For their debut episode, Paul and Skip welcome podcasting pro Jason Bateman of 'SmartLess' — who just happens to be Paul's son-in-law! It's a family affair as Jason reveals the nerve-wracking moment he asked the music legend to marry his daughter, why his kids struggle to watch his movies, and the time his sister Justine was cast on 'Arrested Development' as his love interest (ewww). He also opens up about sneaking his way into his very first audition, making the switch to drama and directing on 'Ozark,' the truth about his deepest fears, and the time he had Joe Biden call Paul — which almost ended in disaster!
Our Way with yours Truly Paul Anka and my buddy Skip Bronson is a production of iHeartRadio. Hi, folks, my name is Paul Anka.
And my name is Skip Bronson. We've been friends for decades and we've decided to let you in on our late night phone calls by starting a new podcast.
Welcome to Our Way, and we'd like you to meet some really good friends books.
They're leaders in entertainment and.
Sports, innovators in business and technology, and even a sitting president or two.
Join us as we ask the questions they've not been asked before, Tell it like it is, and even sing a song or two.
This is our podcast and we'll be doing it our Way. Hey, Skip, I want to it just sound like with bubbles. It's pouring here, flooding all over Westlake.
You know, Hey, I'm doing you know what, Paul.
They're talking about it like it's going to be an epic storm, but so far it's just getting a little bit of rain. But last time, you know, the animals were lining up in pairs, so I'm hoping it's not like that. So meanwhile, in other things, we've got Jason, your son in law, coming on to do the.
Podcast and how excited a mine. Man, he's coming out to the house and you're gonna love him. Well, you know, man, he's all over you at the golf course. He always calls me about the laughs you guys have you and we're going to.
Get into that with him, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, that'll be fun. You know.
I have to tell you the funny thing about him.
The two things that resonated with me.
Number One, if you're wearing something that he likes, he'll say, Wow, that sweater.
Where'd you get that sweater?
He says it in a way that you can feel obligated to go out and buy one for him.
Should do.
Then you've got a great response from Matthew. But my other favorite thing with him is it doesn't matter like what you've done in your career, matter how many shopping centers you developed like I did back East, or the tallest building between New York and Boston, or you know, working in the casino industry and developing casino projects.
Say hey, you know what, nobody knows what you do.
I do.
I'm like, really, really, no one?
You know that's the younger set.
Skip, No, it's him, it's him.
And his busting.
He's one of the great busters of all time.
Yeah, exactly, But you know we got to do he's a golf addictation. Got to tell him the story of you and Michael Jordan when you played and.
Beat him out of all that money. Make a make a note of that, make a note.
You got to talk to about that, kick out of that.
That's great.
You know know the thing I want to do I don't ask estation about you know, the way he you it was okay to marry a man.
I'd love to hear that story, So that'll be Yeah.
I got a note on that too.
The other thing, you know, with of course getting your smash ship, but we got to talk about arrested development.
And you know how that came about. Yeah, and SmartLess of course is.
Like the smash podcast of all time.
He's having to blast with that.
So how about a glass that they sold it for millions?
I saw?
Yeah, I mean that that eases up for me. I don't that's one or less of five girls that have to take care of Not that I wouldn't, you know.
I'm happy for them in their swing and then they deserve it. You we'll have fun with him.
Skip we'll have no, it's gonna be great, all right, And I'll catch up with you later.
Yeah, I'll catch you later.
And don't go out, don't get on your arc yet, and I'll let you know if I can escape my driveway with the gate.
And everything, and I'll talk to you more.
You know. I love you, Yeah, love you to stay warm. Okay, So tomorrow bye.
It is a pleasure to be here.
Thanks you coming to know each other.
Yeah, a little bit. We do go back? How long? What is it? Twenty four years? I want to say twenty.
Yeah.
I was living up on Mulholland, which was about twenty four years ago, and Amandam, the wonderful Amanda, for the first time came home with a serious, serious boyfriend.
Now did you know that I was serious before I showed up? Like? Did she prep you? Like, Dad? This could be the one?
Yeah?
Really?
What she say, Dad? This could be the one?
Something like that?
You must have told her us.
I just told her just include the D part V. Jason Bateman V one Yeah.
Well no, to qualify for everyone out there, I got the greatest son in right here. I'm not only even blessed with some great children, but I got the greatest while here. So this is kind of a different trip for me being on this side of the mic, because one of my great experiences this year was sitting with you guys. Yeah, a great time. I mean, it was a big month for me, Bill Burr, you guys coming off of Howard Stern, I mean, what's next, right? But anyway, Manna comes home and I know she's in love, and I do the homework. I guess R. J. Wagner introduced you guys.
Yeah, you have something like that somebody in the Wagner family, Katie or Natasha.
Yeah.
Yeah, So I was hipped as something was up and everybody got it together and the next thing I know, I went for the expensive wedding.
Yeah, yeah you did. And you're saying you changed my way into his way, Yeah, and saying that. Somebody was talking to me the other day they're going to propose to their girlfriend, and I talked to him about He said, well, shouldn't I fly the mom and dad in for the moment I proposed? I said, no, what are you talking? But that's going to be your moment with you and your and your your fiance. But you do it might not be bad to do the traditional talk to dad first and say I'd like to I'm going to ask your daughter. We had that conversation, didn't we? We did help my small brain.
Yeah, how did that go?
Where was that?
Remind me of it? I think it was it was up at the house.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like was I over there with a manager? I pull you into a side room. Why am I? I must have been so nervous, I blacked out.
Yeah, you've been going through a few things at that time. You were calibrating. May I say that? Yeah, yeah, a recalibration. I think I'm still in it, Yeah, very successfully. May I add, and which you know I was hip too. But you know it goes back to I mean off point. You know, I started at fourteen, and you know, God knows what an amazing career you had ten and it's you know, people just don't understand when you start at that age. You know, none of us are from sophisticated backgrounds, None of us, any singer I've met, anybody that I was a fan of. We all come from these modest backgrounds. And when that shit is thrown at you and you have to deal with success in that abnormal premise of life, it ain't easy.
It's not easy, and you're looking to make it easy in a situation that's challenging mentally, spiritually and complicating everything is that you're in such a permissive environment as you're becoming famous. People are allowing you to be not your best self, and gravity is pulling you towards not your best self to compensate for the challenges of all the mental and spiritual stuff. So yeah, you need good people around you to try to carve out a groove that is functional, that will sustain you, know, such you don't have to make a bunch of apologies as you really do get your feet under you over a couple of years. So yeah, it's.
You're crawling, Yeah, crawling through life. I found to you get to some juncture of wisdom where you're able to compute what's going on to say, wait a minute.
Did that come quick enough for you or did you have I certainly had some challenge, you know.
Yeah, you've had challenges, You've overcome yours. Mine. It was a little different because I came out of the fifties. Yeah, so it was a different.
Time, less challenging.
Do you think, well, it was.
Challenging in certain ways. But I was protected at a great family, good father and mother, even though I lost my mom at eighteen, great guy in Irving Feld who is my manager. But you know I saw a ship around this. I mean I had guys on the bus when we're a tour shooting up heroin. I won't mention who, but the drugs were around.
I mean, well the weekends weakens. Skip, good that you're still with us, you know, from the from that bus with the needles all the way to the.
He knows all about that. I'm you know, back back in your turf off of that. What interested me? I've seen Jason do all these amazing things and then all of a sudden out of nowhere. You know, Amanda rarely calls me with any big items. She's just she's a sweetheart. Dad chasing the state of playing golf. Can you believe it? He's gonna play golf? And you got to tell your friend Skip, whatever he can do, we don't want him playing golf. I'm going to Amantha.
Skip ended up being a great lubricant to get me into the club.
He's the guy, Skip, and you know the rest of the story. How did you maneuver that? I mean, how how did that all fit into that flow? You guys were into.
What's that golf? Golf?
I mean, that's time consumer, it's.
Very time consuming. But I don't do anything else unless i'm working. You know, there's probably no coincidence that a lot of actors play golf because you're either acting right where you're working at least twelve hours a day or you're doing zero. You know, you're literally trying to figure out how to get some days behind you on your way to your next job. You're constantly getting hired and fired. So for me, and I hope this doesn't sound like spin, it does to Amanda, but it's sincere. It's so challenging to me golf that it actually keeps me mentally sharp because it's so hard for me. So it's a very challenging thing for me to do while I'm waiting to get hired to go do something equally challenging, which is for me directing. Acting is super comfortable, but directing is fully immersive.
We'll get to that after. It's amazing what you're doing with that. But then you got baseball. I mean, you love your but you're not in any short term copies. These are.
I watch every Dodger game, but I'll split it up over you know, you know, twenty four hours. I'll watch a few innings before I go to bed, and then a little more in the morning. I'm also the commissioner in my fantasy baseball league. So it's all, it's all very attractive stuff. Women go crazy when they hear all this stuff, like.
It's not a sexy sport, you baseball is sexy?
I don't it is. Well, first of all, it's a game, I think, not a sport, you know.
But of all the games, I mean, it's not the sexiest game out there.
No, it's it's not. It doesn't doesn't attract real supreme elegance like like basketball. But anyway, I dig it. I dig the history of it.
I have a story about that because golf has always been an important part of my life, and I might argue that i'd be in, you know, a psychiatrist's office if not for golf. Some some people go to psychiatrists because of the way they play golf. But you're talking about golf first, you know, sport versus game. So when I was involved with Steve Win developing you know, casino resorts, Steve had an idea to build the greatest exclusive golf course in America called Shadow Creek.
Yeah, amazing, one of account and took me out there once.
Yeah yeah, And at the time, no one had ever spent twenty five million dollars on a golf course. This was seventy five million dollars. Incredible, incredible place. And one day Steve's brother in law, Mike Paskell, said to me that Michael Jordan was coming out, was the height of his career early nineties. He wanted to play the golf course. Said would you like to play with him? I said, are you kidding? He said, you know, he likes to play for a lot of money. I figured, look, whatever I lose to him would be less than what I would be in a celebrity auction to play golf with Michael Jordans, So who cares?
So off we go, go to play golf.
And with golf being the great equalizer, as it turns out, I wounded up beating him no hand of the round. Yeah, the end of the round, We're standing behind the eighteenth green and I said, you know, golf is just an incredible sport. It's the only sport where just a businessman like me could beat a world class athlete like you.
And he looked at me and he went, yeah, fucking amazing. And I wanted to say, no, no, no. What I meant is what could I beat you at? Running? No, swim, no throwing a ball?
No?
But golf? You know?
So? Well?
What was that?
What was the handicap breakdown? Do you remember at the.
Time we were both we were both I was a sixth and he was a sixth.
Oh really?
And at that time he I was amazed because he would hit some shots like a tour player and then it would take him two to get out of a bunker. But later that night I walked into the casino and there's a commotion going on. I said to one of the casino hosts, what's going on? He said, oh, Michael Jordan's over there playing in the casino. I said, oh wow. So I walk over in his direction and I get within about thirty feet of him, and his head, of course, is above everybody else, and it's like a periscope and he sees me and he calls me.
Over and I think, whows some of that money? Again?
No, this is cool. I'm being called out by Michael Jordan's, so I walk over to him. He said, hey, Skip, You know, I was thinking about what you said to me at the end of the round. He said, Golf's not a sport, it's a game. Because it was sport, you couldn't fuck beat right, It's true. And I thought to myself, who did I get in his This was like six or seven hours later he was still there. But of course that's his competitive nature, right.
Well, he was. It was all over Vegas every time. You know, I was there. Everyone in town wanted to play with him because everybody beat him. When I tell you, it's one hundred thousand a game, two hundred thousand. I don't think he ever won as much as he lost. And everyone wanted to play with Michael Pitt, bosses, Bill Hops because they all want all the time.
You're talking about the tables or on the golf court, on the golf course.
Really, oh yeah, but think about money to this day when they do the lists.
I just saw Charles Barkley did a list of the greatest basketball players, and when he gets to number one, you already know who it is, right, you know, before it's over, you know who the number one is. You could argue, you know who's the greatest athlete and given sport but basketball, it's Michael.
He's the guy.
And what a life this guy has made fro him self and golf is still a critically important part of his life, you know, if he's still probably, But you know, are you still a sex?
No?
What do you know?
I think I'm eight index.
An eight index would put you at about age twelve or.
Thirteen, maybe both depends from what tea is either a ten or twelve ring from what tease and Paul.
You avoided the addiction, right? You never you never.
Lost a caddy, you know. I guess that that killed me. With golf. I made like three bucks a week and I worked at the shoddier golf club and I was a caddy, but they didn't have the you know, the carts. And I was carrying these goddamn bags every weekend and make three bucks. But my cousin was a great golfer. But I said, what is this? Gave me fucking crazy, and I kept carrying these bags. I went home. I think I slept like for two days. Thank god, I took up piano and music instead of golf.
I would it so much time in Vegas and these incredible places around the world that probably mean you live on a freaking golf course right now.
I know, I you know I played, but you know I wasn't getting this satisfaction. You know, when I decided when you're a writer, well, you know you can address this. When you're a writer and you're doing music and you're that young and you're traveling like I was, I didn't have the time.
Yeah, it is a time to go out and do it.
So I said, I'll go do tennis. So I'd go hit a tennis ball for about an hour and a half. I started really young, and today I still play tennis. I play with my son Ethan pickleball. But golf, you know, I get it. It's just I don't have the time to do and if I can't be a certain caliber and something, and it's so frustrated.
You know what I find.
I find at this stage. It used to be that I cared more about what I shot than who I played with, And now I care more about who I play with than what I'm going to shoot, because I mean, I've had rounds in the sixties, I've done everything you can do in golf.
I'm not going to be able to do that anymore.
I said to Jason A few weeks ago, I sent him a text and I said, playing golf with two of the guys that you were really liked. Play with John McEnroe, right, and Doc Rivers if you want to play? And he wrote back, sounds good. Let me check. Now I know what that's code for talking to Amanda, right, So he said, let me check. Then he wrote back, I just found out in babysitting. So I'm wondering, is he really babysitting or is he doesn't want to play? But then I thought it's Jason. Of course he wants to play. He always wants to play.
Yeah, he's got the greatest kids. I tell you, Maple and Franny. I mean to watch watch any of your grandchildren go from ya all the way up into adulthood. I love you, and they are. I spoke to Francesca because we check in with each other. Now. I've got a grandshaw.
You call her.
She's in Paris, south of France, right. So I was asking her the other day. I said, so, what's going on? I said, oh, it is Idy. I want to go to colleges, I said, when you're going, she says, a few weeks. So she gave me a couple I said, I think I can help you. We'll put that aside. So I said, have you ever watched any of Dad's shows? Have you watched Ozark? She said, we just started watching. I've seen the first series. Really, Jason, tell me about it, Me tell you about me. Yeah, I'll watch you hear your take on it on her watching. Yeah.
You know, what's interesting about both of them is that they have zero desire to see anything I've done. Like it's it's like pulling teeth. I mean, I sort of grossed myself out by getting caught up in trying to convince them to watch something that I'm in because it sounds like, you know, I'm dying for them to sit there and fawn over me and what I've done. But it's just super curious. Like if I if they were on something in something or Amanda or you or skin anybody I know, I would be curious. They I think it's weird for them to watch me pretend to be somebody different than their.
Death than they know.
Yeah, like that, it's just it's it's it's odd. In fact, they we have some some friends that are also on television or movies or whatever that that they're very close with, that they knew years before they like, for instance, Anniston, Franny thought Jennifer Aniston just sold hair products, Yeah, because she saw some hair products around her house that that she was, you know, selling or whatever. She didn't know she was an actor until. I mean, Franny was probably twelve before she knew that gen was on TV. And so now when you talk to her about it's all she doesn't even really want to watch Friends or something like all that they have and they and they do, but it's, uh, it's an interesting thing anyway. So she likes what she sees, uh, and she's actually interested in directing. So we talk a bit about that. But then I said to her the other day, I go, you know, it's amazing to me that you're interested in directing and you really want to find out what it's all about. Yet you have no interest in seeing the things that your father has directed, where I could tell you firsthand information about how that shot was created, when I had the idea for that, or what's the apparatus behind her It's just she'd rather learn through other things.
Yes, well, you're really into directing now, I mean, you love your acting. Still, every time we've talked, directing has got you sizzled. What's the buzz for you on that? Is it working with the actors or is it the technical or booth?
It is both, but it's mostly as I'll bet you know anybody can relate to in any occupation. You know, the extent to which you can help shape and experience for a customer, it is really really exciting. You do it with with writing music. Skip. We're going to get into what whatever the hell it is you do? No one, no one can, no one can figure it out. I've talked to a lot of people. My wife's included, Yeah, I mean it, but they know I do it. Well, oh you're you're the keg and so we'll go yeah, but what what is it?
I don't know.
I don't know.
But if you want something done in this world, you go to Skip Bronson. But you know it's yeah, it's creating fake life such that it is convincing right that it feels real to someone who's watching it, and then you kind of spike it a bit so that it's not only just real, which takes ninety percent of the work, but that it's also interesting and compelling. It's either funny or it's dramatic, and that you know, takes a visual component or musical component, or a performance component or editorial strategy or whatever it is. You have all these in front of you like a mixing board of music, and you can raise up this or that to help move the audience a little left, a little right and not. You know, control is sort of a pejorative. I don't mean it as one, but it is that that control, that challenge of control where you are sort of dictating what the audience is seeing through that little paper tube that you know, I grew up looking through a little paper towel, you know tube you know, or you kind of like And that's kind of to me.
What's still not easy? But who are the guys that that you hate the word admire, But who are the guys that really do that well for you?
Family?
Kubrick was one. I love David Fincher.
You've always talked about Fincher.
Yeah, I just find his is aesthetic and his taste, the things that sort of get him excited with composition or even color, temperature and all this other stuff.
So when you did Nike it must have been a blast working with.
Ben Affleck, and yeah, he's been.
Did you learn from that?
It was nice to see another actor directing. He seems to enjoy the efficiency of that like I do when I direct when I'm acting, in that I'm in the scene with the other actors, so I can kind of direct them while we're performing, or I can help make a camera move work by adjusting where I'm standing because I noticed the camera's a little out of position. And so these things are fun challenges for me. And he seems to understand the process and is so comfortable with the process that he's able to take on, you know, a lot of things while he in between action and cut. When he's acting, he's also helping with the directing.
So it's when you were around Ron Howard on development. So that was But you did Did you direct at eighteen?
Yeah? The first The first thing I did was an episode of a show I was doing when I was eighteen called The Hogan Family, which it started with Valerie Harper. It was called Valerie then it was Valerie Family Valeri's family than the Hogans and the Hogan Family. And yeah, I directed an episode of that when I was eighteen, and that was you know, that's in front of a studio audience, so there's more of a proscenium, right, sort of an edge like a like a theater, and the cameras stay on the outside of that edge, actors on the inside. So the directing of it is much like directing a play more so than directing a film that's shot with just one camera. So it was a little bit different, not quite as complicated as directing single camera.
Where did you finish high school?
On a second, never finished high school.
For two years.
I do not sound like.
I finished at MGM and the Black Lot. I was doing a movie called Girls Down was made Van Doren. Wow, and I was hot.
Yeah, that sounds better than the film I was doing too.
And I finished. I was a kid named Jay North who was doing Dennis a Menace, Oh really, And he and I were in class and I got my diploma. So you never got a diploma for no.
I was doing Team Wolf two during the final period of my senior year, and so I had to do my finals while we were shooting, and the shooting schedule was such that I didn't have time to finish two of my four finals, and so I was an incomplete and you know, I remember going to the headmaster.
I don't know.
Months afterwards, I was driving by the school and I pulled over and just kind of unannounced, went into his office and I said, I said, mister makeoff, I don't get my diploma. I mean I finished the classes. I just didn't take two of the finals. Yeah no, sorry, I said, well, he said you can take the ged I said, well, no, can we think about it. Months later, I got a solicitation from them to donate to the school. So I called him back. I said, well, do you want to check but yeah, yeah, well yeah, So talk about luck for a second.
I mean, as a real estate developer, I got a lucky break.
Paul. He's an officially a real estate developer, that's the official one, but everything from shopping centers to casinos and everything in between.
Paul and I have talked about hit the lucky brakes that he's gotten. So what was the lucky break for you?
Well, I would probably say that the biggest break I've ever had was the second break I had, which was arrested development. The first one was Little House in the Prairie when I was ten. That was kind of the first big job I had, but you know, I kind of rode. You know, that parlayed into you know, the next job and the next job, and then doing comedy and doing sitcoms and things like that, and then things really kind of got quiet for me during my twenties, and it was hard to get back into any sort of level of success or access or relevance. And then Arrested Development came around, and that was a show that well, it wasn't really seen as a big hit across the country. It was it was a big hit amongst those who hand out jobs here in Hollywood.
Yeah.
And DVD sales, yeah, and DV details, Yeah, very big.
But your dad was an actor. I didn't realize your dad was an actor.
Actor, writer, producer, director. Yeah.
But did you grow up in Ryan, New York.
No.
I was born there till I was and lived there till I was two, then Boston till four, then Salt Lake City till seven, and then La. But once we got to La, I was old enough to go to see movies with my dad. I was finally old enough to kind of appreciate some of the films that he was seeing, or starting to get old enough, and so He would take me to the local art house theaters and show me these, you know movies that I'd have to read subtitles, and they were kind of artsy FARTSI but he would show me what great acting is or great directing is and explain what it is and how it happens. So that when I was ten, we had a neighbor that was reading for a movie and he was on his way to an audition. He was my dad's age, my dad's friend, and he saw me out front in the driveway helping my dad wash the car, and he stopped and maybe assumed that I wasn't too interested in washing the car with my dad, and he asked me if I wanted to go along with him to this audition, just to see how an audition goes. And I said sure. My dad said yeah, go ahead, so we went. I went with him this audition. They were reading for the role of the Sun that same day, and the Sun, the character was the same age as me. He said, hey, why don't you go in and read for the Sun? And I said, I'm not an actor, and he said, here's they give you a little piece of the script, like two or three pages to see if you can act, called the sides right, and he said, just just get head on in there and make it look like you're supposed to be there, and when they say you're not on the list, say that must have been some mistake. So I did that, and I auditioned for it. I got the part, and so I came home. I told my dad and I said, hey, will you take some pictures of me? Let's sendhim into an agency and see if I can get an agent and maybe start reading for some commercials. And so I did. I got, you know, a handful of commercials and they start sending out for bigger stuff.
And I told you you were tending. He said, Dad, let's let's go to get an agent.
Yeah, and I don't. Yeah, I probably said, you know, I like this, maybe I'm good at this. What should we do? He says, well, we should get an agent. I go, how do we do that? You know, well, let's take some pictures, you know, and send them in there. And you know, I had a stupid bowl haircut and you know, a halfway decent smile with a dumb gap between my teeth. I looked like I could sell cereal or something, you know.
Speaking of pictures.
You know, I saw a picture, I saw a picture of your dad, and he said it's Greg Kenar.
He was a lot like, yeah, that's that's right. If that is another fellow golfer, absolutely, huh, yeah, that's right. He does a little bit like Greg Canar. He got Steve McQueen a bit when he was younger. Lucky guy. Yeah, I know, he's he's a he's a great great man. That taught me basically everything that I know and sparked the interest in me. I mean, had he been throwing the ball with me in the park and said, taken me to these movie theaters when I was a kid, maybe I would have gone into sports. It certainly would have been better at golf than I am today.
But you know what's amazing, you started as a child actor if you will, probably don't like the term, but no. Yeah, and then there are child actors like you know Beaver from you know, Leave It to Beaver.
Yeah, and that's it. I mean that's the end of their career.
Yeah.
I had a big career, but that's the end of the career. Yeah, and you taking it all the way through, Yeah it was, and your career has gotten bigger and bigger.
And very very lucky about that, and and that that was part of that big break with the rest of development, because that was that was the first big job I got as an adult. You know, I'd sort of gassed, you know, my sort of my welcome as a as a as a child or a young adult, you know, young actor. There is that transition one needs to make that bridge to adult parts and ask the audience to accept you as somebody with you know, stubble instead of you know, being a little a little tyke. And that that job was really really important for that and I was I was very aware of me too big. Yeah, you could take care of my daughter from there, Oh yeah, because the others I had five son and loss of balance.
I couldn't sign the checks quick enough. That was your big change.
It was nerve wracking. And I don't know if you remember, but when Amanda and I first started thinking about getting married, I was I was living with her, I don't I I think I was broke. I was in debt and were it not for the money that Amanda had made as a voice voiceover artist. She was doing you know, campaigns for you know, ads, doing commercials and doing voices for cartoons and stuff like that. She had a bunch of money that we needed to for the down payment on a house.
I didn't.
Yeah, yeah, you were, so it was it was. It was nerve wracking thinking that the rest of my life might be anti climactic from that which was my youth and arrested development.
It's scary, you know for all of us. You know, people out there just think it's all glamour and we do what we do. But when you get that needle up your arm, you know, of success and all of this stuff that's really abnormal, there's a moment there where you sit and go, God, I don't want this to ever go away. Yeah, it's it's a tough way to live because I kind of two things. When I started as a kid and all of this started to happen, he said, how do I not become an asshole?
Right?
Because people are just catering and doing and you're still trying to find yourself.
Yeah, you got to understand that you wake up alone, you go to sleep alone, or rather you know the things you think about or who you are right when you are trying to go to bed or right when you wake up. That's the person that you need to be comfortable with, and if you've been an asshole all day, you're going to feel bad about yourself when you're going to bed and when you wake up. And so for me, that was kind of the you know, behave in a way that I not that I'm allowed it to be, but that I am I am comfortable being right, because there's a big difference there.
Speaking a difference Jason, the leap over to Ozark into that other character. Yeah, you know from that great wit that I mean lare you had. Was that difficult jumping over into your money launderer? You know it a hole muffia kind of thing. I mean, was there any interrepidation as to anyone around you? Are you saying I can pull this off?
Yeah? Well, you know, what I do as a as an actor in comedy versus as an actor in drama are not terribly different. And I'm not trying to be modest. It's just I like to play us, right. So the comedic character I play is usually pretty close to the median, and that the dramatic character I play is usually close to the to the middle as well. In that I'm I'm usually not the guy farting, I'm the guy reacting to the fart, you know. Or in drama, I'm not the guy with the knife. I'm the guy running from the knife, you know. So I'm the The move that I make from doing comedic acting to dramatic acting is not a big, huge swing for me, and thus I feel not a lot to ask the audience to buy as long as I'm not trying to be wacky comedy or super scary drama guy.
And a lot of a lot of actors can't pull it off.
Yeah I don't. I don't mind doing those big swings, but I enjoy more being us. I like being the person that's sort of the proxy for the audience. And it's probably why I'm attracted to directing, because again, I'm I've got the audience in my hands, and I'm I'm trying to identify or declare what this scene is about, what you should be receiving as an audience in this scene. And then when I'm acting in something i'm directing, I've kind of got two hands on the wheel, so I can I can therefore take on things that have a little bit more of a specific creative tone or objective and feel decent about the ability to hit that small target. Since I'm on camera and behind the cameras.
So questioned all that, you know, the music business is going through a lot of change, and where are you at with the coming it's here anyway artificial intelligence? What are the intelligencia thinking as the oops, Yeah, there's some changes coming and it could be this, and here's what's going to happen, and here's in and here's out. What's your feeling on.
That, because it's real, it's to be honest, I'm not as educated on it as I would need to be to really take a firm position, you know, either worried or confident. My sister is super educated on it. She's got a very strong opinion about whether it's it's a healthy thing or not a healthy thing. I don't. I don't know nearly as much as she does about it. But my general instinct is that it's going to be challenging for sure, but that the net will be great for everyone eventually. And the comparison I will make is what you were saying, which is the music industry. It was uncomfortable at the beginning. Artists like yourself had to realize uncomfortably that you're not gonna be making any money selling albums anymore in comparison to the two years past, and that you'd have to pivot and adapt to maybe more touring or more merchandise or whatever the other lanes are of monetization. That we're not being automated or we're not being affected as much through technology, because you know, the automotive industry went through it. You know, all these assembly line workers, they were, you know, kicking and screaming as they should have been about losing their jobs to automation and you know, robots and whatnot. But it just took some time for them, i'm sure, or to retrain and adapt to another area of the business that they could make a living in, because you can't stop these you know, bosses from saying, oh, this robot can do the job of ten workers, so you're out of a job.
Well, it's going to be a whole new infra social You mentioned your sister. You know, I follow you on television and I'm listening to you all the time, right with that great wit and you you always have an answer. But one interview you did let me think Howard Stern. You were on with Howard Stern and he you know Howard. I mean, he's the best at what he does. And he said he got on the subject of your sister and you and acting and skipp. He said, oh yeah, let me ask you this, if you would you cast your sister as your lover? Can you stick your tongue in her mouth? He did the full menu. Do you remember that interview?
I think so, but again I was probably too nervous to remember all of it. But my answers was what.
It was great. I mean, you got out of you you jive to the left and then to the right. He kept saying, you're changing the subject, and you said, yeah, if we were acting and and she was doing the part, absolutely I do. He said, you would you know, how are you piled everything? Well, I'm surprised you were amazing the way you answered it.
I'm surprised my answer wasn't already did it because because we did too late. I remember when we were doing Arrested Development, the showrunner and I Mitch Hurwitz, we were talking about how to get Justine on the show. I think the fans were asking for it or something. We're trying to figure out what would be a fun way to bring her on, and him being you know, the genius sort of crazy creative minding, he said, well, why don't we bring her on as a whore and you hire her as the whore prostitute. I was like, huh, how would that work? So so she came on arrested development as a high class call girl that I hired, if I'm remembering correctly, And there may have even been a moment where we didn't lean in towards each other to kiss each other, but I think there was tension in a scene about maybe that we might something like that. It's a long time ago, but I remember that being like, oh my god, we're gonna bring Justine on and she's going to be a prostitute that I hire, and it ended up working. It was pretty funny.
Yeah, but that Howard really stuck out in my mind. He knows how to ask a question, yeah, and you know how to answer them too. You're fast in your feet.
Speaking of interviews, let's talk about your podcasts for a minute. Just one of the top podcasts in the in the whole.
World, until you guys go past.
Whose idea was it to furst due podcast?
Will Arnett said to me one day he said, you know, I'm gonna do a podcast. I go really, He said yeah. I said why because our buddy Dax Shepherd is making so much money at it. He goes, eh, you know, but now what I want to do? I said, I said, well, what's it about? He goes, I think he said it was going to be something about sobriety or something. He's going to call it the Journey. I said that sounds fucking boring. It was going to sounds like a hiking show. I said, tell you what, you do, whatever you want, but let me be on it. I'm going to be on it with Gil show. I said, I'm going to be on it with you, and we're going to get some of that Dak's money. He says, no, no, no, you're not invited. It's just going to be mine. I said no, no, I said, I'm doing it. He said, no, you're not. I said I'm doing it. And I think I like I left the room or something. Then I ran into Sean Hayes the next night at some at some party, and and I decided to tease him a little bit, try to get him jealous. And I told him that Will and I were going to go do a podcast. So I want, I want, I'm in. I said no, No, I said, I'm in. I'm a great call Will. So I told Will, I said, you know, heads up, Sean's Sean's coming in. He's going to be on it too. He goes, no, God, damn it, it's mine. So Sean ended up asking his folks at his production company to just run the numbers about what the lift would be, you know, financially and time wise, and what the possible upside might be. And this was during COVID and we were already you know, zooming a lot, just to stay in contact. And so he said, you know, my guys came up with some real interesting numbers. If you guys want to come in and let them, just tell us. And Will was like, no, Jesus, what do I I'm I'm this is my pot, so just come here. So we will. So we go into his office and the three of us listen to his someone on his staff kind of break down what it would be. And basically it was what we were doing already, you know, a zoom for an hour or whatever, and and so we started doing it during COVID and people started listening and it was just shocking the first time I realized people really were listening was we had Paul McCartney on the show and it was he was Sean's guest. And after Paul McCartney left and we do sort of a wrap up, I said to Sean, I said, how do you know Paul McCartney. He says, I don't. He called us.
Wow, that's a key.
But I mean that that was that it indicated that, okay, if a Beatle is going to do a podcast, apparently we are one. That his people were suggesting that. So that was that was pretty scary to me.
Actually, so you don't use a booker per se, right, you each you find you have must have a booker.
We have.
We have somebody, Michael Grant Terry is our producer. I suppose that does many things, one of which is to book the guests. And what we do is the guest is a mystery to two of the other guys. So we take turns inviting guests on, and we don't tell the other two who we're bringing on, so that you don't have to do any homework, no prep whatsoever.
They're wrecking.
Huh.
No.
In cases, it's not too bad because there's no obligation for the other two to ask any questions.
You know.
It's like if I bring on, you know, Joe Blow, I got to have a bunch of questions for Joe, and the other guys can chime in when they think of something to ask Joe, but they need not.
So that's not uncomfortable at the time.
No, it's it's fantastic.
So there wasn't one guess that was really challenging where you went, you know.
I mean we do it via zoom, so we have our computers in front of us, and you know, you can see Will and Sean, you know, typing away furiously with you know, into the Google machine to try to find out what it is about, you know, my guest that they might be interested in.
You scared the hell out of me. Excuse me for you ruugh you yeah, yeah, I mean I almost got very vile because you guys prank each other. You know, you get on it, which is great, you like, get this call right and I'm hip to the show and I'm a huge fan and it's my guy, you know, and uh, it's about five thirty in the afternoon a few months ago, and Jason gets on. He so I'm doing the podcast from a hotel over here, and somebody wants to talk to you. I do it out of nowhere. So really, I'm saying, okay, they're pranking me. Says okay, I'll go with this guy gets on the phone. He says, Hi, this is the President of the United States, Joe Biden.
You knowing me.
I was going, get the fuck out here.
I think I think your answer was he was silence you okay, okay, like someone's pretty good at doing this depression. And then and then he went on.
To he said, I wasn't gonna do this interview with these guys, so I got to talk to Jason's father in law. Yeah, I'm a fetal right right then, and I'm putting it together. I'm going, wow, wow, that was what you guys? Yeah, that was That was another that was actually another incoming call. It was stunning.
It was a year after Sir Paul and uh we got a call from the White House saying that, you know, the President's going to be in town. He wants to do a podcast. He wants to be here again. Could not believe it, but anyway, we had to go to a remote site in a hotel to do it in his room, and he when he walked into there, and we were already in the room set up Mike's were ready to go. And then the President comes in and he comes in holding his iPhone and he's got Paul's one of your songs playing from the phone song and I said, I.
Said, I said, is it having my baby? He said, it was my Way, wasn't it. I don't remember which one.
I mean, it's sobody to pick from it, but he you're You're one of his favorites. And he had it just on his phone as like a ring tone or whatever it is. Yeah, And I said, I said, oh my god, he'd be so thrilled to know that. He goes, well, let's call him, let's tell him, And that's how that phone call happened. And I just hit your number on speaker and away he went, I'm so glad you were around to get the call. So is I.
Yeah, but that was a cool call. Thank you.
Yeah.
But bucket list guest somebody that you haven't had.
I'd love to have Howard on. He would be great.
But I don't even want to get him the studio.
Why. I didn't need to because it's zoom, and I has to drive all the way out here to your goddamn house.
You know you look the same. What do you what do.
You film here?
Do problem?
Well?
Loser in a few months, and you know I'm playing a loser, so I'm nailing it with this long hair. Well. I don't start shooting for another five months, so there's gonna be another five months of growth on this.
Wow to that To that point, I was going to ask, is there anything that really worries you other than hair loss?
Yes, not to not to be maudlin, but this, you know, is we are all sort of on the backside of our arc. We're closer to death and birth. I start to worry about the arbitrary illnesses that you know, like you know, you can't you don't catch cancer. You know, it's just it's in us all and it just gets turned on or not arbitrarily for the most part to everyone. And and that's some mortality. It doesn't scare me as much as it as well. It's just you know, it's it's it's an annoying distraction. And when you're busy galloping towards you know, the finish of life, you're enjoying you just hope that it you know that it's a gentle descent and you.
Can deal Jason with most of that stuff. That cancer is the tough one.
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's plenty of things that will take you out that are not fantastic.
It's preventative.
You have to do.
You have to live a certain lifestyle, you run every day. Well, yeah, we're on the verge of some stuff.
Yeah, that would be nice.
There's some medical discoveries that are coming up where you're going to add on to your life.
And by the way, AI is playing a big role in that.
I'm involved at you a medical center, Department of Neurosurgery active over there, and they're talking about the fact that, you know, the amount of intelligence that they were able to garner sort of doubled every five years. Now it's doubling every six months. And AI is playing such an incredible role in figuring stuff out there because it's all about you know, we talk about early detection. It's all about it's.
Actually pretty surprising if you think about it, that we don't yet have a cure for all cancers. I mean, we have very effective treatments, as we do for HIV, and whatnot. But you would think that with all of the money and time and brain power that's gone into this, that that we still can't lick that one, and we still we still don't know fully how the brain works or what the what the equation is of a thought? You know, like there's some stuff that we still can't get our arms around.
But isn't that great about life? The stuff you don't know. Paul and I talked a lot about UFOs is. Paul's even more convinced than most.
That they're here.
Yeah, yeah, that they're here ye among us? Yeah yeah, yeah, But you know, that's the one philosophy I have with it all. We were put here on earth to live, I mean to live. So no matter what ship you go through during the day and you got a little of this, you know where we get, Oh this wises is happening. It's not what it's about. You're here to live no matter what's happening to you. Just participate, participate and live. You know.
Yeah, that's a good point. So tell me about this podcast. This is just a chat a chat session with with folks that you two know.
With our friends.
Yeah, you could probably have a thousand episodes before.
You, and they're friends that we think are interesting and we think much like what happened to you with SmartLess. Yeah, you know we once this gets out, if you will, we think certain friends of ours will also say, hey, what about me?
Yeah exactly, why am I get ready? Yeah? You're not going to be able to move?
And we're having fun with it.
That's the best part is it's taking what we do, as I said at night on the phone, and taking it out into the airway.
You're not having fun in life, forget about it. Yeah, you gotta be having fun. We had Bill Burr, you know, Chip shot ago. It's amazing, right, It was the funniest thing. It just shows you actors want to be singers. Singers want to be actors. So we had lunch, blah blah blah. We have a lot of fun and he's brilliant, and uh yeah, I want to do it. Yeah, I want to do it absolutely, Yeah, I'll be there. Fuck yeah, you know, do it.
He says.
One thing he says, Uh, I want to sing? Said what he says, I want to sing?
I'm not doing it.
You gotta be fucking kidding. You're gonna come on and sing? Yeah? I want to sing, yo, Yeah, make it happen. So I made it happen. I got a music track. We sent him the song blah blahlah blah. When he gets in here and destroyed the Cold Porter classic. I've got you under my skin. When I tell you destroy I'm sure there's a guy in a box somewhere kicking the fuck trying to get out.
Made up his own lyrics as he went along, his own lyrics.
We're so thrilled that you said you'd sing today. I got the band waiting. I just put you on, honey. I would never ask you to do that. We're going to eclectically wait for whoever was to sing right.
I don't even sing in the shower. It's it's it's not great. You were fantastic on our podcast, though, enjoy I mean truly one of our better interviews.
Thank you, thank you. You know you talk about singing. I appreciate that. I enjoyed it. You know, it's it's such an irony guys that are afraid to sing and can sing. Then you got a guy like Warren Buffett, who's a buddy. I love him, and all he does is he loves to sing. He just loves. I met him because he hired me to do a gig and I rewrote My Way for him, he says. He says, I get saying that song. I love saying, I just love my Way. That's my song. I said, really, were he says, standing a playing at my funeral? He said really? I says, well, how would you like to sing it? So we're hearing. I said, well, you're going to studio with me and we'll record you. He said really.
I said yeah.
I said, we'll have a hamburger a cherry coke, because that's what he eats every day, right, cherry coke. He said, okay, come on, So he comes out here. We get in the studio, capital huge orchestra, and weren't Boffa singing My Way with no fear? And he's singing away and he's loving it, and he was so good. And then we start doing some gigs together. We'd go out and we'd start singing at these different little rillits. Oh yeah, and we and he stand up there. We do a rewrite of My Way, like one we did down here in a Laguna. The top female executives in the country, Big tent I must have been five hundred women. Now then we're here. You women cheer and he's just roaring away and I'm stand here going I've seen it all. But you know, he plays the record. Apparently every day he goes to his office, which is the coolest office. It's quiet in Omaha, it's modest in Omaha, and you go in there, you don't hear a sound. He's got baseball stuff all over the place. He loves it, and he listens to his version of my Way. Really, so he get into this business of holograms and he's out here. I said, Warren, we can do a hologram of you singing my Way, so you'll be seen. Really, I said, just meet me at this studio and we'll do the hologram. Not only hear yourself, you'll see yourself. We went to the studio, he did it, and we now have a wonderful hologram and an amazing version of Warren Buffett singing My Way. And then where would you run that hologram at his funeral?
Ah? Got it? Yeah, hopefully not soon dancing on his coffee.
Yeah, But it just goes back to you know, so many people have a fear of speaking, and definitely singing, right, I mean, we know that, But then the guys that you're so amazed at that have so much and they do in this things no fear whatsoever.
I would probably sing before I would dance. How are you at dancing? Yeah, you can dance, ken you.
I'd rather sing before dancing. You know.
I used to dancing. I mean, I you know, do you remember I didn't even dance with Amanda at my wedding. That's how much I don't like dancing. I didn't even dance at my own wedding. First thing that you took, you took your dance and my dance.
That's correct, So you owe me one.
You're going to stop for an in and out Burger on your way home because it's pretty obvious Paul is not serving anything.
Well, you haven't gone into the kitchen yet.
I came having had Yeah, I got a rush back with your diet before you split. It's uh, it's.
You know what I do.
I I whenever I'm at a place that's serving you know, something yummy, something something bad for me, I have it. I have it a lot, uh when I'm there, But for the most part, that's like once a week, once a month. Twice a month for anybody. Yeah, so when I'm home, I just make sure when I'm home, whereas I do most of my eating, it's all just good stuff. Mostly it's salad and chicken.
Yeah.
Well, you know the way you've watched the way the family eats. Yeah, from Alex to the way and oh yeah yeah, oh my god. I mean Amanda is just great for me in so many ways. She's way overqualified to, you know, manage what I eat. But she's very helpful and giving me discipline and many many are important. Yeah, you get older, we all have to watch what we put in our body.
Oh sure, I think they say if you if you keep eating exactly what you eat each year, you will gain three pounds. Like your metabolic rate slows down such that you need to eliminate three pounds worth of weight gain each year if you want to stay level. So you have to eat less and less the older you get, if you want to keep your weight the same.
Unless your doctor prescribes o zimpic.
All right, Yeah, I just got up one day and said, I've eaten enough. I've eaten enough.
Yeah, well, you watch yourself and you're still performing in your vain so that that helps all.
Hey, you know when you go to a doctor five years ago and then I went last month, he says, you're three inches shorter. I'm not the kind of guy that relishes that. I was never anywhere. He says he's lost inches. I said, wait a minute. I started too.
Short as it was.
You know, I took my weakness, made it my strength. He says, you're three inches shorter. I said, I don't want to hear that.
They don't have no zempic for that.
They will. They've got operations. Now you can go in. They cut open your legs, surih, they put a wedging and really, oh yeah, oh they'll give you. They got something for everything, don't they everything. That would be weird, Yeah, very weird. When I get the five inches shorter, I'll sick.
What a five inch wedge? And your kneecap wherever it works?
Hey, it's been fun. It's we're so thrilled that you came. And god, I'm just uh, I'm I'm honored to be related.
To you, and and you should hear everything people say about you when I'm out and about Yeah, well if I told you all the hellos I get to pass on to you you'd be exhausted.
That's touchy, that's good. Well likewise, hey, likewise, And we don't promote it, you know that we're so laid back with it. But now it's people come up. They know and but thanks for joining Skip and I. You know, Skip and I are we're a little virgence here compared to what you guys have achieved with yours. And when we put this together and we started thinking who we wanted on, you know, you're at the top of the list there and we've really had a lot of fun today. And Skips a brother and a friend and you're just our way, yes, our way, love it or short people only, we haven't made up our minds. But thanks Jase, my pleasure, love you, Thank you. Our Away with Paul Anka and Skip Bronson is a production of iHeartRadio.
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