Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question. You know, I have been covering elections since Reagan and Carter back in nineteen eighty. Yes, everyone, I am that old. And to say that the way a campaign is run, the way a campaign is covered has changed dramatically, well that is a massive understatement. Social media and internet culture has been a driving force of Donald Trump's campaigns. Let us not forget his late night tweeting and now Kamala with her massive digital team overseeing her TikTok and Instagram account. So I really wanted to have a conversation to understand how the various platforms are informing voters and what impact they'll have. And there's no one better equipped to help guide this conversation than cultural commentator internet aficionado Evan ross Katz. Evan, Hey, thank you for being my date today.

Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question. You know, I have been covering elections since Reagan and Carter back in nineteen eighty. Yes, everyone, I am that old. And to say that the way a campaign is run, the way a campaign is covered has changed dramatically, well that is a massive understatement. Social media and internet culture has been a driving force of Donald Trump's campaigns. Let us not forget his late night tweeting and now Kamala with her massive digital team overseeing her TikTok and Instagram account. So I really wanted to have a conversation to understand how the various platforms are informing voters and what impact they'll have. And there's no one better equipped to help guide this conversation than cultural commentator internet aficionado Evan ross Katz. Evan, Hey, thank you for being my date today.

Oh my god, Katie, I will always be your plus one when called upon.

Oh my god, Katie, I will always be your plus one when called upon.

Well we should probably. I think some of my listeners might not be familiar with your work. Evan, How would you describe yourself and what you do? I would say I am a pop culture chronicler. So Katie, thanks largely to you. Actually, thanks entirely to you.

Well we should probably. I think some of my listeners might not be familiar with your work. Evan, How would you describe yourself and what you do? I would say I am a pop culture chronicler. So Katie, thanks largely to you. Actually, thanks entirely to you.

Mike White deemed me at the most valuable hype man in TV history, which is literally going to permanently go in my bio.

Mike White deemed me at the most valuable hype man in TV history, which is literally going to permanently go in my bio.

And of course Mike White is the writer, creator, director of White Lotus. And we should just talk very briefly before we bring Molly in about how you and I got to know each other. I mean, I kind of made you what you are today, Evan.

And of course Mike White is the writer, creator, director of White Lotus. And we should just talk very briefly before we bring Molly in about how you and I got to know each other. I mean, I kind of made you what you are today, Evan.

You did you did you? I credit you with all of my quote unquook success is all through the pipeline of Dittye girk Well to explain, please, So you had me on one of your We did a live show together. I think this was like what two years ago now, time.

You did you did you? I credit you with all of my quote unquook success is all through the pipeline of Dittye girk Well to explain, please, So you had me on one of your We did a live show together. I think this was like what two years ago now, time.

Really does fly right at City Winery.

Really does fly right at City Winery.

Yes, and you surprised me with a video from Mike Way, which is when he gave me, you know, deemed me the super fan that I am. And then from there I formed a friendship with Mike and now I'm involved in some facet of the White Loatus that I can't quite yet announce, but it has led to you know, exciting professional opportunities for me via Mike Waite.

Yes, and you surprised me with a video from Mike Way, which is when he gave me, you know, deemed me the super fan that I am. And then from there I formed a friendship with Mike and now I'm involved in some facet of the White Loatus that I can't quite yet announce, but it has led to you know, exciting professional opportunities for me via Mike Waite.

Wow. That is awesome, Hi, Molly. So we might as well, say, Hi'm Molly John Fast, who is our guest today. Molly is an MSNBC political analyst, host of the Fast Politics podcast. She's a Vanity Fair Special correspondent. She wears many hats, but today she's wearing the hat as our guest of next question. Molly John Fast and Evan ross Katz. I don't know. It just seems to fit together, doesn't it, Mollie.

Wow. That is awesome, Hi, Molly. So we might as well, say, Hi'm Molly John Fast, who is our guest today. Molly is an MSNBC political analyst, host of the Fast Politics podcast. She's a Vanity Fair Special correspondent. She wears many hats, but today she's wearing the hat as our guest of next question. Molly John Fast and Evan ross Katz. I don't know. It just seems to fit together, doesn't it, Mollie.

Three names for the when right?

Three names for the when right?

Well, let's talk about internet culture, because that's something that Evan is uniquely familiar with and I think is actually in some ways responsible for certain aspects of it. And you, Molly started a series on Instagram called Internet Stuff. When did you decide to start sharing tweets and memes you stumble upon?

Well, let's talk about internet culture, because that's something that Evan is uniquely familiar with and I think is actually in some ways responsible for certain aspects of it. And you, Molly started a series on Instagram called Internet Stuff. When did you decide to start sharing tweets and memes you stumble upon?

Oh, that's a really interesting question that no one has ever asked me about it. So so much of my life is this obsession, and it's a question I ask people all the time, and I'm curious to hear both of your answers of it too. I hope were this country three hundred plus million people really like three hundred and thirty million people. That is a humongous country, and only like ten million people read the newspaper right, two million, three million watch cable news four or five, six, maybe as many as seven watch you know, regular news. So where is everyone getting all of their news from? And I have become obsessed with this idea, like where are people getting their news from?

Oh, that's a really interesting question that no one has ever asked me about it. So so much of my life is this obsession, and it's a question I ask people all the time, and I'm curious to hear both of your answers of it too. I hope were this country three hundred plus million people really like three hundred and thirty million people. That is a humongous country, and only like ten million people read the newspaper right, two million, three million watch cable news four or five, six, maybe as many as seven watch you know, regular news. So where is everyone getting all of their news from? And I have become obsessed with this idea, like where are people getting their news from?

Where?

Where?

And as Twitter AX has become less and less useful because again there's no algorithm. And I'm curious what you both think of this, because there's no algorithmic transparency on any of these sides. So we don't know why some things do well and other things don't do well right right, And we don't know why, you know, the algorithm likes a certain picture and doesn't like another picture when it comes to Instagram, or why a tweet gets a gazillion retweets and not another tweet. So my question was always like why are you seeing what you're seeing? And as X got less and less good, I became more and more obsessed with the idea of just at least getting something out there right. And that's why I started posting that kind of stuff on Instagram, not because I particularly think, I mean, in my own personal life, I don't know that text on Instagram does anything good for me, But I became. So you know, one of the things that I think has really not served me this election cycle is that I truly believe everything I'm saying. So I truly believe that Donald Trump is an existential threat to American democracy and that if this election, you know, if Trump gets re elected, that we are all going to be living in a world that is hard to really fathom. And so I have been you know, I actually really really and again this is something you're sort of not supposed to be as a journalist, but I am on the opinion side. I genuinely am just anxious about getting content out there so that people can see. And you know, one of the great people who is often on Morning Joe and sometimes with me is the guy who does the charts this amazing Steve Ratner. Hello Steve Ratner, and Steve Ratner just gets the information out there. And part of me wonders, like, how much can we just try to get the information in front of people? And so that's why I started doing it, just out of sheer anxiety that perhaps another person will see a bit of news that will then galvanize them to vote.

And as Twitter AX has become less and less useful because again there's no algorithm. And I'm curious what you both think of this, because there's no algorithmic transparency on any of these sides. So we don't know why some things do well and other things don't do well right right, And we don't know why, you know, the algorithm likes a certain picture and doesn't like another picture when it comes to Instagram, or why a tweet gets a gazillion retweets and not another tweet. So my question was always like why are you seeing what you're seeing? And as X got less and less good, I became more and more obsessed with the idea of just at least getting something out there right. And that's why I started posting that kind of stuff on Instagram, not because I particularly think, I mean, in my own personal life, I don't know that text on Instagram does anything good for me, But I became. So you know, one of the things that I think has really not served me this election cycle is that I truly believe everything I'm saying. So I truly believe that Donald Trump is an existential threat to American democracy and that if this election, you know, if Trump gets re elected, that we are all going to be living in a world that is hard to really fathom. And so I have been you know, I actually really really and again this is something you're sort of not supposed to be as a journalist, but I am on the opinion side. I genuinely am just anxious about getting content out there so that people can see. And you know, one of the great people who is often on Morning Joe and sometimes with me is the guy who does the charts this amazing Steve Ratner. Hello Steve Ratner, and Steve Ratner just gets the information out there. And part of me wonders, like, how much can we just try to get the information in front of people? And so that's why I started doing it, just out of sheer anxiety that perhaps another person will see a bit of news that will then galvanize them to vote.

And Evan, how did you become a pop culture chronicler on social media and why were you drawn to that just as Molly is trying to disseminate information because she's in a constant state of anxiety. Yes, basically, but your kind of obsession with the internet culture predates this election. Tell us how you got sucked into it?

And Evan, how did you become a pop culture chronicler on social media and why were you drawn to that just as Molly is trying to disseminate information because she's in a constant state of anxiety. Yes, basically, but your kind of obsession with the internet culture predates this election. Tell us how you got sucked into it?

So similar to MOLLI like Twitter obviously is a very different platform now it doesn't even have that name anymore, but I still like to use Twitter to like extract information. I still find it to be a valuable place to learn about pop culture. I would also agree with Mollie where I don't really trust the likes on Twitter anymore. So even though Twitter will tell me this post has gone viral, I'm not always so sure about that, and I think it actually leads to about the dissemination of in fact misinformation. But to answer your question, I think for me in the beginning, it was very organic. There were things that I was drawn to that I didn't see people talking about enough, and I thought, you know, at that time, I had a very small platform. But for me, it was just about like wanting to recommend things to my friends, wanting to get eyeballs, and things that I found interesting. I also found that in this media landscape where there is so much out there. I mean, we're talking about politics today, but the Internet encompasses sports, there's fashion, there's entertainment, there's there's so many conversations happening on the Internet that I found the idea of distilling it to be something that was really valuable for people. And so I said earlier that I liked to think I'm a pop culture chronicler, but I'm alsto trying my best to distill the information that I think audiences should be hearing about, because even in the entertainment landscape, there's just so much content out there. So it's important for some people to have that, you know, sort of shrunk in as much as possible and shown to them in fits and starts.

So similar to MOLLI like Twitter obviously is a very different platform now it doesn't even have that name anymore, but I still like to use Twitter to like extract information. I still find it to be a valuable place to learn about pop culture. I would also agree with Mollie where I don't really trust the likes on Twitter anymore. So even though Twitter will tell me this post has gone viral, I'm not always so sure about that, and I think it actually leads to about the dissemination of in fact misinformation. But to answer your question, I think for me in the beginning, it was very organic. There were things that I was drawn to that I didn't see people talking about enough, and I thought, you know, at that time, I had a very small platform. But for me, it was just about like wanting to recommend things to my friends, wanting to get eyeballs, and things that I found interesting. I also found that in this media landscape where there is so much out there. I mean, we're talking about politics today, but the Internet encompasses sports, there's fashion, there's entertainment, there's there's so many conversations happening on the Internet that I found the idea of distilling it to be something that was really valuable for people. And so I said earlier that I liked to think I'm a pop culture chronicler, but I'm alsto trying my best to distill the information that I think audiences should be hearing about, because even in the entertainment landscape, there's just so much content out there. So it's important for some people to have that, you know, sort of shrunk in as much as possible and shown to them in fits and starts.

You weren't always focused on politics. In fact, you're kind of late to the political arena, Evan. But I would venture to say, Mollie and Evan, that this is the first truly social media election. Yes, we had Donald Trump tweeting wildly in twenty sixteen, and we've had obviously social media gaining significant round. More people get their news from digital devices than linear television now. But I feel like the Kamala Harris team really gets it. Would you agree with that? I mean, Kamala Harris has two hundred and fifty people working on her digital team, and they're doing a really phenomenal job. They have been on things almost immediately we talk about, you know, the brat moment this summer, we talked about, you know, the coconut tree stuff that actually was used to her advantage. Mollie, when you look at the whole political landscape, are you surprised at how much social media has really taken over this campaign cycle?

You weren't always focused on politics. In fact, you're kind of late to the political arena, Evan. But I would venture to say, Mollie and Evan, that this is the first truly social media election. Yes, we had Donald Trump tweeting wildly in twenty sixteen, and we've had obviously social media gaining significant round. More people get their news from digital devices than linear television now. But I feel like the Kamala Harris team really gets it. Would you agree with that? I mean, Kamala Harris has two hundred and fifty people working on her digital team, and they're doing a really phenomenal job. They have been on things almost immediately we talk about, you know, the brat moment this summer, we talked about, you know, the coconut tree stuff that actually was used to her advantage. Mollie, when you look at the whole political landscape, are you surprised at how much social media has really taken over this campaign cycle?

No, and you're right about the team. They have done amazing staff. I actually was there the other day doing little interviews with them in Wilmington, which is not close to anything. In case you're.

No, and you're right about the team. They have done amazing staff. I actually was there the other day doing little interviews with them in Wilmington, which is not close to anything. In case you're.

Wondering why are they I mean, I know that's where Joe Biden is. Is that just where they set up shops and they have moved to New York or Washington?

Wondering why are they I mean, I know that's where Joe Biden is. Is that just where they set up shops and they have moved to New York or Washington?

I think many of them have that same question. But they all stayed in Wilmington, Delaware. So if you want a sitcom.

I think many of them have that same question. But they all stayed in Wilmington, Delaware. So if you want a sitcom.

That must have been fascinating.

That must have been fascinating.

I mean I was like, you, guys, what is it like being some of them have been there for as much as two years, a year and change, like a year and two months. They said there's a lot of hiking trails. It was a pretty it was pretty bleak. So, yes, this is the first social media election. I would say a thing that I think about a lot is that tech companies, after or bankrupting local news, right after pretty much taking apart our media ecosystem, have given up on content moderation and you know, any kind of fact checking. So now we sort of gave we gave over the keys, and they have decided they're going to keyr Car. So in my mind, I'm a little salty about that. I'm going to be honest and a little bit mad at them. And I don't quite understand there's so much disinformation. I mean, Elon Musk has already said a million different ways, including jumping up and down in Pennsylvania, that he is actively working for Donald Trump.

I mean I was like, you, guys, what is it like being some of them have been there for as much as two years, a year and change, like a year and two months. They said there's a lot of hiking trails. It was a pretty it was pretty bleak. So, yes, this is the first social media election. I would say a thing that I think about a lot is that tech companies, after or bankrupting local news, right after pretty much taking apart our media ecosystem, have given up on content moderation and you know, any kind of fact checking. So now we sort of gave we gave over the keys, and they have decided they're going to keyr Car. So in my mind, I'm a little salty about that. I'm going to be honest and a little bit mad at them. And I don't quite understand there's so much disinformation. I mean, Elon Musk has already said a million different ways, including jumping up and down in Pennsylvania, that he is actively working for Donald Trump.

So there's that, and that he's willing to spend one hundred and forty million dollars to make sure that he's selected. I just read that.

So there's that, and that he's willing to spend one hundred and forty million dollars to make sure that he's selected. I just read that.

Yeah, I mean that for for Elon is a rounding error, but you know, certainly he wants and I mean I have to wonder how much of Elon's ambitions for Trump have to do with AI and the future of AI and not having any regulation there. I mean, one of the ways in which the American government on the left and the right has just completely fucked up beyond recognition is they decided not to ever do any regulation when it comes to technology or social media. So you have CBS is not allowed to be owned by you know, there are all sorts of rules for CBS, right, all sorts of rules for NBC New York Times, and then Twitter whatever, Instagram sure, largest social media platform owned by the Chinese government.

Yeah, I mean that for for Elon is a rounding error, but you know, certainly he wants and I mean I have to wonder how much of Elon's ambitions for Trump have to do with AI and the future of AI and not having any regulation there. I mean, one of the ways in which the American government on the left and the right has just completely fucked up beyond recognition is they decided not to ever do any regulation when it comes to technology or social media. So you have CBS is not allowed to be owned by you know, there are all sorts of rules for CBS, right, all sorts of rules for NBC New York Times, and then Twitter whatever, Instagram sure, largest social media platform owned by the Chinese government.

Like, what are we doing?

Like, what are we doing?

Man?

Man?

What? I'm sorry, That's all I have to say.

What? I'm sorry, That's all I have to say.

What do you think, Evan about sort of the takeover by social media of the political realm and just talk about how you've seen this campaign on phone on your phone.

What do you think, Evan about sort of the takeover by social media of the political realm and just talk about how you've seen this campaign on phone on your phone.

So I would push back at the idea of this being like the first social media election. I do think this took place in twenty sixteen as well. I think the big difference would be the level of engagement from the campaigns themselves, because I do think people were very active on social media in twenty sixteen, and the candidates were as well, But there was a different way in which they were speaking to the platform at that time. So that's a big difference.

So I would push back at the idea of this being like the first social media election. I do think this took place in twenty sixteen as well. I think the big difference would be the level of engagement from the campaigns themselves, because I do think people were very active on social media in twenty sixteen, and the candidates were as well, But there was a different way in which they were speaking to the platform at that time. So that's a big difference.

Yeah, I guess. I mean that they've taken full advantage of social media and almost it feels like to me, as someone who's covered these elections for a while, it feels like a social media first strategy in some ways. And of course maybe that's because I don't watch that much television and I'm on my phone and this is where I'm getting the messaging.

Yeah, I guess. I mean that they've taken full advantage of social media and almost it feels like to me, as someone who's covered these elections for a while, it feels like a social media first strategy in some ways. And of course maybe that's because I don't watch that much television and I'm on my phone and this is where I'm getting the messaging.

But go on. Yeah, and I often feel like you can watch television by going on social media because people are clipping out the moments that you need to see. So in essence, we are watching television even though we aren't going to the platform itself. But what I see is the big difference with something like Kamala HQ, for instance, is that they're able to actually post clips of the opposing party, like the opposing ticket, and make them look dumb. And that is something that I think is unique. If you go to Kamala Harris's Instagram page, you're not going to see clips of Trump looking stupid in an interview, but on Kamala HQ you will. There are some key moments, for instance, jd Vance at the donut shop looking like an idiot that is not going to be posted on Kamala's account, that the HQ account can seize on that moment, a moment that has so much virality potential and actually use the Kamala HQ account to disseminate a video like that that wouldn't have a home elsewhere. So there's an own ability to being able to dunk on someone like Trump that Kamala HQ has seized on. And interestingly, on the inverse side, Trump does not have a form of Trump HQ. So what that ended up being was the attempt of that was sort of the original. There was some account that that was the one that first put out the Kamala coconut video up going viral. How was their attempt to sort of create the Kamala HQ narrative on their side, But it ends up backfiring and people just ended up loving it. And then Kamala HQ came grabbed that clip and said no, this is actually wonderful and people bought that. So I feel like the Republican Party has not been able to find the counterpoint to Kamala HQ.

But go on. Yeah, and I often feel like you can watch television by going on social media because people are clipping out the moments that you need to see. So in essence, we are watching television even though we aren't going to the platform itself. But what I see is the big difference with something like Kamala HQ, for instance, is that they're able to actually post clips of the opposing party, like the opposing ticket, and make them look dumb. And that is something that I think is unique. If you go to Kamala Harris's Instagram page, you're not going to see clips of Trump looking stupid in an interview, but on Kamala HQ you will. There are some key moments, for instance, jd Vance at the donut shop looking like an idiot that is not going to be posted on Kamala's account, that the HQ account can seize on that moment, a moment that has so much virality potential and actually use the Kamala HQ account to disseminate a video like that that wouldn't have a home elsewhere. So there's an own ability to being able to dunk on someone like Trump that Kamala HQ has seized on. And interestingly, on the inverse side, Trump does not have a form of Trump HQ. So what that ended up being was the attempt of that was sort of the original. There was some account that that was the one that first put out the Kamala coconut video up going viral. How was their attempt to sort of create the Kamala HQ narrative on their side, But it ends up backfiring and people just ended up loving it. And then Kamala HQ came grabbed that clip and said no, this is actually wonderful and people bought that. So I feel like the Republican Party has not been able to find the counterpoint to Kamala HQ.

It's a really good point, av'd said that, I've seen a lot of posts and a lot of videos making fun or mocking Kamala Harris from the GOP side. I'm not sure if they are as coordinated as Kamala HQ or whatever, but I do see a lot of memes and jokes made about Kamala Harris. Maybe it's just less centralized.

It's a really good point, av'd said that, I've seen a lot of posts and a lot of videos making fun or mocking Kamala Harris from the GOP side. I'm not sure if they are as coordinated as Kamala HQ or whatever, but I do see a lot of memes and jokes made about Kamala Harris. Maybe it's just less centralized.

Yes, I think they're certainly out there. I think that, you know, Internet parlance is its own language, and I think within that language, Trump is just an easier target because he's just more quotable for better for us, depending on your perspective. But I also think in the time that Kamala has been come the nominee her team, I think at the advice of her team, she's become a little bit more buttoned up in sort of, you know, being more careful about offering up quotes like akin to just thought out the coconut tree. So she has not given us as much opportunity to you know, make her go viral. I think even if you look at her DNC speech, that was very carefully crafted it in my opinion, so that it would you know, eliminate the possibility of remarks of hers being turned into TikTok videos.

Yes, I think they're certainly out there. I think that, you know, Internet parlance is its own language, and I think within that language, Trump is just an easier target because he's just more quotable for better for us, depending on your perspective. But I also think in the time that Kamala has been come the nominee her team, I think at the advice of her team, she's become a little bit more buttoned up in sort of, you know, being more careful about offering up quotes like akin to just thought out the coconut tree. So she has not given us as much opportunity to you know, make her go viral. I think even if you look at her DNC speech, that was very carefully crafted it in my opinion, so that it would you know, eliminate the possibility of remarks of hers being turned into TikTok videos.

If you want to get smarter every morning with a breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter, Wake Up Call by going to Katiecouric dot com.

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You think you just fell of a coconut tree?

You think you just fell of a coconut tree?

Do you exist in the.

Do you exist in the.

Context of all in which you live and what came before you?

Context of all in which you live and what came before you?

Let's talk about those TikTok videos, Molly. Obviously a lot of people, particularly younger people, are getting their news and information from TikTok and I know that again, Kamala Harris's social media team is really exploiting that platform. Do you think, Molly, that's going to translate into a lot of younger people going to the polls? What do you think that will do for the race come election day?

Let's talk about those TikTok videos, Molly. Obviously a lot of people, particularly younger people, are getting their news and information from TikTok and I know that again, Kamala Harris's social media team is really exploiting that platform. Do you think, Molly, that's going to translate into a lot of younger people going to the polls? What do you think that will do for the race come election day?

So that's the ten billion dollar question that we're all sitting around wondering about because polls are so right.

So that's the ten billion dollar question that we're all sitting around wondering about because polls are so right.

Landline polling is not what it used to be.

Landline polling is not what it used to be.

I mean, does anyone here even have a landline? Do you have a landline?

I mean, does anyone here even have a landline? Do you have a landline?

I don't.

I don't.

Nope, I don't.

Nope, I don't.

Either, So there we go. So landline polling is not as useful an indicator as it once was from what I understanding, Again, I'm not a big TikTok user, but from what I understand, there's a lot Harris has a lot of virality on TikTok with young people. The campaigns I've talked to, when I've talked to a lot of campaigns said that as she swapped over to her in July, that the enthusiasm was enormous.

Either, So there we go. So landline polling is not as useful an indicator as it once was from what I understanding, Again, I'm not a big TikTok user, but from what I understand, there's a lot Harris has a lot of virality on TikTok with young people. The campaigns I've talked to, when I've talked to a lot of campaigns said that as she swapped over to her in July, that the enthusiasm was enormous.

She raised a.

She raised a.

Billion dollars, right, and that was that's a lot of money, and it's the most ever in three months. So I think that. And then the voter registration is a first time voter registration was spurred on by that people. You had people, you know, singers and Taylor Swift. That was who I was thinking of, actually, people like Taylor Swift. And she she drove Gonzo numbers for voter registration. So again, who knows, but it was all seemed like very good indicators to me. The polls again are tight. The trajectory though, has been largely good. She has opened the map in states that were not in play under Joe Biden, like North Carolina and Georgia, and there's a real feeling especially in North Carolina with so one of the things that has happened in North Carolina and Florida, Lessardston and Georgia. Is that because of inflation, because of climate change. The insurance has become crazy high in Florida and North Carolina flood insurance in some places, they don't do it, government has to do it. It's a gazillion dollars. And so there is a sense that that is from climate change and that perhaps voters will in fact that is a part of inflation. That really could be, That could be really a that could be very good for Harris.

Billion dollars, right, and that was that's a lot of money, and it's the most ever in three months. So I think that. And then the voter registration is a first time voter registration was spurred on by that people. You had people, you know, singers and Taylor Swift. That was who I was thinking of, actually, people like Taylor Swift. And she she drove Gonzo numbers for voter registration. So again, who knows, but it was all seemed like very good indicators to me. The polls again are tight. The trajectory though, has been largely good. She has opened the map in states that were not in play under Joe Biden, like North Carolina and Georgia, and there's a real feeling especially in North Carolina with so one of the things that has happened in North Carolina and Florida, Lessardston and Georgia. Is that because of inflation, because of climate change. The insurance has become crazy high in Florida and North Carolina flood insurance in some places, they don't do it, government has to do it. It's a gazillion dollars. And so there is a sense that that is from climate change and that perhaps voters will in fact that is a part of inflation. That really could be, That could be really a that could be very good for Harris.

Yeah, I'm motivating for Harris and Evan. What do you think do you think that these social media clips and various things that are being posted will have an impact? You know, maybe Trump doesn't have Kamala HQ, but again, I've seen a ton of pro Trump things and things making fun of Kamala. As I said, less organized perhaps, but certainly out there in a big way. What impact do you think all of this is having on young voters.

Yeah, I'm motivating for Harris and Evan. What do you think do you think that these social media clips and various things that are being posted will have an impact? You know, maybe Trump doesn't have Kamala HQ, but again, I've seen a ton of pro Trump things and things making fun of Kamala. As I said, less organized perhaps, but certainly out there in a big way. What impact do you think all of this is having on young voters.

Well, it's interesting you say that because recently Kamala was on the cover of Vogue and I went to the comment section of Vogue's Instagram account and it is just a ton of pro Trump, pro vance rhetoric on there, which is a great example to your point of the fact that like there, despite the fact that you have accounts like Kamala HQ, there is a ton of support for Trump on social media. You I think it has impact. I mean that is the million dollar question. I think that it doctrinates hope and as evidence in Kamala's messaging and during Barack Obama's campaign years ago, you really can't undervalue hope, right. I think to dismiss the idea that hope is a powerful weapon is, you know, a misguided sort of attempt. But is it going to make a significant change. Who's to say. But I have to believe it can. And so I think I lean on that hope to sort of be the driving force that it's posting things like memes or viral clips, gets people talking, and I like to believe I am choosing to believe that that conversation is going to whether it be an uncommitted voter or whether it be a first time voter, or whether it be a former Trumper who's on the fence about voting your him, I choose to believe that it makes a difference.

Well, it's interesting you say that because recently Kamala was on the cover of Vogue and I went to the comment section of Vogue's Instagram account and it is just a ton of pro Trump, pro vance rhetoric on there, which is a great example to your point of the fact that like there, despite the fact that you have accounts like Kamala HQ, there is a ton of support for Trump on social media. You I think it has impact. I mean that is the million dollar question. I think that it doctrinates hope and as evidence in Kamala's messaging and during Barack Obama's campaign years ago, you really can't undervalue hope, right. I think to dismiss the idea that hope is a powerful weapon is, you know, a misguided sort of attempt. But is it going to make a significant change. Who's to say. But I have to believe it can. And so I think I lean on that hope to sort of be the driving force that it's posting things like memes or viral clips, gets people talking, and I like to believe I am choosing to believe that that conversation is going to whether it be an uncommitted voter or whether it be a first time voter, or whether it be a former Trumper who's on the fence about voting your him, I choose to believe that it makes a difference.

How many of those comments you'd think are bots.

How many of those comments you'd think are bots.

You know.

You know.

I always try to look and I look at the profile, and oftentimes they have zero followers and they're following a few people, and it's really hard to determine. My team will always is saying, especially if people say nasty things to me, Oh those are bots?

I always try to look and I look at the profile, and oftentimes they have zero followers and they're following a few people, and it's really hard to determine. My team will always is saying, especially if people say nasty things to me, Oh those are bots?

Are they? That's a great question. I to click on the profiles themselves. I think it's hard to really know, That's the thing. But if you're simply going, let's say they are bots, right, let's say one hundred percent of them are bots. If you're someone like me and you're going in the comment section and all you're seeing is Trump, Trump, Trump, TROMP Trump and you don't know that they're or even if you do, Liller Box, it's still in that moment is like, wow, where is the Kamala support? You know, I couldn't help that be my takeaway from the Vogue comment section. So again, even if they are bots, it's effective in the fact that it leaves you thinking I left the comment section of Vogue being like, Wow, I'm not feeling great about this, you know, So I think that, Yeah, I still think it's powerful even if it is Box Sadly.

Are they? That's a great question. I to click on the profiles themselves. I think it's hard to really know, That's the thing. But if you're simply going, let's say they are bots, right, let's say one hundred percent of them are bots. If you're someone like me and you're going in the comment section and all you're seeing is Trump, Trump, Trump, TROMP Trump and you don't know that they're or even if you do, Liller Box, it's still in that moment is like, wow, where is the Kamala support? You know, I couldn't help that be my takeaway from the Vogue comment section. So again, even if they are bots, it's effective in the fact that it leaves you thinking I left the comment section of Vogue being like, Wow, I'm not feeling great about this, you know, So I think that, Yeah, I still think it's powerful even if it is Box Sadly.

Yeah, I think you and I are probably some of the few people who read comments on Instagram, but I'm fascinated by them, and I read them on other people's account because I want to hear what people are saying and what they are thinking. But I'm curious what you both think about Kamala's choices Harris's choices. Someone said you shouldn't be Kamala versus Trump, you should be Harris versus Trump. That it's gendered to say Kamala. But what do you think of Vice President Harris's choices? In terms of media interviews, she was getting a lot of blowback for not doing interviews and now she is. But the interviews she's doing are not mainstream anchors. You know, it's now Lesterhole, David Muir, nomra O'Donnell. Yes, she did sixty minutes, and we'll talk about that in a moment, but that was really and the view I think, which has become sort of appointment viewing for anybody for appointment, I guess, an appointment of appearance. What would that be for anybody running for office? But you know, the call her Daddy with Alex Cooper, who's got millions, especially young women listening to her podcast Howard Stern. That wasn't that surprising? And our team was talking about the fact that Hillary Clinton said she regretted not doing Howard Stern before twenty sixteen, and then she's done a lot of other podcasts, some local media, et cetera, et cetera. What do you think of that and what do you think it says about the media today, Molly. I mean, if I were a network anchor, I'd be pulling my hair out and going a little crazy.

Yeah, I think you and I are probably some of the few people who read comments on Instagram, but I'm fascinated by them, and I read them on other people's account because I want to hear what people are saying and what they are thinking. But I'm curious what you both think about Kamala's choices Harris's choices. Someone said you shouldn't be Kamala versus Trump, you should be Harris versus Trump. That it's gendered to say Kamala. But what do you think of Vice President Harris's choices? In terms of media interviews, she was getting a lot of blowback for not doing interviews and now she is. But the interviews she's doing are not mainstream anchors. You know, it's now Lesterhole, David Muir, nomra O'Donnell. Yes, she did sixty minutes, and we'll talk about that in a moment, but that was really and the view I think, which has become sort of appointment viewing for anybody for appointment, I guess, an appointment of appearance. What would that be for anybody running for office? But you know, the call her Daddy with Alex Cooper, who's got millions, especially young women listening to her podcast Howard Stern. That wasn't that surprising? And our team was talking about the fact that Hillary Clinton said she regretted not doing Howard Stern before twenty sixteen, and then she's done a lot of other podcasts, some local media, et cetera, et cetera. What do you think of that and what do you think it says about the media today, Molly. I mean, if I were a network anchor, I'd be pulling my hair out and going a little crazy.

And in fact they are, well, look, you know it's my siloed media, right, and you want to meet the voters where they are, and they happen to be at call her daddy, right. Five million, up to ten million women, a lot of independence, a lot of Republicans. Those are people who are not watching CBS News, right. Those are people who are not They're not There's no world in which they are going to be turning on the tvn I think that is really what she's doing. And she's trying to go to where the voters are. Now do I think they should go? I think they should do more of that, right, I think they should go if they want to win, like go on theovon right. Tell me if you think that's crazy, Evan, but go on theo Von. This is the guy who I just recently learned about who has a very insane mullet.

And in fact they are, well, look, you know it's my siloed media, right, and you want to meet the voters where they are, and they happen to be at call her daddy, right. Five million, up to ten million women, a lot of independence, a lot of Republicans. Those are people who are not watching CBS News, right. Those are people who are not They're not There's no world in which they are going to be turning on the tvn I think that is really what she's doing. And she's trying to go to where the voters are. Now do I think they should go? I think they should do more of that, right, I think they should go if they want to win, like go on theovon right. Tell me if you think that's crazy, Evan, but go on theo Von. This is the guy who I just recently learned about who has a very insane mullet.

Other than his mullet, tell me more.

Other than his mullet, tell me more.

I think you got to go to Evan on this.

I think you got to go to Evan on this.

No, I'll be honest with you. I had never heard of him until this interview, so I think it did a great service for people like me. I'm a pop culture chronic layer, but he's not right on my radar whatsoever, and now he is as a result of this, So it was a very mutually beneficial interview for both of them. And to your point, Katie, I think there are a lot of people who had never uttered the phrase call her daddy until this appearance. So it ends up benefiting this new media ecosystem because there are lots of people that are going to say, I enjoyed this interview that Alex Cooper did with Kamala. I'm going to listen to more call her Daddy, whether or not the audience will be satiated by what they hear. Hard to say, but like this is a backscratching on both sides. And also the numbers are there. I mean That's the other thing is like these are they're there, Like the people who listen to Joe Rogan do not listen to any other mainstream news. I mean that may not be.

No, I'll be honest with you. I had never heard of him until this interview, so I think it did a great service for people like me. I'm a pop culture chronic layer, but he's not right on my radar whatsoever, and now he is as a result of this, So it was a very mutually beneficial interview for both of them. And to your point, Katie, I think there are a lot of people who had never uttered the phrase call her daddy until this appearance. So it ends up benefiting this new media ecosystem because there are lots of people that are going to say, I enjoyed this interview that Alex Cooper did with Kamala. I'm going to listen to more call her Daddy, whether or not the audience will be satiated by what they hear. Hard to say, but like this is a backscratching on both sides. And also the numbers are there. I mean That's the other thing is like these are they're there, Like the people who listen to Joe Rogan do not listen to any other mainstream news. I mean that may not be.

Completely true, but I think a lot of them he is their trusted messenger.

Completely true, but I think a lot of them he is their trusted messenger.

Well why wouldn't Tim You know, I had this conversation with Ezra Kline a couple of weeks ago, you guys, and I'm curious, why wouldn't Tim Walls go on Joe Rogan? Why wouldn't he go on all these sports radio podcasts and newscasts or whatever to appeal to more male voters, because they are having a nand problem of particularly a young man problem, particularly young men of color problem.

Well why wouldn't Tim You know, I had this conversation with Ezra Kline a couple of weeks ago, you guys, and I'm curious, why wouldn't Tim Walls go on Joe Rogan? Why wouldn't he go on all these sports radio podcasts and newscasts or whatever to appeal to more male voters, because they are having a nand problem of particularly a young man problem, particularly young men of color problem.

Today, I texted Tim Walls and said, you should go on Joe Rogan. I literally did. I was like, you should go on Joe Rogan, go on Joe Rogan, go on.

Today, I texted Tim Walls and said, you should go on Joe Rogan. I literally did. I was like, you should go on Joe Rogan, go on Joe Rogan, go on.

And did he text you back?

And did he text you back?

Yes, And I said, let Walls be Walls, and he said that maybe that's some of the problems, but yeah, I mean I think they're doing that.

Yes, And I said, let Walls be Walls, and he said that maybe that's some of the problems, but yeah, I mean I think they're doing that.

He was just on, wait, Molly, you have a texting relationship with Tim Walls.

He was just on, wait, Molly, you have a texting relationship with Tim Walls.

Us. I interviewed him and I was like, you guys, this guy's good.

Us. I interviewed him and I was like, you guys, this guy's good.

Now.

Now.

Of course, by the way, if she loses Pennsylvania, I will have been completely wrong. So I'm trying not you know, because if if she if Shapiro would have meant winning Pennsylvania.

Of course, by the way, if she loses Pennsylvania, I will have been completely wrong. So I'm trying not you know, because if if she if Shapiro would have meant winning Pennsylvania.

Who knows. But uh, yeah, no.

Who knows. But uh, yeah, no.

I interviewed him and thought, this guy he was the door, he's the uh, he's the was the head of the governors, the Democratic Governors Association. So I'd interviewed him before, and he was famous for having passed a lot of progressive legislation, not so different than Pennsylvania, but free school lunches, free school breakfasts, a lot of stuff for kids that was very exciting to me. And so when I interviewed him, I thought he was a folksy guy who would be really good for this.

I interviewed him and thought, this guy he was the door, he's the uh, he's the was the head of the governors, the Democratic Governors Association. So I'd interviewed him before, and he was famous for having passed a lot of progressive legislation, not so different than Pennsylvania, but free school lunches, free school breakfasts, a lot of stuff for kids that was very exciting to me. And so when I interviewed him, I thought he was a folksy guy who would be really good for this.

Why do you think, Evan, that Tim Walls isn't sort of everywhere? Do you think they're nervous to let Tim be Tim?

Why do you think, Evan, that Tim Walls isn't sort of everywhere? Do you think they're nervous to let Tim be Tim?

I mean I would be to an extent in that. So for me, if you would have asked me this question before the VP debate, I would have been, like, sent him anywhere he can be. He's a huge important figure for us to, you know, as someone to go out there and disseminate the messages of Kamala Harris. But I think after that debate performance and the stumbling nature of it, I would be nervous in a situation like Joe Rogan, who Joe Rogan is an interviewer who has an agenda despite the fact that he might not say as such, and there are going to be some gotcha questions in there. And I think if Walls proved anything in that VP debate, despite the fact that he got very lucky by having an eleventh hour Hail Mary, I think that there are possibilities of him being walked into giving answers that are going to go against the ticket and potentially become viral talking points that work against Kabala. So while I do think he should go on Joe Rogan, I understand the weariness from the campaign.

I mean I would be to an extent in that. So for me, if you would have asked me this question before the VP debate, I would have been, like, sent him anywhere he can be. He's a huge important figure for us to, you know, as someone to go out there and disseminate the messages of Kamala Harris. But I think after that debate performance and the stumbling nature of it, I would be nervous in a situation like Joe Rogan, who Joe Rogan is an interviewer who has an agenda despite the fact that he might not say as such, and there are going to be some gotcha questions in there. And I think if Walls proved anything in that VP debate, despite the fact that he got very lucky by having an eleventh hour Hail Mary, I think that there are possibilities of him being walked into giving answers that are going to go against the ticket and potentially become viral talking points that work against Kabala. So while I do think he should go on Joe Rogan, I understand the weariness from the campaign.

What do you think, Molly, I mean, you know Tim Walls. Are you surprised that he kind of whiffed on a couple of questions during the debate? Seemed very nervous, the weird Tiananmen square thing, I'm a knucklehead. Did you expect him to be a little more sophisticated in those debates? And can you think that lack of slickness, if you will, may actually help him with voters.

What do you think, Molly, I mean, you know Tim Walls. Are you surprised that he kind of whiffed on a couple of questions during the debate? Seemed very nervous, the weird Tiananmen square thing, I'm a knucklehead. Did you expect him to be a little more sophisticated in those debates? And can you think that lack of slickness, if you will, may actually help him with voters.

Well that's that's the twenty four million dollar question, right is does that actually maybe help him? And again who it's the great unknown. I did see him today talking about football with Michael Strahan, so more of that is good. And they are having him go to football games, which is great because he is a football coach. He was nervous. I think that some of what happened there was bad debate prep, right, because he had all this information and he only needed to just be authentic and not I mean, let me just say one thing though, which was they decided not to fact check, which meant that it was on him to fact check. And Jade Vance is very smooth and is a very good talker and does a lot of media and is you know, can disseminate information very very quickly. And I think that that got his backup. Look with the tenement square answer, he should have just said yeah is wrong and let it go like there was some stuff just because he's so new at this.

Well that's that's the twenty four million dollar question, right is does that actually maybe help him? And again who it's the great unknown. I did see him today talking about football with Michael Strahan, so more of that is good. And they are having him go to football games, which is great because he is a football coach. He was nervous. I think that some of what happened there was bad debate prep, right, because he had all this information and he only needed to just be authentic and not I mean, let me just say one thing though, which was they decided not to fact check, which meant that it was on him to fact check. And Jade Vance is very smooth and is a very good talker and does a lot of media and is you know, can disseminate information very very quickly. And I think that that got his backup. Look with the tenement square answer, he should have just said yeah is wrong and let it go like there was some stuff just because he's so new at this.

I misspoke and I didn't mean to, and that was a mistake. Like move on, I agree, less would have been more.

I misspoke and I didn't mean to, and that was a mistake. Like move on, I agree, less would have been more.

And he is. But you have to remember this is a guy who didn't know how to read a prompt. They had to teach him how to read the prompter. So like this is legit. He was a backbencher in Congress, and then he was a governor of a state that's not so much on anyone's radar. I mean, we love Minnesota, don't get me wrong, but you know it's not California. So he did. He came from really where his vans had done it pressed to, he had written books, had been the darling of the.

And he is. But you have to remember this is a guy who didn't know how to read a prompt. They had to teach him how to read the prompter. So like this is legit. He was a backbencher in Congress, and then he was a governor of a state that's not so much on anyone's radar. I mean, we love Minnesota, don't get me wrong, but you know it's not California. So he did. He came from really where his vans had done it pressed to, he had written books, had been the darling of the.

You know, I'd done so many interviews that certainly had a very different persona there during the debate. You know, he was very pugnacious and difficult for people to interview, and you know, would throw things back at them. It was very tricky interviews situation. I thought Dana Bash did a good job because I was like, good Lord, I would be I would need some depends or something if I can.

You know, I'd done so many interviews that certainly had a very different persona there during the debate. You know, he was very pugnacious and difficult for people to interview, and you know, would throw things back at them. It was very tricky interviews situation. I thought Dana Bash did a good job because I was like, good Lord, I would be I would need some depends or something if I can.

I add though, just like what I've been most surprised with in the past few weeks has been the lack of presence from a lot of the surrogates who really stood out at the DNC. So thinking about AOC, thinking about Pete Budha Judge, thinking about Jasmine Crockett. There were so many huge, clippable moments that came out of the DNC that I think really excited not only the base but people that had kind of soured on the Democratic Party, and I thought there was an opportunity to seize on that momentum that was formed at the debate. And I've just been really surprised, I mean, especially with Pete, like where has Pete been recently? And I know that's probably no choice of Pete's, but so yes, I think it's important to have walls out there, but I actually am sort of disappointed in the lack of other surrogates coming out and doing things like I'd love to see Pete Buddha Judge on Joe Rogan.

I add though, just like what I've been most surprised with in the past few weeks has been the lack of presence from a lot of the surrogates who really stood out at the DNC. So thinking about AOC, thinking about Pete Budha Judge, thinking about Jasmine Crockett. There were so many huge, clippable moments that came out of the DNC that I think really excited not only the base but people that had kind of soured on the Democratic Party, and I thought there was an opportunity to seize on that momentum that was formed at the debate. And I've just been really surprised, I mean, especially with Pete, like where has Pete been recently? And I know that's probably no choice of Pete's, but so yes, I think it's important to have walls out there, but I actually am sort of disappointed in the lack of other surrogates coming out and doing things like I'd love to see Pete Buddha Judge on Joe Rogan.

Right, I would too.

Right, I would too.

You know that's interesting because I just interviewed James Carville about his documentary and about some other things, and actually at a Google conference as well, and he was just hop and mad about the fact that they have not And just actually this week we saw Obama give a speech in Pittsburgh and talk to campaign headquarters, and he said Bill Clinton should be making himself available to local stations in every swing state in the country. Who's going to turn down an interview with Bill Clinton? Who's going to turn down an interview with Barack or Michelle Obama or anybody? And it does seem like they haven't. According to James, he was criticizing them for simply not being aggressive enough. What do you think of that assessment moment?

You know that's interesting because I just interviewed James Carville about his documentary and about some other things, and actually at a Google conference as well, and he was just hop and mad about the fact that they have not And just actually this week we saw Obama give a speech in Pittsburgh and talk to campaign headquarters, and he said Bill Clinton should be making himself available to local stations in every swing state in the country. Who's going to turn down an interview with Bill Clinton? Who's going to turn down an interview with Barack or Michelle Obama or anybody? And it does seem like they haven't. According to James, he was criticizing them for simply not being aggressive enough. What do you think of that assessment moment?

So, I know Bill Clinton is doing a Southern States tour, so that is coming up, So that is definitely happening.

So, I know Bill Clinton is doing a Southern States tour, so that is coming up, So that is definitely happening.

But I mean, what took so long?

But I mean, what took so long?

Molli, Well again, yes, I agree, and I actually was talking to some Yes, agreed.

Molli, Well again, yes, I agree, and I actually was talking to some Yes, agreed.

Oh, go ahead, give us some tea, Mollie.

Oh, go ahead, give us some tea, Mollie.

Okay. The one thing I would say first a Mayor Pete. Mayor Pete did in fact do something very cool. So Elon Musk was talking about how he was having trouble getting into North Carolina and a lot of the lies about the federal government, and Mayor Pete called Elon and explained to him about what was happening with the airspace and Elon was like, oh that makes sense, So good on Mayor Pete. For I mean, look, Elon is really problematic, but he is the richest man in the world, and he does control.

Okay. The one thing I would say first a Mayor Pete. Mayor Pete did in fact do something very cool. So Elon Musk was talking about how he was having trouble getting into North Carolina and a lot of the lies about the federal government, and Mayor Pete called Elon and explained to him about what was happening with the airspace and Elon was like, oh that makes sense, So good on Mayor Pete. For I mean, look, Elon is really problematic, but he is the richest man in the world, and he does control.

He has so much influence. How many followers does.

He has so much influence. How many followers does.

He have on X you guys, well, it's hard to know if that follower count is real, but.

He have on X you guys, well, it's hard to know if that follower count is real, but.

He controls forty or to sixty percent of all the satellites.

He controls forty or to sixty percent of all the satellites.

That's real.

That's real.

I mean that's a big fucking deal. Like that guy, you know, communication, and I mean he can so I do think that was a really cool thing. But yes, they should and Mayor Pete and Tim Walls. Tim was on Fox News last week on the Sunday Show.

I mean that's a big fucking deal. Like that guy, you know, communication, and I mean he can so I do think that was a really cool thing. But yes, they should and Mayor Pete and Tim Walls. Tim was on Fox News last week on the Sunday Show.

Write more of that.

Write more of that.

Put them on Fox. I mean, put them on everything. You can get them on, right, put everyone on everything.

Put them on Fox. I mean, put them on everything. You can get them on, right, put everyone on everything.

Pete is brilliant on Fox, by the way. I mean, I think he leaves the anchors kind of speechless when he makes points, and it's actually very interesting to watch the dynamics of that. I wanted to ask you about the line by the Trump campaign because Molly he wrote a piece about that, and I think it was particularly evident, perhaps because it was in a concentrated period of time during Hurricane Helene and the aftermath. Not to mention, obviously, what was going on in Springfield, Ohio with Haitian immigrants. Why do people care? Why do his supporters not care, or do they not believe he is lying? It's hard to fathom that nothing, absolutely nothing seems to be moving the needle. There doesn't seem to be any respect for the truth anymore.

Pete is brilliant on Fox, by the way. I mean, I think he leaves the anchors kind of speechless when he makes points, and it's actually very interesting to watch the dynamics of that. I wanted to ask you about the line by the Trump campaign because Molly he wrote a piece about that, and I think it was particularly evident, perhaps because it was in a concentrated period of time during Hurricane Helene and the aftermath. Not to mention, obviously, what was going on in Springfield, Ohio with Haitian immigrants. Why do people care? Why do his supporters not care, or do they not believe he is lying? It's hard to fathom that nothing, absolutely nothing seems to be moving the needle. There doesn't seem to be any respect for the truth anymore.

The thing that I'm struck by is that there was so much gentility at one point, right we had you would have people like John McCain who would say, you know, he's not a Muslim, right.

The thing that I'm struck by is that there was so much gentility at one point, right we had you would have people like John McCain who would say, you know, he's not a Muslim, right.

Is stopping a woman in the crowd who was criticizing that is such an incredible piece of video. Evan, I don't know if you've seen that. You should watch John McCain chastising gently a woman in a campaign crowd for yelling that Barack Obama is a Muslim. He said, he's a fine American. You just would never see that. Today, I got to ask.

Is stopping a woman in the crowd who was criticizing that is such an incredible piece of video. Evan, I don't know if you've seen that. You should watch John McCain chastising gently a woman in a campaign crowd for yelling that Barack Obama is a Muslim. He said, he's a fine American. You just would never see that. Today, I got to ask.

You a question. I do not believe in. I can't trust Obama.

You a question. I do not believe in. I can't trust Obama.

I have read about him, and he's not He's not he's a he's an Arab. He is not no no, no man, no man.

I have read about him, and he's not He's not he's a he's an Arab. He is not no no, no man, no man.

He's a He's a He's a decent family man, citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues and that's what this campaign is all about.

He's a He's a He's a decent family man, citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues and that's what this campaign is all about.

He's not thank you, thank you. Yes, you would never see it from Trump and his people, Right, it's the opposite of MAGA. If MAGA loses, I could see a world where these people start saying, you know, I never supported it. I was a McCain person. I mean, you know, success has a thousand fathers, failure none. Right, So I do think that that if that happens, which again is not a feed of compley, I think that. Yeah. The part of it is that they trust Trump more than they trust other things, including their friends and family, and so Trump can say something is true, and even if it's not true, they will still believe it to be true, or they will believe it to be close enough that they will follow it. I mean, the answer is to have more content modernation. Right, if they didn't see on Facebook things that weren't true, if they didn't see on X or on TikTok, if they saw stuff where it said you know. I mean one of the good things about X is they have community notes, so you can see when Marjorie Taylor Green says they can control the weather, it has fifteen community notes on it.

He's not thank you, thank you. Yes, you would never see it from Trump and his people, Right, it's the opposite of MAGA. If MAGA loses, I could see a world where these people start saying, you know, I never supported it. I was a McCain person. I mean, you know, success has a thousand fathers, failure none. Right, So I do think that that if that happens, which again is not a feed of compley, I think that. Yeah. The part of it is that they trust Trump more than they trust other things, including their friends and family, and so Trump can say something is true, and even if it's not true, they will still believe it to be true, or they will believe it to be close enough that they will follow it. I mean, the answer is to have more content modernation. Right, if they didn't see on Facebook things that weren't true, if they didn't see on X or on TikTok, if they saw stuff where it said you know. I mean one of the good things about X is they have community notes, so you can see when Marjorie Taylor Green says they can control the weather, it has fifteen community notes on it.

I don't think it's the media's fault. But no, certainly not. But this bifurcation of the media, this absolute destruction of traditional media with any gatekeepers, any kind of editing, any kind of you know, fact checking, has really just as my father in law says, lifted the lid off the sewer and completely allowed anyone to say whatever they want. And then I think it becomes very tribal and people just listen to what they want to listen to that confirms their point of view. So I don't know how to fix this. Is there any way you say content moderation? I mean, is the genie out of the bottle in your view?

I don't think it's the media's fault. But no, certainly not. But this bifurcation of the media, this absolute destruction of traditional media with any gatekeepers, any kind of editing, any kind of you know, fact checking, has really just as my father in law says, lifted the lid off the sewer and completely allowed anyone to say whatever they want. And then I think it becomes very tribal and people just listen to what they want to listen to that confirms their point of view. So I don't know how to fix this. Is there any way you say content moderation? I mean, is the genie out of the bottle in your view?

Evan hmmm, yes. But I also feel like, so it's a different ballgame that has to be played now, but we have to be willing to still play the game. So I think, though I don't have the solution necessarily, I think that we have to stay activated and say motivated and find ways to say yes if we don't have content moderation, for instance, if we have you know, whatever Elon Musk is running sites like Twitter, how can we take the how can we find and take the best from it? Because as I said earlier, I'm still extracting information from Twitter. I still find it very valuable. There are still reputable news organizations on Twitter putting out reputable news. So it's not as though these places are entirely sewers. You know, there's things to be found from them. What we need is people that are able to find the best aspects of these and extract them and disseminate them to an audience willing to hear them. But again, too, you don't want to get into this situation where you're speaking into echo chambers. Right the most important voters right now are the undecided, are the ones who have valuable opinions, And so I think part of the worry that I have, even with a platform like mine, is that I'm speaking to the people who already have their minds made up. So I think there needs to be more willingness from people to dignify those undecided voters. But I see a lot of right now from people that I follow, is shitting on undecided voters and being like these idiots, How could you not be convinced with everything that we've seen that Kama is the right candidate. And while I understand that mentality, that is not a helpful mentality and indoctrinating these undecided voters to make a decision. And so I think we need to be more respectful on social media of those who are still weighing their options and say, you know what, I hear you. I hear that you don't have your mind made up. And here's why I think that I can be effective in helping convince you.

Evan hmmm, yes. But I also feel like, so it's a different ballgame that has to be played now, but we have to be willing to still play the game. So I think, though I don't have the solution necessarily, I think that we have to stay activated and say motivated and find ways to say yes if we don't have content moderation, for instance, if we have you know, whatever Elon Musk is running sites like Twitter, how can we take the how can we find and take the best from it? Because as I said earlier, I'm still extracting information from Twitter. I still find it very valuable. There are still reputable news organizations on Twitter putting out reputable news. So it's not as though these places are entirely sewers. You know, there's things to be found from them. What we need is people that are able to find the best aspects of these and extract them and disseminate them to an audience willing to hear them. But again, too, you don't want to get into this situation where you're speaking into echo chambers. Right the most important voters right now are the undecided, are the ones who have valuable opinions, And so I think part of the worry that I have, even with a platform like mine, is that I'm speaking to the people who already have their minds made up. So I think there needs to be more willingness from people to dignify those undecided voters. But I see a lot of right now from people that I follow, is shitting on undecided voters and being like these idiots, How could you not be convinced with everything that we've seen that Kama is the right candidate. And while I understand that mentality, that is not a helpful mentality and indoctrinating these undecided voters to make a decision. And so I think we need to be more respectful on social media of those who are still weighing their options and say, you know what, I hear you. I hear that you don't have your mind made up. And here's why I think that I can be effective in helping convince you.

Mollie, can you describe the undecided voter today? Because I hate to be one of those people who doesn't understand how anybody could be undecided at this juncture, but it does seem remarkable that there are actually people out there who don't see this as the clear decision or have not been pain attention enough to at least have an inklaim of who they're going to vote for.

Mollie, can you describe the undecided voter today? Because I hate to be one of those people who doesn't understand how anybody could be undecided at this juncture, but it does seem remarkable that there are actually people out there who don't see this as the clear decision or have not been pain attention enough to at least have an inklaim of who they're going to vote for.

So it's a lot of people who don't follow politics right. And if you have, you know, if you're a working mom with kids and a very crazy full time job, and you maybe are a single mom and you just don't have time for television and you're you know what, maybe you're a nurse, or I join me in this fantasy of the nurse, single mom with all these kids and no time.

So it's a lot of people who don't follow politics right. And if you have, you know, if you're a working mom with kids and a very crazy full time job, and you maybe are a single mom and you just don't have time for television and you're you know what, maybe you're a nurse, or I join me in this fantasy of the nurse, single mom with all these kids and no time.

To read the newspaper.

To read the newspaper.

I mean, I think there are people who don't pay attention to politics or don't remember Trump is them, or people who are very affected by inflation and things being more expensive. And for them, they just see that even though everyone's telling the economy is good, they can't afford the number of groceries they could a year ago. Now it wouldn't be a year ago because inflation has actually gone down, but that would be my in my head. Those are the voters who the Trump is saying. And remember Trump is promising a lot of stuff. I mean, he basically just promises everything all the time. So you know, he went to Nevada and he promised no more taxes on tips. Now of course I mean more complicated. But and then he went to he went to Michigan yesterday in Detroit, he chat, he said terrible things about Detroit to Detroit. And then he also promised that he would make car loans tax deductible. Now, there is no world in which depreciating asset like a car should have a tax deductible loan. And you would have to grow the irs to do this. And the Republican Party is very mad at the irs and does not want to grow the irs. So but you know, if you're a voter who's taking in very little of this and you're very you know, you're pinched and you're mad and you're worried, I could see how you might. And remember historically people have thought Republicans were better in the economy. I don't know, that's my fantasy of what the the the borderline voter is.

I mean, I think there are people who don't pay attention to politics or don't remember Trump is them, or people who are very affected by inflation and things being more expensive. And for them, they just see that even though everyone's telling the economy is good, they can't afford the number of groceries they could a year ago. Now it wouldn't be a year ago because inflation has actually gone down, but that would be my in my head. Those are the voters who the Trump is saying. And remember Trump is promising a lot of stuff. I mean, he basically just promises everything all the time. So you know, he went to Nevada and he promised no more taxes on tips. Now of course I mean more complicated. But and then he went to he went to Michigan yesterday in Detroit, he chat, he said terrible things about Detroit to Detroit. And then he also promised that he would make car loans tax deductible. Now, there is no world in which depreciating asset like a car should have a tax deductible loan. And you would have to grow the irs to do this. And the Republican Party is very mad at the irs and does not want to grow the irs. So but you know, if you're a voter who's taking in very little of this and you're very you know, you're pinched and you're mad and you're worried, I could see how you might. And remember historically people have thought Republicans were better in the economy. I don't know, that's my fantasy of what the the the borderline voter is.

By the way, Kamala also supports no tax on tips, right. She followed She followed Trump's lead on that.

By the way, Kamala also supports no tax on tips, right. She followed She followed Trump's lead on that.

If you're someone that hears these Trump policies, which really has pointed out are kind of just fantasies. But if you hear him, you know, making these promises and you believe them to be true. If you're on the other side of that and try to go to this Trump voter and say, you know, everything he's promising is a lie, that's not an effective tool. I feel in changing their mind. They're going to say this is he's the man whose beliefs I idealize, and I think he is the best for me. So there's a smugness that I think some of the supporters of Kamala can have in sort of trying to educate these Trump voters by enlightening them. And so again I think it's really important in our tone and how we speak to those undecided or even those Trump voters, in helping them realize that what they've been promised is indeed a lie. But I think it's all about how we go about, you know, bursting that lie, because again, I think sometimes that can just cause those supporters to dig in their heels and say, well, you know, I'm going to double down on my belief system because I don't want to be I don't want this smug tone telling you that I'm wrong. Yeah, So I'm just curious what are your thoughts on sort of the viability of celebrity endorsements. Obviously, you know we have the big ticket ones, the Taylor Swift's, the Bruce Springsteen. But you know, as we saw, there's been a ton of interest around Child Arrowan for instance, and whether or not she was coming out in supporting Kabala. She eventually was, I would say it forced to come out and support of Kamala. When you think about this sort of pressure that's grown, this expectation that's especially young stars are expected to not only have their vote luck but also let their fans know who they're voting for and actually quote unquote endorse a candidate.