Kilda and welcome to On the Tiles, the Herald's politics podcast. This is a local edition episode and I'm your host, Georgena Campbell. Today we're discussing maldi warts. Councils have overwhelmingly voted to keep them, but we'll first have to ask the public what they think via a referendum. There's concern these polls will put more costs on councils that they simply can't afford, and will the referendums mean some maldi wards are no more. Later I'll be talking to Far North mayor more called Tipene about why his community supports having a maldi wart. But first news TALKSIB Wellington reporter Azaria Howe joins us to discuss the political background to this law change and exactly how much these referendums are going to cost Kyelder Azariah, thanks so much for joining us on the pod.

Kilda and welcome to On the Tiles, the Herald's politics podcast. This is a local edition episode and I'm your host, Georgena Campbell. Today we're discussing maldi warts. Councils have overwhelmingly voted to keep them, but we'll first have to ask the public what they think via a referendum. There's concern these polls will put more costs on councils that they simply can't afford, and will the referendums mean some maldi wards are no more. Later I'll be talking to Far North mayor more called Tipene about why his community supports having a maldi wart. But first news TALKSIB Wellington reporter Azaria Howe joins us to discuss the political background to this law change and exactly how much these referendums are going to cost Kyelder Azariah, thanks so much for joining us on the pod.

Yoda, no worries.

Yoda, no worries.

Can we start with the basics. What is a Maori ward?

Can we start with the basics. What is a Maori ward?

Yeah? So, a Maori ward is a constituency in which people on the Malori role can vote for a Maori representative. Now they are separate to the council wards, but there is one Malori ward for example for Wellington City and that representative will be from a Maori background. It is making sure that there is a Maori seat at the decision making table for councils. Obviously, Maori people can run in non Maori ward seats and can run for mayor as well.

Yeah? So, a Maori ward is a constituency in which people on the Malori role can vote for a Maori representative. Now they are separate to the council wards, but there is one Malori ward for example for Wellington City and that representative will be from a Maori background. It is making sure that there is a Maori seat at the decision making table for councils. Obviously, Maori people can run in non Maori ward seats and can run for mayor as well.

And of course they have full voting rights just like any other ward councilor different to Manifenuo representation for example at Wellington City Council, where they have voting rights at a commision level but not a full council level.

And of course they have full voting rights just like any other ward councilor different to Manifenuo representation for example at Wellington City Council, where they have voting rights at a commision level but not a full council level.

Yeah, that's correct.

Yeah, that's correct.

Can we go back to the law change around this in twenty twenty one that sort of paved the way for all of the Maori wards that we've seen be created in recent times.

Can we go back to the law change around this in twenty twenty one that sort of paved the way for all of the Maori wards that we've seen be created in recent times.

Yeah. So the twenty twenty one law change removed the council's requirement to hold polls on whether or not Maori wards should be introduced. So prior to that it was you would have to poll people in your constituencies as to whether or not it should be put in place. And as a result of removing that requirement, a number of councils agreed to put Maori wards in place for the twenty twenty two local elections, which are the most recent ones. If we take for example, Wellington City Council, it's had a Maori ward in place for that twenty twenty two local election. It was the first one that was in place for Wellington City. And yeah, that was put in place and voted by the council rather than as a referendum.

Yeah. So the twenty twenty one law change removed the council's requirement to hold polls on whether or not Maori wards should be introduced. So prior to that it was you would have to poll people in your constituencies as to whether or not it should be put in place. And as a result of removing that requirement, a number of councils agreed to put Maori wards in place for the twenty twenty two local elections, which are the most recent ones. If we take for example, Wellington City Council, it's had a Maori ward in place for that twenty twenty two local election. It was the first one that was in place for Wellington City. And yeah, that was put in place and voted by the council rather than as a referendum.

What is the current government's new policy on this?

What is the current government's new policy on this?

Councils that have Maori wards in place, So for example Wellington, if we're just running with that, they have had to recently vote whether or not to disestablish their multi ward completely or vote to retain it and go to a poll. Of the forty five councils that that applies to, including as we say, Wellington City, forty three of the forty five have voted to keep their multi wards and go to that poll. So giving those voters a say at the twenty twenty five local elections.

Councils that have Maori wards in place, So for example Wellington, if we're just running with that, they have had to recently vote whether or not to disestablish their multi ward completely or vote to retain it and go to a poll. Of the forty five councils that that applies to, including as we say, Wellington City, forty three of the forty five have voted to keep their multi wards and go to that poll. So giving those voters a say at the twenty twenty five local elections.

How are they feeling about that, about going to a referendum and having to do that.

How are they feeling about that, about going to a referendum and having to do that.

Yeah, it's quite an interesting discussion. I was watching pottyto a City council relatively recently a couple of weeks ago, when they were discussing their options whether or not to keep their multi ward, and I think one of the main sentiments was this idea that a referendum would perhaps be a good idea for democracy, but that maybe the government should be the ones fronting up for those costs. There's this idea that the government is the one that is putting this cost onto councils and onto local government and requiring this of them, so maybe they should be the ones picking up the cost. Seemed like quite a few people at Potidoa City Council had that view, and I feel like a lot of the debate was whether or not the government should be the ones paying for this, rather than is it the right thing to do? But there is this sentiment as well that this is essentially not just a waste of money, but seemingly a waste of time. Some representatives calling the idea of a referendum racist, slamming that idea of removing the requirement for Maori to be represented on at council table if they have a Maori ward.

Yeah, it's quite an interesting discussion. I was watching pottyto a City council relatively recently a couple of weeks ago, when they were discussing their options whether or not to keep their multi ward, and I think one of the main sentiments was this idea that a referendum would perhaps be a good idea for democracy, but that maybe the government should be the ones fronting up for those costs. There's this idea that the government is the one that is putting this cost onto councils and onto local government and requiring this of them, so maybe they should be the ones picking up the cost. Seemed like quite a few people at Potidoa City Council had that view, and I feel like a lot of the debate was whether or not the government should be the ones paying for this, rather than is it the right thing to do? But there is this sentiment as well that this is essentially not just a waste of money, but seemingly a waste of time. Some representatives calling the idea of a referendum racist, slamming that idea of removing the requirement for Maori to be represented on at council table if they have a Maori ward.

Obviously there's a reason why Labor took away that requirement to have a referendum. The experience of a lot of councils was that it was too hard and they couldn't get you know, a Maori ward pasted that referendum, So it'd be interesting to see while there is support around many council tables for keeping the Maori wards, when it comes to the public having to say, will they feel the same way and will we see a lot of these wards that have been created disappear. Again, let's dig into the cost because obviously, as you say, Poiro City Council for example, is quite concerned about that. What is the cost of having these referendums at a time where councils are under a lot of cost pressure.

Obviously there's a reason why Labor took away that requirement to have a referendum. The experience of a lot of councils was that it was too hard and they couldn't get you know, a Maori ward pasted that referendum, So it'd be interesting to see while there is support around many council tables for keeping the Maori wards, when it comes to the public having to say, will they feel the same way and will we see a lot of these wards that have been created disappear. Again, let's dig into the cost because obviously, as you say, Poiro City Council for example, is quite concerned about that. What is the cost of having these referendums at a time where councils are under a lot of cost pressure.

So the cost seem to vary relatively significantly, I suppose in terms of different councils. For example, Auckland Council, which is not actually doing a poll because it didn't have a multi ward. It didn't need to vote to disestablish one or to go to a poll because it didn't have one. But their cost, for example, goes from either one hundred and fifty five thousand dollars to as much as three point five million. Now, I guess it's worth noticing that last number of three point five million would be if the polls were not at the twenty twenty five local elections. So if they were just held as sort of a standalone poll, I guess similar to that of a by election, where it would just be at a relatively random time, or it wouldn't be at election day. That would come with even more cost delivering new voting papers to people making sure that these polls are correct. There's a bit of concern as well. In this Official Information Act that I got from New Zealand Post, they're saying that the twenty twenty five local elections are anticipated to be more challenging than prior elections. It's also saying that having these Maldi ward polls will add more complexity. It'll be more difficult for creating those voting packs. Government departments have also weighed in and have said there's some concerns in terms of engagement with EWE, with Manofenowa, with Mali. There's also the idea of how this policy has actually taken into account Treaty of White Toungey Principles that was raised by the Ministry of Maldi Development, Tepuni Coucidy. But sime and Brown, the Local Government Minister, is saying, and I quote here, we're simply returning the law to what Helen Clark put in place back in two thousand and one. So I think that's an interesting, I guess way to word it as well politically in terms of linking it back to the Helen Clark eraror especially.

So the cost seem to vary relatively significantly, I suppose in terms of different councils. For example, Auckland Council, which is not actually doing a poll because it didn't have a multi ward. It didn't need to vote to disestablish one or to go to a poll because it didn't have one. But their cost, for example, goes from either one hundred and fifty five thousand dollars to as much as three point five million. Now, I guess it's worth noticing that last number of three point five million would be if the polls were not at the twenty twenty five local elections. So if they were just held as sort of a standalone poll, I guess similar to that of a by election, where it would just be at a relatively random time, or it wouldn't be at election day. That would come with even more cost delivering new voting papers to people making sure that these polls are correct. There's a bit of concern as well. In this Official Information Act that I got from New Zealand Post, they're saying that the twenty twenty five local elections are anticipated to be more challenging than prior elections. It's also saying that having these Maldi ward polls will add more complexity. It'll be more difficult for creating those voting packs. Government departments have also weighed in and have said there's some concerns in terms of engagement with EWE, with Manofenowa, with Mali. There's also the idea of how this policy has actually taken into account Treaty of White Toungey Principles that was raised by the Ministry of Maldi Development, Tepuni Coucidy. But sime and Brown, the Local Government Minister, is saying, and I quote here, we're simply returning the law to what Helen Clark put in place back in two thousand and one. So I think that's an interesting, I guess way to word it as well politically in terms of linking it back to the Helen Clark eraror especially.

Yes and of course a labor prime minister. What else does Simeon Brown say in response to the criticism that you've just outlined.

Yes and of course a labor prime minister. What else does Simeon Brown say in response to the criticism that you've just outlined.

He's saying that councils should not be afraid to ask the public what they think. But the minister is saying essentially that this referendum is the ultimate form of localism. He's saying that that would be what he thinks the most democratic thing to do. Previously, he's also said the government was committed to quote restoring democracy. Also important to note that the changes to Maori wards do not mean that councils shouldn't consult with EWI and with Mana Fenowa. That's still a requirement that's still obviously very important for local government.

He's saying that councils should not be afraid to ask the public what they think. But the minister is saying essentially that this referendum is the ultimate form of localism. He's saying that that would be what he thinks the most democratic thing to do. Previously, he's also said the government was committed to quote restoring democracy. Also important to note that the changes to Maori wards do not mean that councils shouldn't consult with EWI and with Mana Fenowa. That's still a requirement that's still obviously very important for local government.

Thanks so much for joining as Azariah, It was a pleasure to.

Thanks so much for joining as Azariah, It was a pleasure to.

Have you on.

Have you on.

Thanks so much.

Thanks so much.

Welcome back to on the Tiles. Local addition, I caught up with Far North Mukor Tippin to talk about Malori wards and started by asking him to describe what the meeting was like last week when his counsel was considering whether to keep their communities Maori ward.

Welcome back to on the Tiles. Local addition, I caught up with Far North Mukor Tippin to talk about Malori wards and started by asking him to describe what the meeting was like last week when his counsel was considering whether to keep their communities Maori ward.

Oh, do do you know what I said at the table here in the previous term, just as a counselor pushing to and supporting our community members and Erie and Hapu and Faro who wanted Maori wards for the far North. And at that time, Man, it was so intensely it was there was so much anxiety in the room. There was a hope as well. This time around though, it was such a beautiful wide will I think in my post I said that it was. I actually couldn't put to words that capturing the essence of how beautiful our extraordinary meeting was, you know, despite the fact that you know, we didn't even want to have to have it in any case. But but no, the support, the why do were the energy that was in the room and the incredible deputations we received from EBE organizations, Hapu organizations and from Rangatahi themselves. It was fantastic. It was a beautiful meeting.

Oh, do do you know what I said at the table here in the previous term, just as a counselor pushing to and supporting our community members and Erie and Hapu and Faro who wanted Maori wards for the far North. And at that time, Man, it was so intensely it was there was so much anxiety in the room. There was a hope as well. This time around though, it was such a beautiful wide will I think in my post I said that it was. I actually couldn't put to words that capturing the essence of how beautiful our extraordinary meeting was, you know, despite the fact that you know, we didn't even want to have to have it in any case. But but no, the support, the why do were the energy that was in the room and the incredible deputations we received from EBE organizations, Hapu organizations and from Rangatahi themselves. It was fantastic. It was a beautiful meeting.

What did people at that meeting? What did they feel about the government's policy on this?

What did people at that meeting? What did they feel about the government's policy on this?

Oh? A lot of frustration. I mean, we had co Marta who were in the room who stood up and said, you know, just three years ago we were in here fighting for this. Why on earth are we back in here again to discuss this that hasn't been given any any fair consideration or longevity for us to even be questioning, you know, whether Maori wards are good or not for the final then, or good or not for this council meeting their treaty of waitany obligations under the Local Government Act. So there was incredible frustration, not directed at our council itself, but directed at the government for this legislation and the provisions that it that it's forcing upon us, say, to have to go to a binding poll over this, or the fact that we have only binding pole mechanisms for only a Maori ward but not for any of our other representation arrangements.

Oh? A lot of frustration. I mean, we had co Marta who were in the room who stood up and said, you know, just three years ago we were in here fighting for this. Why on earth are we back in here again to discuss this that hasn't been given any any fair consideration or longevity for us to even be questioning, you know, whether Maori wards are good or not for the final then, or good or not for this council meeting their treaty of waitany obligations under the Local Government Act. So there was incredible frustration, not directed at our council itself, but directed at the government for this legislation and the provisions that it that it's forcing upon us, say, to have to go to a binding poll over this, or the fact that we have only binding pole mechanisms for only a Maori ward but not for any of our other representation arrangements.

Are you worried that having to go back to that referendum, that some Maldi wards across the country will disappear because of that?

Are you worried that having to go back to that referendum, that some Maldi wards across the country will disappear because of that?

Oh? Yeah, of course. I mean, I'm I describe myself as being naively optimistic about life in the world and everything like that, but I'm also realistic. I think that We're going to see a very strong and well funded no campaign, national no campaign come through to this. We've seen the groups the likes of Hobson's Pledge and stuff like that, who have big money, Like I mean, they managed to pay for you know, full cover in the New Zealand here just the other week and all that pushback that that came out from there over the you know, the Mecca legislation and things like that. So we know there's going to be a huge campaign there. What I am incredibly hopeful for though is these grassroots campaigns and like a national strategic grass roots that's a little bit of a noxymoron, but you know, we are going to see some incredible strategy coming through it for what a Yes campaign looks like to try and keep it. I'm incredibly hopeful for the Far North. When the final district council before I was even sitting at the table, has already how a binding poll. It failed at that I think it was something like sixty five thirty five percent maybe, so the council didn't establish a MALI board then. And our last term when we first considered maoriwards, we had huge support, Like I mean, we did a survey right informal informal survey, but we got like five hundred responses eighty five percent in support. And now people might say that, you know, that's not very scientific or anything like that, or that's not a large enough data capture across the whole final then or you know, seventy five thousand people, thirty five thousand electors that call this place home. But at our last long term plan period, we only received eight hundred submissions on how this council was going to determine how it spent it's one hundred and seventy two million dollar budget every year, and we made decisions based off only nine hundred submissions. Now, that survey we did in the previous term is a good indication. I think the support that we've seen throughout this new legislation being introduced and then finally our vote just last week on the matter, it gives me a lot of encouragement that people in the finals, Tanga ta Mali, Tangata Tangata Paka, everyone in between seeing the benefits of what having this representation mechanism means for us at this council.

Oh? Yeah, of course. I mean, I'm I describe myself as being naively optimistic about life in the world and everything like that, but I'm also realistic. I think that We're going to see a very strong and well funded no campaign, national no campaign come through to this. We've seen the groups the likes of Hobson's Pledge and stuff like that, who have big money, Like I mean, they managed to pay for you know, full cover in the New Zealand here just the other week and all that pushback that that came out from there over the you know, the Mecca legislation and things like that. So we know there's going to be a huge campaign there. What I am incredibly hopeful for though is these grassroots campaigns and like a national strategic grass roots that's a little bit of a noxymoron, but you know, we are going to see some incredible strategy coming through it for what a Yes campaign looks like to try and keep it. I'm incredibly hopeful for the Far North. When the final district council before I was even sitting at the table, has already how a binding poll. It failed at that I think it was something like sixty five thirty five percent maybe, so the council didn't establish a MALI board then. And our last term when we first considered maoriwards, we had huge support, Like I mean, we did a survey right informal informal survey, but we got like five hundred responses eighty five percent in support. And now people might say that, you know, that's not very scientific or anything like that, or that's not a large enough data capture across the whole final then or you know, seventy five thousand people, thirty five thousand electors that call this place home. But at our last long term plan period, we only received eight hundred submissions on how this council was going to determine how it spent it's one hundred and seventy two million dollar budget every year, and we made decisions based off only nine hundred submissions. Now, that survey we did in the previous term is a good indication. I think the support that we've seen throughout this new legislation being introduced and then finally our vote just last week on the matter, it gives me a lot of encouragement that people in the finals, Tanga ta Mali, Tangata Tangata Paka, everyone in between seeing the benefits of what having this representation mechanism means for us at this council.

And what what are those benefits?

And what what are those benefits?

Oh? I mean, we well, because I said at this table previously, right just as a counselor, and now this time around is mere, but with Maori World Councilors at the table as well. Just the way that we've been able to engage and connect with our communities and members of our community who otherwise would never have probably had any interest in knowing what the Head Council's doing or wanting to take part in our processes and our decisions and things like that. It's been absolutely phenomenal. The Finals is a huge district. It's the third largest territorial authority in the North Islands, seven thousand square kilometers, seventy five thousand people spread over forty different settlements and we're like five hours long in two hours wife, so we have a lot of incredibly remote rural community settlements that are majority Maldi. I'm from the North Hook younger on my mom's side, so we've got some quite a number of smaller settlements over there, the likes of Mttimiti, Pungudu Mutuiti powerting that we are you know, directly engaging with community leaders now through our Maori World Councilors. So it's been absolutely fantastic to have those connectivity abilities through our Maori World councilors sitting at this table, but also the wealth of experience and knowledge and differing views that they bring to the table as well.

Oh? I mean, we well, because I said at this table previously, right just as a counselor, and now this time around is mere, but with Maori World Councilors at the table as well. Just the way that we've been able to engage and connect with our communities and members of our community who otherwise would never have probably had any interest in knowing what the Head Council's doing or wanting to take part in our processes and our decisions and things like that. It's been absolutely phenomenal. The Finals is a huge district. It's the third largest territorial authority in the North Islands, seven thousand square kilometers, seventy five thousand people spread over forty different settlements and we're like five hours long in two hours wife, so we have a lot of incredibly remote rural community settlements that are majority Maldi. I'm from the North Hook younger on my mom's side, so we've got some quite a number of smaller settlements over there, the likes of Mttimiti, Pungudu Mutuiti powerting that we are you know, directly engaging with community leaders now through our Maori World Councilors. So it's been absolutely fantastic to have those connectivity abilities through our Maori World councilors sitting at this table, but also the wealth of experience and knowledge and differing views that they bring to the table as well.

And as you say, it's frustrating to be back here, what would happen if councils just don't hold poles? Or has your council given any consideration to actually saying no, we're not going to do a referendum.

And as you say, it's frustrating to be back here, what would happen if councils just don't hold poles? Or has your council given any consideration to actually saying no, we're not going to do a referendum.

Yeah, well, by a resolution we are. We are going to do a binding poll. That was a requirement of the legislation was that if you were going to vote to retain your Maori wards by default, you also had to go to a binding poll on their very existence at the same time. So we will be But what we did, alongside quite a number of councils who are affected by this legislation, a like forty five of us, as we've directed our chief executive here at the Final District Council to provide us with legal advice on the implications if we were to actually not hold not hold a pole, and that is going to go back to our Tekuaka Maori Partnership Standing Committee for us to consider.

Yeah, well, by a resolution we are. We are going to do a binding poll. That was a requirement of the legislation was that if you were going to vote to retain your Maori wards by default, you also had to go to a binding poll on their very existence at the same time. So we will be But what we did, alongside quite a number of councils who are affected by this legislation, a like forty five of us, as we've directed our chief executive here at the Final District Council to provide us with legal advice on the implications if we were to actually not hold not hold a pole, and that is going to go back to our Tekuaka Maori Partnership Standing Committee for us to consider.

Interesting, Okay, it would be fascinating to see what that advice is. Now, the cost of these referendums is another issue that has been raised. You know, there's some thinking that well, if the government is requiring local government to do these referendums, then central government is the one that should be paying for them. Are you worried about the cost of them at all?

Interesting, Okay, it would be fascinating to see what that advice is. Now, the cost of these referendums is another issue that has been raised. You know, there's some thinking that well, if the government is requiring local government to do these referendums, then central government is the one that should be paying for them. Are you worried about the cost of them at all?

Oh?

Oh?

Big time. I mean, we talk in local government about this thing called the unfunded mandate and this is just one example of a significant number of things that come to us through legislation through central government that we're not funded to be able to do. And it's extra work that we in local government have to do is directed by central government that we just have to find and find the cost for here in the Far North, for our binding poll. Our advice so far has been that it will cost an additional ten thousand dollars to what are normal elections campaign will look like for us here. That's ten thousand dollars that we are going to have to just absorb as a council now in the grand scheme of things across our one hundred and seventy two million dollar budget here in the final that's not big. But when I look at that across what is it forty two councils potentially forty three councils when toting a city make their decision. What that cost looks like for us as a sector, we're going to be upwards of five hundred thousand, so we're going to be almost, oh absolutely over half a million dollars is going to be spent by the local government sector on these binding polls that we have to cover the costs of ourselves. We're being forced to do this by central government through this new legislation, but central government is not funding it for us. Our own people are going to have to fund the So it is incredibly unfair. I take that on one hand, with what we're hearing on the other hand from central government is local government. We're being told you need to save money, you need to go back to basics, you need to worry about the roads, you need to worry about the wastewater pipes, the water pipes, the storm water pipes. No more nice toabs and all of that sort of thing. And I agree to some extent to that sort of thing. And us in the fin north Man, we've done a bloody brilliant job to have the lowest rates increase in the country only four point five percent this year without reducing our levels of service. But then when you get something like this saying you need to save money but also you need to spend money on this on a decision that we don't want on our binding pole that we don't want because hey, we made a decision to establish Maori boards for two years at our last representation review, alongside three general wards and thirteen community board subdivisions that cannot get polled that don't have this mechanism. So it's unfair. It's only singly targeting out our Maori ward. You put all of that in a package and look at it a little bit more holistically, and it's incredibly frustrating.

Big time. I mean, we talk in local government about this thing called the unfunded mandate and this is just one example of a significant number of things that come to us through legislation through central government that we're not funded to be able to do. And it's extra work that we in local government have to do is directed by central government that we just have to find and find the cost for here in the Far North, for our binding poll. Our advice so far has been that it will cost an additional ten thousand dollars to what are normal elections campaign will look like for us here. That's ten thousand dollars that we are going to have to just absorb as a council now in the grand scheme of things across our one hundred and seventy two million dollar budget here in the final that's not big. But when I look at that across what is it forty two councils potentially forty three councils when toting a city make their decision. What that cost looks like for us as a sector, we're going to be upwards of five hundred thousand, so we're going to be almost, oh absolutely over half a million dollars is going to be spent by the local government sector on these binding polls that we have to cover the costs of ourselves. We're being forced to do this by central government through this new legislation, but central government is not funding it for us. Our own people are going to have to fund the So it is incredibly unfair. I take that on one hand, with what we're hearing on the other hand from central government is local government. We're being told you need to save money, you need to go back to basics, you need to worry about the roads, you need to worry about the wastewater pipes, the water pipes, the storm water pipes. No more nice toabs and all of that sort of thing. And I agree to some extent to that sort of thing. And us in the fin north Man, we've done a bloody brilliant job to have the lowest rates increase in the country only four point five percent this year without reducing our levels of service. But then when you get something like this saying you need to save money but also you need to spend money on this on a decision that we don't want on our binding pole that we don't want because hey, we made a decision to establish Maori boards for two years at our last representation review, alongside three general wards and thirteen community board subdivisions that cannot get polled that don't have this mechanism. So it's unfair. It's only singly targeting out our Maori ward. You put all of that in a package and look at it a little bit more holistically, and it's incredibly frustrating.

And just finally, what would your message be to Local Government Minister Same and Brown over the Maori ward issue?

And just finally, what would your message be to Local Government Minister Same and Brown over the Maori ward issue?

Well, I mean, like you know, I'm not prescribing that Maori wards are a must and the be all end all, and I think that each community, each council area should get to decide over what that looks like for them. And I have all the respect for most of our South Island councils who have really great relationships with their Manifenuwa who do not want Maori wards, but for those of us that do, this is a mechanism that allows us to see through our obligations under the Local Government Act to uphold the principles of titidity or white toney and Maori wards are a way of us doing that. I understand that the Minister has campaigned on this and so I was wanting to see it through. But if that's the case, then pay for it. Don't put it on us to have to pay for this is something that you have to see through, then you pay for it. But also don't build into the negative rhetoric or narrative that comes with it. Let it be a fair game.

Well, I mean, like you know, I'm not prescribing that Maori wards are a must and the be all end all, and I think that each community, each council area should get to decide over what that looks like for them. And I have all the respect for most of our South Island councils who have really great relationships with their Manifenuwa who do not want Maori wards, but for those of us that do, this is a mechanism that allows us to see through our obligations under the Local Government Act to uphold the principles of titidity or white toney and Maori wards are a way of us doing that. I understand that the Minister has campaigned on this and so I was wanting to see it through. But if that's the case, then pay for it. Don't put it on us to have to pay for this is something that you have to see through, then you pay for it. But also don't build into the negative rhetoric or narrative that comes with it. Let it be a fair game.

Hey, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate the chat.

Hey, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate the chat.

Hey youder Hey, Thanks to Gina.

Hey youder Hey, Thanks to Gina.

Thanks for listening to this episode of On the Tiles Local Edition. You can follow On the Tiles on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and for more local politics head to INNSIDHERLD dot co, dot NZED or pick up your local paper. Thanks to my producer Ethan Sills. This episode was edited by zied Me sound engineers. I'm Georgina Campbell and on the tiles will be back next week.

Thanks for listening to this episode of On the Tiles Local Edition. You can follow On the Tiles on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and for more local politics head to INNSIDHERLD dot co, dot NZED or pick up your local paper. Thanks to my producer Ethan Sills. This episode was edited by zied Me sound engineers. I'm Georgina Campbell and on the tiles will be back next week.