NFL Explained is a production of the NFL in partnership with I Heart Radio. All Right. It's a brand new edition of the NFL Explained podcast by Yamlaw with my Super Bowl champion friend Michael Robinson. Ready to rock and Roll and rob You and I got into a little bit of an argument before we started the show. Millennial. I'm fringe. I kind of want to be gen X because I think there's a there's like a vibe about millennials that like not necessarily like the positive that I don't feel like I'm aligned with. You classify yourself also as French millennial. Yes, yes, we are friends millennials, right, I'm an early eighties baby, Mike. So at the end of the day, I remember when we didn't have social media. I remember when we got social media, and I'm not totally addicted to it. So that makes me a fringe, makes us fringe millennial. I'm glad you classified your your non addiction to social media is I'm not totally addicted to it as in because I hang with you sometimes like you're you're on it, so uh, and I know people do that you are you are and people keep dming me questions which by the way, I always brings a smile to my face, and of course keep them coming because there's another bad episode around the corner. I bring up this whole millennial thing because it kind of pertains to what our subject matter is for this episode. But is there like a memory, like something specific from your childhood that just doesn't exist anymore that you wish did? Blockbuster like vhs, LL tapes like bro like that used to be something in my household. We used to go rent movies and guess what, we take it back, you know what I mean, and go get something else. What a notion, you know I'm saying. I don't think the kids these days, even Julie understand, was like a ritual. It was a thing in my household, and it just let us know that we can stay up late, eat popcorn and all those things. So it kind of I don't know what's set the move for going into the weekend. Yeah, it was like a big thing on a Friday and my mom would drive me. I used to get to pick the movie, but you know, m rob like there was that cut off time that that needed to be seen and done because we weren't paying the extra late fee like that was exactly not exactly. I bring this up because for as much as we remember and the glory days, because I still classify some of that stuff as glory days. You know, the NFL game has changed as well. In fact, when m Rob, when you and I were listening to our walkman's and our discmand's, running backs were reigning supreme. So today's NFL explained, we are all about the running back position, specifically the decline. And I know I kind of write the decline. Doesn't it feel bad to say we're here dancing and then you say the decline and I'm like, I don't know, We'll see yams. I hear that narrative of a lot, right, But like when you talk to defenders, they're like, man, I'd rather I'd rather go on the pass, Like if you got one of those guys, man, it's it's I don't really want to play against those guys all the time. I think it's maybe NFL offenses involving as well. Well. There is an episode on the evolution of offenses, uh, the evolution of wide receivers. If you've missed any of those episodes, bad job by you, but it's all good. You can make up for. You can check out a couple of those podcasts that M Rob and I did earlier this season. I do think it's important to go through some of the philosophies around the usage of running backs, but also in the Super Bowl era, what we've seen in terms of teams actually taking them. And I actually remember this switch go off in my head around fantasy drafts where you started to maybe even step away a little bit. At times you just realize, like, oh my god, the production for some of these running backs when I was a kid just different than what they were as I got a little bit older, So your draft strategy started to change a little bit. Check this out, Emrod. The number of running backs taken in the top ten of the draft, it has taken a big dive here. Nineteen seventies, you had seventeen taken in the top ten. The eighties when when we were just getting born as millennial eighties, there were seventeen. The nineties, it dipped a little bit to twelve. The two thousands still the greatest age of hip hop. I don't care what anyone says. Nine seven and I know we're still early in the twenties, but M Rob it's a doughnut right now. Zero running backs have been taken in the twenties. In fact, since the Giants State took one of our guys, say Kwon Barkley. The four years without a running back taken in the top ten, it's the longest stretch in league history. To me, that is just mind boggling. And rob to hear numbers like that, it is mind boggling. And it's only mind boggling because of how much the running back meant to the game early on, right, And I think that there's just so many different factors that come into place when you run in the football games, it's eleven on eleven. Like it's eleven guys, it takes all eleven players, even the quarterback carrying out. It's fake. It takes eleven people to run the football. And it's a physical thing, right and you know, our game is physical. Football is physical. But as we're trying to make the game a little safe for all players and things like that, I think the evolution of the passing game along with you know, being safer, I think that's why you're seeing a little bit of I don't want to use the word decline and running back to Yams. But I'm gonna say a little bit of looking at the running backs is a little is less importance to an offense. The usage has definitely changed, and we'll get into some of those usage numbers, but I think there might be some fans listening right now that go all right, Yams, you went top ten in terms of the running backs. What about first round guys? Well, there's also been and I don't know what other words to use other than decline and rob sorry my friend in the first round, but just just to just set the stage here, seventies there was forty four running backs take him in the first round. The eighties they were actually fifties slight uptick, and then it started to go downhill. Nineties thirty four running backs to two thousands, thirty sixteen, and in the twenties just three running backs take him in the first round. As for number one overall running backs, the last running back to go number one overall? Any idea and Rob like, I feel like you might have at least somewhat of an idea just kind of knowing your history. Who that Yeah? Okay, good Johnah Carter, you already know I knew that one. I mean that's one of those ones. I mean, you remember the rose Bow when he brooke first play all the way, I mean, don't get me started, don't give me started. When you go to Penn State, do they just like have that on like a video loop, like just moments like that. In my head, it does. You know what I'm saying. It's nowhere like FOA, but in my head, yes, it is there. Uh well, m Rob. We actually have six running backs that have been drafted first overall in the Super Bowl era. Ricky Bell in seventy seven or O Campbell in seventy eight, Billy Sims in eighty, George Rogers and one Bo Jackson in a six, and then Carter and n side note. I saw a video and it was we at some point m ROB should do an episode about the best athletes to ever play football. Bo Jackson's gotta be on that list and Dion Sanders. I saw baseball clips of the two of them playing each other. It was somewhere on social media somewhere. I was like, dude, Bow was no joke. Bow is still probably the best athlete I think the world has ever seen. I'm with you on that one. I mean again, I don't want to talk about his injury too much, but to me, he almost ran up out of his hill. I mean you just look at how he was running to do so powerful off each single leg. I I remember that baseball catch really kind of ran up on the wall baseball wall. Oh, he's like straight up spider Man. Yes, yes, so you know how fast you gotta be running to actually do that, actually make that jump and stick to the wall as you're running. I mean, it's just it's just phenomenal, man, What a great athlete. What's after Millennials? Is it gen Z? I have no idea. Okay, so for that have no idea. I think it is so yeah, because X is before. So for the gen Zers or the young millennials, please YouTube Bo Jackson highlights. Trust me, it'll be worth like the five minutes to go down this EA path and maybe you'll never get out of the rabbit hole. UM. I mentioned sa Kwon Barkley a little bit earlier here. He's one of those guys that I think has been as dynamic running back when he's healthy that we've seen in the NFL. But you tell me, m ro because we're seeing the numbers decline in terms of produce, maybe not production, actually a little bit on the production side, But in terms of going in that first round, what are those traits? Like Barkley was special enough to be taken in the first round, in the top five, But is there something that you would point to for the traits that a current running back needs to have to be successful on Sundays? Well, I think again, and it goes back to the style of offenses that's being presented in the National Football League right now. We gotta we gotta be honest about things. Our game revolves around the quarterback position. Pass Rushers get paid a lot of money. Guys that can protect those guys get paid a lot of money. Now you're seeing an uptick and receivers, the guys catching the ball from those guys make a lot of money. And when you look at the running back position, it's really the only position where when when me as a running back, Yams I get the football, for a lot of times it's seven yards behind the line of scrimmage in all eleven defenders all eleven of have their eyes on you and start to attack the line of scrimmage to make the tackle. Like when a wide receiver catches the ball twenty yards down feel, the fifteen yards down feel. He may have two or three guys, three or four guys if you if you got guys tracing and coming back to make the tackle. But that's what makes the running back position like so unique. And I think that's why I take such a toll on guys. And when you talk about generational backs like a se Kwan Barkley, who I believe is a generational back, a guy like a Marshawn Lynch beastmo with the guy that I played with, who I believe, Um, those guys are generational backs to me. You can put them in any offense. Okay, they can run any scheme and they're super explosive. They're the guys that scare defensive coordinators like that they may go eighty yards for a touchdown like and totally outrun the defense. I remember when Reggie Bush came in with me when we first came in the National Football League in two thousand and six. The talk around, man, if this guy gets on the corner. I mean, I was attempted before the Niners and we play them, and I think you scored two or three touchdowns just being in space and out running everybody. So to me, from a generational backstandpoint, it doesn't matter what offense that you're in. You can do anything, you can catch, you can protect all of those things. But just playing the position and being serviceable in the position. And I know a lot of our listeners may not agree with me or understand this, but number one, you gotta be coachable. You can't just go out there and do what you want to do because you think that you know you're able to outrun everybody. And you see what I'm saying, and does one thing my running back coach told me in Seattle, Sharrem Smith. He used to always say, I can coach you from point A to point B, but after point B, that's what the creator made you for. That's you. You see what I'm saying. So I think sometimes running back coaches get themselves in trouble about over coaching the position, you know what I mean. So Number one, as a player, you got to be coachable. You gotta understand scheme and things like that. I think number two, whether generation or any type of running back contact balance. Again, I just described scenarios where all eleven guys are coming after you when you get the football five to six yards behind the line of scrimmages unlike any other position. So oftentimes you're gonna have to go through some dirt, You're gonna have to go through some trash. You're gonna have to be able to take hits, you know what I'm saying, And and and and get through this orchestration of blocking to get you to the second level so that you can be very special and do with the creative puts you on just planning to do, and that's run, make people miss, and be explosive and things like that. I'm not gonna sit here and say right now that having that super breakaway speed is something that you have to have at the position. But definitely being coachable, having contact balance and obviously not turning the football over, being able to get hit and not cost the football up, and obviously getting dirty three or four yards things like that, to me, that would get you on the field, and um, depending on the level of skill you have throughout that little checklist of some things that I just threw out there to me, that would determine, you know, how much you get the football, how much will use you in the office. You brought up Marshawn Lynch and Reggie right, So to me, you classified them both as generational, but I think they did it so differently, right, I mean you just talked about Reggie just doing it in space like I think about beast just running over you. Am I hold up, Hold up, I want to correct you. And maybe I misspoke. I wasn't saying Reggie was generational. Back. What I was saying is his speed, right when you put him in space like Sean Payton did totally mess defenses up. No, No, what I mean. And being the fact that he's a running back that contact balance, he can break tackles, and I think you're starting to see that with guys like Tyreek Hill and things like that. When you talk about beast mode, Yeah, if you're a pack team guy, you come back. People don't remember beasts over that cow. U Oh yeah. Dude was like two five pounds. He caught bubble screens and would go ninety yards. You know what I'm saying. The b smoke thing came when when he did encounter contact, it was like, dude, he was like the Tasmanian devil. He just didn't want to You just didn't want to tackle him. But be smo had real speed. I mean, we had to play against Detroit. I think it was inel We had a little pitch play. Um I ended up cutting down the the the alley defender, and I actually as I'm rolling on the ground, you can't cut these guys in space no more. But as I'm rolling on the ground, I see him, you know, basically take a stride over top of me and go seventy six yards. He was two hundred thirty pounds. I mean, just the explosion off each single leg. Um be smore a little different games. I thought that might be a whole podcast on its own. Be smoke, just a little different. When you talk about the running back position, well that I'm actually glad you classic characterized it that way because I thought you met with Reggie that the plus one and what he was able to do in space that was like the generational type aspect of his game, whereas like bism was like the totality of the everything that he did. So that's kind of where I was going with you look at it that way. I mentioned the guys that were drafted. I got some other numbers for you. M Rob the workhorse, because you always think about the guy that's just the bell cow back. It actually hit its peak in the nineties and the early two thousands. So check out some of these numbers here and rob the number of running backs averaging at least eighteen carries per game. Check this out nine, there were twelve two thousand, fifteen, two thousand, five, fourteen, nineteen, three, three, and then in two right now four. So in two thousand four, I know that's a lot of numbers here, but you would stick with me in two thousand four, it's crazy right now four it's and you'll you'll know who those dudes are because it's obviously not a long list. But uh, two thousand four, sixteen running backs average twenty plus carries a game as a starter. I know there's a lot of numbers here, but just stick with me. Through fifteen weeks, we only have to just two guys, Josh Jacobs and Derrick Henry. In the history of the league, back has gone over three hundred carries in the season two hundred and thirty one times, but only ten of those occurred since Zeke, Elliott and Henry accounted for five of those guys. I mean, look at Tennessee's offense. I mean the style of offense. I mean, wouldn't you I would run of forty times if his body could handle it, you know what I mean? To be fair, his body can handle it. I think the problem is, m Rob, they don't have enough explosive please, and it's almost like unfair to Derrick Henry to ask that much of them. But a part of this has been the increase in the passing game. Once again, go back and check out our episode about the evolution of offenses, specifically the wide receiver spot. Since nineteen set, many teams are running ten percent less and throwing the ball at nearly a fifty seven percent clip in. Rushing touchdowns have also significantly decreased, which means passing touchdowns have increased. We're well over two times it's likely to see a throwing touchdown than a rushing touchdown. And Rob, how much of this is situational football? Running backs coming out of the backfield on maybe third down instead of like putting their head down, just kind of running with the football. Like, is it the running back that's just not necessarily that bell cow or is it the skill sets just different for some of these dudes. I think it's just the skill sets are just different. For a lot of these guys, I think, oh, this is this is heavy because I think it starts on the lower levels and it develops a psychology and the player and then the guys that are coaching these players have to respond to. Let me give you an example, like, um, you know, I helped some coaches in college. I hope some universities with managing some of the things that they managed right. And what will happen is you'll have a recruit that wants to come to your school, or you have a recruit that you promised a certain amount of playing time for and you know, you have a guy who maybe one of the tops in the country, and you have to get this kid playing time. So you figure out different unique situations or game planning opportunities to put this kid in the game. I was one of those kids at Penn State, meaning, um, yeah, I told Coach Paternal plenty of times I was going to transfer because I wanted I wanted to play at some point and I just didn't see many athletes that I thought we're better than me, and I'm just like, well, can we figure out a way to get me at the quarterback position? And so what happened was they started coming up with the MIC package. They started coming up with certain things, and I developed a certain skills set in certain packages and things like that. And what happened was when North Turner, when I was at the San Francisco for the nine is my rookie year, knowing that knowledge, it carried over and I became a third down back for this everything before the nine Is. And it wasn't that I was better at third down than Frank Gore all the time, because he he took a lot of the third downs and he was the bell cow type of a back, But at the end of the day, whenever he needed a break, I was the first guy that going to third down, maybe not some of the other guys that we had on the team that maybe didn't have that background or skill set being in third down, having the third down eyes, always looking for blitchers from the second level, understanding safeties that come from deep, being able to chip your way out all those things. That's a that's a special skill set that again, unless you are a certain type of back, Yeah, you're just not gonna always be able to have all of these skills or whatever, just because you're just not gonna be always required to do it. So I do think it's a little bit of something that starts on the lower levels that develops the psychology and the kid and coaches are just doing what they have to do to be more explosive and put points on the board and obviously saved their jobs. So I think that's why you're seeing so many different types of guys play and run football, and generational backs are just hard to find. Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, guys like that, sa Kwan Barkley with those types of skill sets. They're not they don't grow on trees. They're not just you know, just like those franchise types of quarterbacks. I tell all of our listeners and people that watch football, just watch se Kwon Barkley. The fact that he might get the ball seven times in a row and still have you still be able to run super fast in full speed and things like that. That's part of his superpower and what makes them a generational back. It's interesting I'm looking at some of these numbers here and as you're describing some of the the running backs who just get it done in a big way. I I talked to Austin Ekeler before the season started. And I actually don't have the numbers in front of me, but the point is I think he was leading. I think he had like the most rushing touchdowns in the NFL, and it was tied with Jonathan Taylor. And I had asked him with it, and don't quote me on the exact numbers here, but he had said, Hey, I don't do what Jonathan Taylor does. He goes, get me out in space, I'll figure it out. He goes, Jonathan Taylor is gonna run over you. And I think it speaks to what you're describing some of the skill sets for some of these guys. There's different ways that they can go and produce. Are you noticing because you do a tome with youth football, are you making sure that some of your younger players, or even the college guys, the high school kids that you're with that want to be running backs, are more aware of past catching ability and how paramount that's going to be as we get closer to a passing game. Absolutely. Absolutely. And actually, and I mentioned his name a little bit earlier, Tyreek Hill. To me, it's how Rich Hill is the personification of running back wide receiver coming together to form this nice little joke of energy and ball of electricity, you know what I'm saying, Like for real, he's really a wing back in the old wing t offense. That's what Tyreek Hill is and what I'm seeing on the youth level, in the high school level, a lot of while received was are starting to see that skill set and work on their speed there. They want to be like that Tyreek Hill. And what makes to me, what makes him scary is the ability to break tackles. What makes running backs scary is your ability to break tackles and then go eighty right. And so you look at the San Francisco for the Niners right now, right they have Christian McCaffrey. They just got him, and yes, um, what you'll see is him and Deebo Samuel in the game at the same time. You'll see Deebo Samuel in the slot push the McCaffrey in the backfield, and you'll see them switch up, sometimes as a shift. Sometimes they just break the huddle switch with Deebo Samuel in the backfield and Christian McCaffrey in the slot. And Kyle Shanahan's mind and in a play caller's mind, it really didn't matter which one of those guys get the ball, whether it's handing the football, are just throwing it to him. You just want to get a guy who can break tackles, who has great contact ballots and a physical fight to bring down. You just want to put the ball in his hands, whether it's in space where there's running the football at the running back position. And yes, I think we're we're morphing into that world where running backs, while receivers, all of those things are starting to kind of be the same guy, so to speak. I still think it's gonna always be that role for that guy to dot that's gonna, you know, get those dirty two or three yards because I don't think a guy like a Deebo Samuel or Tyreek Hill can line up in the eye on a consistent basis right and get a fourth and one, you know, third and four things like that unless a scheme to be that. So I do think it's still gonna be that for running back. But yeah, with the way that offenses are evolving and things are just again being more explosive and the balls around the quarterback, the quarterback is gonna have to be able to put the ball in these again, these wing back type of guys positions. And again when I say wing back, it's a running back that's has speed and can line up on the outside as why receiver. To me, they're starting to be synonymous. You know, as I'm listening to it reminds me of a conversation we had about defensive players and encourage people to check or listen to that podcast episode because it is kind of like these freakazoid guys who are super long, super athletic. I don't want to call it positionless football on the defensive side, but it almost is what you're describing. For I don't know how else to characterize it better than that, it almost feels like positionless football for some of these players. Is where you think it goes. Yes, it's it's coming because again, the defense is matching up to what they're being presented with from an offensive standpoint, And and I know it was earlier in the season, and I may have to check out some of the staff, but I do think there's gonna be a resurgence of the run game because as the defenders are starting to adjust from a body standpoint, right and get small, get a little smaller and leaner why not just run isso and leads and just run right at them. It's it's not pretty football, but it does get the job done. All right. The running back conversation will continue here and more specifically, and and I think Gen xers and older millennials you know what I'm talking about. You know when did he I guess he was puffy at that point said it's all about the Benjamin's. They're not getting the Benjamin's that they used to get. Will explain why that is. That's coming up next on the NFL Explained podcast. Welcome back to the NFL Explained Podcast. We're talking about the decline of the running backs, and you know it's the time of the show, right, you know what I'm talk about the d M S Man here we go. You know what's kind of crazy about it. I think people started on our team getting annoyed that I was doing it, and then they started to realize people have been d M and me and I keep throwing out questions and everyone's like, oh okay, now it's a thing. So if you have a question, don't know who to ask, you know who that person is. You can slide it to the d M S and Ron's planning, not mine. So if have some questions, I promise at some point where actually our our team, and our team needs so much love and they deserve a lot of love because Lord knows, and Rob, you and I couldn't do the show without him. But their work in diligently that we're compiling all the questions, We've got another mail bag episode. Some of the questions were so damn good that we're making full episodes out of them. So there's still a lot to come. Send us a message on social media that said, you know, it's my favorite subject. It makes me sounds really superficial, but I don't even care. It's money, man, It's it's it is man. It's what makes the world go round, no doubt, no doubt. I'm still a renter. So I'm trying to get as many of those Benjamin's as I can. You know what I'm saying, So cal real estate is no joke, man, If money talks, and that is the case, because m Rob said it is, and so do I. I think it's important stick a look at some of the dollar figures that running backs are getting. If you look at the average top five players at every position excluding sorry, I'm rob fullbacks, kickers, punters, and long snappers. Know, running back is the second lowest paid position. That is wild to me, Centers, centers, centers. So I actually think this is kind of messed up, right, Like centers are. Yeah, your facial expression says it all. They're like I get you know, quarterbacks getting all the money that they are. You know, we talked about wide receivers getting paid. Running Backs are absolutely abused on the football field, right The longevity of that position is so hard. But what do you make of that? And by the way, so center at thirteen point two million, running back fourteen point two, tight en fourteen point nine, guards sixteen point five, and linebacker seventeen million, that's your bottom five. I mean, okay, so guard, I'm looking at the offensive line product which you just say to guard makes almost three and a half million more on average than the center. At least the centers I've come in contact with, yams and the centers that I've had experience with in my life, they're smarter than the quarterback. More often times they're smarter than the quarterback. Have we seen probably the number one offensive line in football right now? The Philadelphia Eagles and who's there? Who are they led by? They led by their center and Jason Kelsey, he pulls, he does everything. That number was shocking to me, even though I should have known it, but it was shocking to me. But yeah, um, here's the deal. Backs, I get it. They pay us, and then it seems like either our production goes down or your generational guy like Adrian Peter central on Marshawn let you continues to get bigger contracts. I get it, because, Yams, I'm telling you, most running backs have been playing running back their entire life. And hear me out here, man, so my entire life, I've had eleven guys on the other side of the line of scrimmage hitting me or trying to hit me for free. Are free? Okay? And I finally got an opportunity to break the bag. Okay, I finally get an opportunity to break the back. I think it's human nature for most people to just exhale, and I think that's what you see with most backs. I think they run for the money, right, and then when they look in their bank account and they see the zeros, it's hard to continue to take that punishment over sustained period of time. Again, unless you're a generational guy, unless you're doing it for other reasons, it's hard to do that. And I think, just subconsciously, I think that's why play usually slacks off after the running back gets paid. Okay, So it doesn't make sense then that GM's are paying them a little bit less because there's the business side of it, right, I guess. So it's I guess the business side of it. I guess. For me, just knowing and seeing a lot of the backs on our league, I just think we got a lot of talented guys. Man, I just think we got a lot of diverse and talented guys in our league. Just that sometimes scheme doesn't always show off their talents all all the way. But you are. You are a scheme guy though generally, and like that sometimes can be a recipe for success. We've seen over the decades certain running backs have a lot of success in one type of offense, go to another team and they don't have nearly the same type of productions. I think that's a Quarterbacks do that too, and they still get paid them money even when we I mean Russell's they were gonna be in Denver next year and again scheme change may not have been the best thing for him. Do you think you said just like I see it? That's all. But but I'm just saying for other positions, scheme don't Oh you know what I'm saying to scheme that that scheme narrative been no always used to not pay them. I don't know why it's always used with the running back position. Okay, that makes me think about quarterbacks. And by the way, we did an episode on this check that out. Have I ever promoted more of our other previous shows in a show but for I'm getting a lot of like head non nos, but their loving it, so uh, check out some of those episodes and if they'll explain podcast. Um. I started thinking about the quarterback position, specifically quarterbacks who are mobile enough, right, so Lamar Jackson certainly comes to mind. I think the Ravens are a good sort of test case here. The Ravens. We think about them is run first, clearly. I'm looking at some of the numbers here. Top ten rushing teams all time in the Super Bowl era Number one, twenty nineteen Baltimore Ravens, who rushed for three thousand, two hundred nineties six yards They're also number four on the list, this Ravens team, with seven teams being from the nineteen seventies and one being from the nineteen eighties. Like this is wild to me. Those Ravens squads. By the way that I just made reference to the nineteen ones, how about fourteen and two and eleven and five. Those were their records here the ground and pound. Yeah, there's still something to be said there. And I'll take it even a step further. M Rob. You might think it's one dimensional, it's only the run game. How about this though that didn't even match up. The total yardage only accounted for fifty of their total offense, So we are still talking about a little bit of a balanced team here. Can't talk about those Ravens without mentioning, Yes, of course Lamar and his running ability over twelve hundred yards on that twenty nineteen team. Over the course of fifteen years, the amount of design runs for quarterbacks has increased more than one and a half times, from one thousand, four hundred eighty two in two thousand six to over two hundred one yardage gained by quarterbacks on the ground. That numbers increased twofold just about fifty three hundred yards to over ten thousand yards in that same exact span. So can the quarterback in your mind, m rob And I know I'm looking at like a Bill's helmet in the background, So you know, orm this one dude that I'm thinking about. Yeah, uh in Josh Allen. But can those running quarterbacks can they make up for some of the deficiencies that you're seeing in terms of running backs who aren't producing at a super high level. Absolutely, those quarterbacks also make up for bad coaching. But I'll say this. You know how I classified movement quarterbacks, right. You have runners with passing ability. Those are Lamar Jackson's. Those are the Jalen Hurts. That was who Michael Robinson was and I'm still waiting for one of those guys to win a Super Bowl again. Runners with passing ability, now, you have passers with movement ability. Those are the Russell Wilson's. Those the Steve Young's of the world like that. You see what I'm saying, Patrick Mahomes guys like that, even even Josh Allen, Because I don't think Josh Allen's a runner. I think he has a He's big, strong, and he has the ability to run you over. Is that like Cam Newton? Yes, like Cam new To me, Cam Newton was a runner and he ran like that, right, he ran powerful. He ran by lowering his shoulder, and lowering that shoulder got his a c joint or got his shoulder to a point where he's not throwing the football where you want it. I think that's why you're gonna see um. You know, I think Jayalen Hurts got nicked up. We could saw a goal or whatever whatever. And they're being cautious about the Philadelphia Eagles because he's a runner, and when you have a runner at the quarterback position, it can affect the throwing. I'm good with my quarterback being a runner. I still have to be proven, right, I still gotta see one of those guys when win a Super Bowl. But I'm good with my quarterback being a runner as long as he's a smart runner, as long as we can limit the designated call quarterback runs where he actually has to take a bunch of punishment. If we can call a quarterback run, I'm calling a sweep where he can kind of get out of bounds and protect him from himself. So yeah, the running quarterback is here to stay. The running offense for a quarterback is here to stay. But we gotta see these guys win the Super Bowl before I think we can call it super legitimate and look, it might happen. It might be a Philadelphia Eagles team at Jalen Hurtson together on the short list of teams that could go and do it all right, Welcome back to the NFL Explained podcasts. Mike Yam and Rob with you and Rob, you told me earlier you're a big scheme guy. I started thinking about players who are versatile enough. Deebo Samuel certainly comes to my Tyreek Hill. You mentioned jet sweeps. Sometimes we're seeing these wide outs and how they're used. I think the best example is Debo because there's almost been a concerted effort to have him at times in that backfield and lineup as a running back. I think with Tyreek gets more of emotion thing. Sometimes you'll even see a tight end be in those situations as well. Just from a number standpoint, here in the two thousand season, we actually saw wide outs carry the ball two hundred and fifteen times, and that numbers actually increased to four hundred and thirty three one. Like I I saw that number and I did a double take at it. The yardage for wide receivers as runners have gone from basically fourteen hundreds to almost twenty seven hundred. That's almost two times the same amount there, So why dots huge weapons? We did that episode about a ution to the wide receiver spot. I mentioned position list football and Rob ten years from now, twenty years from now, is that what we're gonna be talking about in the NFL, where you're not really a running back per se, You're not necessarily a wide receiver. You're just a dude who's an athlete and you can get out into space and make things happen. You're an offensive weapon. You're an offensive weapon. It doesn't matter. You can carry the football, you can catch you out of backfield. You just guys. I remember when I first started getting really into the National Football League, my rookie year and learning defenses and learning some of these blitz packages, and I remember our offensive coordinator, I think it was no Alterno at the time, he said, I know this guy's a got a fifty number, but his body type, at some point he's gonna run to the safety. Forget about their numbers. They're all excess when he blitzes he's four weeks forget that he is wearing a cornerbacks number. They don't matter. They're all excess. And I think what's happening is or what's coming to the National Football League defenses are now I'm gonna start to look at offenses and say the exact same thing. Okay, you got the five guys blocking, and you got the quarterback. Everybody else or exits, it doesn't matter. And now you're starting to talk about stem and things like that. You see what I'm saying and defend concepts not necessarily individual players. Yes, Yams, I think it's coming. And wait until we get to the platoon system at quarterback. Josh Allen even said that on his one on one sitting down with me a few weeks ago, talking about the platoon system at quarterback. I do think that is coming based off of the amount of money those guys are making. You think you're telling me Josh Allen's gonna step off the field. Hell, he said, he's not man not someone else might do that. He was talking about the future. He was like, yeah, maybe the future after I'm you know, from here, maybe they're bringing two guys to kind of do what I do. Can you imagine MCDA saying, hey, Josh, like you said, be like, hell though, I'm not coming off, that's just stocking out. That has me thinking here about winning the Super Bowl, winning the Chef. I look and maybe I'm saving the best for the last year, and maybe we shouldn't have stacked the podcast this wik But I saw some of these numbers and I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. This is wild. I just want to put some of this stuff in context for some of our listeners here, because I think about traditional football, right, it's it's run the ball and play defense, and that's what's gonna win. I don't know if you can make that case anymore that that's how things are moving. We took a look at the last ten Super Bowl champions. Leading Russia on those teams finished on average eighteen one eight eighteenth in the league in yards. Some of the notables on the list chiefs leading Russia in twenty nineteen Dammian Williams, dude finish thirty nine in yards. But see, okay, you're saying I get I get what you're saying, But isn't that kind of that's kind of leading right, because I would like to see his yards per rush and his impact in the playoffs that year, because he was awesome in the playoffs that year. But when you talk about a whole Kansas City office, they don't use running best like that exactly. I don't disagree with you, but it speaks to how you can still win at times or even get to the super Bowl and not half your We're breaking tradition is really what I'm what I'm trying to say here, you don't need the dude who's like, you know, the guy who's going to run for two thousand yards. I mean, it's nice, but like those days, you know what I'm saying, Like, you know, huge totals and now you get to a thousand, you're feeling really good about yourself and you're pumping up your chest here. But I'll give you some other examples here Patriots leading rusher, and I know that this sort of speaks to what you're describing that super Bowl team, Jonas Gray. What finished top running back on a Super Bowl team in the last ten years was mars Shawn Lynch, who finished sixth in yards. So once again and Yams and I can tell you there were three maybe four games. Well, he said, I don't want to play the fourth court. I already got a hunt of yards. I want Robert Turbin to get some money. That's what he was saying. I don't even want it. I don't even want to do it. Like he was in the vein of like Chuck Munsey man, like this is just a just a tough dude, right, you know what I'm saying, chared about everybody, all those things. Man, it's just I don't know what's a joy to be around beast mode. And you know, running backs have a certain attitude to all of them, all of them yams. Now that's changing because again you're seeing the position characteristics change. But most times they're walking around slow, but they will run fast and run you over. Know what I'm saying. That's usually how they are. Okay, I love this because I don't think you'll get this on any other podcast. I think position groups have different reputations of how they are. I've never thought about the reputation for a running back in general, so can you. And look, this is a complete generalization here, but yeah, throw out the castle wide net for me, yams, yams general real least speaking again, I've been we talked all podcasts. It's running backs. Eleven guys. When I get the football at six five or six behind the line of scrimmage, eleven guys are coming after me. Right, So when I'm not working, when I'm not getting hit by all of these guys, and I'm not getting scarred up and scratched. Every shower where you take after a game is like a bunch of them paper cuts all over your body, you know what I'm saying. Like when you when you just chilling in everyday life. Yeah, man, you walk as slow, You're taking your time. You observe me, You're just like, oh, it feels good not to have bodies around me. I mean honestly, and I think it's a subconscious thing. But all the guys I've been around seeing to kind of be that way hanging around Shady McCoy like he's a jitterbug as far as running the football on the field, and he talked, you know what I'm saying, got a lot of energy there, But what are you walking around hanging out? Man? Yeah, it's a little bit slow moving a getting broad strokes were speaking. Obviously, there's some there's some you know, individualistic things about it, but a broad stroke speaking, there's some general characteristics about every position group. It makes sense to me. Um, look, before we wrap things up here, I got two things for you. One a number for you. Last three Super Bowl winners, the Rams, the Bucks, the Chiefs have finished tied for and twenty three, respectively in rushing yards. So that's one. That's the fact which leads me to number two. Here, are we going to continue to talk about the running back spot being a dying breed? I'll let you put a bow on this conversation, Yes, just because I don't know if the English language has the words that we should be using. I don't want to say dying and stuff like that of running back position. But it is changing. It's evolving, Um, football, the game of football is evolving. Yeahs Earlier this year I did the World Cup final for flag football. That's the thing. You loved him saying, yeah, it was awesome, Like it was awesome, right, you know what I mean? Totally different skill sets gotta come into play. We're talking about getting that in the Olympics. So football is evolving and our tackle football version of it, and our tackle football is evolving as well as offenses continue to evolve. You're good, Yes, you're going to see the running back position change. Now. To me, there's gonna always be a room for a generational back. And if you've got a generational back who has the long speed to go a d he has hands, short arms. That's a characteristic of some running backs. Short arms because they can hold a football sip when they fall and they put that arm out to brace themselves. It's not a lot of space for the fumble to happen. That's a little technical for you guys, but it's the truth. If you get one of those guys, you gotta take them. You gotta put them in the dot behind the quarterback, and you gotta hand him to football and say come tackle him. That's just the way it is. I only feel bad for those guys because I know when they get into the National Football League, unless you have the right mentality of you know, up top up in your head. Because I talked to the Asian Peterson's in the Marshawn Lynches, your play will slip it. Just will you just hope that the right generational back of whoever that may be you the next time we see him. I think Sae Kwon Barkley is our next one. I think Tom will continue to tell that. But whoever, I think it will always be space for the generational back. Okay, if you're gonna tell our listeners, because what I've noticed from some of the d ms that we're getting is a lot of new fans, a lot of fans who maybe are are just getting exposed to the NFL. If you had to give advice and said, hey, go on YouTube and watch this one running back, the best dude I've ever seen run? Who's that guy? That's a good one, because they all got a little little different, you know what I'm saying, and all a little different, and um, I look at um Jim Brown. I think Jim Brown could have played in any error. I know when you watch the highlights of Jim Brown, you're looking like he won't playing against anybody. Oh my goodness. But I believe he's one of those guys that obviously were we lift weights and our monorn medicine whatever. If he was coming along that track, he would have been the same type of guy. I would tell young people watch Adrian Peterson, watch his desire once he gets the football. I don't I just don't know if there's been a guy wired like that, I need you to watch Beast Mode. Obviously, Um, he's still a relevant guy. Earl Campbell. Um. Just the physicality of the way that he ran the football. I don't necessarily recommend you trying to run the football like Earl Campbell, but what I'm saying is just the physicality and the confidence running towards the line of scrimmage. And my all time favorite because that's just the error I grew up in Barry Sanders. People didn't I didn't look at Barry Sanders as being this powerful guy. He was a jitterbug. He you know, you got all these highlight runs and making people miss. But the guy'sties are like thirty inch stisman. Like if you ever stood next to Barry, which I've had the opportunity to do, he's not a small Guy's short, but he's not a small guy. He ran with power at times. You watch those facts and I think you'll get a really, really, really good understanding of what a generational back when an all time running back looks like oh and for eyes from for vision, look a Frank Gore. That's not a selfish plug because I blocked for him. But I think he's had the best eyes of any running back in all the football. I'm surprised he didn't bring up that. Ma Well. I think that's part of it. And I don't want to take anything from Ny because the player as long as he played and to do what he had to do. Obviously it takes a lot. But I played with Larry Allen, Yams and Larry Allen. He drove around in a bentley. He spent there in sunflowers. He's on the floor, rolled around the bent league, he spent the dip and then when I asked him for a ride home one time, he laughed and said be careful. When I stepped in there, it crunched. Oh my god, Okay, that's Larry Allen. I watched we went up to Seattle in two thousand and six. I watched Frank Gold run for almost two hundred yards and all we did was run one play power Larry's pulling. Larry wipes out in an entire side of a defense. And this was like second to the last year of him retiring. That was Larry Allen. They had a couple other guys on that Dallas Cowboy offense of Lionie Newton and some other guy. So it's hard for me knowing that that guy was right there in his prime. He used to tell me stories about, you know, some things in the street he used to do, and he was what I mean, Larry all time great. So to know that that those types of guys were blocking for image is just hard for me to give him all the love. But I don't want to take anything away from He's the all time leading rush and all of NFL history. You can't do that without being a hard worker. You can't do that without having some skill. No, I'm with you. That's why I was just kind of curious when you you didn't say his name, but it makes sense and why you decided to go down that path. I always say this at the end of these Maybe I don't always say it, but I do mean that man. Always great to work with you dude, Always have a blast. Always appreciate you guys checking us out on this podcast. You can fire off the DFS at Mike underscore ya at Real Mike, Rob. Don't send him to d M. You want respond, you could just follow Rob. I promise I will get back to you as and and we'll continue to compile a lot of these questions that you have always appreciate you guys listening once again the decline of the running back. You be the judge. Is it happening or is it not? Hopefully we explained it