I was a very very reluctant psychiatric patient.

I was a very very reluctant psychiatric patient.

As were you embarrassed?

As were you embarrassed?

I was so embarrassed.

I was so embarrassed.

To me, it just felt like complete rock bottom that I had ended up there, not just a failure as a mother, but a failure as a psychologist to be on the other side of the camera, you know, to be the one who was being observed.

To me, it just felt like complete rock bottom that I had ended up there, not just a failure as a mother, but a failure as a psychologist to be on the other side of the camera, you know, to be the one who was being observed.

From Momama. You're listening to no filter and I'm mea Friedman. The first days after having a baby, the first week's, first years sometimes can be really hard. But for Ariane Beeston, who's my guest today, one day when she was looking at her newborn baby, his name was Henry, she didn't see a little boy. She saw a dragon, and not a cute, happy dragon, but a red faced, angry, threatening dragon. That was the moment that arian knew something was really wrong and that she shouldn't be seeing what she was seeing, but she didn't tell anyone. Meanwhile, other very wrong, very scary things were happening too, things that shouldn't be happening. A few months later, she would be diagnosed with postpartum psychosis. And it's interesting you may be familiar with postpartum depression. I think most people are even if you haven't had a baby. But postpartum psychosis is something altogether different, and Arianne wasn't familiar with postpartum psychosis either until it happened to her, and several years after she recovered, she decided to share her story with the world in a wildly good memoir called Because I'm Not Myself. You see, it's about a woman finding her way out of her darkest time after becoming the new mother. There are some laughs in this conversation and a lot of hope, but we also hear about the hardest moments when Ariane struggled with feelings of wanting to end her life. So please listen mindfully. I start this conversation by asking arian about a particular case that she worked on when she worked as a caseworker in child protection, and it was about the story of a baby she calls Declin.

From Momama. You're listening to no filter and I'm mea Friedman. The first days after having a baby, the first week's, first years sometimes can be really hard. But for Ariane Beeston, who's my guest today, one day when she was looking at her newborn baby, his name was Henry, she didn't see a little boy. She saw a dragon, and not a cute, happy dragon, but a red faced, angry, threatening dragon. That was the moment that arian knew something was really wrong and that she shouldn't be seeing what she was seeing, but she didn't tell anyone. Meanwhile, other very wrong, very scary things were happening too, things that shouldn't be happening. A few months later, she would be diagnosed with postpartum psychosis. And it's interesting you may be familiar with postpartum depression. I think most people are even if you haven't had a baby. But postpartum psychosis is something altogether different, and Arianne wasn't familiar with postpartum psychosis either until it happened to her, and several years after she recovered, she decided to share her story with the world in a wildly good memoir called Because I'm Not Myself. You see, it's about a woman finding her way out of her darkest time after becoming the new mother. There are some laughs in this conversation and a lot of hope, but we also hear about the hardest moments when Ariane struggled with feelings of wanting to end her life. So please listen mindfully. I start this conversation by asking arian about a particular case that she worked on when she worked as a caseworker in child protection, and it was about the story of a baby she calls Declin.

So I was a pretty new caseworker. I hadn't been on the child protection team for very long, and we received a notification from the helpline that we needed to respond immediately the concerns where the parents had had an argument in the hospital room where Declan was a patient. He'd been admitted to hospital with a cold and a little bit of nappy rash, and we responded. We went to the hospital and there were concerns around family violence and drug and alcohol use, mental health problems. We did an assessment and it was determined that day that he needed to come into care.

So I was a pretty new caseworker. I hadn't been on the child protection team for very long, and we received a notification from the helpline that we needed to respond immediately the concerns where the parents had had an argument in the hospital room where Declan was a patient. He'd been admitted to hospital with a cold and a little bit of nappy rash, and we responded. We went to the hospital and there were concerns around family violence and drug and alcohol use, mental health problems. We did an assessment and it was determined that day that he needed to come into care.

Because he wasn't safe to go home with his parents.

Because he wasn't safe to go home with his parents.

He wasn't safe at that point. So oftentimes we needed to do that assessment really quickly. We had to make decisions fast, and bringing him into care meant that we were able to look into the situation a little bit more, determine what supports the parents might need, or take the case through the children's court, which is what ended up happening.

He wasn't safe at that point. So oftentimes we needed to do that assessment really quickly. We had to make decisions fast, and bringing him into care meant that we were able to look into the situation a little bit more, determine what supports the parents might need, or take the case through the children's court, which is what ended up happening.

You talk about that also calmly, and I assume you obviously have to be calm and kind of attached in the moment, But I imagine those situations when you're taking children from their parents at a time of intense drama in stress. Yeah, what's actually like in that room when you have to tell someone we're going to take you child because we don't think he's safe.

You talk about that also calmly, and I assume you obviously have to be calm and kind of attached in the moment, But I imagine those situations when you're taking children from their parents at a time of intense drama in stress. Yeah, what's actually like in that room when you have to tell someone we're going to take you child because we don't think he's safe.

Yeah, I mean, I'm you're right, there's almost a detached calmness talking about it now, But no, I can almost feel in that moment, that conversation that needs to happen, the actual physical act of taking the child. I talk about in the book another example of being in a in a police station and yeah, having to take it. Think it was an eleven month old baby boy and yeah, having to my colleague taking him. And because my colleague was holding the baby, the father then went to attack me and went to assault me in that moment, And it was only that we were in a police station surrounded by officers that yeah, probably wasn't physically harmed in that moment. And I think I remember, I mean at the time, I wasn't a parent, and so I mean I could understand intellectually, I suppose what it must have been like. But yeah, as a parent reflecting on that time, it feels very very different.

Yeah, I mean, I'm you're right, there's almost a detached calmness talking about it now, But no, I can almost feel in that moment, that conversation that needs to happen, the actual physical act of taking the child. I talk about in the book another example of being in a in a police station and yeah, having to take it. Think it was an eleven month old baby boy and yeah, having to my colleague taking him. And because my colleague was holding the baby, the father then went to attack me and went to assault me in that moment, And it was only that we were in a police station surrounded by officers that yeah, probably wasn't physically harmed in that moment. And I think I remember, I mean at the time, I wasn't a parent, and so I mean I could understand intellectually, I suppose what it must have been like. But yeah, as a parent reflecting on that time, it feels very very different.

You often when you went into people's houses, you had to be accompanied by police officers.

You often when you went into people's houses, you had to be accompanied by police officers.

Yeah safety, Yeah, in a number of situations. I think there had been a few incidents as critical incidents as prior to my joining the team, and that had certainly become more common practice that we were accompanied by police.

Yeah safety, Yeah, in a number of situations. I think there had been a few incidents as critical incidents as prior to my joining the team, and that had certainly become more common practice that we were accompanied by police.

How long did you do this work for? Because it sounds incredibly grueling, and we know that child protection workers particularly tend to burn out quite quickly.

How long did you do this work for? Because it sounds incredibly grueling, and we know that child protection workers particularly tend to burn out quite quickly.

Yeah, So I worked on the helpline for about eighteen months and then I think I was in the field for about two years, and then moved into the psychologist's position and after that, so working which was a very very different role. So you can imagine it wasn't doing that frontline work. It was more working with foster cares and children who'd been in care and more sort of behavior management and yeah, working to support foster cares.

Yeah, So I worked on the helpline for about eighteen months and then I think I was in the field for about two years, and then moved into the psychologist's position and after that, so working which was a very very different role. So you can imagine it wasn't doing that frontline work. It was more working with foster cares and children who'd been in care and more sort of behavior management and yeah, working to support foster cares.

Tell me how you met Rob.

Tell me how you met Rob.

It was during a job interview. I was studying.

It was during a job interview. I was studying.

I was at university and at the time Rob was looking for online moderators and he wanted sort of education psychology students to come in and moderate these chat rooms because you can imagine remember back in the day, maybe little Avatar and you'd go in and yeah, you'd chat with with other other people now the teenagers or other people, and part of it was, yeah, making sure that there was that safety development to it and looking out for you know, the cyber sex to remember that was a big feature.

I was at university and at the time Rob was looking for online moderators and he wanted sort of education psychology students to come in and moderate these chat rooms because you can imagine remember back in the day, maybe little Avatar and you'd go in and yeah, you'd chat with with other other people now the teenagers or other people, and part of it was, yeah, making sure that there was that safety development to it and looking out for you know, the cyber sex to remember that was a big feature.

Yeah, and so you were like a virtual bouncer in a way.

Yeah, and so you were like a virtual bouncer in a way.

So I was an online moderator at Harbor Hotel and so he hired me. I turned up for this job interview, and that's how we met.

So I was an online moderator at Harbor Hotel and so he hired me. I turned up for this job interview, and that's how we met.

Like, was it sparks in the job interview? When did you start dating?

Like, was it sparks in the job interview? When did you start dating?

It was? Actually, we laugh about it.

It was? Actually, we laugh about it.

There was definitely a definitely an instant connection and a lot of the funny part about that job was it was mostly remote sort of even back in it, we were doing remote work that was all shifts from home and around the clock, so we didn't actually have a huge amount to do with each other until sort of later on and he'd moved into a more senior role, and yeah, we sort of we had developed a really strong friendship first and then it, yeah, developed from there.

There was definitely a definitely an instant connection and a lot of the funny part about that job was it was mostly remote sort of even back in it, we were doing remote work that was all shifts from home and around the clock, so we didn't actually have a huge amount to do with each other until sort of later on and he'd moved into a more senior role, and yeah, we sort of we had developed a really strong friendship first and then it, yeah, developed from there.

So you guys were dating and together when you were working in child protection.

So you guys were dating and together when you were working in child protection.

Yeah, yeah, we had just moved in together.

Yeah, yeah, we had just moved in together.

So did you always know you wanted to become a mother?

So did you always know you wanted to become a mother?

I always wanted to be a mom.

I always wanted to be a mom.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm the eldest of four, and yeah, I grew up into the chaos of having a big family and lots of siblings and lots of noise and lots of friends over and there was always a exture of people in the house. And yeah, I always always wanted to be a mom. Always wanted to have two.

I'm the eldest of four, and yeah, I grew up into the chaos of having a big family and lots of siblings and lots of noise and lots of friends over and there was always a exture of people in the house. And yeah, I always always wanted to be a mom. Always wanted to have two.

I had it all planned.

I had it all planned.

I was going to have my first child at twenty eight, my second child at thirty, and I was going to get on with my career.

I was going to have my first child at twenty eight, my second child at thirty, and I was going to get on with my career.

And yeah, it was all sort of.

And yeah, it was all sort of.

That's exactly how it worked out. Yeah, spoiler alert, it didn't plot Twiss. Tell me about finding out that you were pregnant. Did you get pregnant easily?

That's exactly how it worked out. Yeah, spoiler alert, it didn't plot Twiss. Tell me about finding out that you were pregnant. Did you get pregnant easily?

Yeah, that was the easiest part me. When I talk about this story, like the act, that was Yeah, that was the easy part. And in a way it was it was unexpected. I think we were surrounded at that time by people who seemed to be having problems falling pregnant and fertility problems, and and so I think we assumed that, you know, it might take six to twelve months, and better kind of get it, get ahead, start just in case it did. And yeah, I think we felt pregnant first go. So it was a bit of a bit of a surprise that it happened so fast.

Yeah, that was the easiest part me. When I talk about this story, like the act, that was Yeah, that was the easy part. And in a way it was it was unexpected. I think we were surrounded at that time by people who seemed to be having problems falling pregnant and fertility problems, and and so I think we assumed that, you know, it might take six to twelve months, and better kind of get it, get ahead, start just in case it did. And yeah, I think we felt pregnant first go. So it was a bit of a bit of a surprise that it happened so fast.

Tell me about your pregnancy. You write that some of the ghosts of your very intense ballet training you've been a dancer when you were younger, came back to haunt you during pregnancy, like the tracking and the monitoring and the obsessing tell me about that.

Tell me about your pregnancy. You write that some of the ghosts of your very intense ballet training you've been a dancer when you were younger, came back to haunt you during pregnancy, like the tracking and the monitoring and the obsessing tell me about that.

So I always wanted to be a ballerina and trained all the way through my teenage years. And I was too short to be a ballet dancer, which is not something you know, most people think about dancers and the kind of thin that's the aesthetic ideal that people think about. But there's also very strict kind of parameters around height. So I think the perfect hide is one hundred and sixty five to about one hundred and seventy five. It might be different now, but yeah, I stopped growing. I was five foot one. I was also too muscular. I had very muscular, muscular legs, and yeah, I was I just was all wrong. So yeah, those those adolescent years were spent really trying to mold and change my body to fit this aesthetic ideal that I just was never able to achieve, or not to achieve in a healthy way.

So I always wanted to be a ballerina and trained all the way through my teenage years. And I was too short to be a ballet dancer, which is not something you know, most people think about dancers and the kind of thin that's the aesthetic ideal that people think about. But there's also very strict kind of parameters around height. So I think the perfect hide is one hundred and sixty five to about one hundred and seventy five. It might be different now, but yeah, I stopped growing. I was five foot one. I was also too muscular. I had very muscular, muscular legs, and yeah, I was I just was all wrong. So yeah, those those adolescent years were spent really trying to mold and change my body to fit this aesthetic ideal that I just was never able to achieve, or not to achieve in a healthy way.

Well, you can starve yourself thinner, but you can't starve yourself taller.

Well, you can starve yourself thinner, but you can't starve yourself taller.

No, And that was that was the problem.

No, And that was that was the problem.

There's only so much you can do, and I think once I sort of realized that there was nothing I could really do, like I was never going to be the aesthetic ideal. I mean, it was a heartbreak, it was a it was a grief and I very much sort of put that aspect of my life behind me, and yeah, decided I was going to throw myself into into study and psychology and completely.

There's only so much you can do, and I think once I sort of realized that there was nothing I could really do, like I was never going to be the aesthetic ideal. I mean, it was a heartbreak, it was a it was a grief and I very much sort of put that aspect of my life behind me, and yeah, decided I was going to throw myself into into study and psychology and completely.

Changed my life track.

Changed my life track.

But as we know for a lot of women, perinatal period is when those disordered eating habits can either happen for the first time or can reappear. And I really struggled with I really really struggled with my changing body. I really struggled with how I felt in my skin. I didn't feel Yeah, I didn't feel beautiful. I didn't feel like I was glowing. I just felt all wrong. And for me, it definitely stirred that, like he said, beautifully before those ghosts, Yeah, sort of stirred that dormant beast. And I, yeah, really really struggled with eating and trying to, you know, wrestling with those ideas of you know, the baby needs to be healthy and you want to do everything, but at the same time, yeah, really not feeling good about myself.

But as we know for a lot of women, perinatal period is when those disordered eating habits can either happen for the first time or can reappear. And I really struggled with I really really struggled with my changing body. I really struggled with how I felt in my skin. I didn't feel Yeah, I didn't feel beautiful. I didn't feel like I was glowing. I just felt all wrong. And for me, it definitely stirred that, like he said, beautifully before those ghosts, Yeah, sort of stirred that dormant beast. And I, yeah, really really struggled with eating and trying to, you know, wrestling with those ideas of you know, the baby needs to be healthy and you want to do everything, but at the same time, yeah, really not feeling good about myself.

You also started to think or obsess or feel very anxious about birth defects. Yeah, and you were very specific in the birth defect that you were concerned. Can you tell me about that.

You also started to think or obsess or feel very anxious about birth defects. Yeah, and you were very specific in the birth defect that you were concerned. Can you tell me about that.

Yeah, I was reflecting on this recently, and I wonder whether at the time, obviously I was still watching a lot of commercial TV, and there was the ad a lot at the time for the Elevant you know, the prenatal vitamins and like Folllate.

Yeah, I was reflecting on this recently, and I wonder whether at the time, obviously I was still watching a lot of commercial TV, and there was the ad a lot at the time for the Elevant you know, the prenatal vitamins and like Folllate.

There was a lot of obsession around about foll Aight. Yeah. I remember when I was pregnant. It was this idea of you need to start taking fullate before you get pregnant, because that's that's you know, in those first few weeks.

There was a lot of obsession around about foll Aight. Yeah. I remember when I was pregnant. It was this idea of you need to start taking fullate before you get pregnant, because that's that's you know, in those first few weeks.

Is it's those first few years that's really true.

Is it's those first few years that's really true.

When most women don't even know they're pregnant.

When most women don't even know they're pregnant.

No, exactly.

No, exactly.

And I think that stuck somewhere in my mind, obviously, and that's what the anxiety latched onto. So and I think too, because I'd fallen, we'd fallen pregnant so quickly, I did worry or maybe I hadn't taken the folllight or I hadn't taken enough vitamins before falling pregnant. Yeah, I became really fixated that he had till the baby had some kind of neural tube defect and that I would be told at the twenty week scan that there was something wrong with him. Yeah, I just I didn't feel that I was able to bond or attach at all during pregnancy because I just assumed that something was going.

And I think that stuck somewhere in my mind, obviously, and that's what the anxiety latched onto. So and I think too, because I'd fallen, we'd fallen pregnant so quickly, I did worry or maybe I hadn't taken the folllight or I hadn't taken enough vitamins before falling pregnant. Yeah, I became really fixated that he had till the baby had some kind of neural tube defect and that I would be told at the twenty week scan that there was something wrong with him. Yeah, I just I didn't feel that I was able to bond or attach at all during pregnancy because I just assumed that something was going.

To go wrong. Yeah, that was what happened at that twenty week scan. Those scans are awful. I hated all my scans.

To go wrong. Yeah, that was what happened at that twenty week scan. Those scans are awful. I hated all my scans.

Yeah, it's a stressful one, that that twenty week scan.

Yeah, it's a stressful one, that that twenty week scan.

Sc anxiety they call it anxiety.

Sc anxiety they call it anxiety.

Him and he was fine, and remember the yeah obstetricians saying everything, everything looks good, and yeah, he was healthy. And I remember it was almost at that moment when the anxiety sort of folded in on itself and then it just became I mean, what I now know was an antenatal depression, but I didn't certainly didn't have the language or to describe it as such at the time. And I think because it was like qualitatively very different to what happened postpartum, mean that it was a real sort of absence of emotion and a real everything just seemed very strict of color. Everything was gray. This is towards the end of the pregnancy, which just felt so strange and out of step with what I had expected it to be like and what society almost tells you.

Him and he was fine, and remember the yeah obstetricians saying everything, everything looks good, and yeah, he was healthy. And I remember it was almost at that moment when the anxiety sort of folded in on itself and then it just became I mean, what I now know was an antenatal depression, but I didn't certainly didn't have the language or to describe it as such at the time. And I think because it was like qualitatively very different to what happened postpartum, mean that it was a real sort of absence of emotion and a real everything just seemed very strict of color. Everything was gray. This is towards the end of the pregnancy, which just felt so strange and out of step with what I had expected it to be like and what society almost tells you.

Had you experienced depression or anxiety before tea?

Had you experienced depression or anxiety before tea?

That's an interesting question. Yes, I think so. Had I been clinically diagnosed and treated for it?

That's an interesting question. Yes, I think so. Had I been clinically diagnosed and treated for it?

No, so you weren't on any medication. You didn't have the language of oh, this is my anxiety. It was more there's something wrong with my baby. I hate my body.

No, so you weren't on any medication. You didn't have the language of oh, this is my anxiety. It was more there's something wrong with my baby. I hate my body.

I feel exactly, I feel flat or flat. Yeah, And I think.

I feel exactly, I feel flat or flat. Yeah, And I think.

For me, I had definitely experienced We talked earlier about huge op protection work and those periods of just burnout, and I think I had written off those periods of feeling flat and down as I'm just really burnt out, rather than I'm clinically depressed. So yeah, certainly, retrospectively, I could say, yeah, I certainly had had periods of anxiety and depression, which then placed me at higher risk. Obviously postpartum, as we know when.

For me, I had definitely experienced We talked earlier about huge op protection work and those periods of just burnout, and I think I had written off those periods of feeling flat and down as I'm just really burnt out, rather than I'm clinically depressed. So yeah, certainly, retrospectively, I could say, yeah, I certainly had had periods of anxiety and depression, which then placed me at higher risk. Obviously postpartum, as we know when.

You were pregnant and you were feeling this way, the fears and the flatness, could you tell anyone? Could you talk to Rob about it or any of your girlfriends, because there's a lot of pressure to are you so excited? Is this the best thing that's ever happened.

You were pregnant and you were feeling this way, the fears and the flatness, could you tell anyone? Could you talk to Rob about it or any of your girlfriends, because there's a lot of pressure to are you so excited? Is this the best thing that's ever happened.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I didn't say a word. I didn't say a word. I put on my performance ace, and yeah, I just sort.

No, I didn't say a word. I didn't say a word. I put on my performance ace, and yeah, I just sort.

Of performed pregnancy performed excited. I did expect it.

Of performed pregnancy performed excited. I did expect it.

And I think I was the first in our sort of friends group to have a baby, so I didn't really have a lot to compare it to. And so again, yeah, have that kind of chorus of voices of women who are excited to you but haven't gone through it themselves, and the days sort of you know, oh, yeah, you must be so excited, and the anticipation, but yeah, not not not not having gone through it themselves, they didn't. I think have that perspective as well, that as we know when you've gone through it, you tend to be a bit more measured in how you ask pregnant women how they're feeling or what their experience is like, because we know it's not always blissful and a lot of women spend nine months with their head down the toilet and it can be miserable and there's a lot of pressure. Yeah, to feel grateful and blessed.

And I think I was the first in our sort of friends group to have a baby, so I didn't really have a lot to compare it to. And so again, yeah, have that kind of chorus of voices of women who are excited to you but haven't gone through it themselves, and the days sort of you know, oh, yeah, you must be so excited, and the anticipation, but yeah, not not not not having gone through it themselves, they didn't. I think have that perspective as well, that as we know when you've gone through it, you tend to be a bit more measured in how you ask pregnant women how they're feeling or what their experience is like, because we know it's not always blissful and a lot of women spend nine months with their head down the toilet and it can be miserable and there's a lot of pressure. Yeah, to feel grateful and blessed.

And Henry was born and placed in your arms.

And Henry was born and placed in your arms.

Yeah, what did you feel.

Yeah, what did you feel.

In that moment, and what did you expect to feel in that moment.

In that moment, and what did you expect to feel in that moment.

I remember, I remember feeling it was almost like an out of body experience.

I remember, I remember feeling it was almost like an out of body experience.

I remember looking down at him.

I remember looking down at him.

And and I'm very little, and the whole way through pregnancy, I'd been told, you know, he's measuring small, he's little, he's really little. We're worried about his growth. And he was placed on me and he was actually big. He was very healthy. I think three point four kilos.

And and I'm very little, and the whole way through pregnancy, I'd been told, you know, he's measuring small, he's little, he's really little. We're worried about his growth. And he was placed on me and he was actually big. He was very healthy. I think three point four kilos.

Wow, which is that's a sizeable baby.

Wow, which is that's a sizeable baby.

Yes, it was a large boy.

Yes, it was a large boy.

Yeah, and so the kind of it didn't the baby and we talk women talk about this a lot, with the baby you imagine during your pregnancy and then the baby that you have of two very different things. And so yeah, I just remember him being much bigger and much heavier, you.

Yeah, and so the kind of it didn't the baby and we talk women talk about this a lot, with the baby you imagine during your pregnancy and then the baby that you have of two very different things. And so yeah, I just remember him being much bigger and much heavier, you.

Know, on my on my chest than I had expected.

Know, on my on my chest than I had expected.

And I remember, I mean, there's so much pressure to feel that rush of love, or you expect to feel that rush of love at first sight, that suddenly life in the universe and everything will make sense in that moment, and I just didn't feel anything. It was just this very strange sense of nothing. And I've since learned that that's actually very very common, that that almost powerful sense of indifference to when when women see their baby for the first time. It's indifference. Nothing, not necessarily positive, not necessarily negative, just oh well, what is this little stranger, this little person who I've housed for nine months and now they're here? And yeah, oftentimes you women go through when they go through a traumatic birth as well, and that that experience just isn't what they expect, and it can be quite distressing, I think for a lot of women when they expect to feel that rush of love and it just doesn't arrive.

And I remember, I mean, there's so much pressure to feel that rush of love, or you expect to feel that rush of love at first sight, that suddenly life in the universe and everything will make sense in that moment, and I just didn't feel anything. It was just this very strange sense of nothing. And I've since learned that that's actually very very common, that that almost powerful sense of indifference to when when women see their baby for the first time. It's indifference. Nothing, not necessarily positive, not necessarily negative, just oh well, what is this little stranger, this little person who I've housed for nine months and now they're here? And yeah, oftentimes you women go through when they go through a traumatic birth as well, and that that experience just isn't what they expect, and it can be quite distressing, I think for a lot of women when they expect to feel that rush of love and it just doesn't arrive.

You're right, so beautifully in your book. Wrenched from between my legs, Henry's now under my chin, the midwife grabs my breast, places the baby's mouth around it, and I lie there, shocked, depleted, a new citizen of what the poet is very calls the republic of motherhood. I wait for the love to come. I wait for the moments they show in movies, the scenes I've read in books. I look at this boy, this perfect crying boy, and I feel nothing. Nothing you talked about when you're working with babies, you didn't know much like I'm out of my depth. What do I know about babies? And then someone gives you one and asks you to take care of your own. And I know there's a moment I think for every new parent when you're driving away from the hospital and you're like, are they just gonna let us collect me go home with this baby?

You're right, so beautifully in your book. Wrenched from between my legs, Henry's now under my chin, the midwife grabs my breast, places the baby's mouth around it, and I lie there, shocked, depleted, a new citizen of what the poet is very calls the republic of motherhood. I wait for the love to come. I wait for the moments they show in movies, the scenes I've read in books. I look at this boy, this perfect crying boy, and I feel nothing. Nothing you talked about when you're working with babies, you didn't know much like I'm out of my depth. What do I know about babies? And then someone gives you one and asks you to take care of your own. And I know there's a moment I think for every new parent when you're driving away from the hospital and you're like, are they just gonna let us collect me go home with this baby?

Like I need a note?

Like I need a note?

Yeah, I asked me what FID Like I don't know what to do? How can we be legal?

Yeah, I asked me what FID Like I don't know what to do? How can we be legal?

Yeah? Exactly, it does feel a little bit. Did you check all about.

Yeah? Exactly, it does feel a little bit. Did you check all about.

After this shortbreak? Arion brings Henry home and tries to begin well motherhood, but things do not go to plan. Stay with us. When you got home, in those first few days adjusting after Henry was born, how did you feel, like? What are your memory of those days or is it just a blank?

After this shortbreak? Arion brings Henry home and tries to begin well motherhood, but things do not go to plan. Stay with us. When you got home, in those first few days adjusting after Henry was born, how did you feel, like? What are your memory of those days or is it just a blank?

It is a bit of a blank.

It is a bit of a blank.

And I know I say that because I know that it was probably about day four or day five that the first psychotic symptoms for me started to show. I remember the slow drive home from hospital, which is again a really universal experience in partnersad were going really slowly with your precious cargo.

And I know I say that because I know that it was probably about day four or day five that the first psychotic symptoms for me started to show. I remember the slow drive home from hospital, which is again a really universal experience in partnersad were going really slowly with your precious cargo.

The world seems very dangerous and full of threat.

The world seems very dangerous and full of threat.

Every year exactly, and that even if it's a short drive home. Yeah, it's a very universal feeling. A lot of people can relate to that. I remember, again a common experience if you get home and what do we do now? But also managing the rush of visitors as well, and everybody wants to come to hold the baby, and the baby so again wrenched out of your arms and passed around and people often mean well, but again don't necessarily know how to help or how to be useful, and so you're there sort of entertaining people as well. There's a lot of pressure, Yeah, a lot of pressure. And you know, I think a lot of women decide for their second or subsequent babies that they're going to do things very very different.

Every year exactly, and that even if it's a short drive home. Yeah, it's a very universal feeling. A lot of people can relate to that. I remember, again a common experience if you get home and what do we do now? But also managing the rush of visitors as well, and everybody wants to come to hold the baby, and the baby so again wrenched out of your arms and passed around and people often mean well, but again don't necessarily know how to help or how to be useful, and so you're there sort of entertaining people as well. There's a lot of pressure, Yeah, a lot of pressure. And you know, I think a lot of women decide for their second or subsequent babies that they're going to do things very very different.

On the fourth day, you were changing Henry's nappy. What happened?

On the fourth day, you were changing Henry's nappy. What happened?

I was changing here snappy was in the middle of the night, as you do, and he had a little bit of a nappy rash, which is very common, especially for newborns.

I was changing here snappy was in the middle of the night, as you do, and he had a little bit of a nappy rash, which is very common, especially for newborns.

They get nappy rash.

They get nappy rash.

And for whatever reason, in that moment, my brain connected it with the cases that I had worked in child protection and baby Declan who had a bit of nappy rash and who we had taken into care, not for that reason, and I had the first of the psychotic symptoms, which was the false belief or the delusion that somehow dogs or child protection would know that he had this nappy rash and that they were going to come and remove him. They were going to come and take him away. And I knew that because I had done that myself. Yeah, so it was a very powerful sense of I mean, it was a paranoia or a sense of that I was being under surveillance and that they would know and he was going to come.

And for whatever reason, in that moment, my brain connected it with the cases that I had worked in child protection and baby Declan who had a bit of nappy rash and who we had taken into care, not for that reason, and I had the first of the psychotic symptoms, which was the false belief or the delusion that somehow dogs or child protection would know that he had this nappy rash and that they were going to come and remove him. They were going to come and take him away. And I knew that because I had done that myself. Yeah, so it was a very powerful sense of I mean, it was a paranoia or a sense of that I was being under surveillance and that they would know and he was going to come.

And when you say, because some people listening to this might think, oh, yeah, maybe you were just having you know, new sort of sympathy or empathy for that mother and what it must have been like for her, and wouldn't it be awful? Because sometimes we play out these hypotheticals, right like what would happen if I accidentally dropped the baby? Wouldn't that be terrible? Or you know, you're very.

And when you say, because some people listening to this might think, oh, yeah, maybe you were just having you know, new sort of sympathy or empathy for that mother and what it must have been like for her, and wouldn't it be awful? Because sometimes we play out these hypotheticals, right like what would happen if I accidentally dropped the baby? Wouldn't that be terrible? Or you know, you're very.

Alert those intrusive thoughts. Yeah, very common, Yeah, intrusive thoughts.

Alert those intrusive thoughts. Yeah, very common, Yeah, intrusive thoughts.

But a day or so later, there was a knock at the door unexpectedly. What did you do? How did you react to that?

But a day or so later, there was a knock at the door unexpectedly. What did you do? How did you react to that?

I lay down flat on the floor in the kitchen, and I waited until whoever it was left, and I remember my heart just pounding into the floor. Yeah and yeah, just assuming that it was so workers coming to take him, because.

I lay down flat on the floor in the kitchen, and I waited until whoever it was left, and I remember my heart just pounding into the floor. Yeah and yeah, just assuming that it was so workers coming to take him, because.

We all have irrational anxiety sometimes or fears, I guess, but this was more a certainty, like you just knew that that was what was going to happen.

We all have irrational anxiety sometimes or fears, I guess, but this was more a certainty, like you just knew that that was what was going to happen.

I was just waiting. I was waiting for it to happen. It was inevitable.

I was just waiting. I was waiting for it to happen. It was inevitable.

It was inevitable. It was just your body was reacting as though someone was actually on their way to take your baby. Yes, did you tell Rob?

It was inevitable. It was just your body was reacting as though someone was actually on their way to take your baby. Yes, did you tell Rob?

I it's interesting we have very different memories of this time.

I it's interesting we have very different memories of this time.

And I mean memoirs tough, isn't it me?

And I mean memoirs tough, isn't it me?

I mean you've written memoir and when you're sort of digging back and collecting those snippets of memories to check your own. Yeah, I think he has sort of memories of me. Almost what we now know is almost sort of trying throwing little things out like I wanted someone to ask or probe, but I wasn't ready to. And actually part of that was not so much around docs coming to remove him, but I was very concerned about the rash and not I didn't vocalize that I was worried about docs coming, but I was obviously very very worried about it, and out of proportion worried about it. And he was traveling a bit for work, and I mean, we can laugh at it now, but he has memories of sitting, you know, at a boardroom in LA He was working for the Walt Disney Company for Club Penguin at the time, and as memories of opening up his phone and just me sending him picture after picture of this rash and just saying, it's really bad. Isn't it like there's something really wrong. It's really really bad, and Rob just thinking that I was just anxious and just trying to reassure me. And you know, it looks okay. Have you used the cream? And have you given him some nappy free time? Saying all the right things because he's beautiful. But it was more around I started to have these halloosin nations where I found it really difficult to make out what Henry looked like, and his face just never looked right to me. I could never make out the features of his face, really hard to articulate now, and I would sometimes would see him as a little dragon, so I would hallucinate and he would just be this little dragon, not like, isn't.

I mean you've written memoir and when you're sort of digging back and collecting those snippets of memories to check your own. Yeah, I think he has sort of memories of me. Almost what we now know is almost sort of trying throwing little things out like I wanted someone to ask or probe, but I wasn't ready to. And actually part of that was not so much around docs coming to remove him, but I was very concerned about the rash and not I didn't vocalize that I was worried about docs coming, but I was obviously very very worried about it, and out of proportion worried about it. And he was traveling a bit for work, and I mean, we can laugh at it now, but he has memories of sitting, you know, at a boardroom in LA He was working for the Walt Disney Company for Club Penguin at the time, and as memories of opening up his phone and just me sending him picture after picture of this rash and just saying, it's really bad. Isn't it like there's something really wrong. It's really really bad, and Rob just thinking that I was just anxious and just trying to reassure me. And you know, it looks okay. Have you used the cream? And have you given him some nappy free time? Saying all the right things because he's beautiful. But it was more around I started to have these halloosin nations where I found it really difficult to make out what Henry looked like, and his face just never looked right to me. I could never make out the features of his face, really hard to articulate now, and I would sometimes would see him as a little dragon, so I would hallucinate and he would just be this little dragon, not like, isn't.

He a cute little dragon? But actually physically look like a drag. His face would look like a dragon's face. Was it a friendly dragon?

He a cute little dragon? But actually physically look like a drag. His face would look like a dragon's face. Was it a friendly dragon?

Mostly? No, some more friendly than others.

Mostly? No, some more friendly than others.

I remember particularly scary relapse, and it was a very angry red dragon.

I remember particularly scary relapse, and it was a very angry red dragon.

What did you do when he looked like a dragon?

What did you do when he looked like a dragon?

I mean, you do start to question your sanity? What's am I seeing things? Am I just really hired? Surely I didn't see that? Surely not? And then when it became more frequent, I knew something wasn't right. But I was also a newly registered psychologist. I was a mental health professional, and I was really worried that if I spoke up, if I was too honest about what was going on and some of those things that were happening, that they might take away my registration, my ability to practice, that I might never be able to work again.

I mean, you do start to question your sanity? What's am I seeing things? Am I just really hired? Surely I didn't see that? Surely not? And then when it became more frequent, I knew something wasn't right. But I was also a newly registered psychologist. I was a mental health professional, and I was really worried that if I spoke up, if I was too honest about what was going on and some of those things that were happening, that they might take away my registration, my ability to practice, that I might never be able to work again.

So it's interesting that you don't say you're worried they'd take away your baby.

So it's interesting that you don't say you're worried they'd take away your baby.

No. At that point, the early delusions around the removals, Yeah, that was sort of more early on, and then it definitely morphed into the hallucinations and the sense that I had died as well, that I was dead and that I never actually existed. I wasn't real, and if I was dead, then it wouldn't matter if I took my own life because I never existed in the first place. I was never real, no one would miss me, and yeah, and I would get stuck on that loop of thought about never actually existing.

No. At that point, the early delusions around the removals, Yeah, that was sort of more early on, and then it definitely morphed into the hallucinations and the sense that I had died as well, that I was dead and that I never actually existed. I wasn't real, and if I was dead, then it wouldn't matter if I took my own life because I never existed in the first place. I was never real, no one would miss me, and yeah, and I would get stuck on that loop of thought about never actually existing.

That must have been so terrifying.

That must have been so terrifying.

It was.

It was.

It's actually one of the most difficult things to even still talk about. I think everything else is sort of I can reflect on, almost clinically with a bit of distance, but that feeling of being confused about whether or not I was alive or dead and what that would mean if, yeah, if I actually did take my own life, by that point, I had become very suicidal, and that almost that canceled that out. And so you can see, I think why or how dangerous it can be when you get stuck on these loops of thought around suicidality, because to me, it just made complete sense. It wouldn't matter because I was dead anyway, I didn't exist, I never existed.

It's actually one of the most difficult things to even still talk about. I think everything else is sort of I can reflect on, almost clinically with a bit of distance, but that feeling of being confused about whether or not I was alive or dead and what that would mean if, yeah, if I actually did take my own life, by that point, I had become very suicidal, and that almost that canceled that out. And so you can see, I think why or how dangerous it can be when you get stuck on these loops of thought around suicidality, because to me, it just made complete sense. It wouldn't matter because I was dead anyway, I didn't exist, I never existed.

When you had these delusions when Henry became a dragon, when you thought that you were alive, Were you always alone or was there sometimes rather to.

When you had these delusions when Henry became a dragon, when you thought that you were alive, Were you always alone or was there sometimes rather to.

Be I tended to be mere, which is really which is quite interesting. I feel like I came into existence when when other people were around, because you can sort of relate, you know, when someone else is there.

Be I tended to be mere, which is really which is quite interesting. I feel like I came into existence when when other people were around, because you can sort of relate, you know, when someone else is there.

It's like Rob's talking to me, I must be alive exactly when he wasn't exactly.

It's like Rob's talking to me, I must be alive exactly when he wasn't exactly.

And those the most powerful memories of of not forlfeeling like not existing, tended to be when I was alone, or when I was pushing the pram and yeah, just pushing a pram as you do around the back streets. And I would sit there sometimes in the playground and take photos of my feet just to prove that I existed. And I would look at these photos and it was just pictures of my shoes to make sure that they came up in the in the pictures, just to.

And those the most powerful memories of of not forlfeeling like not existing, tended to be when I was alone, or when I was pushing the pram and yeah, just pushing a pram as you do around the back streets. And I would sit there sometimes in the playground and take photos of my feet just to prove that I existed. And I would look at these photos and it was just pictures of my shoes to make sure that they came up in the in the pictures, just to.

Prove that I was real.

Prove that I was real.

I don't know why it was on my feet, but I have, yeah, hundreds of pictures of just my feet that Rob saved in a file somewhere because it's like you might want to look at those one day. Part of your story.

I don't know why it was on my feet, but I have, yeah, hundreds of pictures of just my feet that Rob saved in a file somewhere because it's like you might want to look at those one day. Part of your story.

How old was Henry by now? Over what period of time was this happening, and had you still not told anybody?

How old was Henry by now? Over what period of time was this happening, and had you still not told anybody?

By six months it was too hard to hide. Not so much what was going gone in my head with the delusions and the hallucinations, but the physical aspects of the depression had become really obvious by then. So I was very I had no appetite, I couldn't sleep, and I was just vacant. There was nothing there behind my eyes.

By six months it was too hard to hide. Not so much what was going gone in my head with the delusions and the hallucinations, but the physical aspects of the depression had become really obvious by then. So I was very I had no appetite, I couldn't sleep, and I was just vacant. There was nothing there behind my eyes.

The light had gone.

The light had gone.

It was very obvious to people around me that something wasn't right. And Rob went overseas for work, and the moment he left that particular day, something just broke and I couldn't stop crying. And it was the first time where I hadn't been able to kind of regulate my own emotions around the baby. I think up until that point I had been able to keep it together.

It was very obvious to people around me that something wasn't right. And Rob went overseas for work, and the moment he left that particular day, something just broke and I couldn't stop crying. And it was the first time where I hadn't been able to kind of regulate my own emotions around the baby. I think up until that point I had been able to keep it together.

For him and perform motherhood and.

For him and perform motherhood and.

Perform motherhood, and I couldn't perform anymore. I was just I couldn't stop crying. And so that's when, yeah, I went to seek help for the first time.

Perform motherhood, and I couldn't perform anymore. I was just I couldn't stop crying. And so that's when, yeah, I went to seek help for the first time.

What did that look like?

What did that look like?

That looked like Initially being sent to a male psychiatrist who just wasn't the right fit came highly recommended, but I mean, you know what it's like you've been with over the years.

That looked like Initially being sent to a male psychiatrist who just wasn't the right fit came highly recommended, but I mean, you know what it's like you've been with over the years.

I'm sure different. You have to have a few professionals.

I'm sure different. You have to have a few professionals.

Yeah, but did someone straight away say to you postnatal depression? I mean, I know that you took the standard screening test for post natal depression pretty soon after Henry was born, but you passed that with flying colors.

Yeah, but did someone straight away say to you postnatal depression? I mean, I know that you took the standard screening test for post natal depression pretty soon after Henry was born, but you passed that with flying colors.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, how did you slip through the net in that six months or is it something that hit later or is it about your performance that you were just so good at performing?

So, how did you slip through the net in that six months or is it something that hit later or is it about your performance that you were just so good at performing?

Some of it was performance, some of it was as a mental health professional. I knew what to say and what not to say. I knew what boxes or what things to circle and what not to circle.

Some of it was performance, some of it was as a mental health professional. I knew what to say and what not to say. I knew what boxes or what things to circle and what not to circle.

I knew he lied yes to escape detection.

I knew he lied yes to escape detection.

I did.

I did.

Yeah, and it's not uncommon. I know a lot of a lot of women later sort of almost fess up and say, oh I lied on that test too.

Yeah, and it's not uncommon. I know a lot of a lot of women later sort of almost fess up and say, oh I lied on that test too.

I lied.

I lied.

So yeah, definitely at that early mark, I evaded detection.

So yeah, definitely at that early mark, I evaded detection.

Well, so Rob goes overseas you're you fall apart? Yeah, you go to the doctor.

Well, so Rob goes overseas you're you fall apart? Yeah, you go to the doctor.

Yep.

Yep.

I imagine it's hard, particularly if you're not being completely truthful yet. Yes, How what's then the path to being admitted to hospital.

I imagine it's hard, particularly if you're not being completely truthful yet. Yes, How what's then the path to being admitted to hospital.

Yeah, the psychiatric unit.

Yeah, the psychiatric unit.

So the psychiatrist I had seen just wasn't the right fit. He went in, I think with the assumption that you're, Oh, you're a psychologist, have you tried these strategies? And to me that sounded like, oh, you're a psychologist, have you tried to fix Why haven't you fixed yourself yet?

So the psychiatrist I had seen just wasn't the right fit. He went in, I think with the assumption that you're, Oh, you're a psychologist, have you tried these strategies? And to me that sounded like, oh, you're a psychologist, have you tried to fix Why haven't you fixed yourself yet?

Sure, he didn't mean it that way.

Sure, he didn't mean it that way.

It felt shaming. Yeah.

It felt shaming. Yeah.

Yeah, And by that point I had tried an SSRI, so an antidepressant. It wasn't working. Again, I was I had become increasingly suicidal. I had no sort of safety net of a good psychologist or psychiatrist. At that point, it just became Yeah, I guess I needed more intense support. I needed someone to do a proper assessment, medication review, and yeah, just to get that almost like yeah, it's like a bubble almost, those units, other baby units. You go in and you're sort of a little bit protected from the world and from the stresses of the outside world in a way where you can focus on just recovery, bonding with your baby and getting help around mothercraft and those sorts of things, and also filing different medications under supervision watching out for those side effects.

Yeah, And by that point I had tried an SSRI, so an antidepressant. It wasn't working. Again, I was I had become increasingly suicidal. I had no sort of safety net of a good psychologist or psychiatrist. At that point, it just became Yeah, I guess I needed more intense support. I needed someone to do a proper assessment, medication review, and yeah, just to get that almost like yeah, it's like a bubble almost, those units, other baby units. You go in and you're sort of a little bit protected from the world and from the stresses of the outside world in a way where you can focus on just recovery, bonding with your baby and getting help around mothercraft and those sorts of things, and also filing different medications under supervision watching out for those side effects.

And the idea is keeping the keeping the baby with the mother.

And the idea is keeping the keeping the baby with the mother.

Yes, exactly, exactly, which.

Yes, exactly, exactly, which.

Is interesting because most people would think, oh, you would want to separate the baby and the mother, so to give the mother a rest and also to protect the baby.

Is interesting because most people would think, oh, you would want to separate the baby and the mother, so to give the mother a rest and also to protect the baby.

It's interesting, isn't it.

It's interesting, isn't it.

But know these units, I mean, we know that if it's safe to do so, if it's safe to keep mum and baby together it's a treatment, then that's where they should be.

But know these units, I mean, we know that if it's safe to do so, if it's safe to keep mum and baby together it's a treatment, then that's where they should be.

Arian Can I ask you a really hard question, did you ever think about hurting Henry or yourself?

Arian Can I ask you a really hard question, did you ever think about hurting Henry or yourself?

Never? Never thought about.

Never? Never thought about.

It, even when he was a dragon, even.

It, even when he was a dragon, even.

When he was a dragon. No, that was never. It was always about myself, It was never about never about him.

When he was a dragon. No, that was never. It was always about myself, It was never about never about him.

Yeah, so that's why it was established that you were not a danger to him. Yeah, and as long as you were safe in hospital, he could be with you.

Yeah, so that's why it was established that you were not a danger to him. Yeah, and as long as you were safe in hospital, he could be with you.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And there are situations where women do have to be separated and put in hospital by themselves, but yeah, no, for me, it was determined that the best place for us was to be admitted together.

And there are situations where women do have to be separated and put in hospital by themselves, but yeah, no, for me, it was determined that the best place for us was to be admitted together.

When we return, we hear about the help that Arianne received in hospital and when she finally felt the clouds begin to part stay with us. There was a particular turning point for you? Henry was now about nine months old. What was the turning point in the hospital.

When we return, we hear about the help that Arianne received in hospital and when she finally felt the clouds begin to part stay with us. There was a particular turning point for you? Henry was now about nine months old. What was the turning point in the hospital.

I was a very very reluctant psychiatric patient, very reluctant.

I was a very very reluctant psychiatric patient, very reluctant.

As were you.

As were you.

Embarrassed.

Embarrassed.

I was so embarrassed it was absolute to me. It just felt like complete rock bottom that I had ended up there, not just a failure as a mother, but a failure as a mental health professional, as a psychologist and someone who had worked in a similar space. To be on the other side of the camera, you know, to be the one who is being observed and watched was very shameful.

I was so embarrassed it was absolute to me. It just felt like complete rock bottom that I had ended up there, not just a failure as a mother, but a failure as a mental health professional, as a psychologist and someone who had worked in a similar space. To be on the other side of the camera, you know, to be the one who is being observed and watched was very shameful.

Can you explain that because literally you had to be observed interacting with Henry to make sure that you were not a danger to him.

Can you explain that because literally you had to be observed interacting with Henry to make sure that you were not a danger to him.

I think so in that context, it wasn't so much about being danger. I think that that episode wasn't so much about safety. That was more about part of being admitted. A lot of women come in and they are having issues around attachment and bonding, and for a lot of women, it doesn't sort of we expect that to come naturally, that you should just know how to relate to your baby and we know that's not the case. A lot of women have to learn how to respond to their baby. So that was part of being admitted. Part of the program was that you would be filmed interacting with your baby, and so the nurses would basically watch you in a one on one scenario and then they would give you feedback basically that, yeah.

I think so in that context, it wasn't so much about being danger. I think that that episode wasn't so much about safety. That was more about part of being admitted. A lot of women come in and they are having issues around attachment and bonding, and for a lot of women, it doesn't sort of we expect that to come naturally, that you should just know how to relate to your baby and we know that's not the case. A lot of women have to learn how to respond to their baby. So that was part of being admitted. Part of the program was that you would be filmed interacting with your baby, and so the nurses would basically watch you in a one on one scenario and then they would give you feedback basically that, yeah.

Talk about a performance review under pressure Exactually.

Talk about a performance review under pressure Exactually.

It's actually and yeah, I was able to perform you know, motherhood on command. But it was a very humbling experience to be on the other side. But you asked me about the turning point, and I tell this story about being observed because a lot of that is about looking at attachment and attachment behaviors. And when I went into hospital, I was very concerned that Henry and I hadn't developed that attachment and that bond. And I felt that he and I used this language actually in the notes that I've read, he doesn't like me, he doesn't need me, he doesn't want me. Just a real sense of yeah, that that wasn't happening. And each day we had to go to we had to do group therapy, and the babies would go into a nursery to be looked after by the staff to give us a break while we did our therapy, and I remember he would have been here about nine months, and I gave him to one of the nurses and he started to cry, and he started to show those behaviors of not wanting to be deporated and sort of reached reached out to me, and one of the other women I was in there with said, oh, that my heart breaks, you know that that's so sad, and I remember saying, no, this is great, Like this means.

It's actually and yeah, I was able to perform you know, motherhood on command. But it was a very humbling experience to be on the other side. But you asked me about the turning point, and I tell this story about being observed because a lot of that is about looking at attachment and attachment behaviors. And when I went into hospital, I was very concerned that Henry and I hadn't developed that attachment and that bond. And I felt that he and I used this language actually in the notes that I've read, he doesn't like me, he doesn't need me, he doesn't want me. Just a real sense of yeah, that that wasn't happening. And each day we had to go to we had to do group therapy, and the babies would go into a nursery to be looked after by the staff to give us a break while we did our therapy, and I remember he would have been here about nine months, and I gave him to one of the nurses and he started to cry, and he started to show those behaviors of not wanting to be deporated and sort of reached reached out to me, and one of the other women I was in there with said, oh, that my heart breaks, you know that that's so sad, and I remember saying, no, this is great, Like this means.

That he misses me. This means that.

That he misses me. This means that.

He he you know, he does love me, does need me, and that he knows that I'm his mom and he doesn't want to just go to anyone. And through the act of handing him over to a stranger and him reaching out to me was just this really powerful moment of no, it's it's it's okay, like it's there. And I remember going off to therapy and then coming back and opening the child gate in the nursery and him just crawling towards me with this big beaming smile and me picking him up and just feeling like, oh my gosh, this is what everybody this is that feeling, This is what everybody talks about, and I just remember being completely just smitten and yeah, wow.

He he you know, he does love me, does need me, and that he knows that I'm his mom and he doesn't want to just go to anyone. And through the act of handing him over to a stranger and him reaching out to me was just this really powerful moment of no, it's it's it's okay, like it's there. And I remember going off to therapy and then coming back and opening the child gate in the nursery and him just crawling towards me with this big beaming smile and me picking him up and just feeling like, oh my gosh, this is what everybody this is that feeling, This is what everybody talks about, and I just remember being completely just smitten and yeah, wow.

Before that, it's like, that's the performance review you needed. Yes, before that. How did you feel about him? Did you like him? Did you love him? Did you were you kind of just indifferent to him? Did you were you angry at him? How did you feel about him?

Before that, it's like, that's the performance review you needed. Yes, before that. How did you feel about him? Did you like him? Did you love him? Did you were you kind of just indifferent to him? Did you were you angry at him? How did you feel about him?

It's a really great question. I felt definitely a sense of that I wanted to protect him, and you know that that's that sense of intense responsibility that comes with motherhood and parenthood.

It's a really great question. I felt definitely a sense of that I wanted to protect him, and you know that that's that sense of intense responsibility that comes with motherhood and parenthood.

Did you like him?

Did you like him?

I think I did like him. I did like I found him fascinating. But I just kept waiting for that feeling that everybody helped about. And I remember a doctor explaining to me at some point it's like it's there, Aria, and the feeling is there. It's there, it's just you're not well and it will come. Yeah, So I felt like it's in there, it's just buried. And it was that moment in hospital when he had that big smile and that I don't want to be separated because you're my mom, and yeah, that was the rash. That was the movie moment. It just came nine months later.

I think I did like him. I did like I found him fascinating. But I just kept waiting for that feeling that everybody helped about. And I remember a doctor explaining to me at some point it's like it's there, Aria, and the feeling is there. It's there, it's just you're not well and it will come. Yeah, So I felt like it's in there, it's just buried. And it was that moment in hospital when he had that big smile and that I don't want to be separated because you're my mom, and yeah, that was the rash. That was the movie moment. It just came nine months later.

And in the movie that would be like the closing credit.

And in the movie that would be like the closing credit.

Yeah, you can hear the music.

Yeah, you can hear the music.

Yeah, and it would be.

Yeah, and it would be.

Like hanging the baby exactly.

Like hanging the baby exactly.

You're gazing into each other's eyes and it would be beautiful.

You're gazing into each other's eyes and it would be beautiful.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What actually happened over the next few months you got out of hospital. That must have been a relief.

What actually happened over the next few months you got out of hospital. That must have been a relief.

It was a relief. I really struggled.

It was a relief. I really struggled.

Did the medication work to take away the hallucinations and the psychiotgist.

Did the medication work to take away the hallucinations and the psychiotgist.

Yeah, by then we'd sort of come up with the right medication. I was referred to a brilliant perinatal psychiatrist, doctor Q, and she was the first person who looked at all of the different sort of I amassed all of these different clinicians and their notes and their kind of assessments. And she was the first person who looked at everything and just thought, there's something not right here, There's something that doesn't add up. And she was the first person who said, no, you had a psychotic depression.

Yeah, by then we'd sort of come up with the right medication. I was referred to a brilliant perinatal psychiatrist, doctor Q, and she was the first person who looked at all of the different sort of I amassed all of these different clinicians and their notes and their kind of assessments. And she was the first person who looked at everything and just thought, there's something not right here, There's something that doesn't add up. And she was the first person who said, no, you had a psychotic depression.

I was the first person to explain.

I was the first person to explain.

There's even more to Arian's story, and you can hear the rest of it in part two, where she tells me what a diagnosis of psychosis means, what life was like after she was discharged from the hospital, how she learnt to trust spending time with Henry, and how things went again horribly wrong before she finally turned a corner to where she is now. You can find the link to part two in the show notes, and that's where you'll also find links to some support services that Arianne has provided us. If this conversation has brought up some issues for you and you think you might need some help,

There's even more to Arian's story, and you can hear the rest of it in part two, where she tells me what a diagnosis of psychosis means, what life was like after she was discharged from the hospital, how she learnt to trust spending time with Henry, and how things went again horribly wrong before she finally turned a corner to where she is now. You can find the link to part two in the show notes, and that's where you'll also find links to some support services that Arianne has provided us. If this conversation has brought up some issues for you and you think you might need some help,