You can order my new book 8 RULES OF LOVE at 8rulesoflove.com or at a retail store near you. You can also get the chance to see me live on my first ever world tour. This is a 90 minute interactive show where I will take you on a journey of finding, keeping and even letting go of love. Head to jayshettytour.com and find out if I'll be in a city near you. Thank you so much for all your support - I hope to see you soon.
Today, I am talking to a good friend and celebrity, Selena Gomez. Selena is a globally and culturally celebrated artist, actor, producer, entrepreneur, and philanthropist of her generation. As a recording artist, Selena has sold more than 210 million singles worldwide and has over 45 billion global streams. Her upcoming biographical documentary, Selena Gomez: My Mind & Me, is out right now. In 2019, she launched her beauty line, Rare Beauty, exclusively with Sephora. As part of the partnership, Selena announced the Rare Impact Fund pledging to raise $100M for mental health services for individuals in underserved communities. Philanthropy and activism have been key pillars of her career and she's used her platform to advocate for many important causes. Selena has raised millions of dollars for charity including Global Citizen and Lupus Research Alliance.
Selena bravely tells her story about her long battle with mental health and how this led to her life mission to help spread mental health awareness around the world and provide mental health services for the less privileged. I get to deeply understand her inner thoughts on topics such as dealing with pressure of being a celebrity and the gossip that comes with it, finding self healing, embracing change, being one with your inner self, and living day by day being content, kind, and full of love to share.
Life isn’t a simple journey, but despite the complications, challenges, and struggles, we can always find it in our hearts to tap into our inner good and be compassionate, especially to ourselves.
What We Discuss:
Episode Resources
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There's blessing in the breaking, even if it's just road rage as simple as that to maybe losing someone that you love. There is no perfect way to heal.
Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, to number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come here every week to become happier, healthier, and more healed. And you know that. I love sitting down with guests who allow us into their lives, who allow us into their journeys to understand more, to help us not feel alone, to help us feel connected in our pain and in our purpose, and to recognize that we have so much more in common and that when we work together we can truly find the light in our lives. Now, today's guest is someone who I believe does this with every step, every word, and everything she takes on in her life. I've had the fortune of getting to know her over the last few years, and I can honestly say that not only is she one of the most genuine and kind hearted people I know, she's also just one of the most loving and soulful people who truly wants to change lives. I have to start the episode by saying this, I believe today's guest is someone who's extremely on purpose. I'm speaking about the one and only Selena Gomez, one of the most globally and culturally celebrated artists, actors, producers, entrepreneurs, and most importantly, I know to her philanthropists of her generation. As a recording artist, Selena has sold more than two hundred and ten million singles worldwide and as over forty five billion global streams. Her upcoming biographical documentary, which I want you to go and see, Selena Gomez, My Mind and Me, is out right now. I got to see it earlier. I'll tell you all about it. And in twenty nineteen, Selila launched her beauty line, Rare Beauty, exclusively with Sephora. As part of the partnership, Gomez announce the Rare Impact Fund pledging to raise This is Outstanding pledging to raise one hundred million dollars for mental health services for individuals in underserved communities. Philanthropy and activism have been key pillars of Selena's career, and she's used her platform to advocate for many important causes. Selena has raised millions of dollars for charity, including Global Citizen and the Lupus Reatus Research Alliance. Please welcome to the show. Selena Gomez, Selena, it is so wonderful to be with you.
That was so nice. I felt very like emotional, and I felt so I felt so honored. Thank you for saying those kind words.
I meant every word. I think. Whenever I've sat with you, We've always had a conversation about purpose. Ye always had a conversation about service, always had a conversation that's reflective. But I wanted to start with this because we are going to talk about lots of deep and meaningful things today. Yes, but I also wanted to start with this because it's my first memory of meeting you. And you've you've probably forgotten this, but at least for me. Here we go, okay, so you'd come over for dinner. There's the first time we met, and I remember that we were about to eat. My wife had made dinner for us, and we say a prayer before we eat. But the prayer is chanted and sung somewhat in Sanskrit, which is a language that a lot of prayers are in for my practice, and I remember having to do it in front of you, and then after it's opening my eyes and go I just had to sing in front of.
Actually, do remember.
You were like, I don't know if I should sing in front of you, like please, I thought it was beautiful. I thought it was amazing. And also just to say the food was incredible. I remember that more than anything.
I love that well. I wanted to start off by just saying to you that I truly believe that this documentary is so special. Genuinely, it's powerful, it's inspiring, and it's the work that we so deeply need right now. And your voice in the conversation, the global conversation around well being and mental health is the most powerful voice there is. It really is. Thank you, and so when you put out a piece like this and you let us in, it only strengthens the conversation across the world. And that's something that you're doing. So I want to just start off by saying that from the bottom of my heart, I'm so grateful to you.
Thank you for saying that. I think that is a huge part of why I decided to release it after having an internal battle, I mean daily at one point maybe I shouldn't do this, Maybe I shouldn't release it, and this is too honest, This is too much of myself until I realized that ultimately it was meant for something bigger. It was just about me, it was about other people, and it took a life of its own and became what it is now, which I'm still nervous about. I'm still anxious about, but I think releasing it is a huge healing, a healing process for me, and it's me letting go of that version of myself.
Wow, that's so powerful to hear that. I mean, when I hear you say that that, I feel like you're one of these people that you serve in order to heal and you give in order to let go. And that's such a beautiful cycle because I think often we think when we're going through things that the more insular we go, right, But you're someone who opens up, yeah and says, here it is.
I think, you know, being in moments of my life, whether it was my health or personal life, friendships, relationships, I feel like giving myself completely to something is just the best way I can love. But I never wanted the pain that I endured to put some sort of guard on myself and armor, if you will, and I never I never let that happen because I still believe, and I still hope. I hope for love, and I hope for healing, and I hope for change, and I never want to lose that. Of course, there are days where I feel so far away, but I would rather continue to get my heart broken than to not feel at all.
That's the greatest sign of strength. I mean, that is such a powerful statement. And I think with a statement like that, you're encouraging so many people to feel heard. I mean, I think most of us feel far away from those things, right, and we're scared to admit that. I mean, you start the documentary with the promise of I'm going to share my darkest secrets. And when I heard that, I thought, wow. I was thinking, Selena, what was Why is that when we share our doc what happens when we share our darker secrets? Not just for you, but for any of us? When you're with your friends, when you're with your families, Like, what does that do?
I think at first it's frightening, but I feel like if you surround yourself with people who support you and love you, you have to be careful with who you share your story with. I think that can be dangerous sharing something that maybe was really hurtful. Or sharing a story about your internal struggles to someone who may not be giving you the right advice or guiding you another way that will only lead you to more pain is scary. So first and foremost, I would say making sure you surround yourself with great people, and then I would say, learn everything there is to learn once it's out. Once you say okay, I'm dealing with depression, then find out every single thing you can about what that means. And when you have a relationship with depression as opposed to allow it to keep sinking and inside of you, it's a little bit more freeing. I think. To understand yourself better, I want to know what triggers me. I want to know why I get depressed, and start asking yourself questions to open up yourself instead of you know, it's easier so than done, though, I should say, but instead of you know, keeping it in, I find that the biggest reward is letting it go.
Yeah. I think there's that statement in the documentary that says you said your mom would always say if you're afraid of something, learned more about it, and then your fear will go away or something. According to those.
She definitely did that. When I was younger, I lived in Texas and we were huge with the tornado scene. That was what was happening, and I was terrified. So I would bring like a cross, and I'd bring like a big pillow and I'd lay in my bathtub because that's what I googled is supposedly going to help. And my mom would just kind of smile at me. And she next day, remember, she got me a bunch of books and it was all about thunderstorms and different clouds and formations and all this stuff, and she just told me, She's like, it's not that scary, you know, it's especially when you know that it's just a part of the world. And I guess they are still scary, but now I understand what happens.
And yeah, but I love how you're applying that to depression, You're applying that to different things in your life.
I completely agree with. I mean, my favorite thing that I say in the documentary is that I have bipolar. I just I learn how to live with it and I just have made it my friend, because that's truly what it can be to me.
Now, Yeah, and tell us about that process of when you first discover something like that. Like you said, it's easier so than done. The voices are so loud, there's so much inner judgment, you know, are inner critic is so painful to live with. And now when you're saying, I'm trying to welcome making it a friend, which is a beautiful transition, tell us a bit about that journey of in a critic to in a friend. Well.
To be honest, I've been to for treatment centers and I have a lot of opinions on you know, rehabs if you will, or in places to go. There's a lot that I don't agree with. But what I will say is throughout all of it learning lessons through dialectical behavior therapy or cognitive behavioral therapy, there's something that's always been embedded in me throughout all of those different moments in my life, and that was always to recognize when something was happening to me accepting it. And I think once I realized that this was something that wasn't going to go away, This wasn't something that was going to be fixed by going to these places, it was more so, what can I know about myself? Okay? If I kind of go down this road, I'm going to get triggered, and I know that feeling and I know how to avoid it. However, I go to therapy. I also have you know, medication that I fully am on that I believe in fullheartedly, and it helps me stay balanced. But I still have to deal with it, you know. I still have days that are pretty low and moments that I'm just too over the top and I'm like, I want to buy everyone a house and I want to save the world. But I just have learned to kind of understand it. And the best part about that is also my family and friends learning how to live with it too. They can be great friends to me in that way, and that took a lot of time as well.
Yeah, No, these are such you know, I know that you do so much work in this space, but today when I'm hearing you share all these insights and they genuinely are insights, they're so powerful because even you just saying like I had to realize that I don't have to fix it, or that it's not going to go away, Like these things make difficult things livable with right, And when we look at the seasons or we look at the weather, it's like, you know, it's going to rain one day, and you know it's going to be dark one day, and you know it's going to be sunny another day. And when you know that, you stop trying to fight it and change it. Yeah, you can accept it, which it sounds from what I'm hearing from you.
Yeah, I mean it's taken me a long time. It's that's not six years, that's probably ten years in reality. But really it's really been interesting, and I feel better and I feel great now that I can talk about it.
Yeah. Yeah, the thing you keep mentioning today is letting go. And I think all of us are trying to know how to let go of old selves, old parts of ourselves, or parts that don't serve us anymore. And I remember when I lived as a monk, some of the areas that we'd live in there were often we'd come across a lot of snake skin, and we'd always use snakes as an analogy of how we leave behind. So snakes don't break out, they don't rip their skin off, they slither out, and their skin just kinds of like falls away, and then we would naturally not find snakes, thankfully, and find the skin. But that analogy always like, really resonated with me. The idea that when we're shedding, when we're letting go, it's not an aggressive process. How did you learn to become compassionate and calmer with yourself because at first we can really feel like we're trying to break something off.
Yeah, I think I tend to blame myself when I can't let something go. I feel maybe something is my fault, or I should have done more of this or less of that, and it starts to become, you know, just like a really I kind of turned sad. One thing I've noticed when I watched the documentary back for the first time, I didn't even recognize that girl anymore. And it broke my heart because I was talking about my body and my image and I just hate that I ever felt those feelings. And I think because I have a younger sister, there's been this huge responsibility given to me in a way that has helped me. And I say this about my fans as well, or people that have grown with me. I've almost had to get back up every time, more so for them than myself. And that's something I've learned to really understand. It's healthy to want to be strong for other people, but I needed to recognize I needed to be strong for myself. And that took a while, and it took things like making myself uncomfortable and changing my my thought process, changing the things I watch on TV, changing the music I'm listening to, little things that I can adjust that will perhaps change my mood or make me feel better instead of worse.
You know, it is some of these small things, isn't it.
Yeah?
Oh my gosh, I love scary movies, but I can't watch them all the time. I'm like happy, and I'm like, guys, let's watch a scary movie everyone, So why why on earth do you want to do that right now? And you're kind of like, yeah, you're right.
Do they manage to persuade you?
Yeah, most of the time. But it was Halloween, so I got by way for a few weeks.
You did what did you end up? What? Oh?
We watched Halloween. We watched Freddy Krueger Nightmare on Elm Street.
Which one ruins your mood the worst? Like?
Which one makes oh my goodness, probably like hereditary, something really dark? But it was it was fun. It was Halloween. We were just celebrating.
Yeah. I always call it Cliffhanger chemicals. Oh yeah. I feel like when we watch things that put us in the states of anxiety, yeah, or stress, we release all these Cliffhanger chemeras and now you're like, well, why can't I sleep? Yeah?
Exactly, why am I having.
Rather these like that? So my wife's like that, h she can't. I have to. She always gets really excited to watch things like that. Yeah, I'm like, Raley, we can't do this because you would not let me sleep for the rest of the night. So funny. Yeah, but I think it's really beautiful to hear you said there's these little changes, because I think that's what people feel hardest to change. And I think when I watched the documentary, the greatest challenge you really empathize with is having to do this when every time you're in a car, and then every time you get out the car, there's cameras, there's people, there's opinions, there's you know, that's something very few people can relate to. But I think what's so brilliant about how the documentary's made is that you really feel like we're living that with you. Yeah, and so you're like, wow, even though I can't relate to what Selina is going through. I can understand how it must be really challenging and really stressful. And so what's it like having to deal with all of this that all of us are dealing with too, but you're dealing with it with an added layer of you know, exposure.
Yeah. To be honest, I don't know any different. Yeah, that's what's really scary. Sometimes I think that's really sad, and other times I just think, well, this is what I've been given, and this is the path that I want to continue to walk in. And I know any moment I can, you know, quit and walk away. And you know, that's just not really how I was raised to be. So maybe if it had happened to me later in life, I would have had a different outcome. But because I was raised in and I really had to learn learn the hard way and how to deal with it, on how to not give if you will, that click bait that people want. And I mean I think I do. I do my best to try and eliminate these negative stories or this or other people illustrating my journey. It just I interrupt them with my truth. And that's what I will always continue to do. And that's what this documentary does as well. It's going to be me taking control of my story and no one can change that or say any different.
I actually, I'm so glad you addressed that because I've always found that with you, that you always lead with love, even in those areas, and I always am so in admiration of that and in awe of that because I see that whenever there's a narrative, that, whenever there's any narrative, your choice will always be the lead with love and inject love into that and to recaliber. When did you find the strength to start taking control of that narrative, because I think that's an amazing skill that today people need it more than ever. But yeah, when did you start developing the confidence around that needing to do that?
I would probably say I started beginning to gain that confidence when I went through a breakup, and that's something that was super public, But all of those things that I had felt so bad about myself and just so terrible every day, I wanted to debunk those feelings. I wanted to take control over that narrative because I did feel that way. But the greatest gift I got from all of that was me actually being honest with people, sharing my story and gaining the confidence to know I am enough and I actually work really hard at being a good person, and I know I'm a great person, and when people paint these unnecessary stories, it actually gives me pleasure to just combat it with love, like you said, or kindness.
You know.
I think it's it's actually fun for me because it's it is who I am. I don't I can't waste my time if I'm to be honest with everyone in this room, I don't want to waste my time being upset or taking in all of the negative things that I hear online. And I don't even hear it. It's it's just what it gets really bad other people tell me. And then I see in humane things happening and people talking negatively about other women, and it just drives me absolutely crazy. And I think I'll just always be that kind of person. And I would say I'm grateful for my past because it's made me a lot stronger.
Yeah. Well, I want I want you to know that, you know, we we see you for that like it is it is. Whenever you do that, I am completely mind blown because it requires so much self assurance. It requires so much commitment to your truth and then also for for everyone else. So thank you so much for leading the way even in that like other thing like no, it's so hard to do, it's so easy to it's so easy to be defensive. And you've found because it's your truth, you've found a way of sharing your truth without making it defensive.
Of course, that's I mean, thank you. I don't know if I intentionally do it, but it works really well.
So I'm sticking to it. Yeah, stick to it, don't don't change it, Teach it exactly, teach it the new masterclass. Yeah. No, I genuinely mean that, genuinely that. Hey everyone, it's j Shatty and I'm throw to an ounce my podcast tour. For the first time ever, you can see my on Purpose podcast live and in person. Join me in a city near you for meaningful, insightful conversations with surprise guests. It could be a celebrity, top wellness expert, or a CEO or business leader. We'll dive into experiences designed to inspire growth, spark learning, and build real connections. I can't wait to see you there. Tickets are on cell now. Head to Jayshetty, dot me and get yours today. How many times a day do you have to switch tools and jump from document to document to keep up with your team. You deserve to collaborate in one single tool, So check out Coder, the doc that brings words, data, and teams together. Coda is endlessly customizable and connected with templates for anything and everything like product roadmaps, remote onboarding, OKR tracking, meeting notes, and more. CODA adapts to growing teams and changing strategies. It can help change how you view information depending on what you need to do with it, and perhaps most importantly, Coder seamlessly integrates with the tools you need. Everything in Coder is syncd. No more relying on copy and paste to keep Lynchpin projects up to date. Your team can operate on the same information and collaborate the way we all want to quickly and efficiently. Coda has been amazing for our remote teams. We have team members across the country and around the world, and the two hardest things to manage are communication and data. With Coder, we're able to keep everyone and everything on the same page, literally, and it's really helped us eliminate those never ending untitled documents that used to always get lost in the day to day shuffle. Your team deserves a tool that adapts to them, not the other way around. So try coder and right now you can get started having your team all working together on the same page for free. Head over to coda dot io forward slash on purpose that coeoda dot io to get started for free coder dot io forward slash on purpose. Are you hiring? What type of role are you hiring for? Maybe you need to hire someone to wear many hats, which can be challenging, or you might have a simple position to fill, but it's taking forever to find someone who's a great fit for your company. Whether you need to hire a civil engineer in New York, an attorney in Colorado, a pediatric nurse in Nebraska, or even a mascot in Missouri. Ziprocruter can help you find the qualified candidates fast and now you can try it for free at ziprecruiterre dot com forward slash on purpose. From accountant to zoologist and everything in between. Ziprecruiter's matching technology finds people with the right experience for your job and presents them to you, and then you can invite your top choices to apply. Ziprecruiure is so effective that four out of five employers who post on ziprecruiure get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it now for free at this exclusive web address ZipRecruiter dot com forward slash on purpose once again that ziprecruter dot com forward slash O n P U r p O s E, ziprecruiure the smartest way to hire. One of the things that comes through in the documentary is we're just getting full access, Like that's what it feels, right like full access at all times, and we get to see all of your relationships, and you get to see the relationships that are long term, you get newer relationships, you get all these different people who are interacting with you, and they're interacting with you in every element, Like we get to see you straight after an interview, straight before an interview, and I could tell there was a time when you feel a bit of angst because you get asked poor questions or like you know, and I could see that in you, and that really hit me because the reason we set up this conversation, this podcast in the first place was I was hoping that it would be a place where people like yourself could share your true purpose and seeing you share on screen just how hard it can be to deal with, just does it minimize the work you're trying to do. What happens? Tell me what happens when you're asked?
I actually just feel it like insulted. Sometimes I sit in what I work. I mean, I work so hard. I love what I do. I love my job. I love talking about my job. There's different facets of my job that I love talking about for different reasons. And when I sit down and I have to do press from you know, starting at eight a m. Till you know, whenever the night ends, it's frustrating. You want to spend that time talking about meaningful, meaningful moments. And I just I wanted that to be in the documentary because I felt like, I know that a lot of artists, maybe not everyone, but I know a lot of artists and people in my position feel that way. And I hope that it will only you know, maybe shift that a bit and maybe stop asking people what word you associate with marshmallow, and maybe ask them how they're doing, you know, maybe just having a bit of an inspiration to do more and be better and Yeah, it actually is pretty crazy because that happens.
It's weird.
Yeah, it is really weird. Yeah, and it's interesting because I feel like there's such a trend that's been created about asking people clickbaity buzzy, you know, moment questions, and then you think, well, but this is a human totally with emotions and ideas and views, and I think often people think, oh, well, I've only got them for ten minutes, I better ask them all this stuff, but you forget that there's a whole person behind that. The documentarily humanizes you. What parts of you did? You really want people to understand better or see more that you think they haven't been able to see over time.
Just I guess where I was meant to be In the beginning, it really made me kind of sad. I wanted it to be a documentary that was really fun and about me doing this big tour, and instead I felt so bad because we were filming these really intense moments and then I had to stop filming. And I think I really ultimately wanted people to realize that I'm not really that put together. I can be, and I feel much better now, but I don't want people to ever look at me and think she has it all and she's figured it out and she is is, you know, perfect or whatever. I hope no one thinks that, But I just don't ever want to be that kind of public figure. I want to be someone that hopefully could be a friend, that could just disarm you from the celebrity esque part of it. I just want to be someone that people can genuinely walk up to it and say, hey, I kind of I understand what you walk through. I did too, and have a conversation with.
Yeah, why is that important? Why do you think it's important that. I guess for a long time your people did consider celebrity to be perfect, or maybe it was portrayed that way. Sometimes maybe it wasn't. But why do you think it's important for people to see that no one in the world, including me, anyone we're talking about, there's no one who's perfect. But why is that so important?
It's important to me because I felt like I had to be when I was you know, when I was going through relationships, I felt like I had to be a certain way. That's why in twenty sixteen, I was talking about my body and talking about my appearance and talking about how Oh, everyone's going to see me as this Disney kid. No one's going to take me seriously all of those moments. That's kind of where Yeah, that's where all the confusion came from for me.
Yeah, yeah, no, that does make sense. That's a really fascinating answer, because yeah, it's almost like you've had to live that way. Yeah, and then you're kind of unpacking it for everyone and breaking down that image that's created. And I think that definitely comes across one of the things that stood out to me in that unpacking of the perfection element that you're talking about. We're so scared of imperfection because it reveals there's parts of us that are not ideal by some external comparison or by some internal trigger or some past experience where we we have that feeling. How do you now deal with your imperfections, Like, how do you feel about parts of you that are not perfect?
I'm okay with that. I actually think a lot of who I am are just a few things that are not perfect, even down to my laugh. Sometimes I used to be insecure about my laugh, or you know the fact that I'll always talk during a movie, or you know, I always do something minuscule, and I think little things like that make me happy because I feel like everybody else in the world, you know, recent for example, a very small example, but Halloween, I was a banana and I and I genuinely just like got the cheapest outfit, put it on and roam around Times Square with my friends and have the best time. And everyone kept sending me these memes because every everybody else kind of went all out and maybe I could have painted my face and done a little more, but everyone looked really sexy and fun and literally I was a banana. That's basically sums up who I am to a tea and it was that to me means that I don't have to be perfect all the time.
I'd rather be that girl.
Yeah, And how does that apply to work? Like, how does that perfectionist mindset work in terms of like music or creation or acting? Like, because that's beautiful in your personal life. It sounds like there's this acceptance of you know, we can be yeah, we can be more inflow. But then how does that apply to like writing or creating or building?
Like, well, I think how I I don't Well, I always say this in any session, there are no stupid questions. I always have to say that out loud, because sometimes I genuinely will think, well, what does this mean? And how can I unpack this and create a song from this? Or how do I unpack this scene and do the best I can? You know, there are mistakes that happen in the studio and on set that actually end up becoming a part of it. You know, me messing up a line actually ended up being funny and we kept it in the show. Or you know, there's something I said in a lyric that was wrong and it ends up being the biggest hook that we've got. And I look for those moments, Yeah, crave I crave those moments.
That's a great example. I love all of those. Yeah, And that's what feels like magic, right. It's when the imperfection can somehow become a part of the process where you're just like, wow, this actually feels like we got somewhere. And so I think when we start I love that idea applied both personally and professionally, because I think even the parts of ourselves that we consider to be imperfect, the parts of ourselves that we consider to be broken, when you start seeing use in those when you start seeing purpose.
In those I always say that there's blessing in the breaking and every moment that you encounter in your life, even if it's just road rage as simple as that, to maybe losing someone that you love. There is no perfect way to heal, there's no perfect way of dealing with something. It's more just how am I going to be a better person? How am I going to make the best choice for myself so that I don't end up angry at that person on the highway, so that I don't end up ruining my day because of what someone to me on the four h five. You know, I want to also say that how can I turn something like losing someone I so dearly love into well, how can I celebrate that person and the great things that they're that they provided me or that they gave me. That takes a lot of work, So I don't say that lightly, but I try my hardest to do that, and I try to have my friends hold me accountable to reminding me, hey, let's try to flip this and try to turn it into something else.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think what what I'm gathering from listening to you is that again, it's you're not saying I've arrived, and this is how I think. Now you're saying, this is what I'm trying to practice, Like, this is the this is the approach that I'm mining in my own life.
And absolutely this is practice. Every day is practice. I even said it last night at the premiere. I was saying, I don't I don't have anything out. I'm definitely not like I'm sold, I'm good. It's it's more just this is a continuation. My story is not done, and I can't wait to find out what's going to happen next. And doesn't mean it's going to be easy and sure there's going to be bumps that happen, but I'm going to learn how to live with them.
Yeah, as someone who's so committed to moving forward, what did it feel like going back to like your school and all these old places. I won't give away too anybody in the documentary, you go visit, what does that do well?
Going home is like to me, it's it's untainted territory. It is safe, it is simple and kind. Where I'm from, it is all about you know, being together, loving each other. I go home and people are like, welcome home, Miss Gomez. They're not you know, treating me any differently. And I enjoy and I enjoy visiting you know what made me who I am, and it always gives me a good sense of like, Oh, I hope I can inspire people from where I'm from, because there's not a lot to do where I'm from, but I hope I can inspire just one person to do something bigger than that.
Was there any particular place that you went back there almost gave you a special feeling or something surprised you that you're like, oh, I didn't think this was gonna be.
Yeah, well, my snow cone place, I really I loved that place. I would go with my dad all the time and my cousin and we would get the pickle snow cones with like you know, grape in it, and it would just be so yummy and amazing, and it just, you know, brought me back to when it would be so hot in Texas and I was with my family and we would just stop there and sit outside for an hour and just talk and it was just the best.
Yeah. I love that. Yeah, that's that's great to hear. I think there's always I have this park in my hometown. It's called Broomfield Park, and it's it's still charming to me, even though I don't think if anyone else went, I know, but when I go back, I know where I used to go and buy my my ice cream from, and you know where the truck would be, and there's there's all these special moments that you that almost but it sounds like again like it sounds like it's not like you're like, oh, I missed that. It's almost like that was a part of me and it's a beautiful thing. But now I'm happy to be new. And even today when we were just walking over here and we were talking about just you finding places that fuel you. Yeah, and it seems like you've become open to saying okay, it's okay that life is changing and transitioning, and there's new places that feel more like home than old places.
I hate change, I really do. But I felt in the past year, which is pretty just it's pretty new, I have really really embraced the uncomfortableness of change. And I think it's because I get so exhausted of the same thing over and over again and it scares me. But I did learn that my world can be bigger by being in a different destination. I work on my show Only Murders in the building. It's in New York where I shoot, and I never I've never spent more than a week or two in New York, and I'm there for months. And just that alone was an uncomfortable, you know, experience, But I loved it, and I loved the friendships I made and the knowledge that I was gaining, the people I was around the park and walking, and just how like precious life is. It's celebrated, there's culture. It just becomes addicting to want to put yourself in these situations and see what happens. So I will say, in the past year, I've felt more comfortable with change, and I'm grateful for it, and I just I'm going to continue to do that. I want that.
How did you get comfortable with that discomfort? I guess in the first place, if you're someone who said, you know, like hated change, didn't like change, what I guess obviously naturally work and everything like that, But was there something internally where you're like, Okay, now I need to because you've done this, You've done uncomfortable things your whole life, right, Definitely, like you've had to do so many difficult things, whether it's going on tour when you're young or transitioning careers, You've constantly done uncomfortable things.
Yeah, but I think I had always kind of returned to the same behavior and the same pattern of maybe, well, I'm nervous of going out because I don't want to be seen today, or I'm going to just stay in because I feel anxious, or I don't want to go out to that event because I don't want to get seen. It just I was I was finding my self just being terrified of the world, and that just isn't a way of living. And it's easy to go do a job because well, I'm with a bunch of people. They helped me look good. I do my job, I smile, and I'm done. But taking spontaneous trips or you know, getting out and going to the Balboa Park, which is a very simple park, just doing that kind of stuff is necessary. And I noticed that New York really helped me. It just really opened me up. The show is really great, and I think being around a bunch of New Yorkers it does something to you. Man, It's good.
Yeah. Well, one of the biggest changes in atmosphere that you talk about the documentary is you go to Africa, right, and that's a that's a big change, definitely, you know, even if it's a shorter period of time, but you were still there for a.
There for a week, yes, but I mean that definitely wasn't the first time that I had taken trips in the vein of wanting to go for a mission. And it was one of the most beautiful moments of the film for me because we actually thought we were just going to make a quick little video about you know, what we were there to do, and then we fell in love with the people, We fell in love with the story, and we started noticing that everywhere in the world mental health is very, very real. It's very much something that's affecting everyone. And then you kind of realize that the world is a small place sometimes because you're all kind of walking through pain and you're all looking at things in a different way, but ultimately you all want to be happy. And I felt like they inspired me more than I could have done anything for them. It was a really beautiful trip, and yeah, it was one of my favorite moments of the film.
People don't always understand how mental health exists ever in the world. When you said that they're also experiencing mental health, what was their experience of it compared to what we would understand is our experience in the US.
So yeah, Well, I was talking to a woman named Betty and she was, you know, basically kind of the person touring giving us the tour around the village and the schools, and she was lovely. But when we stopped to have a conversation, we just were sitting down and she told me her story and how she was dealing with suicidal thoughts and not how she went to a lake and sat there for two weeks contemplating, not a day or an hour of moment, it was two weeks. And that was something that I felt floored by because that's different. Obviously we can have those thoughts, but she dismissed herself from everyone, and she had to find it with herself when so many people don't need to walk through that alone. But she did, and she did it well, and she's proud of it. And now she is in an incredible school and she is going to grow up to be the best influence for her village, for her sisters, for everyone that she's around. That's so so special, and I'm just having those conversations as someone from across the world. It's mind blowing. You don't really know what people are walking through until you do stop and have a conversation two weeks that I can't imagine that feeling what you must be walking through for two weeks to just be sitting there.
And did she feel the same from your deeper conversation with her, did she feel the same feeling that a lot of people do here where it's like I don't know who to talk to and I don't know a dono to trust.
She thought that she needed to be everything for her family, and she felt like she was letting them down, the same thing of not feeling good enough, not feeling like her being there would even be helpful. And you do find the similarities in it, and that's how I felt like I bonded with her.
It's incredible, right a cross culture, cross world, to have a human moment like that with someone. What purpose of those missions played in your life in terms of, like you said, this is not the first time you've been out, and I'm sure it's not the last as well. It's something that you want to continue to do. I mean, there was a moment in the documentary where you don't want to leave.
Yeah, I don't think I necessarily will always be broadcasting when I'm taking these trips or wanting to do more and help and travel. So I think that I will probably have these quarterly or even just maybe once a year. I kind of have to set time apart for that, and I make it a priority just because I feel personally that everyone is my brother and sister. We're all here together, living being and you know, wanting to navigate life together. And I want to continue to travel the world and be able to spread some sort of message or bring change in some form. I don't know something, you know. I want to be able to continue to always do something, and eventually, I do believe my life will We'll end up being something along the lines of doing the things that you do. You know, I got a few more things to do first, but eventually, yes, well.
You're already doing them. You know, you're already doing them. And yeah, there's that moment. There's the moment in the documentary. I think you're asked through a mirror envelope question, what is the what is your greatest dream or your ultimate dream, I think is the word, and this is exactly where you say. You say, I want to find a way to change lives, and I want to find a way to impact lives. And I think when people think of their ultimate dream, that's not the natural thing that comes to their mind. When did serving When did helping others become such a big understanding others as well? Because it's not just I know you feel you're growing from these experiences. When did that become an ultimate dream? Like when did that? Yea, what was your dream as a little girl? And then you know, how did that evolve?
I think that I was just I was just going to say my mom, I mean, from a very young age, we didn't have a lot, but it didn't matter. It was every Thanksgiving we were going to you know, we would go and help out in soup kitchens and my mom would talk to me about, you know, why we were there and explain to me the way of the world, and we would, you know, see really hard things and Texas you know, can be very you know, very conservative, and my mom would just break those barriers for me and explain to me how beautiful people are and how complicated and complex things are. About the world. She never protected me in a way of not showing me the bad things. She showed me everything. And that's what has always been a part of my life. I mean down to I'd be on set and I'd be talking to the director and someone would come give me a water, and if my mom noticed that he didn't say thank you, she would just remind me gently in a way that was like, hey, next time, be aware and be thankful. And it's kind of like, oh, yeah, you're right, sorry, Mom, but you're right, you are. You got to be aware of people, and you have to be aware of what people are walking through.
Yeah, I mean that's such a yeah, yeah no, And it's such a I think that's such a beautiful message to anyone who is growing up with a little bit more in terms of anyone who's grown up even you know, everyone goes through so many difficult things. But I felt the same when I first went to India. I was around nine years old when I first went to India, and I remember we didn't have a lot growing up, but we were still traveling to India. We were in a car and you look out the window and you see kids your age. I remember you know, just seeing tons of kids my age on the streets and just it was just, yeah, it just made me aware that there was a whole other world out there of experience that I only learned about later on. Yeah, but I can agree with you more that when you feel like you're a part, even a small part of the solution, the problem starts to feel more within reach, right. And I feel like sometimes when we pushed the problem away, try and keep it out of sight, it just feels bigger and harder and more difficult.
Absolutely ignoring it is not fun. I've done that before. It just you end up coping in ways that you never thought that you would, and you end up feeling disappointed because you just you don't want to ever feel like you're doing the wrong thing. I believe that everyone deep down knows what's right and what's wrong. And when you're at your rock bottom, if you will, because I believe that everybody does eventually have one of those moments. Hopefully it's just going to get lighter and lighter because you can start to attack it in a way where how do I approach this and figure out how to get myself out of this state of mind? And I've learned how to do that in the past few years, and I'm really grateful for it. It's a choice sometimes. But then I also hate when people say that, because sometimes I genuinely wake up in a depressive state and I can't get out of bed. But I allow myself to have that day and just focus on things that can make me feel better instead of pushing it away and saying, no, it's fine, I'm going to go out, I'm going to go do something, I'm going to go get my adrenaline up. I'm going to ignore it and ignore it and ignore it. It doesn't help at all.
Yeah, and you just said there that everyone goes through a rock bottom moment, Like everyone goes through that in their life in different ways. How have you become more mindful of your fears and rock bottoms? Because I think often we ask people like I look at your life and I think you've You've gone through so many difficult things, and you know, how do you deal with fears now? Because we all still have fears, we all still have worries. But I feel like you've found a way to become mindful of those things and become a bit more prepared for them.
Well, thank you. I think maybe you are seeing a good side of me, because I have the hardest time doing it.
I don't know.
My fears are relatively you know, they're quieter. Maybe I should say, you know, like for example, this documentary coming out, I am still nervous. I'm nervous for the reaction, even though I know that I have good intentions behind it. I think that I just have to understand that my fears are only going to continue to show me what I'm capable of. The more that I face my fears, the more that I feel I'm gaining strength, I'm gaining wisdom, and I just want to keep doing that. And I just hope to get better, hope to get smarter. I hope to become stronger and be a great person.
Yeah that's I mean, that's a phenomenal answer. And it's yeah, I don't think i'm seeing the I don't think it's a good side of you. Cele I think I'm I'm like you. I think you know, I I don't think it's a good side because I don't believe you have a bad side. And and but I but I think it's a it's your truth that we're seeing, you know, it's it's it's this, it's the it's the essence of us that I'm trying to see in you and myself, in my anyone around me, anyone I meet, whoever you bump into. It's like when you see someone's essence, that essence is pure and is genuine. It is like strong and powerful and capable, and it's the Everything else is not a side of us. It's just stuff that covers us up right, right, Like doesn't it feel that way?
Like you're absolutely right?
Yeah, Like I feel like I don't have a we don't have a I don't have a side of me that I don't like. I have stuff that's covering over who I really am exactly.
And it's how to how do you navigate controlling those things and in control of your yourself?
Yeah? Yeah, And I love what you just said about how confronting your fears is what gives you a sense of confidence and strength, because when you get through something.
Tough, it does it feels incredible. I mean, walking through all of those moments that I'm sharing with everybody else, it is really great. I Mean it's so sad to watch, but I would not be who I am. Of course, it's such a cliche if it wasn't for that, But facing your fears and tackling them it's the only way to get through them.
I feel, yeah, you said intention is so important there, and I think that anyone who's in the public eye sometimes all you have is your intention because you can't control anything else. Yeah, what role is intention played in your life? And then with this work more clearly, what is your intention for everyone who's going to watch it? Like, what is your hope and wish for the different people that will see it? But first of all, what role is intention played in your life? Especially as things have continued to grow?
You know, I think maybe in the past five years, I felt like projects I was a part of, even endorsements, something like that, the intention behind me being a part of anything needed to be good. If I did, if I got a lot of money, and I'm just being super transparent from doing this line for a T shirt and I'm just making this up, there's a huge part of me that actually feels uncomfortable with the whole idea, and that's just me. I have to think, Okay, this is thank you, but I need to figure out how this is also not going to be just about me. It's going to be about everyone that's involved in this. How can I turn it into to, hey, we're going to do some percentages to this, and this is how we're going to do the deal. I then feel more comfortable stepping into a situation and accepting it. But I've never based my decisions on what will get me to the top quicker, what will make me number one? Will I break records? All of those things to me are just bonuses. They're just great if it happens, it happens that way. But that's never been my intention. And some people in my position would think that's kind of stupid. You know, it's the whole point of doing it is to break these records, is to do all that stuff. But for me, and I think the reason why I am who I am is because just enough is what I am. I think that I just want to be enough and that doesn't have to be me killing myself trying to be number one at something or striving to be number one for something. It's exhausting.
How do you define being just enough? Now? Like? What is that evolved? And I'm sure it will change and I'm sure, bro, But right now, what is that I.
Feel, you know, I feel open, I feel ready for relationships and change. I will be shooting season three, so I'll be in New York for quite a bit and I can't wait to see what will happen and all the people will meet and all the people I get to spend time with again, like Steven Marty, and it'll be fun.
Yeah. I love that. Well, Selena, this has been such a beautiful conversation. And the good thing is we don't have to end it here, but we get to invite we get a very special guest's joining us today, a very special gift for my audience here and our community and everyone who's listening and watching. We get to have your mom on the show, which is amazing.
It's really fun.
So I am so excited about this because to be able to talk to you both about the incredible work you're doing together, her incredible lessons that she shared with you over time, that you spoke about so beautifully today, and I got to talk to her before we started recording as well, and just hearing about how innovative and creative she is. I mean, it's amazing. So if you're okay with it, I love to love it. Bring out your mom, Mandy over in a second, so we will go and grab her. Yeah, amazing. So I was so excited to have you hear Mandy, this is amazing. This is really special. When when I heard that I was going to have this opportunity, I think it's always interesting hearing about someone's journey through someone else's lens, especially your mom, like you know who else in the world. And now now my mom's going to be upset that I haven't had her on the podcast.
I have it.
So now now I feel the pressure.
Make my podcast. I'll just make one there. I love it.
But I was going to say, you know, it was just so beautiful in the documentary and even just now hearing what Selena had to say about the amazing impact you've had on her, hearing about you going to the soup kitchens when Selena was younger in the documentary, as I said before, hearing about how you encourage her to learn about things that scared her. Yeah, and that would help her. I mean, these are really I hope you feel extremely proud of this incredible human being. Quite and just you know, from an outsider's point of view, just how incredible it is to see someone sharing their truth with so much bravery, so much courage and impacting the lives and saving the lives of millions of people across the world. And I'm sure you feel a big part of that.
So I mean, honestly, I always hope to be a role model, is in the sense that I was honest about everything with her and who I was and as a person, because I feel like sometimes if parents project a perfection, then their kids feel like they have to like live up to that or achieve more, you know, And I just wanted her to always know I'm a person I'm gonna mess up, and at I was sixteen, so I was even more of a lost person. So I'm kind of surprised she came out as great as she is, to be honest, But yes, I'm very proud of her, and you know, I played a little role in it. And then she's like navigated herself into a wonderful adult. And there's been ups and downs, but it's just been it's been an honor to be her mother.
What does that feel like, I mean, that's a whole another experience having a child at sixteen. I mean, that's a very you know, challenging stressful thing for yourself to go through.
You're obviously not mentally in a space to be raising a child because you are a child and you're trying to figure out who you are. And even in some of my really hard times, I feel Selena, I came into this world at the perfect time because I was really lost myself and I wasn't going down the right path. And then when I found I was pregnant, I was like, Oh, I have someone who's going to I'm responsible for and they're gonna look up to me for guidance. And even at a young age, that hit me. And I'm thankful that that hit me and that I I did allow that pressure to make sure that I was trying to do everything right for her. But that was a moment that when you're sixteen, in that phase, you're trying to figure out your path in life, and I think I kind of lost a little path of my life because I had something more important to like take over. And I think that the delay adolescence is something that I felt like even now, you know, I still feel like I'm a little bit youthful, even though I'm like creaking and pop in when I walk, you know, I still sometimes feel like I have a little bit more adolescence in me and still things to learn. And so as a teen, it was it was really challenging. And it was really one of those beautiful like voor Texas of being young and being able to keep up with a child and having that energy. So I was able to go to school. I went to a conservatory after so I would take her to school and when she started kindergarten, and then I would go to school, and then I would go to work, and then i'd come home and do her homework and put her to bed, then do my homework and do it all over. And I think about that now and I'm like, no way, no way. I'm like I have a hard time getting up for my little one now. So it was like I was way too young then, and I'm like way too old. No, no, no, you know what I mean. It was just like where was the sweet spot? I just kind of skimmed by it and you know, accepted the challenge.
That's incredible. Moms are amazing moms across the world. My mom included just unbelievable resilience, unbelievable found tolerance. You know that. I mean that sounds like such an incredible journey. And you know, as you were telling me earlier, you haven't yet managed to watch the documentary. I've seen parts, but you haven't been able to bring yourself to actually watch it. Tell us about what that feels like and how hard that is.
Well, first, everyone's telling me how fabulous is it is. So it's like making me, it's making me more and more eager to kind of put that guard down. But the reason why is because like, we lived some of that together. We've went through that and we've found healing and we've moved past some of it. And even if it's something that she went through and I didn't know she went through it, it's as a mother, it's gonna affect me of like, oh, it's gonna hurt my stomach, it's gonna put me in that mindset and I'm gonna wish I could go and protect her. And she, you know, she was amazing and came through so much that I already feel like I protect you a lot. Yeah, And I was like, maybe I could just get through the holidays to not where I'm going up to her all the time, going I'm sorry, I didn't know, you know, because mothers do, like, you know, you want to take away your kids pain. You don't want them to have to experience that, even though that is part of developing who they're gonna be. And you know, who we all are is our pain and our suffering and our growth. So it's like, I either I'm gonna have to be in that mood where it's that time where I'm just like I'm not getting out of bed today and I already know I'm gonna be a little funky, and then watch it and then just be alone and kind of cry and then call her and tell her I'm sorry that I wasn't there and that moment, but you know, you just can't helicopter parent. So it just it just feels like her first breakup she ever had. I cried.
Yeah, I was like, they're both hurting, these four kids.
I wish I could take their pa.
Like our date was like a chaperone us to like the movies, like.
They didn't make it.
So mom's hot though, that's a mom's hot. Like unless you're a mom, you can't, you know, you know, it's it's hard to fully understand, like yeah, just everything you just said there of like wow, We've already lived through that, we've healed through that. To revisit that again, that's painful to feel a sense of guilt that I wasn't there for someone in a certain way. I didn't know what they were going through that Carrie's just saying, I mean, Selena, hearing that from your mom, Like, what does it feel like when she's like she hasn't been able to watch it because of all of this, how does that feel?
Well, It's it's not far off. I've only seen it twice. Wow, And I I've premiered it a few times for people, and I've stepped away from watching it. I think I relate to my mom because some of those moments were really hard. And it's not so much if you don't mind me like saying this, it's not you not being there. It was me not letting you be there. That was the heartest part. And it was also not letting most of my people, like my family, in because I was in so much pain and I was walking through all these things. And in a way, I am glad that I walked through some of it alone because it made me who I am. But at the same time, it breaks my heart to know that I had to walk through that when I didn't need to do it alone. So it's very much I relate to her. I understand why she feels that way for sure, and I get it.
So yeah, it's wonderful hearing both your perspectives on it because I think it again just you being him Andy, and I'm so grateful that you genuinely are here because it it just grounds this back into we're not watching a TV show, right, Like I think Alec did such a great job with it because I even though I'm not silling in his mother, it's like I can feel what you're saying through the way the story's told. But I think often when we watch things like this, we're like, oh, yeah, that's a TV show. It's not someone's life. And then when I'm sitting all of a sudden with you, I'm like, oh no, no, this is real life, Like this is someone's actual life and emotions, and that you know that having your voice in this conversation is so useful for that.
Well, I mean I look at like kind of go when we're going to the premiere last night, I had a moment before where I was crying. I'm like, I'm going to need to cry and just get it over with, even though I was just there to support her and I didn't watch the film. The power and of fear, which I always call fear the false existence appearing real and so like the fear is like everyone is seeing you in your darkest moment and that it's out there for the world to judge, and they will judge it however they will, because even you know, again not seeing the documentary, I hear it's very real and raw and honest and open to do something like that. It's it's for me. I cry out of fear, of like how you were feeling and like how I could protect you. And then I was like, I know that the little bit I did in the interview, I was down a week afterwards because it did put me back in that place even though we weren't there, and I blacked out the minute, you know, Alex said action and he was so nice about it. And my lovely friend, dear friend Emily, who does my hair and makeup, she looks she's they're good. She's all crying and.
She's like, I don't know.
I'm like, well, now everyone's going to know, and there's something beautiful to that because it's you're exposing a lot, and that can be fearful, but you're also giving a lot, if that's how you look at it, and so I think it can make those dark moments really beautiful.
Yeah, yeah, well, I think that's something you as a family seem to have definitely embodied the idea of using your pain to serve others, figuring out a way to make sure that these stories are not just told in silos, but they help other people feel connected. And you know, with what you're doing with Wonder Mine, like, tell us a bit about the mission behind why you founded that, why you brought that to life, because I feel it comes from the same place of like, we're going through these things personally, but we also know this is a collective global challenge and so we want to be a part of supporting those communities.
When I was really young, uh, and I was about seven years old, I did have my first and only suicide attempt, however you say, and it it didn't happen obviously seven years old, and I think that with traces back the time of always not feeling like I like nothing around me made sense in my world, and it was just like I felt like I was, and you know, nothing bad was happening. It's just like this seems strong to me, this seems wrong to me, I seem wrong, Like how how do I fix this? But from that moment, I've always carried I think that moment in my life in my mind of like not wanting anyone to ever feel that way, which is what led us to Thirteen Reasons Why and some of her fans opening up to us. When I read that, I knew that needed to be a conversational piece, and from the response of what it did and opening those conversations, I fired me to do more. But it was like about the timing of what we wanted to do and how we're going to use it, and so collaborating and figuring out what's missing out there as a support system was the ecosystem that we're you know, planning and working entirely to create where all of it is cohesive and you have one place to go to see that you know, we actually target it really a filter of feelings, so everybody has feelings that might not be a diagnosed medical condition, but also how can we put out content every day that you know, keeps it light, but keeps it real and keeps it open for conversation and build a community where everyone will feel safe and not ashamed of like a feeling that they're having and not ashamed. I heard you guys talking about perfection.
It's like, I.
Don't like to pretend there is perfection, you know. I like, I think perfection kind of puts a little bit of pressure whenever you can just be, like, just be and like so, I you know, I'm not a big social media fan, but definitely go to wondermind where we share positive messages. But I think what you know inspired me was creating this for everyone and content for people to have access to that can afford to get treatment or don't need treatment, but they need someone to say, hey, check this out, you know. So it's really for everybody.
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing your personal experience, though, because I can imagine that you know the fact that you've held that close to you for this long and now that's coming out in this beautiful way, But when you're holding onto it, it doesn't feel that beautiful always. I mean, cele know, how old were you when you first.
Learned about well, I don't think and this is probably fair enough to say, like she never really hid a lot of stuff when I was younger. I never was aware that we didn't have enough. I was never She did such a great job of I feel we're talking about you're in your right ear, But you did, Mama, You did of.
Being was this woman you speak of.
Like explaining situations to me that we would be in and and I feel around eighteen, I kind of started to realize more of her story and obviously it broke my heart and there are things that I never knew were going on, and she did such a great job of just letting me have a really great childhood. And then once I realized we could be open and honest with each other. That's kind of how Undermine started as well. We really, you know, ended up working together on an interview and we shared such interest with you know, the person I was interviewing with us, and we thought, hey, this is something we could probably do together. And it happened that way, and it was It's been really fun.
I do want to I know this is like a love fest, but like I do want to. There's a moment that like you touched me during that time that I don't even know if you remember. I remember I was doing that, going to school, going to work, trying to get her out of the neighborhood I grew up in and tried to give her a better life. And this was pre her doing anything besides directing films with kids on the street. Yep, but she wasn't doing anything professionally. I was sitting in front of a mirror and I was trying to get ready and I just started crying and I was crying. I was crying, and she come up behind me, and she was so young, and she like started playing my hair, and she like, what's wrong? And I said, I just don't know why I'm doing what I'm doing, and she goes, you'll figure it out, just keep going. And it was like I was like, she's already smarter to be so yeah, It's like it's it was like a really good, like strong moment, like you don't ever want to you know. I think being vulnerable in front of her allows, you know, the vulnerability to you know, be welcomed.
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, I think that's I think that's so true as we're growing up, it's like we often look at our parents as perfect unless they let us in. Yeah, or by the time you figure out that they're not. And it's interesting that you're saying that at least you felt you were just always open and honest with what you were going through and with with your own challenges and your own struggles when you're when you're going through your own stuff and you're watching your child go through their stuff, like what's going through there's mind in that situation, like how are you dealing with your own stresses and pains and trying to be there and often, as as Selena said, and you said, children don't want their parents involved at a certain time, right, Like I can relate to that completely, Like I think you know, I listened to everything my parents said up until like I was thirteen years old, and then from like thirteen to twenty five, I didn't want to hear from them. And then after twenty five, I was like, oh, you guys were the best, right, Yeah, you're right, but everything and you go through that journey, so you know when your child doesn't want your help, when your child is not allowing you in, like what goes through a parent's mind, especially when they're going through their own work themselves.
I just needed more therapy in a feeling, and you feel because I want to use this term lightly, like you feel like you feled in some capacity. So then you're like, I know, I took that opportunity to try to see maybe where were the missteps I took as a parent. Was I too open with her? Was I too liberal with her? Or you know, should I not let her do Barney? You know, like it's just all these decisions that you know, you make, you just reflect on, and I think I think as parents we have this capacity to decompartmentize your feelings and then prioritizing everyone else's. Like I was telling you earlier when we were talking, it was it's easier to bury your stuff and then kind of focus, which then becomes unhealthy for the receiving party and for yourself because you're not taking care of yourself. So I was. I went through it. A lot of days, didn't get out of bed. There was just like a lot of crying, a lot of therapy. And I had a therapist because I also I had a miscarriage during the madness, And you know, I had this therapist who gave me the best advice ever. She's like, just I need you to leave your house once a day and go go to the movies, buy a ticket. I don't care if you watch it, but every day you need receipts that you left your house. And so I would like walk through them all just like crying, being lost and you know, not knowing what to do. And I would buy stuff and I'd have to go and take it to her in each session, and I didn't I didn't even ask for the purpose. I was like, she's just trying to get me to get out of the house. And then I realized the whole Like after about six weeks of doing that, I started feeling more comfortable with being even more vulnerable because I'm crying and I know the world's going to be okay, and nobody's judging me. People are asking me, hey, are you okay that kind of thing, and you know, I was just like no, and then you know, you just keep walking. But like that judgment that everybody's afraid of. It shows me that, you know, because I was mad that I felt as a mother and this is in my eyes, not like you, you know, like I felt as Selena's mother. And then I also my body hurt my other baby. So I was like angry at myself completely and I needed to see that oh, the world's alive and there is forgiveness and I can still find happiness for myself because I was just like being a mom with something and the only thing I really knew to do since the age of fifteen. So when that's gone, you're you're just like, oh, I'm supposed to have all mees that don't tell my child, I'm supposed to do things, you know. So it was a lot of growing, you know, and it's hard when you're in it, but when you get out of it, it's fantastic. It really is. It's just you feel lighter and you feel like more hopeful, you know, and that then when you have that next opportunity or that next you know, downtrodden moment, you know you're going to get out of it. It's like, all right, I just got to get through this, just got to figure it out, gotta vibe through it, and then it'll it will pass. Yeah, So I think, yeah, you were talking about rock bottom a little bit earlier. Yeah, definitely hitting rock bottom it does. It feels like you're breaking through.
What's really refreshing hearing both of you together is just I feel like this is going to heal a lot of parent children relationships. Like listening to you both today because I'm just thinking so often we think our thoughts to ourselves and we never share them with the people that those thoughts are about. So, you know, I'm sure there's so many children out there who their thoughts are like, oh, I wish my parents did this better and my parents could have done this, and those are valid thoughts. And then there's parents out there at the same time having the same thought of like I wish I didn't do that to them and I you know, and often we just never find out. We never know because we don't get to have these open, honest dialogues. And so I really think this, on top of everything you do, this is really going to inspire a lot of parents and kids. Yeah, it's because it's even even listening to you, I'm just I'm thinking of my parents, and I'm thinking of my friends parents, and I'm thinking everyone needs to be able to open their heart because somewhere everyone's painting themselves the villain, and someone's painting themselves as the person who messed up and got everything wrong. Yeah, and in our head we're thinking, oh, they got away with it, or you know, they're not aware of it, So I find I mean, did you were you always open to therapy and always open to this self work? Was that a part of who you were as well? Always? And that was or was that something you kind of turned to it a.
Certain well, I will tell you a haunting little secret that when I was really young in junior high, I wanted to be a criminal psychologist. So that's why I always says that she's making fun of me and murders. Maybe, yes, that was I young that person, but I was already reading on serial killers at that age because I was fascinated with the mindset and I didn't come from, you know, an environment where therapy was even talked about, but I just at at a certain age, I really felt like super depressed, and so I had to go out and explore it myself and go through tons of doctors, and you know, you would say one thing and it was just like they go, hey, are you seeing things? I'm like, I saw Black Butterfly the other day and they go, oh, so you're hallucinating, and I'm like am I? So like I had to go and I wasn't, but it was a real black Butterfly, So I had to learn like how to understand myself and my mind on my own. And finally I also I did I went away to a facility and it was the first time I got to really spend all that time. Is best twenty eight days that I spent, you know, on myself and yeah, you just like you have to kind of build that relationship with your mind. And I think people are so afraid of being honest with themselves because then they have to face it. But what like helped me is I realized, like you know, in this relationship, I was parenting her the way I needed to be parented, not what she was needing. And that is how I feel like I made my contribution to healing this relationship. Is like, Okay, pull back. I need to know her and her needs, not like be the mama bear, even though I still haven't lost that completely, but like you know, sometimes I just need to listen and not fix it. And so that was the biggest thing. I think I really went on a little tel spin there, but that was the biggest thing that I learned through you know, that whole time that we were separated. It was like seeing who I was and how other people see me and I do that every day I'll say something, I'm like, Okay, how did that come off to someone else? You know, because I have ADHD, so I'm quick to like spurt out whatever is in my brain. And then I'm like, they really didn't need to know that, but it's out there in the world now.
The self work in this room is amazing. The amount of like self reflection and self awareness in this room is really strong. This is yeah, yeah, this is very powerful stuff. No, and you did not get lost on attendent at all. I think everything you just shared with us, even you just coming to that conclusion of knowing that you're parenting someone that you deeply loved in a way that you wanted to be parented, I think that is at the core of so much of how we all live. Yeah. Right, We're all love people the way we wish we were loved, and we're all hurting people the way we wish we weren't hurt. And it's so it's just fascinating when we finally, you know, look beneath the surface and uncover why it's all there and where it is, and to do that together and separately. I love this idea that there were times when you have to do this at a distance from each other as well. I think that's such a healthy message to be out there as well. In the world, I think we're often all trying to solve all our issues in the same place.
Yeah, definitely. I think there are moments, even you know, even in friendships, where it wasn't necessary for me to take a step back and figure out what is serving me, what's not serving me, what makes me happy, what's challenging me, what's helping me move forward, versus what's not.
I think it's really important.
I think when we're looking from the outside in, we limit people to certain experiences, we remember them for certain people, we expect them to be with people that they're meant to be around, the way families are meant to be, Like there's always meant to be. Yeah, and then it's like, well know, in reality, there's space, there's distance, there's reflection, there's the need for all of these things. With the work that you're talking about earlier with me as well, in terms of how you now taking these messages on screen, yeah, you know, which you're sharing, which I know is such a big part of the work, and I feel so excited about that, Like That fills me with the greatest amount of joy knowing that we're going to see better representation of mental health on screen. I think that's huge. Where did you start to realize that from Thirteen Reasons Why, as we spoke about earlier, like, where did you start to realize that was so important for people to see that representation on screen?
Well, I think it comes back to not wanting people to feel like I did at seven years old. It's like, I'm so open like with you know, oh, I'm bipolar, I have ADHD. You know, I was misdiagnosed for a while, so like I was always so open with it, and you know, even in a town where they're so accepting in certain capacities, it's still like, well she she's not stable. And I even would joke and go, yeah, I'm crazy, I'm crazy. I'm crazy. And I was like not supporting myself in that, and I didn't want anybody to feel that way. So, you know, during Thirteen Reasons Why, we worked tiresly the entire team to make sure we were executing the whole point of it in that you know, we're losing teens every day to suicide and it's it's horrible and unnecessary and you know, how do we how can we as a adult, And that's why it was so important, I think for me and Selena to go out and talk about it so parents would watch it together, you know. And once that got the reaction it got, you know, I heard different opinions, and I wanted to hear everyone whether they thought it was a bad idea, a great idea, it touched them, it offended them. Like I really like listen to everything and all the you know, data, and I've always been someone who enjoyed storytelling, and so I like to tell stories and if I can, you know, show and like I was telling you earlier, I like using silver Lining's playbook because they're bipolar, but they're having a life, they're having a relationship and as it may come with challenges, every relationship comes with challenges. It's not just a mental mental issue that someone has that causes those challenges. We're all people and if we just learn to understand each other, they'll be less fear of it, and then people will get more treatment and they'll just be more happiness. And I know, sometimes I feel like being like the world's gonna be happy. You know kind of like that, but you know and again like my adolescence, that's still there. But I that's what inspires me is to I scared off people by talking about myself in a negative way and by you know, not sharing enough, so it's like or sharing too much. So then it's like navigating that and like you know, like I mentioned like when It Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and girl interrupted favorite films, love them, but that's not the reality Selena or I live in every day. You know, I have been in a facility, and but it was not like what's being portrayed was. It was a beautiful experience and and made me a better person for it. So it just like media loves to, you know, tell all of the bad stuff. It's like we could use it as as like educational without preachy, and so like let's just tell stories of real people dealing with mental health issues and different capacities and show that you can that you're all right, You're gonna make it. It's like, and you just need to give yourself that that permission, and then once you give yourself that permission, you're gonna come out a happier person. I like I embrace my ADHD like I really do. We have a lot of fun together.
Well, I think this is painting a beautiful picture of just how like we always want growth to be this perfect line, you know, we expect expect growth in families individually to just look like, oh, we're just all growing at the same time, and isn't this beautiful? And it's like, well, no, growth is not that way. Yeah, And growth is being patient when my daughter wants to grow this way and I'm trying to figure this out, or I'm going to be patient while my mom pivots and shifts, and that's what growth is. Growth is being patient with each other. And growth is holding space and being okay when we're not being the nicest people to each other. Like, there's so much more to growth, and so I want to thank you both for displaying that and sharing that with us today. Oh thank you because it's yeah, it's it's special seeing it from this perspective for sure, Rather than either or. We end every on Purpose episode with a final five, which we're gonna ask to both of you, so you'll do one question at a time each and these are one word to one sentence maximum. They are not questions like what's your favorite color? Promise, They're all thoughtful questions as you would expect. Okay, so question number one is what is the best advice you've ever received or heard when it comes to mental health.
I'm sure it's like in a Brene Brown book.
I'm right on my roof.
I think though, the best advice I had been given is probably what I have thoroughly said throughout my documentary and speaking with you, is learning how to make it a part of your life. Like that's why I say make it your friend, because I think you have to understand why. And sometimes you may not always know why. But if you can understand that it's a feeling, like my mom said, where maybe this will pass and maybe you just got to go through it, and you have to have the day in bed crying. You have to do those things in order to figure out what it is that's going to set you free from it.
Maybe that would be advice that's make you a practice. Yeah, I think mine was take your time. That was what I was told when I went to That's Tree. Yeah, take your time.
It's really good.
Yeah.
What's some of that second question? What's some of the worst advice you've ever heard or received when it comes to mental health.
That it's all in my head and I can just control it, like stop having bad thoughts.
Yeah, yeah, I was good to say somewhere along the lines of like you're fine. I mean yeah. I had someone say to me literally like you're so dramatic, you make up everything you know.
And that was so hurtful, the worst I felt the worst. Calm down, it's.
Like good answers, all right. Question number three, how would you both define your individually your current purpose in life.
I fully feel that I am exactly where I meant to be. I am meant to share my story and in this season of my life, I want to be loved the way I love people. I want to give the way people have so generously given to me, and I want to continue to work on become a becoming a better and a happier person every day.
It's a beautiful purpose I've received, so now I want to give awful.
Wow, this is this is really beautiful answer question of before, what's something you used to value that you don't value that much anymore?
Oh, people's opinions? I agree, it's so exhausting. I would say it is nice to hear great things. But I accept compliments in a manner where I can appreciate them. But I have to learn how to just know that. I got to keep a straight head. I got to like understand that everything is a gift and not to let things get to my head.
Yeah, because I always say, if you accept all the compliments internally, then you'll have to accept all the negative. So just be careful, just like be selective with what you let Yeah.
Yeah, Yeah, there's a beautiful quote. I can't remember who said it, but it says, don't let compliments get to your head and criticism get to your heart. Yeah.
I love that.
Yeah, I love that. That was very poetic with what it's.
Been said for just repeatia, no, no, but I think it's such a beautiful and Yeah, and I think that's also when we're mindful of giving compliments to others. I think something that I've learned is that I enjoy and we've talked about this today. I really enjoy the art of learning to see someone's essence. It's something that I try and live by because and then when you want to compliment someone, it's like, how do you give a compliment that is an empty flattery. L that isn't just surface level. And I think when we get compliments like that, they don't go to our head, they do go to our heart. Yeah, you know, it's different. So I hope that we can also learn to compliment each other in more, you know, beautiful and genuine ways. Fifth and final question, Question number five is if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it.
Be practicing forgiveness?
Wow?
I probably would would say something super simple and cheesy, but treat others the way you want to be treated.
Yeah, and then we throw in the forgiveness.
Yeah, honestly that's the biggest thing.
Yeah, forgiveness. Yeah, yeah, I stayed with campaign.
Mom forgiveness campaign.
That's right. Wait, can I ask you a question? Yeah, okay, when is the last time you did something for the first time?
Oh? Wow, okay, when was the last time I've been practicing this time? The most interesting answer that came to mind straight away, even though it was a couple of months ago. Now, I went trekking with gorillas in Rwanda.
Wow, and it was it was amazing.
It was. Yeah, it was a few months ago and it was the most incredible experience.
Of that sound life wild.
Yeah. So they're mountain gorilla and they're not you don't they don't have any technology on them or you know, they're not treated a certain way. They're not in a zoo or they're not trapped. You're in their home and you have to set out early in the morning to go and look for them. And the people that are doing these tours they know where they usually are, so they take you in that direction. Oh my, and then you finally discover like this family of gorillas. And I thought i'd see one or two. I was very I wasn't skeptical, but I was kind of like, who knows, you know, we saw eighteen gorillas, like a family, So no, you know, I wish they cuddle each other. Yeah, but they don't. They the guides tell us that the only thing you have to do is maintain your distance. You're not allowed to try and touch them or their kids, because they see that is violent. The gorillas are just so peaceful and they're so calm, and they have this sound that they make. This was my favorite part of the experience. So we were told by our guide that if you make this sound, it basically tells the gorillas. We come in peace, and so this sound is you have to make that sound and the gorillas make it back to you, or they'll do it to you as they come closer, just to let you know, hey, we're not trying to harm you. We're just going to walk past you.
I love that.
Really special. So that was the most recent memory of it.
Was like, this was beautiful.
Yeah, it was. It was really it was really truly special. It was you know, it's just being with another creature, that another form of life that is uninterested in you. Yeah, it's it's very humbling in a good way. This form of life doesn't even care that I exist staring at it, and the gorilla is just like, yeah, that's a good question. It's a good question. Well, Selena and Mandy, you have both been so gracious with your time today. You've been so kind and generous with your energy. And this documentary is going to change so many lives, and it is going to shift the culture of how we share our pain in a way that truly positively impacts the lives of people across the world. And so thank you, Birth really appreciate so much. Thank you for sharing your heart for years, for sharing your soul and for taking the time to create something that's truly going to be talked about for years and years to come.
Thanks, thank you j You're the best.
And thank you for your friendship as well, of course, and thank you for opening up so vulnerably with us today about your experiences about you know, all the gifts and the challenges that come with loving family and each other. And also for leading as part of this movement and everything you're doing with wonder Mind and trying to help people all across the world with mental health and wellness. Thank you so much for your commitment to.
That, and thank you, thank you for everything you do. Yes, altogether we can.
I love it. Thank you perfect, Thank you love that