Today's wonderful guest, Sir John Kirwan, or JK as we know him, was one of the best rugby legends on the planet. He was known as being one of the toughest men but, JK spent a lot of his rugby career paralysed by anxiety. During his time as an All Black, the conversation around mental health was very different to what it is today and JK was, at least in part, a reason that our understanding of mental health has shifted.

In this chat we speak about what the early days of being an All Black were like; not much pay and the need for a second job! He played 63 test matches for the All Blacks from 1984 to 1994 and was part of the winning 1987 Rugby World Cup team. He also played for the Warriors and had success as a rugby coach, including on the international stage with Italy and Japan.

We speak about JK's family and why he has such a deep connection to Italy. 

In 2012, JK was knighted for his services to mental health – an honour & a life long responsibility as he says. At least he got a scone! He is the co-founder of Groov who are on a mission to improve the daily well being and reduce the suffering of people living with poor mental health. 

You can now watch our podcasts on Youtube!

As for all of these podcasts, Shaw and Partners have generously donated $10k to the charity of choice of each of our guests. 

Sir John Kirwan chose to donate the money to Gotcha4life

This podcast is brought to you by Shaw and Partners.

It is hosted by Gus Worland and produced by Keeshia Pettit