It's episode thirty seven of Off Course with Claude Horner always comes to you every Wednesday, and this week's guest is an old friend to the podcast. He was on the bonus edition the first week we lost launched the podcast back in June. Dave Phillips, the co founder of the Titlist Performance Institute, but more importantly the coach to the world number one John Ram and H Listen. I'm a huge fan of Dave Phillips and the work that he does. UM. He's a friend, he's a mentor, and I think he's one of the smartest people in golf instruction. Any kind of thing that comes out in golf instruction, if it's a new if it's a new launch monitor, if it's a new video camera, if it's a new kind of swing rage, if it's a new swing theory, equipment, distance, anything, UM, if I want to know anything about it, Dave's first person I called because he's at the forefront. UM. He's as much of a research kind of guy as he is a golf instructor, and I think the work that he's done with John Um and we talked about in the podcast, it really is kind of UM. What the Titlist Performance Institute was all about when they founded their UM movement screening and and got into golf, fitness and listen, John ram Is, he's a hell of a player. And right now as we go into the beginning of the season in two UM, I think he's miles and miles ahead of everybody in the game right now, UM, with the way that he has played, And it will be very interesting in two UM to see if he can continue that. And and Dave has a front row seat, he's part of his team. And UM, I think it's a really really what I wanted to do was, uh, do a really deep dive into um, John rom what it's like working with him, what he does, what makes him such a great player, and and Dave, what's the guy to talk to you? So UM, it's a fascinating listen and it is really really a unique insight into one of the game's best players. So sit back and enjoy listening to Dave Phillips. My guest is Dave Phillips, the co founder of The Proudest Performances to Dave. You are on the podcast right when we started talking about Phil Nicholson and all the crazy stuff he did at the PJA Championship. But I figured, seeing as you coach the number one ranked player in the world right now, John Rom, I want to kind of take a look and a deep dive into his game because it's just it's fascinating to me how successful he's been able to be. And you guys saw him when he was I believe an amateur. Um he came out to t p I and how did that come about? And that first meeting, what did't you see because John kind of is, wouldn't you say, he's kind of the living embodiment of kind of the t p I etho to where you guys took a look at what his body did, what his body couldn't do, and then basically let him do what he did. And he's become the best player in the game right now, Dave, he's the best player in the game and it's not even close. Well you know that's listen. I mean John, is that there's there's a lot that goes into John Rom, right, and and to to kind of wind back to the first point of your question. You know I used to do some work for the Spanish Golf Federation. I still do, so you know, Greg and I have been in Spain many times doing t p I seminars and the Spanish Golf Federation is great and they actually helped their young players a lot over there. And they said to us, you go, you know, we got a couple of players that are at college in the US. Would you take a look at those for us, you know, every quarter, if we could send them to you. And I was like, of course, I'd love to do that. And one of these guys was John rom So. John had just come over to the University of Arizona and Tim Michelson was actually coaching John, and the Spanish Golf Federation and called and said, Hey, they're gonna be in San Diego for an event. Would you take a look at John for us? And I'm like absolutely. So John comes out. You know, he's got a mishmash of golf clubs and I put him on the range, and you know, he's this big kid, and and you look at him and you're like, okay, and he's just excited. He's wide eyed to be there at our facility, and you know, it's like a lot of young kids are when they come out. And I just started watching him hit balls and and and instantly like the first strike, I remember him hitting just a couple of irons. I was like, well, that's different, you know, the sound was different. And then you already had this short golf swing, you know. His his early coach kind of coached him that as a big guy, he could be a lot more efficient with a shorter back swing. And then I started to notice the little differences, you know, the bowed wrist and some of the things that he was doing, and the way he was moving through the golf ball, and I said, you know, let's let's physically screening, which is what we do. Let's see how you moved. So we took him in the gym, screened him and at the time, he actually failed quite a few tests. One of them was what we call an overhead deep squat, and that's when we discovered the ankle door seflection issue. And he told us about when he was a kid, he had a club foot and he you know, had to have his foot reset. His ankle literally doesn't move his right his right ankle doesn't move, doesn't really move. Now, so explain that Greg a little bit better for people that don't know what door seflection means, because obviously you and I live in this world with the terminology. But for for people that don't know about the body and kind of how it works, what does his body? What does his ankle not do? So basically, you know, if you were to try and squat all the way down and keep your feet pointed straight ahead of you, not allow them to fan out. You know somebody that can do a complete squat. You see babies do this perfectly all the time. They just go straight down their ankle conflex with their legs so that they can sit all the way down. John's can't do that. It's locked in place, so he doesn't have the flection in his ankle. And that's important for loading into the trail foot and moving and using your legs effectively in the golf swing, because you need to load into that right leg and be able to push off of that right leg. And if that ankle was kind of locked in, it really limits a little bit of what or a lot of what you can do from an athletic standpoint. It does so so right away, you know, most people that have a dors reflection issue with the ankle or a locked ankle are gonna have some movement towards the golf ball on the down swing, because as you said, it's difficult to continue their rotation. So immediately I was like, okay, well that's not moving, So how does he go about changing this? So we started look above. So whenever you have a joint that's not functioning, like the ankle, now I got to go to the knee and the hip and make sure those are really good. Right, So we started to move through his body and identify the different things that weren't great. His balance on one side more than the other. And when you have a dors reflection ankle issue on the trail leg his right leg for him, then is he moving into his left side? And what's going on with the left side is that overworking to compensate. So the body is full of compensations. You know, a lot of great athletes have compensations, and some of those compensations are what make them so good, you know, So a lot of times you've got to be careful to change. It's not a matter of fixing. It's a manner in figuring out what the jigsaw puzzle or the Rubik's cube is and then figuring out how to put it back together. For that person, and everybody can learn from that. So all of your listeners can learn from understanding that. You know, you need to build your best golf swing and it should be based on what you can physically do. And if there's a physical restriction, we might be able to fix it. But in John's case, we couldn't. Right. It wasn't like something I can go to the gym and work on this. His ankle was set this way when he was a child, and I can't do much to do that. So now I've got to look at all the other pieces of the puzzle to make sure that it's functioning eckly. And then what we did is we built an amazing team around John. We have, you know, two medical guys, one that travels on tour and one at home, Jimmy you want how he sayessay? And then we have Spencer Tatum, his fitness professional, and together we've built a great team. No different than how you go to Formula one and the pit crew car comes into the and all the guys have got their job. We've all got out job, and how job is to clear the clutter, make that body keep functioning, to allow him to do what he already knows how to do and one of the tp I seminars, I remember you guys were talking about it and Gray Cook, who you know. Gray is one of the elite kind of guys that understands how the body moves. And I think it was somebody that asked, hey, does anybody kind of no can kind of come up with an idea of how the body works? How could you describe the way the body works? And I remember you telling me that, Gray was like, that's super easy. The body is made up of an alternating pattern of stable and mobile joints. Right to your foot, he's a stable joint. What moves your foot is the ankle, Your knee is stable, your hips are mobile, and on up the chain. So what you were saying earlier, anytime we we look at or you guys look at something that is supposed to be stable and it's mobile, or something that's supposed to be moving and be able to move and stable, like you said, you have to look above or below that chain. And I remember years and years ago, I think I met you and Greg in two thousand and four. You guys watched me hits and golf balls. I'm the poster child for lack of internal hip rotation. My hips are supposed to be really, really mobile. They don't. So the only way I can hit golf balls is to kind of fire my chest and then my lower back. My spine at the base of my mind, which should never be mobile, it should be stable, was moving and and your partner Greg Growth Dr Greg Roth said to me, Listen, it's not a question of if you're going to have to have back surgery based off of what your body does. Eventually you're probably going to have to have some sort of corrective surgery because your lower spine is moving a lot. Because your hips don't move and your lower spine isn't supposed to be moving. That's right, you're you know, and this is what you're you know. The listeners can really benefit from, right, So this is when you're in pain. A lot of times, it's not where the problem is. The problem is above or below it. So if I've got back pain, you need to look at your hips, and you need to look at your thoracic spine because if those aren't moving, all the stress goes to the area. So unless you get hit by somebody in your lower back, most of the time you go down with lower back pain from overuse, because the hips a dysfunctioning, especially as we get over So you know, as you get into your fifties and sixties and seventies and you want to continue playing golf. I see lots of people. I'm out here in Palm Springs for the tournament, and there's lots of events, and I see lots of golfers because it's a program that we all know, and a lot of these guys will come up and go, oh, yeah, my backs. You know, I've got sciatica and I've got this, and my god, that does not need to happen, right, And a lot of it is happening because we're in this sedentary lifestyle where we sit a lot, and when you sit, the hip flix and gets short, the glutes get turned off, the hips get tight. So you've got to get up in life, you've got to move right, and you've got to get up and take your walks and take your breaks and get a stand up desk, and you've got to move. And if we stop moving, the blood stuff circulating, and things aren't good. And we don't want to stop moving in life, right. And I remember you and and Greg saying once in a seminar that golfers, a lot of golfers, a lot of people that are listing they're in pain. And I remember you guys both said, listen, golfers aren't football players. They're not getting hurt. There's not They're not running into people, and people aren't running into them. They're standing and swinging a golf club. You shouldn't be in pain. You expect other athletes and other sports that are contact sports, hockey players, basketball players, football players that are that are having that kind of movement to where they're hitting each other. Those type of athletes are in constant pain because of the impact and the trauma. Golfers, we shouldn't be in pain. And and to your point, I mean, if if we look at phil and you know, Philip fifty one years old. I screened him a couple of weeks ago. I mean, he moves incredibly well for fifty one year old. I mean, he has very mobile hips. He's never really been injured, you know. I mean think of the career he's had, in the longevity he has and he's still playing, you know, at a very very high level. And you see, I mean he's taking care of his body. And yet sometimes we may not look as good, and we might overeat, and we might do these things, but it doesn't mean that it should affect your ability to move. Yeah, And the one thing going back to John Romp, when Phil started spending a lot of time with John rom he came out on tour and he was taking thousand dollar bets that John rom was going to be the number one rank player in the world from the time he turned pro. And I think it was Phil it was either two or three years and he was It was at Memphis and Brooks and DJ came back and told me that that Phil was saying, I'll take any bet that this kid is going to be the number one ranked player in the world. And I was sitting there, Dave Rack and my brain going, do you have any idea how many tournaments, how many majors, how many top tens, how many top fives you would have to have to go from no status on the PGA Tour to being the number one ranked player in three And he's done it. I mean, it's it has been unbelievable. So for phill to see that. You mentioned that when you watched him hit golf balls for the first time, the sound was different. And you live in the same world that I am. You've watched Tiger Woods hit golf balls. You've watched Rory McElroy hit golf balls, You've watched Adam Scott, You've watched all of the great players underneath the titlist umbrella, and then all of the great players on tour. So when you watched him hit balls, what did you kind of come up with that You thought, Okay, this is how we could help. This is because most people would look at what was happening with his body and say, Okay, we've got to make changes. We've got to fundamentally change the way he swings the golf club. And if you look at the way people are looking at John Rom's golf screen right now, I mean when you watch him at golf balls, it just doesn't look like he could ever hit the golf ball off line. And to be honest with you, he doesn't hit the golf ball off line. I like the mistakes I watched him make. They're very I mean, probably one of the worst shots I've ever seen John hit in competition was at the US Open this year at Tory Pines. On the back nine. He had a quick low hook. I think it was on maybe eight or nine, one of the par fives. You've got a great break, ended up making birdie. But that's probably the worst shot I've ever seen the guy hit. When I look at John, it's the face is incredibly square of the past, from hiphip to hiphipe, right. And that's a lot to do with the boat rist. I mean, Dustin has a boat risk, Brooks has a boat risk. Everybody actually does this, but some of them do it on the back swing, and the guys that are cup do it on the downswing. Right. Are we saying that everybody should have a boat with Absolutely not. It fits those guys mechanics perfectly to do that. When I first saw John, the strike was amazing. In other words, you look at the divot and the strike and the face was square literally from hiphipe through impact. It was looking at the golf ball and immediately knew that this guy could could be really good. What John didn't know is he didn't know how to use his golf swing. When I first saw him, he actually hit a drawer, right, He didn't hit a fade. Everybody's like, well, he just never hit anything, but this he actually draws the golf ball exceptionally well, and I'm actually right now trying encourage him to bring that into the game a little bit more when he needs it. A lot of it was he didn't understand like we do today with radar and face the path, how to shape shots with what he had, and we really taught him how to do that. So that was more of Okay, move the ball here, do this set up this way, and it was very basic. And you know, I learned a lot of this from your dad, And watching your dad teach is one of the greatest things in the world because he's got this knowledge base of looking at so many golf swings that he'll say one thing that encurposes everything, and to a rookie teacher, they'll be like, oh, that guy doesn't know that much. He just said this one thing, just kind of yeah. And and to me, that is the art of coaching. And I and you know, I've worked my whole life to get to that level. And you know, I'm fifty four years old now and I'm like, I'm kind of there. I'm not quite there yet, but I look at all this technology and all this stuff that's out there, and I'm just using it for me to keep the message simple. And you know, there's so much incredible coaching today, and there's so much great technology available to us, but it's for us the coach, right and and the good coaches take that information and they say the right thing at the right time. And your dad is a genius at that right and you are too. You've become that and I've seen that in you as a coach, and and it is an art of coaching. And and some people will say, well, they don't know that much because they only say this, and I'm like, come on, man, I mean you think we don't do our job. I mean this is what we do. We study everything at t p I. We've got every piece of technology. You've seen it. If it's new, I'm the guy that finds it. I study it, but I don't take it to my player. It's for me to go. If I can find a little bit of an easier way to say the simple thing, then that's all I'm looking for. So in John's case, you mentioned a lot about in a lot of ways. I see John, whereas a lot of people now are looking at what he does, is if it's kind of something knew because they've never you know, the short backswing, the way the golf ball the club works on the down swing. But really, Ben Hogan, Lee Trevino, some of the greatest players of all time did what John does. So when I look at John's golf swing, it's a little bit of honestly, it's kind of a throwback as much as anything, the way that he kind of squares and it's a very very simple way to effectively hit the golf ball straight. Why do you think he's been able to then take what you guys have done, because, I mean a lot of people you can say, Okay, this is but he's taken it. Just I mean, I think he's going to go down as one of the best ball strikers and one of the blessed players of all time. I think John's got a legit chance to get to double digit majors. A lot of guys said that, Brooks has said that you look at players and you say, oh, yeah, this player could win a lot of major championships. But when you look at what John Rome does and you look at how he does it, and you look at the body that he has, I just I just don't see a reason how he doesn't get to ten, eleven, twelve majors. Well, you know a lot of it, you know, honestly, But I think it's it's maturity. And I'm seeing that in John now. I mean he's twenty six years old and uh, you know, he's got a baby and and his family life is amazing. He loves this game. He absolutely has a love for this game. I mean, you know, we were out Monday at the Madison Club that you know, and he shuts sixty and missed two puffs for eagle and it was like a layup, you know, and and then at the end he's like, let's go to the range. You remember that shot around the green. I didn't quite get that. Let's go work on that. So he just loves it. I mean, he's been out there all day. He signs autographs, he does this, he does that, and some days he'll come off the golf course and he'll be like, yeah, I'm good, I'm gonna just I'm leaving. I'm done for the day. And I love that about him and that he's he's come. He's got it in his head. He understands that it's work at the right time. It's not work all the time, and and sometimes recovery and stepping back gives you a little bit better perspective. And I see guys grinding on the range. And you know, we've heard the adage that all these guys work hard, all these guys are focused. You don't. You don't wake up and go, geez, I'm not focused today, and everybody is focused. But it's it's really what what John's becoming now. And he understands what his game can do, and it's just becoming mature and letting it come, don't force it. And I think in some cases, I mean last year, we had an incredible year. Obviously had his first major championship, but if you think about it, I mean we had I think we had like twelve or thirteen top ten ten finishes, you know, so it might have even been more. But when you when you look at how many times he's giving himself a chance to be there, that's what you have to do. Just keep giving yourself a chance. And there's gonna be those weeks when you're you're the guy that nobody can catch. There are great players out here right now, and you know, the level has risen to a whole another partly driven by Tiger, partly driven by great coaching. But now every week, you know in the field, I mean, we've got Patrick Candle, We've got Mark how We've got Justin Thomas, We've got Brooks, We've got Dustin, We've got there's there's a solid group that if they're on that week, they're probably gonna win or they're gonna have a chance with nine holes to go. And John's one of those guys, right Yeah. And the other thing that in talking to his caddy, Adam hayes Or, I think Adam has done a fantastic job and working with But Adam was saying to us that John likes to do a ton of his work prep wise for tournaments at home, so that when he comes to the tournament he doesn't have to stand on the driving range and hit thousands of golf balls. He doesn't have to grind at the tournament. He can come to the tournament with the focus of listen, I'm coming here to be as fresh as I possibly can, to have my mind decluttered, and so that he Adam was saying, their focus is hyper hyper about where's the tech, where's the where's the pins, what's the strategy? And he isn't in panic or search mode while he's at a tournament. Never never that way with John, And honestly, I only come to events to watch him play. I don't even go on the range most of the time. I mean, if if he asked me something, We've done our prep work prior to coming. We've got a plan for every event, and I like to just come and see if the plan is working so that I can modify it when we go home. It's not a matter of trying to fix it out here. It's it's you know that, it's just if they're thinking technical swing, it's very difficult. These guys are too good. You need to let it happen. If you, you know, any great athlete will say this. Michael Jordan will say it, Michael Phelps will say Kobe Bryant would say it. All of these great athletes would say. I work hard at home in practice so that I can just go play. And and that's that's the game at this level. If you're working on it like crazy at the event, you're probably not there. What are some of the things that John does in his golf swing that people because obviously everybody looks at players on TV, other players look at the great players and say, Okay, I'm going to try and emulate that. I think it's a dangerous one to really think that you could go super super short, laid off with that left wrist really really bowed. Because if you haven't seen John up close in person, he's a big person. He's a large unit. He's a big guy, right, So his ability to move and the way he moved, But what are some of the things that he can that that he does that people can say, Okay, maybe I could take some of that and apply it to my game and it could help me play better. It's a great question. So I would say that people are fixated too much with the plane and the path of a golf club and moving the golf club right, and they should be way more focused on their lower body and how their lower body works. And if you look at John, he's got one of the greatest lower bodies I think in the game today. He's strong, he's stable, it moves. Look at how he loads into his trail leg, Look how he shifts and moves into his lead side. And if you want to generate speed or power in your golf swing, you have to have a lower body power we know comes from the ground. If you lift your feet off the ground and try and swing a golf club, you wouldn't be able to do it. You have to have the ground interaction to do that. And we know that from looking at force and pressure and so on and so forth. But you know, loading correctly, not being static. There's a lot of players that are, hey, I'm going to stabilize my lower body and I'm gonna rotate my upper body and create this X factor and all that stuff. To me, for the average guy, that's the worst thing in the world. You know. I think that the lower body should be active, and and just think back to other sports that you're trying to, you know, move something with speed, if you were going to throw something, if you're going to swing a baseball bat. Look at those athletes and what they do. They don't anchor their lower body down and not move it. It moves. Look at any great bull strikes lower body, and look at John's if you want to learn something about him, I would emulate what his lower body does. Yeah, and then because his lower body works so efficiently, as you said, and it's something that you and I talked to players a lot about when that lower body gets unstable in the golf swing, going back to what we were talking about earlier with Gray Cook, in the stable mobile pattern through impact. Ideally the club face and the hands in the arms. For a lot of the best players in the world are very very passive and very very stable because the lower body is able to rotate and move in the right pattern and is that lower body is very very functional and moving and stable. They can square the face and not have to do a lot with their hands, where the average golfer, that lower body gets kind of all over the place. That lower body weight goes to the toes, the hips don't rotate, then the chest can't rotate, and then the club based has to go and be super super active because the body isn't moving exactly exactly. So, you know, I think when when people look at you know, the things that we work on now with John are you know, I look at his feet. We've changed his shoes. You'll see him wearing different shoes this year than he did. And that was you and I talked about that. We had breakfast a couple of weeks ago. Talk to me about the shoe thing. Because he switched manufacturers. He went from Audi doss to callaway and the shoe was a big, big change. You wouldn't think that would be important, but you knowing kind of what his body can and can't do, that was kind of a red flag for you when you were looking at what his shoes are doing. Well, Yeah, and I wanted to take a deeper dive there, because you know, when you look at somebody as good at bull striker as John. There's a couple of golf courses out there, one which has our first made to the Monster's coming up, that have a lot of downhill, uphill, side hill lies. There's a lot of undulation there and I look at a player like him that how solid his foundation is. And I saw last year and even the year before there was a couple of holes there that caused him some grief. And that that is the eighth hole standing on the second shot where you're uphill trying to hit a drawer for a bry that fades it and he doesn't like that shot. And then there's a couple of downhill shots on the back nine that that you know, if if it's a little bit wet or there's some dew on the ground in the morning and I've seen him slip. I've seen him slip and hit. Most of John's bad shots come from slip. He used the ground so effectively that if the if, the if, the ground interaction that there he could slide. And I was just looking at the shoe and I'm like, I think the shoes a little bit too unstable that you're wearing, and I think we need to address this. So this offseason we addressed that with his shoe manufacturer. We looked at a couple of things with that ankle to make sure it supports it, and then we really went into a deep dive on what what could we put him in that gave him just a little bit more support in those situations where he's got uphill, downhill, side hill and so on and so forth. And so that's just a little one of those little tiny things. It's like putting a Formula one drive and knows that the right tire is going down a little bit and he's losing some you know, pressure in the corners. I look at the same way with elite level golfer. So we we looked hard at the shoe and change the shoe. He's one of those unique players, Dave where it just doesn't seem like there's a golf course or a tournament that doesn't set up well for him based off of what his skill set is and what his ability to do. I mean, he's an incredible driver of the golf ball. He hits the golf ball, you know, as far as he needs to. He's in he's in the upper I'd say five of what's going on with distance. He's an elite iron player. I think his short game is very very underrated, and he's an unbelievable pressure putter. So you put all of that together and it makes it very very difficult. I think for the other guys on tour. If John's in the on the leaderboard, which he is basically every week, you know that you're probably going to have to do something special. And we have seen so few of the great athletes in golf who were like that. Jack was like that, Ben Hogan was like that, Lee Trevino was like in the modern game Tiger. DJ has had runs where he's like that Rory, and he's now put himself in that cat a glory of players that everybody else on tour is looking and if he's in the rear view mirror, you're going to expect him at some point to have an opportunity to pass you. Yeah, I mean, I I agree. I mean, right now it's about as good as I've seen it um in a long time. It's really good right now, And and he feels really comfortable, and he's just starting to make the right decisions. And you know, if he's hitting a bad shot, it's really you know, at his level right now, with the strike he's got, it's probably more it's a hole that doesn't quite set up, or he's not quite committed to the shot, because he just doesn't hit it that bad. He doesn't hit anything that bad. And you know, if if we do have anything that's a little bit sometimes he'll catch it a little bit in the heel, and that's usually because he's trying to force a cut instead of just release it and hit his natural cut. So other than that, there's really not much wrong. So and and but as as you know, the cliche and golf is they always said that a shank is right next door to a re the really good shot. And if I look at the ball strikers, and I've been lucky enough to be around the majority of the great ball strikers. I mean, I look at you know, the guys that I've worked with, you know, Brooks currently DJ. If they're gonna miss it, they'd much rather miss it more in the heel then they would want to miss it on the toe, where the average golfer tends to have that wear mark out on the toe. I think if if if you're listening and you go and look at your irons, you're going to kind of put him in the sun. You're gonna see that little discoloration out on the toe where where good players tend to miss it more in the heel. Yes, you're absolutely right, and that's that's partly Ducau's path. So good players tend to, if anything, they get it to shallow. They very rarely get steep, you know. And when you know, John will sometimes complain of being a little bit steep, and that's usually because he's shallow early and steepens it too late. Right, So, but better players tend to do that. They tend to I'd rather have a player shallow it early and steep and it late, then be steep and then try and shallow it, which is what yeah, for sure, And I think that's that's a huge huge part of what makes him great. Talk to me Dave about his mental frame of mind because he just came out. We continue to talk about this. We shouldn't at this point in be surprised that someone is coming from college and comes out on tour and wins early, and comes out on tour and then has the the ability and the opportunities to win majors and contended majors, because we're seeing that on a regular basis. The mental side of things, because when he came out, he I think he rubbed some people maybe the wrong way because he was incredibly cocky. But what you've seen is you know the old Landi Watkins, You know you LANDI used to say, Hey, it's not bragging if you can back it up. You know, it's not being cocky if you can back it up. There are a lot of people that have a lot of swag and you look at them and you're like, yeah, you've got a pretty pretty inflated opinion of yourself having never won a golf tour. But John came out and you could tell that he had this kind of mental strength. He looked like he was confident, He looked like he felt like he belonged. And you and I have talked about this, but I think we're seeing a massive, massive uptake of the US college golf system. John went to Arizona State. He dominated, He was a great player, and his mental frame of mind, I think, to me is as good as anyone in the game right now. Yeah, it is. And to your point, I mean, I think some of the top you know, college golf teams and and the kids coming out of college today, let's face it. I mean, the facilities are amazing, the coaching is amazing, and if they're fortunate to be a school that has a biomechanics lab or a mental you know, like Arizona State does with Dr Debbie Cruz, there's some incredible research. If if their coaches are open to the rest of the school, there are a lot of very smart people that have time to look at things that a lot of us in daily life don't look at. So there really is incredible opportunity at the top golf schools for those players that make those teams to come out and compete right away. In John's case, it's really just putting all the pieces together right. So the more you're elevated becoming number one in the world. Winning a major, the more expectation there is of you, and the bigger the targeter is on your back, because you know, you've seen this with DJ. Everybody's trying to come get you, and and that galvanizes you. And you can go two ways, like you you can actually get you know, let that bother you, or you can take it and relax and realize that I'm already there. And I think, you know, John maybe felt that a little bit right after the US Open and kind of felt like there was a lot of expectation on him. And I think it's been a great off season where we just shut it down. I mean it literally did not touch a golf club for six weeks going into Hawaii, nothing, and and and if you think about how well he still played at Hawaii and and really didn't touch a golf club, it shows his mental strength of going. You know, I just needed to let this relax and know that I'm already in a place. I don't have to do anything else. I'm already here. Everybody else has got to get to my level, and if they do, I'll move it to another level. And that's the danger when you do something good is you're always trying to do that little extra. I gotta work harder to stay here. I gotta work harder, But sometimes you don't. You know, sometimes you do, but sometimes you don't. I think the great golfers and the great athletes all have a great understanding as to what their potential they're, how good they are, and their greatness. And I think that is one of the things you and I have talked about this many times that a lot of people that are trying maybe to get ontour or trying to get to that next level as junior, they have that kind of fear that if they play bad, they're going They've lost it. It's gone again. And I think one of the strengths in the in the time that i've you know, the decade that I've been around Dustin Johnson, I think we're just now people are starting. You and I, people around the game knew it, but it always kind of looked like DJ was maybe a little bit aloof that, maybe he didn't care that, maybe it didn't matter that much to him because of the attitude that he has. And when he went on that run in and won the Masters and won the FedEx, people started thinking that ability to not fear that it's going to be lost, that I'm that I've lost it again. Oh my gosh, I'm not going to play well again. I think all the great golfers know that they're good, and I think that is part and parcel to becoming a great golfer and becoming your great champion is you need to think that you're the best player in the game. Um And you know John certainly does. When DJ is playing his best, he believes that he is the best player in the game. Rory McElroy when he's at at the height of his powers. And you know, I spent almost a decade with Tiger Woods. Tiger always believed that if he played his best, he expected to win. When he came out on tour that famous Curtis Strange interview, how you know you'll learn I can win with my B game. I didn't have my great But now looking back on that, you realized that that is such a massive, massive strength. And I don't think it comes from a sense dab of being egotistical or overconfident. I think it comes from an understanding. I remember asking Tiger when he went on that Tiger Slam. We went out and played in Vegas, and like November when there was an off season and he'd won everything that he'd won, and everybody was saying it was the greatest golf anybody had ever seen. It was just the two of us. Hey, let's go play nine holes. We went out and played nine holes. It was late in November in Vegas. The son's going down and I said to him, surely you must realize you're the best player on the planet and you're better than everybody else. And I'll never forget he said to me. He said, you know, I never think like that, but I do think that there isn't anybody that is going to outwork me. There isn't anybody that isn't going to be able to handle pressure that better than me. And I don't think there's anybody that wants it more than me. So that mindset can come across as being arrogant and huge ego, but it is a huge asset to have that kind of self confidence. And you and I have seen not only the athletes, but everybody that we've been lucky enough to meet from a business standpoint, it's not like they think they're going to fail. No, And and you know, you're so right there, because I mean, I actually remember having a conversation not too long ago with Michael Phelps and talking to him about swimming, because I love talking to other athletes about what they do to prepare. And you know, he talked about the fact that he worked so hard in practice and was so well prepared that by the time he showed up, he knew that he was gonna win, and everybody else knew, right, And and that's kind of the feeling, you know, when Tiger walks on the range. The guys that are really at the height of what they do, when they walk out there, you can see the other players looking at them, right, I mean, we all start it with Tiger. Everybody was kind of looking down the range. What is he working on? Maybe I should try that thrill? And you know, all of a sudden, you see him with the two teas on the putting green. Now everybody's got the two teas on the putting green, right, and and and they all do that, and and I'm starting as a coach that kind of sits back, and you know, we have a great team. It's not just me. And so that I hate taking credit for John because it's not me. It's it's it's what we've got around him. I'm just I just played my role and I look at it and I like to look from that perspective, and I see the other guys now watching John like I see them watching him in short game and when he's driving the golf ball, stopping what they're doing and watching. And that's what used to happen with Tiger. So he's kind of at that level right now where guys are going, what's he doing over there? You know? Yeah, And I think we've seen eyes on tour. When Rory's hitting golf balls, you notice other players, especially when Rory starts drivers, you notice other players starting to watch him. DJ is one of those players. Brooks has been one of those players right now. I think Colin morrikwer from an iron standpoint, if Colin Morrikow are a guy like Tommy Fleetwood or hitting irons. I mean, I remember last year in Saudi, I was walking, you know, on the range. I was there early on on a Tuesday or Wednesday, and Tommy Fleetwood was hitting golf balls. I sat and watched him hit golf balls for twenty five minutes, but wasn't talking to him, just talk sitting and watching, And I find myself doing that when John's hitting golf balls, and and if he's hitting golf balls, a couple of stalls over you know that sometimes it's hard not to kind of while you're watching someone hit balls, you're kind of looking over the shoulder because he is that type of player. Do you think that his golf swing and some of the things that he's doing, do you think it's something that we're going to see players try and emulate in their game. Uh? And what are the pitfalls and what are the downside of trying to do that? Yeah? I mean I think listen, every everybody has an idol and everybody sees these great players and tries to take pieces from them. And I think that that's fine, and think it's fine to do that, but you have to understand how it fits into your puzzle. Every every player is just a different puzzle to me, and it's just figuring out what button to press. And when I watch guys that are on the corn Ferry Tour that have been there and they don't make it to the PGA Tour, to me, there's some conflict. They even don't either don't believe they're good enough to be out there or they're they're still trying too hard to figure out all the pieces. And in many cases those guys probably need somebody to go in and just shred it all and go just do this, stop messing around, Just do this right. Because when I look out here on tour, I mean I'm in Palm Springs this week. Listen, this this is this is like such an open golf course. There's three golf course is. The weather is absolutely perfect, the conditions are perfect, and there's tons of guys that could win this week. It doesn't actually really showcase somebody like John but um, it doesn't actually showcase his you know, because everybody can do it this week. You gotta get him on a Collies are perfect, the greens are perfect. And that's the one thing I don't think that a lot of people that watch golf realize there are certain golf courses that if you are one of the elite players in the world, you want the golf course, you want the test to be the hardest test. That was the thing that I think that made when Brooks was on that run where he won four out of six majors, he wanted the golf courses he loved it when it was tough. He wanted the golf courses to be difficult. He wanted that pressure to be amped up. He wanted he wanted to be in the semifinals to get to the finals, right, he wanted to be in the in the NFC Championship game. That's what he wants. He wants it tough. And John is one of those players that's in that headspace to where, yes, can he win when you have to shoot absolutely, but he can win when it takes eight to ten under and three over is going to make the cup. But but that that's why Brooks and him is so similar, right, is because they've got a game that can travel anywhere at any time, and they know that it just lets more guys into the field. If a guy gets hot with the putter conditions like does anybody could really win the thing, right Whereas when you look at golf courses like Tory Pines, like the US Open type golf courses. I mean last year the British Open at Sandwich, we were praying for the wind to blow, you know, we were like, it's just come on blow, because that's where a John Rahm can take advantage. He strikes it beautifully. The wind's not going to affect the flight of that golf ball as much as it is other guys. And he knows how to control it when when it dies down and it is what it is. It lets just so many more guys come into the field. Now that that's fine too, but they they really relish it when the conditions are tough. And and that's when you know you've got a player that really owns his game. And there's probably ten of them on tour that can really do that, that can take their game every week to every golf course. And I like my guy's chances because of how many top tens he keeps putting in, how many chances he keeps giving himself. And he listen, he had and what I would consider an average round yesterday still shot six on the par But in these conditions, that was about what I expected him to shoot yesterday, you know, for an average round. You know, Phil Nicholson, We've talked about him. We talked about him when he when he won the p g A and you and I talked about him on the podcast back um last summer. The influence and the the impact that Phil has had on John's game. They both went to Arizona State. Phil has spent in an enormous around amount of time around John. John is spent an enormous amount of time on Phil. You're one of Phil's best friends. You guys all spend time together. What impact and influence do you think Phil has had on John as a player but also as a person. You know, that's a great question. I mean, you know, Phil has done so much, not only for this game, and you know, listen, if he I personally think the guy can still win, like I mean, he just proved, I mean, and if he never does, He's fifty one years only won the PJA Championship. You really, I mean, that's so hard to do, especially against the guy like Brooks that was playing with him, right and and you know, he's at that point in his life where he's done so much, but I still believe there's more to do for him and that he could still compete for as long as he really wants to. I think in John's case, with Phil, Phil challenges John, it gives John a target in turn ms of you know, Tiger is at that level that listen, maybe once in a lifetime, and when we saw Jack Nicholas ben Hogan. I would put Tiger in that category. Phil's probably just below that. I mean forty something wins. We may never see a player that has forty something wins. I mean Tiger out of the equation at eighty something, but forty something wins with the quality of golf that's out there today, that is gonna be really hard to do. I mean, your exempt on the PGA Tour, if you have twenty wins, I'll be shocked at how many people can get twenty wins anymore. You know, there will be a small handful, and there is a small handful mouthlet have had twenty wins. But I think Phil has been a great sounding board for John. It's helped him deal with the world around golf. You know that from the media request what most people don't see. You know, it's not just showing up and playing golf and signing a few autographs. There's so much that these guys are asked to do, and it's managing that and the betting you get, the more you're asked to manage it, and you have to you have to realize that's going to take time away from your practice, and and that's hard for some guys, and Phil has done an exceptional job at that and continues to do so. Um, so John's learned from that. I think John's learned. I mean, there's nobody better with the fans and Phil, I mean, you know, you'll watch him play golf. He didn't play well yesterday and after the round he stood there signing autographs for almost forty minutes, right, I mean, who does that. I don't know any other player that does that, and he does them right, and and then I think I think in many ways their relationship it's it's kind of fun to watch because Phil will throw something and then John fights back. You know, it's like I'm gonna show you, and and it's kind of like this this fight. When I see them together, there's this little bit of a rub with each other. And uh, I think they both have tremendous respect for you. I think on phil side, he looks of John's was like a little brother. That man, this kid is so good, and I think he's almost excited to watch him play. But on the other side, when he teas it up, he wants to beat you on and he wants to show that this old guy can still can still play the game, and and to me, that's the secret for Phil, as Phil has nothing to prove to anybody. I love to see him go play and get back into creating shots and hitting shots, and I think I think he can find it at any time. And to me, he should go out every day and try and shoot fifty eight and if he shoot seventy five or six, who cares. When we look at UM this coming year, I mean obviously, when you're John Ram, you're the number one player in the world, you won your first major last year. I mean he's going to be one of the five guys every single major this year that everybody's going to expect to win. When you look at Augusta, when you look at US Open, is at it opens that m the country Club, claim the country Club, the Open Championship St. Andrew's and then p g A at Southern Hills. How do those golf course? I mean, obviously every golf course sets up well for John because of his skill set in the toolbox he has. But specifically around Augusta around up an old school kind of US Open course like the country Club, the home of golf. St. Andrew's with all of the wind, and then UM Southern Hills. I mean, that's a great, great old school golf course as well. How did the let's just take the Masters to start with. What do you like about his game at Augusta and what do you think he can do well there? I think John's iron game is getting really good. We're really working hard on distance control, and that's the key at Augusta, right, So you know he's drives that. You don't have to drive it exceptionally accurately at Augusta because there's really no rough to speak of most of the times, but you have to put yourself in a position off the tea, which there's no problem for him. He can do that. It's really the quality of the iron. He strikes the aliens really well. We just need to get a little bit better at hitting our spots and then just let it happen and not try any harder. He knows how to play that golf course. He's he's being close. I mean he hasn't played it much. I mean he's only twenty six, so it's not like he's been out there as long as some of these guys are. So it's a learning process every time you go out. They tweaked it a little bit this time around. I know they've made some changes on eleven and some changes on fifteen, but um, but again, I think that it sets up beautifully for John. That's a golf course that has so much. There's so much there. I think every every player that teas it up would just love to win Augusta. And he definitely would, and I think he can do it. I really do. And then p g A. We go to Southern Hills, you know, long golf course. Yeah, long golf course, So Southern Hills. You know, it all depends Now, now we get into weather time, right, so weather time at every major weather can be a factor. But if it's dry and warm, Southern Hills can get boiling hot. The last time I was there, it was more of a June. This time it'll be a little bit earlier, so maybe it won't be quite as hot. But that's a big golf course that, again I think sets up beautifully for John. Brook Lines probably another one that you know I would look at John and Brooks. It's a it's another big golf course. I expect the rough to be thick, lush, you gotta you gotta golf your golf ball there and those two guys can do that, and then St Andrew's is you know, that's probably the one that everybody would want to win at St Andrew's, right, I mean, who wouldn't. It's a hundred and fifty British open at St Andrew's. But you know again, we go there and we're praying for weather Man. We were just like, come on, give me something. I don't want this to be a beautiful, clear, you know, cloudless day at St Andrew's because you want it to show its teeth for everybody. The danger there, as you know, is British opens. You can miss the wrong side of the drawer. I remember those years ago at Merefield when it was blowing. I think Tiger was out there was blowing thirty and raining sideways in the morning and all of a sudden the afternoon it was perfect and then it flapped the next day. It was so you could get on the bad side of the drawer and be messed up there. But I remember at Merefield Um that year where Tiger went out. I was working with Trevor Immelman. He played in the morning that day and just as he got done was when Tiger was going to the range Trevor was going to the range. You could see the bad weather coming in. I mean you could just see it. I mean everybody knew. It looked like Armageddon was going to happen. And I said to Trevor when we were going off the driving range, I said, let's go back to your apartment and and he rented an apartment in North Berwick. I said, we'll sit and watch. I said, you're gonna go up thirty or forty spots by just sitting on the couch because the weather is going to be horrendous. Tiger shot up a million that day. Um, and and you can get caught out by that. When John looks at golf courses like that, like the Open Championship where there's a lot of wind um historically, what is he like about that challenge? Is it the ability to kind of flight it? And he is. I find him to be more creative than people think. Oh yeah, And I think that's just you know, he is a student of the game. I mean, if you if you want to ask John Rahm any question about any tournament at any time, he can tell you who want it. He's got like a photographic memory when it comes to tournaments. He knows who won, what golf course it was, on what they did coming down the stretch. It's amazing. So and I think that's another a big plus for him that he does that and he understands the history of golf and he looks back at old tournaments to watch what happened and how they played those holes, and I think he he can't wait to showcase his game. And I think a lot of that creativity comes from growing up in Spain, you know, with Sevy as your idol, as every kid's idol, and then the next one you've got Jose Marine and then you've got Sergio. If you think of those three players alone and their ability to move and their short game ability and there they're different golf swings and what they the attributes they have. John's just falling in a line of those great players as far as I see, And I mean, he can hit beautiful low sting of two irons. He can hit a drive a ten feet off the ground that goes forever. So you just don't see it here in America because it's not really required. So I just think those are the kinds of things why we were praying for things like that because We're like, we can showcase a whole nother range of what John rom can do. Yeah, And the other part about this, if you look at the other major championships that we talked at, specifically Augusta and the U s Open. The other thing that John has the ability to do, which is so so rare, is he can hit that four iron that just basically goes to the moon and comes straight down, very similar to what Tiger could do. Tiger could hit his flight, his long irons not only low the stinger. Everybody focuses on Tiger stinger. But the one thing that my dad always talks about that Tiger, you know, it was just, you know, the thing that everybody gets fascinated with the Tiger is the stinger. But he can take a three iron and hit it as high as some people can hit a wedge. And I think John is in that category as well as one of those players that four or five three irons. He can hit towering iron shots into these back whole locations to where he needs to have the golf ball land and not spin and just basically come down and stop. So he has all of those tools. What do you think two looks like for for John, I mean, what are what are his goals and and what are kind of the targets that he's got. Yeah, I mean, we sit down and we want to improve upon last year. And you know, so we look at last year ago. It was an amazing year. You won your first major, and you know, the goal always is to win a major. Um. I think in his mind he would like to convert some of those top tens and two wins. I mean, we had a lot of chances and some of them didn't go. And you know, we were in an interesting world. I mean, and unless and nobody knows what would have happened. At Memorial he was leading by six he gets COVID, but that was a week when his ball striking was at a whole other level again and I I just can't see him squandering a six shot lead. So you know, that's one of those that I'm like, okay, but it is what it is, and and it showed his maturity and the way he handled that. I was so proud of him. And people think that was written and scripted. How he did that, that was all John wrong. Nobody told him what to say, Nobody scripted. Here's what you've got to say that all came out of him, right and and I think that just gave him this KMMA from the public that you know, you could feel how people can lift you. And when we got the Tory Pines all along, I mean even coming down the stretch as good as those other guys were playing, and there were three or four that were right there, I just I just knew. I just knew that if he just kept giving himself chances. You know, I was walking with his wife, Kelly, who was very nervous, and I'm like, he's gonna win, He's gonna win. But I just kept telling he's gonna win. And and there's just so much good karma there for him. And and listen, we're going to Tory next week. So it's always different than the out up, but it brings back such good memories for him, and whether he wins or not, it's it's a it's a great golf course for him. So it sets up nice to start the year with what we've got coming right now. And to me, one of the other things that identifies John Rome as one of the best players in the game, it's lost that he changed fourteen clubs in the ball last year. He changed his entire equipment from Taylor made and yes irons, irons are irons, but to be able to change the putter and then the driver ball combination, and he did that, Dave seamlessly. There was never any look that there was an issue, and it just goes to show you that the best players can basically play with anything. They really can. And you know, I think that the minute he changed, he was like, I'm going to figure this out. And there was a few tweets and a few of this and a few of that, and there still are today. There's one or two clubs that we're just trying to figure out. And it's really more for horses, right because you start looking at do we carry the five wood today or do we put the two iron in? Um, I'd like the three wood to do a little bit of this little so they're out of pages tweaked, but the driver, the ions, the wedges have been amazing. The potter change was a huge change, and you know, most people don't realize that he used a thirty seven inch long potter, which you can't just go buy one of those in the store, and it's really long compared with if you look at Patrick Campley that's putting amazing. Is down at like a thirty four inch putter. And again, you know, for for your users out there, you want to get what's comfortable for you. And and I I remember the day when we went to that length putter because he was actually in college and he came to t p I and he was struggling with putting and he goes, I just don't feel comfortable. I feel like with this length putter. He was using a thirty five inch putter. I'm two over the ball and I'm I'm not comfortable. And I go, well, where do you feel most comfortable? And I had this adjustable potter because back then they had the valley pudders, right, I said, take this putta and tell me just keep extending it until you feel comfortable. And he gets it and he got right there, and we get his eyeline and gets right there and I measure it's thirty seven inches. I'm like, let's get you a thirty seven inch potter so we can call up Tim Nicholson and I go, he needs a thirty seven inch potter. They get him a thirty seven inch potter and he's been in the same length ever since, yeah, I did not know that, but that actually makes sense now because if you look at the way he puts, it always looks like his chest he's way more up and his head angle is way more up than a lot of the players that look like they're way more bent over. And that's going to naturally. I would imagine the thirty seven inch putter for him helped the putter naturally swing a little bit more on an arc as opposed to him having to try and do it and manipulate it himself with his hands. It did. And and you know, listen that John's a big guy, so six ft three, and you know a lot of people don't think the more bent over if if there was any struggle, it was that the product might get a little bit outside and and kind of hang on and hold and uh, you know, so I was just trying to get a little bit more flow to the putter and and uh, it's he's just getting better and better, and I'm so excited for him, and and and and again, like I said to you, it's it's a team effort. If you see what spenceritate him, his fitness professional in Arizona does with him in the off weeks and gets that lower body strong and moving. And Jimmy you on the fitness medical professional that works his hips and make sure that he understands the stretches he needs to go before he plays. And we even do foot mobility work and ankle mobility work when we're on the road, and it's just these little tiny things. And and that team is constantly talking. And that's that's one thing I think that's kind of missed as we all have these teams, and there's a lot of people today on some of these teams, and these guys are playing for a lot of money and and to have a team around the player that has a great nucleus and talks together and laughs to gether and and it's not about us, It's about building the sphere of this bubble around John to allow him to go do what he needs to do. Right to me, that's the goal. It's it's that's the goal. And and whoever you are, you know, if you're an amateur or an aspiring young player that wants to be great, I get it. You're not gonna have this team around you. But your team maybe your brother, your dad, your mom. There's lots of people on a team. But but get that nucleus around you what really helps you figure it out because you need help. There's there's too much information out there, and today especially with social media and all the stuff that's being posted. What I'm trying to avoid is all of this bombardment that these guys get. And if you think they don't get it, they do. I mean they've got a lot of the long time. Yeah, and John Cease thinks. I mean he loves watching YouTube videos and sees things that other players and and he'll he'll ask me though, He'll know to go, should I be doing this? You know, I'm like no. Lastly, Um, the titles performance. You and Dr Greg Rose founded that. Um, you know I met you guys early on in two thousand three, two four changed my life. You guys have probably had his biggest influence on me and my career, as as as my father has. How many t p I certified Um people do you guys have now? And where is t p I in two Well, that's you know, that's really uh nice of you to say. I mean, you know, it's it's become an amazing organization. I mean t p I is now. You know, we have over twenty seven thousand t p I certified experts in sixty two countries around the world. We educated ten different languages and and to see the growth. And you know, when I walk out here and guys come up to me and say, hey, I'm t p I, it's been great. And I love what people are doing with the information. I love that they're taking it and making their own and building business out and helping any golfer in every golfer understand this process. And and you know, my message to your you know the people that are listening is if you're struggling with golf, this is a real easy thing. Find go online my TPI dot com, put in your zip code, find a tp I certified expert in your area, and go ask them to give you a physical assessment screen. Find out what's going on in your body. Because it unlocks the keys. It tells you why you're struggling, and it gives you direction. And you know, there's a lot of great coaches out there that are doing this now and I'm just trying to bread that message. So for t p I, we're gonna kind of expand what we do. We've got some great apps coming out and We're really gonna try and push and get We've we've been kind of a B two B where we trained golf professionals, medical professionals and Finnish professionals. But we're gonna start to kind of go more to the consumer, but drive them to experts that they can find to help their game. And I think it's so important today you know, and and listen. Movement is key, right. Movement should be a vital sign when you go to the doctor. You know if there's something with your heart or your pulse rate. But if you can't get out of bed in the morning, or every time you swing a golf club you're in pain. That's movement. So move better to play better, and that that's the key man. And it's not normal to be in pain while you're hitting golf ball. No, you should not be in pain while you're hitting golf ball, exactly. I said. The last thing. I can't let you go without talking about the coffee I had coffee that I had it this morning. I drink when I'm home. I drink it every single day. One of your other business ventures with Bill Nicholson Coffee for Wellness Um. Seriously, it's part of my daily rituals my life. I'm gonna take someone to start doing what you do and take it on the road with me. How's that doing for you, guys? It's staring great. I'm actually uh yeah, I'm so excited about that. It was just kind of a little kind of hobby of mine that became a business and now people are loving it. And we actually have some bites coming out snacks for wellness that are all glute and free elect and free, really good for you that that help you focus. That little snack when you're a little bit hungry or you don't want something that fills you up, but you need something so you know, mid morning mid afternoon is a great little snack. And I think people really love those. And the coffee and the additive and the stuff that we're putting in it, the good stuff is is doing great. So I appreciate you using it and if if you need any let me know. And if people are interested in our coffee, go to Coffee for Wellness or for Wellness dot com and check it out. Well, I'm proud of all the work you're doing. It was nice to see UM a major championship, you know, be part of of of what you're doing. And um, I certainly wouldn't be where I am in my career without you and and and Greg and uh, you know, I'm lucky to call you guys mentors, but also lucky to call you guys friends. So thanks for taking the time and I'll catch up with you next week. We've got about So that was Dave Phillips talking about all things John rom and uh, unique insight to you know, the number one player in the world. If you haven't listened, Dave was part of he was episode number two back in June where he was talking about Phil Nicholson winning the p g A and you know he talked about in the pod there, uh John's relationship with Phil. So um, if you haven't listened to that one, that's a good one to go check it out. Uh questions this week, I thought I would take an scene as we're talking about gen Ron this week. I don't know if you can find it on social media. John was caught on a hot mic on Sunday at the American Express out and the Odam Palm Springs not a fan of the set up last week And if you haven't haven't heard it or seen it, check it out listen. I love it when players get caught on hot mics. I mean, they all do it, and it shows you that they're human. It shows you that they're not robots. But I get a lot of questions from players saying, listen, our golf course is set up for specific players. Why do players play well on specific golf courses and stuff? And I think you dave about that. Where Palm Springs, you've got the number one player in the world, it's a shootout. You've got to shoot super super low. And you would think the best player in the world currently John Rome, that would suit his game. But a really, for lack of a better term, an easy golf course with perfect conditions and perfect greens doesn't always suit the best players. And there are a lot of players that I've worked with in the past when we're looking at their schedule, they will be looking at different golf courses and saying, yes, I've played really really good there. I haven't played really good there. I like the golf course, I don't like the golf course. About four or five years ago, when I was working with Trevor Immelman, who's been on the podcast as well, UM, we were trying to plan his schedule, and he was looking at going out and he started out in the Desert and he played horrendous in the Desert. Um he played horrendous in Palm Springs, and I was talking to him on the phone and he was like, nothing we're working on is working. It's you know, I'm playing terrible. I'm going to go to Tory Pines next week and I'm going to shoot ninety. And I said, Trevor, you will go to Tory Pines next week and play really, really well because it's a really, really hard golf course. It's a ball striker's golf course. You can't fake your way around there. And I said, you've always been an elite ball striker. That's your strength. Palm Springs, maybe Phoenix, easy golf courses, I told him, I said, that doesn't suit your game. Your game is suited to where you know eight to twelve under is going to win, not when under thunder is going to win. And so he was like, oh, that's bullshit. You know, you know I'm not hitting it good. So I went through and looked, and I looked at the places that he normally played well on Tory, played great at Memorial, played decent at Colonial and and that week I think he ended up finishing top inside maybe the top ten that week, and having played horrendous on an easy golf course, he thought he was going to go to Tory Pines and it was one of his best results of the year because the golf course was was more difficult. And then you have players that aren't great accuracy, that aren't great with short game, and and and a set up like Tory Pines, a US Open setup doesn't necessarily suit their game. So when players are looking at courses, yes there's going to be courses that they like if they've won there before, there's a comfort level, but they're looking at kind of what they're that what suits their game. And uh, I remember having a conversation with Brooks one time and we were talking about amending his schedule because he wanted the golf courses to be the hardest. And if you look at kind of what he did and the calling card of of his career, the dominance he has shown in major championships, it's because he liked that test it suited his game. So that's a question that I get all the time. Our golf course is suited to certain players and why the golf courses. Um, why do players go to certain golf course? Why do players have success on on certain golf courses? UM? Really really excited to have Dave talked about John Rahm on the podcast. It's hopefully something that I can continue to do to try and get the coaches of these great players and give you guys kind of a unique insight into what they're doing, how they do it, and why they do it and what makes them such great players. UM, thanks to everybody for listening. It's UM, it's crazy to think that this is episode thirty seven, but Dave Phillips was on episode two and daniel King having just one on the Lady Store, she won their Tournament of Champions on the LPGA Tour. She was on a couple of weeks with my dad. So if you haven't had a chance to take a listen to that one, it's a good one because Danielle is going to continue to win golf tournaments. And again, UM, the goal of this is to try and get players and their coaches and and and talk about what makes them great players. And I thought the one that Danielle did with my dad, butch Harmon was a fantastic listen so um. If you haven't had a chance to check that one out, check it out. Mane, thanks everyone for listening and we will see you next week.