James Shaw is best known to many as the Climate Change Minister and the co-leader of the Green Party - but he can't use that title at the moment, after a vote from Green Party delegates saw the position opened up. While Shaw is the only candidate going for the position, it has surprised many outside of the Greens.

In his first long-form interview about the challenge, James Shaw joins Thomas to discuss what happened and how he felt about it, what he's taken away from the vote, the tricky balance the Greens face being part of Government, and shares his thoughts on the circumstances that saw his former co-leader Metiria Turei leave politics.