasn't just like he quit. There was a lot of other things that I won't get into, will take too long, But you know, Naomi Osaka came and you know she could handle it in certain ways that fear of failure gets so overwhelming, you know, for a lot of Nick Curios is a great example to me, one of the most talented guys that's been in our sport in ten fifteen years, and half the time it feels like he can't even try. Why is that? You know, so you you admire guys like Nadal that can go out and bring it and you know, like every shot. Jimmy Connors was like that. We we butted heads and we didn't like each other a lot of the time, but I sure respected what he brought to the court, and that's how Nadal is now. And so I look in Naomia Soaka. She obviously had some issues. I said. My attempt at a joke was, I it's tough making seventy million a year. I mean, I don't know how you can handle.
That's Jesus nice, that's rough.
So and then Simone biles that gymnasts had the same thing, and you know, but the problem with that is, and I think it's good that, especially with the pandemic where people were freaking out and that affected a lot of people, keeping them in more than the actual as it turned out, the you know, the virus in itself is you know, now, every time I see Naomi Osaka, and I think other people they you look at her even more carefully. Is she okay? And she looked good about competing how she feels? You know, you're all looking at that. And I don't think that she wants people to look at her that way. But I respect what she tried to do. I hope it works out. But this has been going on in sports for you know, ever since sports started, especially when money came into it.
Yeah, John a question you brought her up. I wasn't going to Jimmy, Jimmy our boy, Jimmy who butt it heads? Did you ever hear the record I recorded and did with Howard Cosell on the television?
Yes? You?
Did you hear the duet?
We did?
Yes? I did.
If I knew you were playing guitar.
I said, sick to his day, you should ask me to play guitar with you.
I was gonna say I wanted you to come in. I didn't know you played back then, I would have asked you that I didn't.
I didn't.
Don't worry, you know, and he didn't.
Quit his day job either. I said, oh man, this is going to be an undertaking. That was a funny. That was one of the toughest things I ever had to do.
Well for your second toughest is if you decide to, you know, write me a tune now.
And we'll you know, I take a chats with you, all.
Right, John mcinn open for Paul Anka and he's got a new new album. Actually I haven't put out any album yet. That was when I was telling you about the album. I wouldn't let him release it, and I remember I had, uh I did all these songs and I'm like, oh my god, the vocals are not quite up to par here. And at one point, this guy Eddie Kramer, who was the engineer for Hendrisy's records. He was around New York and I knew people he knew. He came in and so we listened to these songs he was engineering them, and then I go, Eddie, you got to fix those vocals. And he's like, that's not what I do, Mike, you know, And I'm like, what do you mean, That's not what you do. That's what they tell like you came for. I was like, yeah, you're out of here, forget it. So I never you know, if I can get Patty to sing, that'd be. Actually my goal was because all my girls are good singers. I have four, four girls, and Patty, I mean, they seem just natural, so might My goal was always to be the Partridge family, you know, together, and we're gonna do it. So it's not looking good.
Though, So John, if I took in the studio we messed around, would you bless it? If we had something good? Can you sing? I mean, you know, with otto, I.
Stay in tune, let's put it that way. But I'm not a very good singer. I wish I could tell you I'm good. I do gigs. I just played at Indian Wells. At the event, Patty sang a couple with me. I sing some, but that's only because I couldn't get the sing. My goal was always to be like Carlos Intana, you know, to be the guitar player, sort of the pseudo leader, but not be the singer. I like to sing like backup vocals. I'm not a you know I'm in. I like to a decent backup vocalist.
Well, I'd love to hear your stuff. I'd just be curious we would have gotten No, you wouldn't, No, you wouldn't. I'll be the judge of that. Listen, I got Warren Buffett to sing, and I'll leave it at that.
Wow, I thought I got Jimmy Buffett to sing on the tap. Oh what Warren Buffett? Okay, maybe I have a chance that I might be as good as Warren possible.
Well, I can tell you you without hearing you you probably are, but I love to hear your work.
I'll wrap it up this way. This is a guy who can do whatever he sets his mind to and I mean that, and I mean that sincerely. He is just you know, when he spoke at Stanford, he talked to the kids about pivoting. I mean, he knows how to pivot, he knows how to do He's just multi dimensional. This is a guy that you know, known as being you know, one of the great tennis players of all time, turns around becomes one of the great broadcasters in the sport of all time. And you know we talked about earlier about his art collecting and his music is foundation. I mean, you know, there are other guys that we know we won't name names. You know, they sort of rest on their laurels, right, they reach a certain level of accomplishment and then that's it. Hey, I had a good run, I got plenty of money. Now see you later. Not this guy.
Thanks a lot of ski I love you man, thank you. I appreciate you saying.
I love I love you too so much, and we really appreciate you taking the time. He's got it. Oh, it was a lot of fun with your crazy schedule running here, running there, and you're always on your way to the airport, going one place or another. And Paul and I appreciate it absolutely Paul.
Great talking to you.
Yeah, you too, John. I really appreciate you coming on and being a good friend of my buddy Curly Feathers there. He talks about you all the time.
I remember that, Curly Feathers. I like that.
But be well, John, I hope to see us somewhere around the music trailer, somewhere in life and proud of what you've accomplished.
You know.
I think the challenges that you've had in front of you, they're all behind you now. And you've got a good family, which is where it's at today. That's number one. All this other bullshit, Okay Man, thank you.
Seem m.
I'm about.
Our Away with Paul, Anka and Skip Bronson is a production of iHeart Radio.
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