On this episode of News World.

On this episode of News World.

My guest today is former White House Press Secretary and very good friend Sean Spicer. These days, he's a very business person. He's just been appointed to the board for the US Naval Academy by President Trump. He's co host of the popular show The Morning Meeting along with Mark Alpern and Dan Turantine on the Two Way Platform. He hosts his own podcast, The Shawn Spicer Show, and he's just recently launched his sub stack. In fact, he's so in the man. I'm delighted that he would make the time just to join us. Shawn, thank you and once again joining me on News World. But I'm really grateful you take the time.

My guest today is former White House Press Secretary and very good friend Sean Spicer. These days, he's a very business person. He's just been appointed to the board for the US Naval Academy by President Trump. He's co host of the popular show The Morning Meeting along with Mark Alpern and Dan Turantine on the Two Way Platform. He hosts his own podcast, The Shawn Spicer Show, and he's just recently launched his sub stack. In fact, he's so in the man. I'm delighted that he would make the time just to join us. Shawn, thank you and once again joining me on News World. But I'm really grateful you take the time.

You ask I come. That's how it works.

You ask I come. That's how it works.

And by the way, congratulations on the President appointing you to the board of the Naval Academy. I mean that has got to be a really solid sense of something you've spent your whole lifetime doing to serve the country.

And by the way, congratulations on the President appointing you to the board of the Naval Academy. I mean that has got to be a really solid sense of something you've spent your whole lifetime doing to serve the country.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And there's obviously a bit of poetic justice in that I talked to the President about this the other night.

And there's obviously a bit of poetic justice in that I talked to the President about this the other night.

As people may recall, on the way out the.

As people may recall, on the way out the.

Door, it was funny when I left the White House they had asked, do you want to do anything, and I'd said, I'll serve on the board of the Naval Academy. There wasn't an opening at the time, so they put me on the White House Fellow's Commission. Eventually, one of the Obama people's term was up and they named me to a new term. And then when Biden came in, I resigned from the White House Commission on Fellows because that's what you do, it's a White House commission. And on September one, midday, I get a text or an email rather from the director of Personnel for the Biden White House and said, at six o'clock tonight, either you will resign or we will fire you from your term the Naval Academy. I said, no, you can fire me if you want. And then America First Legal, the outside group that Stephen Miller had found it, called me a couple of days later and said, would you be willing to put your name on a lawsuit saying that Biden didn't have the right to do that. Myself and Russ Vote, the current O and b director, were the only two people agreed to do that. And remember he fired everybody Naval Academy West Point Air Force So we filed this lawsuit.

Door, it was funny when I left the White House they had asked, do you want to do anything, and I'd said, I'll serve on the board of the Naval Academy. There wasn't an opening at the time, so they put me on the White House Fellow's Commission. Eventually, one of the Obama people's term was up and they named me to a new term. And then when Biden came in, I resigned from the White House Commission on Fellows because that's what you do, it's a White House commission. And on September one, midday, I get a text or an email rather from the director of Personnel for the Biden White House and said, at six o'clock tonight, either you will resign or we will fire you from your term the Naval Academy. I said, no, you can fire me if you want. And then America First Legal, the outside group that Stephen Miller had found it, called me a couple of days later and said, would you be willing to put your name on a lawsuit saying that Biden didn't have the right to do that. Myself and Russ Vote, the current O and b director, were the only two people agreed to do that. And remember he fired everybody Naval Academy West Point Air Force So we filed this lawsuit.

You'll love this because this is the best part about it.

You'll love this because this is the best part about it.

The media kept saying we were going to lose the lawsuit, and sure enough, we lost the lawsuit. And for those people listening on audio, I do that in air quotes because my term was going to end in fifty nine days.

The media kept saying we were going to lose the lawsuit, and sure enough, we lost the lawsuit. And for those people listening on audio, I do that in air quotes because my term was going to end in fifty nine days.

Now. I'm no legal scholar.

Now. I'm no legal scholar.

But I don't see the court adjudicating a lawsuit like that. In fifty nine days. We went up to the appeals process. The Biden administration continued to argue that they had every right to fire anyone they wanted, and the court affirmed that at the appeals level. So once again the media said, Spicer and Vote lost the lawsuit. Well, here's the bitter irony. When Donald Trump comes in, he just starts firing everyone.

But I don't see the court adjudicating a lawsuit like that. In fifty nine days. We went up to the appeals process. The Biden administration continued to argue that they had every right to fire anyone they wanted, and the court affirmed that at the appeals level. So once again the media said, Spicer and Vote lost the lawsuit. Well, here's the bitter irony. When Donald Trump comes in, he just starts firing everyone.

Now, this is what I.

Now, this is what I.

Love about the story. I get a call like five Fridays ago, and it's a Washington Post reporter and he says, mister Spicer, I wanted to know if you had any comment about the Kennedy Center. Why what do you mean? He said, Well, President Trump has fired everyone from the Kennedy Center. I said, okay, good for him, I'm glad he did it, and he said, have you not seen their response? And I said, you know, I follow a lot of people on Twitter, but I don't follow the spokesman for the Kennedy Center. And he said, oh, well, let me tell you. Then the spokesman said that they have no recourse because.

Love about the story. I get a call like five Fridays ago, and it's a Washington Post reporter and he says, mister Spicer, I wanted to know if you had any comment about the Kennedy Center. Why what do you mean? He said, Well, President Trump has fired everyone from the Kennedy Center. I said, okay, good for him, I'm glad he did it, and he said, have you not seen their response? And I said, you know, I follow a lot of people on Twitter, but I don't follow the spokesman for the Kennedy Center. And he said, oh, well, let me tell you. Then the spokesman said that they have no recourse because.

Of Spicer v. Biden.

Of Spicer v. Biden.

And now, look, as a guy whose legal experience spans watching all the versions of law and order, there was something kind of cool about literally being like, holy smokes, they're literally citing a case the Kennedy Center.

And now, look, as a guy whose legal experience spans watching all the versions of law and order, there was something kind of cool about literally being like, holy smokes, they're literally citing a case the Kennedy Center.

Folks.

Folks.

They wrote this subsequent Washington Post story a couple of days later that said, you know, why can.

They wrote this subsequent Washington Post story a couple of days later that said, you know, why can.

President Trump do what he's doing? Because of Spicer v. Biden.

President Trump do what he's doing? Because of Spicer v. Biden.

They keep trying to outdo Trump. They go after him to kick him off the ballot. At backfires, they fire all the people who were Trump supporters. And remember, just for context, I left this part out. Unfortunately, never before in the history of the United States has anyone from the Service Academy's been dismissed without cause, and even then couldn't find it. So when Biden did this, it was wholly unprecedented. So they created this mess. And when Trump goes around and fires everybody. Just remember, for all of you will want a little ammo to your leftist uncle or cousin. It was Spicer v Biden. Biden did this for the first time in history, firing people. And so if you want to blame somebody for what Trump is doing, blame Joe Biden.

They keep trying to outdo Trump. They go after him to kick him off the ballot. At backfires, they fire all the people who were Trump supporters. And remember, just for context, I left this part out. Unfortunately, never before in the history of the United States has anyone from the Service Academy's been dismissed without cause, and even then couldn't find it. So when Biden did this, it was wholly unprecedented. So they created this mess. And when Trump goes around and fires everybody. Just remember, for all of you will want a little ammo to your leftist uncle or cousin. It was Spicer v Biden. Biden did this for the first time in history, firing people. And so if you want to blame somebody for what Trump is doing, blame Joe Biden.

That's great. It's also a great personal story.

That's great. It's also a great personal story.

It's just fun because sometimes you know, when this lawsuit came about, I thought to myself, I was still serving in the military. It probably wasn't the smartest military officer move in the world to put your name. Now, granted I was a civilian, so just to be clear, people in the military still talk and they see it. But at the end of the day, I did it because it was the right thing to do. What he did was wrong, and obviously it was really bittersweet when the President called me a couple of weeks ago and said, hey, I'm reconstituting this.

It's just fun because sometimes you know, when this lawsuit came about, I thought to myself, I was still serving in the military. It probably wasn't the smartest military officer move in the world to put your name. Now, granted I was a civilian, so just to be clear, people in the military still talk and they see it. But at the end of the day, I did it because it was the right thing to do. What he did was wrong, and obviously it was really bittersweet when the President called me a couple of weeks ago and said, hey, I'm reconstituting this.

I'm honored to put you back on.

I'm honored to put you back on.

And you look at the names that are on there, right Congressman Derrick Van Orden, Navy c Ronnie Jackson, congressman from Texas, who's his physician, one star admiral, and then it's like enshawan Spicer, but.

And you look at the names that are on there, right Congressman Derrick Van Orden, Navy c Ronnie Jackson, congressman from Texas, who's his physician, one star admiral, and then it's like enshawan Spicer, but.

Talk for them about your own military service. I mean it's not like you will wander to end from the road.

Talk for them about your own military service. I mean it's not like you will wander to end from the road.

Reyquift.

Reyquift.

Yeah, I've served twenty six years and the Navy, but a CEO and an officer in charge depending on you know, the unit. I graduated the US Naval War College, have a master's in Strategic and National Study. So I mean I've served for over twenty six years commanded some pretty decent sized units. Have a nice little salad on my chest of awards that I've been honored to receive, So I've done my time. But you know, there's a lot of stiff competition for boards like this in terms of graduates who have gone on and done great things, who have served the country and obviously want to go back to the alma made. I didn't graduate from the academy. I graduated from the War College.

Yeah, I've served twenty six years and the Navy, but a CEO and an officer in charge depending on you know, the unit. I graduated the US Naval War College, have a master's in Strategic and National Study. So I mean I've served for over twenty six years commanded some pretty decent sized units. Have a nice little salad on my chest of awards that I've been honored to receive, So I've done my time. But you know, there's a lot of stiff competition for boards like this in terms of graduates who have gone on and done great things, who have served the country and obviously want to go back to the alma made. I didn't graduate from the academy. I graduated from the War College.

But it's a huge honor.

But it's a huge honor.

I know how many people ask the President to be nominated, and I greatly appreciate him reappointing me to that position.

I know how many people ask the President to be nominated, and I greatly appreciate him reappointing me to that position.

I'm curious because you've got a unique perspective having been in the world White House, and I remember a time seeing you when I would visit and you'd be in the middle trying to get ready for the press score. What do you think about the level of change that Caroline Levitt has brought to bear on the White House Press score?

I'm curious because you've got a unique perspective having been in the world White House, and I remember a time seeing you when I would visit and you'd be in the middle trying to get ready for the press score. What do you think about the level of change that Caroline Levitt has brought to bear on the White House Press score?

Absolutely phenomenal.

Absolutely phenomenal.

There's a few things, one like I told the President this, by the way, the other day, I said, Man, I'm sure whatever decision making process you went through to pick her, it was well worth it, because she has done a phenomenal job. She has a ton of poise in leadership at the podium, commands attention, really has a command of the issues as well, And so I think she's doing a phenomenal job.

There's a few things, one like I told the President this, by the way, the other day, I said, Man, I'm sure whatever decision making process you went through to pick her, it was well worth it, because she has done a phenomenal job. She has a ton of poise in leadership at the podium, commands attention, really has a command of the issues as well, And so I think she's doing a phenomenal job.

But to go in and shake it up.

But to go in and shake it up.

Remember when I was White House Press sar, I brought in skype, so I allowed reporters from around the country that couldn't be in DC to ask questions on the screen. And that time they went nuts. They said, this is unprecedented, ridiculous. And my point was I wanted ideas issues like I got asked about water rights and federal land use and issues that would never come up in the briefing because all they cared about was Michael Flynn in Russia. The point was I wanted a to do that to give local reporters an opportunity, but be also to infect the briefing room with issues that real Americans care about that might not make it to Washington. And what Caroline has done by bringing in more new voices is absolutely phenomenal and well timed. And then the idea of also shaking up the White House pool. What people don't understand is that the White House establishment left wing legacy wants to control what you see, read, and hear every day, and so they do these pool reports, which means the Oval Office or Air Force One are obviously small areas. So they choose thirteen people and there's a print reporter, a radio person, a TV person, a wire person. They go in, they capture what the President says or does through their lens and then report back out to their other thousands of colleagues. This is what happened, right, So they decide what's important. They add color, right, so the president was doing this, this is what happened. They decide what the mood was. It was tense, it was I mean, whatever it is, and then they tell everyone, So if I get to be the arbiter of what you see, read, and here.

Remember when I was White House Press sar, I brought in skype, so I allowed reporters from around the country that couldn't be in DC to ask questions on the screen. And that time they went nuts. They said, this is unprecedented, ridiculous. And my point was I wanted ideas issues like I got asked about water rights and federal land use and issues that would never come up in the briefing because all they cared about was Michael Flynn in Russia. The point was I wanted a to do that to give local reporters an opportunity, but be also to infect the briefing room with issues that real Americans care about that might not make it to Washington. And what Caroline has done by bringing in more new voices is absolutely phenomenal and well timed. And then the idea of also shaking up the White House pool. What people don't understand is that the White House establishment left wing legacy wants to control what you see, read, and hear every day, and so they do these pool reports, which means the Oval Office or Air Force One are obviously small areas. So they choose thirteen people and there's a print reporter, a radio person, a TV person, a wire person. They go in, they capture what the President says or does through their lens and then report back out to their other thousands of colleagues. This is what happened, right, So they decide what's important. They add color, right, so the president was doing this, this is what happened. They decide what the mood was. It was tense, it was I mean, whatever it is, and then they tell everyone, So if I get to be the arbiter of what you see, read, and here.

Then I control the narrative.

Then I control the narrative.

And what Caroline has done is open that aperture up, allow more voices to go in and be part of the pool.

And what Caroline has done is open that aperture up, allow more voices to go in and be part of the pool.

So not cut it back, just to be clear, actually grown it.

So not cut it back, just to be clear, actually grown it.

So now you have the same New York Times in Washington Post, but you've got an additional person. It's almost like an additional witness to a crime scene. Now they get to hold them accountable and say, actually, the President was jovial, he was excited, he was bouncing off the walls to announce this program. But there's now a degree of accountability that there hasn't been in the past. If I can, I want to tell you one really interesting inside baseball story because this shows you the power of the White House correspondence. When we won in twenty sixteen, there's a group of us that met with them in New York at Trump Tower and they said to us, here's how the briefings work. You will get up, you will give your opening statements, you know, the President's schedule, whatever you want to say, and then you will start by calling on Thissociated Press, the front row, who they decide who sits where it's the wires, the Associated Press routers, the New York Times, NBCABC, and then it kind of works backwards, and they said, you will call on the Associated Press first, and then you will go down the first row, the NBC's the Washington Post. And then if there's time, you can entertain the low life folks in the back of the room, bring them into the conversation.

So now you have the same New York Times in Washington Post, but you've got an additional person. It's almost like an additional witness to a crime scene. Now they get to hold them accountable and say, actually, the President was jovial, he was excited, he was bouncing off the walls to announce this program. But there's now a degree of accountability that there hasn't been in the past. If I can, I want to tell you one really interesting inside baseball story because this shows you the power of the White House correspondence. When we won in twenty sixteen, there's a group of us that met with them in New York at Trump Tower and they said to us, here's how the briefings work. You will get up, you will give your opening statements, you know, the President's schedule, whatever you want to say, and then you will start by calling on Thissociated Press, the front row, who they decide who sits where it's the wires, the Associated Press routers, the New York Times, NBCABC, and then it kind of works backwards, and they said, you will call on the Associated Press first, and then you will go down the first row, the NBC's the Washington Post. And then if there's time, you can entertain the low life folks in the back of the room, bring them into the conversation.

And after you've gone on for said amount of time, the.

And after you've gone on for said amount of time, the.

Associated Press reporter who's sitting in that seat will say thank you very much. That signals the end of your briefing. I said, okay, thank you. So the first briefing I held on that Monday, the first person I called on was Daniel Halper, New York Post. Now I know to most people in America, they didn't care, they didn't notice what I did. And the faces on the folks in the front row was unbelievable. And then I went on and on and on, and at forty five minutes in Julie Pace of the Associated Press looked up and said thank you very much, signaling what they thought was the end of my briefing.

Associated Press reporter who's sitting in that seat will say thank you very much. That signals the end of your briefing. I said, okay, thank you. So the first briefing I held on that Monday, the first person I called on was Daniel Halper, New York Post. Now I know to most people in America, they didn't care, they didn't notice what I did. And the faces on the folks in the front row was unbelievable. And then I went on and on and on, and at forty five minutes in Julie Pace of the Associated Press looked up and said thank you very much, signaling what they thought was the end of my briefing.

I look down and I said, no, thank you, Julie. I'll go on.

I look down and I said, no, thank you, Julie. I'll go on.

I'll tell you when my briefing's over, and I went on for another forty five minutes. And the goal there was to signal to them that you're not in charge. This is a government broom. This is a government briefing. We'll decide when it's over, not you. Donald Trump's in charge now. And I think that Caroline has really, in her own way, brought a stamp to that room to make it very clear in a different way several years later, that she's in charge, that the Trump Administration's going to lead this agenda, not them, And I think it's phenomenal.

I'll tell you when my briefing's over, and I went on for another forty five minutes. And the goal there was to signal to them that you're not in charge. This is a government broom. This is a government briefing. We'll decide when it's over, not you. Donald Trump's in charge now. And I think that Caroline has really, in her own way, brought a stamp to that room to make it very clear in a different way several years later, that she's in charge, that the Trump Administration's going to lead this agenda, not them, And I think it's phenomenal.

I went by the other dan.

I went by the other dan.

She said, if I want to come in sometime, I can occupy the seat of the unusual member and ask a question.

She said, if I want to come in sometime, I can occupy the seat of the unusual member and ask a question.

I said, do I have to tell you know what? Event said?

I said, do I have to tell you know what? Event said?

Now you show up, we'll get you a seat. But at her age, her confidence is unbelievable.

Now you show up, we'll get you a seat. But at her age, her confidence is unbelievable.

And it's funny you say that, because obviously we have had a lot of great entrepreneurs in this country. You've done fantastic things at young age. If we're going to be honest about this, like at twenty seven, are you kidding me?

And it's funny you say that, because obviously we have had a lot of great entrepreneurs in this country. You've done fantastic things at young age. If we're going to be honest about this, like at twenty seven, are you kidding me?

I could not have held my own in that.

I could not have held my own in that.

I was a comms director on Capitol Hill under your tutelage when you were speaker working for a rank and file member. I mean, I couldn't have had the poise and the command of issues that she has at that level.

I was a comms director on Capitol Hill under your tutelage when you were speaker working for a rank and file member. I mean, I couldn't have had the poise and the command of issues that she has at that level.

I don't know that I could have done it at thirty seven.

I don't know that I could have done it at thirty seven.

She's remarkable.

She's remarkable.

Yeah, and it just speaks what a bright future.

Yeah, and it just speaks what a bright future.

I'm very impressed that every morning you guys are doing this two way and you find interesting things to talk about.

I'm very impressed that every morning you guys are doing this two way and you find interesting things to talk about.

You managed to maintain a balance and it's very cordial.

You managed to maintain a balance and it's very cordial.

What makes it unique streams on my YouTube channel and if people want to watch, and it's live. We take questions from anyone in the world. We gotten questions from France and China. The difference between the morning meeting and a lot of shows is that we're not trying to win you over. So when you go on cable, it's a six or seven minute cable hit. I want to beat up on the opponent. I want to tell him why I'm right. Donald Trump is doing better. You guys are bad blah blah blah. Dan and I Dan being the Democrat, he worked for Hillary Clinton. He's got a ton of stature, a ton of time and grade. Is that we're explaining the process. I'm not trying to win over people if you like Donald Trump, Moore, or the Republican Party or the conservative movement more. I'm excited. I hope that I do that well. But my goal is to explain why things are happening. This is the mentality, This is the decision making process, so that people have a better understanding of their government and the process by which decisions are made, and maybe how to influence them. So as you know, it's not schoolhouse rock, and people need to know. This is really how government works, how decisions are made, how politicians think.

What makes it unique streams on my YouTube channel and if people want to watch, and it's live. We take questions from anyone in the world. We gotten questions from France and China. The difference between the morning meeting and a lot of shows is that we're not trying to win you over. So when you go on cable, it's a six or seven minute cable hit. I want to beat up on the opponent. I want to tell him why I'm right. Donald Trump is doing better. You guys are bad blah blah blah. Dan and I Dan being the Democrat, he worked for Hillary Clinton. He's got a ton of stature, a ton of time and grade. Is that we're explaining the process. I'm not trying to win over people if you like Donald Trump, Moore, or the Republican Party or the conservative movement more. I'm excited. I hope that I do that well. But my goal is to explain why things are happening. This is the mentality, This is the decision making process, so that people have a better understanding of their government and the process by which decisions are made, and maybe how to influence them. So as you know, it's not schoolhouse rock, and people need to know. This is really how government works, how decisions are made, how politicians think.

And I think we add an element.

And I think we add an element.

To the discussion that just doesn't exist in the ecosystem anymore.

To the discussion that just doesn't exist in the ecosystem anymore.

Orever, and I have to say, I find Halprin to be so widely network that his morning newsletter is one of the first things I read every day.

Orever, and I have to say, I find Halprin to be so widely network that his morning newsletter is one of the first things I read every day.

Well, people trust Mark to tell them things.

Well, people trust Mark to tell them things.

I joked with Mark at one point, like I spent several hours in front of the Mueller Commission or whatever the heck it's actually called, and I was always impressed by how they would look and say, you know, on February third, you were in a meeting. There were four people there someone exited from the right hand side.

I joked with Mark at one point, like I spent several hours in front of the Mueller Commission or whatever the heck it's actually called, and I was always impressed by how they would look and say, you know, on February third, you were in a meeting. There were four people there someone exited from the right hand side.

I mean, I'm like, holy smokes, it's.

I mean, I'm like, holy smokes, it's.

Like big brother. When halbrind interviews you for you know, his books or whatever. He doesn't come to just ask. He comes with his a game and he's like, look, when you were in this meeting, you coughed a few times and then you made an utterance. And he's so well sourced because people trust him that he's not going to reveal sources and that he's going to try to get the story straight. And that's very different from so many of the folks that like Politico or axios, who are just looking for clickbait.

Like big brother. When halbrind interviews you for you know, his books or whatever. He doesn't come to just ask. He comes with his a game and he's like, look, when you were in this meeting, you coughed a few times and then you made an utterance. And he's so well sourced because people trust him that he's not going to reveal sources and that he's going to try to get the story straight. And that's very different from so many of the folks that like Politico or axios, who are just looking for clickbait.

You inventioned working in the house when I was a speaker. Do you share my sense though? What Mike Johnson's pulling off with virtually no margin is on imaginable.

You inventioned working in the house when I was a speaker. Do you share my sense though? What Mike Johnson's pulling off with virtually no margin is on imaginable.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We do a thing on the morning meeting where we pick winners and losers, and all three of us, including Dan the Democrat, so that the winner was Mike Johnson because you know this, it's hurting cats to begin with what he's been able to pull off without ear marks. And I mean, you remember the delay days, it was sort of like how much for your vote? That's obviously an extreme, but there are a lot more tools at the disposal. Politically now, it's not that way, and so he's really instilling a sense of team that didn't exist. And that's the big difference is that people are like, I get it. Tom Massey, even who's voting against these things, isn't doing it out of spite.

We do a thing on the morning meeting where we pick winners and losers, and all three of us, including Dan the Democrat, so that the winner was Mike Johnson because you know this, it's hurting cats to begin with what he's been able to pull off without ear marks. And I mean, you remember the delay days, it was sort of like how much for your vote? That's obviously an extreme, but there are a lot more tools at the disposal. Politically now, it's not that way, and so he's really instilling a sense of team that didn't exist. And that's the big difference is that people are like, I get it. Tom Massey, even who's voting against these things, isn't doing it out of spite.

He's not mad at anybody. He's not. He philosophically disagrees with the vision of government, which to some degree I respect.

He's not mad at anybody. He's not. He philosophically disagrees with the vision of government, which to some degree I respect.

He's not doing this because he doesn't like Donald Trump or he's mad at Mike Johnson. He's, you know, a principal guy that sees things differently. I don't agree with him entirely, but I'm just saying I don't think that he's doing this for some kind of political gain. He's weathered the primaries before, and again I don't agree with necessarily what he's doing, but it speaks to Johnson that he's able to keep all these people together without a bunch of carrots and sticks and browbeating them, etc. And I think the other point that I would make where it's going to benefit him is look at the Democrats where they are.

He's not doing this because he doesn't like Donald Trump or he's mad at Mike Johnson. He's, you know, a principal guy that sees things differently. I don't agree with him entirely, but I'm just saying I don't think that he's doing this for some kind of political gain. He's weathered the primaries before, and again I don't agree with necessarily what he's doing, but it speaks to Johnson that he's able to keep all these people together without a bunch of carrots and sticks and browbeating them, etc. And I think the other point that I would make where it's going to benefit him is look at the Democrats where they are.

They are in utter, utter disarray.

They are in utter, utter disarray.

And when you talk about the Republican conference, the idea that Johnson can go to them now and say, guys, we stuck together.

And when you talk about the Republican conference, the idea that Johnson can go to them now and say, guys, we stuck together.

We were a team. And look at these jokers.

We were a team. And look at these jokers.

They're off making paddles at Arts and Crafts Time, and then they're mocking Schumer openly.

They're off making paddles at Arts and Crafts Time, and then they're mocking Schumer openly.

I mean, this is not a party that has his act together. It's really rudderless.

I mean, this is not a party that has his act together. It's really rudderless.

Plus I were sitting actually on Johnson's box for the President's addressed to the Congress, so we're directly above the Democrats. They couldn't applaud Trump. They couldn't apploud a thirteen year old cancer survivor. They couldn't applaud mothers and survivors. And you're getting the same thing right now. I mean they lockstep, vote, no, get beaten.

Plus I were sitting actually on Johnson's box for the President's addressed to the Congress, so we're directly above the Democrats. They couldn't applaud Trump. They couldn't apploud a thirteen year old cancer survivor. They couldn't applaud mothers and survivors. And you're getting the same thing right now. I mean they lockstep, vote, no, get beaten.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And here's the thing is that you know good begets good. If you're Johnson, you look at them and say, guys, we stuck together, and look at what they did, like it's pathetic.

And here's the thing is that you know good begets good. If you're Johnson, you look at them and say, guys, we stuck together, and look at what they did, like it's pathetic.

Dick Martlin called me one time about nineteen eighty three. He was Reagan's chief polster, and he said, the most important thing is winning, because a president who wins is seen as strong, and therefore it's easier to win the next one because he's seen as strong and there was a lot to that. I mean, I didn't fully appreciate at the time because we were fighting over Texas, but they did win. And I think Trump has a similar knack, And in his case, I think he has ironically vastly more intense prestige than Reagan did. He doesn't have as broad a prestige. The loyalty to Trump among those who like him is astonishingly deep.

Dick Martlin called me one time about nineteen eighty three. He was Reagan's chief polster, and he said, the most important thing is winning, because a president who wins is seen as strong, and therefore it's easier to win the next one because he's seen as strong and there was a lot to that. I mean, I didn't fully appreciate at the time because we were fighting over Texas, but they did win. And I think Trump has a similar knack, And in his case, I think he has ironically vastly more intense prestige than Reagan did. He doesn't have as broad a prestige. The loyalty to Trump among those who like him is astonishingly deep.

The thing that I keep saying.

The thing that I keep saying.

I gave a speech earlier this week and I said, because of four years out of office, I think Trump's going to be the most consequential second term president probably ever, definitely in modern history, because the opportunity when you have one term, you just keep rolling over. If you're the Press secretary on January twentieth, you're the pres secretary on the twenty first, and on the twenty second and.

I gave a speech earlier this week and I said, because of four years out of office, I think Trump's going to be the most consequential second term president probably ever, definitely in modern history, because the opportunity when you have one term, you just keep rolling over. If you're the Press secretary on January twentieth, you're the pres secretary on the twenty first, and on the twenty second and.

Twenty third, and when you have ability to.

Twenty third, and when you have ability to.

Stop and think about what I call the three p's, the people, the process, and the policies, and you go, Okay, if I get to do it again, what am I going to do? Who are the people I'm going to surround myself? With and keep away to what are the policies that I'm going to advance and not and then the process, what do I have to do to make sure I get my policies through. Who are going to be the opposition forces, who are going to be my friends? What are the obstacles that we're going to face? And because of that, they have come out of the gate just killing it. And this is the difference is that you think back eight years ago, we didn't have a team in the house. Mark Meadows led the opposition to the repeal of Obamacare, and you had people who subsequently came onto the team and didn't do it for battery. It just didn't think it was the right decision. But like now, to your point, Speaker, Johnson's got everybody on board. I mean Andy Harris, the congressman from Maryland who's the chair of the Freedom Caucus, is publicly saying, hey, I've never voted for a debt ceiling increase.

Stop and think about what I call the three p's, the people, the process, and the policies, and you go, Okay, if I get to do it again, what am I going to do? Who are the people I'm going to surround myself? With and keep away to what are the policies that I'm going to advance and not and then the process, what do I have to do to make sure I get my policies through. Who are going to be the opposition forces, who are going to be my friends? What are the obstacles that we're going to face? And because of that, they have come out of the gate just killing it. And this is the difference is that you think back eight years ago, we didn't have a team in the house. Mark Meadows led the opposition to the repeal of Obamacare, and you had people who subsequently came onto the team and didn't do it for battery. It just didn't think it was the right decision. But like now, to your point, Speaker, Johnson's got everybody on board. I mean Andy Harris, the congressman from Maryland who's the chair of the Freedom Caucus, is publicly saying, hey, I've never voted for a debt ceiling increase.

I've never voted for a cr but I'm willing to do it now.

I've never voted for a cr but I'm willing to do it now.

They believe in the vision they're bought in, and I think this is just absolutely spectacular.

They believe in the vision they're bought in, and I think this is just absolutely spectacular.

If Trump can sustain this and if he can win the twenty sixth election in the House. I think he will go on to be just below Washington and Lincoln's probably rivaling FDR as the third most consequential president in American history. And he will have changed the government at a level that it would have been unthinkable prior to Trump.

If Trump can sustain this and if he can win the twenty sixth election in the House. I think he will go on to be just below Washington and Lincoln's probably rivaling FDR as the third most consequential president in American history. And he will have changed the government at a level that it would have been unthinkable prior to Trump.

But you know what's the funny. I fight this like on a daily basis. Trump is willing to have fights that people haven't been willing to have, like this effort to root out government. And you know this, I mean the Grace Commission Reinventing Government, Sarveins Oxley, and we talk about it over and over again, and now it's happening. I just get so excited because we have allowed the excuses, and sometimes for the right reasons, because he didn't have the alignment of the parties.

But you know what's the funny. I fight this like on a daily basis. Trump is willing to have fights that people haven't been willing to have, like this effort to root out government. And you know this, I mean the Grace Commission Reinventing Government, Sarveins Oxley, and we talk about it over and over again, and now it's happening. I just get so excited because we have allowed the excuses, and sometimes for the right reasons, because he didn't have the alignment of the parties.

It's not entirely because of lack of will.

It's not entirely because of lack of will.

But this time we've got a partner that's willing to go out there and fight the fights in a way that just hasn't existed in the past.

But this time we've got a partner that's willing to go out there and fight the fights in a way that just hasn't existed in the past.

Part of it is that he grew up in New York real estate where people were very tough and they fought all the time. If you've read the art of the Comeback, which is I think his most important book. As he explains it, he almost went broke and as the greatest opening it says, I was nine hundred million dollars in debt to the banks personally, Atlantic City was ceasing to be profitable, the Iraq campaign was leading to inflation, and my wife just called to say she wanted a divorce. He said, this is the moment when you either get depressed or you plan a comeback.

Part of it is that he grew up in New York real estate where people were very tough and they fought all the time. If you've read the art of the Comeback, which is I think his most important book. As he explains it, he almost went broke and as the greatest opening it says, I was nine hundred million dollars in debt to the banks personally, Atlantic City was ceasing to be profitable, the Iraq campaign was leading to inflation, and my wife just called to say she wanted a divorce. He said, this is the moment when you either get depressed or you plan a comeback.

I've got the Art of the Deal. I've done that. But you're right.

I've got the Art of the Deal. I've done that. But you're right.

The Art of the Deal is very helpful in understanding his mindset. If you watch him, for example, we Ukraine and Russia. It's straight out of the Art of the Deal. You know.

The Art of the Deal is very helpful in understanding his mindset. If you watch him, for example, we Ukraine and Russia. It's straight out of the Art of the Deal. You know.

It's funny though, just from a strategic standpoint that I find hysterical. And I think you were the one who said it a long time ago to me, and so I'm just just to be clear, I'm stealing it, although as I've learned the second time that you use it, you don't have to attribute.

It's funny though, just from a strategic standpoint that I find hysterical. And I think you were the one who said it a long time ago to me, and so I'm just just to be clear, I'm stealing it, although as I've learned the second time that you use it, you don't have to attribute.

It once you as Sean Spicer said.

It once you as Sean Spicer said.

Yeah, exactly, thank you. But I think that one of the things that's interesting is that so much is.

Yeah, exactly, thank you. But I think that one of the things that's interesting is that so much is.

There in public meaning the book is there, the art of the deal is there, the art of the compact, you're there, go read it. And so many times when people are talking to me, I'll say, not long ago, new Gingert said, you know, it's all there and the art of the deal, and yet people just don't want to read it. And I'm like, it's like the playbook is staring you in front of the face. The map is there, and you don't want to look at it.

There in public meaning the book is there, the art of the deal is there, the art of the compact, you're there, go read it. And so many times when people are talking to me, I'll say, not long ago, new Gingert said, you know, it's all there and the art of the deal, and yet people just don't want to read it. And I'm like, it's like the playbook is staring you in front of the face. The map is there, and you don't want to look at it.

Part of it is they can't believe somebody is actually like this. This is a guy who has survived recessions economically. I mean, he understands all this stuff, probably as well as any president of American history. But in addition, I must say I just read jd. Vance's speech explaining the tariffs. It is the best most coherent explanation I've seen so far, and it's pretty straightforward. They want manufacturing in the United States period.

Part of it is they can't believe somebody is actually like this. This is a guy who has survived recessions economically. I mean, he understands all this stuff, probably as well as any president of American history. But in addition, I must say I just read jd. Vance's speech explaining the tariffs. It is the best most coherent explanation I've seen so far, and it's pretty straightforward. They want manufacturing in the United States period.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean this again goes back to this whole idea. I was talking about this in the morning meeting this morning. At some point, the easy political thing, the absolutely easiest, is Trump just to kick it down the road, to say you're right, let's just let Canada keep high tariffs.

I mean this again goes back to this whole idea. I was talking about this in the morning meeting this morning. At some point, the easy political thing, the absolutely easiest, is Trump just to kick it down the road, to say you're right, let's just let Canada keep high tariffs.

Let's let Europe keep high teriffs.

Let's let Europe keep high teriffs.

Let's just keep doing business that way so that US companies don't have the same market access that they do to our market.

Let's just keep doing business that way so that US companies don't have the same market access that they do to our market.

That's the easy political answer.

That's the easy political answer.

The hard answer is to actually do something that will result in a long term beneficial result for the United States. Bring more jobs back, bring more manufacturing back. We're dismissing the fact that Taiwan Semiconductor Apple Pondas moving the civic from Mexico to Indiana.

The hard answer is to actually do something that will result in a long term beneficial result for the United States. Bring more jobs back, bring more manufacturing back. We're dismissing the fact that Taiwan Semiconductor Apple Pondas moving the civic from Mexico to Indiana.

This didn't just happen, and I don't think.

This didn't just happen, and I don't think.

That people fully a pre that like, yes, it might not happen tomorrow, and if it was easy, you would just snap your fingers and say move back, drop your terriffs. But he's right that there's not just one potential outcome. India can drop its terrorists, Canada can take its dairy tariff down and let us milk flow in a lot easier.

That people fully a pre that like, yes, it might not happen tomorrow, and if it was easy, you would just snap your fingers and say move back, drop your terriffs. But he's right that there's not just one potential outcome. India can drop its terrorists, Canada can take its dairy tariff down and let us milk flow in a lot easier.

There's two sides to this coin.

There's two sides to this coin.

This is a guy who for thirteen years had a popular TV show, the essence of which was You're fired. The personality that's able to pull that off for thirteen straight years. The idea that they're going to bluff him, I mean he knows he's the biggest market in the world. He knows they need him, he doesn't need them. His comment about the Europeans went after American whiskey, so he went after European wines and champagne and made the comment, this is going to be great for American winemakers, of which, by the way, he's won.

This is a guy who for thirteen years had a popular TV show, the essence of which was You're fired. The personality that's able to pull that off for thirteen straight years. The idea that they're going to bluff him, I mean he knows he's the biggest market in the world. He knows they need him, he doesn't need them. His comment about the Europeans went after American whiskey, so he went after European wines and champagne and made the comment, this is going to be great for American winemakers, of which, by the way, he's won.

That didn't get lost to me either. I'm like, I believe you own one of those.

That didn't get lost to me either. I'm like, I believe you own one of those.

I'm particularly watching Putin and to a lesser sensujianping, because Trump actually doesn't bluff.

I'm particularly watching Putin and to a lesser sensujianping, because Trump actually doesn't bluff.

No, no, he scares the crap out of him.

No, no, he scares the crap out of him.

And at some point, my guess is in the very near future, Putin is going to decide that he announced today that he really wants to get to a ceasefire. Of course, he's setting terms that are crazy, but again, in the tradition of New York real estate, that's where the deal starts. Do you tell me you're insane demand, I'll tell you my insane demand, and eventually we'll get around to a deal. But he has got Putin now talking about having a truce.

And at some point, my guess is in the very near future, Putin is going to decide that he announced today that he really wants to get to a ceasefire. Of course, he's setting terms that are crazy, but again, in the tradition of New York real estate, that's where the deal starts. Do you tell me you're insane demand, I'll tell you my insane demand, and eventually we'll get around to a deal. But he has got Putin now talking about having a truce.

Here's the beautiful thing about this. A week ago, everyone goes, why is he doing it? In the way that he's doing it, and da da, da da, and everyone wants to focus on the process and the noise who's sitting, where as opposed to the outcome. In a week from now, we are sitting with a ceasefire hopefully more than that.

Here's the beautiful thing about this. A week ago, everyone goes, why is he doing it? In the way that he's doing it, and da da, da da, and everyone wants to focus on the process and the noise who's sitting, where as opposed to the outcome. In a week from now, we are sitting with a ceasefire hopefully more than that.

Isn't that a good thing?

Isn't that a good thing?

That people are not dying, that destruction is not continuing, And yet it's Yeah, but you guys realize where Mike Walt sat. He's supposed to sit in the seat that's four over, not three over. And that's not the tradition in the norm of how things are supposed to work well, how things are supposed to work hasn't worked out so well. So maybe we try it his way and actually get something out of it.

That people are not dying, that destruction is not continuing, And yet it's Yeah, but you guys realize where Mike Walt sat. He's supposed to sit in the seat that's four over, not three over. And that's not the tradition in the norm of how things are supposed to work well, how things are supposed to work hasn't worked out so well. So maybe we try it his way and actually get something out of it.

My biggest concern is the twenty sixth election, and my biggest concern there is getting the tax cuts and the deregulation through early enough, hopefully by May June at the latest, so that they can take effect so the economy is booming by next summer. What's your sense, particularly in trying to deal with the Senate, which has very deep resistant and Johnson's on board and also understands that passing one really big bill is a lot easier with his margin than trying to pass two. But in addition that there's a time problem. Do you think in the end the Senate will go along or what do you think is happening?

My biggest concern is the twenty sixth election, and my biggest concern there is getting the tax cuts and the deregulation through early enough, hopefully by May June at the latest, so that they can take effect so the economy is booming by next summer. What's your sense, particularly in trying to deal with the Senate, which has very deep resistant and Johnson's on board and also understands that passing one really big bill is a lot easier with his margin than trying to pass two. But in addition that there's a time problem. Do you think in the end the Senate will go along or what do you think is happening?

Look, I think this week is sort of like the trailer to the movie that's coming. Everybody got on board, they understand, and it's for a variety of reasons. Once to your point earlier about winning gets people excited, they go, let's win two. There's a bit of political scare. Part of the reason they screwed with Massy is not because they thought they could beat them in the primary. That was a tell to everyone else stay in line, or we're coming after you. And it's not just the primary. And that's where some of the media gets it wrong. You don't want to walk down the street in Louisiana or South Dakota or wherever and having all these people be like you sold us out. It's not just about the election. It's about actually living and I think that's important. The second thing that I will tell you I did my first race in nineteen ninety four with you in the contract with America and Connecticut second District. I have never seen a political operation like they're building right now and they get it, which is, yes, we're not running for reelection, but we need to maintain the House and therefore the amount of money and political mechanics that is going into having the apparatus to defend and grow a House majority. I think the Senate's going to be fine, not fine, but I think we'll actually pick up seats. I think that it is historic and monumental, and no one is seeing this coming. The Democrats are depressed, they're not excited. And not only are they putting up points on the board on the House side, but they are building the political apparatus financially and otherwise to be able to defend and grow the House majority.

Look, I think this week is sort of like the trailer to the movie that's coming. Everybody got on board, they understand, and it's for a variety of reasons. Once to your point earlier about winning gets people excited, they go, let's win two. There's a bit of political scare. Part of the reason they screwed with Massy is not because they thought they could beat them in the primary. That was a tell to everyone else stay in line, or we're coming after you. And it's not just the primary. And that's where some of the media gets it wrong. You don't want to walk down the street in Louisiana or South Dakota or wherever and having all these people be like you sold us out. It's not just about the election. It's about actually living and I think that's important. The second thing that I will tell you I did my first race in nineteen ninety four with you in the contract with America and Connecticut second District. I have never seen a political operation like they're building right now and they get it, which is, yes, we're not running for reelection, but we need to maintain the House and therefore the amount of money and political mechanics that is going into having the apparatus to defend and grow a House majority. I think the Senate's going to be fine, not fine, but I think we'll actually pick up seats. I think that it is historic and monumental, and no one is seeing this coming. The Democrats are depressed, they're not excited. And not only are they putting up points on the board on the House side, but they are building the political apparatus financially and otherwise to be able to defend and grow the House majority.

Well, and you'll be able to watch Senate Democrats retire. They're creating vulnerabilities, whether it's.

Well, and you'll be able to watch Senate Democrats retire. They're creating vulnerabilities, whether it's.

Shaheen or Michigan.

Shaheen or Michigan.

I think you're gonna have a great race in Georgia, especially if Kemp jumps in.

I think you're gonna have a great race in Georgia, especially if Kemp jumps in.

I don't know that he will or not, but they need to defend the Dems.

I don't know that he will or not, but they need to defend the Dems.

You got Shaheen in New Hampshire, you got the Michigan seat, and now you've got a seat in Georgia.

You got Shaheen in New Hampshire, you got the Michigan seat, and now you've got a seat in Georgia.

Assofs in cycle.

Assofs in cycle.

Look, I think Republicans are in great shape in the Senate to probably grow maybe by one or two seats, and then in the House, as long as they have points on the board and a lot of money, they're going to do.

Look, I think Republicans are in great shape in the Senate to probably grow maybe by one or two seats, and then in the House, as long as they have points on the board and a lot of money, they're going to do.

Okay, I understand you're talking with Caroline Lovett, the CURL White House Press Secretary on Friday on your show. Why don't we listen to a clip?

Okay, I understand you're talking with Caroline Lovett, the CURL White House Press Secretary on Friday on your show. Why don't we listen to a clip?

You know, most people don't care or know about the White House Correspondent Association. They've had a stranglehold on the White House briefing room for decades. You and your team decided to take it on. So explain why you did that and why it matters.

You know, most people don't care or know about the White House Correspondent Association. They've had a stranglehold on the White House briefing room for decades. You and your team decided to take it on. So explain why you did that and why it matters.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, as you know, the White House Correspondence Association is truly become a monetized monopoly over the White House and the coverage of the President of the United States in America. This is a group of journalists who have been covering the White House for decades. They started this organization because the presidents at the time were not doing enough press conferences. I don't think we have that problem anymore under this president. So the priorities of the media have shifted, especially with this new digital age, and the White House Correspondence Association has really been an inclusive group, exclusive group of journalists who cover this White House. They have not really welcomed other people, new media, independent journalists with open arms. And so we thought it was time to expand the coverage and determine who gets to be part of that thirteen person press pool, who gets to ask the President of the United States questions in the Oval Office? A board air Force one. And since we have started this new process of determining the daily rotation, so many new voices and outlets who have never been part of this small and privileged group of journalists have been able to access those very unique and privileged spaces and cover this presidency. And that's very important.

Well, as you know, the White House Correspondence Association is truly become a monetized monopoly over the White House and the coverage of the President of the United States in America. This is a group of journalists who have been covering the White House for decades. They started this organization because the presidents at the time were not doing enough press conferences. I don't think we have that problem anymore under this president. So the priorities of the media have shifted, especially with this new digital age, and the White House Correspondence Association has really been an inclusive group, exclusive group of journalists who cover this White House. They have not really welcomed other people, new media, independent journalists with open arms. And so we thought it was time to expand the coverage and determine who gets to be part of that thirteen person press pool, who gets to ask the President of the United States questions in the Oval Office? A board air Force one. And since we have started this new process of determining the daily rotation, so many new voices and outlets who have never been part of this small and privileged group of journalists have been able to access those very unique and privileged spaces and cover this presidency. And that's very important.

And how was it to talk with Caroline about the job you used to do?

And how was it to talk with Caroline about the job you used to do?

It was awesome, Right, So many people interview her about what the president's views are and I love that, but to have a conversation with her pre Secretary to presscretory, it was really cool.

It was awesome, Right, So many people interview her about what the president's views are and I love that, but to have a conversation with her pre Secretary to presscretory, it was really cool.

I want to thank you. This is great fun. You're remarkably knowledgeable and well.

I want to thank you. This is great fun. You're remarkably knowledgeable and well.

I learned under the best Well.

I learned under the best Well.

Reagan was a terrific teacher. I really cherish your friendship.

Reagan was a terrific teacher. I really cherish your friendship.

I want to thank you for joining me, and I want to let our listeners know they can find your podcast, The Shawn Spicer Show on Apple Podcasts or YouTube. They can watch the morning meeting by signing up a two way dot tv, and they can follow everything you're doing at Shawn Spicer dot com or join you on substack at substack dot com at Shawn Spicer and I'm just very grateful.

I want to thank you for joining me, and I want to let our listeners know they can find your podcast, The Shawn Spicer Show on Apple Podcasts or YouTube. They can watch the morning meeting by signing up a two way dot tv, and they can follow everything you're doing at Shawn Spicer dot com or join you on substack at substack dot com at Shawn Spicer and I'm just very grateful.

That you give always honored to be with you.

That you give always honored to be with you.

Thank you to my guest, Shawn Spicer. You can get a link to his podcast, The Shawn Spicer Show on our show page at.

Thank you to my guest, Shawn Spicer. You can get a link to his podcast, The Shawn Spicer Show on our show page at.

Newsworld dot com.

Newsworld dot com.

Newsworld is produced by Ginglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at ginglidhtree sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple podcast and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of newts World consign up for my three freeweekly columns at gingrichpree sixty dot com slash newsletter.

Newsworld is produced by Ginglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at ginglidhtree sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple podcast and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of newts World consign up for my three freeweekly columns at gingrichpree sixty dot com slash newsletter.

I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Nutsworld.

I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Nutsworld.