Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.

Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.

Hello and welcome to another episode of The Odd Lots Podcast.

Hello and welcome to another episode of The Odd Lots Podcast.

I'm Joe Wisenthal and I'm Tracy Alloway.

I'm Joe Wisenthal and I'm Tracy Alloway.

Tracy, we talk about investing all the time on the show. We talk about private credit, we talk about hedge funds, we talk about the market itself. But you know, there are like a few of these gigantic institutional players out there. One of them is insurance that like just don't get a lot of attention.

Tracy, we talk about investing all the time on the show. We talk about private credit, we talk about hedge funds, we talk about the market itself. But you know, there are like a few of these gigantic institutional players out there. One of them is insurance that like just don't get a lot of attention.

These huge pools of capital. Yeah, you're right.

These huge pools of capital. Yeah, you're right.

So you know we've talked about we want to talk about insurance more, should probably talk about family offices more. Yeah, Like that's this whole world that I don't think we've ever really explored, but just this massive and booming source of capital. Like what the deal is with those?

So you know we've talked about we want to talk about insurance more, should probably talk about family offices more. Yeah, Like that's this whole world that I don't think we've ever really explored, but just this massive and booming source of capital. Like what the deal is with those?

Yeah? I remember right around the time that I left Hong Kong that was such a big story, especially in Singapore, everyone opening family offices. But there's another category of massive pools of capital that we need to talk.

Yeah? I remember right around the time that I left Hong Kong that was such a big story, especially in Singapore, everyone opening family offices. But there's another category of massive pools of capital that we need to talk.

About absolutely, and that one, of course is endowments. They're huge and they have you know, they're distinct, they're distinct from banks, they're distinct from insurance companies, they have their own funding needs and their own funding profiles and the schedules with which they need to withdraw and disburse their money. And if you're a hedge fund, or if you're anyone else looking for money for your investment, at the end of the line, there's a good chance that, like, at some point, you're going to be knocking on the door of a really big endowment.

About absolutely, and that one, of course is endowments. They're huge and they have you know, they're distinct, they're distinct from banks, they're distinct from insurance companies, they have their own funding needs and their own funding profiles and the schedules with which they need to withdraw and disburse their money. And if you're a hedge fund, or if you're anyone else looking for money for your investment, at the end of the line, there's a good chance that, like, at some point, you're going to be knocking on the door of a really big endowment.

Yeah, So I'm really interested in kind of how that became a thing, because, of course, university endowments nowadays are known for making investments in things like private equity and hedge funds and stuff like that, and I'm curious how all of that began, and then obviously how it's been working out.

Yeah, So I'm really interested in kind of how that became a thing, because, of course, university endowments nowadays are known for making investments in things like private equity and hedge funds and stuff like that, and I'm curious how all of that began, and then obviously how it's been working out.

So, you know what another cool thing, Tracy is, at least when it comes to university endowments. I believe the endowment of my alma mater, University of Texas, is on that I knew that was k Yeah, is on the verge of becoming the biggest university endowment in the country.

So, you know what another cool thing, Tracy is, at least when it comes to university endowments. I believe the endowment of my alma mater, University of Texas, is on that I knew that was k Yeah, is on the verge of becoming the biggest university endowment in the country.

Right, So for years, Harvard was the biggest, right, but it looks like it might be superseded by Joe's College. Congratulations Joe, thank you have you been donating? Is this all you can.

Right, So for years, Harvard was the biggest, right, but it looks like it might be superseded by Joe's College. Congratulations Joe, thank you have you been donating? Is this all you can.

I say, I don't. I've never donated. They have so much money already, they don't need my donation. I probably should. I don't want to talk about how I avoid the calls from my university, and I don't know, I feel a little bad about it.

I say, I don't. I've never donated. They have so much money already, they don't need my donation. I probably should. I don't want to talk about how I avoid the calls from my university, and I don't know, I feel a little bad about it.

I think in this case, well we'll get into why, but maybe it's okay not to donate. Well we'll talk.

I think in this case, well we'll get into why, but maybe it's okay not to donate. Well we'll talk.

I don't really want to talk about it. I don't really you know, And even talking about how big UT is versus I think there's actually like twenty two universities or something served by the Texas Endowment and other things. So I don't even know if it's a true apples to Apple's comparison, because you know, the student body of Texas is so jiganting. Nonetheless, if we're just looking at, Okay, which university endowment is the biggest, at least currently, there's a very good chance it looks like the Texas could eclipse Harvard on that front. So we got to understand what's going on more in endowment world. And then the other thing is not just that Texas has grown and that's great and I love to see it, but that Harvard's performance has been a little bit mediocre in recent years, even compared to just other ivs, the rest of which sort of smaller. The Yale Endowment is sort of famous, actually not necessarily due to its size, but because of its longtime manager's approach to endowment investing. So we got to learn more about what's going on with Harvard and what's how these big institutional pools of capital, how they're performing, and what they're doing.

I don't really want to talk about it. I don't really you know, And even talking about how big UT is versus I think there's actually like twenty two universities or something served by the Texas Endowment and other things. So I don't even know if it's a true apples to Apple's comparison, because you know, the student body of Texas is so jiganting. Nonetheless, if we're just looking at, Okay, which university endowment is the biggest, at least currently, there's a very good chance it looks like the Texas could eclipse Harvard on that front. So we got to understand what's going on more in endowment world. And then the other thing is not just that Texas has grown and that's great and I love to see it, but that Harvard's performance has been a little bit mediocre in recent years, even compared to just other ivs, the rest of which sort of smaller. The Yale Endowment is sort of famous, actually not necessarily due to its size, but because of its longtime manager's approach to endowment investing. So we got to learn more about what's going on with Harvard and what's how these big institutional pools of capital, how they're performing, and what they're doing.

Yeah, it is kind of funny that the Harvard Endowment, which presumably employs a lot of highly paid smart people. I think it was up about nine point six percent in twenty twenty four, that's the preliminary fiscal year. But of course the S and P five hundred is like twenty two percent so far. So yeah, what's going on?

Yeah, it is kind of funny that the Harvard Endowment, which presumably employs a lot of highly paid smart people. I think it was up about nine point six percent in twenty twenty four, that's the preliminary fiscal year. But of course the S and P five hundred is like twenty two percent so far. So yeah, what's going on?

Just hy spy. No, like people will say, oh, you can't really compare. People love to say people love to say you can't compare things. Oh you can't compare hedge funds return to the SMP. You can't compare an endowment funds return to the SMB. Maybe that's true. I don't totally get why anyway, should we learn more?

Just hy spy. No, like people will say, oh, you can't really compare. People love to say people love to say you can't compare things. Oh you can't compare hedge funds return to the SMP. You can't compare an endowment funds return to the SMB. Maybe that's true. I don't totally get why anyway, should we learn more?

Let's do it.

Let's do it.

Well, I'm really excited to say we do have the perfect guest someone here at Bloomberg who I've wanted to speak to on the podcast for a long time. We're going to be speaking with Janet Lauren, higher education finance reporter for Bloomberg. Janet, thank you so much for coming on odd Laws.

Well, I'm really excited to say we do have the perfect guest someone here at Bloomberg who I've wanted to speak to on the podcast for a long time. We're going to be speaking with Janet Lauren, higher education finance reporter for Bloomberg. Janet, thank you so much for coming on odd Laws.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for having me.

How do you get to be the higher ed finance reporter of Bloomberg? And also, it's like we just have one, Like, what's the deal there? These institutions are so important. We probably have, you know, twenty people covering hedge funds. We just have a higher education finance reporter.

How do you get to be the higher ed finance reporter of Bloomberg? And also, it's like we just have one, Like, what's the deal there? These institutions are so important. We probably have, you know, twenty people covering hedge funds. We just have a higher education finance reporter.

Well, I've been writing about university finances for almost seventeen years here at Bloomberg. And it's not just endowments, but I used to write a lot about student loans back when they were only about a trillion dollars in outstanding debt and college admissions and endowments, and it's just a fun job and there's a lot of money involved, and there's a lot of nuance that most people have no idea about. And it's thrilled to talk about Harvard as well as the University of Texas. It has an amazing story.

Well, I've been writing about university finances for almost seventeen years here at Bloomberg. And it's not just endowments, but I used to write a lot about student loans back when they were only about a trillion dollars in outstanding debt and college admissions and endowments, and it's just a fun job and there's a lot of money involved, and there's a lot of nuance that most people have no idea about. And it's thrilled to talk about Harvard as well as the University of Texas. It has an amazing story.

Okay, so talk to us a little bit more about how significant the space is, Like, how much money are we actually talking about?

Okay, so talk to us a little bit more about how significant the space is, Like, how much money are we actually talking about?

Off the top of my head, I mean, we're talking about several hundred billion dollars the universe is. You know, there aren't too many college endowments that have over a billion. Maybe it's around fifty. I can get you the exact number, but there certainly aren't that many the size of Harvard and Yale and the University of Texas and Harvard, I included many stories. Is the oldest and richest university. You know, it goes back to the sixteen hundreds, and Harvard was actually found, you know, through a donation and as you know, donors, alumni, rich people in Boston gave them money over hundreds of years. You know about that thing called compounding interests.

Off the top of my head, I mean, we're talking about several hundred billion dollars the universe is. You know, there aren't too many college endowments that have over a billion. Maybe it's around fifty. I can get you the exact number, but there certainly aren't that many the size of Harvard and Yale and the University of Texas and Harvard, I included many stories. Is the oldest and richest university. You know, it goes back to the sixteen hundreds, and Harvard was actually found, you know, through a donation and as you know, donors, alumni, rich people in Boston gave them money over hundreds of years. You know about that thing called compounding interests.

Yeah, imagine if you just bought spy on sixteen hundred. Sorry.

Yeah, imagine if you just bought spy on sixteen hundred. Sorry.

So that has certainly helped them. But in the nineteen sixties college endowment started doing something different. Instead of having a traditional sixty forty split, you know, with a lot of plain vanilla type US equities bonds, they pursued a different model. In the Ford Foundation actually presented this strategy in schools like Harvard and Yale started using it because their time horizon is literally in the hundreds of years, so they liquidity for them is okay because you know, they have a very long term horizon. So they started moving things into liquid assets over time, private equity, hedge funds, you know, eventually venture capital, real estate, you know, now private credit. But at the time that was a pretty new strategy. Harvard and Yale did things a little bit differently. So Harvard started Harvard Management Company, which runs down and is fifty years old this year. They actually operate not in Cambridge but in downtown Boston in the Federal Reserve building. It's actually very close to our Bloomberg office in Boston, and they employed traders and it was, you know, over two hundred people working there. They were extremely good at their job. Their strategy was literally the envy of the world. They made a ton of money. A guy by the name of Jack Meyer ran the fund, and there was some outcry by a group of alumni and people who thought they were their managers were being paid too much because they just consistently exceeded the market. And one year there was a manager trying to remember, paid thirty five million dollars and people were just aghast at that because they made too much money. So after a lot of critics, long story short, that model was disbanded. Jack left in two thousand and five. They went through a succession of managers, seven CEOs of the Harvard Management Company. Some only stayed a short term. There were two less than two years, several interims, changing strategies, selling off assets. You know, for a while they were big into agriculture and real assets. Those perform well, but then they didn't perform well. And the current CEO has been there since December twenty sixteen. He eventually sold a lot of those natural resources. You know, I think, writing off like a billion dollars and you know, change of strategy. Not at the greatest time. They didn't have a lot of private equity, and they've ramped that up now.

So that has certainly helped them. But in the nineteen sixties college endowment started doing something different. Instead of having a traditional sixty forty split, you know, with a lot of plain vanilla type US equities bonds, they pursued a different model. In the Ford Foundation actually presented this strategy in schools like Harvard and Yale started using it because their time horizon is literally in the hundreds of years, so they liquidity for them is okay because you know, they have a very long term horizon. So they started moving things into liquid assets over time, private equity, hedge funds, you know, eventually venture capital, real estate, you know, now private credit. But at the time that was a pretty new strategy. Harvard and Yale did things a little bit differently. So Harvard started Harvard Management Company, which runs down and is fifty years old this year. They actually operate not in Cambridge but in downtown Boston in the Federal Reserve building. It's actually very close to our Bloomberg office in Boston, and they employed traders and it was, you know, over two hundred people working there. They were extremely good at their job. Their strategy was literally the envy of the world. They made a ton of money. A guy by the name of Jack Meyer ran the fund, and there was some outcry by a group of alumni and people who thought they were their managers were being paid too much because they just consistently exceeded the market. And one year there was a manager trying to remember, paid thirty five million dollars and people were just aghast at that because they made too much money. So after a lot of critics, long story short, that model was disbanded. Jack left in two thousand and five. They went through a succession of managers, seven CEOs of the Harvard Management Company. Some only stayed a short term. There were two less than two years, several interims, changing strategies, selling off assets. You know, for a while they were big into agriculture and real assets. Those perform well, but then they didn't perform well. And the current CEO has been there since December twenty sixteen. He eventually sold a lot of those natural resources. You know, I think, writing off like a billion dollars and you know, change of strategy. Not at the greatest time. They didn't have a lot of private equity, and they've ramped that up now.

That was a great potted history of Harvard's endowment. I ought to say, Joe, I started rewatching. Did you ever watch The Gilmore Girls? Probably not, No, I never did. I started rewatching Gilmore Girls.

That was a great potted history of Harvard's endowment. I ought to say, Joe, I started rewatching. Did you ever watch The Gilmore Girls? Probably not, No, I never did. I started rewatching Gilmore Girls.

And so are you going to tie this in?

And so are you going to tie this in?

Well, so it's all about rich people in Boston basically, and one of the main characters has to decide between Harvard and Yale. She eventually goes to Yale. I guess she was lured by the performance of the endowment.

Well, so it's all about rich people in Boston basically, and one of the main characters has to decide between Harvard and Yale. She eventually goes to Yale. I guess she was lured by the performance of the endowment.

So, Jenny, you gave us the broad history of Harvard's endowment, and I want to talk about actually like what happened in those years from like how you have one stable management company that goes all the way to two thousand and five more or less, and then you run through I think, what'd you say, like seven CEOs since then or something, and then Tracy mentioned the Yale endowment with their famous endowment manager for several years. David Swinton, can you talk about like the sort of compare and contrast between the strategic volatility and I'm not even talking about price volatility, but the strategic management volatility of Harvard versus the Yale model that I think David wrote a whole book about.

So, Jenny, you gave us the broad history of Harvard's endowment, and I want to talk about actually like what happened in those years from like how you have one stable management company that goes all the way to two thousand and five more or less, and then you run through I think, what'd you say, like seven CEOs since then or something, and then Tracy mentioned the Yale endowment with their famous endowment manager for several years. David Swinton, can you talk about like the sort of compare and contrast between the strategic volatility and I'm not even talking about price volatility, but the strategic management volatility of Harvard versus the Yale model that I think David wrote a whole book about.

So, Harvard management company files a tax return and because of their nonprofit status, they have to disclose how much they pay their top p people. And Yale the Investment Office is part of Yale University. They employ outside managers and they have a much smaller number of employees and only a handful of listed in the tax return. And because they're using outside managers, you know, you think of the two and twenty model, that's not showing up in the tax return, whereas Harvard, you know, you could see how much they were getting paid, and people read that and it was a big deal how much they were getting paid. And you know, that's really a simple explanation of why Harvard's manager's got so much more scrutiny.

So, Harvard management company files a tax return and because of their nonprofit status, they have to disclose how much they pay their top p people. And Yale the Investment Office is part of Yale University. They employ outside managers and they have a much smaller number of employees and only a handful of listed in the tax return. And because they're using outside managers, you know, you think of the two and twenty model, that's not showing up in the tax return, whereas Harvard, you know, you could see how much they were getting paid, and people read that and it was a big deal how much they were getting paid. And you know, that's really a simple explanation of why Harvard's manager's got so much more scrutiny.

So you talked about the criticism of you know, how much they're getting paid. What's the benchmark for Harvard's performance, Like, what are they actually comparing themselves to?

So you talked about the criticism of you know, how much they're getting paid. What's the benchmark for Harvard's performance, Like, what are they actually comparing themselves to?

Well, many endowments create their own benchmark, surprise, so I don't know, you know, they come up with it. And one of the big criticisms of Harvard's pay was the managers who did extremely well in their own asset class would get paid base on their own performance, not the overall performance of the endowment. So if they had a middling return, which they have, some of these managers still got paid quite a lot of money.

Well, many endowments create their own benchmark, surprise, so I don't know, you know, they come up with it. And one of the big criticisms of Harvard's pay was the managers who did extremely well in their own asset class would get paid base on their own performance, not the overall performance of the endowment. So if they had a middling return, which they have, some of these managers still got paid quite a lot of money.

Well, then let me ask you another question. Let's say, Okay, we don't really know what the benchmark is. So you wrote this piece for Bloomberg a few weeks ago talking about like issues and the performance.

Well, then let me ask you another question. Let's say, Okay, we don't really know what the benchmark is. So you wrote this piece for Bloomberg a few weeks ago talking about like issues and the performance.

What has it been?

What has it been?

Why now are people saying, Look, Harvard's performance is not that great, there's some reason to be concerned. There's some falling off in the what they're able to generate for the university.

Why now are people saying, Look, Harvard's performance is not that great, there's some reason to be concerned. There's some falling off in the what they're able to generate for the university.

Well, I think some insiders, especially you know, some of their really famous economists, they know what's going on. But the last year the performance was overshadowed by some other issues, especially you know, their president being thrown before Congress. You know, the president resigned, she had plagiarism scandal. People have been very upset about how Harvard has handled anti semitism. The story had last week said their fundraising was down. You know, their cash gifts was the lowest in it fell fifteen percent. It was the lowest since twenty fifteen. You know, they famously raise a huge amount of money. You know, they're known for the endowment, but they're also known for being prolific fundraisers. And you know, they did get to a billion dollars last year. But I'm sure it wasn't easy. Considering people are upset when Plovotnik Ken Griffin both alum said they're not giving money that they've paused their gifts to Harvard because the way things are going there.

Well, I think some insiders, especially you know, some of their really famous economists, they know what's going on. But the last year the performance was overshadowed by some other issues, especially you know, their president being thrown before Congress. You know, the president resigned, she had plagiarism scandal. People have been very upset about how Harvard has handled anti semitism. The story had last week said their fundraising was down. You know, their cash gifts was the lowest in it fell fifteen percent. It was the lowest since twenty fifteen. You know, they famously raise a huge amount of money. You know, they're known for the endowment, but they're also known for being prolific fundraisers. And you know, they did get to a billion dollars last year. But I'm sure it wasn't easy. Considering people are upset when Plovotnik Ken Griffin both alum said they're not giving money that they've paused their gifts to Harvard because the way things are going there.

So one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is, as we've mentioned a number of times, Harvard is a huge pot of money. And I've heard people say stuff like because of its size, it makes it harder to move positions around, it can't be as nimble. But then I think, well, it's huge, so it should be getting like the best deals. It should have some sort of edge. So is size here a net pro or con.

So one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is, as we've mentioned a number of times, Harvard is a huge pot of money. And I've heard people say stuff like because of its size, it makes it harder to move positions around, it can't be as nimble. But then I think, well, it's huge, so it should be getting like the best deals. It should have some sort of edge. So is size here a net pro or con.

I think that's a very fair question, And you know, Harvard will say it's so big it's hard to manage fifty three billion dollars. Now, keep in mind the size hasn't been that big.

I think that's a very fair question, And you know, Harvard will say it's so big it's hard to manage fifty three billion dollars. Now, keep in mind the size hasn't been that big.

Ever.

Ever.

They had a huge eleven billion dollar gain in fiscal twenty one, you know, when everybody had a crazy year. You know, some endowments had gains of fifty percent. Harvard was on the low end at thirty four percent, And of course they had a huge decrease during the financial crisis, so they've been building back up. Now. The school with the best ten year performance is Brown and that has the smallest endowment size, and they're definitely more nimble but they seem to take more risk. You know, they're into you know, you've heard maybe there's some cryptocurrency or there's some other risk there. And if you go back and read all the Harvard alumni the Harvard financial reports, as I did, the current CEO talks a lot about risk. He mentions more than once that Harvard takes less risk than its large peers. And you know it still could be a vestige from two thousand and eight when they had a huge liquidity problem.

They had a huge eleven billion dollar gain in fiscal twenty one, you know, when everybody had a crazy year. You know, some endowments had gains of fifty percent. Harvard was on the low end at thirty four percent, And of course they had a huge decrease during the financial crisis, so they've been building back up. Now. The school with the best ten year performance is Brown and that has the smallest endowment size, and they're definitely more nimble but they seem to take more risk. You know, they're into you know, you've heard maybe there's some cryptocurrency or there's some other risk there. And if you go back and read all the Harvard alumni the Harvard financial reports, as I did, the current CEO talks a lot about risk. He mentions more than once that Harvard takes less risk than its large peers. And you know it still could be a vestige from two thousand and eight when they had a huge liquidity problem.

Let me ask another way of thinking about the benchmark sitting aside. What is a good return in a given year or a good return over five years? What is the importance of the Harvard Endowment to the Harvard University budget? And because there's multiple ways of financing the university, there's tuition, there's alumni giving, there's probably other grants and stuff like that, and then there's the money that the endowment throws off. What does Harvard University need from the Harvard Endowment?

Let me ask another way of thinking about the benchmark sitting aside. What is a good return in a given year or a good return over five years? What is the importance of the Harvard Endowment to the Harvard University budget? And because there's multiple ways of financing the university, there's tuition, there's alumni giving, there's probably other grants and stuff like that, and then there's the money that the endowment throws off. What does Harvard University need from the Harvard Endowment?

Well, the Harvard Endowment is the largest provider of money to the university thirty seven percent, okay, and that's grown over time. Ten years ago it was thirty one percent, and twenty years ago it was twenty twenty one percent. So in other words, Harvard University is becoming a lot more reliant on the Harvard endowment.

Well, the Harvard Endowment is the largest provider of money to the university thirty seven percent, okay, and that's grown over time. Ten years ago it was thirty one percent, and twenty years ago it was twenty twenty one percent. So in other words, Harvard University is becoming a lot more reliant on the Harvard endowment.

So you mentioned this idea of investing in alts, and I think Harvard was like a backer of D one in particular a hedge fund. And I'm curious the sales pitch from hedge funds is always uncorrelated returns. So what happened in down years for Harvard, like in twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three when markets were like or sorry in twenty twenty three, when markets were falling? Did they manage to post above average returns?

So you mentioned this idea of investing in alts, and I think Harvard was like a backer of D one in particular a hedge fund. And I'm curious the sales pitch from hedge funds is always uncorrelated returns. So what happened in down years for Harvard, like in twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three when markets were like or sorry in twenty twenty three, when markets were falling? Did they manage to post above average returns?

So over time in twenty twenty three, I think they had a two point nine percent gain, which was not bad. You know, among the Ivy League schools, a couple of big endowments head losses. I think it was Duke and Mit. And Mit is really strong in their returns too that we don't sort of use them in their eight schools because you know, the Ivy League is a sports conference, but it's also a nice group of eight schools that you can easily compare. And Harvard, you know, in the big year where the in twenty one they were below average in the IVY League. Now, they didn't traditionally have the allocation to private equity and vcs that say Yale did. And Harvard is now at thirty nine percent in private equity, but they've ramped up really since twenty sixteen. I'm sorry, it was sixteen percent maybe five years ago, six years ago, and now they're at thirty nine percent, So they've been ramping up sort of not at the best time. And keep in mind that Yale has been investing in some of these private equity firms and vc for years and years and years, and people really want to be Yale's partner, and Harvard sort of has a reputation of not being the greatest partner because as you saw on the D one example, you know, they sell and you know they had to unload, you know, a billion dollars worth of natural resources assets. So people clamor to be, you know, in the Yale and the Princeton Endowment because they're seen as just amazing partners, and Harvard doesn't seem to have that same reputation lately.

So over time in twenty twenty three, I think they had a two point nine percent gain, which was not bad. You know, among the Ivy League schools, a couple of big endowments head losses. I think it was Duke and Mit. And Mit is really strong in their returns too that we don't sort of use them in their eight schools because you know, the Ivy League is a sports conference, but it's also a nice group of eight schools that you can easily compare. And Harvard, you know, in the big year where the in twenty one they were below average in the IVY League. Now, they didn't traditionally have the allocation to private equity and vcs that say Yale did. And Harvard is now at thirty nine percent in private equity, but they've ramped up really since twenty sixteen. I'm sorry, it was sixteen percent maybe five years ago, six years ago, and now they're at thirty nine percent, So they've been ramping up sort of not at the best time. And keep in mind that Yale has been investing in some of these private equity firms and vc for years and years and years, and people really want to be Yale's partner, and Harvard sort of has a reputation of not being the greatest partner because as you saw on the D one example, you know, they sell and you know they had to unload, you know, a billion dollars worth of natural resources assets. So people clamor to be, you know, in the Yale and the Princeton Endowment because they're seen as just amazing partners, and Harvard doesn't seem to have that same reputation lately.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know that much about the Yale endowment model, but I probably should read David Swinston's book at some point and all that and really learn about it. But I do get the impression that it's designed to just be not set it and forget it. But like, truly it's all about that sort of all cycle portfolio, right that really can just is designed to ultimately work across a long cycle of whatever is.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know that much about the Yale endowment model, but I probably should read David Swinston's book at some point and all that and really learn about it. But I do get the impression that it's designed to just be not set it and forget it. But like, truly it's all about that sort of all cycle portfolio, right that really can just is designed to ultimately work across a long cycle of whatever is.

In and out.

In and out.

Well, they will look at firms for years before they may make an investment, so they tend to do their homework for a long time. And there I think I remember on one report they said the average tenure of their outside managers is something like thirteen years. So it's you know, if you think getting into a school like Yale or Princeton is hard, try getting to be one of their managers.

Well, they will look at firms for years before they may make an investment, so they tend to do their homework for a long time. And there I think I remember on one report they said the average tenure of their outside managers is something like thirteen years. So it's you know, if you think getting into a school like Yale or Princeton is hard, try getting to be one of their managers.

Well just actually, and I want to get into this war. But just a very quick question, does Harvard have hedge fund allocation? Of course, oh yeah, yeah, you're already talking. Yeah, okay, god, they do, okay.

Well just actually, and I want to get into this war. But just a very quick question, does Harvard have hedge fund allocation? Of course, oh yeah, yeah, you're already talking. Yeah, okay, god, they do, okay.

And it's the second largest allocation now it's at thirty two percent. The largest allocation is private equity at thirty nine percent.

And it's the second largest allocation now it's at thirty two percent. The largest allocation is private equity at thirty nine percent.

And just a very very short question. If Tracy and I are starting a hedge fund, and it's like a multi strategy hedge fund and all that stuff. Would Harvard definitely be one of our stops when we're trying to look at raising money.

And just a very very short question. If Tracy and I are starting a hedge fund, and it's like a multi strategy hedge fund and all that stuff. Would Harvard definitely be one of our stops when we're trying to look at raising money.

Did you go to Harvard? I'm just kidding. Yeah, I don't know. It just depends they like niche, really niche stuff.

Did you go to Harvard? I'm just kidding. Yeah, I don't know. It just depends they like niche, really niche stuff.

Got it.

Got it.

So if you're you know, peddling something like a Japanese something fun that is really niche that nobody else is doing. Maybe.

So if you're you know, peddling something like a Japanese something fun that is really niche that nobody else is doing. Maybe.

So you mentioned the sort of turmoil at the upper levels of the Harvard Endowment and I think we're on the fifth CEO in like eleven years something like that. Can you describe the new CEO? Like where does he come from? And is his style different to predecessors. I think he's done somewhere structuring of the company and things like that.

So you mentioned the sort of turmoil at the upper levels of the Harvard Endowment and I think we're on the fifth CEO in like eleven years something like that. Can you describe the new CEO? Like where does he come from? And is his style different to predecessors. I think he's done somewhere structuring of the company and things like that.

Yes. So he came in December twenty sixteen from Columbia, where he had excellent performance, and that was one of the reasons why he was hired, because the performance at Columbia used to be pretty good. But he came in and had to steer a very large ship in a ship that's very scrutinized. Everybody wants to know how Harvard is doing, and as I mentioned, before they used to employ more than two hundred people traders, and they had a different model than Yale because they had a huge internal presence, and they slashed that. He also reversed course on natural resources, where that had been a huge interest of Jane Mendillo, the previous longer term CEO of Harvard Management. But they didn't do as well, so he sold a lot of those off. They restructured pay again. We talked about you know, if you're manager and you did great in your own ASCID class, you would get handsomely rewarded, but if the endowment as a whole was not performing well, that didn't really matter. So he made a lot of changes.

Yes. So he came in December twenty sixteen from Columbia, where he had excellent performance, and that was one of the reasons why he was hired, because the performance at Columbia used to be pretty good. But he came in and had to steer a very large ship in a ship that's very scrutinized. Everybody wants to know how Harvard is doing, and as I mentioned, before they used to employ more than two hundred people traders, and they had a different model than Yale because they had a huge internal presence, and they slashed that. He also reversed course on natural resources, where that had been a huge interest of Jane Mendillo, the previous longer term CEO of Harvard Management. But they didn't do as well, so he sold a lot of those off. They restructured pay again. We talked about you know, if you're manager and you did great in your own ASCID class, you would get handsomely rewarded, but if the endowment as a whole was not performing well, that didn't really matter. So he made a lot of changes.

Let's talk about Actually, you mentioned natural resources, which could be code for a few things, so I remember I seem to recall I just remembered another thing that I remembered about David Swenson, which is I think he was like really into timber. Yeah, for a while, and there was like sort of like famously into timber. But then there's another natural resource issue, and this will eventually allow us to talk about what I really want to talk about, which is the University of Texas. But of course resource politics and resource investing is also always controversial when it comes to you know, carbon fuels like oil and stuff like that. So before we get into Texas and all their oil money, what is the status of Harvard's own investments in things like oil, et cetera. And how does like the sort of unique politics of Harvard affect those choices.

Let's talk about Actually, you mentioned natural resources, which could be code for a few things, so I remember I seem to recall I just remembered another thing that I remembered about David Swenson, which is I think he was like really into timber. Yeah, for a while, and there was like sort of like famously into timber. But then there's another natural resource issue, and this will eventually allow us to talk about what I really want to talk about, which is the University of Texas. But of course resource politics and resource investing is also always controversial when it comes to you know, carbon fuels like oil and stuff like that. So before we get into Texas and all their oil money, what is the status of Harvard's own investments in things like oil, et cetera. And how does like the sort of unique politics of Harvard affect those choices.

So for a long time, most schools, you know, were asked by their students to divest from anything related to fossil fuels. Harvard did not divest from anything. I think sometimes that's not understood. Well, divest means selling things, and Harvard said, we're not going to make new investments. So you know what it means to allow things to roll off, You're not going to make you know, when this next private equity fund is raising money, that means they may not go into it. They're not selling on the secondary market. You know, typically endowments don't have direct holdings, or you know, maybe they have a tiny amount, maybe it was a gift and they still have held on to it. But typically endowments today do not have direct holdings and companies.

So for a long time, most schools, you know, were asked by their students to divest from anything related to fossil fuels. Harvard did not divest from anything. I think sometimes that's not understood. Well, divest means selling things, and Harvard said, we're not going to make new investments. So you know what it means to allow things to roll off, You're not going to make you know, when this next private equity fund is raising money, that means they may not go into it. They're not selling on the secondary market. You know, typically endowments don't have direct holdings, or you know, maybe they have a tiny amount, maybe it was a gift and they still have held on to it. But typically endowments today do not have direct holdings and companies.

That's how they used.

That's how they used.

To in you know, in the seventies and eighties and in the eighties when you heard about schools divesting from, you know, investments related to apartheid. They were literally selling US companies that operated in South Africa. So that's a huge change. So they stopped making new fossil fuel investments. And NARV wrote in one of the reports in twenty two when they had a loss, the CEO said Harvard had missed out on strong returns in the energy sector and that decision contributed, you know, marginally to the loss a year. But at the same time, you look at a place like Texas which has huge amounts of cash coming in because of oil, and let's is this a good time to bring up their history? Yeah?

To in you know, in the seventies and eighties and in the eighties when you heard about schools divesting from, you know, investments related to apartheid. They were literally selling US companies that operated in South Africa. So that's a huge change. So they stopped making new fossil fuel investments. And NARV wrote in one of the reports in twenty two when they had a loss, the CEO said Harvard had missed out on strong returns in the energy sector and that decision contributed, you know, marginally to the loss a year. But at the same time, you look at a place like Texas which has huge amounts of cash coming in because of oil, and let's is this a good time to bring up their history? Yeah?

Yeah, yeah, there's a good way.

Yeah, yeah, there's a good way.

Good Where does the how did the oil money kind of start?

Good Where does the how did the oil money kind of start?

So it was kind of a fluke in a lucky stroke of history. In the late eighteen seventies, the state of Texas set aside land for higher education, and it was supposed to be near the railroad, but it was too valuable and it got moved to West Texas, and eventually higher education in Texas was allotted something like two point one million acres in West Texas and they were supposed to generate money by agriculture or grazing rights, and the plan was eventually to sell it. But then in nineteen twenty three, something happened. Joe, do you know what happened?

So it was kind of a fluke in a lucky stroke of history. In the late eighteen seventies, the state of Texas set aside land for higher education, and it was supposed to be near the railroad, but it was too valuable and it got moved to West Texas, and eventually higher education in Texas was allotted something like two point one million acres in West Texas and they were supposed to generate money by agriculture or grazing rights, and the plan was eventually to sell it. But then in nineteen twenty three, something happened. Joe, do you know what happened?

Well, black Gold yet struck. Now there's a there at the University of Texas campus, there's this little I don't know if it's still there, but yeah, twenty years ago there's this little like sort of I don't know, exhibit, and they played this audio. It's like spinble top black Gold and it has like with this like really like exaggerated Texas accent, and there's like a fake oil derrick or oil well or something like that. This sort of shows like where it all came from.

Well, black Gold yet struck. Now there's a there at the University of Texas campus, there's this little I don't know if it's still there, but yeah, twenty years ago there's this little like sort of I don't know, exhibit, and they played this audio. It's like spinble top black Gold and it has like with this like really like exaggerated Texas accent, and there's like a fake oil derrick or oil well or something like that. This sort of shows like where it all came from.

So in nineteen twenty three they literally started getting all this revenue from oil. And I did a story a couple of years ago. I went down to Midland and I went on on the land and that year they got something like two billion dollars in cash. And it's it's completely separate from their endowment. It's not generated from investments. It's just cash that comes in. And the crazy thing about it is, you know they're you know you hear, oh, well, at some point energy is not going to be you know is not going to be as valuable, which you know, it's still going to be around for twenty thirty years generating a lot of money for Texas. But they're in the best position for wind and solar also, which is a really you know, nascent industry there. But you know, when when you're ready for that, they're going to make a lot of money too.

So in nineteen twenty three they literally started getting all this revenue from oil. And I did a story a couple of years ago. I went down to Midland and I went on on the land and that year they got something like two billion dollars in cash. And it's it's completely separate from their endowment. It's not generated from investments. It's just cash that comes in. And the crazy thing about it is, you know they're you know you hear, oh, well, at some point energy is not going to be you know is not going to be as valuable, which you know, it's still going to be around for twenty thirty years generating a lot of money for Texas. But they're in the best position for wind and solar also, which is a really you know, nascent industry there. But you know, when when you're ready for that, they're going to make a lot of money too.

It is kind of crazy to think that that decision to set aside land in like the eighteen hundreds is really paying off now. So every once in a while, Joe will tweet something about the Texas Longhorns, the football team, and so one thing I'm curious about is we're talking about all this money that's flowing into universities. What's the breakdown of like where colleges get their money. So I imagine it's a mix of donations, returns from endowments, or sports like part of that too.

It is kind of crazy to think that that decision to set aside land in like the eighteen hundreds is really paying off now. So every once in a while, Joe will tweet something about the Texas Longhorns, the football team, and so one thing I'm curious about is we're talking about all this money that's flowing into universities. What's the breakdown of like where colleges get their money. So I imagine it's a mix of donations, returns from endowments, or sports like part of that too.

I don't think I think it's a huge amount. I mean unless you're you know, one of the schools like Texas that actually makes money on sports. But it's a very small number of schools actually collect you know, somewhat of a I don't want to say a prophet, but generate revenue. But you know, many schools have weird histories of how they made their money, like Emery for example, in Atlanta. They're one of the richest schools and part of the reason is because of the Koch stock that was given to them and they eventually sold. Northwestern is one of the richest schools because a drug called Lyrica was developed in the chemistry department one of their presidents a few years a few presidents back, decided to sell half of the royalties and that's you know why they had why they became one of the richest schools.

I don't think I think it's a huge amount. I mean unless you're you know, one of the schools like Texas that actually makes money on sports. But it's a very small number of schools actually collect you know, somewhat of a I don't want to say a prophet, but generate revenue. But you know, many schools have weird histories of how they made their money, like Emery for example, in Atlanta. They're one of the richest schools and part of the reason is because of the Koch stock that was given to them and they eventually sold. Northwestern is one of the richest schools because a drug called Lyrica was developed in the chemistry department one of their presidents a few years a few presidents back, decided to sell half of the royalties and that's you know why they had why they became one of the richest schools.

Sorry, I'm just thinking more about that little exhibit on the Texas camp.

Sorry, I'm just thinking more about that little exhibit on the Texas camp.

But there's the other thing.

But there's the other thing.

They're like black Goal Texas c which they also said, I love that Texas ce.

They're like black Goal Texas c which they also said, I love that Texas ce.

Why didn't we go see that exhibit?

Why didn't we go see that exhibit?

Yeah, I don't know, but it's like one of those things where it's like if you're college student, you're like walking around and you may be like drunken eleven pm at night and you're like walking through campus like you stopped there and the audio is playing. If I recall like twenty four to seven next to this pump, and.

Yeah, I don't know, but it's like one of those things where it's like if you're college student, you're like walking around and you may be like drunken eleven pm at night and you're like walking through campus like you stopped there and the audio is playing. If I recall like twenty four to seven next to this pump, and.

I'm sure you're not speaking from personal experience.

I'm sure you're not speaking from personal experience.

I don't see, not really, but that's like a thing that you do, Okay, I get like Texas has this big advantage because of this flute gift from over one hundred years ago, and they discovered all the oil and you know, and the wind and solar coming up. But like it's not just that they've done a good job too, right, Well.

I don't see, not really, but that's like a thing that you do, Okay, I get like Texas has this big advantage because of this flute gift from over one hundred years ago, and they discovered all the oil and you know, and the wind and solar coming up. But like it's not just that they've done a good job too, right, Well.

They're huge. I mean it's a huge campus. And initially that money only funded two campuses, U T Austin, and we can't forget about Texas A and M in college station. They share, they share that land. Two thirds goes to University of Texas at Austin, one third goes to Texas A and M. And they pull that money together and it's invested in a company called you Timco. They followed the Harvard Management company model and they created a separate company. And you tim is based in Austin. And you know, if you're a hedge fund and you're visiting, you know, the big Texas pension funds, you Timco is there in Austin, so it would just be another place.

They're huge. I mean it's a huge campus. And initially that money only funded two campuses, U T Austin, and we can't forget about Texas A and M in college station. They share, they share that land. Two thirds goes to University of Texas at Austin, one third goes to Texas A and M. And they pull that money together and it's invested in a company called you Timco. They followed the Harvard Management company model and they created a separate company. And you tim is based in Austin. And you know, if you're a hedge fund and you're visiting, you know, the big Texas pension funds, you Timco is there in Austin, so it would just be another place.

So Tracy, because of my Texas roots and we're starting our odd lots multi strategy hedge fund we would stop at you, Timco rather than Harvard. That would be our first stop rather than Harvard.

So Tracy, because of my Texas roots and we're starting our odd lots multi strategy hedge fund we would stop at you, Timco rather than Harvard. That would be our first stop rather than Harvard.

It sounds like you just want to go to Texas.

It sounds like you just want to go to Texas.

Yeah, but I also want the money.

Yeah, but I also want the money.

Yeah, Okay. One thing I'm wondering is so endowments are invested heavily in private equity, which we talked about, and it feels to me like there's a little bit more criticism of private equity right now than there used to be. There is a big piece in the Guardian about how private equity is like ruining the economy and things like that. Do you think there's going to be any pressure to divest from PE?

Yeah, Okay. One thing I'm wondering is so endowments are invested heavily in private equity, which we talked about, and it feels to me like there's a little bit more criticism of private equity right now than there used to be. There is a big piece in the Guardian about how private equity is like ruining the economy and things like that. Do you think there's going to be any pressure to divest from PE?

Well, I don't know that they would want to sell anything on the secondary market, but they you know, perhaps you know, they may not want to re up and increase their allocation because at this point they're quite large, you know, Harvard and Yale and Princeton, they're all around the thirty nine percent ish percentage. And part of the reason is, again I keep going back to twenty twenty one when they had these crazy returns, but you know the value of their private equity books just really increased with those returns, So you know, it's just a it's a bigger share of their endowment. And plus you know, they've had great returns up until recently. And you know, when you think of when David Swinston started investing in private equity decades ago, there wasn't that much money, so it was easier to get crazy returns as they did.

Well, I don't know that they would want to sell anything on the secondary market, but they you know, perhaps you know, they may not want to re up and increase their allocation because at this point they're quite large, you know, Harvard and Yale and Princeton, they're all around the thirty nine percent ish percentage. And part of the reason is, again I keep going back to twenty twenty one when they had these crazy returns, but you know the value of their private equity books just really increased with those returns, So you know, it's just a it's a bigger share of their endowment. And plus you know, they've had great returns up until recently. And you know, when you think of when David Swinston started investing in private equity decades ago, there wasn't that much money, so it was easier to get crazy returns as they did.

So where are we in terms of the biggest How close are we towards my U Timco eclipsing a Harvard management company? Like what are we talking about here?

So where are we in terms of the biggest How close are we towards my U Timco eclipsing a Harvard management company? Like what are we talking about here?

Well, it's hard to tell. I mean if you look at how Harvard did in the last ten years in their annualized returns and the year that ended twenty twenty three, they were in the bottom twenty percent. So it's hard to tell. I mean, if you get another banner year with energy and they keep getting a couple billion dollars in cash, But.

Well, it's hard to tell. I mean if you look at how Harvard did in the last ten years in their annualized returns and the year that ended twenty twenty three, they were in the bottom twenty percent. So it's hard to tell. I mean, if you get another banner year with energy and they keep getting a couple billion dollars in cash, But.

Like Hony, how much literally is the gap? Like what do we know of in terms of their size?

Like Hony, how much literally is the gap? Like what do we know of in terms of their size?

I don't know if I've seen what U Timco size is right now, but you know, a couple billion here and there, so we're close.

I don't know if I've seen what U Timco size is right now, but you know, a couple billion here and there, so we're close.

Okay. So the other thing that's going on, speaking of public criticism, is some of the Israel Palestine controversy that's happened at Harvard over the past year. Talk to us about that and what impact that's been having on donations.

Okay. So the other thing that's going on, speaking of public criticism, is some of the Israel Palestine controversy that's happened at Harvard over the past year. Talk to us about that and what impact that's been having on donations.

So Harvard has been at the forefront of protests on campus, like many schools, they had encampments. There's ended in the spring without police arrests. I think everybody was very happy about that. But there was a tremendous amount of criticism over the last year about how they've handled anti semitism on campus, protests, encampments, and alumni really mobilized and said we're not donating, and you know in alumni, very wealthy ones like Lenn Blovotnik and just sort of your average Harvard alum, you know, said we're not going to do this. And they're known for being amazing fundraisers. They've raised over a billion dollars every year since twenty fourteen. They usually raised the most, although Stanford has raised more in some years. And donations were down fifteen percent and in the year ended in June, and when you think about when they were in the news so much at the end of December, remember there was that congressional hearing in December fifth with the presidents of Penn MIT and Harvard. They were, you know, in the news NonStop until the end of December. She ultimately stepped down, clutting gay the president on January second. But when do most people make their gifts to colleges. They make their gifts at the end of the calendar year, and that was not a great time for Harvard.

So Harvard has been at the forefront of protests on campus, like many schools, they had encampments. There's ended in the spring without police arrests. I think everybody was very happy about that. But there was a tremendous amount of criticism over the last year about how they've handled anti semitism on campus, protests, encampments, and alumni really mobilized and said we're not donating, and you know in alumni, very wealthy ones like Lenn Blovotnik and just sort of your average Harvard alum, you know, said we're not going to do this. And they're known for being amazing fundraisers. They've raised over a billion dollars every year since twenty fourteen. They usually raised the most, although Stanford has raised more in some years. And donations were down fifteen percent and in the year ended in June, and when you think about when they were in the news so much at the end of December, remember there was that congressional hearing in December fifth with the presidents of Penn MIT and Harvard. They were, you know, in the news NonStop until the end of December. She ultimately stepped down, clutting gay the president on January second. But when do most people make their gifts to colleges. They make their gifts at the end of the calendar year, and that was not a great time for Harvard.

I just have one last question, and it's a little bit philosophical. Am I bad for donating to my college? I had an amazing time at Texas. I mean this seriously. I had an amazing time at Texas. Nothing I actually learned led directly to a job, but it was a formative experience. I look back on it fondly. I've been very fortunate in my career since then. Many good things that have happened in my life were roughly from that time that I spent there. Like, should I think about this differently? Because when I look at it's like they have tons of money, they don't really need anymore. Like pitch me that.

I just have one last question, and it's a little bit philosophical. Am I bad for donating to my college? I had an amazing time at Texas. I mean this seriously. I had an amazing time at Texas. Nothing I actually learned led directly to a job, but it was a formative experience. I look back on it fondly. I've been very fortunate in my career since then. Many good things that have happened in my life were roughly from that time that I spent there. Like, should I think about this differently? Because when I look at it's like they have tons of money, they don't really need anymore. Like pitch me that.

It's like a good idea, Well, do you want to help students have a similar experience that you do.

It's like a good idea, Well, do you want to help students have a similar experience that you do.

They have tons of money.

They have tons of money.

I don't know, maybe there's something in particular you can tailor your donation to something specifically, I mean, and that's one of the podcasts.

I don't know, maybe there's something in particular you can tailor your donation to something specifically, I mean, and that's one of the podcasts.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, that's one of the things that Harvard complains about is a lot of their money is they say it's restricted. Oh yeah, right, so if you give money to the crew team, they can't spend it in theory on the tennis team.

Well, that's one of the things that Harvard complains about is a lot of their money is they say it's restricted. Oh yeah, right, so if you give money to the crew team, they can't spend it in theory on the tennis team.

Right.

Right.

So you could say I want to you know, I want to give it to something, and then there you go. It could be named after you if you want.

So you could say I want to you know, I want to give it to something, and then there you go. It could be named after you if you want.

Yeah, maybe a little maybe a little podcast studio at the j School.

Yeah, maybe a little maybe a little podcast studio at the j School.

There you guysenthal podcast.

There you guysenthal podcast.

Yea there, maybe maybe that.

Yea there, maybe maybe that.

And they you know, one thing about these gifts is you know, their multi year so you could make up pledge over ten years or whatever the case.

And they you know, one thing about these gifts is you know, their multi year so you could make up pledge over ten years or whatever the case.

But I'm open to changing my mind on this. So I just but you know, I wrestle with it because I just between the three of us here in the room, like I think I have the number that like they call me on like I either haven't blocked or like I have like it says like do not answer.

But I'm open to changing my mind on this. So I just but you know, I wrestle with it because I just between the three of us here in the room, like I think I have the number that like they call me on like I either haven't blocked or like I have like it says like do not answer.

I'm open to.

I'm open to.

I'm open to like kind of cruel. That's yeah, I know, That's what I'm saying. I have a little issue I have. I have some misgivings, and I'm open to rethinking this question at this stage in my life. Janet Lauren, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.

I'm open to like kind of cruel. That's yeah, I know, That's what I'm saying. I have a little issue I have. I have some misgivings, and I'm open to rethinking this question at this stage in my life. Janet Lauren, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.

Thanks for having me, Tracy.

Thanks for having me, Tracy.

I am going to use this podcast for the most nakedly egregious self serving purpose ever right now, and I just want everyone to be aware of that.

I am going to use this podcast for the most nakedly egregious self serving purpose ever right now, and I just want everyone to be aware of that.

Okay, Wait, is it urging listeners to continue to support the pod so that you can make donations to Steve?

Okay, Wait, is it urging listeners to continue to support the pod so that you can make donations to Steve?

No? No, no, I'm like open to rethinking my philosophy on donations because I probably when I blocked the number, I was like, you know, much younger and earlier in my career. No, you know what I've thought. I can't believe I'm going to say this out loud. I've thought that a nice, I quote retirement job for me would be being some sort of adjunct professor at the journalism school at UT And like, you know, I've done a lot in digital media and like maybe through donations or something, find a way back into that community.

No? No, no, I'm like open to rethinking my philosophy on donations because I probably when I blocked the number, I was like, you know, much younger and earlier in my career. No, you know what I've thought. I can't believe I'm going to say this out loud. I've thought that a nice, I quote retirement job for me would be being some sort of adjunct professor at the journalism school at UT And like, you know, I've done a lot in digital media and like maybe through donations or something, find a way back into that community.

Yeah, start laying the ground right now.

Yeah, start laying the ground right now.

Basically, start prepaying my salary, make a bunch of donations so that you know, twenty years from now, when we stop doing odd lots. There's like this pool of money that can fund my adjunct degree.

Basically, start prepaying my salary, make a bunch of donations so that you know, twenty years from now, when we stop doing odd lots. There's like this pool of money that can fund my adjunct degree.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely, but maybe someone will hear that. And like I'm just saying.

Absolutely, but maybe someone will hear that. And like I'm just saying.

Don't go to Texas, Joe.

Don't go to Texas, Joe.

No I'm not.

No I'm not.

I'm just yeah, I won't, Okay, but I but yeah, maybe someone will listen and at the University of Texas Journalism School and hear about.

I'm just yeah, I won't, Okay, but I but yeah, maybe someone will listen and at the University of Texas Journalism School and hear about.

My twenty years twenty year Yeah. You know.

My twenty years twenty year Yeah. You know.

One other thing though, for real, though, I think it's really interesting about this, and I hadn't realized, is the difference in the corporate structure between the Harvard Endowment and the Yale Endowment. And so you can and so anyone can just look at the Harvard endowments. Why are you paying all these people so much? Have you heard? Passive is the future? All these fees And yet you could have another institution that's doing fantastically and no one sees how much they're paying managers or how much individual star traders are getting because those independent star traders are at the hedge funds that no one actually gets to see because they don't file some independent return you know.

One other thing though, for real, though, I think it's really interesting about this, and I hadn't realized, is the difference in the corporate structure between the Harvard Endowment and the Yale Endowment. And so you can and so anyone can just look at the Harvard endowments. Why are you paying all these people so much? Have you heard? Passive is the future? All these fees And yet you could have another institution that's doing fantastically and no one sees how much they're paying managers or how much individual star traders are getting because those independent star traders are at the hedge funds that no one actually gets to see because they don't file some independent return you know.

Speaking of transparency, I saw this really great chart in the Harvard Crimson the student newspaper, and it's the word count of the annual message. I love that from the Harvard Management Company CEO, the Endowment CEO, and I think it used to be like over three thousand words typically and now it's gone down to a little over one thousand. So interesting. That's where a lot of the criticism of lack of transparency at Harvard comes from.

Speaking of transparency, I saw this really great chart in the Harvard Crimson the student newspaper, and it's the word count of the annual message. I love that from the Harvard Management Company CEO, the Endowment CEO, and I think it used to be like over three thousand words typically and now it's gone down to a little over one thousand. So interesting. That's where a lot of the criticism of lack of transparency at Harvard comes from.

Yeah, well you just get rid of all, you know, don't have any in house traders talking your thing, and you let the third party managers, the hedge funds be let them write the words in the letters. That's their job is to write words in the letters.

Yeah, well you just get rid of all, you know, don't have any in house traders talking your thing, and you let the third party managers, the hedge funds be let them write the words in the letters. That's their job is to write words in the letters.

That's right. We leave it there. Let's leave it there, all right. This has been another episode of the Authots podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway.

That's right. We leave it there. Let's leave it there, all right. This has been another episode of the Authots podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway.

And I'm Jill Wisenthal. You can follow me at the Stalwart. Follow our guest Janet Lauren at Janet Lauren and check out her recent big take on the Harvard Endowment on Bloomberg dot com. Follow our producers Carmen Rodriguez at Kerman armand Dashel Bennett at Dashbot and Kilbrooks at Kilbrooks and Thank you to our producer Moses onam form our Odd Lots content. Go to Bloomberg dot com slash odd Lots, where have transcripts, a blog and a newsletter and you can chat about all of these topics twenty four to seven in our discord Discord dot gg slash od Lots.

And I'm Jill Wisenthal. You can follow me at the Stalwart. Follow our guest Janet Lauren at Janet Lauren and check out her recent big take on the Harvard Endowment on Bloomberg dot com. Follow our producers Carmen Rodriguez at Kerman armand Dashel Bennett at Dashbot and Kilbrooks at Kilbrooks and Thank you to our producer Moses onam form our Odd Lots content. Go to Bloomberg dot com slash odd Lots, where have transcripts, a blog and a newsletter and you can chat about all of these topics twenty four to seven in our discord Discord dot gg slash od Lots.

And if you want more odd Lots content, you should check out an offer that we have running right now. You can become a Bloomberg subscriber at a special introductory rate. All you have to do is go to Bloomberg dot com Forward slash Podcast offer and then click on the link in the show notes, and if you do that, you will get ad free Odd Lots of episodes as well as access to our new daily newsletter. Thanks for listening.

And if you want more odd Lots content, you should check out an offer that we have running right now. You can become a Bloomberg subscriber at a special introductory rate. All you have to do is go to Bloomberg dot com Forward slash Podcast offer and then click on the link in the show notes, and if you do that, you will get ad free Odd Lots of episodes as well as access to our new daily newsletter. Thanks for listening.