Hmm. This episode of of Course with Claude Harmon comes to every Wednesday. It's the one year anniversary of the podcast launch. Last year we launched with Mel Read and this week, as it's Women's US Open Week, we're going to have Marina Alex, recent winner on the LPGA Tour. I just want to take a quick second and thank everybody, UM for listening to the podcast. I mean, it's been crazy, UM. I gotta be honest. I never thought that UM I'd be doing a podcast. I never thought people would listen. UM. But I just can't thank everybody enough for supporting and listening. It's been really one of the cool things UM that's happened to me in my UM golf career. And to have the opportunity to UM interview all the people that we've interviewed over the last year. If you haven't gone back, if you're new, we've got so many great interviews, so ease go back and listen. But this week Marina Alex, I work with her. She's really really a cool kid, UM big big win having won in four years, got her second win on the LPGA Tour UM not long ago, and she's got a really really interesting story and gets into a lot of cool stuff. So I think everybody's going to enjoy the interview. But before we get to that, I want to talk about one of the partners of the podcast, rap Sodo. I'm a big fan of their launch monitor. You've guys have heard me talk about it. It's easy to use, extremely portable, and gives you all the metrics that you need in order to practice smarter and improve your game. Gives you distance, ball speed, clubhead speed, launch angle. Those are the same numbers that the players that you watch on the range at a PGA Tour event are using. They're the same ones that I use. There's new data visualization as well, which will give you some really cool graphics, including a visual overlay of every shot you hit on the range. One of the best parts is it's a fraction of the cost of other launch monitor is out there, and they're giving off course listeners an additional one hundred dollars off to try it out. Go to rap sodo dot com backslash off course and use the code off course for one off your purchase. Again, that's code off course for one dollars off at rap sodo dot com backslash off course. So now let's get straight to the interview with Marina Alex. All Right, my guest is a two time winner on the LPGA. You just won your second LPGA event in four years. Marina, how did you get it done? What was it like getting back into the winner circle after you know, a four year drought? Um? Well, I mean you know you've even watching the past year. Um, how did we get it done with together? You and I? Uh no, seriously, Um, it was a weird four years. I mean I think I said this a few times. COVID was weird for everyone kind of just put the brakes on golf. And then once I got started, I got hurt and how to put the brakes on golf again for pretty much a full year, and so at that point I was out of it competitively. Um, my swing was a little bit of a mess, My back was a bit of a mess. So how to basically figure out how to get back to where I was? And it took a lot of little trial and error figuring it out. But then I met you, and here we are. You mentioned your swing, and you know a whole a whole new me. You mentioned COVID kind of knocking you backwards. I think everybody has experiences that put you actually were trying to do things during COVID to help yourself get better. You were trying to work out more. You're trying to do a bunch of stuff, and it's stuff that you normally don't do, and it's stuff that your body really didn't like you doing. I mean, well, when you're not really golfing every day and you're just like, okay, working out whatever, you don't really realize the toll that it may or may not be taking on your golf shape, which is a whole other thing that I think people don't quite get what that is. I mean you laugh at like John Daily, right, or some people that play that they don't seem like they're in shape, but they're in shape for golf. Like the muscles that they need to use to play golf are strong and they work, and when you don't work those out and you do other stuff, it kind of makes you out of golf shape. And I was very quickly and then I jumped right back into it traveling playing and I just completely jacked on my back. That's crazy, though, because you're trying to do things to get in better life and physical shape really good, You're getting got the beach body like it would have been like I could take, you know, a selfie in a bikini and post didn't feel good about it. I mean it didn't, but I could have. And then I was like, but my golf shape was awful, and I mean that's the most important thing at the end of the day. It's interesting. I mean we are in an age to where everybody's you know, working out as fashionable, you know, trying to get in shape. You see, your golfers are athletes, you know, certainly the PGA Tour, you know, it seems like everybody's got a trainer, everybody's traveling with one. But you still have guys, like you said, like John Day, guys like Shane Lowry who don't necessarily fit the athletic model of what it is, but they're doing things on a regular basis that help them and their body. When you say there's a difference between physical shape and what you're trying to do in the gym to get better at you know, getting stronger and then golf shape, to you, what's the difference. I think the difference is the combination of strength and then mobility and flexibility. So like for me in COVID, let's say I'm working out. You know, I'm running, I'm doing I don't know, I was doing yoga, I was doing all sorts of like peloton, strength lifting. All that could have made me either hyper mobile in some ways where I'm over flexible, which is not great for golf if you have too much too much flexibility, or I was not flexible enough. I don't really know. And like all of those rotational moves that you know you do day in and day out, I wasn't really doing because and I also wasn't really going to the range that much. You know, when you're like, okay, your next tournament is going to be in four months, are you are you going out to grind? Like no, You're like, okay, I'm going to take this as a mental break, which it was. It was great, But then I just like completely lost track of just the simple, you know, correct exercises like activations, stretching my hammy, stretching my hip flex ers, you know, working on my lower back muscles, like all those things that I would do normally every day when I'm on the road or at home. And I just was like, ya, can't be bothered. So basically you became like a regular recreational golfer. Right, you're going to the range and hit hitting thirty balls to play, working out for life and for fitness, doing things like I was like, oh, we're carrying our clubs and walking eighteen holes and like having a nice time. Like April, no one's doing anything, but like I would never carry my back. You never do that. And it's interesting that because I think people there are a lot of times and I think you know, the guys um you know, certainly guys on the PGA tour, um, the girls on the LPGA tour, everybody is more conscious of the body swing connection. Right, you know what, you know the limitations you have in your body. But it's interesting the lockdown, you were doing things that a fifteen twenty handicapper that watches you on TV doing, They don't necessarily they're not doing anything golf specific, right, they don't know what their limitations are. They don't know what their body can and can't do. Right, you obviously know what your body can do, but you're just basically doing yoga. You're doing all of this stuff that's gonna help you, but none of the stuff that you were doing good for golf. No, not really, and a little bit was like, I think ignorance of that because you know, okay, I've been playing off my whole life. Most of us have. You would never think that tuning it off for whatever a month, two months could make that much of a difference or an impact. But it definitely did. And that was kind of like my mistake of not really recognizing that element of like how quickly your body can forget doing things or needs to retrain to do things, and then it takes time to build up that you know, muscle memory, like the neurological connection between like how to fire certain muscles and do all that that you need to do for golf. It's like such a very you know, back of your body sport. You know, you need your scaps, you need your glutes, you need your hamstrings, you need all of that, and a lot of what we do on a day to day life is very front dominated. You know, quads hip flexors like and all those things don't help your golf because you get pushed forward and you really want to be working to like feel like you're using the backside of your body. So when you don't work on it all the time. It's you're my body wants to forget how to do it completely, and that was a pretty costly mistake. And then also over the last you know, two or three years, you've been plagued with some some pretty serious back issues and that contributed. I think you know what what happened to hurt your back initially? Was it? Was it something something off the golf, really silly, I was picking. I've always had a kind of like I would say, like a fickle time with my back where I'd go through bouts of not feeling great, but everything would be a few days, you know, three or four days, and then I would feel like back to normal. And a lot of it's related to like my pelvis stability. I get off in certain areas and then like my like I get rotated and twisted, and then that applies like too much pressure to my lower back, and like if you play on that for extended periods, then you run into problems. But I had come back from I think it was the British Open. We were playing at Truon. I believe I wasn't feeling good that week and I came home. I was in Nashville, I went to Whole Foods and I picked up a girl three bag off the floor and I couldn't couldn't walk, couldn't walk for like four or five days, sat on the couch, um did whatever drugs the tour doctor prescribed me to do, and then I flew out to A and A and I played UM the next week because it was a major and I didn't want to miss it. And then I was I was done after that UM, and that was a bad year. Problems, yeah, and I um, you know, I thought, oh, it'll be a week or two, like I'll be back, you know, at most, and then it was like getting longer and longer. And the tough part is, you know, I was looking at US. Okay, good thing is US opening was rescheduled to December of that year and we're still a tour championship. And I'm like at that point, it was September and I'm like, I can be ready for that, no problem, I'll get ready, Like I'll be fine, I'll slow down, I'll take my time. And I tried to get ready and I just went backward again, and then that ultimately forced me to sit out you know, Diamond Resorts Tournament Champions which was a bummer. Like there were things that like if I had just been a little bit more patient, um, and not that I didn't listen to the people around me. I did. I just was like, in my head, there's no way it's going to take this long. There's just no way. I didn't want to believe that at all. And I mean, I kind of learned a little bit the hard way, but I'm but I feel like it was a good learning lesson and like my lifestyle habits have changed completely. When Bryson had his um hand surgery recently, I saw that he had hand surgery and I sent him a message and we were just talking back and forth and he was like, you know, I'm frustrated. You know, I want to get going again. And I sent a message I said, just remember there's no athlete in history that's come back from an injury too long. Everyone comes back from an injury. And when you wore injury, you said that. I mean, you've got people around you, they're trying to tell you what to do and everything, but the fleet mentality is, Okay, you know, I've got these tournaments to play. This is my job. When we you know, is it hard as an athlete when you're trying to do this as a profession to think of the long term as opposed to this. And and I also have a like and I think it's a mentality of myself where I don't like using it as an excuse for something that you can or cannot do, like just go out and you know, work around it like practice, like you know. And I've always kind of been a little bit that way. Probably not a good thing in the long term because I I flirt with that line of like maybe playing through something that if I had just taken a few days off, it would have like really reduced my problem. But I don't. I just don't like saying like I'm like, I don't feel good, I don't want to do it. So um, that was a struggle for me, like to sit there and like use it as a reason that I shouldn't be doing something, you know. But with it back, it's tough. You really just need to rest because everything we do on a day to day is very spine related. Even stupid things like doing my laundry is like a horrible posture. And like, you know, my pts were like just you know, I have like one of those um grabbers, I'm still in my house, like to grab stuff off the floor instead. Yeah, like doing the dishes, unloading a dishwasher. Even brushing your teeth is like a bad angle to be because you're like down here like this. And so there were a lot of things that I was like, whatever, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. But when you just don't listen to your body, um, it pays back in a negative way. Usually. You mentioned in the press conference after you Want a couple of weeks ago that there was you were thinking it maybe about you know, you're in your early thirties, how much longer do I want to keep playing? How much longer can I keep playing? And you mentioned that you thought about you have had faults about maybe doing something else other than playing professional golf. Yeah, and I and I do I think injury um, like you you put that aside. I do think and I think this last couple of months though, is maybe put um what I would have thought as the next phase of my life maybe a little bit further down the road now. Um. But no, there are a lot of other things that I'm interested in, and I don't think that like I don't want to call it like a one trick pony. But I don't feel like golf is like the only thing that I'm I want to do and I want to be successful at. So yeah, there are other things I'm going to do after this, but I think it's just going to be a little bit longer now. I Mean, the obvious question is what are the what are the things? What are the things that you would like to do when your golf career. I mean, I love, um, I love golf. I don't want to be out of golf. But I think that I'm pretty passionate about where our tour and women's golf is at and where it could be. And that's the avenue that I'm going to go next. UM. I don't know exactly what it's going to be as far as what the next step would be, but I want to see your game grow. I would love to see something like a President's Cup become a team event with a guy and a girl, UM, and that that like, and I need to figure out the plan for how do I get you know, how do I get that to happen? What what in between phases? It's it's not different than golf, really, right, Let's say you have you know, short term goals and then like a long term goal of where you want your career to be. What, um, you're right struggling down the wrong We don't need hold your course, you do hurt makes me play? But yeah, so every you plan out a little like you know, in between steps to make something happen. And I don't think it's any different in in a career that's not you know, that's not sports or it's not result related. You know, you have to say, okay with my my tenure goal is this, Like let's say I would love to run a mixed team President's Cup, Like that would be amazing, but you don't just start that tomorrow. So it's like what are the little in between phases that can get that to become a reality. And that's the planning that I kind of have to do and networking and taking you know, maybe just working on a project, you know, just for fun even while I'm playing, like you know, observe how something like a Solheim Cup is run, or observe how um people run tournaments like stuff like the match Like there are different things that you know you can learn along the way, and then it's just getting in touch with the right people and actually making that leap. But that would be something I would really love to do. You mentioned kind of a joint President's Cup team with the men's and when you and I joke all the time, and when I'm on the European I mean, I'm on the PGA Tour a lot, and we joke all the time about the massive differences between the PGA Tour and the LPG. I really want them to do like a day in the life segment and just take like one of the guys, take one of the top ten players, guys that you know. I mean, hey, they make a ton of money, They fly private, they rent houses, they have chefs, they have all of these things. Yeah, I just want to throw them in like one of our events that are not necessarily like a major or doesn't have all the glitz and glands. Give me an event. I don't want to. I don't want to throw our events under the bus, but um, there are a couple events that probably need a little sprucing up, and um, I would love to throw them out there for a week and to see how what do you think a top ten player in the world's gonna do? From the PGA Tour when he comes to a tournament, just for instance, and you know, we played at will Share a couple of weeks ago. Great place. Great, of course, it's tiny. There was no club trailer because they couldn't park it anywhere, and no fitness trailer. So I would love to see someone show up for a week. Can't get your clubs, re grip, can't get any new equipment, can't go work out unless you want to like squeeze into the Wilshire Club fitness trailer with everyone else in the physios. Yeah, that would be fun. I would love to see how that would work out. Honestly. There will be people listening to this first world probably, but what they don't realize is, I mean if we look at you know, during the lockdown, um, someone posted the workout facilities for the Was it the women's N double N double a versus what the men? It was like a couple of free weights. It's like a bad hotel jam it was. It wasn't human. It's like a days in It wasn't. And then they had like I think like forty five pieces of Olympic equipment and for the men's and the women's ad. Because I mean, you know, in the age of social media, there have been players, you know that have come out from the LPGA Tour that have talked about, you know, the difficulties, you know, the massive gulf between the amount of money that is being you know earned and thrown at you know, the PGA Tour and we look at the LPGA Tour and we look at shoot. I mean it's huge, it's h huge. I mean the majors, I have to say this year, especially last year, it's started, but um that gap is starting to get bridged, which is great and it should. I mean, you look at tennis is a perfect example. And I know that they play at the same venues and so the TV blocks are the same time, but they compete for the same money. And I don't think that that is the case in the week to week events, but for the Grand Slams they do. And I think that it's a great It's it shows great progress that that our majors are starting to the persones are the US Open right, we're I think we're just under ten million. UM first place prize is close to two. If it's not too I think it might be UM Our Tour Championship were playing for the winner winning check is I think this year to five and the rest and then it's like a fifty player field. For the rest of that is like a five million dollar purse, which is huge. Um. The British went up, Um, Evian's gone up kpmg Um. They kind of started. They set the bar PG of America did with better venues. Um. Just putting on like a world class golf tournament. I mean, it is a major, you know, and it's a trickle down effect like the other events are going to have to, you know, follow suit. I feel like and we and we are, We're seeing it. It It just it doesn't happen overnight, but it's definitely getting better what you want how much for winning in Palas forties a couple of weeks ago, And I can't complain about that because there was that at all on the PGA Tour. You play in a w g C and finished twenty you're probably making Yeah, I know. I think I read somewhere something somewhere. There was one year a guy played like one hole in with Drew to get last place money and it was like eighty five thousand dollars and I was like, oh my gosh, so that could be a month in the road of good golf, and I'm making eighty five thousand dollars. Maybe. So let's take a quick break to share a message from one of the POD's newest supporters, ADP. 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So as a sport, as you know somebody involved in it, what are some idea is that you think that can bring more eyeballs to the LPG, Because I think that's something that we hear, We hear that year after year after how do we get more people's quauseiating conversation if I'm being honest, because it's like the same thing over and over again. UM, I think there are a couple of things, you know, we need to look at a how we're presenting our product on whether it's Golf Channel or NBC or CBS. We we desperately need more investment in that. We need more cameras. You know, you look at what, um the production crew and the cameras and everything that goes into a regular PGA tour event. Is it easily double to triple the investment level of an LPG event. So you know, if you only have five or six cameras, how much golf can you actually capture? Filling in a lot of idle time. And it's no one's fault other than the fact that we're just there's just not enough money being put into that side of it to create a more exciting product to watch, because I mean want to watch the leaders, but there are so many other things happening on the course. You know, it's fun to flash to a guy holding out for an eagle or chipping in here or hitting a crazy shot out of the water. I don't know. Maybe you're trying to watch someone make the cut on Friday, Like there's some excitement there where you watch a guy hold a put to save par or Birdie to sneak in the cut line. Like people want to like gravitate to seeing things that matter. Yeah, and when you just don't have enough opportunity to show the story, then you know there's there's not a lot to give anyone, Um, and you end up seeing a lot of repetition. You see a lot of the same players over and over again, and I just feel like then no one's story is being told. Um, you know, people, let's say you throw someone I'm gonna just I don't want to name any names, but let's say you just get you know players middle of the Range LPGA and you know she's about to make the cut and it's meaningful. Let's say you know her making the cut gives are an opportunity to qualify for a major championship next week. Like that's something that people would for thirty seconds, they would like to hear that. You know the fact that we can't even provide that is not It's not great. It just doesn't give a lot of depth. And that's where we need to do a better job just showing more players more stories like make and that's where we are on tour. I feel like you need to do a better job of like profiling some of our players and like putting some content out there that is not just um, yeah, everyone has a story, doesn't need to necessarily be something insane, right, But I think that if you are just telling other players stories to the fan base, like they can maybe find something that they can relate to, and then they'll root for you and then they'll tune in. Like it's just little stuff. It all kind of falls together when we um when the Honda was in Town and and and West Palm Beach. You came out and we walked around, you know, eighteen holes And do you know when you go to a PGA Tour event, even as a spectator and walking around, does it does it feel like it's a completely different planet than what you guys? And the Honda is a different planet in general, because you know the way they set up the bear trap and I mean, we weren't there for bear trapping, but I've been there for bear trapping. You're not a rookie. When it comes to off course bear trapping, I've had some fun there. But and but that's like an environment that's just it's insane because yes, it's golf, but it's also sheer entertainment. And that's at the end of the day, like we're playing a sport, but we're also supposed to entertain the masses of people. Like that's where the revenue comes from. And we just need to be a little bit more creative in our in our ways of entertaining. Like I would love like to have seen this week they're playing the match play in Vegas. I thought it would have been cool, you know, put everyone on a cart, throw a GoPro on there, get some live feed like stream that on the LPG dot com. You don't even need to like pay much for that. That's relatives. Do you think there would be players that in an effort to try and get the op G a more eyeballs? Do you think there would be players and players that the public knows that want to watch, that would be willing to get miked up, that would be willing to We've tried it. Um, we did do some miking up a couple of years ago. Before COVID. You know, players would ask it's it's tough, I know, because you're like in the moment and you're competing. Um. So I see the catch twenty two and then some girls don't mind it. Some girls mind it very much. Like for me, that would be a liability. I feel like a fine that would be a fine waiting to happen, because like I would slip up and say something on the mic that's like that would be like here, here's a check for five thousand dollars, or right as a check for five thousand dollars, you just drop like four F bombs and you can do they find on the if you're caught, yeah, if they can hear you, yeah, or if someone turns you in for turning. Sometimes people complain for vulgar language or bad contact. I don't know, but but it's it's happened. People have been fine for inappropriate unprofessionalism, and however you want to say, it's usually dis cursing um, which I don't mind because I feel like it adds character and like people can relate to that. Because when your average Joe goes out to play golf, he's not happy with his game. Almost the entire day, so you know, is a club toss and an F bomb or whatever. I am notorious for breaking things like instantly if I lash out, like it happens like once every five years, and it always results in something being broken. I haven't quite figured out a method until like I just stopped it. Like college, I broke a couple of clubs um and it would you know, I actually broke my cell phone in Singapore this year. Hit the bag, didn't realize where I put the phone, shattered it. I didn't even hit it very hard. I was just pissed veal chip and then I got off the course. I'm like, this is this is going to cost me a thousand bucks. I'm in Singapore, my phone is broken. I'm playing bad and my check this one's gonna be like four grand at a quarter of it is going to a new iPhone, Like I'm in the hole. We've heard again going back to this, We've I mean, there have been a lot of you know, because social media now people can tell their stories, there have been a lot of you know articles written. I mean, Danielle talked about this. You know, daniel Kane who I've had on the podcast. She's one of the best players in the world. Danielle doesn't have to worry about money, but she was she she she mentioned, listen, you can go to tournaments and lose money. Oh yeah, that's that's common. And I think that, um, you know, my train of thought on it is going back to the TV. You know, if the product was um allowed girls to have like a higher stock value in them for themselves, like if they were on television more. Um, I think that it makes endorsements more. It makes more sense for companies to want to endorse girls and put logos on them if they are getting something for that, which is add time, television time, you know. Um so, and that I feel like is where it really is a struggle in the LPGA because some girls just don't have sponsors. They don't have any starting money to help them, no support, no support, you know, put the purses aside. Um. If you don't have some cushion to get going for that year, it is really tough to play, Like your your backs against the wall from the beginning. If you were to play a full say you're fully exempt on the LPG tour, you're that would mean you're probably going to play how many times let's say, um, are you including majors, are not including majors, not including major We'll say you get your LPGA Tour card and you've got full status. Is enough events now that I feel like, um, you you're plan about two events to twenty two events and so there you're saying, there are girls on the LPGA tour that are going out that have basically they're they're self funding pretty bare minimum. Yeah, they might have some stuff, but I mean, I don't know people's individual situations with their sponsors, but I mean, you know, it's not uncommon to talk about, hey, this is worth fifteen grand, or this is this logo position is worth twenty dollars and if you only have to let's say you have thirty grand to start the year. I mean, expenses are k caddy every week, flights every week, flights every week, Um, you know, hotels if you're if you're really good, like you stay in a lot of housing, which I did when I first started my first few years, Like I tried to maybe do a third of the year um with people who would offer to have players stay with them, because it seems like one of the things it's way more prevalent on the LPGA tour than the PGA tour is UM families that you know that are at the event, and we have some amazing communities, like the community gets behind the siss and come welcome you into our Like the first one that comes to my mind is Arkansas when we play well, it's northwest Arkansas was formerly Walmart. UM, that community is amazing. I mean I would say at least half of the girls and caddies, UM, we'll stay with people in the community because the course is right there. You know, everyone's got a golf cart and you know, the barbecues. It's it's super communal and they love having us there and we we have some like Dallas is another one. UM. The place we play, the Colony another very similar vibe. Lots of girls stay with families right around the golf course. They love us being there. So that helps UM. But no, in reality, I think that if girls had more to start with UM and and it felt like it was a value for companies to be branded with these women, I think that you know, it allows girls to compete and play and then you know, the purse is the purse and the paychecks are the paychecks. But at least you don't feel like every week that you're not playing, you're absolutely just dying inside financially, because that's not a good feeling. And also, I mean, i've I've talked to girls that have played on the LPG it when before COVID, when there is the Asia Swing, you talked to girls and say, listen, I'd love to go go play those three events in Asia. I just can't afford to go spend the money to go travel to go play Singapore. So we and and those tournaments are great as a player, you know, your air face covered and your hotels covered, but then don't forget you gotta get your caddy there um. And in the COVID years, you know, players had to help supplement those guys hotels because we would all have to be in the hotel because we weren't allowed to stay anywhere other than whatever their official hotel was, and we couldn't room share because of COVID and COVID testing. So you know, you're telling a caddy this hotel, rooms a d and twenty bucks a night, and that's probably even discounted, but you're there seven nights, taxes whatever. That's almost his whole salary for the week just in a hotel. Then if you're not playing great, you know, and you're not and you have taxes from that country and all of your other you know, food expenses like whatever that case may be. You know, yeah, you may look at it and be like, um, if I don't finish at least top half of the field every single week, I don't is it worth it? You know, it's a long trip, um, And that's it's a shame because they're great tournaments. But that's where again, you know, purses in some of these instances really need to go up. Well yeah, I mean when after Scotty Scheffler won the Masters, they posted um of something on social media on his caddy Teddy Scott and Jennifer Cupto was just one an a and just want to make me chevron and yeah, I was leading our money list. And projection is based off of what caddies you know, probably what the percentage Scott Caddy Firs, Scotty Shufflers making more than number one on LPG money list as of um yeah, April five, April thirteen. Whenever the massive ended Listen, we're laughing about this, but there's always the joke that there are there are PGA Tour caddies, where the joke is the caddy made it to Eastlake. Patty would have been one of the players that would have qualified money wise to play at the Tour Championship in Atlanta at Eastlake, the Austin Austin Johnson being one of them. Whoever is winning tour championship with the men that caddy is winning the LPG money list for sure absolutely, Um, but no, and there's some great you know, like I said before, us Open first places up Sey for years, they've been our leading um as far as purse goes the solo first place prize, they've been They've been a front runner for years. Um, Terry Duffie and see Amy, they did it. They've done a great job. You know. Million it was started as million million five too, and I do think this year it's to five, which is crazy, that's like unheard of for us. So obviously it's easy to talk about, you know, the things in the women's game that could change and you know could use you know, investment development. But in two, what do you what do you love about the LPGA Tour? What do you what do you love about playing on the LPGA Tour. I as a golf paris in me. I absolutely love our major venues, Like I love that the direction that that is going, that we're no longer getting like good courses that are maybe like A minus or B plus list golf courses, like we're now getting the A and the A plus. You know, we're playing um Congressional Pine Needles is next week. We're going to Merefield this year, which is incredible. Next year we're playing Baltic Stroll and Pebble Beach. I'm not positive where the Women's British is next year, but I mean that Champions I mean in Houston, you know, see I think is that where we're going first? That was a couple of years. Yeah, but it was moving Chevron somewhere to Houston and it's either going to be Champions Club or there's some talks of some other places. But it's just good to see that we are getting the same courses that the guys are getting because I also think that helps build our brand as well. You know, when you people love watching majors, right, they love they have memories of shots that good or bad, you know, of like even something like we play Carnewski last year. Is that Jean Vanderbilt. Yeah, like you, that will never be forgotten. And when you know, girls go play they can. It's comparable to the men in the sense that, hey, they're just as good playing the same courses. I mean, granted were playing our relative tease, but scores are better. You know. Olympic Um, you guy, I think shot a bit of a better score than web Simpson did to win. And you know, it's it's that's important for us. I think also a lot of you know, when we look at the men's tour, if we look at the major championships, there's always big talk about, as you mentioned, where they're being held, and then when they go back to so let's let's say, when you go back to Shinnecock, right, there have been so many open people. Remember they talk about retief Goosen. I believe that's what the US Open this year and then Brooks you know, they go back to like the previous champions Men's US Open going back to Brookline this year. There's been a tremendous amount of history there, Wryter Cups and things of that nature. And I think you are right. I mean, when when we look at the major championships, certainly on the men's standpoint, and I don't think I would agree with you. I don't think this is the case on the women's there are the story during the course of the week becomes as much about what's going on with the players playing the golf course as it does the golf course. The golf course is always you know, the golf course is always here, so you know, justin Thomas, just one at Southern Hills. But as the the tournament kept going, as the rounds, you know, Thursday, right by the time you get to the weekend, you're able to kind of know which holes on the golf course, which does which part of the design element of that golf course is going to test the player. And I've never thought about that, but a lot of the LPGA stuff, you know, the majors that I have watched, there isn't that history other than what they did out in Palm Springs to where they kept it different and beyond it's the same course every year Palm Springs, and it's it's sad relieving. I mean, there's a lot of factors to that, but that is comparable when you're you know, you're watching Augusta, right, because you're seeing it every year. There's that connection of the history. And but when you have these rotation of major venues, you know for um US Opens and British Opens and PGA Championships, um, it's it is cool to have like something to go back to, like reference points um in time. And I think that's what makes golf like We're eventually going to play Marion, which the men may have outgrown that golf course, but we definitely haven't. There are a lot of venues I feel like that will come back into the rotation for us because the length is not totally the problem, and men's game has gotten so so long that some of the courses they just can't get them long enough anymore. And that is like perfect for us because you know, we're still looking at playing things between sixty six and sixty eight hundred yards, which is great. Like that there that opens up a ballpark of venues Riviera, I mean one of them were playing a US Open there down the road. You know, it's just cool, um. And I'm glad to see that they're taking some just some initiative to like put us on a better platform. I mean, one of the things that a lot of people say about the LPG. They love It's it's the it's very hard for the average golfer who is a fifteen you know, at twenty handicap to relate really to what you know, Rory mcaway does, like Justin Thompson. But the game of the distant, the way the golf courses are set up, and the golf courses on the PGA Tour, specifically in majors. You know, on the men's side, are are are brutal to play right, they are. They are ridiculously you know, they stretch them out, they narrow the fairways, you know, get the greens firm and everything. But when you watch the women's game, I think it is relatable because these swing speeds are similar to a lot of people that play the sport and play programs with guys and a lot of times we're all, you know, approximately within ten to fifteen yards of each other, and it's like that's the that's the game that most people play. Um, you know, unless you're a former athlete or you're extremely strong, like most recreational golfers are not driving the ball three yards in the air. They think they are, and if they are they're driving it off the freaking planet, and otherwise they'd be on tour like or have a chance to be on tour, but they're not. So that's the one thing that I do people I think people do enjoy that you could sit and watch Jin Young Ko, who to me is probably one of the most impressive female golfers, and Nelly is amazing and impressive. But you put them side by side from a sweet a swing speed standpoint, and you know how far they hit it. Nellie does hit it pretty good way. I mean she's effortless but powerful. Jin Young is just the most efficient golfer I think I've ever seen. I mean, doesn't make mistakes, amazing putter, hits every fairway in every green, and you know, she's swinging it probably like she's she's not out there moving the ball three yards. Yeah, when we talk about distance, when we walked around the Honda UM that day, and you know, really really difficult. One of the things that I've talked to so I've said this to so many players on the PGA tour, that one of the comments that you made. You know, I never would have thought about this. We were watching Um the kid I teach garat Kego hits in a long way and it was he was on the back nine, So it was ten eleven, the twelfth hole at um at PJ National bunkers onto the right, and so he hit it in the bunker and he had a fairway bunker shops kind of up against the lip. And I think, if I remember correctly, he hit an eight iron, got it on the green, had a chance for Bertie. And you said that is one of the biggest differences between the men's game and the women's game. And I looked at you, I was like, what are you talking about, like fairway bunkers. If I'm so, you know, the majority of the girls on the LPGA tour were somewhat close to the lip. There isn't we don't have enough speed and power to get the ball to the green. And and also you know, combined with the setup, like let's say you're in that fairway bunker and your next shot is a hundred and seventy yards in. That's a five iron for me, right, um, that maybe a nine iron for Garrett. So they get it over iron for him, get it over the lip. I'm not launching the five iron over the lip like I have to hit a wedge out and then I have to wedge on the green and try and save part. It's just that distance and that, like you said, the launch factors, the span, all that stuff, Like that's a huge gap and it's fascinating. Like I'll sit and watch golf on TV and I'll like, um, a couple of my friends are you know, like kind of little golf nerds will be watching the mostly majors and texting about it and we're like, I can't believe that shot he just hit. And we would joke and be like we'd be chipping outside ways like what over the trees? Like I never look over the trees. I'm looking under the trees every time, like what's my gap to fit to the green? Over? No chance? I mean, that is so funny because there are so many tournaments that we go to on the PGA Tour and listen, I've been lucky enough in my career to work with, you know, some of the best players in the world and players that have, you know, tremendous speed and tremendous power, and there are holes to where you look at the way the holes designed and you know, in the eight years I worked with Brooks and you know, still work with DJ. They'll just go, yeah, we just take it over all that. We just fly it over all the trees on the left and just and that's what makes golf course set difficult, I feel like on the men's game because there's just so much they can eliminate. Now, Like I remember at Bell Reeve when Brooks won um the pgat Bell Reeve, the eighteen pole was, you know, it's a dog leg from right to left. You've got to hit it down there and go that way. And so we get to that hole and you know Brooks at that, you know, he fades everything. And we were looking at all of that and his caddy was like, you know, you could hit a two iron, you could hit your driving iron down there, and maybe you can try and hook the three iron everything. And we were in the practice around and Brooks said, all right, well, let me just see if I can take it over all the trees on the left, which you just you know there's any five guys in the world that can do that. But on the first one he hit it down there and hit bombed it past all the bunkers and fair We got down there and he had a wedge when we got down into the fairway, and and Ricky as caddy, said, Yeah, I mean because you try and draw the three, would you could hit it in one of these bunkers and then you missed the two the driving iron. Now you've got a long shot in. Yeah, just take it over all the trees. How many times of course, Marino are you saying to your caddy? Yeah, we just take it over all the trees. The trees, all of them, totally three yards back into the fairway. Now, women women have mastered the precision game of golf, and men have mastered some combination of power and precision because at the end of the day, okay, like Brooks can do all that, but he still needs to be good inside that hundred yard you know, if you're going to capitalize and make the birdie, you still need to be able to hit these delicate, like kind of very precise shots from one hundred and fifty yards and in because you are going to leave yourself maybe on like awkward angles when you do stuff like that, it's not always going to just be straight in the middle of the fairway. So these guys have figured out how to hit all these shots from the rough, um, get spin and then make the pots. So it's it's different in a lot of ways, but there are cool elements to like both sides of the game. Is the power game in in women's golf a massive, massive topic right now because certainly on the men's game, you know, if you've got speed, if you've got power, you are going to have chances to win golf tops. As you said, the LPGA Tour has historically and every time I go to an LPGA Tour event, I am as you As you mentioned, I am blown away at how precise and how straight the majority of the women that I'm watching hit the golf ball. Yeah, I mean fairy percentages are very high on our tour um and and now it's become you know, girls hair hitting it further and there's not really sacrificing much accuracy. So we've lengthened our courses over the last Like I was started on tour in and we're in two the courses are longer that I know for sure. Um, some of that's equipment related, some of that's just you know, the fitness element. Girls are in better shape. They we all are understanding so much more about golf. BN mechanics that people just hit the ball further. Um. Yeah, it's becoming a little bit more of a topic of conversation of you know, at what point do we lengthen the course so much that it's too much? Or is this is this our new normal? Um? Because on the PGA Tour, when when I'm out there, you know, I would say, now there were more players that are bombing it, then there are players that aren't correct, right, So it's it's normal. You have like less Jim Furiic style golfers. So you you play, you know, you you put a group together on the PGA Tour and you throw you know, Rory dj and John Roman the same group. They're all going to hit the driver in the same spot but kind of the same. Or there are there are there's certain players on the LPGA Tour now distance wise that you play or see the younger players that you see play and see and just say, man, I'm just getting crushed here. Yeah, Lexi, Nelly Maria Fosse just absolutely, I mean, she murders the golf ball. There's I haven't played with her in a group and maybe practice like once or twice, but I've seen her in positions on the golf course and I'll be like, that is just that could be seven yards away from where I'm going to be in iron and you're like, I've that thing on the green. Um, But yeah, I know that there is something that's creeping in for sure. I mean Brooke Henderson, you know, hits it quite a long ways. Um. And I think as these girls get young, and I was actually watching the n C Double A last night the swings on these girls. I was like, oh my gosh, if you took my college swing compared to my swing now, it's laughable how different and horrible my swing was in college relative to like what I've been like to this point in my career. And I see these girls and it's like perfect plane, tiny little high draws, like the shot tracer is just unbelievable. And I'm like, they're going to come on tour and just you know, they'll be ready to go. So you're noticing the same thing that we're noticing on the PGA tour now in the in the women's game. You've been out on tour now for a number of years. Um, you're in your early thirties, so you're seeing, you know, a new crop of players are you seeing. You know, coming out of college transition is not being worried about courses, no apprenticeship, not have to get used to winning the whole like um rookie struggles of you know, just those first few years of figuring it out and you know maybe your game is not quite there, you need to work on this, that and the other thing. I don't I see much less of it. I see girls come from college, they come from the j LPGA or the klp G, A through Q school and they're just ready to rock. They're like firing on all cylinders, you know, they're like that girl win this year, and they usually do What do you put that down to? Because I'm trying to figure out, really I'm trying to intellectualize resources and access on on the PGA tour. Seeing that you know Matt Wolfe, Victor hovelnd, Colin Morric. Yeah, they were amazing college players, right. I'll just but that jump from being a great college player you played college golf at Vanderbilt. The jump between being a good college player having success in college and then immediately having that translate on the professional game. We used to see some kind of gap. But why do you think both on the men's and women's side. Now the players are just turning pro, they're coming out, is it. I see a lot more players having opportunities to play in PGA Tour and LPGA Tour events. Um, you know, it used to just be um for us. It was Chevron that was like the highlight it was at amateur. You know, there would be like five or six girls, some of the top college amateur players. They would get a spot in and they would play like once a year in a major. Now I see it a lot more where girls are getting you know, sponsor invites a few of them throughout the year they're playing, whether it's Semetric or LPG. They're getting a lot more experience without the the i'm a professional golfer yet experience, which is a big difference. Um. You know, I didn't play in my first professional golf tournament until I was a professional golfer. And you know, and you're playing that's your now your livelihood, So that that I think has changed. I mean, access to everything has changed. You know, we didn't grow up playing golf with track man and and the correct training like I wasn't until my last year of college that we actually knew what tp I Certified even really was, and we were we stopped doing like barbel bench press and like dead, you know, squatting with the bar on your back, realizing like we're all like a hundred and ten pounds and like this is not really conducive for golf. But you know, it's just like the re education of like what is success? Right, And you see all these people with these formulas. Yeah, they vary, but a lot of them overlap a lot of the same things, whether it's instruction in fitness, nutrition, you know, all of that. And when you have access to that at an early age, you're just going to get good fast. And when you're good, you know, you have confidence. It's really hard to stop someone from succeeding if they have that confidence in that game. And I think these kids come out feeling pretty confident. So we're talking about winning golf tournaments. Let's I'm always fascinated when I talked to players about the week that they win. Do you notice now that you won twice and recently, you know, a couple of weeks, is there anything that was different that week mentally, physically, emotionally. I'm always trying to figure out because it's that elusive thing that you're trying to get into that state on a regular bay. But I have always said that, you know, the majors that I've been lucky enough to be a part of, I've been a part of seven major championships on the PGA to every single one of those that and I can't every single one of those seven weeks. The player was different that week, and I still you observe it and I can't. I can't touch and feel what it is. Do you feel that as a player totally? I don't. I couldn't give you a real concrete answer as to what that intangible is. But like a couple of weeks ago, um, it was. The week was comfortable for me. Like I was staying with a friend who I had known from childhood. Her and I played golf together growing up in New Jersey. Her husband was the head pro um at the course down the street. I stayed with her. Um, you know, it was really easy, cooked dinner, hang out like very like there's like no stress to that week. So the off course part of it was really really killed. That matters a lot. I think when your off course gets a little too chaotic, I mean, some people thrive on chaos, and like I have noticed sometimes if I'm super stressed, like I still find a way to play well because it's like an outlet. But I think it exhausts you to the point where maybe there's not enough left in the tank at the end of the week because you're dealing with too much crap, like externally. Um, So when you can kind of manage that energy and you feel like you're not putting too much into the prep and too much into like, you know, even something as silly as like how far is your drive? You know? I mean, I stayed home for the Boca tournament, um, because it's like it was like thirty nine forty minutes from my house, and I just couldn't grasp my head around going down there and staying in a hotel. But by the end of the week, I was exhausted because I'm like on the turnpike, you know, battling with people to drive back and forth, and the days became long, and by the weekend and I got off to a hot start and I was there, but I had no gas left in the tank. That's like the kind of stuff where if you can manage, you know, the whole week of just being very I think for me even field, like you know, your input in your output are like the same, and you kind of don't really get too fired up or worked up about anything. Um that I noticed what has been consistent with both times. I mean, and it's and even weeks that I play well Like I noticed that that's like a general theme. Um, comfortability is a big deal, I think. And it's weird because the prior weeks to both wins were like so opposite. You know, I come off will share having a great weekend like snuck in. I was like, oh, my game's feeling good, like I'm going you know, I feel I feel excited going into p V. I didn't know what the course is going to be, like you know, new course. Um it was. It's a cool course, very old old school course. Um. And then you know, I think about Portland's week before I missed the cut by like a mile in Canada, putted horrendously left. I couldn't get out of there fast enough, like flew to Portland's. Had myself a nice weekend like eight you know, got coffees at my favorite shops, like just reset myself, like and spent a lot of time working on my putting and then boom, that was it. First round, I shot like sixty two. But I think it's funny that I don't think that a lot of people realize that so much of what goes into performing on the golf course, he's about what's going on off the golf course, right, Yeah, they matter, you know, they matter. You know, so when you wanted, you know, two thousand eighteen, you you don't play good, but you go out to Portland where you won the tournament. But you live a little bit of kind of like a normal life. You decompressed that you hang out and chill out, and it puts you in a good frame of mind. It's a reset button. And I love and I love the city of Portland, like I mean, there's great places to eat, you know, Like I had always loved that golf course. Um so I think there was a lot of like I was looking forward to being there. I I'm a horrible at being at a place that I don't like to be and playing well, Like it goes hand in hand for me. Like if I'm like, I just don't like this on this whole vibe is like not my jam. It does like it's definitely subconscious, but it does affect my performance, I think because I'm just not like excited to be where I am. It's funny, I mean, we see this all the time on the PGA tour. You'll see guys missed the cut. You'll see him, you know, taking themself. It's not even my game. I'm not even worried about. You'll see them taking their stuff out of the locker room and they'll be saying to their Canada and they're like, I hate this place. I hate the golf course. I don't I don't know why I come back here. And then you have guys that historically Tiger being one of them, the minute they even walk on the grounds. You know, DJs like that at at Riviera, he loves that place right, he's one there before. He just absolutely loves it. And then you know there's certain courses where guys are just like, I don't know why I play here. I never played good here, I'm not coming back here next year. And then they're there, and then they're there. That's me. That's been me at Aviar and I finally like have made the cut the last two years, but prior to that, I missed I think seven in straight cuts. But it's the week before. It was always the week before um And and Chevron, so it's like California. I'm like what, Like why can't I just convince myself to skip this tournament? Like why? But I can't. And I'm there and I'm miserable, and I'm probably gonna miss the cut, probably gonna go in a brewery tour on Saturday and Sunday and then I'll drive over to pomp Springs. Like I got to the point where I resided this, like the fact that I was probably going to miss the cut, and then as soon as I did that, I started making the cut. But like the pressure just dropped and I was like so tired of proving to myself that I had to tackle this golf course. And I was like whatever, it's here, like I'm checking it off the box, like it's it's a start for the year, but like it's probably not gonna be that great. And then I started flying better. You shot sixty six in um In at Palace for a days to win the tournament. Jin Young cos the number one player in the world. She's right there on the back. Nind Lydia co one of the huge stars of the LPGA tour, um what was working that day and how do you as a player or what are the takeaways that you can take away from that to try and get you into that state more often? I think a little bit maturity, you know. When I would be in those positions as a younger player, because they were kind of a little few and far between. To me, I felt like do or die, Like I either need to step up here and like play good and like show myself and show everyone else that like I can do this on a Sunday kind of a deal and it would backfire, you know. Um. But the more that you get in those positions, like you kind of calm down and it's it's gonna happen when it's not going to happen, and some of it's in your control. Some of it's not in your control at all. You know. Other people's performances are absolutely not in your control. And I then I started getting results where I would play really good on Sundays and Okay, I'd come up short, maybe I finished like second or third, but I the confidence for me was like, hey, if fired three under today or if fired four under today, Okay, it wasn't good enough to win, but it makes me feel like I can do that. Um. So when you have that element, you kind of I just I feel like I'm a little bit more relaxed going into that day. Doesn't feel like it's not going to be the end of the world if you don't win. Um. And you know, I actually got off to a kind of a crappy start. I bogie like one of my first three holes and um, and it was a short, easy hole. Don't trust me. I was watching. I was watching, and you bogie bogie early, and I'm like, remember when you do texted me and said, if you didn't have two doubles? Yeah, this is this is this is what, this is what a great high level coach does. I sent I sent you the message after l A. I'm like, you know, you take away the two double bogies and you play, which I think is helping you, and I know in your head you're gone. Yeah, thanks for that. That's great, great insight. I didn't realize that the two double bogies I made today killed my score. Chef. Thanks for that. Um. You said on someday that you didn't watch leaderboards when playing good. When playing good, talk me through that, because yeah, why is that? I am a very um. I feel like I'm a more reactive person than I will give like then I will want to admit to myself. So like, let's say I glance up at the leaderboard and I see like, oh, you're in the lead or you're one back. Like then I start getting like anxious. It's like, okay, let's make more birdies or let's I get way to ahead of the game. I've totally like abandoned playing one shot at a time, and I'm like what are my next five holes? And like what are my birdie opportunities? And like where are maybe the toughest hole is going to be? You know, I'm just now I'm lost. I'm like totally down the road where I don't need to be. So when I don't look um, it forces me to just be present to what I have to do right then and there and again. I can't control what Jinonko is doing. I can't control what Liddy is doing. I can't control what anyone is doing. So to look at that and think that it's going to really change my game plan, I think the only way would backfire is if I would maybe take on unnecessary risk unbeknownst to myself, like on the last hole or two, thinking I need to do something that I don't but I feel like I haven't been in a position that's just not even like me as a player, right, Um, I'm not a huge Like let me go for crazy pins if I know that I can't do it, or if I know that I haven't ever executed that shot, like, I would never just try it in the moment. I would play to whatever my strength is and then if that results in me making a t for pretty great. If it doesn't, it doesn't. But it's like I'm not going to make a bogey or a mistake because I'm trying something I've never tried before in a tournament at like the highest point of the tournament, you know. So I gotta say I'm smart enough to know that that's not something I would try and do. Like I would never go for a part five and two force carry when I'm stretching the limit of my three would, like I just I won't. I know I'm good enough from a hundred yards in that I'll make I can make a Burtie another way. So I think just allowing me to not like change my game plan or my decision making is sometimes like leaderboard watching will make me do something that I wouldn't normally do. Do you do you feel I'm always interested in this as well because as someone that has never played golf at a high level, never had a chance when golf tournament back nine on Sunday in that tournament in California, do you feel and know you're in the mix? You feel like, what does that feel like? Physically and mentally like heightened? You're just like everything's kind of just like a touch more like sensory overload. I feel like you're very like aware of like every little thing that you're doing, and um, you're just kind of like a touch zoned out, like you're there, but you're not there. I noticed, like I and you know, when I played in Portland, um Stacy's caddy, Travis um was cattying for me. He was feeling because she had either just had cha me or was about to give birth. And he helped me for the three weeks and that was our last week together. And him and I chat on the court all the time, like he's funny. You know, we have a similar sense of humor. But man, it got to like that last nine holes in Portland, and I was like in the zone, Like, I don't think we spoke other than the golf shot from like ten through when I was on eighteen and he was like, I need you to chip outsideways and I'm like, but why because I wanted to make a more aggressive and he was like, no, no, no, just trust me. Just hit it straight over here and then we'll hit you know, an eight or seven iron on the green. And so I did that and we're walking up and I'm like, what's going on, you know, like turn score wise, and he's like, well, you have a three shot lead, and so he didn't want me to do something dumb. So it ended up just making a bogie and I won by two or whatever. Um, But yeah, we didn't speak. We didn't talk, like the jokes stopped, like all the stuff that we have been kind of doing because I just was like in my groove and I don't think you need to disrupt that. And I think a really good caddy knows when and when not to disrupt, Like I think if they can sense that their player is maybe anxious or freaked, it's a good time for a caddy to kind of maybe, you know, break the tension. But I think caddies can tell and that that's a good that like, that's a good zone that they're in to not mess with it now that you've one again. And it was probably something that it was. It was a touch unexpected, if I'm being honest, Like it wasn't. It wasn't. And my dad has been joking about it, and he's like, yeah, you're gonna You're gonna win this year, you know, But it's my dad, you know, my parents. You know, they're the most ultimate optimists in the sense, you know, they believe in everything that I do, you know, at a thousand percent. And and I like everything that you and I have been working on my swing. I was like, my game feels so much better than it has in a long time. So it wasn't an unplausible thing for me to think. But I just felt like it had been so long and I hadn't been playing good and so along that I was going to take more time up there for me to you know, get back there, you know, more times in contention, because I really like I haven't been in a while. But it just kind of happened quick and I was like, oh, when I sent you that text message on Saturday night before you played, and I said to you, you know, for all the dumb shit I say, like, you know, don't make any double bogies and you'll play better. I mean, the one thing I said to you on the Saturday night was I think you're ready to win again. But you fundamentally have to believe that. Right your parents, you're caddying everybody around you. But you know, I think that course set up super well for me, much like Portland. Did you know no one was overpowering the par five's, which is a good thing for me because I don't overpower them. So you know, when you've got four par fives and most girls can hit them into, you know, statistically, they're gonna probably be lower on the score on the par fives than than me. Um, it's part I think there are only three par fives in general. Like I my show like par threes and fours. I'm like actually lower scoring average in part fives. So when courses don't have as many part fives, I tend to perform better because I just do better on threes and fours. I think some of it's a distance thing. Um, you know, and I feel like when my irons are on, they're accurate, so I have good birdie looks. Um. Yeah, the course the courses that I've won on have set up well for my game. You appreciate the win. I don't notice it in the moment, but when I look back on it, I'm like, yeah, that does make more sense. You think you appreciate it more now having one having gone through all the things and the struggles that you've gone through. I mean, and everyone has these like ups and downs of their careers, you know, whether it's and I don't want to make like the injury or COVID out to be anything like crazy big, you know, because everyone has their moments. It's rare that I feel like an athlete in any sport goes through their career without injuries setback like it's and if you haven't, God bless you, because that is unbelievable. I mean, it's so rare to not see people, whether they're playing through the injury or not, like it is definitely affecting, you know, how they are performing, um and where they are mentally. So I think I appreciate it now because up until that point, the career had been like on a nice little baby upward trajectory, you know, cap off let's say Solheim Cup, and then things kind of went the opposite direction. Um, So it's nice after you know, let's say two and a half years to see things like swinging back the other way. But everyone has trajectories and there's a lot of ebb and flow. So I'm just I'm a way more thankful now than I was. Probably lastly you mentioned that there was faults about walking away from the game and doing something different. Now one again, it gives you, you know, two year exemption and stuff. What are the goals moving forward and what has the win in your head allowed you to have the opportunity to do. I think, um, the one thing that is still something that I need to tackle and I would and I and I will UM is majors. Like I feel like I haven't put myself in a position in a major that I've put myself in a position in a fair amount of regular tournaments, and I want to see more of that for myself, um, regardless of THEE in the mix, I want to get in the mix and and see what that really feels like on an even bigger plat back nine on Sunday, and you know, on the courses that I love, Like I get out there, I'm like, man, these places are great. I love them. But I think I like put a lot more pressure on myself at that point, and so I need to I need to figure out how to just pump the brakes and just it's not any different than I mean, it is different, but the game plan doesn't need to be different. And sometimes for me, I just get a little worked up. So to mention anxiety too much anxiety, don't break your phone again. That's that's a great story. I'm really excited about the fact that you know, you you've got this kind of I think it's the next phase of your career. And in the three phase, I'm like older, and I just feel like when you're young, you feel you have so much to prove, so much to establish, you know, like, oh, are you you know a good player? Do other players respect you? Know your game and your and who you are as a player. I think I've battled with a little bit of that, Like in my first couple of years, I just wanted I wanted other people to not think that I was just like not you know, like a couple of year tour player. But then you know, and I think, now almost ten years into this, like I don't I don't feel like I have to prove anything to anyone about myself or my game. And that kind of relieves a lot of pressure. I feel like, and you can just go out and play and like the rest is really gravy. Yeah. And I always think that when people have never won on the PGA Tour, the LPGA Tour, the first time you get your first win, it's teams, like, you know, it's it's like the most important thing that's ever happened to you. But I always till you're trying to achieve the second way, But I always think that when a player gets their second win on tour, it's it's so much more. It's validation. It's validation, and it's almost more important than the first. People would be lying if they didn't say that it's not validation because everyone can say to themselves like, oh, are you just like are you just a one hit wonder? You know, did you win that one time? But but are you really capable of winning? And that's a very like not to get too deep into it, but I'm I got to imagine myself included, especially like players probably think that about themselves in their game, like there's some self doubt when yeah, you've won, but are you going to do it again and again? You know, I mean no one's Tiger Woods, but you have a lot of multiple tour winners that are like very incredibly mentally strong, like good players, and then you know there's the people in between, and I think there's always that struggle of like, you know, am I that good? Am I not that good? You know? I think there's a lot of like there's doubt in there. So the second one I feel like puts a lot of people's personal doubt and kind of pushes it aside. Does it and has it helped you? Definitely? Yeah? It has. Um. Yeah, I mean there's you just can't like there's no there's no substitute for another win. There isn't there really isn't. Well, I'm excited to see what you do in the major stys um the rest of the year, and we got the US Open coming up, and um, I'm expecting big things. Boy, Thanks for talking to me. So that was Marina Alex And yeah, I'm so so proud of her to come back. She was thinking about it. She said she was thinking about not playing golf. Um, maybe ending her career and to get a win at the stage of her life. UM, it's it's a really really cool story and you know, I'm really really lucky to be a part of it. Uh. So we're at the Women's US Open Pine Needles. Um Anica Swornstand kind of broke through in one here. I saw Anica today and I was joking with her that, you know, there's pictures of Anka hoisting the trophy and and to see kind of you know, where Anka has gone in that journey. Um, I think she is just one of the most amazing players in the game of golf, in the history of the game of golf. So always good to see her. Talked to her today about getting her on the podcast, that she hates doing podcasts, but she said, I'll do it for you. So keep keep on the lookout from maybe an Anka Sworrenstand podcast. So walked around Pine Needles today, very much an old school golf course, really really good looking m visually. UM, pretty generous fairways here. Um. I think it's the weather here this week is supposed to be Um, it's supposed to just stay warm, not a lot of rain. So we were talking today, UM Corey Webb, who's really good friends, UM, kind of a mentor to Marina. She played here and said that, UM, if she had it to do over again, she changed how she went about the practice round. So we were kind of talking about the day. She was saying that the golf course changed so much when she played here from Monday to kind of the weekend, when the golf course really started to get firm, fast and baked out. So she was saying that a lot of the short shots that she was hitting early in the week short game and stuff around the greens, by the time the weekend um happened, she didn't even use any of the shots that she practiced. So Marina and I were talking about that today, UM saying, listen, obviously, right now, you could take a lofted club, lob wedge, sand wedge and try and carry something all the way there. But as the golf course gets firmer, faster, and the approach areas and the greens get kind of baked out, you're going to be hitting, You're going to be putting a lot, You're going to be using a lot of maybe be bumping runs and stuff like that, So we we kind of varied our practice around the greens, hitting a combination of lofted wedges from just off of the greens and then trying to figure out because one of the signatures of a Donald Raw Sculf course is the greens are flat in the middle and then everything runs off, So you can hit a shot in the middle of the green, has a little bit of speed to it from you know, whatever distance, and it will roll off. So there are a lot of areas to where you know, we were down in these kind of low areas to where they're they're kind of low runoff areas and if you're short sided in that situation. We were going down into those spots with Marina and having her hit not not only wedge shots but putting as well, and a lot of times her worst put from just off the green having to go up slope and get it to a short sided pin, her worst put was better than the best wedge shot she was able to hit. Because the grass and the greens they're very very firm, and the approach areas around these these runoff areas around the meanings are really really really tight, their firm and one of the things I find really interesting about the runoff areas here at Pine is you've got the putting surface, and then the greens will slope off, you know sometimes maybe you know, three or four ft down, go to a flat area, a little bit of a flat area, and then start to raise up again, so you could miss the green and be on a down slope, really really tight lie trying to then figure out if you're gonna bounce something into the false front, whether you're going to carry it. Um. We experimented with putting. We experimented with some you know putting with three wood, a hybrid, something like that, and it's funny, it's it's interesting what what certain players um like and what they don't like. Marina just doesn't feel comfortable at all using anything off the green, like a three wood or a hybrid to hit you know, kind of a long pot. She feels more comfortable putting. And so one of the things that we were trying to gauge is trying to gauge the upslope. You know, you're putting from off the green, you've got to go up a pretty steep bank and then down. And I said to her, listen, you want to feel like, when you're in these situations, the tendency, And she said this a couple of times. She said, listen, I don't want to I don't want to hit this put too far past. But I said to her and said, listen, if you don't try and hit it past the whole, you're gonna end up not having enough speed. You're gonna get it up the slope and then it's going to roll down back to your feet and you're gonna have to do it again. So when you're in those situations and you're using a putter from just off of the greens, don't be afraid to make sure that you run it past. And and I think out of the eighteen holes we played today, there were only a very very few instances where she hit too hard of a put and it went five six ft past. A lot of times she was like, oh, that's gotta stop, that's gonna stop. And I said, that's gonna be perfect, and it was. It was. It was, you know, two two feet away from the flag. So I like what they the runoff airs. I like the creativity that this golf course will give the ladies this week. Um, there's plenty of room to drive it off the tea. I mean, there is a lot of rooms. So um, I really believe that it will be the iron game this week that will separate. Um the people have a chance to win on Sunday versus the people that don't. Because there were a lot of holes here that we were walking around to where we were looking at where they were going to put the pins. If they're gonna put two pins in the back, back, left, back right, and then put two pins front left, front right. There were a lot of greens where we would stand on there with with Marina and our caddy and we would look at if you hit every single shot for four days right in the middle of this green, you're really not going to not be able to get to any of the pin position. So um, I get loads of questions every single week about what players are doing in the practice round and and fresh off of just getting back to the hotel from the golf course. Um, that was a lot of what we were doing, like I said, and some golf courses. I was just at Southern Hills for the p g A and it was very very much about what players were going to hit off of the tees. Um, where they're gonna try and hit driver where they're gonna try and hit a two iron, where they're gonna try and hit a hybrid, where they're trying to hit three wood. We saw that um down the stretch, um JT. We saw you know, Mito Pereira, Um, you know, choose to hit driver. Everybody's like, oh, I could have hit three wood, he could have hit a different club. I think this golf course, in this major Championship test will all be about the second shot because there was a lot of room off the tees to hit um driver. Um. There aren't a lot of really really tight um driving holes to where the fairways are very very narrow. So it's not a typical kind of men's set up US Open. UM. Uh. What I think we're going to see when we get to Brookline for the Men's US Open in a couple of weeks, that is going to be old school US Open. A lot of really really tight um t shots, not a lot of landing areas, and then a lot of rough here it's the opposite. There's plenty of room off the team. But then I think what you're gonna have to do as a player this week is try and figure out how aggressive you're going to need to be. And I think what's going to catch a lot of players out is they're going to be going for pins where if they just dumped it into the middle of the green, maybe had a twenty ft or maybe you know, depending on where the pin was, maybe you have a closer shot. But we talked a lot, Marina. I talked a lot today going around the practice round and saying, listen, this is a whole dump it right here in the center you could get to. You have good pots for, you have decent chances for Bertie, for all of these. If you shortside yourself, you're really going to start a long I think if you are going to watch the Women's US Open this week, um, you're going to see players shortside themselves and then what kind of creativity and what kind of ability they have to control the flight, the spin and those things. I'm really excited. Um, this is the first Women's US Open I've been to, believe it or not, since nineteen ninety one, and it was at Colonial where the men played last week. Um for Charles Schwab. But it's really cool to be here. There are so many good golf swings. When you walk up and down. I was walking up and down the range today. Because I don't spend an enormous amount of time on the LPGA tour. There are a lot of players who's whose swings and games that I really really admire and I like, and I never really get to see them in person. I've only really able to get to see them on TV. UM. Later on this afternoon, I was on the driving range and, UM, Jessica Corda and Nellie Corda we're hitting golf balls. To be honest with you, I've never really seen Nellie hit the golf ball in person, and I mean, what an amazing golf swing. Um, the positions Nelly's able to put the golf club. Her sister Jessica another really really really good golf swing. And I was just sitting back as a fan, just standing around and just watching a lot of of the ladies hit shots. UM. I'm excited to be here. I think it's gonna be a really really fun test UM and it's going to be really interesting to see what type of creativity UM the players have to have the ability to try and win this great championship. So I'm really excited to be here and we'll see what happens, and we'll see who wins the women's u S Open of course with Claude Horman comes to you every Wednesday and again SORR one year anniversary. UM. I couldn't do this UM without everybody listening, so thank everybody so much. We're going to continue to get guests and hopefully the next twelve months he is as good as the last twelve months. Thanks everyone for listening and we will see you next week