Paul and Skip are joined by the famed political pollster to break down the presidential debate, offer thoughts on the outcome of the election, the impact of Taylor Swift's recent endorsement of Kamala Harris, and explain why this campaign cycle is unlike any in American history.
Our Way with yours truly paul Anka and my buddy Skip Bronson, is a production of iHeartRadio. Hi folks, this is Paul Anka and.
My name is Skip Bronson.
We've been friends for decades and we've decided to let you in on our late night phone calls by starting a new podcast.
And welcome to Our Way. We'd like you to meet some real good friends of ours.
Your leaders in entertainment and.
Sports, innovators in business and technology, and even a sitting president or two.
Join us as we ask the questions they've not been asked before, tell it like it is, and even sing a song or two.
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They don't have heightoned jobs, and they're legitimately stressed out. And the more that we ignore them, or make fun of them, or your worst of all rid its you them, the more that we're dividing our country, Which is why I believe that culture is so essential, because it's the only way that we can overcome these divisions. Everybody likes to go to Disney World, Everybody likes to turn on their radio and listen to their favorite songs. There's some things that we still do as a country, we just don't do them together anymore.
Hey, Hey, how's it going. Welcome back from Canada. I know you were. Yeah, premiered my movie and the film festival, and that's also was great. The reviews of an amazing and I was had a great, great time. But we got to confer here, buddy, because we didn't have a good week in football, no great sources. Should we enable our Handicapperiz James, Carbill James.
And then I got my vaguest connection and I'm in a hole. I mean it was a podcast, podcast, film film. Where do we go?
Right?
We're talking cash here, that's a talking hard cash. NFL is back. Anyway, You've been good, Chrissy. Yeah, I know I've been good. And I get ready to go to Colorado, like golf in a tournament up there, Hi, high altitudes. Yeah, I was in. I ran from one event they threw for me at dinner to watch the debates, and you and I both know we've conferred on that. But yeah, it was something to watch, right, which is going to lead us to who our dear friend Frank was going to come on Wednesday.
Yeah, we absolutely love and I just dying to get his spin on what's occurred here in the past few days, aren't you.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. He's a brilliant guy. And you know, he grew up literally right down the street from me in West Hartford, Connecticut. But we didn't know each other then we met each other later. We first met in the early nineties, and you knew the lunch You knew the Lunx family. I knew that. Yeah, the father was a foren dentist and the father would go out every night. The father was a loaner. You know, Frank is a bit of a loaner. But the father was just go out and walk by himself out than he road after dinner every night, in the teeth all day. Nobody wants to look at you exactly, forensic dentists.
Who wants to go to what did you do? Well, let me put the enamel underneath the hudder floor. But you know what, because that was a change of life, baby. And you know, my sister, my one my one sibling, was eleven years older than me, and I was My mother had me late in life, but my grandparents were already gone by the time I was born, you know, so I always wanted to try to find out about my family, and I hired a genealogist and did the whole thing. So it motivated me to write a book about my life that I never planned to publish, but I was just going to use it as a leap behind for my kids and one day my grandchildren. So I wrote it and I said. I called Frank, who you know has been a good friend. I said, look, I wrote this book, but it's not to be published. This is just something to leave behind. But there's a lot about Hartford and West Hartford in it. So would you take a look at it. I think you'd enjoy reading it. He said, sure, send it over. So I send it over to him. A week later, he comes to see me in my office. He said, oh my god. I said what He said, you have a book here. I said, what do you mean? He said, well, it's not about your life. That's not the thing. But the war that you were in with Donald Trump, when you and Steve Winn tried to develop the casino in Atlantic City. That's an unbelievable story and people would want to read that story. So you got to discard all this stuff about you growing up. It's a paper route and did this, and he did that. Forget about that, just isolate this part. I'm going to edit this book for you, and I'm going to call the part about this battle. And I said, yeah, I said internally, you know in the comp he used to call it the War at the Shore. And he said, oh, that's a perfect title. So he took the book and leave it to him. He's a wordsmith and he's written best selling books himself, and from this leave Behind that I never intended to publish came an LA Times bestseller. And the book still sells today, especially on audio tape on audible, because anything with Trump's name in it today, whether you love him or hate him, it sells. So my book, you know that was a successful venture, if you will, came about because of Frank. Yeah, I love the book. Well, I'm gonna ask him point blank. I want to know who he thinks he's going to win. He won't answer because the smart ones won't here. If I'm looking forward to throwing smith questions out, he all he wants to I wanted out of life. I think I'm stinking this to be funny, was to meet you. So I'm telling you he's met everybody he's met pres he's made you know, athletes, he's made everybody. He must have asked me half a dozen times. And that's why I set up that lunch for you two to meet at the Beverly Hills Hotel. And he loved it. And if you recall, after about an hour and a half, I left and the two of you still kept talking because he just couldn't get enough of you. Well, I'm humbled by that. That's very cool, very cool. I look forward to talking to him. And I think our listeners will you know, we've given them an eclectic array of lovely friends and smart people, and he'll give him a different slant. I think between him and James will have covered the field.
And as you know, every dinner party, all people are talking about is this election. Right now, as we're getting really close to the actual election day, I hope the hell it can convince people to get out and vote. Yeah, that's what we need.
Our country is going through big change and we have to really get it done.
So much going on, so much anger or so much you know, craziness. It's and we can ask them about what's going on in Israel, I mean, not just about the politics. But I think it's going to be a great conversation. And as I said, I think the timing is perfect. Well, you're going to get ready forbid and I'm going to play pickledball tot night perfect. Make sure you keep the lights on. The woman is waiting, the lights are on, the play in the dark. I tried, and I was too good.
All right, my competition want lights on out?
All right?
Exactly, all right, Skip, let me see. I'm going with Kansas City this week. I'm going with the Lions this week, and I think the Cowboys those are my three picks.
Well, let's see. Let's hope you're right, and it will. We'll get carbos picks and your guys and your friends in Vegas and will put them together and we'll come up with a winning formula, hopefully.
So what was the old saying in casinos is do you want to win? Owning the casino by a casino? Exactly gets a game with anyway, We have fun, all right, my darld.
Get some sleep, sale and O mama will do. We'll talk real soon though.
Okay, Hello, Frank, nice to see you again, buddy.
It's it's great to see you. Now, I really Skip. We get a chance to do this, which is so cool for me. Which, yeah, I just gotta warn you, You're gonna be asking me questions and I'm gonna be asking you questions.
Leh.
I was.
I was telling Paul and our producer Jordan was on with us that the irony of all this that you and I both lived on Mountain Farms Road in West Hertford but didn't know each other at that time. I knew your dad, who, by the way, I think was it wasn't he a forensic dentist if I remember.
That is correct?
Yep, Yeah, And I knew your dad, But then you and I didn't meet until the early nineties through Steve Win when Steve and I were pursuing the idea of casino gaming in New York and he said, listen, I got this brainiac and I want him to go with you and be involved in whatever. And you and I went. I think our very first meeting was in Allbany with Joe Bruno, the state senator from New York. I think it was like three days in that we realized that we both grew up in West Herdford and we're both living on the same street. But so Paul was asking me, and I said, oh, the first question of the box would be, how did I know you went to penn They went to University of Pennsylvania. But why and where and how did you first get involved in politics? And this is very strange for me to acknowledge this, but I was six or seven years old and I still could barely read. But for some reason, my parents gave me a copy of US News and Will report. This is an absolutely true story. And I could tell you because I followed the pictures what every state's electoral vote was in the nineteen sixty eight presidential election. Was six years old, and somehow that just stuck in my head. My sister, who has styche problems, had these really large encyclopedias war books, so I knew all the presidents from those pictures, and I could say the presidents by the time I was eight. I could do him backwards. By the time I was twelve, and I still remember when I was seventeen that too young to drink.
I won everyone at a bar a free drink from the owner because I could do the presidents forwards and backwards, and under a minute totally wasted and he had to pay up and from that point on it was just a love with her passion. Huh yeah, I don't know why, but Paul, you were good. The first time he had a number one song, you were it. Did Joe appreciate well?
Like you? I started young like you. I started young, and I was fifteen when I left home with a hundred bucks, got to New York, and I got lucky and got my first hit. Correct. So you and I found our passion and our purpose early in life, which made it easier with all the challenges. Right, yep.
How early did you realize that you wanted to be involved in real estate and developed being and that kind of investing. Back in the day in Hartford, you know, if someone had a Cadillac, that was a big deal.
That meant they were very, very wealthy. But it's very rare in our neighborhood that anybody would have a Cadillac. And the local real estate developer had a Cadillac, and I just aspired to be in that business. But because it was Hartford, the insurance capital of the world, it was almost the same way people say it's a law that if you're old and Jewish, you have to move to Florida. So if you lived in Hartford, you either worked in the insurance companies or you knew somebody or had a family member. And I started selling insurance, and I met a person who had an insurance and real estate business, and he explained to me that the commissions were much bigger in the real estate than they were in insurance. So I started selling real estate and went from that into you know, finding a piece of property and going to Melan Herb Simon, who were you know, both friends of ours, yours and mine, and you know they backed me started pursuing real estate projects. But I think to answer the question more specifically, I was a teenager. You know, my parents didn't have money, and you know I always wanted stuff. I always wanted things. I wanted a nice car, wanted to have all those things, and that truly withdrove me. That was the passion that came from having nothing. You know, my dad was a window trimmer and there was really no money in the family.
Okay, I got a question for both of you, and I did kind of answer it. What is it about Italians and Jews? We don't pray the same way, we don't eat the same food that we eat the same amounts of food. Why have the Talians and Jews always got along so well? There were blood brothers even though in so many ways were different.
Well. The funny thing for me, by the way, to answer that question growing up in West Harford and going to the King Philip Elementary School in King Philip Junior High School, where the entire school was Jewish, and the Jewish holidays they closed the school. But in high school we had to go to the other side of town. Tremendous number of Italians, and at first it was not a love affair between the Jews and the Italians. But over time, you know, some of my best friends in high school were Italian. But Paul, you know that Paul's not Italian though.
Right, you know, I think all that Paul's Lebanese.
I'm Lebanese. Yeah, I'm Italian by injection. I lived in Italy in the nineteen sixty But you know it shouldn't come as a shock, guys, because no Americans are actually from America.
Good point, you know.
And I was just a Lebanese kid up in Canada, you know, there weren't a lot of Lebanese up there, and found my passion for music and I was then involved with Jews and Italians. They ran my business. I worked for the mob. They were all Italian and Jewish and everybody got along and it was wonderful.
Why don't we get along today? We should?
Of course we should, even the Middle East. When you look at it, I mean, they're all brothers in one way or another. You know, we'll get to that maybe later. But I never understood why those people weren't holding hands and living properly together. It's the biggest mystery to me of all time.
It's a real tragedy because there was so much creativity and so much cooperation, so much success in the fifties and sixties where we were cooperating. There's so much pain and suffering and death now that we seem to be at odds with each other, and it's a real tragedy.
Well, it leads us to where we're at today. I mean, you look at the immigration situation. You know, it's the big item here in this election, and you know a lot of Americans have to understand the Mexicans are already here. Whether you're concerned with what American culture feels are like, you know, the labor markets just look, they're here. They've been here and they've been a part of our country for years. And you look at the ebb and flow of you know how years ago it wasn't like it is today, and they're here and they're part of our culture. Today's immigrants are coming from everywhere, you know, from failed Central American states on Duras, El Salvador, Aguateimala, Venezuela. You know all those numbers, right.
Well, the public is very clear that it wants tall fences and wine gates, that they want the immigrant community. But they just want them to come here the right way, to pay their taxes, to register. So that's the key. And this is where both parties have it wrong. The Republicans have become so anti immigrant that it is frightening. It's not who we are as a people. And the Democrats seem to not believe in borders, seem to not believe in enforcements. And that's the tragedy. And it's one of the reasons why I believe music, theater, movies, and sports are so essential because these are the only things that bring people together. Now is everything else is almost designed to separate us. I listened to the words and the lyrics, particularly of rap hip hop, and they're so angry and so device. I think it contributes to this sense that is us against them, and us are people who look like us and talk like us. And it never used to be that way now. I know if you mentioned that the genius and Italians that we are at odds, I know in West Harford, Connecticut. But it wasn't hate. It was a fight in the in the parking lot, followed by I scream at friends. It wasn't this death match that we seem to be the end. And Paul tribal, tribal, I've been to you. You won't know this, but I've been to a couple of year concerts and a joy for me because I brought you music since I was small, and your conscience, the mixture people there, the diversity of people there was remarkable. I don't see that anymore, and I think it's a real tragedy.
Well, I agree, I mean off that point, you know, let's not forget that what two years ago Trump, I mean he went from openly condemning Mexican migrants as rapists bad ombres to embracing Mexico and trade security deals that took all kinds of relationships that he put together with all republics. So he made a flip from what he thought of them to where it is today, right to NAFTA right.
That's a good thing that you come to a different point of view, but it's a bad thing when you sow seeds of hate and anger. Hours before this our conversation, Donald Trump talked about immigrants, legal immigrants stealing dogs and goats, stealing household pets and eating them. It's singularly the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in a presidential debate. And I just wish that our culture could overwhelm this. I wish that our relationships could overwhelm this, but it doesn't. And now we're looking for where we disagree. We used to do Jewish geography. We would find something that we had in common, and once we went realized we went to the same restaurant, it's had to the same concert, went to the same football games. Once we found that connection, nothing could tear us apart. Now we seek to find differences to dismiss and to dehumanize. And it's it's why I was so eager for this conversation, and so I don't hostile to the other stuff that I'm talking about because I know that it brings anger, and that's not what I want to be doing.
Do you think Trump is selling anger?
Honestly, yes, I think it's more than them. I think he's selling resentment. I think he is selling revenge, and he's doing so to people. So I want to be clear about this. I have tremendous sympathy for Trump's supporters, and I don't like them demon us. In fact, I will speak up against it publicly with passion. They're ignored, they are forgotten, they're left behind, their ridicule by others. The average Trump voter is in their late fifties, has maybe two or three thousand dollars in savings, did not graduate from college, and they're really suffering. A whole lot of them lift paycheck to paycheck. They don't take government benefits, they don't have high income jobs, and they're legitimately stressed out. And I don't think we do enough to hear them, to listen to them. And the more that we ignore them, or make fun of them, or the worst of all, ridicule them, the more that we're dividing our country. Which is why I believe that culture is so essential because it's the only way that we can overcome these divisions. Everybody likes to go to Disney World, although the average voter can't afford it. Everybody likes to turn on their radio and listen to their favorite songs. There's some things that we still do as a country. We just don't do them together anymore.
So you feel that the pessimism that we've had right from the crash and Await, COVID, income, inequality, the environment. Today people not only think they can't get ahead, Frank, but they think they're falling behind. And they're very, very angry.
That it's correct. And to some degree they're correct. To be out of college degree, you're limited in this country now.
But the younger generation, they were detached. Isn't that where Biden the Democrats had it wrong. They didn't realize that they were so detached.
Well, here's the strange thing that I could not explain before Biden pulled out. He was being Donald Trump among eighteen to twenty nine year olds by six percent, by seven percent.
Nothing.
Usually, younger voters are absolutely in the Democratic camp, and the older you get, the more likely you are to be a Republican. Under Joe Biden. It wasn't that way because younger voters simply disagreed with both of them and basically wanted a fundamental change. And as we record this, which is on a clearestday evening, Harris is winning among younger voters, beidingumped by twenty points. They are engaged, they are activated, they are eager for this selection.
I agree they're becoming active.
Yeah, and the same that they did to you when you were a kid singing, when you were a teenage I I went back and worked at some of the videos of this. I don't know how you' still are hearing because they were so woud and sharing you. It's the same kind of emotion that they have George Erris. Right now they see somebody that they're loving.
So we believe that they're now involved. And do you think that they have a sense that they really believe their vote counts and many of these people weren't going to vote at all.
Yes, that's exactly what I believe, and I can prove it. The greatest intensity level that people who were saying they can't wait for this selection are women eighteen to twenty nine who are completely detached eight weeks ago and it's not because Trump changed, It's because you have a different candidate on the Democratic side. And they love her because they see themselves in you. And what's interested lewis they think she's ten years younger than she actually is. They analize that she's almost sixty. It's fascinating to me.
So she's introduced optimism.
She's introduced relevancy. Politics are now relevant and these young people think that they can make a difference. So yes, it is optimistic, but it connects to them and who they are. And I appreciate it because in a long time, it's ice screamed, either for a TV idol or or or for a politician running for office. And the last time I got excited is Ronald Reagan and that was forty five years ago.
And they've been holding all that stuff inside, Frank, and I think they've just been waiting, waiting to let it out.
Yes, and they have, and this is it and they are and they can't wait.
So if Harris gives them that what Paul's referring to, right, if people now with Harris had changed. But let's just back up just before Kamala became the candidate, when it was Biden versus Trump. The common thread flight that you heard over and over and people go to you for answers. People were asking, how can it be that we have more than three hundred and thirty million.
People in this country and this is the choice that we have.
That was a question every person. Now you might say that that changed somewhat because you've got Colla in the race, But what is the reason why we didn't have, let's say, better choice than Trump versus Biden. Why is that?
By the way, I do believe that this is going to be the least listen to podcasts of your life. Gives me doing politics, which people hate. So I'm gonna do it because I know you want to do it. But as someone's worked for networks and radio companies broadcasters, everything inside me is saying, don't do this a skip, You're gonna hold it against me, and Paul, you're never gonna talk to me again, and you check your numbers and they're gonna stink.
That's just the opposite. Right now, It's the only thing people talk about. You go to a dinner party. This is all that I beg to differ with you on this one point. It's the only thing people are talking about. You go to your club, you go to restaurants, you go to a dinner party. This is all the only thing people are talking about.
Well, that's your generation. Skip. Everyone born in the twenty first century is tesperately looking for something else. And I just I hate boring them now.
But what they were looking for? But they were looking for different candidates. My question is something different. Why is it that good quality people don't run? What is the principal reason in your opinion, and you're an expert, what is the principal reason why highly qualified people, who who were likable and intelligent, they don't want to get involved in this? What is the principal reason for that?
First is the rules themselves. Republicans can now vote in Democratic primaries, Democrats cannot vote in Republican primaries, and the very few places in independence vote and EI their primary. So that means you get the most extreme people getting nominated on the Democratic and Republican side. Sacking and social media has becomes so brutal and mean and vindictive, nobody wants to put themselves through it. Third is that every newspaper or TV or even online journalist is an investigative reporter and their whole life is digging up negative, salacious, hostile stories on your opponents.
And fourth, it's.
Become so expensive that only million millionaires can run. For those four reasons, we get the most left wing Democrats, the most right wing Republicans, and there's no sensible people from the center. And that's real tragedy. I've been doing politics now for almost fifty years, and there's no way that I would run. I wouldn't even serve we get running for office. I would even want to be a member of comics because of how disruptive it is. Nobody respects you, nobody appreciates you. You get paid one hundred and eighty five thousand a year, which sounds like a lot, but you're maintaining two households, you're flying back and forth. You are under a microscope every hour of every day. The public now thinks that they've a right to come into a restaurant and yell at you when you're there with your kids having dinner. It's just an awful, awful environment, and it's getting worse, not getting better.
Well, unlike what a friend of ours told SKIP and I, you know, we know that Washington crowd are treacherous yea, we will admit to that. Everybody knows. In our town of Hollywood, they'll tell you things to your face and they'll stab you first in the throat and on the stomach, and then they'll stab you in the back. Then they'll stab you in the ass. But in Washington they'll stab you once. Right.
Well, the difference is Hollywood is Washington. Just the people are prettier.
But you know you're on the pulse. And I disagree too in terms of I think our listeners, who we value a great deal, totally get you. And you know, you're one of those one of a kind guys that really know what they're talking about. We lack that. That's why my hat goes off to a guy like Bill Maher. For months, this guy was out there, he took all the shots, told it exactly like it was. And I like guys like that because in America, all men have balls, we know that, but you know what, they don't know how to use them, most of them. So I admire guys like you, mar and your on it to know that there's something happening in our country now. I think there is a change and there's that vibe going on, and I think Washington has not recognized it. Our folks want to leave everything behind. They want to start over. They want something to believe in it. I'm out there. I sing to them, I meet with them, I talk to them. They want to move forward in a positive fact.
But the problem is the politicians are encouraging this bad behavior. Young people see candidates yelling at each other, lying to each other, just being anti civil to each other, and they start to copy it. Here's a reason why young people are attacking their teachers. There's a reason why divorce when people and they blame the reason for it, and increasing numbers say politics. And in fact, I'm going to give you a missing truism that the issue with Kamala Harris is that she reminds men of their first wife. The issue with Donald Trump is that he reminds women of their first husband's divorced lawyer.
Yeah. People want fun again, right, they want fun?
Yeah, And the problem is they're not going to get it in politics.
They keep telling us how bad things are, how rigged everything is, and it's not energizing. And I look at Harris and I don't know. She throws a sense of hope out there, doesn't she.
Speaks to their language. It's completely void of detail. She doesn't tell us where she really stands, but she offers a change and at least maybe not our generation, but something closer to us. Compared to Trump and Biden, she is a breath of fresh air. I do believe that she owes the American people the details of her playmants. I do believe that she's running away from people, that she's not allowing reporters to question her, but so much of what she's campaigning on his flow when they deserve substance. In the end, you have the responsibility as a candidate for president tell people exactly where you stand, and voters have the right to demand that candor, and she's not doing it. She didn't do it in the debate, and she's not doing it in her day to day campaigny by the same token, Trump is being absolutely destructive in his language, in his approach, and I think the public, particularly now in twenty twenty four, public deserves better see if somebody like me really frustrated from both candidates both perspectives, because I think the public isn't being well served.
You think this election will in great part be people voting against someone as opposed to voting for.
Someone, always has been.
But we had one exception, which is twenty oh eight, when John McCain ran against Barack Obama. The ads are positive, the campaign was positive. The two candidates would complement each other. There was no question that they would shake hands and talk to each other before and after the debate. I remember when John McCain said to a supporter, called Barack Obama Muslim. But Kaine stopped the town hall and said, no, man, that is not correct. And he challenged her and he said, look, we have very different solutions for the problems facing America, but we are both out of Americans. How different is that than what you see today? And that was only it's less than twenty years, not a long topical. I wish we had those kinds of politics today.
But Frank Obama, he wrote in on Hope right all the way to the White House. But weren't we sold a bill of goods on that? Congress was locked. Other than the Affordable Care Act, nothing really passed. Divisions between the parties grew, and Trump won right, and it's.
Fair, but I was active when they actually did get along. Go back to nineteen ninety four, which is hardably how long ago that But when new kingrig took over the House and said to Bill Clinton, let's sit down, let's negotiate. What did they end up doing? I balanced budget, a budget that actually reduced the debt, not added to it. And they had several other agreements such as welfare reform sure Bill Clinton Vitol did initially, but the President and the Republicans in Congress actually got stuffed done. And how different that is then than right now with Joe Biden and the Republicans in the House. He wouldn't even meet with them for months at a time. You have to be able, I'll give you the four P elements. You have to be able to talk to each other, have to be able to listen to each each other. You have to be able to offer meaningful, measurable solutions. And you have to accept eighty five percent. If you're willing to do those things, they're all reasonable, they're all sensible, then you can get stuff done. The problem is nobody wants to compromise on anything.
Frank, I have to because the big topic of the day, at least the big buzz today is you know who? But you know I go back to the sixties when I was a young kid, as you mentioned, and I'm working for the mob, because you know that's who you worked for. They ran everything. And I'm in Vegas and I'm around the rat pack, right, And when I saw the power of Sinatra, the rat Pack and Kennedy who'd come in and out of town, and I'd get the drift and the swagger of what was going on that he needed to be elected. And Sinatra and his group literally with a big dynamic the gut Kennedy elected. Fade out, fade in. Here we are, Taylor Swift, skip, and I want to know how much of that needle moves and give us a commentary on that.
We asked a question, actually, who has a bigger impact on your vote? And the time it was Joe Biden, Joe Biden, Donald Trump, or Taylor Swift. Thirty eight percent chose Trump, thirty four percent chose Biden, and remarkably, twenty five percent chose Taylor Swift. And that among women under age thirty, she beat the other two. She will have an impact among younger women to listen to her, they'll hear her point of view. And she's learned that you don't just do it out of support. You have to explain why, which is really important. Give them a reason, or actually give them three reasons. One is random, two is a trend. Three the number three, communication wise, is proof. And that's exactly what she did in her letter to her fans, and it is going to make a difference. All I got a question for you. Between nineteen sixty and nineteen eighty, Frank Sinatra went from being a big Democrat to being one of the most public supporters of Ronald Reagan. And in fact, and kick was the eighty four Inaugury Inaugural Ball where he'd performed and it was such a big deal, and Don Rickles was there and some of the other people he hung out with in Vegas. Was it Reagan who changed Sinatra? Or was it the Times who changed Sinaptra?
I think it was a combination of both. Keeping in mind he had a very bad taste in his mouth as to the expectation that he was going to get out of the Kennedy ride and when they turned on him and Bobby turned on them and the mafia and what have you, that didn't sit well with him for many many years, not unlike a lot of us and he was close to Reagan, and you know, you get these corporations, they're going to put their money whoever can help them. They're going to go back and forth. You know, Frank was not quite like that, but he he kind of changed his whole philosophy toward where we were going and the politics, and it was his like of Reagan. And I think he still was hurting from what the Kennedys did to him, because it was a it was a massive event, Frank, when you realize, you know, they did help in electing Kennedy, and then what evolved was, you know, the whole castro thing and with a mafia in there to help, and they had contracts with the government, and then you know, a couple of the guys got killed and who killed. So this whole mafia crowd and all of them they were let down by the whole democratic system that they thought that they could get in and do business with. And he just and he was in straightforward guy. He was a great guy. He was a man's man. He was smart, and he knew where he wanted to go, and he loved this country and he felt that Reagan was the ticket. I mean, didn't you remember when you endorsed Agnew, so he just went right over to that side.
Yeah, it was a big deal. It really mattered.
Yeah, and you know music years ago, Frank Skip, we used to not me, but music affected and had a political kind of outcoming. They could force. They could also generate all kinds of excitement politically and lead on with music. It doesn't happen today. Music has no place in politics. It doesn't add any strength to it whatsoever. But this Taylor Swift thing is very interesting. It's a phenomenon for all of us in the business. I think her and the Beatles, I don't think I've ever seen anything like this collectively. Everybody that might be a competitor to her don't even come close to her. But to see this dynamic in play and to see what it's going to do in this election where smart people I think wouldn't sit here and try to predict who's going to become president. I think you just don't do that. I'd be curious to see what you're feeling is with her involved. Now, can you predict that you think Harris is going to win this? Would you dare jump out on that?
I would, and I have within the last twenty four hours and I'm getting my head kicked in. That is really I can't help it. It's my focus, groupts, it's my coving. That is my knowledge of Trump and his ability to listen to others, his ability to hear the criticism, which he doesn't have. Skip you know him much better than any of us on this podcast. I don't think Trump understands the trouble that he's in. And Paul I do want to address music and politics. Bleewood Mac that absolutely got behind Bill Clinton in nineteen ninety two and people still remember them in the convention, and Bruce Springsteen endorsing and performing for Hillary Clinton in twenty sixteen. There are times when musicians make a difference for a candidate in times that they don't. That even though she had all of the entertainers and I went to the radio Citdney Music Hall in twenty sixteen, I did not pay for it. Although I'll tell you something in twenty sixteen, I'm going to acknowledge something on this podcast. For the first time I went to the concert. Then it had Rim and John Fogerty and Dixie Chicks, and yes, some of the money that I had to pay for the ticket went to move on dot Org. And you know what, don't screw with my knees. I don't politicize music. Don't tell me I can't go to a concert the idea of seeing rim and Fogerty and there's one other performer, there's no one'm going to miss that. I don't care where the money goes. You can't do that anymore. And I remember a Republican senator from state of Wyoming came up to me and said, I hear you donated to move On And I said, no, I did not. I went to a concert, and I know some of the money went to move On. He said to me, have to choose sides, because we in this conference don't like people who donate to that horrible organization. And I said to him, and I was proud of this the time. Don't make me choose between my music and my politics, because you don't know which I would choose. We don't have that anymore. Everything is now so political and so divide. She's got to perform. If she performs in the last ten days for Harris, that will make the biggest difference of all.
You know, going back to your point only to amplify it. I go back to Donald Trump to the sixties. I got a call from Roy Cohen. Roy Cohen was Trump's mentor. We met and I've known him ever since and I've worked for him. And without getting into it, he is what he is and Roy Cohen taught him a great deal. And I'll leave it at that.
Well, I would ask more, but I still I want to know you. And you still have French in Vegas. You know, I want to continue to know you more than just for the next forty eight hours.
We're going to lunch again because I totally enjoyed it, and you know that's a that's a given for you and I. We're going to go to lunch and do it. And there I will open up, but here I won't. And you went to one of my favorite places in the world because I just left there. Two fans Hong Kong. I performed at the Changeover. I've been going down there for fifty years and I'm sure you'll agree. Besides the food and everything. I mean, I know there's a slight change because of the politics in Hong Kong, but what a special place.
Yeah, and you know our friend Alan Zeman, who's a friend of mine and a friend of Paul's who you were with. Do you know about Lang Kwai Fong. I do not know, Okay, so.
I love his records. I love his records. He's had twelve gold records in the West.
That's funny. Lang Kwai Fong is where all the expats from the US hang out. And Alan Xeman owns that whole neighborhood in Hong Kong where they have a tremendous number of restaurants. It looks like it looks like, you know, part of the West Village in New York City. And Alan owns the buildings, it owns the restaurants, and he's just he's a wonderful friend to Paul into me, and he got such a kick out of you. He said that people just loved you. I said, listen, I only know one thing. Everybody wants a piece of Frank right now. He's on CNN three out of five days. I said. They must have paid him a god awful amount of money to get on a plane and fly all the way from la to Hong Kong. That's a tough trip, give a speech and come back. I said, that had to be a hell of a number but he said, Alan said, you just you outperformed. He thought that, you know, you were just great. And again getting back to your earlier point about well, people don't care that much about politics. That's what they wanted to hear about. They didn't want to hear about the American condition, right, they wanted to hear your point of view on where it's going. To that point, because Paul touched on it earlier, some people would say that Trump could be Kamala Harris, but he can't beat Taylor Swift. That if Taylor Swift really does, as you say, get ginned up and really motivated to do all she can, that he won't be able to overcome that. Do you think that's true or is that not the case.
I'm going to take your point and I'm going to use this in the future and I've just developed it here on this podcast. Donald Trump can can defeat Kamala Harris. Donald Trump cannot defeat Donald Trump, and that is his problem in trusting.
So, Frank, should there be will there be a debate? Another debate who's going to be smart here?
She won't do it. If she's smart, she doesn't need to. And that is a very big deal. The fact that that she came in the novice and outperformed and he came in the professional and underperformed. Now he's saying that he won't even accept a Fox News debate with Red Bay. I'm autum McCollum for a very good journalist, has nothing to do with what network they are on. But he won't accept it. He's being foolish. You know, there's a line from Carl McCartney to hate Jude that I think is really powerful.
Only a fool.
Plays it cool by making his world a little colder. And that's exactly what Trump does week after week, day after day. He's doing it right now with this presidential campaign, and he's going to regret it. He could have said, yes, I'll do the debate anywhere, anytime, and it would have happened. He's going to need that debate, and now they're going to be able to say, while we offered it, he said no, that the offers were drawn. But you don't think it's to her advantess to debate him again, No, I do not, because she already won and she already closed the gap she's leading. I think she's going to go ahead in the next few days and from this point on, you just be careful. From this point on, you avoid mistakes. You don't have to push the luck. This is not where you're trying to double your money in the roulette tables for three or four roles and trying to get lucky. This is the presidency. She's got the advantage, she's.
In the lead.
Don't risk it.
And what do you say to people who say that it was three against.
One with the ABC moderators. You know, I've heard that from a lot of nonpartisan people, and I know the agency moderator because I know the media is involved in this. And it is true that they fact checked Trump four times and he did not fact check Harris at all, and that they didn't push Trump seemingly a little bit tougher than Harris. Then why didn't he turn it to his advantage? Why did he say during the debate four to zero, I challenge you as representas of the American people. And there's a reason why the medical people don't trust you. Don't eat on credibility because you treat people in decent you are biased, you play favorites. He could have challenged them there, but he didn't. And once again, that was a weakness, and in fact, at one point she says to Trump, I'm speaking because Trump went to interrupt her. And what he should have said that moment was and that's the problem. Man and Vice president. You are speaking. All you do is speak. All you do is talk. The public wants you to do. Stop talking and start doing. He didn't do any of that. He focused on cats and dogs disappearing and becoming some as barbecue.
I think he does another one, well.
Paul de should offer to moderate that debate. Everybody likes you that.
Won't step down comes to politics. I'm not stepping down, no, but I think he goes for the debate. I think he needs to. Frankly, what about those that were so the naysayers who said that Shapiro should have been the VP to her because we know how important Pennsylvania's.
But would have been the perfect choice. But Harris did not want a step in the middle of the Israeli Palestinian conflict. She did not have the guts. He was very articulate. He's the most popular governor in America. He's a good campaigner, he knows the issues. He's a centrist. And there are too many Democrats who said that they would walk on her if she didn't choose someone to the left. And I feel the same way about the Republican vice presidential nominee. Jd. Vance is not Marco Rubio, He's not Tim Scott. If Donald Trump had chosen Nickey Ailey game said and matched Trump.
You know, they did a survey on that. I heard that they went out and surveyed it with their group and they came back that she wouldn't move the needle at all if she ran with Trump. I mean, that's what they were saying. But I agree with you. I think she would have.
But you mentioned Israel, and that's the other big sort of flashpoint right now. So I know that you know Yawo, I know you've spent time with him. How could you resolve what's going on? I think there's a common threat, whether it's Democrat or Republican in America, at least people want this over. How can it be over?
The only way it can be over is if there's a winner and a loser. And the fact that the hostages are still hostages tells you a Moss's attitude. Let me give the two data points. Every single day, the AMAS leadership goes on Al Jazeera, the news organization out of Cutter and they proclaim death not to Israel, death to the Jews, and day after day, week after week, month after month, they say that they are committed to the complete annihilation of the Jewish community. The world doesn't know that. The world thinks this is just a battle between Israel and the Palestinians, and that Israel's behaving badly. These hostages have been gone now for eleven months. You're being tortured, being sexually assaulted. Many of them, I believe the vast majority are dead at this point. How do you make peace with that? The only way you make peace with that is to destroy you. And they call on and this is the thing I don't understand from Israel. Not only do they call on death to the Jews, but they say publicly on the record that they won't stop till Israel stops existing. It's a war of self defense. And the Israeli government have been horrible communicators, horrible in explaining what's happening to them. And they even have the video GIP They've got the from these cocams and bodycams that they carried to do these terrorist attacks. You see them playfully assaulting women and children. You see them with such zeal, burning people alive. You see the most ainous crimes committed by people who are celebrating as they are killing these people in the most ugly, painful, in humane way. And Israel refuses to release the footage publicly, only showing it in certain circumstances because they are there to protect the respect and the decency of the victims in those videos. I don't get it. This is the truth. These aren't we touched photos, These aren't fake and phony presentations. Is this isn't some woman crying in a bunch of rubble who then gets into a bus, drives to the next bunch of rubble, gets walks into the center and starts crying again, goes to a third This is what they do. This isn't fake, This isn't phony. This is real, and they have it all on video, and they don't show it nearly enough because they're trying to protect the reputations and the emotions of the victims. This is twenty twenty four. You cannot do that. The public has a right to know, and Israel, the government has responsibility to tell them exactly what happened. On October seventh, and they don't, So.
In your opinion, I think they're going to keep they just net y'all, who has just keep prosecuting this word that there's no negotiated settlement is what you're saying.
Oh, there hasn't been. There will there'll be a negotiated settlement, probably within the next two or three weeks. But the fact that it goes on and on and six hostile Jeez was shot in cold blood. By the way, everyone's been waiting for Iran the bomb Israel because they took out the Hamas leader in Tehran. This is the payback, and this is much more painful that Israel can take bombs dropped by planes. Israel can take a lot of pain, as it's had it over the last seventy five years. But when they shoot these people after holding them hostage for eleven months and they shoot them in the back of the end, they execute them, and they're assigned that they were in horrific pain just prior to that execution. That's the worst because you can imagine what they were going through. And that is what Hamas seeks to do, cause maximum pain, maximum hardship, maximum destruction. They were succeeding, and Israel's actually getting blamed for Mamas's behavior. That's how bad the communication was. Right now, It's a tragedy, it's a travesty, and we got to do something about it, but we don't.
So, Frank, I've been with Netanyahu. I go to Israel lot. They're amazing people and I enjoy every time I go there. Does Netanya who have to go? Is there blood on his hands? Does he have to go? I mean, I like the man. They've been gracious to me, but it's part of the problem. And you know, I have a lot of friends over there and the senses he has to go.
Yes, Netanya was prime minister when they came across the board. He was prime minister at a time when they had the most horrific security failure ever in the state of Israel. He was the prime minister who appointed the leadership of the IDEAF, and the leadership of the Secret Service, and the leadership of all the people that are there to keep Israel safe and secure. And he won't even accept responsibility. Once again, again, it's a tragedy. And in any other country the leader would have stepped down. God in my ear disappeared as Prime Minister quit because he took responsibility for what happened in seventy three. Aod Elmert left rob Beychurce to hear your opinion of the Lebanon situation two thousand and five. In the end, people take it responsibility and I realized that I'm coughing and this is actually I want you to lead this in.
It's very human and it's going to stay in and it shows that you can art take which I can't do. If I were on a fucking stage singing and doing what you're doing, I'd be out of business. You will go on as the mention of the world. And what a power force, folks. He is making his point in between cuffs. I love it.
I make bright a song and you can call the coffee to death or heading to This stuff really does matter, carlas the world is watching and Israel has to be strong, but we have to be compassionate to those who are suffering, and that's not happening.
We're gonna take a break for our advertiser, Robotescent, and we'll be right. We'll be right back. What are you drinking? Why do you have some hot hot tea?
Honey?
You know what's great, Frank, just for the future. Honey is magic. Frank. You take two three teaspoonfuls. You stop coughing right away.
And you know I have nothing else except except Presco and popcorn.
I love popcorn. That's all we usedee, all of us. We'd sit around Vegas and we'd have damn popcorn into the wee hours. We still love our popcorn.
Still, Do you guys have anything stronger than that?
When you're in Vegas, Frank, when we have lunch, I'm gonna blow you away when I tell you I was the luckiest teenager in the world. And hanging with those guys, they did it all. These were men, They were smokers, they were drinkers, they were gamblers, womanizing. Now, I didn't partake in all of it, but one under three or four. I was a happy kid. Every show girl who showed up, I'm next, and I'm only five six. When I danced with those topless women, man, I wasn't a trade places with anybody. The steam room was the point of the social vibe in Vegas, and we all would meet Frank in that steam room behind the Sands Hotel after every show. They would bring food Jace Seabring would come up and cut her hair. We did everything that you would think of, and I loved it. It was a great experience for me, a great learning, learning process being involved with all those guys. They taught me a great deal what to do and what not to do.
Frankly, so we've been at this for an hour, it does feels like twenty minutes. But just before we go, talk for a minute, if you would, about your relationship with Mike Milkan, how that first developed. And I know he thinks so highly of you, clearly, whenever he has the Milk and Institute, he wants to make sure you're a speaker. I know you just went to the Hamptons. He had an event there. He wanted to be sure you were there. I know that. You know you have a very special kind of relationship with a very special guy, and I'm just curious how that first developed.
Well, he ignored me completely for two years. I could not get through it to him. And it was Steve Lynn, your friend, both of your friends. It was when who put me on Milkin's plane and said to Mike, pay attention to this guy, but he can help you. And Milkie would not talk to me guess on the play goes to the back we land in La Milkin comes off, shakes my hand and says, sometime I want to meet you. Well, that's not help. It took two years to make the connection. And the reason why the connection matters. It's a great way to end this conversation is that Milkin got involved in my life and I started to share with him language to celebrate the American dream and language to celebrate capitalism, which I call the economic freedom. And instead of economic growth, you talk about a healthy economy instead of human capitalist, human talent. All this library start. I had a stroke five years ago, and I then had another incident I don't know what they call it, and then a third one. Basically my blood pressure was out of control and causing me a lot of damage. And after the third one, Milkin heard about it and sentence driver to pick me up, and I said, I'm not going to Mike's office, I'm going home and had enough. And they said, now you don't understand. If I don't pick you up and take you home, take you to Mike's place. If I'll let you go home, I'll be five. So I let the guy drive me to Mike's office. He walks out, I'm going to have the coach here. I've got it in this in my West Point apartment and Mike comes out from her on the desk and gives me a hug. Mike is not a touchy feely guy. Mike is not an emotional guy. And he gives me a house and he says, you're trying to kill yourself, and I'm not gonna let you do it. You don't take good care of yourself, and we're all frustrated or scared for you. So what's gonna take. He calls his assistant in and says, how much do I have to pay you? I'll pay you every single month. You tell me the amount, I'll write you the first check right now? What do I have to pay you to stay alive? And at that moment, I thought, here's the smartest human being in the world on finance. He's the smartest person I've ever worked with, and he has to pay me to stay alive. And honestly, Skip, I lost it because I'm embarrassed. And I went from two hundred and thirty eight pounds the one hundred and seventy one in eight months. They gave me his trainer, gave me his nutritionist, and.
I got healthy.
Not that I've been healthy during this podcast, but that was five years ago, and.
We'll limit it to Anthony Heat.
And that's been the story of my life all I used to sing your song my Way when I would get drunk a pen with my best friends and we knew all the words. He would belt it out and I am a horrible, horrible singer. But you know what, over the last forty years, I have gone to know some pretty cool people and they've been very kind to me, and I'm grateful. And I'm about to get off this podcast to moderate something that no one's ever done before, black mail chump voters. I've gathered a dozen of them from my own podcasts that'll go out later this week. And my office is call me and yell at me right now for not being on that. But I wanted to do this with you and with Skip, and Skip I'm grateful for giving me this opportunity because the idea of having of sharing an hour with you, Paul, and being able to thank Skip for being a part of my life. I'm so grateful and so blessed and having people like Mike milkn go out of their way to keep me around. Oh lackey guy, And I'm grateful. And this is my chance to say two words that we don't say enough.
Thank you, well, thank you, thank you. You're the busiest guy in town today, so the fact that you took the time out to do this for two of your pals means the world to Paul into me, and I mean, I have to say, as long as I've known you, I could listen to you for hours. A fascinating guy and a wonderful friend. So thanks for doing this met you.
And for me also, Frank, I know you collect a lot of memorabilia here, You've got stuff fall over the house. I'm going to bring you from me, something from my archive in my humble presentation to you, hoping it fits that wonderful life that you've been living. And I echo everything about Mike. I've known him for years and he's a very unusual, unusual human being, and you are Frank. And I look forward to lunch real soon.
Okay, guys, I'm grateful, and please stay healthy and let's do a hundred. I want to see a hundred of your podcasts.
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