NFL Explained is a production of the NFL in partnership with iHeartRadio. I don't even know how to respond to all this new environment, new studio, no desk. I'm like, should I have worn the g I don't even know what's going on here, but I do know it is a brand new edition of NFL Explained. We got the NFL Draft, which is around the corner here. I know you are excited. Oh yeah, by the way, screwbol Chap, Michael Robinson, Mike cam with you. April thirtieth, two thousand and six. That date should resonate. It should It didn't until I read a little bit of what was going on today about the show, and then I did not know that long ago. That's when I got drafted. It was April thirtieth, and you know what, I had a draft party, two yams. Did I did? I thought? You know? So look, let me tell you a little story. Another network with four letters. I can't say that that other network, but it's another four letter network, not the NFL network, but another network said hey, Mike, we want to send some cameras to where you're gonna be at for the draft. And in two thousand and six. The first three rounds was on the first night, and then the second day was the next four rounds, and so I said, you know, I don't think I want a camera man because what if I do not go where I think? And all these teams are telling me I'm gonna go, And everybody said, hey, Mike, you're gonna be probably second third round. That's like your ceiling your floors, like you know, bottom of the fourth or fifth, and I'm like, okay, all right. Third round came around. I had the Pittsburgh Steelers callman. They said, hey, Mike, we got two picks in this round. You're gonna be one of them. If the board falls the way we think it's gonna fall, you're gonna be one of them. I never forget their first pick came up. I think they drafted at the time. It was a kick return specialist. I think his name was Willie Read out of Florida State. We had just played Florida State in Orange Bowl. That's why I resonated so much with me. Okay, so I knew exactly who the guy was. The second third round pick, I think it was a quarterback maybe or something like that, out of Bowling Green I could be wrong about some of the players, but those two guys stood out of my mind, and I'm thinking I didn't go in the third where they told me I would go, and they picked two positions that I know how to play. I can return kicks and I can play quarterback. So I was a little upset on draft night, but it was all good. I ended up getting drafted. It ended up it worked. Yeah, it worked out. So you just mentioned you got a phone call, and I start to think about all the images when we watched the draft of guys getting the call. I always just kind of assumed once you got the call, then you knew. But you're telling me you got a call, and it didn't play out that way. No, it didn't got the call, and mean, yams, you got any stand Bro. I had just bought a two thousand and seven because it was in two thousand and six, so you know the next year is the one that comes out. So I just bought a two thousand and seven Chevy Tahoe. Bro. That's when they just changed the body styles a little bit more aerial dynamic. And yeah, I'm telling you, Bro, I drove it right off the car like I brought off the showroom floor. They opened the big doors from me and I drove it off. I bought that truck the day before the first three rounds and I'm thinking, okay, I'm going I'm gonna have some money to pay for this, and bro, you when that third round ended and my name wasn't called, you can ask the car and I'm like, yo, I can't pay by my car. I had to get my car back. I was so hurt. I didn't really understand the business of the National Football League in that time. But uh, I ended up going the next day, so it's all good. So it is all good, typically speaking though that experience, because we always, even on NFL Network on draft Day, we're playing a lot of the videos of the guys actually getting the calls because the camera crews are obviously, uh you know, in the team draft rooms and then we have cameras around those players. Every time we get one of those one of those calls, it's a guy, Hey, how do you feel about being you know what York Giant or New York Jet or whatever the case may be. I hadn't I didn't realize that those calls actually happened. When it Oh yeah, they call you hey, say hey, um, you know we think about you. You know what I mean, We just want to get you ready, And it just so happened. From a television standpoint, what we see is what we're allowed to see. I think sometimes we don't always see those calls that happened, because the next morning it was the fourth round and I woke up to having nine missed calls from a four weight number and I had, and I'm sitting there like, what the hell is this? Like somebody spamming me or something. Finally I pick up one of those calls. It's Scott McCluin and the general manager for the sever Sico forty nine ers, and I ain't gonnat of. He said, yeah, I'm Scott and mclun I said, for real, stop playing hung up on him because I was upset. I was supposed to go on third round out, so they told me, you know what I'm saying. And then he called back and he said, don't hang up, and he was laughing because he knew I was upset because they were in the Senior Bowl and I was in the Senior Bowl, so they I kind of knew what type of person I was. He said, Man, I'm telling you, bro, we got the second pick today. We don't have to have the board fall to us. We know exactly who we want. We're gonna pick you up. I said, Okay, I don't believe it until I actually see whoever's calling the picks out today. Save my name goodbye. And then they called my name and I was yeah, all the emotions came then, Yeah, because your dreams come true. You had told me this a while ago. We were doing our Super Bowl episode and you said, I think four tickets the players were allotted. So you said, if you helped me move into Penn State, you were getting absolutely right. The draft party, by the way, I would assume it was larger than just it was larger, but it was just it was still more of the closer people in my network, like we had. I had some of the other guys at Penn State who was getting drafted. Tombahali and those guys were around. But at the end of the day, no, man, it's about the people that helped get you there. You just want to share in a moment with them, all right. So on this episode, we're going to go through the NFL Draft. We're getting you ready and just giving you some context on just sort of the history and maybe some trends that could even impact what we're going to see at the end of April. But let's start with the quarterbacks here. It really shouldn't come to anyone's surprise that that has been the most taken position in the Common Draft era, or since nineteen sixty seven. Twenty six times signal caller has gone number one overall. Defensive ends next at thirteen taken in that top spot six of the last eight number ones have been quarterbacks. But the hit rate over that spam it has been underwhelming, to say the least. In fact, you got to go back to twenty eleven the top pick, Cam Newton that year. If you want to find a quarterback that went one overall that was also named to an All Pro team prior to that, you got to go to Peyton Manning, who was drafted in nineteen ninety eight. Another crazy staff for you, m Rob the New York Jets, who have been much discussed in recent weeks. You're not alone Mark Sanchez. They drafted him in two thousand nine. Geno Smith, congrats to him. They took him in twenty thirteen. Of course, Gino just getting a new deal with the Seahawks. Sam Darnold in twenty eighteen. After three seasons, all of them had the worst passer rating in the league. It actually doesn't get much better. They drafted Zach Wilson in twenty twenty one after two seasons, he's got the worst passer rating in the league. So you can make a comment about drafting and the way it sounds like we're picking on the Jets. I don't mean to pick on the Jets. There's a lot of teams that you can look at their draft history. It's not a perfect song spitting facts though. It's not like you're making this up or you know, putting it in a certain these are just straight facts. They draft a quarterback seems like every three or four years. Okay, so last year in the draft we saw Rock Party mister Irrelevant, which means the last pick in the draft. Star obviously led that team into the postseason. It got me thinking, here, does it make sense, no matter where you're picking, because most teams have multiple picks in the NFL draft, to take a quarterback every single year? I would say, yeah, why not? Right? They become tangible assets for you later on you know, but just and I think it underscores the fact that there's just not a lot of these human beings walking the planet that can win a game exclusively off of the skill sets that they possess, whether it's their arm, their running ability, whatever the case may be. And the quarterback position is more about than what you just do it on the football field, right, It's about what's going on in the locker room. It's about how you carry that message from that locker room and permeated throughout the community. You're literally the face of the franchise. So it's a lot that goes along with that. But yeah, I would draft a quarterback no matter when. Now you can make an argument about drafting them in the first round, I think, but at the end of the day, if it gets late in the draft and you've met the needs of your team, if a quarterback is the next guy on your board, why not take them. Eventually it might turn into picks for you. So think about it. Let's spend ahead here to this year's NFL draft, because we know the quarterback spot, which by the way, we did a whole episode on quarterbacks and the evaluation and who the goat is highly encourage you guys to go and check that episode out. But this year it's a little tough. You got four quarterbacks that potentially could go in the first round. By all accounts, that looks like that's going to be the case. And maybe there's a fifth in Hendon Hooker out of Tennessee. But the point is, in no particular order. CJ. Stroud, Brcy come to mind, Anthony Richardson and Will Levis. All of those guys, we saw them at the combine. Bryce was the only one who didn't throw. They all do things a little bit differently. So if you're a general manager, take me through that evaluation process. You need a quarterback. You're in the first round. Maybe you got a quarterback already. Maybe you know, you look at Anthony Richardson and you speculate maybe he could be a developmental project. How do you evaluate where you're going to take those guys and what they potentially could be at the NFL level. Because the other guys, by the way that the Jets took that I made reference to, we thought they were pretty good quarterbacks, right like the Jets took those guys in the first round. We thought they were going to have success there's no perfect science to explaining what a guy is going to do on Sundays. No, it's no perfect science. That's why I think the decision makers of every organization you have to have the knowledge itself. What I mean by that is the knowledge of your organization to understand your coaching staff. It's about developing these kids. It's about making sure you got the guy to communicate with him. For instance, I remember talking to coach Hardball from the Ravens a few years ago at an owner's meeting and we were talking about Lamar, and you know, it was very excited about Lamar. I think this was the year before Lamar was about to win the MVP or whatever, and he was very excited. And I said, well, coach, who do you having the building to actually talk to Lamar that Lamar respects from a player's standpoint or whatever the case may be. And he kind of just looked at me and I say, Yeah, that's something that has to be addressed because Yams, imagine being at quarterback, right, you drop back, Okay, you drop back the pass you're looking and you're reading the defense or whatever, and when you drop back, you know you're the vastest most dynamic player on the field. You know how hard it is to actually throw the ball after that, you know, you know it takes a level of responsibility to do that. So you have to speak to that guy differently. He's not going to throw that out on with timing. He's gonna throw curls and comebacks a little bit better than he throws outbreaking routes and things like that, just because of the nature of the anticipation, the nature of him being like, why would I risk the ball when I can actually run it. I remember Joe Paterno telling me, dude, it's fourth down. What the hell are we doing? Mike. I know we called a pass play, but you better get the going, you know what I'm saying. And you got to have the right people on your coaching staff and in the building to talk to that kid and get the most out of that kid. And then you got to look at the individual situations too. If you're a team that you know you have a solid running game, you have pieces, you have a defense that can get a young quarterback out of trouble, maybe C. J. Stroud is the way to go, because he does look a little bit more ready to play right now. And can operate an offense right now, maybe if you're looking at a guy like an Anthony richard said, yeah, I think that would be a project right now. The guy needs more game reps. That was one of the differences that was told to me, Mike. We look at Matt Liner, we look at Vince Young, who were in my draft class as well. Those guys have at least twenty five hundred more game reps than you. Those are reps that, obviously, on the experience, gives you, okay, a lot to pack here because what you just described for Lamar Jackson makes me think Anthony Richardson's measurables and athletic display at the Combine would give me pause and say, you know what, like I can work with that, because I can't teach a dude to run that fast, to be that size and athletic. But then he had opportunities when he was at Florida in the SEC, like they didn't win a ton of games. And on top of that his production. I mean, you're talking about a fifty three percent passer out there. I don't know how to evaluate a guy based off of the freak athleticism because you just mentioned this with Lamar. And by the way, Lamar, I think it was a better passer than Anthony Richardson was coming out, So not exactly lamp, but I was a starter for a while in college. He had more game reps. He actually was in the game doing these things a lot longer than Anthony Richardson. And to your point, I think I know where you're going with it, Yams. It's the same on the reverse end. Like we look at Bryce Young, is he so good because he's playing with cadillacs ands as opposed because the talent is so up there. You have to look at that with the top guys as well. I think in Anthony Rigison's case, anybody could look at Florida and tell that they lack a little bit, they lack a little bit of skill playing in sec Yeah, no, I'm with you. And look once again, quarterback clearly the premium position. But when you look at which positions have actually seen an increase in top ten selections over the last twenty two years. The number of quarterbacks m ROB taken in the top ten over a five year period from two thousand to two thousand and four, that was seven. We've already seen six taken in the top ten in a three year period from twenty twenty to twenty twenty two. Now, edge defenders offensive tackles they've also seen a jump, but cornerback has already seen six players taken in the top ten over a three year span twenty twenty through twenty twenty two, which actually ties them with quarterbacks and offensive tackles for the most taken over that span. Running backs call the way I know this is going to make you come, make you cringe. None in the last three years, the last and being se Quon Barkley in twenty eighteen. Yeah, are we going to see a running back? Like? Is that going to change moving forward? Or is it sort of Look, we even said it's the running back. We did an episode on that, is it? You know? Is it a position that is sort of thankless? Like part of me says the answer my ps here. Yeah, And I hate to say it, but it's just one of those things like when you look at young football players. Uh, you know, when I was young, you know, seven eight years old playing literal league football, and I would have dreams, you know, laying around in the yard playing or whatever and daydreaming about playing football. Most of the time you have day dreams about running the ball, yeah, you know what I mean. Or if you're one of those quarterbacks I've used to have dreams and visions about throwing the ball in the tight windows and you get the music in your head and all of that. You rarely see guys day dreaming about blocking or you know, I mean, I know it sounds funny, but that's that's how it is. And I think that's why you can find so many runners. I think the wide receiver position, with all the seven on seven that's going on at the younger age groups, I think the wide receiver position is in danger of that becoming like the running back position. Where you can find a guy that runs the four or three, you can find a guy that can catch you can I mean, they all have some of these traits, and that's why I'm always advocate for running back. I think the running backs should have their own CBA. Man. I'm telling you they need to no contracts longer than three years. They can always go back at you know, kind of go back at it. And it's because when we get the football seven yards deep behind the line of scrimmage, all eleven defenders are locked in on us and trying to get the football. There is trying to make the tackle, Yams. There is no other position like that. When a quarterback drops back at the most times, he may have seven guys trying to rush at him. Receiver catches the ball down field that you're limited to the guys that are hitting you. Every time be Smoll got the football all eleven guys, tension was up. It was assault in a line of scrimmage, and to me, just the nature of the position is a little different. Yeah, it's almost like describing, well, when I was a kid, you play killed the man with the ball, Like that's kind of exactly what you're describing when you're talking about throwing up and run. It's real simple, throw it up and run without football. Yeah yeah, all right, Welcome back to the NFL Explained podcasts. Mike Am and Rob with you. You just mentioned the wide receiver spot. We did an episode of NFL Explaining on the evolution of offenses and we talked about the utilization of wide receivers and how effective they are in offenses and more of a concerted effort to get those guys the football. To me, that explains why we're seeing a run of corners here like we have. Is that a clear answer? That is clear? Again, everything has to be has to it revolves around the quarterback, right, So you're going to see quarterbacks obviously go a lot in the first round. You're gonna see pass rushers go because that pass rushers affect the quarterback and obviously quarterbacks there on the football to wilde receivers. So defensive backs, more defensive backs on the field. I think now the number one personnel in the National Football League is Nickel. It's eleven personnel, three wide receivers, are tight end, and a running back. So yeah, you're gonna need more defensive backs. Okay, so I brought up sa Quon Barkley before. You were just talking to me about running backs. The Giants coming off of a brutal season in twenty seventeen, there were so many needs that they had, including quarterback. By the way, when they decided to go Barkley number two overall, Look, maybe he's the best player on the board at that point, I would venture probably yes, as they were assessing it, but there were so many needs that they had. We just talked about the running back spot and maybe you know, thinking that you can get some of those other guys. Sort of the same thing happened with the Falcons. Remember in twenty twenty one they drafted Kyle Pitts the tight end fourth. Overall, there were other needs that were there, So I guess the big picture question is how often or should teams think about positional need and finding guys that can help them immediately or do you just take best player on the board Yams. There's no one answer fer this, man. I think every team is in different situations. But when you talk to general managers, at least in my experience talking to league general managers, you can never have enough elite players. If you just take the best guy, oftentimes you have more success in the long haul of things than in the short haul of things. Sometimes when you just take positional needs in the draft, sometimes the business of the National Football League to follow when you can make those needs look irrelevant or may have changed just based off of coaching staff changes and things like that. So to me, you never go wrong taking elite talents. I do understand the running back child conversation, but to me, sae Quan was a generational talent. Andrew and Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, these guys are generational talents. And if you can find one of those guys, I think you take them. Do we evaluate? Because I'm listening to what you're saying, and I'm about how I even phrase the question to you and the examples that I gave, there's a part of me that says, best player available. It always feels like we're talking about a skill position guy, right, Like you could make an argument that you can't go wrong getting big boys up front. Right. But see, now you're in my world now, yam see, because that's what I love. If I'm a building the team, I'm building man from the trenches. Because again, I look at it like this. There's two positional groups in the National Football League. And I've had a lot of smart people in the National Football League explain this to me. There's two positional groups. You cannot win without offensive line, yep. In secondary, the offensive line is your engine. They can help out the defense if you got an offensive line that can roll grade and you can just hand the football off and play four minute offense whenever you want to help your defense out. And then the secondary if you cannot give up the big play. If once a ball carrier breaks through your front seven and you have sure tacklers. That's why I love the mcquarity twins. Those dudes were sure tacklers. You can say what you want to say about him in coverage or whatever, but both of those guys were sure tacklers, and that's really what you want in the secondary. And to me, the secondaries like the battery of your car. You can't really operate a vehicle without the engine in the battery. I thought you were going to say, d Line, to be honest with you, Yeah, well you can manufacture pressure. So not to get too much into the weeds on this, but I do think about a recent addition. And obviously we were just coming off the heels of free agent frenzy, where we're just seeing all this player movement. The San Francisco forty nine ers led a couple of their guys in the secondary walking free agency, and yet they bring him Hardgrave out of Philadelphia. They already got Nick Bosa. But based off of what you're describing to me, but they were getting pressure anyway, right they were. I'm almost surprised if secondary is so important the Niners. And look, there's a hundred different ways that's gonna catch. I don't even know if that's a good phrase to use. But the point is, you know where I'm going going with that. But like from a Niner's perspective, maybe they just don't subscribe to that theory about secondary being the most the second most important thing, or maybe they know they have the coaching staff to develop whoever the draft in the draft, you see what I'm saying. So again, it always goes back to your individual team's situation, like I know in Seattle, because you know, obviously I want a Super Bowl with them. Pete was a defensive back guy. That's why you look over his tenure. He's able to find a Terric Woolin. He's able to find a Richard Sherman or Brandon Brown or Earl Thomas. If you have the coach and staff to develop what you want, then yeah, you can let important pieces go. You talk about that San Franco for the nine of thing. I think the San Francico fort and now has got some news. Maybe they're gonna end up making here soon. Okay, all right, I ain't breaking no news. I'm just saying I just look, they've been quiet. They got some assets that they can move around. I just I got a feeling they're gonna make a play for some money. So we'll double teas here the teams that Rob just gave you and this one because we've talked about the trends and the players being drafted. But when we come back, we'll get into how a general manager and an NFL team balances built through the draft or is it better to go through free agency. That's coming up next on the NFL Explained Podcast. All right, back here on the NFL Explained Podcast, m Rob and Mike am with you. All right, there is a balance because we talked through some of the trends that we've seen in the draft. Sometimes you know, you might lean one way if you're a GM when it comes to a player's actual traits and what they've done or some of the production by traits. I'm talking about things like arm length, speed, jumping, the things that are measured at the combine. A good example this year CJ. Strad Ohio State ridiculously productive in college. Anthony Richardson. Though you see the arm talent, you saw the speed. The dude ran a forty and even run in a straight line. And we're all sitting there going, dude, this guy is really good. How you just don't give him a reverse and just say, you know what I'm saying, people to get out of his way and just figure it out. Jordan Addison, he certainly comes to my big college production. When he was at Pit Bullet and Coffee Word Winner, I know people were down on his production at SC. He did miss a couple of games. He was flirting with a thousand yards. I think he missed three games. But the point is Zay Flowers, Quentin Johnston's traits at the wide receiver spot. There's different ways you can go, you know. Addison I think was more on the production side. Some of those other guys more on the trade side. So if you're a general manager, how do you balance leaning towards production on Saturdays versus Oh my god, like this dude just just testing off the charts. Okay, I'm gonna use your term. You say traits, I say genetics. It's all the same to me. I lean on the traits side because see, I feel like, if you're a great coach, you can get through to anyone. You can coach anyone. And when you and I'm gonna use Anthony Richardson because you use his name in the setup six five, two hundred and forty seven pounds. You run a sub four. You cannot coach there now, you just can't. Some of the production things that you see from other prospects or whatever. Sometimes that can be scan sometimes that can be people you're playing against. If you're evaluating, you just want to see the physical traits that you're excited about show up on tape. You want to see that big strong arm of Anthony Richardson. I want to see him throw at sixty yards. I want to see if he actually did it in a game. Yeah, I want to see that that sub four four speed show up. I want to see the size and power show up, because if it doesn't show up in the game, then that means, you know, possibly this player doesn't possess the ability to translate those traits into organized game situation. So I run from that particular player. But no, you do not go wrong getting a big, strong, fast player. I remember having a conversation with Trent Baki, the general manager of the Jacksonville Jaguars, just about that. He's like, yeah, bro, you big, strong and fast. I mean that's just what that's what this game is all about. It is still a physical game, and it's still a trait driven game. You were asked that. I don't know if you told the story on air or off air, but I remember you telling me that you were asked, Hey, would you do you have to be a quarterback if we drafted you during your draft process, Anthony Richardson, I do get concerned just about the completion percentage. And I know people say, well, Josh Allen was like fifty, which is just a tick better, and look what he is at the NFL level. You know, Josh also won some games, Anthony, I don't didn't produce against really good defenses in the SEC. Is it fair to ask, is Anthony Richardson because of those traits? Team might go, you know what, maybe he's not a quarterback. That's a loaded question because I believe the game has changed enough. I believe the position has changed enough that it may be almost disrespectful to X that kid to change positions right now. It wasn't disrespectful to Michael Robinson in two thousand and six because the style hadn't been legitimized yet. We just saw Jalen Hurts, who was an MVP candidate last year, play one of the best Super Bowls ever. He lost, but the game in which he played was off the chain. And I mean I saw Jalen Hurts thrive in the SEC, thrive in the big twelve, win football games, and make throws candidly on Sundays and in the postseason that not many dudes in the NFL can actually make. Maybe Richardson gets there, but that's where I hedge, man, That's why it's a problem for me. Again, Jalen Hurts His way to the SEC and through the SEC was a little bit different than Anthony Richardson's. I believe Jalen Hurts had a great amount of coaching. They get him to a certain place, and then when you look at, you know, his success in the National Football League. I always go back to what Nick Sirianni said earlier this year. He said last year, it got to a point where we said, you know what, Jalen may not be seeing the field the way we want to while we calling these plays. Just to be calling these plays, Let's go back to this Oklahoma running game and build our passing game around his running game ability. And that's when his special ability started to show up again. I'm saying you can have the genetic traits, but it's on the coach to be able to figure out a way to utilize those traits. In skime, it goes back to and I know anyone who's a diehard football fan and even your casual fans, and I know I get the DMS people in the UK that are trying to learn about football or Australia and they're listening to this podcast. You're gonna hear this phrase thrown out a whole lot. But I think what m Rob's describing it's actually perfect. And I hate using it because it feels lazy but fit. Yeah, I mean, it really truly does come down to that. You know, many players and Robi you've probably played with that were drafted maybe didn't have the careers that they should have had because they just were taken by the team that couldn't figure it out. I mean it's a little heartbreaking for dudes. Absolutely. I just go back to my time in San Francisco. I left there in twenty ten. They were in the Super Bowl in twenty twelve. Twenty four months later. Yeah, it was only one real change. They drafted Kaepernick and let him play, but everybody else was pretty much the same right new coach now and sometimes again usas breed different results. Okay, so we were talking about the evolution of you know, the quarterback spot once again another episode that you can go and check out. But you had said, for Richardson, disrespectful. Now because of the era of the game and it being legitimized, I think we're also seeing an inflection point in the league draft, your free agency. How do you build a team to get there? And maybe some teams saw what the Rams did and said, you know what, maybe buying it one year and we know where it's now fallen to and it's a little bit of a fire sale for some of these teams or for the Rams specifically. But I do think that's worth thrown out there, and for those who aren't aware. Obviously, the Rams got their Super Bowl title in twenty twenty one. Matthew Stafford, Jalen Ramsey, Von miller O b J Andrew Whitworth bought it. They got it done. Now, they did have some guys that they drafted, Cooper Coup and Aaron Donald, but clearly the names that I just referenced skews towards the free agency side of things. This year's Super Bowl participants, key pieces traded grabbed in free agency, the corners for the Eagles, some of the whiteouts for Casey, which I think is a little unfair because of the bargain that they got on a lot of those guys as opposed to the big stars. I mean the dudes that I mentioned for the Rams, like those guys got paid big deals. But both teams actually drafted their quarterbacks, and the Eagles and the chief but don't forget Travis Kelsey, Chris Jones, the offensive line pieces. It goes back to what we were saying, building in the trenches. Philly's offensive line in so many ways on both sides, on offensive defensive line is so important. But the old line, all five of those guys were drafted. So does one path make more sense? Because both have won, We've seen it. And by the way, the Chiefs also relied heavily undrafted guys in their secondary to put them over the top. That's what I was getting ready to say. I mean for you to be able. I'm a firm believer in relying on the draft. I do. I think oftentimes in free agency you're gonna overpay for guys just because of the nature of win free agency starts. You know what I mean is before the draft, it incentivized as teams that have cap space to go out there and get the free agent. And oftentimes that free agent has been coached by somebody different. They have different ways of how they see success, and so to me, you have to be wearied with free agents. They're not always the most coachable, right because they're coming over now, they have different eyes looking at them. They feel like you courted them. They get paid now. So I just think sometimes you have to be wearied that way. But you have to have a staff that can develop. I mean, you really do. I mean you just talking about the Philadelphi Eagles that offensive line. I mean there were years where I'm like, Okay, you know, you know they heard Jason Peters. I don't know what's gonna happen with him. Then they get this kid that used to play rugby, and I remember telling my brother he's a Philadelphia Eagles fan when they got Jordan my Lotta, and I'm like, I think this dude's gonna make the team. I guarantee you one day he's gonna be their starting left hand. Now, because at the end of the day, he's gonna be offered the more money than he's ever seen before, and in the terms of the business of the National Football League, that's gonna feel, you know, cheap. And they developed him from in house. I always look at guys that you draft and developed from in house. It's almost like I don't know the team that drafted you. They kind of have an end right, Like you know, they drafted you, they gave you a chance. You're all set up. Oftentimes, you set up family, kids, got school and all of it's hard to leave those situations. So yeah, I'm a friend believer in building through the draft. Okay, so I mentioned the Eagles, who, by the way, also dipped into free agency. I think there was a nice little blend of drafted guys and free agent guys on last year's Super Bowl team. But I want to go back to twenty twenty. Once you pay the quarterback though, Yams, you know, give me a problem because you get the feeling now they're letting people go, what are you supposed to get I mean, not getting ready to play the quarterback? Yeah, and I think it's the same thing with the Chargers, right justin Herbert and by the way, all the same class right to ah, well, we'll go Burrow Herbert to A and Jordan Love in that class on the first round. Jalen Hurts was a second round pick. But the point is all these dudes now in line for mega deals and that is going to affect your cap situation in such a big way. Circling back though, on the wide receiver spot, I want to ask you this question because Eagles back in twenty twenty they got Jellen Riger over Justin Jefferson when obviously the Vikings went and drafted. I don't want to pick on anyone, and I feel like I did that obviously with that comment, and I'm doing it. I did it earlier in the podcast talking about some of the Jets quarterbacks. Explain to me, though, how the evaluation process is so different, right, Like you can have a guy plays the same spot on your draft board and yet what it all plays out, the production is in this case historically dramatically different between those guys. And this may not be a direct correlation or a great example, but I mean it's the reason why we have different wives, bro, you know, different folks. The subjective, man, it is what it is, bro. You know, I love your analogies and I love working off of them. I'm going to let it go on that one, man, But it for real. It is and like the usually use the ice criminalogy, like some guys like chocolate, some guys like vanilla. You know, I'm a squirrel guy in the count like a little bit of everything. But but no, I get it, you know, I actually I do like Rocky girl. But the point is like different flavors for different different flavors, and it's the same thing. We're building a team, man. You know, there's a lot of different paths to get to the mountaintop, and you have to understand what the direction your organization is trying to go in to even be able to have an opinion on whether a certain pick is the right thing for a team or not. So again, it's different structure, different folks. Man, Now it beauties and now the behold. It also goes back to the start of this show on maybe why you should be drafting the quarterback every every year. I mean again, if you got your dude, it comes up and then you look at some of these guys, man, they quarterbacks. Man, I know I used speak quarterback. I'm not going to talk too much bad about them. But I will say this, man, they be getting hurt and they get all that money and they get hurt and then you got to bring in another quarterback who you know, whatever, whatever, and the rest of the teams like, look, bro, but I didn't get hurt, and I'm effected about it. You know what, Just pay these quarterbacks. Get one every single time that you get a chance. Favorite flavor of ice cream for m Rob is I'm not a huge ice cream eater. I'm not huge. Don't let me go in. I'm talking to the person delicious dessert. You're not going down. Let me go into all of it. But I know I'm not a huge ice cream eater, so no, I can't. I don't really have a flavor. Yeah, for those who don't know m Rob's diet, there's you know, frequent fasting and yes, he's a healthy character. I try. Yeah, you know, the point is, I don't know what the point is on the dessert. But oh, different strokes are different folks in the whole. Again, let's circle back. We'll bring it back to the NFL Draft, which, by the way, is coming up NFL Network, NFL Plus Thursday, April twenty seventh from Kansas City. Cannot wait for it. We'll find out who mister irrelevant is going to be. We'll finally get closer to finding out how some of this drama at the top of the draft is going to shake out. Kind of a cool class. I'm hoping we get five quarterbacks taken in the first round. I want to help her to get to talk about you. Man. Yeah, you give us a stuff to talk about for the next few month. Man, let's go. And otherwise I'm relying on Brian Baldinger to give me his take on all these big fellaws up front and the offensive lineman and the human eclipse that some of these guys actually are. And I'm always going to be with you, and I'm bringing ice cream next time we do one of these shows. Appreciate you guys listening.

NFL Explained is a production of the NFL in partnership with iHeartRadio. I don't even know how to respond to all this new environment, new studio, no desk. I'm like, should I have worn the g I don't even know what's going on here, but I do know it is a brand new edition of NFL Explained. We got the NFL Draft, which is around the corner here. I know you are excited. Oh yeah, by the way, screwbol Chap, Michael Robinson, Mike cam with you. April thirtieth, two thousand and six. That date should resonate. It should It didn't until I read a little bit of what was going on today about the show, and then I did not know that long ago. That's when I got drafted. It was April thirtieth, and you know what, I had a draft party, two yams. Did I did? I thought? You know? So look, let me tell you a little story. Another network with four letters. I can't say that that other network, but it's another four letter network, not the NFL network, but another network said hey, Mike, we want to send some cameras to where you're gonna be at for the draft. And in two thousand and six. The first three rounds was on the first night, and then the second day was the next four rounds, and so I said, you know, I don't think I want a camera man because what if I do not go where I think? And all these teams are telling me I'm gonna go, And everybody said, hey, Mike, you're gonna be probably second third round. That's like your ceiling your floors, like you know, bottom of the fourth or fifth, and I'm like, okay, all right. Third round came around. I had the Pittsburgh Steelers callman. They said, hey, Mike, we got two picks in this round. You're gonna be one of them. If the board falls the way we think it's gonna fall, you're gonna be one of them. I never forget their first pick came up. I think they drafted at the time. It was a kick return specialist. I think his name was Willie Read out of Florida State. We had just played Florida State in Orange Bowl. That's why I resonated so much with me. Okay, so I knew exactly who the guy was. The second third round pick, I think it was a quarterback maybe or something like that, out of Bowling Green I could be wrong about some of the players, but those two guys stood out of my mind, and I'm thinking I didn't go in the third where they told me I would go, and they picked two positions that I know how to play. I can return kicks and I can play quarterback. So I was a little upset on draft night, but it was all good. I ended up getting drafted. It ended up it worked. Yeah, it worked out. So you just mentioned you got a phone call, and I start to think about all the images when we watched the draft of guys getting the call. I always just kind of assumed once you got the call, then you knew. But you're telling me you got a call, and it didn't play out that way. No, it didn't got the call, and mean, yams, you got any stand Bro. I had just bought a two thousand and seven because it was in two thousand and six, so you know the next year is the one that comes out. So I just bought a two thousand and seven Chevy Tahoe. Bro. That's when they just changed the body styles a little bit more aerial dynamic. And yeah, I'm telling you, Bro, I drove it right off the car like I brought off the showroom floor. They opened the big doors from me and I drove it off. I bought that truck the day before the first three rounds and I'm thinking, okay, I'm going I'm gonna have some money to pay for this, and bro, you when that third round ended and my name wasn't called, you can ask the car and I'm like, yo, I can't pay by my car. I had to get my car back. I was so hurt. I didn't really understand the business of the National Football League in that time. But uh, I ended up going the next day, so it's all good. So it is all good, typically speaking though that experience, because we always, even on NFL Network on draft Day, we're playing a lot of the videos of the guys actually getting the calls because the camera crews are obviously, uh you know, in the team draft rooms and then we have cameras around those players. Every time we get one of those one of those calls, it's a guy, Hey, how do you feel about being you know what York Giant or New York Jet or whatever the case may be. I hadn't I didn't realize that those calls actually happened. When it Oh yeah, they call you hey, say hey, um, you know we think about you. You know what I mean, We just want to get you ready, And it just so happened. From a television standpoint, what we see is what we're allowed to see. I think sometimes we don't always see those calls that happened, because the next morning it was the fourth round and I woke up to having nine missed calls from a four weight number and I had, and I'm sitting there like, what the hell is this? Like somebody spamming me or something. Finally I pick up one of those calls. It's Scott McCluin and the general manager for the sever Sico forty nine ers, and I ain't gonnat of. He said, yeah, I'm Scott and mclun I said, for real, stop playing hung up on him because I was upset. I was supposed to go on third round out, so they told me, you know what I'm saying. And then he called back and he said, don't hang up, and he was laughing because he knew I was upset because they were in the Senior Bowl and I was in the Senior Bowl, so they I kind of knew what type of person I was. He said, Man, I'm telling you, bro, we got the second pick today. We don't have to have the board fall to us. We know exactly who we want. We're gonna pick you up. I said, Okay, I don't believe it until I actually see whoever's calling the picks out today. Save my name goodbye. And then they called my name and I was yeah, all the emotions came then, Yeah, because your dreams come true. You had told me this a while ago. We were doing our Super Bowl episode and you said, I think four tickets the players were allotted. So you said, if you helped me move into Penn State, you were getting absolutely right. The draft party, by the way, I would assume it was larger than just it was larger, but it was just it was still more of the closer people in my network, like we had. I had some of the other guys at Penn State who was getting drafted. Tombahali and those guys were around. But at the end of the day, no, man, it's about the people that helped get you there. You just want to share in a moment with them, all right. So on this episode, we're going to go through the NFL Draft. We're getting you ready and just giving you some context on just sort of the history and maybe some trends that could even impact what we're going to see at the end of April. But let's start with the quarterbacks here. It really shouldn't come to anyone's surprise that that has been the most taken position in the Common Draft era, or since nineteen sixty seven. Twenty six times signal caller has gone number one overall. Defensive ends next at thirteen taken in that top spot six of the last eight number ones have been quarterbacks. But the hit rate over that spam it has been underwhelming, to say the least. In fact, you got to go back to twenty eleven the top pick, Cam Newton that year. If you want to find a quarterback that went one overall that was also named to an All Pro team prior to that, you got to go to Peyton Manning, who was drafted in nineteen ninety eight. Another crazy staff for you, m Rob the New York Jets, who have been much discussed in recent weeks. You're not alone Mark Sanchez. They drafted him in two thousand nine. Geno Smith, congrats to him. They took him in twenty thirteen. Of course, Gino just getting a new deal with the Seahawks. Sam Darnold in twenty eighteen. After three seasons, all of them had the worst passer rating in the league. It actually doesn't get much better. They drafted Zach Wilson in twenty twenty one after two seasons, he's got the worst passer rating in the league. So you can make a comment about drafting and the way it sounds like we're picking on the Jets. I don't mean to pick on the Jets. There's a lot of teams that you can look at their draft history. It's not a perfect song spitting facts though. It's not like you're making this up or you know, putting it in a certain these are just straight facts. They draft a quarterback seems like every three or four years. Okay, so last year in the draft we saw Rock Party mister Irrelevant, which means the last pick in the draft. Star obviously led that team into the postseason. It got me thinking, here, does it make sense, no matter where you're picking, because most teams have multiple picks in the NFL draft, to take a quarterback every single year? I would say, yeah, why not? Right? They become tangible assets for you later on you know, but just and I think it underscores the fact that there's just not a lot of these human beings walking the planet that can win a game exclusively off of the skill sets that they possess, whether it's their arm, their running ability, whatever the case may be. And the quarterback position is more about than what you just do it on the football field, right, It's about what's going on in the locker room. It's about how you carry that message from that locker room and permeated throughout the community. You're literally the face of the franchise. So it's a lot that goes along with that. But yeah, I would draft a quarterback no matter when. Now you can make an argument about drafting them in the first round, I think, but at the end of the day, if it gets late in the draft and you've met the needs of your team, if a quarterback is the next guy on your board, why not take them. Eventually it might turn into picks for you. So think about it. Let's spend ahead here to this year's NFL draft, because we know the quarterback spot, which by the way, we did a whole episode on quarterbacks and the evaluation and who the goat is highly encourage you guys to go and check that episode out. But this year it's a little tough. You got four quarterbacks that potentially could go in the first round. By all accounts, that looks like that's going to be the case. And maybe there's a fifth in Hendon Hooker out of Tennessee. But the point is, in no particular order. CJ. Stroud, Brcy come to mind, Anthony Richardson and Will Levis. All of those guys, we saw them at the combine. Bryce was the only one who didn't throw. They all do things a little bit differently. So if you're a general manager, take me through that evaluation process. You need a quarterback. You're in the first round. Maybe you got a quarterback already. Maybe you know, you look at Anthony Richardson and you speculate maybe he could be a developmental project. How do you evaluate where you're going to take those guys and what they potentially could be at the NFL level. Because the other guys, by the way that the Jets took that I made reference to, we thought they were pretty good quarterbacks, right like the Jets took those guys in the first round. We thought they were going to have success there's no perfect science to explaining what a guy is going to do on Sundays. No, it's no perfect science. That's why I think the decision makers of every organization you have to have the knowledge itself. What I mean by that is the knowledge of your organization to understand your coaching staff. It's about developing these kids. It's about making sure you got the guy to communicate with him. For instance, I remember talking to coach Hardball from the Ravens a few years ago at an owner's meeting and we were talking about Lamar, and you know, it was very excited about Lamar. I think this was the year before Lamar was about to win the MVP or whatever, and he was very excited. And I said, well, coach, who do you having the building to actually talk to Lamar that Lamar respects from a player's standpoint or whatever the case may be. And he kind of just looked at me and I say, Yeah, that's something that has to be addressed because Yams, imagine being at quarterback, right, you drop back, Okay, you drop back the pass you're looking and you're reading the defense or whatever, and when you drop back, you know you're the vastest most dynamic player on the field. You know how hard it is to actually throw the ball after that, you know, you know it takes a level of responsibility to do that. So you have to speak to that guy differently. He's not going to throw that out on with timing. He's gonna throw curls and comebacks a little bit better than he throws outbreaking routes and things like that, just because of the nature of the anticipation, the nature of him being like, why would I risk the ball when I can actually run it. I remember Joe Paterno telling me, dude, it's fourth down. What the hell are we doing? Mike. I know we called a pass play, but you better get the going, you know what I'm saying. And you got to have the right people on your coaching staff and in the building to talk to that kid and get the most out of that kid. And then you got to look at the individual situations too. If you're a team that you know you have a solid running game, you have pieces, you have a defense that can get a young quarterback out of trouble, maybe C. J. Stroud is the way to go, because he does look a little bit more ready to play right now. And can operate an offense right now, maybe if you're looking at a guy like an Anthony richard said, yeah, I think that would be a project right now. The guy needs more game reps. That was one of the differences that was told to me, Mike. We look at Matt Liner, we look at Vince Young, who were in my draft class as well. Those guys have at least twenty five hundred more game reps than you. Those are reps that, obviously, on the experience, gives you, okay, a lot to pack here because what you just described for Lamar Jackson makes me think Anthony Richardson's measurables and athletic display at the Combine would give me pause and say, you know what, like I can work with that, because I can't teach a dude to run that fast, to be that size and athletic. But then he had opportunities when he was at Florida in the SEC, like they didn't win a ton of games. And on top of that his production. I mean, you're talking about a fifty three percent passer out there. I don't know how to evaluate a guy based off of the freak athleticism because you just mentioned this with Lamar. And by the way, Lamar, I think it was a better passer than Anthony Richardson was coming out, So not exactly lamp, but I was a starter for a while in college. He had more game reps. He actually was in the game doing these things a lot longer than Anthony Richardson. And to your point, I think I know where you're going with it, Yams. It's the same on the reverse end. Like we look at Bryce Young, is he so good because he's playing with cadillacs ands as opposed because the talent is so up there. You have to look at that with the top guys as well. I think in Anthony Rigison's case, anybody could look at Florida and tell that they lack a little bit, they lack a little bit of skill playing in sec Yeah, no, I'm with you. And look once again, quarterback clearly the premium position. But when you look at which positions have actually seen an increase in top ten selections over the last twenty two years. The number of quarterbacks m ROB taken in the top ten over a five year period from two thousand to two thousand and four, that was seven. We've already seen six taken in the top ten in a three year period from twenty twenty to twenty twenty two. Now, edge defenders offensive tackles they've also seen a jump, but cornerback has already seen six players taken in the top ten over a three year span twenty twenty through twenty twenty two, which actually ties them with quarterbacks and offensive tackles for the most taken over that span. Running backs call the way I know this is going to make you come, make you cringe. None in the last three years, the last and being se Quon Barkley in twenty eighteen. Yeah, are we going to see a running back? Like? Is that going to change moving forward? Or is it sort of Look, we even said it's the running back. We did an episode on that, is it? You know? Is it a position that is sort of thankless? Like part of me says the answer my ps here. Yeah, And I hate to say it, but it's just one of those things like when you look at young football players. Uh, you know, when I was young, you know, seven eight years old playing literal league football, and I would have dreams, you know, laying around in the yard playing or whatever and daydreaming about playing football. Most of the time you have day dreams about running the ball, yeah, you know what I mean. Or if you're one of those quarterbacks I've used to have dreams and visions about throwing the ball in the tight windows and you get the music in your head and all of that. You rarely see guys day dreaming about blocking or you know, I mean, I know it sounds funny, but that's that's how it is. And I think that's why you can find so many runners. I think the wide receiver position, with all the seven on seven that's going on at the younger age groups, I think the wide receiver position is in danger of that becoming like the running back position. Where you can find a guy that runs the four or three, you can find a guy that can catch you can I mean, they all have some of these traits, and that's why I'm always advocate for running back. I think the running backs should have their own CBA. Man. I'm telling you they need to no contracts longer than three years. They can always go back at you know, kind of go back at it. And it's because when we get the football seven yards deep behind the line of scrimmage, all eleven defenders are locked in on us and trying to get the football. There is trying to make the tackle, Yams. There is no other position like that. When a quarterback drops back at the most times, he may have seven guys trying to rush at him. Receiver catches the ball down field that you're limited to the guys that are hitting you. Every time be Smoll got the football all eleven guys, tension was up. It was assault in a line of scrimmage, and to me, just the nature of the position is a little different. Yeah, it's almost like describing, well, when I was a kid, you play killed the man with the ball, Like that's kind of exactly what you're describing when you're talking about throwing up and run. It's real simple, throw it up and run without football. Yeah yeah, all right, Welcome back to the NFL Explained podcasts. Mike Am and Rob with you. You just mentioned the wide receiver spot. We did an episode of NFL Explaining on the evolution of offenses and we talked about the utilization of wide receivers and how effective they are in offenses and more of a concerted effort to get those guys the football. To me, that explains why we're seeing a run of corners here like we have. Is that a clear answer? That is clear? Again, everything has to be has to it revolves around the quarterback, right, So you're going to see quarterbacks obviously go a lot in the first round. You're gonna see pass rushers go because that pass rushers affect the quarterback and obviously quarterbacks there on the football to wilde receivers. So defensive backs, more defensive backs on the field. I think now the number one personnel in the National Football League is Nickel. It's eleven personnel, three wide receivers, are tight end, and a running back. So yeah, you're gonna need more defensive backs. Okay, so I brought up sa Quon Barkley before. You were just talking to me about running backs. The Giants coming off of a brutal season in twenty seventeen, there were so many needs that they had, including quarterback. By the way, when they decided to go Barkley number two overall, Look, maybe he's the best player on the board at that point, I would venture probably yes, as they were assessing it, but there were so many needs that they had. We just talked about the running back spot and maybe you know, thinking that you can get some of those other guys. Sort of the same thing happened with the Falcons. Remember in twenty twenty one they drafted Kyle Pitts the tight end fourth. Overall, there were other needs that were there, So I guess the big picture question is how often or should teams think about positional need and finding guys that can help them immediately or do you just take best player on the board Yams. There's no one answer fer this, man. I think every team is in different situations. But when you talk to general managers, at least in my experience talking to league general managers, you can never have enough elite players. If you just take the best guy, oftentimes you have more success in the long haul of things than in the short haul of things. Sometimes when you just take positional needs in the draft, sometimes the business of the National Football League to follow when you can make those needs look irrelevant or may have changed just based off of coaching staff changes and things like that. So to me, you never go wrong taking elite talents. I do understand the running back child conversation, but to me, sae Quan was a generational talent. Andrew and Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, these guys are generational talents. And if you can find one of those guys, I think you take them. Do we evaluate? Because I'm listening to what you're saying, and I'm about how I even phrase the question to you and the examples that I gave, there's a part of me that says, best player available. It always feels like we're talking about a skill position guy, right, Like you could make an argument that you can't go wrong getting big boys up front. Right. But see, now you're in my world now, yam see, because that's what I love. If I'm a building the team, I'm building man from the trenches. Because again, I look at it like this. There's two positional groups in the National Football League. And I've had a lot of smart people in the National Football League explain this to me. There's two positional groups. You cannot win without offensive line, yep. In secondary, the offensive line is your engine. They can help out the defense if you got an offensive line that can roll grade and you can just hand the football off and play four minute offense whenever you want to help your defense out. And then the secondary if you cannot give up the big play. If once a ball carrier breaks through your front seven and you have sure tacklers. That's why I love the mcquarity twins. Those dudes were sure tacklers. You can say what you want to say about him in coverage or whatever, but both of those guys were sure tacklers, and that's really what you want in the secondary. And to me, the secondaries like the battery of your car. You can't really operate a vehicle without the engine in the battery. I thought you were going to say, d Line, to be honest with you, Yeah, well you can manufacture pressure. So not to get too much into the weeds on this, but I do think about a recent addition. And obviously we were just coming off the heels of free agent frenzy, where we're just seeing all this player movement. The San Francisco forty nine ers led a couple of their guys in the secondary walking free agency, and yet they bring him Hardgrave out of Philadelphia. They already got Nick Bosa. But based off of what you're describing to me, but they were getting pressure anyway, right they were. I'm almost surprised if secondary is so important the Niners. And look, there's a hundred different ways that's gonna catch. I don't even know if that's a good phrase to use. But the point is, you know where I'm going going with that. But like from a Niner's perspective, maybe they just don't subscribe to that theory about secondary being the most the second most important thing, or maybe they know they have the coaching staff to develop whoever the draft in the draft, you see what I'm saying. So again, it always goes back to your individual team's situation, like I know in Seattle, because you know, obviously I want a Super Bowl with them. Pete was a defensive back guy. That's why you look over his tenure. He's able to find a Terric Woolin. He's able to find a Richard Sherman or Brandon Brown or Earl Thomas. If you have the coach and staff to develop what you want, then yeah, you can let important pieces go. You talk about that San Franco for the nine of thing. I think the San Francico fort and now has got some news. Maybe they're gonna end up making here soon. Okay, all right, I ain't breaking no news. I'm just saying I just look, they've been quiet. They got some assets that they can move around. I just I got a feeling they're gonna make a play for some money. So we'll double teas here the teams that Rob just gave you and this one because we've talked about the trends and the players being drafted. But when we come back, we'll get into how a general manager and an NFL team balances built through the draft or is it better to go through free agency. That's coming up next on the NFL Explained Podcast. All right, back here on the NFL Explained Podcast, m Rob and Mike am with you. All right, there is a balance because we talked through some of the trends that we've seen in the draft. Sometimes you know, you might lean one way if you're a GM when it comes to a player's actual traits and what they've done or some of the production by traits. I'm talking about things like arm length, speed, jumping, the things that are measured at the combine. A good example this year CJ. Strad Ohio State ridiculously productive in college. Anthony Richardson. Though you see the arm talent, you saw the speed. The dude ran a forty and even run in a straight line. And we're all sitting there going, dude, this guy is really good. How you just don't give him a reverse and just say, you know what I'm saying, people to get out of his way and just figure it out. Jordan Addison, he certainly comes to my big college production. When he was at Pit Bullet and Coffee Word Winner, I know people were down on his production at SC. He did miss a couple of games. He was flirting with a thousand yards. I think he missed three games. But the point is Zay Flowers, Quentin Johnston's traits at the wide receiver spot. There's different ways you can go, you know. Addison I think was more on the production side. Some of those other guys more on the trade side. So if you're a general manager, how do you balance leaning towards production on Saturdays versus Oh my god, like this dude just just testing off the charts. Okay, I'm gonna use your term. You say traits, I say genetics. It's all the same to me. I lean on the traits side because see, I feel like, if you're a great coach, you can get through to anyone. You can coach anyone. And when you and I'm gonna use Anthony Richardson because you use his name in the setup six five, two hundred and forty seven pounds. You run a sub four. You cannot coach there now, you just can't. Some of the production things that you see from other prospects or whatever. Sometimes that can be scan sometimes that can be people you're playing against. If you're evaluating, you just want to see the physical traits that you're excited about show up on tape. You want to see that big strong arm of Anthony Richardson. I want to see him throw at sixty yards. I want to see if he actually did it in a game. Yeah, I want to see that that sub four four speed show up. I want to see the size and power show up, because if it doesn't show up in the game, then that means, you know, possibly this player doesn't possess the ability to translate those traits into organized game situation. So I run from that particular player. But no, you do not go wrong getting a big, strong, fast player. I remember having a conversation with Trent Baki, the general manager of the Jacksonville Jaguars, just about that. He's like, yeah, bro, you big, strong and fast. I mean that's just what that's what this game is all about. It is still a physical game, and it's still a trait driven game. You were asked that. I don't know if you told the story on air or off air, but I remember you telling me that you were asked, Hey, would you do you have to be a quarterback if we drafted you during your draft process, Anthony Richardson, I do get concerned just about the completion percentage. And I know people say, well, Josh Allen was like fifty, which is just a tick better, and look what he is at the NFL level. You know, Josh also won some games, Anthony, I don't didn't produce against really good defenses in the SEC. Is it fair to ask, is Anthony Richardson because of those traits? Team might go, you know what, maybe he's not a quarterback. That's a loaded question because I believe the game has changed enough. I believe the position has changed enough that it may be almost disrespectful to X that kid to change positions right now. It wasn't disrespectful to Michael Robinson in two thousand and six because the style hadn't been legitimized yet. We just saw Jalen Hurts, who was an MVP candidate last year, play one of the best Super Bowls ever. He lost, but the game in which he played was off the chain. And I mean I saw Jalen Hurts thrive in the SEC, thrive in the big twelve, win football games, and make throws candidly on Sundays and in the postseason that not many dudes in the NFL can actually make. Maybe Richardson gets there, but that's where I hedge, man, That's why it's a problem for me. Again, Jalen Hurts His way to the SEC and through the SEC was a little bit different than Anthony Richardson's. I believe Jalen Hurts had a great amount of coaching. They get him to a certain place, and then when you look at, you know, his success in the National Football League. I always go back to what Nick Sirianni said earlier this year. He said last year, it got to a point where we said, you know what, Jalen may not be seeing the field the way we want to while we calling these plays. Just to be calling these plays, Let's go back to this Oklahoma running game and build our passing game around his running game ability. And that's when his special ability started to show up again. I'm saying you can have the genetic traits, but it's on the coach to be able to figure out a way to utilize those traits. In skime, it goes back to and I know anyone who's a diehard football fan and even your casual fans, and I know I get the DMS people in the UK that are trying to learn about football or Australia and they're listening to this podcast. You're gonna hear this phrase thrown out a whole lot. But I think what m Rob's describing it's actually perfect. And I hate using it because it feels lazy but fit. Yeah, I mean, it really truly does come down to that. You know, many players and Robi you've probably played with that were drafted maybe didn't have the careers that they should have had because they just were taken by the team that couldn't figure it out. I mean it's a little heartbreaking for dudes. Absolutely. I just go back to my time in San Francisco. I left there in twenty ten. They were in the Super Bowl in twenty twelve. Twenty four months later. Yeah, it was only one real change. They drafted Kaepernick and let him play, but everybody else was pretty much the same right new coach now and sometimes again usas breed different results. Okay, so we were talking about the evolution of you know, the quarterback spot once again another episode that you can go and check out. But you had said, for Richardson, disrespectful. Now because of the era of the game and it being legitimized, I think we're also seeing an inflection point in the league draft, your free agency. How do you build a team to get there? And maybe some teams saw what the Rams did and said, you know what, maybe buying it one year and we know where it's now fallen to and it's a little bit of a fire sale for some of these teams or for the Rams specifically. But I do think that's worth thrown out there, and for those who aren't aware. Obviously, the Rams got their Super Bowl title in twenty twenty one. Matthew Stafford, Jalen Ramsey, Von miller O b J Andrew Whitworth bought it. They got it done. Now, they did have some guys that they drafted, Cooper Coup and Aaron Donald, but clearly the names that I just referenced skews towards the free agency side of things. This year's Super Bowl participants, key pieces traded grabbed in free agency, the corners for the Eagles, some of the whiteouts for Casey, which I think is a little unfair because of the bargain that they got on a lot of those guys as opposed to the big stars. I mean the dudes that I mentioned for the Rams, like those guys got paid big deals. But both teams actually drafted their quarterbacks, and the Eagles and the chief but don't forget Travis Kelsey, Chris Jones, the offensive line pieces. It goes back to what we were saying, building in the trenches. Philly's offensive line in so many ways on both sides, on offensive defensive line is so important. But the old line, all five of those guys were drafted. So does one path make more sense? Because both have won, We've seen it. And by the way, the Chiefs also relied heavily undrafted guys in their secondary to put them over the top. That's what I was getting ready to say. I mean for you to be able. I'm a firm believer in relying on the draft. I do. I think oftentimes in free agency you're gonna overpay for guys just because of the nature of win free agency starts. You know what I mean is before the draft, it incentivized as teams that have cap space to go out there and get the free agent. And oftentimes that free agent has been coached by somebody different. They have different ways of how they see success, and so to me, you have to be wearied with free agents. They're not always the most coachable, right because they're coming over now, they have different eyes looking at them. They feel like you courted them. They get paid now. So I just think sometimes you have to be wearied that way. But you have to have a staff that can develop. I mean, you really do. I mean you just talking about the Philadelphi Eagles that offensive line. I mean there were years where I'm like, Okay, you know, you know they heard Jason Peters. I don't know what's gonna happen with him. Then they get this kid that used to play rugby, and I remember telling my brother he's a Philadelphia Eagles fan when they got Jordan my Lotta, and I'm like, I think this dude's gonna make the team. I guarantee you one day he's gonna be their starting left hand. Now, because at the end of the day, he's gonna be offered the more money than he's ever seen before, and in the terms of the business of the National Football League, that's gonna feel, you know, cheap. And they developed him from in house. I always look at guys that you draft and developed from in house. It's almost like I don't know the team that drafted you. They kind of have an end right, Like you know, they drafted you, they gave you a chance. You're all set up. Oftentimes, you set up family, kids, got school and all of it's hard to leave those situations. So yeah, I'm a friend believer in building through the draft. Okay, so I mentioned the Eagles, who, by the way, also dipped into free agency. I think there was a nice little blend of drafted guys and free agent guys on last year's Super Bowl team. But I want to go back to twenty twenty. Once you pay the quarterback though, Yams, you know, give me a problem because you get the feeling now they're letting people go, what are you supposed to get I mean, not getting ready to play the quarterback? Yeah, and I think it's the same thing with the Chargers, right justin Herbert and by the way, all the same class right to ah, well, we'll go Burrow Herbert to A and Jordan Love in that class on the first round. Jalen Hurts was a second round pick. But the point is all these dudes now in line for mega deals and that is going to affect your cap situation in such a big way. Circling back though, on the wide receiver spot, I want to ask you this question because Eagles back in twenty twenty they got Jellen Riger over Justin Jefferson when obviously the Vikings went and drafted. I don't want to pick on anyone, and I feel like I did that obviously with that comment, and I'm doing it. I did it earlier in the podcast talking about some of the Jets quarterbacks. Explain to me, though, how the evaluation process is so different, right, Like you can have a guy plays the same spot on your draft board and yet what it all plays out, the production is in this case historically dramatically different between those guys. And this may not be a direct correlation or a great example, but I mean it's the reason why we have different wives, bro, you know, different folks. The subjective, man, it is what it is, bro. You know, I love your analogies and I love working off of them. I'm going to let it go on that one, man, But it for real. It is and like the usually use the ice criminalogy, like some guys like chocolate, some guys like vanilla. You know, I'm a squirrel guy in the count like a little bit of everything. But but no, I get it, you know, I actually I do like Rocky girl. But the point is like different flavors for different different flavors, and it's the same thing. We're building a team, man. You know, there's a lot of different paths to get to the mountaintop, and you have to understand what the direction your organization is trying to go in to even be able to have an opinion on whether a certain pick is the right thing for a team or not. So again, it's different structure, different folks. Man, Now it beauties and now the behold. It also goes back to the start of this show on maybe why you should be drafting the quarterback every every year. I mean again, if you got your dude, it comes up and then you look at some of these guys, man, they quarterbacks. Man, I know I used speak quarterback. I'm not going to talk too much bad about them. But I will say this, man, they be getting hurt and they get all that money and they get hurt and then you got to bring in another quarterback who you know, whatever, whatever, and the rest of the teams like, look, bro, but I didn't get hurt, and I'm effected about it. You know what, Just pay these quarterbacks. Get one every single time that you get a chance. Favorite flavor of ice cream for m Rob is I'm not a huge ice cream eater. I'm not huge. Don't let me go in. I'm talking to the person delicious dessert. You're not going down. Let me go into all of it. But I know I'm not a huge ice cream eater, so no, I can't. I don't really have a flavor. Yeah, for those who don't know m Rob's diet, there's you know, frequent fasting and yes, he's a healthy character. I try. Yeah, you know, the point is, I don't know what the point is on the dessert. But oh, different strokes are different folks in the whole. Again, let's circle back. We'll bring it back to the NFL Draft, which, by the way, is coming up NFL Network, NFL Plus Thursday, April twenty seventh from Kansas City. Cannot wait for it. We'll find out who mister irrelevant is going to be. We'll finally get closer to finding out how some of this drama at the top of the draft is going to shake out. Kind of a cool class. I'm hoping we get five quarterbacks taken in the first round. I want to help her to get to talk about you. Man. Yeah, you give us a stuff to talk about for the next few month. Man, let's go. And otherwise I'm relying on Brian Baldinger to give me his take on all these big fellaws up front and the offensive lineman and the human eclipse that some of these guys actually are. And I'm always going to be with you, and I'm bringing ice cream next time we do one of these shows. Appreciate you guys listening.