Benjamin Watson talks Tom Brady vs Drew Brees, speaking on societal issues, going to graduate school at 43

Published Dec 11, 2024, 11:00 AM

NFL Players: Second Acts

On the NFL Players: Second Acts podcast, former All-Pro Charles “Peanut” Tillman and former Pro Bowler Roman Harper break bread with NFL legends about 
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On the latest NFL Players: Second Acts podcast, former Super Bowl champ and tight end Benjamin Watson joins Peanut and Roman. Benjamin talks about what it was like to play with two of the greatest quarterbacks of all time—Tom Brady and Drew Brees—and how their leadership styles differ. Then, Benjamin explains how he developed his own reputation as a leader in the locker room, how he manages his busy schedule, and learning to give himself grace. He also talks about why he played until he was 39, what it’s like to work for the SEC network, and studying public policy at American University.

The NFL Players: Second Acts podcast is a production of the NFL in partnership with iHeart Radio.

Hey everybody, this is Benjamin Watson, sixteen year NFL VET. I'm an author, a broadcaster, a father, most importantly a husband of twenty years, looking forward to this podcast. Make sure you tune in. This is the NFL Players Second Act Podcast.

Thank you for tuning in to the NFL Player Second Act Podcast.

I'm Pena Tillman and this is Roman Man Harper.

Yeah, yeah, that was your first introduction. Anyways, I want first of all, thank iHeartRadio for letting them for allowing us to have their studios.

Yeah.

Right here in the northwest side of Atlanta.

I call it midtown, but it's all good. We'll be bougie today.

Yeah.

I can't wait to talk to our next guest because he's a former teammate of mine, a great person, and I call him a teammate now on what I'm doing on my side hustle, So Pina introduce him.

A sixteen year NFL VET, Super Bowl champion, broadcaster, author and probably is known as probably the best teammate around the NFL.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Ben watching to show.

Mister appreciate you guys. Thanks, thanks for coming to our knock of the woods and this is not I know, I'm still like fifty minutes away and it was raining in Atlanta, so that traffic is you know.

I hear when the traffic is like really bad. I don't know, I heard. I've never really experienced.

Like outside we're in the in the country. I see I see cows and turkey. I saw some turkeys this morning in all the traffic. But yeah, Atlanta, if you're if you're like.

LA bad, what I've did, it's like sometimes worse than l a bad. Like La is bad, but like Atlanta's just like and it's really because it just stretches for so long. Yeah that from the moment you really started to cross over from Alabama.

Alabama, it's like Alabama all the way like Htol which is almost with the darn the South.

Yeah, you know forever.

I think that's the most frustrating thing about the the traffic here in Atlanta for Ben specifically, Bro, you know how much you mean to me. Uh, I want to tell everybody you know Ben Watson. Uh he goes by Benjamin Watson. I call him Ben. So that's how I'm not offended. Yeah, yeah, I'm not a fan. We can talk about it later.

Yeah, we go.

So Ben became came to New Orleans in twenty thirteen, he'd already been around an NFL VET, and you know what he meant to that locker room, being a veteran presence in there. And some of the funniest stories I remember was because you know, Jimmy Graham was still on this team at this point.

Jim was the quote unquote older tight end was og.

I was in I was the year ten plus at up point.

Yeah, And it was just so funny because I'm like Ben, like, all right, man, they you you're having to block now, and like He's like, look, bro, because I'm like, Jimmy Graham ain't blocked.

You told me to, and they showed them made me block all the time. I was like, dude, I'm not even gonna cover your practice. I know you're not going out for a pass.

I already knew it was this.

Guy for two teams already comes in the D's like, dude, I'm like the blocking tight end. And I was like, so when does that kind of happen in your career? He's like, dude, first of all, no tight ends, Like, bro, I want to be a blocking tight end enough to where like, Okay, now you're going to be a blocker and you either get better at it or you have.

Did you lose the stuff or anything.

No, it was it was the position. Look, Jimmy Graham deserved to be the number. I mean this dude, Honestly, if you would have told me this guy what's going to break all the records, I wouldn't believe it. Yeah, because he because he was on a tear. I'm talking about the last few years there in New Orleans. Probably the best play with a lot of good athletes, probably the best complete athlete I've ever seen, run, jumped, fast, smart, all that time of stuff. And so, yeah, Sean Paynon's offense, but with Sean it was always everybody had a role. Yeah. So you had the one guy who was really fast, take the top off. We're not throwing you the ball, no doubt. Jill Morgan, yep, or meach you're really fast, We're probably not gonna throw you the ball, especially as you get older. Had another guy that was intermediate, had Jimmy where everything flew through went through him. And then you had another guy me who you're gonna be on the backside, You're gonna block. We might throw you a little check down every now and then and do your job. The good thing, however, was because of the muscle memory that Drew Brees had with Jimmy Graham when they traded Jimmy. All of a sudden, I'm in year thirteen having a career year, in year twelve having a career year because I getting all the passes now.

Yeah, so in that year, statistically, you had one hundred and ten targets, seventy four catches, eight hundred and twenty five yards, and I for your career lead in six touchdowns.

Yeah. And year twelve or thirteen, Yeah, I was thirty five years old. My wife's looking at My wife's looking at me like I thought you were gonna retire. I was like, uh.

For the timing kick in, Ben, What was your first welcome to the NFL moment?

Well, had a couple first. And one was the first time I saw Michael Strahan in person. He's a get.

Together large and you're well life together.

Yeah, but this dude and like his arms were by his knees and he could scratch his knee caps and we were playing in preseason and I was thinking he's a d N I called my daddy. I don't think I can. I don't think it's gonna work out for me. I can't bock these guys, you know. So I saw him in person. The other Welcome to the NFL moment.

Was did you even have to block him? Or you just saw me?

I just saw him facing our sideline like Goliath taunting the Israelites, and he was like facing our sideline looking at us. And it was the preseason, like the fourth preseason game. He won't even gonna play. And that was enough. I need, I need to have to mess with him, Praise God. The other one was where I'm practice in New England, and uh, you know, you're a rookie. You're trying to figure everything out. You're just learning the place. You're learning what you have to do, not necessarily what everybody else has to do, and not necessarily about reading the coverages. I just want to know my route. Get that first, so we uh we run a play. I'm out wide, so a while I've got to go route the safety blitzes. I need to run a side adjust I don't run it. And then I hear this thing. It sounds like a torpedo come past my helmet. Tom Brady threw the ball at me and I heard the ball coming, but I wasn't looking for it. It almost knocked me out. And the welcome moment was the fact that, look, it's not just about knowing your route. You got to know three or four things after your route. It ain't enough just to know check the box. I gotta go route. You better read coverage, you know everything else, because he's going to throw you the ball, and then after that you're not going to play anymore because he would he doesn't trust you. Yeah, luckily I got a second chance. But that was just because I was a first round pick.

Oh, I mean that does help.

That that's help.

How about that's all they learned that in the game.

Did you have anything specifically in a game your first like what was like, oh man, this is the league, like.

Ray Lewis hits you or some way like No, I avoided Ray hitting him. I used to get him in coverage a lot, and that was no problem. I wrote Ray up coverage. Yeah, didn't have to block him, Praise God. But I'll tell you one thing, EMMITTT. Smith we played in Arizona.

Damn that Emmitt Smith.

That this is two thousand and four. So this isn't like a welcome to NFL moment where you get hit or anything like that. But this is two thousand and four. He's playing for the Cardinals. We're playing in Sun Devil Stadium in like September, so it was like one hundred and twenty degrees. So we go out there and we're warming up, and then the game starts and then I'm on the sideline and I look out there and the Smith is in the backfield, and I'm like, I'm on the same field as Mma Smith right now. I don't know what it was, but it just like, oh my goodness, that was it. That was it. That was it. I'll never forget that. And then also buying, you know, twelve dozen donuts for Willie McGinnis, what's a big one too, and spending our rookie dinner that year was I think the bill came to forty nine thousand dollars our rookie dinner. Oh so, y'all, SA got the whole team, the whole team, and we all to split it up. Yeah, I remember writing a check for nine grand rookie dinner. Welcome, Welcome to the NFL.

My friend, I had to do just the defense, and my Bill was like fifteen eighteen licked me. And it was really because if you know everybody, you know Charles Grant, so of course of course, CG. You'll take the whole team out. No, no, just the defense, just the defense. They kind of protected me. But then yeah, they also didn't. Yeah, and I remember like one one other rookie, he was like a he was a free agent guy. He ordered a state and then it was like, oh, I didn't. I don't think I wanted that. When I wanted this guy, I said, you're gonna eat that.

They fact, yeah, some choice. I'm sure there was something else that followed you. You said something else, like with your chest.

I thought this will for was gonna go shoot somebody. He was so mad. Dude's walking out of Smith and Willinsky in Boston with bottles of Chris who was walking out putting it in the refrigerator for later on us.

This was about the fight.

Glad they don't do that no more so.

I don't know what year it was, but you're probably Bill Belichick's one of his favorite players, and it was it was voted as it was voted, let me here, let me, let me finish it.

On the set.

You wouldn't know that from you said.

It was voted like probably the eighty fifth best play of there's.

No there's no eighty there's no probably. It was voted eighty fifth. Can you not do that? Just like a terrible, terrible man? Anybody ever told you that you're.

A terrible work wife. I want a divorce, you bad, Come give me somebody else. It was voted the eighty fifth excuse me I received, let me, let me try back.

Let me.

It was voted the eighty fifth best play, the chant Bayley play where you ran him down?

How tired were you?

My high exhausted, But I don't know. I don't know as tired as he was a boat gas both guys. That was you know, I was just mad, honestly because I hadn't called it past that game. I was pissed off, and so that probably fueled all that, you know, chase something down. I'm just mad that back then there were no pile on cameras and so they got they got it wrong, like it should have been a touchback the ball the zone. Yeah, we should have got the ball. Instead they got the ball scored on next player on the one yard line. But it should have been. I know for a fact the ball went out of the end zone. I get back to Boston and literally for years after that, I got people from Harvard m I. T. Talking about They've done case studies on the play, the speed, my speed, his speed, the way we hit collided, the projection of the ball, the elevation, the ball went out of the back of the end zone. Referees got it wrong. I believe it.

I just remember looking at you on the sideline and you just you just like laid there. It bounces off the back of him, his head bounces off the ground.

Man, just he just laid there. He just was I'm sure you just like.

Was like, man, that was pretty impressive. Bro.

He look if I'm champ, I'm low key mad, Like why dobody tell me?

Boys was tired? Yeah, were done?

And the best is.

Like they had they had They had one of the mics over was one of the boom mics. They had a mic over on the Broncos sideline. It was like, who was that?

Who was that?

The tight end like you heard it in their was like the tight end.

Yeah, sleep, I could run back then? Who threw a better football? Drew Brees and Tom Brady?

What do you mean by that?

Who if Ben Watson had to have a catch from one person, that is life depended on it, And I need the I just needed Who's Who's whose one?

You take it? My life depended on it?

Yeah, who's throwing the rock to? Been watching Tom Brady or Drew Brees?

Where are we playing?

Oh my gosh, all these hypothetic You're asking the question I'm asking and then getting mad that you're asking hypothetica.

Where are we playing? What's tom of year? What's the situation? Situational football man? All right?

In the fourth quarter of an indoor game? Who threw a better ball? Shoot Drew Brees and the dome? Baby, it ain't no wind, ain't no sun.

Now if we take that same game, yeah, and we go to Buffalo the fourth quarter and the winner is blowing the gold post sideways. Give me Thomas with Patrick Brady. That's what he does, Jr. Forgot the junior, That's what he does.

Give me, Give me a situation, the environment in or outdoor year, Drew Brady, give to me all.

I like that. What was it like playing for two Hall of Fame quarterbacks like that?

Though?

Like as far as like in and out of the huddle, the way they operate.

Because I practiced against Tom, like we would come up there in scrimmage against them, and so so I've seen him operate and I just love.

His humility, his humility.

I know Drew very personally, but can not be a teammate of Tom and to see his humility, but then also getting guy's face. Make guys do laps when they jump offside. Dude, it's a little different up there. Competitors. They're both competitors.

Yeah, And there's no cookie cutter for a leader, Like there are certain traits that leaders have. They serve, they lead by example, they're vocal, but they're all different in their own way because of their personalities and two totally different personalities. Tom is, as you mentioned, he's boisterous. He'll yelling the scream practice, he's yelling at the defense like that's how he is. Drew is a little more reserved, although he loses it sometimes too, as we all do. But he's not yelling on the sideline. He's more the side, you know, leader that gets things done on the sideline. But they both prepare very well. I remember coming to New Orleans and my first year there. And I walk in there on like a maybe a Friday or Saturday, might have been a Saturday. And I walk into the weight room. You know, we had the fieldhouse right next to the weight room, they know facility, And it was dark in their nor facility except for some shadows. And I look out there and I see this shadow figure out on the field by himself. He was out there for probably twenty thirty forty minutes. And I was talking to the strength coach, ask what Drew was doing out there. Oh, he's going through He's going through his checks in the game plan. This dude was out there in the dark by himself, going through every single play on offense, going through every you see her, every single read, every single read. He's going through by himself, visualizing the game, the preparation of things that these guys do in the dark. I remember coming home, I had an ACL and I was out my rookie year in New England. The team had a game in like San Diego. You know, when you're playing San Diego you're from Boston. That's like a six hour flight, Like you're not getting back to a rush till morning rush hour. The next day if you're playing on a Sunday night. So I come in for rehab early in the morning. The team that played a night game out there in San Diego. Walking there to the locker room, nobody's there. I hear somebody in the weight room. I go into the weight room because I had to do my rehab. Tom's in there working out. Got off the plane set instead of going home, decided to go in there and get his work out in. And so those are the things I think that when you hear guys talk about those two quarterbacks specifically, it's leadership. It's commitment, it's preparation, it's challenging other players, it's lifting guys you know the way they play. It is trust, it's being it's being in the It's being in the in the in the huddle and looking at those guys and saying, which all here, I know, we got a chance to win.

So you're known around the league.

Your reputation around the league is being known as probably a great teammate for one and then two, just like leadership, do you view yourself as being like one of the best leaders or great leaders around the league.

You know, I think that leadership is is is something that that's earned.

Yeah, over time.

I do think that there are certain innate qualities that we all have that can lend themselves to being leaders at a larger scale when we have the right opportunity, right, And so for me, you know, when you're a rookie in the league, your first second, third year, be quiet, learn what to do, especially in New England, you know, be seen not heard, and that was how you operate. Then as you get older, you're automatically a leader once you've been in for a while, you know how it is. Once you get plast eight ten years, you tog you og dude looking at you as a leader, whether you feel like you're a leader or not. And then what's interesting is God God elevates your or your platform from a leadership perspective sometimes when you least expect it. And so for me, really the last five years of my career in twenty fourteen, you remember when I'm in Saint Louis, Missouri, where the officer killed the young black kid and there were riots and people were crying, some people were upset, and then they decided not to indet the officer. I'm a backup, blocking tight end. I'm pissed because look, I love this team, but inside I want to start. I want to play, you know, I want to I want my name to be in lights. But I wasn't on the field. And it was at that moment, really that things transition from a leadership perspective, even outside of the locker room. Because I write this Facebook post about what happened about my feelings, and you know, people see it. I get an opportunity to speak about race and faith in this country and all these sorts of things, and I'm looked at as a as a leader in a different line. But really it's simply because I was just doing what I was supposed to do in the dark, and God decided at that point in time, I'm going to elevate you and give you an opportunity. And I think the lesson there is for leaders that we learn how to be leaders in the mundane, like we learn how to be leaders in the common practices of life. Many times we think of leadership is something that has to be seen in the big lights on television. You gotta have thousands of people following, you know, leaders are forged in the crucible of being responsible, with the responsibilities that you have as a husband, as a father, as a teammate, and then a if you get an opportunity to shine on a larger scale, man, if you're responsible with little, you can be responsible with much.

I mean, like that, that's beautifully said.

Yeah, I'm not surprised.

I mean, this guy does write books, So that's trying to worry it down. You kind of did you kind of did use you just let that.

Was briefully said.

But I'm not surprised.

I mean, like you just.

So good, don't do that. But I will say this though, because I how did that?

Because you went from being an angry, disgruntled, you know, second string tight end at the time. That's happened to block you guys were not you didn't have a great year that year. The Saints did not in twenty fourteen when you started hard. Then you got back because you let us get in the playoffs that year. I'm not saying I'm bragging or anything. But then all of a sudden, I see you on like CNN, and you're not just on TV like talking football.

You're talking everything else but.

That Andry Evince, yeah current Evince politics, and people are looking at you. It is like this guy is in a sport that everybody looks at it is like they're not smart, they're dumb, they're just yeah, yeah, the basketball, play football. They're looking at you like, no, he has the spoken word of a real man. He's got yeah, he's got great ideas, he's got opinions.

What was that like?

How was that I don't even want to call it a transition, but what was that little though, that week, in that time in your life?

What was that like?

Well, you know how it is in the locker room. Look, there's a perception about professional athletes, especially football players. I like to say we're the most educated professional sport, honestly because all our guys, most of them go to college. You know, you got to go Yeah, you go from high school, and so we're educated. We got guys in these locker rooms that are smart, that understand the world, that care about different things, and so like, for me, the the awesome thing was having an ability to express yourself in ways that you hadn't quite before and having an opportunity to speak about things that impact all of us. I mean, we're fathers, right, we're husbands, we were citizens of this country. We care about what happened we come from communities, we live in communities like we have aspirations outside of the game. We want our voices to be heard and understood as much as anybody else, and we deserve that we have dignity as humans that are outside of our ability to play football. And so when you have an opportunity to go on cable news or go speak somewhere and it has nothing to do with football, it's a good feeling at the same time. At the same time, one of the first things that people tell you when you get in the league is use football. Don't let football you just use you right, use football, don't let football use you. And it's because of football that I had an opportunity to do those things. It's because of football that we all have different opportunities because there is a certain platform and gravitize that comes with playing this game. But when it's shifted and you can opportunity to speak about other things, it's also of validating to say I'm not that I'm more than an athlete, but that the totality of who I am is is much greater than the sport.

Did you get a lot of I don't want to say hate, but like negativity towards speaking on some of the current events.

Was there a lot of smoke that came with that.

I mean, I don't even think we called a smoke back then, but yeah, but you know that there's what's what what's cool is they always say, don't talk about politics and religion, you know, but but in football we used to. We talk about all this stuff. Such a different space, exactly.

The safest space you've ever been.

It is just crazy. In corporate incorporate, you can't say nothing like needles, like guys, it's okay like this, these are things we're all thinking about. Let's just talk about it. And so it was cool to see even coaches coming aside and I heard what you said. I agree with it. Although I can't, you know, really talk about it. I will get messages from people that agree with me one hundred percent, people that thought I was a complete idiot in a buffoon, and everywhere in between. People are looking for authenticity. And what I mean by that is, even if we just got out a political election, whenever you see this podcast, it might be a few months ago, whatever it was, but we all still know what happened. We just got out of that. What we yearn for, even in people that we don't agree with, is authenticity, Like we want them to be convicted with their convictions and be true and truth like live with integrity. And even the people that didn't agree with me, they say, you know, I don't agree with you. I don't know about this God's stuff. I'm not a person of faith, or I think that race is fine in America, whatever. But I trust you because I think you really mean the best for Peaple and so to me, that's that's what it's about. So if you're getting the smoke, if you're getting the hate, you know what, that's fine to be challenged. Everybody doesn't have to agree, but we should be able to trust that we have each other's best interest in our heart. Yeah.

Yeah, So I have this quote from the Cost of good Leadership, and I want to know how you tried to model yourself as a player and in your everyday life. I'm gonna read the quote through you first.

Okay, good leadership is about managing your burdens well while being willing to sacrifice for others. Understanding the cost of leadership will help you become someone worth following.

How does that?

How do you think you try to portray those characteristics in your everyday life and then specifically even more in a locker room, especially as you became who you have become.

Yeah, man, I started off a New Ingland with the Patriots, and uh, we want a lot, but a really tough place to play for one of them places where there's high expectations, a lot of accountability. But one of the things when we used to come into the into the building in New engl on the door you had all these things you saw, you saw a version of them in New Orleans. Yeah, because they all come from the same coaching tree. Everybody copies everybody else. But one of the things is put the team first. And leadership is about being a servant. That's anesthetical to how we many times think about leadership. Who's always in the front automatically a quarterbacks, a leader automatically, a spokesperson as a leader automatically the person that's making the most in NIL now if you're in college, is a leader. But true leadership is serving us, agree, and we do that in different ways. One of the ways we do that is if it's if it's your role run down on special teams and you're the starting safety ben the Pro Bowls, and you do it to the best of your ability. You're a leader, but you're a leader. People are watching that when you respond a certain way to disappointment or losing, you're a leader. People are watching you when they ask you to do something for someone else on the field, or let's let's let's translate it. Let's move it to home. When you come home and your wife has been home all day and you're tired, and you know she's tired, but you put her knees first and allow her to have a reprieve when you want one, you're being a leader. And so for me, what I've what I saw and what I tried to do in the locker room was man, be a trusted voice, be authentic voice. Be someone who is, yes, a leader in my performance and my consist see on the field, but also somebody who understands that man leadership really is about servant. Like you know, you're a leader when when people are in crisis and having trouble in their personal life, they seek you out. Yeah, a lot of times they don't seek out the guy who's the most popular, who seems to have the fastest car and all the girls. They may not seek him out when they're having problems, when they're struggling internally with something with fear of failure, spiritually, someone passing their family, they're facing a scary situation, they're on the bubble, whatever it may be. Years later, somebody may call you up. Man, I was with you in the locker room. I was doing my thing. Man, can you help me out in this situation. That's that's leadership, and that's where I'll strive to be.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that. You said the leaders they run down on special teams.

I'm on this dude never played. He just refused to place for the teams. Like, I will not let that wright, I will not.

I've just seen him, Yeah on kick Off. I've seen him in Kickoff. That's what I'm talking about. I don't do that.

Don't on this food.

He's just mad because like, I'm not a special teams guy.

Like I'm I'm sorry.

I wasn't.

If you had to, yeah, as you to. He never asked me to. I did pustle a personal protector a couple of times. Yeah, I s before I got to watch the film.

I don't believe I wasn't a sweet located. Yeah, to make it sweet though, he had to make it different than everybody else, Like, you know, he had to put his own sauce on it.

We're gonna take a short break and we'll be right back.

You're a writer, speaker, author, uh, correspondent, film TV.

You got seven kids? Damn he was only going for six.

My husband, I'll call that one of the most important Jesus was your husband. Like, where do you find a time to one speak about the things you want to speak about? Again, as I alluded to earlier, you you you speak about current events, Like where do you have the time to do any of this? Because that's that's a lot.

Yeah. I don't do good with my time. I don't. One thing I'm trying to do better with is my replenishment cycles and taking time for myself for things that are important to me to have that cycle so that I have enough to give out. I've experienced burnout in some you know, some regards. I think that one of the toughest things in retiring, I guess almost five years ago now was like a lack of schedule. Yeah, a lack of a schedule and a lack of a cadence. Like everything in life, date night is predicated on Tuesday being your day off or Thursday, whenever you want to do it. Like your vacations, you know what you got to do here, you have a sense of accomplishment. And then when I retired, it was like, you get all these opportunities, what do you say no to? What do you say yes to? And next thing you know you're spent seven in the morning is whatever at night. My dog gets done with ballet at nine thirty at night. And I'm trying to figure out when I had time to really do anything and take a breath. And so when do I have time? It comes in spurts. One thing I'm learning is when I'm home to be present. I've known that that's nothing new, but as busy as we are as fathers, as businessmen, whatever we're doing, when you're home, you got to be present. Like your kids don't care how much money you make, they don't care how much you're on TV. I had a time I came home from SEC Network from the weekend and my daughter, she was seven years older at the time, and she said, Daddy, I saw you on TV this weekend. I said, yeah, how she said, man, you look you look really really happy. You were smiling. Why don't you smile when you're at home?

Oh?

But but what she was saying was, man, you go out here and you work and you you you perform and you put out there, and then when you get home when we need the best of you, you're drained and you're moping around and you're in a a in a sense of duty here at home.

How was I received?

I received it like, man, Yeah, I needed that. I need that correction, and it was better coming from your daughter than the way. But when that happens, you thank them for telling you. You that, man, Thank you that. Thank you for telling Daddy that I can make changes here. And So getting back to your question about when when I have time to do things, I blocked time during certain times of the year for certain things. You know, this is SEC time, this is this is SEC network time. The majority of my time is preparing for the weekends for broadcasting and watching him, you know, do his thing and talk about the football games. You know, in the off season. There's the other things that I'm doing. But one of the things that I'm always doing is being with the kids as much as I can. We had a wrestling match last night, my son's first wrestling match. Did he win? Both? The matches went very quickly. He did not win either. They just want you to thirty seconds.

Hey, how are you enjoying doing the s TV on the SEC networ I don't think I've ever asked you that. Yeah, man, I'm in I'm enjoying like seeing the storylines. I'm enjoying this time of year when I know the teams. I don't enjoy getting to know the teams like I don't enjoy the first six weeks of the city season.

Yeah, the talking where everybody's like playing these outer conference games. They're gonna win by seventy points. You don't know who's good and who's not. All you know is some statistics, Like I don't enjoy that. I do enjoy like understanding, man, this team is really good at this and they're gonna match up like this against this team and seeing how that goes. You know, That's that's that's intrigued. That's intriguing to me. I enjoy being in studio with the guys, you know, I enjoy the camaraderie. I don't enjoy the fact that we don't leave the studio till one in the morning. I suffer for three days trying to catch up with sleep off that where's the sec Charlotte, Arlotte? Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah there in Valentine. Yeah, we're in Arlotte.

But so the nightly show that he's on was the one I first started on.

And so when I went back on the road because COVID lifted, I went back on the road. That's when Ben came in right behind me and he did the night show. And the night show is great, Like the guys there are awesome, a whole bunch of laughs, be funny a lot, But then it's also like, well, you don't know what time that thing gonna end. Like whenever that last game rolls through, that's when you get started.

But before that, there all day long, all day long, halftimes and post games and fills when you know when there's lightning delays, all.

That good stuff.

Yes, So, where so you talked about the priorities and where you know you more of a season, No, guy, when this season happened, This is where I'm at when this season happens, where it's this, How long is it taking you to kind of figure out a good schedule? Because like it's taking me years where I'm like, okay, I kind of like where I'm at. All this day is focused on this, this day, is this this day, I'm taking the kids to school because my wife's grinding on it and I want to just let her sleep even though she's not going to.

Yeah. Yeah, it's been a work in progress and I still don't have it all. And I think also it was about giving myself some grace through my football career. I don't know about you guys, but man, every day had a focus and a checklist every day, down to your car practicor your massage, your meals. Obviously the practice schedule, all that type of stuff, but every day was really set during the season and now, man, things change a bit, and what was frustrating was that I didn't have this set schedule. But now I'm understanding, Look, there are certain priorities, but also give yourself some grace. Give yourself some grace, Like if you don't if you don't hit something today that you needed to hit today, it's okay. Yeah, it's okay. That's big. Like the world is going to keep going. You're gonna be fine, you know, And as a as an athlete, I struggled with that, like, oh my gosh, I'm not gonna be prepared if I don't get this done right now because I had to go pick up the kids from here or and I want to pick them up because I'm available now. It's not like I have to be anywhere, And so giving myselfself some grace has been big. I went and did a thing called life playing a little while ago, and it's an intensive two day process where you kind of map your life and kind of find find uh, you know, your calling, your mission, the things that you're good at, how you're designed, what you need to replenish and to be at your best, how to filter out no's and yes's for different opportunities. Man, should I pursue this business? Should I not do this?

This?

This isn't gonna be fulfilling for me. And it really gave me kind of a sense of of clarity as far as look, these are the things that are priorities in your life, like these you don't give up. You know, family, you know your mission, your faith, whatever it is. These are things that can kind of rotate a bit. These are things that are going to drain you. You might be good at them. You might have an opportunity to do them, but man, you're not wired to do that. And so that's that's kind of the work in progress I mentioned where you know, it's it's it's it's a discovery time, I think. I think Roman like right now I'm at the first four years out of the league or a lot of ups and downs, even emotionally, like I mean, there are times where I go see a psychiatrist, to be honest with you, and I just feel like, dude, I don't know what what am I accomplishing, what am I doing? And those are really real feelings, all feelings of like depths. And so now I feel like four years out, five years out, almost starting to see like this next life and all that has to offer and it's and it's okay.

Was it hard to make that decision to go talk to somebody?

Yeah? Yeah, I remember the first time I wanted to go see a psychiatrist. I was in year six in New England, my last year there actually year five in New England, and I was just having stress, headaches, I was I was just overwhelmed and we didn't have kids at the time, and my wife told me, you need to go see somebody, I want to go see somebody. That was my first entry into what now is like mental health. I mean this was this was two thousand and eight. Yeah, yeah, like won't nobody going to see that type of help. But that was my first experience there and it helped me finish out my years there and kind of a different outlook. But then fast forward to now, it still was difficult to admit that you that you that the walls are closing in. Yeah, you know that that you're that you're in a place that you can't get yourself out of. You can't work yourself out of this. You need help. But what's crazy is as soon as you take that first step, you have that first consultation, like, man, why haven't I done this before? Yeah? What is the shame? There ain't no shame in it. We don't have shame when we go get our car fixed. We don't have shame when we go get a massage because we've got a bad hamstring. Like why should we be ashamed to go have somebody help you with your life? Yeah, you know, and with some of the some of the with some of the chemical struggles that you're dealing with. We repair everything else it's the same thing.

Yeah, that was a I think that's a great way to say. We talked about that earlier. One about showing each other a little bit more grace.

But two part of the hardest thing for us as athletes, but help black athletes, Like it's just kind of a it's kind of a stigma, like it's taboo growing up in a black home or household to go and talk to someone about like what's going on up here. It's kind of look kind of look down upon, you know, within within the community.

I would say, yeah, for sure, I think everybody has to.

You have to figure out a way to where Ben saying like you at some point you get comfortable enough or you get scared and you're like I got to do something, Yeah, because you know something is just not right.

I want to know.

I want to tell you something else. That's that.

I would look on the outside and say, I don't know if it was right either, Ben, that was you playing football to you or thirty nine years old.

Even though I don't know.

If Kirston was here, she'd be like, I know it wasn't right, especially because like you know, you'd had a couple of injuries.

Yeah, you tore, you tore achilles, You rupture your achilles out over you. I was I was thirty six, Yeah, thirty six with the Yeah, okay, which is it?

Sit down stage? You shut it down six months? Yeah, ain't doing nothing.

Change my whole change my whole life.

Oka really all right? And you still had all these other things going on. I think you're being an author at this time. You've written a book. Yeah, you, like I said, you've been on CNN like doing all these things. You You've been pulled in many, many different directions, Yet you chose to still try and roll back out there.

Why?

Man? Why? Why? I'm a personally has a strong sense of commitment to a fault. I feel like once I start something, I can't walk away from it, even if it's beating the crap out of me. Yeah. I also felt like, man, there were things in this game that I wanted that I hadn't accomplished yet, Like what going to the Pro Bowl? You never been able, no real going to the Pro Bowl. As stupid as that sounds right now, it's forty three, almost forty four right now. As stupid as that sounds right now, there were things that I thought I could maybe do at thirty six years old. You ain't going over. You ain't been, you ain't going you know what I'm saying. But then I was thinking, Man, I'm gonna come back from this. I'm gonna make it to the Pro Bowl. I've deserved it in the past. I'm gonna earn this accolade. You mentioned being a super Bowl champ, right, the Super Bowl that I played and we lost, the Super Bowl that we won, I had an acl I want to be back on the field for Super Bowl, right. I want to make a little bit more money, no doubt. There's never enough. Billionaires say the same thing. It's never enough. When is it really enough? You know, a whole litany pride, you know, identity. Yeah, hey, I've been I put a lot into this, Like I put a lot of blood, sweat, tears, as they say, like emotional scars. I fought through a lot of stuff. I came back from a lot of stuff, moved my family around like this. This is not who I am, But man, this is a big part of who I am, right, you know, Like if I don't do this, who am I? Yeah? You know, that's it's tough to say, but that's those are the things that kept me going. And a lot of people say, man, you know you got this beautiful family. Yes I do. You got his wonderful wife, Yes I do. We'll be married. We've been married twenty years. Next year it'll be twenty years. You've got all these things going for you. Yes I do. Man, you've had seven cushions, yep, you had a cl You've had achilles, You've had I had everything. Yeah, why why are you still playing well? Because those things I still feel like I want to do, And so that's why I kept going. But and then there was this other part of it as well, that, man, my last I would say, my last five years in the league or probably the sweetest as far as impact goes, because there's this other side that says, Okay, if I'm going to be in this locker room, I have a chance to impact young men's lives, which impacts generations like I may be the only guy that has to the status to look at them and say, man, what are you doing with that girl? What are you doing with these kids? You haven't seen your kid? And how long you can? You know what, you can be a dad even if you didn't have one. Right, what I'm saying like you can change the course of your entire family treat I believe that about you. I can talk to another guy and say, hey, man, you're struggling with this man. This is what scripture says about your situation. And so there was this desire to achieve and attain. For sure, there was also this, man, I don't know how much longer I'm have this opportunity to be in this locker room and impact these young men outside of the game for eternity. I don't want to I don't want to take that for granted. So I wanted to be on mission, you know, in that respect, Like, Okay, if I'm going to be in this locker room and keep playing, it's gonna suck in a lot of ways. I can't wait till game day because i'ma have some good medicine and my body's gonna feel good. Practice is gonna be terrible. Yeah, But I can also impact these young men like that. That was my goal.

And at that point the NFL locker room hat completely flipped upside doubt, where like it wasn't older vets anymore. It was like one or two maybe, and then it was a whole bunch of young guys. So what you were saying is true value and impact. That's something I served at least, I just was not even thinking, but really truly serving.

I really felt that when you was talking to me, like I need to be a better dad, and I know you was used to me as an example, but like the way you looked at me, it was very intentional. I was like, yeah, I do need to be a better dad. I don't know my dad, but I know my dad. But it made me feel like I was like, damn, I feel that.

Okay, that was yeah, that was good. Have you gotten over not accomplishing all those goals?

That's that's part of my journey, even with my psychologists, it's part of it. It's part of like, it's part of the part of the process of moving on in total contentment and being totally I guess forward facing. It's part of it. It is getting over some of those things, and no, I haven't gotten over some of those things.

That is that a good thing for you to be able to say no, I haven't. It's it's a true thing, yeah, because you always do that though.

Yeah, for the most part, I could say that, you know, it's it's almost embarrassing to say a bit. Yeah, you know, it's it's embarrassing a bit to say it could be, but I'm confident in that. Yeah, you know, there are some things that that I haven't gotten over. And and it's certain times a year. Hm, there's certain times a year when certain things are announced. There's certain teams make.

This you know, Yeah, triggers.

What would have been? You play it out in your mind a different way, But that's that's part of the process.

So I think my trigger is super Bowl. Oh, there's no I never I never won a super Bowl.

He always throws it in my face and I'm and I'm your friends, Yeah we are, right, the biggest jerk, the biggest jerk.

But Ben like he's like, I'm gonna put off my ring right now.

Yeah, he does like that all the time.

But then then like it's also where I get very triggered when we bring up super Bowl fifty because like I have this this secret vendetta that what happened, and I'm just like it was really good, but like it ended terrible in my opinion, and it's because of this this that so.

I was that or is that a thing?

Though?

Like I know, I know our Super Bowl. So that was the twenty eighteen Saints Rams.

Oh yeah, that's that's definitely true.

That made me another year.

I gotta get this ye this way, I was done. I was retired. I was I was done. Yeah, I was like, I'm not playing more. Even after that game, I was like, I'm done. It got to be like May and June and I started thinking I can't. I can't. No, no, it can't in that way, go back, run back out there like an idiot.

It's so I'm real big on like education, right. I went back to school in twenty fifteen. I got a degree.

I wanted my kids to see that I graduated. Now, I know you're in school right now. Where are you going and what are you studying?

Yeah, I'm actually on a break because of the football season. I realized I can't do it. At the same time, yeah, but I have completed a full year at American University fully online. American University is a probably university in Washington, d C. And I'm studying getting a masters in Public administration and public Policy. I mean, I was a finance major at Georgia. I was you know, never never thought I'd do anything like this, But just because of conversations and places spaces that I've been in. Want to have a better understanding of policy, how it impacts communities and people administration. So it's been it's been fun. My intro class was I was like, Okay, I'm gonna be cool with this, and then they pulled out like, you know, the legal aspect in all these court cases, which was interesting but difficult. And then it got to budgeting and you know, corporate budgeting, not corporate budd like cities and managing all this stuff. So it's been challenging, but it's been it's been good to think, to think in a different way, to do something different. Part of it was I want to challenge myself to think. So I don't know what I'm to do with it, I want to challenge myself in a different way.

I like the fact that you're going back to school.

I got my I think I grabbed my degree in like twenty fifteen during the season and U or I know, I graduate the summer of twenty fifteen when I was in Charlotte. And We've had all types of guests come on this podcast, and I'm I'm real big on like staying green and you're either green and growing or ripe and rotten.

And I always want to stay green and just keep growing and keep learning, learn something new.

I proposed that me and this guy go back and we get an NBA, Like I'm down to get a second master's, so I'm trying to get him.

Okay, I'm like, come on, let's let's do it. Let's go get our nbas.

Like the legal pay for it, exactly right, Yeah, leg pay for it, so you we're gonna get reimbursed. Like let's let's go get this. Let's go get this bread, let's go get it. Come on, all right, you know what because Ben's here, Let be real, honest, all right. Number one, neither of you guys saw me as a student. Number shoot, I did, And I ain't trying to go back. I don't want to have nothing to do with none of that.

None of that.

I ain't gonna lie. Like like the prospect of going back to school, it sounds good, and then like you realize you're forty something years old, and it's just like I'm on the zoom calls with these kids getting these kids getting their masters, and I feel like I'm an old person on this call. These folks are fresh out of college and they know how to use to calculator and do everything. I don't know. I had that. My daughter showed me about Canva, how to do a presentation on Canva. Canva. It's like this the site where you can make slide shows and presentations. I'm up here talking about like powerpoints.

You know.

It's not a thing.

See, this is what you want to send me out like that. You know you got to Google docs.

And all that stuff.

You can send me out there like that. I'm straight.

We've all had some success in our lives, and we've all had people to kind of shape and mold us and kind of who we are today. If you had to put four people on your mount rushmore of influence. Who with those four people?

Just people in general who have influenced me? Yes, sir, First one will be my father. Yep, first one be my dad, Ken Watson. Daddy is sixty eight years old now living in Rocky Hill, South Carolina, still pastoring the church there that you planet. I'm the oldest of six kids. He was the disciplinarian, but also the one who nurtured us. He and my mom. This leaders in a lot of ways was best man of my wedding. So the first one would be my dad because he's my hero, Like he's the one I always wanted to be like. I still want to be like my dad. So he's the first one. Second person I would say, man, David Patton, DP. Yeah, DP. And I've never had anybody ask me this question before. But the reason why I say him, especially in this context is when I was a rookie, I was engaged. We got engaged right before my rookie year, got married after my rookie year. And in that locker room, my locker room right next to David Patton, and he would always talk about his wife, like all the time, like he sent her flowers, He sent him flowers. His family was in South Carolina, so we had that connection. And he was the one person in the entire locker room that said, man, this is a good thing. You can do it, like you can be married in this league, you can have you can have a you know, a relationship. Man, I'm proud of you for doing this. And again, he was one of those veteran players, one of one of those veteran voices. You know, I miss him. He's passed away, but you know, he was a guy that when I think about leadership, man, he's he's there. Man. This person, No, it doesn't have a face. He walked this earth two thousand years ago, and I probably shouldn't name him first, but it's Jesus Christ. Fully man Fully, God died for our sins, made it so that we could be made right with him. The entire scripture is about that one person. And the one thing I do every day. I try to do every day is read my Bible because there is truth in God's work. And when I look at my life, I look at my perspective on life. It all comes because of my relationship with Jesus Christ. So he's on there, even though we don't know what he looks like. His face is on there. And then lastly will be my wife. You know, we'll be Kirsten. We've been married for going on twenty years. She's my best friend. She challenges me, she sharpens me. She's my help meet. As Scripture talks about it, you know, when the two become more flesh. She's the one I trust the most. She's the one whose opinion matters the most. You know, from anything from what I'm worrying to how I'm speaking to things that I would do. She's she's the why not. She's the one that tells me who's more reserved? Man, go try this? Go do this, yes, go try to do TV. See if it works. Yes, go do these sorts of things. She's she's my best friend. So yeah, that was a good question, dude, and I never thought about that. Yeah, the first time.

We ever did it.

I like it.

Kirsten is the happiest pregnant woman I've ever seen.

That.

Did you tell her?

I said that pregnant the happiest I've never seen. The pregnant woman is happiest, just.

Like she won't happy with her last two. We never finished the story, but you were right. You slid that in her talking. We really wanted six. So basically we had five. Yeah, we talked about having four. Let me so this started even way before this.

So Ben Watson is the first person because I had two girls and I was like, I don't think I can have boys.

Then watch is the only person that I was like, dude, you can do it. You can do this, bro. Man. I had two girls first, and look at me, I got like four two boys. Now, like through though, the first thing it's like, bro, you can do it. You can do this. You gotta you can control this.

Yeah, you get nervous.

He's like, well you can't.

But I tell you what, like, I'm so glad I had those girls first. Me too, dude, my girls. My boys are boys are idiots. I'm just gonna say it like like they are. So we had two girls, and we had two boys, and we had another girl. Yeah, I was fine, and.

He's like, we gotta go even number.

She said, I was good. I'm good at fine, Like even number I can five is good, Bob is good. She wants everybody to have, you know, a friend on the roller coaster and even numbers a partner and everything. And so yeah, we tried for number six sadly after we had if you knew we had two miscarriages, number six. Yeah, and find out at that point, man, there's a lot of people that struggle with that. We didn't know. It's a very it's a very common occurrence, but one that we as a community like just don't do well. We don't comfort people.

Nobody wants to talk about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And.

It impacts women, but impacts impacts fathers as well, like losing a child is a big deal. And so we went through that twice living in Baltimore by ourselves, had the Achilles like. It was a really really low time for us as the family. And then we said we'll try one more time. We moved to New Orleans. I go in there to look at the ultrasound picture. At this point, I already know like what everything is, and we're scared because of the miscarriages. She said, they're a baby in there, and the lady goes, well, I don't see one, I see two. So we go from five to seven. So we still uneven. But seven is a number of completion and we are complete and perfect.

We ain't gonna have a complete I'm out another game about I'm out bro No, But I I thought it was hilarious because going to six and they got seven, nobody we ain't.

Nobody got twins.

So she won't happy in that pregnice dog she was, Yeah, she was not happy.

She was happy without she's you know, I've seen her through three pregnants and she was the happiest.

Them twins are different, dude, They got it, Dude. Them twins try the man. They tried to They tried to kill her. The twins identical boys. They literally try to like take everything from her. They're five years old now. Whenever they disrespect their mama. God, dude, I will smack your face off, like if you know, you know right, she ain't going through that having other ones, but you you better never say anything better.

It's well funny, hey, well, thank you give me that confidence too, dog. I forgot to mention that the first one.

Dude, just make sure went a little wrong in them, you know, when they go do great things of life. Just make sure I get a ticket.

I got you, dog, I got the same that. Uh well, anyways, man, thank you as always been man.

Appreciate it. Bro, You're a blessing everywhere you go, into every room you're into. So continue on your happiness, on your journey. I love calling you a teammate now again being with the network, we still text and talk about all those things, and we get to talk college football, which we both love. So and everybody. He also went to Duke as well. He's not just a Georgia guy, So I'm a double dog.

I don't think I knew that. Nobody knows that. But he started out at Duke and he went to Georgia stuff.

Before the transfer report.

Yeah he was like the original past that.

Exactly.

Yeah that was weird. Yeah but uh anyways, thank you man.

To all of our listeners and viewers out there wherever you pick up your podcast, whether it's iHeartRadio, app or Apple podcasts, thank you always for tuning in. Give us a five star rating, like comment, subscribe, give us a review. You can also see us check us out now on the new NFL YouTube channel. I appreciate that, peanut.

Thank you man.

Anyways, I always say, man, tell a friend to tell a friend to do what PU tell a friend.

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