Bill Gerber: The Super-Producer Behind 'A Star Is Born' and 'Gran Torino'

Published Jul 24, 2024, 2:35 PM

Paul and Skip have an audience with a man who’s films have racked up an astonishing 47 Oscar noms over the course of his incredible career. During his long tenure at Warner Brothers, he helped bring classics like Goodfellas, JFK, Unforgiven, Heat, L.A. Confidential, and Twister to the big screen before embarking on an ultra-successful run as an independent producer. His reputation as a Hollywood visionary stems from the fact that he’s seen it all. During this candid interview, Gerber recounts his youth as a showbiz kid, rubbing shoulders with Paul’s Rat Pack friends alongside his agent father. He shares tales from his early days in the music industry, working with rock legends like Joni Mitchell and Neil Young as well as developing acts like Devo and The Cars in the burgeoning post-punk and New Wave scene. Gerber also shares rare insights into his decades-long creative alliance with Clint Eastwood, and explains the long journey to get the blockbuster ‘A Star Is Born’ off the ground. 

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It's our mythology. You know. It's like Tom Hanks happy to say I worked on this movie. You've got mail, you know Tom, And he says, everybody learns and god bother. It's just it's so true. These things become touchstones for all of our ethics and humanity.

Ula Hey, I had her for you all day. What's going on? I think we all need addressed after this last weekend. I mean Milwaukee.

Hello, oh boy, oh boy, exhausting, exhausting. Oh it's sort of calvinized everyone in the country trying to figure out what what's the next move and when and where and who and Yeah, anyway, this week coming up one of our really good friends, Billy Gerber, who's just a blast.

You know, I love Billy. I go way back with him. You know, his dad was something else.

And you spent about five months living at our guest house while he was up and Aspen. We just couldn't get enough of him. When he left, we didn't want to leave. Literally, you know, usually he got a house guest, it's like, oh my god, learn leave one of the fish a weekend. Yeah, with this guy, we didn't want to leave at all. Now he bought a place around the corner, so we get to see him, but we don't have to change the sheets for him, but we get to see him all the time.

But what a great story, you know, skip because his dad and Norman Weiss.

Was my agent.

But you know, he's in the music I remember and he was like really gung ho. He was like a drummer and all that, and then he evolved in the motion pictures and then of course of course Clint Eastwood. But he's just he's remained so real. You know, he's not one of these Hollywood creatures. All to respect, it was ever listening. But he's just such a natural, beautiful human being and can tell a story. You know, he's got some great He's done some great films. Forget the stories. Way he rattles up the film is this guy? I mean right to what Star is Born?

Yeah, and all those Clint Eastwuit movies. I mean brand Tarino, how great was that? I mean, he did so many films and Clint loves him, everybody loves him. Billy's just he's just great, and he's he's a fitness freak. I mean, the guy doesn't have an ounce of body fat on him, and he gets something.

You know.

He rides with my son in law. Yeah, my son in law is like a Tour de Frost Championship bike rider, and every time he comes over here, Billy's always with them and they'll go miles and miles all over this on the bikes.

But Billy, he's part of this Beverly Hills posse. I mean Casey Wasserman, John Sykes, Zaslov when he's out here, you know, Grooman of course, when he's here, we're all hanging together and Jim Burkas and we just have a blast. Billy he's the wrangler, you know, Billy O'll call up and say this one's here, this one's there. And then of course with David Geffen, I mean, David and I just you know, we love Billy, so that's fun. We go over to Geffen's house and have lunch, just the three of us, great storytelling, and well it makes it easy.

I mean, look, we've been doing this, you know, we've put in our first inning. But everybody we've had on there's always been a great vibe because we know them. But Billy is going to be really special, and I'm looking forward to it because you know, I haven't we run into I don't see him as much as you do, but with our past, and every time I do, we just start rattling it all off. And I'm just really proud to have known him from his dad and to see how he's evolved. I think, you know, his pop's looking down at him. I'm sure he's very proud because he's done a really good job of his life.

And you know, when we went to your show here in Beverly Hills, he was just ecstatic and and you remember we went backstage after and he was just I mean, Billy, you know, he's seen everybody, every act, everything, and he was so knocked out by your show. He's a very you know, the word is authentic. I mean, he's a very authentic guy. He's up for anything any time I give my heart time because you know, when we screen films, he's sort of like the curator, and every time the milk movie is good, we go Billy to come up with this one, and then he.

Always called me telling me this was no good, that was no good. Billy brought this over, but that was so good.

Yeah, he somehow manages to bind you know, because he's a filmmaker, so he manages to find something about it that's so good. But we have so much fun with him all the time. He's great. I was saying the other day, we look at the great collection of guests that we've had on this podcast, and a lot of them are people that you know that I don't know, and others are people that I know that you don't know. But this is the guy that we both know, so this is gonna be fun. We went to a wedding in Jamaica and he's just look at this fruit. Look at the fruit that we can get here. You know, he's so enthusiastic about everything. I'm like, Billy, it's a melon. What's not that something he got that excited about? Or get up early in the morning, you go run twenty eight miles then come back.

Was he a runner?

Oh my god? Is he a runner? Oh yeah, he's just full on, full on car carrying athlete.

Good for him. Well, I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, we're got fun with him. Okay, So I guess we're gonna get ready for August and we'll talk soon and we'll go to a new restaurant this time.

By the way, I wrote your note this morning. If you remember, if you look at your phone, I wrote you at four four. I got up at four him, which is right about the time you go to bed. So I wrote you. I got in touch with you at three exactly. You can't make it up. You can't make it up two different time different That's why it works. It works, right.

Whatever I can tell you what goes on the three, you tell me, we'll go running up. We got it covered.

If we can both, we got the whole blood.

We have a whole void in our life.

We got the whole twenty four hours covered between us. Yeah.

Man, so so you sent me something. I'll check it out tonight.

Talk to.

Billy. This is too good. I feel like I've been living with you all week because I've been listening to everything that I missed, from RJ to Clive, etc.

Well, if you like that, you like bullshit, You're gonna love chocolate because you're the best.

Either way, Which daughter did you pick up at the airport Georgia?

The twenty two year old recent graduate of Wesleyan University.

Doesn't matter how many daughters you have, and you have many can't catch up to the guy up on the screen here.

Nobody can on any level.

He's listen, He's part of my family, back to his dad, all the way up to my daughter, all of us. I mean, he's part of my life.

You know.

His dad was an amazing guy and he used to always brag about his son.

You know.

Good to see you, Billy.

You know, Paul, it's interesting you'd never introduced me to any of your daughters till I was married.

I'm a smart guy.

Yeah, I was like, there's five of them.

Wow, take your pic.

Oh, wait, I remember Lance Armstrong and I just sitting back talking about how wonderful Anne was. I mean, I think both of us would have been happy to marry her, you know.

Yeah, well there was a point where you could have, but you know I had DIBs on that.

Yeah, So, Billy, if do bike in this heat, it's not that hot here, thank goodness. I mean it's actually been quite pleasant. So yes, I can.

Oh you can you have? Or you can?

I mean it's been eighty you know, eighty tops, eighty one tops, so it's not that big a deal. I mean, the guy's doing the Twitter France right now. It's you know, ninety plus degrees out there in the south of France. It's crazy to.

You, don't that's true.

I do. But they get paid.

We can arrange something.

Bill.

So this guy a skipped did you know? He started music? That was his thing. He was like one of us, one of my guys way back.

I'm still drum and I just have a new band, Paul. I won't make you listen to us because we still suck. But you know, a bunch of dads and a mom from school from the baby school got together and started like a garage band, and that's been fun. It's going to get on the traps again, you know. But you know, I was looking forward to this conversation obviously with two of my idols. You know. I was listening to you guys with our J the other day talking and you know, one of my other favorite podcasters, I mean he's not Paul and Skip, but Scott Galloway is writing a book now on male masculinity. He talks a lot about the lack of male French. And it was so wonderful to listen to the three of you, to you guys in RJ and just the outpouring of affection for each other and the history and just the loving, you know, feelings.

It was.

It's wonderful to hear, you know, not that many people relate to other guys on that level. It's a testament to your guys' friendships and your heart. You know, got big hearts, you.

Know, Billy. I try to tell my son Ethan, you know, I've got this nineteen year old I say, you know, all of you young people have no idea and Skip's heard me do my wrap on it. People don't really embrace the value of what real friendship is today they should teach it in school. But when you've got real friends and you understand what it is, man, are you lucky? And Skip and I this is you know, since we started, it's everybody that we know, and they're all, you know, friends in a different variety. But friendship is so important. I don't think people really embrace it the way we did years ago.

As our favorite golf hustler Rudy Durant said, friendship is serious business.

Billy and I. You know, since I since I got out to California, I've got a great group of friends, but not not any that are closer than Billy and Billy, Thankfully, when he was living up in Aspen, he would before he had his place here, he would stay in our caest house and it was like the greatest thing of all time until Larry David started calling him Skips Leon.

Yeah. And you know it's interesting too because I stayed there for months before you guys even noticed I was there, which was great. I'm in the screening room, I'm in the kitchen.

They don't even know I'm Jerry Moss and Herbie Albert. I admired those guys, you know, and I know you had your journey with them. How cool were they?

Yeah? As cool as a guess. I ran into her my best my favorite Herb Albert store. You know, I've known him since I'm nine years old. Is Roy booked their book t Herb in the Tijuana Brass. And the first thing when I moved out to live in cal Cornia, the first weekend I was here, my dad took me to had to cover a Herb date at the Greek And that was literally the first my first weekend here. But cut two years later and I've gone to I've been, you know, all these different things, a concert promoter, a drummer, a record company executive, a manager, And now I'm at Warner Brothers and I'm a vice president of something at Warner Brothers, and you know, feel I'm pretty accomplished. I'm in I'm renting a house in mal a little bit with some friends and I walk into that Trencus Market and there's Herbie and I'm like, Herb, how are you doing now? And I think he's going to, you know, be impressed with my film career or something, and he's like, hey, Billy, Hey Billy, you're still playing drums. And I thought that's the night. I mean, that's just the coolest thing. Like this guy's just relating to me as a musician. He could care less about the other stuff. Are you playing drums? You having fun making music? It was so cool.

Herbie's still out there. He still works.

I mean he works, and Lonnie is gazing, and he scolps and he gives, he gives away money like you can't believe. I mean, there's just whole schools. This guy in Dow's he's he's incredible, and and UCLA, you know, they have a whole music school there. He's he's an amazing dude. He was my role model. You know. I was playing drums, you know, and all these lousy bands and I thought, you know, luckily because of my father, I knew what a lousy band was when I heard it, and knew it had no future. And because my dad was a lousy trumpet player, and I know what happened to him, and you know, so although it did keep him out of D Day, but I literally had this epiphany like, well, I'm going to be like Herb Albert. I'm going to be a musician that are a record, going to make records, to make other people's records, And that was the first Aha moment I ever had professionally, was thinking about Herbie and wanting to get into music so that I could eventually, you know, control my destiny as a musician. Didn't end up going that way. Things happened because of Herb Albert that I even, you know, went and got a real job.

Tell me, tell me your favorite drummer, Billy, and then I want to know your favorite drum solo rock rock? Who was it, Buddy Rich?

There's Ringo Ringo first, Really you said rock drummer. Yeah, yeah, Ringo Ringo.

Not bonhom not Bonham.

Bottom comes later, but you know, there's Ringo and then you know everybody else, and you go back, you listen to all those records and Ringos that he's the he's the trailblazer, he's the innovator, He's he's the man. But Love Bottom, you know, love Ginger Baker.

Bottom solo to me is classic, just the beginning of.

Rock and roll. Bottom, you know, which, by the way, I just kind of had a couple of months ago. It's a Chuck Berry riff that he turned into a drum intro for rock and roll.

Yeah, they were all influenced by Chuck.

It's a Chuck Berry riff.

Yeah, well they all lifted from Chuck. Beatles everybody. He was the guy.

Yeah, he was the guy. But I mean, drummer wise, you know, I can go on forever. I mean I had dinner at a it was at a dinner party with Ron Burkle's the other night, and Jim Keltner was there, and you know, you would have thought, I mean I didn't. I didn't let the guy alone for a minute. Poor guy. I just geeked out.

Yeah, he was on a couple of my records.

Yeah, he's cool.

Jordan's into music, and Jordan's into drummers and the whole bit.

I interviewed Keltner last week. Actually, he was on a panel I was hosting for the mind Games reissue that's coming out.

Oh that's cool.

I just listened to a whole Elliott Mint's interview on yeah, on the Beatles Channel. Yeah, very cool talking about that.

Oh that re issue is incredible.

Yeah.

And Keltner obviously, I mean he told some amazing stories about going way back with John and Yolk, all the way back to you know, going out of Tittenhurst and do an imagine out there and so cool.

I just listened to I just watched They did a documentary on Nicky Hopkins and Nicky was talking about not being being able to play on How Do You Sleep? He just said, I can't do it. I can't do it too nasty. Yeah, yeah, I just I can't. I can't start burying Paul like that. I just I'm out as some other piano player.

When we were at that house that you were living in for a while, it was Elvis's house, it was a picture of your dad, right, I wasn't their picture of dad on the wall.

There was Oh yeah, no, there's a there's a couple. But there's an artist named Neil Specter, right, and he did kind of like a he did a portrait, not a portune, but he hit this picture of my dad that he did some treatment on and we all have them up in our houses. It says Hollywood agent under my dad. And funny enough, he really wasn't a Hollywood guy at all. He wasn't in the movie business much. But you know, if a client, you know, I mean, when Diane Carroll started doing Dynasty and stuff like that, he he was involved in that. But he wasn't really a Hollywood guy. I mean, he was a Vegas guy. That was that was his first love. You know, Paul knows.

He's very close to Normy Weiss, who was my dear friend and associate for years. He and Normy were buddies.

And Normi's my godfather. I'm actually William Norman Gerber. But Paul should tell the Beatles story, because you know, Norman and my father got a ton of credit for bringing the Beatles to America and putting him on the Element Show. But it was the guy on the they suggested one of them get their asses over to London and sign this band.

I've told that story, I think a couple of times, right, guys. But yeah, you know I saw the Beatles, and I think I might have told you. You know, I was in Paris and hanging out there and loving it and got married there. But I worked the Olympia Theater, which was the Classic theater, and I went to see a friend of mine who was headlining over there, and I was very impressed, obviously with Paris, and I was taking it all in and I was sitting there and you know, waiting for my friend on the second half and ladies and gentlemen, please welcome from non bets. And these guys walked out. I'm looking what Beatles? You know, you remember it was who knew from Beatles. We dominated the charts. Nothing was happening, but these Beatles. These guys come on and I said, ship that's wild, you know. So I met him. They came to see my show. I you know, I got to know them, hung out in London. But you know, it wasn't the media driven society back then. It was all telegrams and phone calls when they work. And I came back to normany who. He and Sid Bernstein were my agents, and I said, hey, guys, this guys the Beatles, and listen to these records I got. And the enormo said, what the fuck? What do you mean Beatles? You know he was pushing me and Frankie Avalon and we're fucking Beatles. I said, I'm telling you, these guys are amazing. I kept hounding them and hounding them and hounding them every time. I would go to London and come back to New York, back and forth, and finally, as you said, Billy whatever moved them. They went over and saw Epstein. They signed him and brought them over on at Sullivan show. That was the first show.

And you know, it was Sandy Gallan who they sent down because he had a friend at ED Sullivan and they were like, Sandy, don't you have some friend that works at ED Sullivan and sayings like yeah, They're like good, go down there, get the Beatles book and don't come back till they have a slot on the Ed Elevant show. And he went down there and he.

He was my agent two then he'd be booked an all password. What's my line? He was my guy and uh and I think he introduced and ran into Geffen because he and Geffen I think go way back and defen want. I think the one big mistake I th they made in my life, among many, was Geffen wanted to manage me. I was already tired with her Ringfeld and I looked back and I've even said it to David because he's brilliantly navigated himself to the top of the hill. Sure has What happened was the Beatles broke it wide open because back then nobody paid attention to us but our fans. You know, Madison Avenue had not embraced it. Parents didn't like us, you know, it was just in a infancy stage. And as soon as the Beatles hit and Madison Avenue jumped off, it opened up the business. I was thrilled. It took it to a new level. Those guys really changed everything. And interesting I tell the story, you know, because I lived in London also and recorded over there. I was there when this guy showed up, this guitar player, and he was featured in a small club on the East End of London. And every guitar player as it evolved out of the fifties, you know, they were all copying Chuck and everybody. They're all at this gig and this guy started.

To play I think it was it was it at the Ronnie Scott's.

Or might have been that was that was a jazz that was a jazz pack. I forget the name might have been, but the guy's name was Jimmy Hendrix. And every guitar player the way he played and edited, they were there, they couldn't believe what they were seeing. You saw the change with Clapton with Get to Do.

Yeah, no, no, that's a famous night that they all talk about that they all left going we're doomed. None of us can play like this.

Guy, Paul.

You mentioned David Geffens. So David, Billy and I are very very close friends, and Billy and I love David. But you know, David never brags about anything that he did in the past. Doesn't brag about it. He's not. It's amazing when you think of all the lives he touched and all the things he's done in the industry, and yet he doesn't talk about himself.

Which is sort of no, you gotta you gotta, you gotta yank it out of him. You know, you got a yank like, David, come on, did you know?

You know?

Did you know this one or that one? And then he'll tell you some story and you're like, what you were there? I mean, you know, it's just it's always one of those kind of things. But when I was listening to Clive's interview that he did with and he was talking about them doing that concert of you know, kind of all the acts that he had worked with, I thought, that's a very nice thing. And he's worked with some great acts, but can you imagine if they did that for David Geffen it would be a monumental, monumental.

His seventieth birthday party. Remember you know we had credit.

Turn Yeah, but that was great when with the Broadway stuff. But I mean, you know, Jackson probably just analysts, you know, handless great music from he taught. He signed, told me signed Jesse Collin Young and the Young Buds when he was still in the mail room. He found them and he had to get some agent to go with him because he wasn't allowed to sign anybody yet.

You know William Morris, right, yeah.

I mean he was that prescient about music.

Oh yeah, he was totally into music.

And he's by the way, Paul, he's the greatest consumer of content that billion billion I left. But all the time we'll call it David. It'll be on his boat or it'll be where everyone will say, hey, David, I just so this film is it just won't be out in theaters until tomorrow. Saw I. Oh, you know, but there's a soundtrack. There's the soundtrack is part of it. Yeah, I heard it right, he's ahead anything that's no.

But I say, he's seen stuff before it gets made. Just an amazing thing.

It's tough too, there's so much stuff out there. I don't have everybody keeps track of it years ago. At least you had a pulse of everything in a week years ago. Today, I mean bands I hear, I've never heard them before. People, it's amazing. You can't keep track of everything. It's scary.

People forget. You know. Top forty radio was very diverse. You know, people here Top forty they think it's just a bunch of popkits. But when we were listening to KHJ in the sixties, they went from the Temptations to the Stones, to the Supremes, to Jimmy Hendrix to the Rascals. That I mean, it just played the great songs. That was it. Top forties, Top forty.

You know, when did you make the leap from music to movies?

Really well, in the eighties, I was, you know, I've been. You know. Geffen got me a gig with Elliott Roberts in nineteen just the end of nineteen seventy nine. He introduced me to Elliott and David and I had become very close first through my dad because they were agents together. And then I ran into him at a concert, actually a foreigner concert, and we went to lunch over there with a mutual friend and he and I just you know, he's been such a guiding light for me ever since then. But so I was working with Elliott and then I started my own little shop after that, And because films started becoming very music driven. If you think about John Hughes, Breakfast Club and Footloose, and you know, a lot of those films, the soundtracks were making as much money as the movies are, in some cases more money. You know, Saturday Night Fever. I mean the money that Stigwin made on Greece and Saturday Fever was incredible. So the studios kind of went a little, you know, they kind of pivoted to, Okay, well what's going on in muse that we can use over here, And we collaborated on a few soundtracks and I started meeting some of the studios, and honestly, I looking back, I see how there are some moments in my life that were where I was very film driven. But I didn't go to film school. I had thought about it at one point and I thought that'd be cool, but I was just obsessed with drumming and didn't end up doing it. But you know, just serendipitously, as a kid, when i'd stay home from school, which I didn't like going to I'd be watching these classic movie channels. There was the one on Channel five in LA I think it was probably I don't even know if it was. I think it was UHF and they would just play Billy Wilder films and john Ford films and you know, on and on, and I ended up seeing all these great movies and it really, you know, like sense that boulevard. It really resonated with me. So all of a sudden, after doing these soundtracks and things, some of the executives at the studios asked me, you know, did I want to produce or do things? And I brought a couple of projects in and they we got them set up, and you know, in the movie business, to bring a project in and they buy it all of a sudden, your producer, whether you know what the hell you're doing or not. And I didn't, but I struck up these relationships which resulted in Warner Brothers asking me to come over and be a full time executive in the production department, and you know, and I wasn't going to do it until David Geffn called me and asked me, what kind of schmuck am I to turn down Warner Brothers And I was like, oh, I guess you're right, you know, I guess I better do this, and you know, and I did, and it was it was great experience. It was a time you know in the music. I mean, I you know, like you guys, I don't like to talk about how great it used to be. I mean, I think it's great now. But you know, this was a period when the movie business was kind of the best business in the world, and everybody wanted to be in it, and you made these amazing movies, and you got Academy Awards, and there's Clint Eastwood, and there's George Miller, and there's George Cooper, Stanley Kubrick in this one and that one. You know, I mean, I'm hanging out with Alan Pecoola and I mean, it was it was just an extraordinary It was the end of a real error with Bob Daily and Terry Summel, Michael Eisner and you know, all the all the people who really were these grown ups at Grand Studios and took responsibility for stuff and let let people, you know, why their freak flag a little bit make crazy movies. I mean, I made you know, La Confidential and Reversal of Fortune and JFK and Natural Born Killers. I mean, just why Yeah, I got to work on amazing movies, and you know that obviously has I mean, people still make some amazing movies, but it's not really the mainstream anymore. The mainstream turned into partly because of our you know, Batman movie originally in eighty nine, but you know, it's turned into a very tent pull driven business.

So Bill, I think you made a point lightly, but do you agree with me. I don't think it's a business anymore. I don't think the motion picture business is a business anymore, not like it was.

It's not a business, well not. It's not entrepreneurial anymore, that's for sure. It's it's just like the car business or any other big business. Then you have to, you know, deliver certain numbers, and you have to, you know, make certain parts of the company, you know, really work in tandem. You know. I just remember all these meetings of Bob and Terry where you'd be pitching a movie you wanted to make, and they'd be like, do you think it could win an Academy Award? I mean, I don't think anybody has that conversation anymore. I don't they don't care about winning an Academy Award.

But isn't it Billy, I think a lot of the you look at the the awareness and how important stars are in film is not like yesterday. But I think it is important because it's all about winning that Academy Award today. Isn't that?

I don't, drily, I don't. I don't think an Academy Award moves the needle. I think it's partly our fault in the film business that we've been kind of paying extra attention to more obscure movies. So when people, if they even to an end to watch the Academy Awards, the odds are they probably haven't seen most of the movies that are nominated, and that's been a real issue for the Academy to try to make it more relevant include more of the big hits. You know, there's just because it's big doesn't mean it's bad. I mean, I've seen great movies. I mean I thought Barbie was a great movie. Openhearm was a great movie. You know, Deadpool? To me is I mean you can make a great movie that does. I mean, look, Star is Born. Just to flex a little bit, we did a half a billion dollars. It's a great movie, you.

Know, flex it was really a good movie.

Joker did a billion dollars. It's a brilliant movie, you know.

So you know what, Paul Billion and I Billy comes over like pretty much every weekend we watch movies. I have to hate to say, if we watched ten films over ten weeks, we go by the sort of the defining thing for us is would we recommend it? Like what I call you and say, hey, Billion, I started this movie, you have to see it. I have to say eight out of ten? You just wouldn't do that. And yet you turn on you know, you watch these various series on television, right and an Apple TV or a Netflix or whatever. There's some great series on like Reversalfortion right now, unbelievable series, everybody loving it. But was it fair to say, Billy most of the films that we watch, and Billy is the curator, right, I'll call Billy, I'll say what films should we get for this weekend? And Billy will say, well, let's get this one in this one, because sometimes we'll get two. And my batting average is that about right about eight out of ten or in that film?

So that we would recommend, I mean unfortunately, yeah.

Yeah.

But here's the thing, you know, and I had this. I had this debate with my ex wife, my ben wife years ago, and you know, the movie business was putting the kids through private school. But she one day said to me, you know, TV is so much better than movies. And I went, okay, well, here's the difference. You know, first of all, you're in your house, you don't have to leave to watch TV. Show doesn't cost anything. You know, at that point, there wasn't even I mean, there was Netflix, but you know she was watching I mean, we were all watching twenty four and things like that. But my point where it was the degree of difficulty, you know, like the Olympics, whatever, the you know, the high jump or whatever, to get somebody off their couch in their car to a movie theater, to park, babysitter, da da, it's expensive proposition, and you have to make something so compelling that people have to go see it, which I'm happy to say this summer, people do seem to be going to see a lot of pictures. But when you're watching TV and let's say a show is eight episodes or it's twelve episodes, or the old days, it was twenty two episodes. Not every episode was great, but because you didn't have to do much to watch the next episode. And it happens to me all the time. We're all even like Baby Reindeer, you know, like the first one, you're kind of like, what's going on in the second one, and then it just starts getting so good. You can't believe how talented this filmmaker is. By the end, you're just you know, same with Ripley, You're just your mind is blown by the end. But you know, if it were a movie and you were watching that first or second episode, you might have been like, why did we come here? You know, whereas you know with TV, you've got you've got people's patients, you know, going for you.

But whether it's breaking bad or I mean for me, the only benefit of COVID was I actually rewatched all those Sopranos, starting with you know, episode one, season one, all the way through.

I mean, incredible.

That's as good as you know, better than anything I've seen on the movie.

No, that's as good as it gets. It's you know, Peter Rice, who ran Fox and incredibly accomplished executive, he said, you know, He was somebody that had been h you know, kind of cajoling me about getting into television way back when. He and I said, you know, yeah, kind of a movie guy. And he said, yeah, but if there's a movie you love, like The Godfather, you get to do it for fifty hours. And I was like, yeah, you're right, that's kind of and that's what's I mean in my mind. Sopranos was kind of you know, David Chase going, I'm gonna take I'm gonna take ideas like The Godfriend. I'm gonna do it for fifty hours, you know, and people loved it.

Is Peter Rice, the guy who introduces me to it Casey Wasserman's party, Yeah, live.

Movies exactly, featuring the character playing your wife.

Yeah.

True.

I'm looking forward to seeing it. So what is he He's a Is he a studio producer? Peter ris or is independent producers?

He's doing it on his own at the moment, but I mean he's been offered every job in town. He's super talented. But I think he's just got his own shop now and producing that movie's doing with a twenty four, I believe, and I'm sure he's got stuff around town. It's very well respected.

And how did you start? How did you get started? Because he did so many projects with Clint Eastwood? How did that come about?

Joe Hyms, the legendary publicity guy who I just told this story about him the other day. You know, he he was a beat reporter for some non existent or cease to be existent newspaper in New York and he was covering a raid on a gay party, you know, which people like to do in those days. And so he walked in and he caught this movie star in a compromising position. And he went to work the next day and MGM was on the phone offering of a job so that he would never publish the story that he had come upon at this party. And so he goes to work at MGM. And he was a guy, I mean, he's such an amazing guy. Anyway, so he goes he goes to work at MGM and they go, yeah, you understand articles and press that we're gonna you're going to be a unit public system. So they send him on his first gig, which was on the waterfront, and so you know, Brando loves him, they all love him, and he gets back movie raps and they're like, Okay, people liked you, We're gonna send you on another one. And he goes, you know, okay, great the next his second job is from here to eternity. I mean, that's how this guy starts in the movie business. Anyway, when I got to Warm eighty six, I ran into Joe. He knew my mom from New York. They were all friends with these Gray advertising guys like Pickkarp and everyone in Sandy Rise of back et cetera. And so he just took me under his wing and he said, you know, I'm going to take you down to see Clint because you know you're into music. He's in the music. Were both musicians, and he said, I want Clint to meet some young people, like he's enough with Bob and Terry used to know some young people at the studio. So I go down. Clint was finishing Bird. He actually had Charlie Parker's you know, the living members of Charlie Parker's band were doing the music for Bird. And so, you know, I walk into the studio on the lot and there's Clint that Anyway, he and I started talking and then Joe took us all to a movie festival in Utah and wasn't yet, it wasn't called Sun Dance yet, And you know, Clint, we just hit it off and we struck up this amazing friendship that's been so powerful in my life. I mean, I I mean, it's just an extraordinary I was talking to Pam Abdey and mikel Luca about this a few weeks ago because Clint came and did A and A, Q and A with them before a movie they wanted to show at the studio. And there's never a time I'm with him that I don't get something. I mean, Paul knows him forever. I mean just he's just so humble, but he's so knowledgeable, and he's so wise, and he's just such an incredible guy, and you know, it's just it's a pleasure to know him. And that's that's how I met him. And then I found this script that Charlie Sheen had given me called The Rookie that Charlie controlled, and I asked Terry Semmel because Charlie said, you know, I want to do this at Clint East. But I said, well, then you should give it to me, because he basically does all his movies at Warner Brothers, and so I called Terry Simmel and I gave him the script and Terry said yeah, and he sent it to Clint and you know, a week later, because that's how Clint works, yes or no, you know, it's not like I'll get back to you or maybe after this. You know, he just reads something, he goes and shoots. It's it's the most incredible you know, yeah Spielberg about it. It's one of the most remarkable ways of making movies anybody we've ever seen anyway, And so he said, yes, the rookie, and everybody kind of went, you know, who are you? And I was like, just you know, doing my job, and you know, they couldn't believe I came up with a script that Clint would do. And then you know, next thing, you know, we're all in cann together and we're here and we're in Scotland and we're with Steve Ross and it's just been quite a ride knowing him. And I was so happy to see him for weeks ago on the lot and he's an extraordinary man. And I saw some director had a trucker hat on in a picture. I saw this a few years ago, and it just said, what would Clint do? And I always think, you know, when I see when I'm on a set, my own or somebody else says, I see what's going on. And I think everybody who wants to be in film should find any job they can get on a clean Eastwood movie. So you know how to do it because he knows how to do it better than anybody. The set is calm, he doesn't spend a penny more than he needs to. Everybody, I mean, he gets online for food like everybody else. Is just an incredible work ethic, you know.

Yeah.

Skip. He was my neighbor up in Carmel, as Billy mentioned, and I knew him all those years up there. His family very close. I grew up with my girls. But one of the great things he asked me to do a party or something he was doing up there, and I said, well, look, I got my way and I'll change the words, which I started doing years ago. I said, but I'll only do it if you'll sing with me. You want me to sing with you? I said yeah, I said it'll be great. Listen, just trust me, all right, Okay, So he said, well, come on, we'll go up on the warners plane, I go over. I meet him at bird Bank and he walked. He walked on the plane, carrying his own suit. The tie was hanging around the hangar. And we get on, you know, and I'm convincing him he's got anyway. We get up there, he sings, he's great and everybody loves him. And he said, you know, I'm thinking running for mayor. I don't like the bullshit that's going on in town. This is Carmeal. I gotta I gotta give a speech from the steps of the town hall there. I said, you know the way I love you, madly man. You got your thing, but nobody's gonna fucking hear you the way you talk. You're so cool, you know. And I said, you're gonna have like two hundred whatever's going to show up on the sideway's all right, you know. I'm just gonna do what I do. And I said, no plane. You know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna pay I'm gonna I know the sound company San Francisco, and I'm gonna truck some equipment down and we're gonna put the speakers on the stairs. Bring get a microphone, and you're gonna talk to the people, and you're gonna become mayor anyway. Fade out, faye. They bring the equipment. He gets up there and he starts talking on the microphone. Everybody could hear. Right, he gets elected mayor. But he's just the most lovable and as you say, you know, there are guys like that that are wired like that. They're like that all the time, no matter what, you know, it's like that. We had him on a few weeks ago. Carlos slim, Right, Carlos is exactly in business the way Clint is. But Clint is, how's he doing?

Man?

Is he doing that project in Africans?

Ago?

Did he go to Africa to do it?

No?

He just did one. He just shot one in Georgia. I think it's called Jury number juror number two something like that or three. And it's a courtroom drama and he's shot. He knocks him ount in Georgia. He loves working there. He's got a gusted down the road. You know, hey just hit a couple and he was down there, you know, but he uh so, he just finished that. But he seems great. He seems I mean, he was looking for his next movie.

Just had a birthday, right, Billy didn't have.

Just ninety four and he's still and now he's looking for his next film. You know, he's a gangster. He just doesn't stop.

But you know what, I didn't know him at all, never met him. But when Bud Yorkin was toward the end of his life, you know Bud's wife, Cynthia, who was just extraordinary. The way she took care of him, it was amazing. But she would invite people to come over and you know, to go there to have dinner with Bud. And Bud didn't even know where he was. I mean, but he was, you know, all dressed up. And one night Clint, Clint came over and he sat there and just talked to Bud. It was the most extraordinary thing head and ever sitting there watching It's just like we were sitting like this and you know, you couldn't tell it, but couldn't understand anything was going on because but he was just staring at Clint sort of like to do I know this guy? And Clint was so kind and so just thoughtful, and he just said, bug, you remember that time when we were in Sun Valley, Idaho and you were driving the car and he just went on for like three quarters of that.

That's a lot when you know he's not a talker. He is not a talker, you know. I mean, you could get him going, you know, you hit on the right topics and stuff like that, but he's not a guy that needs to hear his own voice at all, at all. He just doesn't have that.

He was just doing this for a friend.

Yeah, that's that's that's my point. He just you know, when I've had, you know, moments in my life that were less than joyous, Clint was one of the first phone calls I would I would always get, you know, when when stuff got tough, you know.

Speaking of a tough billy. You know, you look at the litany of the great films and how tough when you look at The Godfather and how he fucked to keep that film together in a town where they eat their dead, but the battle that he went through to make such a great film. What was your toughest challenge in making a film? I always love those stories. Were you stick with your conviction?

What was the toughest I mean, I gotta say Starsborn was really hard to get made. Once we were shooting, it was great, you know, and Bradley Cooper wasn't. I mean, you know, the guy hadn't directed a school play, I mean up to this point, and he just, I mean, all of a sudden, he just turned into this brilliant filmmaker and singer. We all knew he was a brilliant actor. But the eleven years up to that point when it wasn't Bradley Cooper and Lady Gaga and everybody else, there were so many twists and turns and movies falling apart and coming back together. And this actor and this actress. I mean, it was rough, and there were so many different versions of the film, and there were many times I just thought all all was lost. But you know, it's a miracle, more now than ever. But it's a miracle that anything gets made. I mean, the way these things have to either get independently financed or work their way through the studio system, it's it's you heard even r J was talking about it, you know, like he had a script and said he needed eight and the guy said, can you do it for six? And you know, it's it's really tough. I mean, you know, people call me, hey, can you read the script? And a lot of times I mean, I try to read everything I can, because like Brandtorino came to me that way, just out of nowhere, and I hadn't just read it, I wouldn't have worked on, you know, one of my favorite movies I've ever worked, ever seen for that matter, you know, So you got to read this stuff. But I'm working my butt off trying to get stuff made. I mean, it's a lot of work, and it's very hard, and you have to stay passionate year after year after year to actually see anything through to fruition. But that's the gig, you know. I mean, you guys remember Kirk Douglas and The Bad and the Beautiful. I mean, it's the way it works. You just he would have to persevere. I mean luckily, you know, I'm an endurance athlete, so I trained for this every day. You know, I trained with this every day.

That's our business.

On the Star is Born? How many iterations were there?

Was it?

Four of that film?

Oh yeah, we made the fourth. It's actually there was one before the title of Stars Born, called What Price Hollywood Constant Bennett That was quite fantastic. But yeah, then there was Janet Gayner, Judy Garland, Barbistroisa and Lady Gaga all great. They're all great. You know, people said to me, you know why, you know, why did you let him die at the end, because hey, I'm a schmuck. You know, I had no sequel. But you know, I was like, what am I gonna do? I mean, it's that four remake. I mean, the guy dies, it's the story. Trust me. I would love to have kept him alive. And her have a kid and they're a trio something. I don't know.

But you nailed it, man, you know, you nailed it.

We did. We did. It's a good team nailed it.

And the music was great. And she was great.

You know, he was incredible. Yeah, she was incredible. He was incredible.

I mean he just you know, oh, he's I love Bradley. He's great.

He's you know, he just sent me. He just sent me a video. He went up on he went on on stage with Eddie Vedder and sang, uh, you know this song from the movie that Jason is Isbel wrote and he he's singing with Eddie Vedder and holding his own just incredible, incredible stuff. Guy.

Yeah, how about her? How was she to work with?

God?

She was incredible. You know, she man, and you know, she gave us a lot of material. I mean when she told Eric Roth and Will Fetters and Bradley and you know, even Andrew Dice Clay. You know, when she started talking about her own life and her struggle and you know, the intense chauvinism and the music business, a lot of that made its way into the story and it was it was great narrative and she just she crushed it.

Well. She rules like a lot of women today, the strength of women today and the star power and their contribution for music and in film deservedly.

So, man, I'm with you. You knew my mom, you know she was no pushover. But you know, we started shooting right after we started shooting Stars Born, right after Lady Gaga headlined her her first weekend at Coachella, because she actually headlined the festival right when we started shooting, and which was great for us because I already had made a deal with AEG to use the grounds of the stage and all that stuff. So this is just, you know, really smooth the way for us to do what we needed to do there. But I stuck around to see her show. She comes out in this leather jacket. She's up on top of the you know, of the lighting gate, and she starts singing, and I was like, holy shit. I mean it was like Mick Jagger. You know, she just was was killing it. She's she's a force. She's a force.

When we were talking earlier about films and now challenging can be defined. You know some good ones like what's if you're doing a short list of your favorites, where would you go with that?

Well, I mean, you know, Sunset Boulevard is meaningful, The godfathers me. I mean, mine's not that different than anybody who really loves films. You know, some like it hot. You know, we all love you know, Billy Wilder and David Lean and David Lean, my god, Sam Spiegel, you know, and Clint you know. I mean I just remember watching the Spaghetti Westerns. I mean, my dad would take us to the drive in all the time. I see those movies and you know, getting and then twenty years later to be able to talk to Clint about how they were made was such a such a great experience. But I really love movies. I'm of the I mean, I'm of one of the generations who see that as you know, a national pastime of going into a theater, the lights coming down, the previews, and then magic, if you know, when it's magic. Not always magical, but that moment when George Lucas or Steven Spielberg or James Gray or David Fincher or Chris Nolan or Richard link Letter or Oliver Stone or Bradley Cooper, you know, takes you into this world and you're there and you're just experiencing such a gift that you know, you could argue it's the French or the Americans, whoever invented this thing. It's it's our mythology. You know. It's like Tom Hanks, I'm happy to say I worked on this movie You've Got Mail. You know Tom Hanks turns and he says, you know, he learns in the Godfather. It's just it's so true. These things become touchstones for all of our ethics and humanity. And you know, I think about you know, Miracle on thirty fourth Street or you know, it's a wonderful life, and you know, just these things are you don't you don't, I mean, you just never forget those type of lessons.

You know, the great magic you know you mentioned all those films because I look at everything as a musician. But turn the sound off and just watch some of the great films and then turn it back on and see what a real composer does with a score and where they take a film. The magic of Enil Morricone, all those guys. Yeah, I marvel at how And you know that the unsung heroes they with all those guys and they put those notes on that paper. You know, I look at it say I'm nothing without them. But you look at a great film and you've got a great score, and it clicks. Some of those guys know the film better than the director.

The other thing, when you know, whether it's Bohemian Rhapsody or it's Dreams. There are moments when I'm watching a film music driven, it works like it worked in the Stars Born't for people, you know, they thought they were the rock concert. You know, even the Taylor Swift movie, even though it's a concert film, it's a film. And and when it works, you know, when when Loving Mercy, for example, you know the Each Boys film that Bill pull I'd made, It's like when you see starting to work. You know the commitments, you know, and the groove is there, Paul, and you just sit You're sitting in your seat and you're like it transports you. You know, it's just the most incredible thing. I mean, for me, like, you know, my reason for everything was a Hard Day's Night. You know, I was eight or nine and babysitting was my mom getting some guy to take us to the Hard Day's Night. That's how she got rid of us. And I've seen the movie one hundred and fifty times and it never gets dull. But for me, you know, Hard Day's Night, nice little yeah, the Knick and Bocker for me when they start playing, and it just it just changed the trajectory of my life. That was everything for me, you know. And so I guess I secretly always wanted to make films that had a lot of music in them, and unfortunately I've been able to to do some of that.

But was that dick Lester excuse me?

Ability was he did ye Leicester? Yeah he did that, and hell.

Yeah he called us. I did a film called Lonely Boy with the Canadian National Filmboard counter and he called us and used that film that I produced with him as the model for Hard Day's Night. We won awards all over the world with this film called Lonely Boy, remember now, which is now the core of a documentary that they're doing on me. But I remember Lester called and he said, I love that film you guys did, and I want to see it. And whatever he did, he got that cinema verte kind of look from what we did with Lonely Boy, because that was the first film on a on a pop star.

You know.

Yeah, no, I mean it's a great They're both great films. But you know, Skip was asking how I got into movies. You know, I told you how, But the fact is I still didn't know anything about movies and I was trusted with this enviable job at Warner Brooks and Paul I think you'll appreciate that. The only I mean, I started reading everything in sight. I mean I was reading literally between twenty five script peek, you know.

And.

And I just I had I didn't want to be a dummy. I wanted to know what all these smart other you know, these movie executives were talking about and understand what they were talking. So I'm reading everything. But at the end of the day, it's like Dick Clark, it moves you or it. Yeah, there's a lot of technical craft aspects to making movies, but the way I decided to do my job was as a musician, like feeling it or I'm not feeling it. I even would talk to these writers about, you know, how the movie was being or you know, not as musically but narratively, how it's being orchestrated. When do you build and when do you get quiet and when do you go? You know, when we were working on the original Twister movie and there's a sequel coming out, I guess this weekend original backscript Michael Crichton and his wife at the time, and and it was, you know, great script. When it was done and we were editing, when Jandbant finally showed this this early cut to Spielberg, who was the producer, he gave everyone these amazing notes and the biggest one was that the movie started here, and it started with this twister that like took everything apart and you really had nowhere to go. And it was Steven Spielberg that so like, let's save that, Let's earn the big twister, you know in the third act. And it was like you know, yeah, yeah, and Bill get there, you know, don't just hit everybody bang, where are you gonna? What are you gonna do? You know you can't follow it.

So Paul mentioned the documentary. You've done a bunch, but so what are you working on now?

Well, we have a documentary on Elizabeth Taylor that comes out next month on HBO.

That's whoa.

It's incredible.

I mean, Paul, you probably have some good I know you got good Eddie Fisher stories.

I've been in her company a few times. Listen. I was over doing a Tom Joe. We'll get to it, Billy, because I'm interested in what you're doing. I'm overdoing a Tom Jones special. And I'd written She's a Lady for him, and I'm staying at the Dorchester Hotel, which was the place way back when.

How many people can say I just throw out, yeah, I wrote she's a lady for him.

Anyway, yeah, anyway.

So so and I drive home and it was way out of Pinewood or one of those places. And I get home at the Dorchester and had all those great sweets. I'm sure you've stayed at the hotel up on tell Us about one o'clock and I'm tired, and you know, I had the butler service and all of that. So I called for the butler and he shows up. I'll decked out. You said, what can we do for you, miss Dongle. I said, well, little some eggs, and you know, he said, well that's wonderful, but if you do it mine, we're we were running a little bit late and we have to take care of miss Elizabeth Taylor next door. First, I said, well that's fine. I'm just jump in the shower and whenever you get here, you take care of So jump in the shower and I'm getting out and I'm wiping off the doorbell rings after I'll let the waiter is. So I go to the door. I'm nothing to look at anyway. I gotta tell wrap them molomy. I'm five four. I looked like a camel just licked me all over. And I opened the door for the waiter.

Right.

I helped the door for the way, and Elizabeth Taylor is standing there in a neglige with two cats. I don't know if I said, I love your pussy, so your cats, I don't know what I said, but she starts talking to me. You know, there's there's all of us, no matter what we think of ourselves and our egos. You'll meet that one person in your lifetime where that was the one for me. And I looked at her and she was so sweet and those eyes and said, you know, I want to say, I want to thank you so much for telling the waiter to take care of me. First. You know, Richard's out of town and I'm alone, and I don't know what, but that was my outing with Elizabeth Taylor. Well, of course I saw our way after that, but I'll never forget that moment in that hotel and her and those two cats, because she loved animals. That was their whole thing. She loved animals.

I only met her a couple of times with at Sandy Allen's house. But Carol bear Seger, who's an old friend.

Er, yeah, backrack put me.

You know, she's the one that made this all happen. You know. I made this Muhammad Ali two part documentary with this team with Glenn Zipper and Sean Stewart and you know the people we did and anyways, so Anton Flukela directed it. But yeah, we were done. It was a great experience. And I said, well, which seem, what's your dream documentary? You know, because not like you, Anka, But I've been around a while and know a lot of people. I figured I could come up with whatever he goes. Li was bit Taylor. I said, oh, let me call you right back. So I called Carol. I said, Carol, we want to do that or that. Next thing I know, I'm talking to the estate. Next thing, I know him in the office. Next thing you know, I'm making a deal. And she was incredible, and they stated are incredible people, and they do such a good job with her legacy. But they're they're great to work with. But yeah, that's how how that one happened.

Anyway.

It's on HBO August third. And by the way, I loved RJ's story about ending up after a night with her and Eddie ending up at the wrong hotel and getting in a fight with the receptionist and the guys like I'm sorry, mister Wagner, but you're not here and that's why we don't have a room for you. Anyway, So we get that. We just did this amazing documentary with a director named Dustin lance Black who won the Academy Award for writing Milk and he's an extraordinary talent, and we came together to do this story which you'll appreciate, Paul, because Epstein and everything, and it's about the queer origins of rock and roll. And it's a story people don't talk about. They don't talk about Larry Parnes. They don't talk about Epstein and Stigwood and Kit Lambert and this real, you know, incredible group of man and Vicky Wickham and also women who had this vision of what Rocket would be. You know, Brian Epstein. I mean if I walk in and see the Beatles at the Cavern, I don't know that I would have said, I'm going to put him in pr Carden suits and I'm going to cut their hair and I'm gonna put it. I mean, his vision turned them into this power, incredible quartet that took over the world, thank God. So anyway, so it's a story about that and the origins and and and and then you know, this is a great line in the in the movie where I think it's Jim Farber, who's a writer for The Guardian the New York Times says, you know, the thing about about Hollywood is you have gay men pretending to be straight to get roles and music, where you have straight men pretending to be gay records, you know, and you think about kiss or who you know, the makeup and the boots and this and then that, you know, and it's just such an interesting thought. Anyway, that's that's our next one. And then we have projects around town that we're what we're hustling our butts off to get made some really good stuff. I got to say, we're doing one at Hulu about the I call him the Rock and Roll made off. That guy Lou Pearlman who invented Backstreet Boys.

Oh down in Miami, Florida, went to jail.

Yeah, great story, Yeah Orlando, Yeah, backs you Boys and then sank and you know, stole five hundred million dollars. And it's like the producers, nobody understand. It's like you're six, like you're really good this, Why are you still ripping people off? He couldn't help himself.

It couldn't help m He was a he was a you know, yeah, total thief. When he ripped those kids out, well he's gone, but that happened a lot.

He ripped them off, He ripped his investors off.

Yeah, even when I was growing up, you know, they're ripping us all off. You know, we were just happy to be where we were, but they were stealing from us in every way. All of those kids got ripped off, all of the big rhythm and blues acts which influenced us. They were all getting ripped Even Buddy Hawley, you know, became my friend and then we lost him. You know the reason he went on his own.

I love yoursel.

Yeah, he just you know, things went wrong and they were taking his money and he was on his own and you know the rest of that. But we're all getting ripped off. I mean, thank God for Irvingfeld and guys like Normie who were in my life at least you know I trusted, but uh, that's been going on forever, going on.

He was, you know, skip and I went to Beverly Hills at the Saban. I think it was last year. And I don't know if I have any of your other guests had that experience, but I know they're a spry eighty two or whatever. And I've seen you with your shirt off, because I came to see you at Tahiti Beach last summer and you look amazing. But it was such an extraordinary evening. And you know, every lane in your life, you're still like a kid. It's an extraordinary thing. And people the way they should look at Clint directing, they should look at you, not just singing and writing, but the way you live your life. I mean you literally. And this is something I thought about a lot of you guests when I listened to whether I have or Steve when even our Jane away, no one is sitting around satisfied. They're all looking at the future. The future is bright. RJ is looking for a great script. You're writing great songs. And to watch you at the Saban, you taught you were sick as a dog. You told the Bobby that you told the Buddy Holliday story, which was great. But you're saying I'm looking there are there are eighty year olds, and I saw kids eight, nine, ten years old who knew the lyrics to your songs TikTok and that you know. I was just at the Rolling Stones. I didn't see any nine year olds who knew the words of Jumping Jack Flash. I did, and the Stones were great. But the span of your audience is extraordinary. But you know I've gotten You've always been such a great friend of my family, and I know you so well, and I've always has been in awe of the way you live your life. And then don't get me started about Skip, who's literally become like the heartbeat of Los Angeles and none of us do anything without checking with him first. But you know, as Paul says, the town's prior. But you know you are. You guys are incredible friends. But I wanted to say something about about seeing your show, and also for me, the lesson seeing the people like Clive Davis who doesn't even list mo or only listens to new music, and and and it's just it's just those people have to understand. You know, Clint East to it after a million Dollar Baby. You know, his mom had just passed away, and I called him. You know, he hadn't been down here for a while, he was up in Carmel, and Clint, I just got to say, I can't think of another filmmaker. I mean, he was seventy something at that point. I can't think of another filmmaker who is still who went into their seventies making relevant movies. I mean, he hadn't even done Grand Tino and Sniper yet, you know, he had just done a million Dollar Baby and mister River had been forgiven you know, he obviously made a zillion great movies. But you know, and I'm going on, you know, how great way he is and he goes, yeah, and he calls me biblos. That's another story from Santa Okay, great, but he calls you know and he says, you know, he goes, bibe. I got to tell you, I still don't think I've done my best work. And it was like it was like getting a hit over the head, you know, with a gong. I was like, that's the secret. That is a secret, you know, and that this guy gets up every morning going all right, how am I going to do it better? How am I going to do it great? And I know you're the same way. You're you know, writing and you're singing, you're going, you're talking about the dates, you're doing an aspect and then you go to Europe. I mean, it's just an extraordinary thing. And that's what life is for. It's for you got to eat it up.

Well, you stand still, billy, You stand still and they throw dirt on you. That's it. You stand still, they throw dirt on you, and you got to keep thinking young, that's all keep going, you know.

Yeah, I mean people say I want to retire and wherever like and do what? Do it? Every day?

You know what, Billy, when somebody says to me. When somebody says to me, I'm going to retire, you know what, I say to them, you already.

Have yeah, or you'll be dead in a month.

Yeah. They read the books, they watch the TV, and then they're dead. You can't.

You can't, generous time. But before you go, our producer Jordan, who's a music nut in a Beatles freak and who, by the way, when I heard chose somebody to produce the you know, the Paul McCartney podcast, they picked our boy, wanted to over here. I'm sure he had a question that you want to ask you before we go, So Jordan, take it away.

Oh man, I mean, I don't want to talk to off about the Beatles, but I actually had another question for you, unrelated to the Beatles. I went to school for screenwriting, and the movie that made me want to be a writer, my Beatles on Sullivan moment was seeing The Odd Couple That script.

To me.

I was a little kid, and I just thought it was the funniest thing I'd ever seen.

I thought Neil Simon was just a genius. You see the poster us wrong? Hang and you can't. I can't see the poster.

It's right.

I can't see it's on my wall anyway. So, yeah, you're reading an Odd Couple? The screenplay you or the play or the show? What did you read?

I saw the movie with Walter Matthew and Jack Lemon, and then I got the big compilation of all Neil Simon's plays, and the Odd Couple to me is just that that's my personal creative big bang. And I know you have a very personal connection with that script, and I want to ask you about that.

Yeah, it'd be hard to be more personal than my connection to Odd Couple. But you know when my mom, Paul knows my parents were crazy. So the first time my mom, first of all, I got married, they got divorced, then they got married, moved to Vegas where Paul played the Sands Hotel, and you know, knew the whole story, Jack and Trotter, Belden cattleman, you know, the whole gang, Great Gang. By the way, was it Left Sets that you did? Paul? Was an ask listening to was the Left Sets? Anybody wants to be in entertainment needs to listen to that interview because it is a master's fucking class in showbiz. I mean, you explain every single the mob Paola and Roll movies. I mean, it's an extraordinary, extraordinary interview that I tell everybody about.

And left a lot out.

Then of course I call Paul does a rock and roll covers song covers album. I hear a black Hole Sun and I call him up and I'm like, dude, this record is incredible. Next thing, I know, I got the CDs, I've got the pressed whippings, I got the I mean, I'm like, he's CEO pop star. He's not just a He's CEO musician, you know, anyway like bon Jovi, same way bon Jovi like could run General Billy.

Going back to odd Couple, Do you know where that came from? Who they copied? Of course, Dave Tebbott and Sammy Khan. The odd couple is Dave Odd, Dave Tibbott and Sammy Khan.

Odd couple. No, no, no. Read Neil's book The Odd Jordan will Tatt. Here's what happened. So Lou Assaman moves my dad to first we're in New York, Vegas to New York. We're living in the century on Central Park West, and move, for whatever reason, moves my dad to LA and in those great offices you know that are by the seventy sixth station that was that was MCA, and that's where they had all the you know, that's where they got famous for all the antique.

Antiques, the gray suits, the shirts that it was unbelievable. Those guys, it was they were ahead of their time, right yeah.

So he's we're in LA and my mom, I don't know how long in La this happened, wasn't very long. My mom decides, not only does she not like La, she really doesn't like my father and she doesn't like driving. So she in that order.

Neil Simon line, right there, those three things in that order.

That's where you get it. So she picks us up and all of a sudden, we're back in the arch. We live on E. Sixty fifth Street. And you know, these guys didn't get paid a fort like you were saying, Paul. They were just happy to be in showbiz. I mean, my dad thought, you know, entertainers hung the moon. He wasn't in it to get rich. You know, the first guy that really figured out how to get Rich was Geffen. But anyway, so he needs a roommate. So his friend Danny Simon also just got thrown out of the house, and so they rent. It's not New York. They rent a house up on Beaumont and they're living together and everything's fine except my dad, who, as Paul knows, was a bit of a you know, lunatic. You know, he's having he's out with you know, this one and that one, and he's coming home at two in the morning, and you know, and Danny's cooking dinner and waiting for Roy. And Roy comes into two in the morning and Danny's like, where have you been? And my dad is appaulled. He's like, what are you? My mother? Play to me? Where I did you know? And this So this thing starts escalating, and Neil's hearing about this. Neil Simon's hearing about this, and he says, guys, you gotta let me write this, you gotta let me use this. This is the play, you know, And so he writes The Odd Couple. And if you read any of Neil's books, he says, thank you to Roy and Danny for the use of your life. So this has been something you know, I've been able to dine out on my whole life that my dad is the is the impetus and the inspiration for Oscar Madison, even though he wasn't that. You know, Neil obviously is a brilliant writer, and he made the guy lot, you know, made him what he was. But but cut to I make I buy this script aspectscript from John Davis called Grumpy Old Men in ninety one or something, and everybody liked it at the studio, you know, we wanted to do it. And so even though you would have thought Jack and Walter, I actually took two interesting shots. First, Paul, you'll appreciate this. I thought, what if I could reunite Barton? Oh wow? And I went, you know, I went to Dean and I went to Jerry. Neither of them had any interest in working. So that was that. But that was like if I could only I mean, my dad would be so proud of me, if I could reunite Martin Lewis.

You know.

I tried Redford and Newman about puschcasting and sudden that's kid, how perfect, you know, and those didn't work out. And then we got Jack because Fred Spector was just incredible. And he helped us put it together. And then we got Walter. And the reason I'm saying this is I get to the read through where you you know, where you have all the actors and you read through the script before you start shooting. And we're at the read through and I had never met Walter, and I introduced myself and he starts laughing about my dad and the hot teuble and everything, and he said, yeah, you know, I just did Roy. I just did Roy and it worked out great. And I was like, wow, this is just such a great day. You know.

I love seeing Roy and Norman together. I mean, those two, what love there was there? Huh. Normany was so special.

You know when they were on the road, you know, people, you know, people think that they had this amazing career. You know, when they started out, it was like Broadway Danny Rose. You know, they had a they had an exotic dancer, Theydquist. They could have gotten a refrigerated truck, they would have had a seal act you know. And and so one night there who knows where, you know, New Jersey, somewhere, and my dad goes to find Norman in the morning and he, you know, just you know, bursts into his room and no one's there, and the bed is red red, and my dad's convinced it's been murdered. And so he's walking all over Norman. Where are you?

You know?

Anyway, So he finally finds Norman and he's Normany. Okay, He's like, I'm fine. What what's wrong with you? He goes, I went in your room and blood everywhere. He goes, No, no, no no. Because I met this nice girl, I thought I would be some romantic and I covered the ben Rose paddles.

And oh, Normany's a whole other trip. What a beautiful man he was, though, God, I love I took him all.

Over the world with beautiful you know.

You know I rebuilt that bookstore.

For him, did you, Dolly?

He had this play skip up in Utah Dolly's bookstore with his family. Anyway, long story, we had a great relationship. He was a buddy blah blah blah, and it burnt down. So I gave him the money to rebuild the place because he was so into books. I mean, Normany was so well read. But that bookstore meant everything to them. And I've got such great memories guys.

Noo, you know in that movie I told you about that. We're doing that. We're just finishing.

Now.

What about the about the managers in England and everything? They found some footage of Epstein that the Masles shot that first time in America, you know, when they played DC and all that stuff. And they cut to this rainy day in the city, and and and and Brian. Epstein's in the back of this limo and he's talking away, and all of a sudden, the camera pans stood right, and there's Normy and it's just Norman and Epstein in the car and nor and Normy's telling him about the American TV business. I didn't even know the film existed. I'm seeing it. Wait, that's my god.

Wow, what year? What year was that? Was it sixty four? Sixty three? The footage must have been sixty three or sixty sixty three.

The end, it's early sixty four. It's when they went on the that's right.

They came over. The Sultan said, that's wild, you know it was. It was so magical back then when you saw all of this in this infancy stage starting to blossom, and it was it was literally we were all pioneers, you know, England knew from nothing. My agents, you know, the Grades, Loan, Leslie, Lou and Leslie Gray built an empire and they started in one office in London and they were the only agents and they were my agents when I got there, and we were all like this group of guys just starting and hoping to flourish. And I'll never forget they took me to a bar because I needed a band. You know, back then, I traveled with the suitcase. My music was in the suitcase, and I was making five hundred bucks a week and loving it right, And they took me to this bar and they said, we got this guy you got to see. And we go and we look and I see these guys in yellow suits and pink suits and black suits and yellow suits. And it was called the John Barry Seven. Well, of course John Barry went on to be one of the you know, all the James Bond, all the Fills. That was my first orchestra. And the Grades were my agents, Lou and Leslie, and they had one room in London overhead.

You know, I met when I was at Warner Brothers, a Bob Dallien London one time and he was so cool. I mean, I was like you're cirrh. I was like some presdent when we started talking.

And he forgot eighteen night. I said, hey, is there any chicks?

You know?

I mean before I had hit records, I couldn't score with a pinball machine, you know, so I get that. I said, hey, miss a great faked, is there any chicks? He says, well, yes, you know, there's someone here. I'd like you to me. And he introduces me to this beautiful, beautiful creature and I brought her over to the United States and she lived with me. Her name was June Wilkinson. Remember June Wilkinson, the most well endowed, and then she married Dan Paserini. What a wonderful person she was. That was my first major squeeze, and lou and Leslie introduced me. That was my side dish for a lot of years.

But that was your first. That was after Diana, right.

Oh, well, no, we didn't swap spit. Diana was bullshit. No, no, she wouldn't even look at me. She had nothing to say. I wrote the songs I sang at their parties. Correct, Well, yeah, who knew, you know. I left with one hundred bucks. I got lucky and went home and she was all over me. I said, over, baby, I've been to France. I've been to Jetpan. I said, you missed the boat at the end of the bench. But you know she inspired me to write it. But but that was it.

Well, Billy, this has been a blast, man. It's been so great and great for you to do this. And you know you're such a great, great friend.

Throw from me to talk to you guys, to of my most incredible friends. And and the history we all have, I mean, Stip and I are. You know, we're just getting rolling, but we got some good stories already. We've only you know, we've been doing this for about five years now. And all you might you were, you just weren't in Vegas.

They didn't make it to my brisk I'll give you an Edie Fisher story too. I missed that, poor Eddie. That's a whole other Sinnatra used to say, we're going to see Eddie and we'd go because he had bad time. He had a great voice, but he couldn't keep in time. You know, Frank loves to go over and the band leader was going crazy because it'd be every time Ray fucking the band would be wiped out. You just hear drums and Frank listen and that coolie can't keep the meter. He still loved to go, so poor Eddie. It was that crazy time back.

Then, you know, when when they found that unearthed that that Rap Pack concert from sixty three. I think it was Saint Louis and you know, and Bob Daily knew what a nut I was for the Rap Pack because of growing up in Vegas and my father and all that stuff. So call he said, I got you something, Come on down. He hands me like two three three quarter inch videotapes. This is like an eighty something, eighty eight or and and I look and I'm like, oh my god, I just read about it, you know, because it just come out, and I think A and E or somebody were gonna show it. And I go home and I'm watching this thing. You know, it's like watching something biblical for me, you know, because I was so young, I didn't really know what was going on, you know, rap back, and I started watching this thing. It's extraordinary. You know, Sammy comes out. I mean you saw the show a million times and Sammy comes out and You're like, there's no one more talented than this guy. He's playing everything, singing everything, he's doing impressions. He's like, he's just the most insanely talented guy. And this big anyway, and then Dean comes out and you're like, can you make a more beautiful human being? You know, like the hair and the drink say, And he's doing you know more, and he's singing these songs and you're like, oh my god, this is mon is unbelievable. You know, this guy's unblievable. And then the chairman comes out and you go oh, and he starts doing his thing and he's looking at Quincy, who's conducting the count base the orchestra, and he does this set and you're like, I mean, I hadn't seen Frank Sinatra in nineteen sixty three when he's forty or whatever doing this, you know, and you're like, wow, I mean that's showmanship that you know, very few people, you know, you've managed to get to that point in your career, but like, not that many people do it, not that many people saw it. And so I see Quincy and I didn't even know Quincy's that old to have been there. And I call Quincy at home and I give him my little take on what I just saw like that. I'm just telling you guys, And I go, am, I Am I close? He goes, Oh, yeah, yeah, you're close. He goes, But Sinatra, Man, you can't imagine. He starts going on about Sinatra and you know, the being on the road with him and the fun and the stories and the laughs, and you know, I'd love to hear one stary look the only thing that but you know, Taylor, Taylor Swift. I'm so happy for kids today that they at least have somebody that they can be that gaga about, you know what I mean. It's like and she's got her version. You know, she goes into these towns, she helps everybody, you know, her crew to all make a lot of money. I mean, she's extraordinary and the way she inducts herself in her career. But like when, you know, when Barbie and Taylor Swift are all happening in the same time, and I was like, thank goodness. You know, these kids have something to really believe in and emulate and see these great you know, examples of humanity and humility and generosity and all that stuff. And you know, it's been a long time, but you know, the way these guys walk the earth, you know, Sinatra and everybody and Snatchra was the same way, you know, I mean he took care of everybody people. You know, people were fiercely loyal.

Millions, minions. I mean, I could go on or on. You know a story about Dean which I heard early on, which kind of funny because a lot of people didn't know it. But he was everything you said. I mean, he had to it right. But you know he had his nose done because he used to be a dealer in Ohio. He was a boxer and whatever happened the nose didn't work for him for a while. Do you know who gave him the money to fix his nose? Lu Costello? Perfect lu Costello gave him twenty five thousand, like before he was Dean Martin to fix the nose.

Cochett But I think, I think, well, I've been trying to make that movie for years, the Nick Tasha's book, and almost made it. Was Scorsese directing on My Way out of Warner Brothers, and that's why it never happened.

Well, Marty wants to do he's a there's a Sinatra story, as you know, yes, but it's Sieva Gardner because I was talking to Ari about it. They wanted me to be a consultant on it. But the Dean thing. Just to finish the story, Lou gives him the money when he was nobody, twenty five grand, and then he sees them years a later at the place on Sunset where they all played Cyril Cyril's Zero, and it's Jerry and Dean and he runs into him after the show and he said to Dean, you're still only twenty five thousand dollars.

By the way, I think that's the punchline. I think that's why they had to do the Saint Leuiski, because it was a makeup gig, because they oh.

Oh oh, I made those I was in with them there Chicago. I went on listen when you hung with Sinatra and he says, we're going out, go home and get your passport, because you never know where you're gonna wind up. I started out with him in Philly one night and I thought I was going to New York. I didn't get home for five days. I wound up on a boat with him going up to Connecticut. He I mean, listen, I would have given the money back. The shit that I learned and the things. And I'm this kid only because I'm making money for the guys. And you know, I'm busting my ass. Did they embrace me and take me in? But the stuff you just can't, you don't, you can't learn it. You know, it's you hang with those guys now.

You know, when I was very little, I for some reason, I have vivid memory and my dad throwing me in the car in Vegas and taking me down to the strip and there was a it was the remains of a of a big fire, you know, and and it turned out that the l Rancho had burnt to the ground, you know, Belding Cattleman's Hotel. And years later I was saying to my dad, you know, yeah, I remember when you took because actually, you know, my dad of course ended up with a slot machine somehow out of this excursion in the house. And I said to him, I remember when he took me down. And he goes, yeah, you know what happened. He goes, they called the that when you know, the thing was burning, They called the fire chief and they said, chief, you got to get down here. The l Ranchos burning to the ground. And the fire chief said, really, I thought.

That was exactly they said to Ghettle on the day before. We're sorry to hear you about the hotel. They were burning stuff left and right all the time. God, hey, Billy, I gotta tell you, We've had some great, great moments with a lot of great friends. But I got to tell you this has been so special, man, really is. I mean, we could go on and on, but I'm so proud of you because you know, we go way back and obviously, but I gotta really thank you for giving us your time. We've I've had a wonderful, wonderful time with you today and I gotta thank you.

I'm so look, it's going on my resume. You guys even ask me on the show. You know it's jay Ceris to start booking me out there.

You know what I mean, you're the greatest, Billy. I don't want to talk to you again for at least.

An hour, So he always says to me, how do you squeeze? How do you squeeze us? Both?

Then, I hope there's a lot of young people listening and watching you guys, because there's a lot to learn and not that many places you can learn it anymore.

Thanks love, Love, You Guys.

Our Away with Paul Anka and Skip Bronson is a production of iHeartRadio.

The show's executive producer is Jordan Runtog, with supervising producer and editor Marcy Depina.

It was engineered by Todd Carlin and Graham Gibson, mixed and mastered by the wonderful Mary Do.

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Our Way with Paul Anka and Skip Bronson

Music icon Paul Anka and business visionary Skip Bronson are dear friends, and together they boast t 
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