In this episode of Newts World, as Christmas Day approaches and we celebrate the birth of Jesus, I wanted to introduce our listeners to the Word on Fire Institute. It is a nonprofit global media apostolate that supports the work of Bishop Robert Baron and reaches millions of people to draw them into or back to the Catholic faith. So I'm really pleased to welcome my guest, doctor Matthew Patruci. He's the senior director of the Word on Fire Institute. Matthew, welcome and thank you for joining me on Newts World.

In this episode of Newts World, as Christmas Day approaches and we celebrate the birth of Jesus, I wanted to introduce our listeners to the Word on Fire Institute. It is a nonprofit global media apostolate that supports the work of Bishop Robert Baron and reaches millions of people to draw them into or back to the Catholic faith. So I'm really pleased to welcome my guest, doctor Matthew Patruci. He's the senior director of the Word on Fire Institute. Matthew, welcome and thank you for joining me on Newts World.

Thank you. It's a great pleasing to be with you.

Thank you. It's a great pleasing to be with you.

This is a fascinating time. The Wall Street Journal recently reported the US Bible sales surged by twenty two percent through October of twenty twenty four. What do you make of this significant increase in Bible sales and what do you think is driving this trend.

This is a fascinating time. The Wall Street Journal recently reported the US Bible sales surged by twenty two percent through October of twenty twenty four. What do you make of this significant increase in Bible sales and what do you think is driving this trend.

It's a remarkable number, isn't it. And when I read that, I thought, well, maybe there's some major press that's doing a marketing campaign, or there's at least some external factor that can at least contribute to an explanation of why this is happening. But what I found is that it seems to be entirely organic. In other words, a major segment of the American population on its own decided that they were going to start purchasing Bibles. And in fact, most of these purchases, almost all of them are first time purchases.

It's a remarkable number, isn't it. And when I read that, I thought, well, maybe there's some major press that's doing a marketing campaign, or there's at least some external factor that can at least contribute to an explanation of why this is happening. But what I found is that it seems to be entirely organic. In other words, a major segment of the American population on its own decided that they were going to start purchasing Bibles. And in fact, most of these purchases, almost all of them are first time purchases.

Of the Bible.

Of the Bible.

So I think it very clearly signals a shift in the culture. Now we can get into sort of a more exploration of why that shift may be taking place and where it may be headed, but certainly something has changed.

So I think it very clearly signals a shift in the culture. Now we can get into sort of a more exploration of why that shift may be taking place and where it may be headed, but certainly something has changed.

So from your perspective, do you interpret this rising Bible sales as also an indication of rediscovery of faith in America?

So from your perspective, do you interpret this rising Bible sales as also an indication of rediscovery of faith in America?

I do. I do.

I do. I do.

What's interesting is this is occurring as the number of people in general, but specifically young people who identify as nuns, who've probably heard Bishop Baron use that term nuns meaning those who claim no religious affiliation, certainly within Christianity, no particular affiliation, any domination. That number appears to have peaked. It was rising for literally decades, and now it's hit a plateau. So as we're witnessing that plateau of people who are saying, I have nothing to do with religion, we're also seeing this rise in Bible sales, and so I think what's been happening is we've been in the midst of a decades long social experiment, one that has deep roots, deep philosophical roots. But I think it really started to have cultural currency outside of the universities about ten to fifteen, maybe twenty years ago. Of cultural altivism. It's more radical than cultural eltis. It's absolute subjectivism. So each person gets to create his or her or nowadays we have to say it, they their truth as an individual, and in that sense, we all get to sort of become gods. And there's no objective reality, there's no fixed meeting and purpose to life, there's no shared human nature, there's no common good. And so that's really the cultural moral stew that we've been living in for this time. And anyone could have predicted this who is paying attention decades ago, but it's going to lead to disaster. It's going to lead to individual and communal collapse. And I think that's what's happened. And now people are looking for those deeper roots, as you put it, looking for return to a kind of at least a floor that we can all stand on together.

What's interesting is this is occurring as the number of people in general, but specifically young people who identify as nuns, who've probably heard Bishop Baron use that term nuns meaning those who claim no religious affiliation, certainly within Christianity, no particular affiliation, any domination. That number appears to have peaked. It was rising for literally decades, and now it's hit a plateau. So as we're witnessing that plateau of people who are saying, I have nothing to do with religion, we're also seeing this rise in Bible sales, and so I think what's been happening is we've been in the midst of a decades long social experiment, one that has deep roots, deep philosophical roots. But I think it really started to have cultural currency outside of the universities about ten to fifteen, maybe twenty years ago. Of cultural altivism. It's more radical than cultural eltis. It's absolute subjectivism. So each person gets to create his or her or nowadays we have to say it, they their truth as an individual, and in that sense, we all get to sort of become gods. And there's no objective reality, there's no fixed meeting and purpose to life, there's no shared human nature, there's no common good. And so that's really the cultural moral stew that we've been living in for this time. And anyone could have predicted this who is paying attention decades ago, but it's going to lead to disaster. It's going to lead to individual and communal collapse. And I think that's what's happened. And now people are looking for those deeper roots, as you put it, looking for return to a kind of at least a floor that we can all stand on together.

I get the sense that many younger people looking at their slightly older brothers and sisters or cousins, find their lack of faith on satisfying somehow that's not a life they want or a way of life they want. We've seen it in some balling we've done America's New Majority Project, where you're seeing a shift among people under say twenty years of age to being much more conservative in a way that totally violates everybody in the left's theory of how this is going to work. But it's almost like they're reacting to the lack of meaning and the lack of commitment that they're seeing in people slightly older than themselves.

I get the sense that many younger people looking at their slightly older brothers and sisters or cousins, find their lack of faith on satisfying somehow that's not a life they want or a way of life they want. We've seen it in some balling we've done America's New Majority Project, where you're seeing a shift among people under say twenty years of age to being much more conservative in a way that totally violates everybody in the left's theory of how this is going to work. But it's almost like they're reacting to the lack of meaning and the lack of commitment that they're seeing in people slightly older than themselves.

Absolutely, I think that's right on, and I think something that's important to highlight about the young people is they're paying the price. We can link this analogously perhaps a deficit spending.

Absolutely, I think that's right on, and I think something that's important to highlight about the young people is they're paying the price. We can link this analogously perhaps a deficit spending.

Right.

Right.

So, this idea of there not being any real purpose to life has been out there for a while, and for a period of history. You know, it really didn't have many consequences because there were still the older generation that was still living according to the generic moral norms that we had as a people, as a biblical people, as a country founded on the natural law and a basic understanding of an objective morality. So while this is social expert was being conducted, there was still this generation holding things together. But now that generation has moved on, and so there's nobody holding things together anymore. And who's paying the biggest price for it the young people. They're the ones who are in this sort of aimless environment. And it's across the board, right, it's psychological, it's religious, it's spiritual, it's economic, and they're understandably rebelling against it, and good for them.

So, this idea of there not being any real purpose to life has been out there for a while, and for a period of history. You know, it really didn't have many consequences because there were still the older generation that was still living according to the generic moral norms that we had as a people, as a biblical people, as a country founded on the natural law and a basic understanding of an objective morality. So while this is social expert was being conducted, there was still this generation holding things together. But now that generation has moved on, and so there's nobody holding things together anymore. And who's paying the biggest price for it the young people. They're the ones who are in this sort of aimless environment. And it's across the board, right, it's psychological, it's religious, it's spiritual, it's economic, and they're understandably rebelling against it, and good for them.

Do you find this also in the outreach that you're doing at the Word Unfaire Institute. Do you see more young people expressing an interest in what you're doing?

Do you find this also in the outreach that you're doing at the Word Unfaire Institute. Do you see more young people expressing an interest in what you're doing?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

That's one of Bishop Baron's great intuitions early on, now decades old, and when he started posting videos on YouTube, just after YouTube entered into the digital sphere, and immediately those who were most attracted to what he was saying were young people, not many young people.

That's one of Bishop Baron's great intuitions early on, now decades old, and when he started posting videos on YouTube, just after YouTube entered into the digital sphere, and immediately those who were most attracted to what he was saying were young people, not many young people.

This is still early on.

This is still early on.

This is still when the new Atheism still had quite a bit of cultural currency left. I think they're bankrupt now, but at that time they were still sort of in the ascendency. But even then, a lot of those who identify with the new form of atheism, like you know, the Christopher Hitchen Sam Harris form of atheism, would argue with Bishop Baron. Then he was Father Baron online, so they were attracted to it. They couldn't look away, and his influence among young people has only grown since then.

This is still when the new Atheism still had quite a bit of cultural currency left. I think they're bankrupt now, but at that time they were still sort of in the ascendency. But even then, a lot of those who identify with the new form of atheism, like you know, the Christopher Hitchen Sam Harris form of atheism, would argue with Bishop Baron. Then he was Father Baron online, so they were attracted to it. They couldn't look away, and his influence among young people has only grown since then.

I just have to take him out to reflect on him. Callista is a big follower of his and finds that his material is very uplifting. I think she gets a daily something on the scriptures from him, and she listens every single day and seenes man impact. So in a lot of ways, the Word on Fire Institute starts with one priest who has an intuition that you can proselytize on the Internet and has grown that into a worldwide ministry.

I just have to take him out to reflect on him. Callista is a big follower of his and finds that his material is very uplifting. I think she gets a daily something on the scriptures from him, and she listens every single day and seenes man impact. So in a lot of ways, the Word on Fire Institute starts with one priest who has an intuition that you can proselytize on the Internet and has grown that into a worldwide ministry.

That's right, and I mean the origin stories are very humble. If you ever get Bishop Baron talking about them. The first meetings I could share this that took place around a Panera bread cafe. That's where they first started getting together to begin planning of what this ministry might look like and what it might do. Bishop Baron of does indeed have a great charism but we also, and he's the first one to say this, are just grateful for the work of the Holy Spirit who has been both at the helm leading this whole operation and certainly animating it as well.

That's right, and I mean the origin stories are very humble. If you ever get Bishop Baron talking about them. The first meetings I could share this that took place around a Panera bread cafe. That's where they first started getting together to begin planning of what this ministry might look like and what it might do. Bishop Baron of does indeed have a great charism but we also, and he's the first one to say this, are just grateful for the work of the Holy Spirit who has been both at the helm leading this whole operation and certainly animating it as well.

Now he is currently the bishop in Winona and Rochester, is that correct?

Now he is currently the bishop in Winona and Rochester, is that correct?

That's right, southern Minnesota.

That's right, southern Minnesota.

Yeah, but are you based in Los Angeles? I was, And you've now got to learn what Minnesota winters are like.

Yeah, but are you based in Los Angeles? I was, And you've now got to learn what Minnesota winters are like.

This is winter number two outside my window right now. Yeah, there's some subtle differences.

This is winter number two outside my window right now. Yeah, there's some subtle differences.

I kind of test to you are proving your faith and your commitment by going from Los Angeles to eastern Minnesota.

I kind of test to you are proving your faith and your commitment by going from Los Angeles to eastern Minnesota.

All right, from your lips to God's ears.

All right, from your lips to God's ears.

But I'm curious what drew you to the Word on Fire Institute.

But I'm curious what drew you to the Word on Fire Institute.

I started listening to Bishop Baron pretty early on when he was on YouTube. In fact, the first video that he did was on the movie That Departed, a fantastic movie, and I happened to find it on YouTube like so many others. And my first thought was a Catholic priest talking about a movie, and not some you know, religious movie, but a movie that Departed. Right, It's a movie about basically mob violence in Boston, And I found his review fascinating, and so that was sort of my entree into his world. Now, I was in graduate school at the time at the University of Chicago when I really started listening to his work. And something I found while the University of Chicago, I can't speak high enough about it's really maintained it's academic integrity.

I started listening to Bishop Baron pretty early on when he was on YouTube. In fact, the first video that he did was on the movie That Departed, a fantastic movie, and I happened to find it on YouTube like so many others. And my first thought was a Catholic priest talking about a movie, and not some you know, religious movie, but a movie that Departed. Right, It's a movie about basically mob violence in Boston, And I found his review fascinating, and so that was sort of my entree into his world. Now, I was in graduate school at the time at the University of Chicago when I really started listening to his work. And something I found while the University of Chicago, I can't speak high enough about it's really maintained it's academic integrity.

Over time.

Over time.

My experience with the academic world more broadly was one in which not only was the faith watered down, it was completely distorted. Even in disciplines outside of religion and outside of theology, encounters so much ideology, so many claims that are just disprovably false, right, And so I also sort of became attracted to his writings, into his words as a beacon of an intellectualism.

My experience with the academic world more broadly was one in which not only was the faith watered down, it was completely distorted. Even in disciplines outside of religion and outside of theology, encounters so much ideology, so many claims that are just disprovably false, right, And so I also sort of became attracted to his writings, into his words as a beacon of an intellectualism.

That is of the highest order.

That is of the highest order.

And I think that's what it's attracted so many different kinds of people into his orbit and in the Word on Fire Institute orbit, is that we really truly seek to embody the logos the reason of the Catholic tradition.

And I think that's what it's attracted so many different kinds of people into his orbit and in the Word on Fire Institute orbit, is that we really truly seek to embody the logos the reason of the Catholic tradition.

If you were to describe the Word on Fire Institute's mission, how would you.

If you were to describe the Word on Fire Institute's mission, how would you.

Describe We have a dual mission at the same time, so we like to use the Latin term ad intra ad extra. It just means we're seeking to speak to the world those who are outside the church, or who have one foot inside and one foot outside, and we're also seeking to speak to those who are inside the church as well. And our goal is really to evangelize in the broadest possible sense, and what that means is to make the good news of Jesus Christ in its most expansive understanding, especially speaking to a more secular audience, that there is order, meaning and purpose to the world, that your specific life does have a meaning to it, does have a great calling to it, That there is the possibility of a greater kind of social cohesion oriented to a robust understanding of the common good. To make that idea palpable and to make it inspiring, and this is crucial to what we do. We use this term called evangelizing the culture is to find what Bishop Baron oftentimes calls the seeds of the word, the seeds of the word, that this is a term that goes back to the very origins of the church, but to make points of contact in the secular culture to say, look, you're already talking about things that have eternal significance, and so.

Describe We have a dual mission at the same time, so we like to use the Latin term ad intra ad extra. It just means we're seeking to speak to the world those who are outside the church, or who have one foot inside and one foot outside, and we're also seeking to speak to those who are inside the church as well. And our goal is really to evangelize in the broadest possible sense, and what that means is to make the good news of Jesus Christ in its most expansive understanding, especially speaking to a more secular audience, that there is order, meaning and purpose to the world, that your specific life does have a meaning to it, does have a great calling to it, That there is the possibility of a greater kind of social cohesion oriented to a robust understanding of the common good. To make that idea palpable and to make it inspiring, and this is crucial to what we do. We use this term called evangelizing the culture is to find what Bishop Baron oftentimes calls the seeds of the word, the seeds of the word, that this is a term that goes back to the very origins of the church, but to make points of contact in the secular culture to say, look, you're already talking about things that have eternal significance, and so.

Let's start there.

Let's start there.

Let's start on a particular movie, or a particular book, or a particular political movement, and show how this indeed is already kind of an entree into a full worldview that, in its greatest sense is salviafic leads us to our greatest happiness properly understood.

Let's start on a particular movie, or a particular book, or a particular political movement, and show how this indeed is already kind of an entree into a full worldview that, in its greatest sense is salviafic leads us to our greatest happiness properly understood.

From your perspective, then do you look for movies and things that are reflective or do you take them as they are and then try to figure out what the meaning inside them is both.

From your perspective, then do you look for movies and things that are reflective or do you take them as they are and then try to figure out what the meaning inside them is both.

We're constantly scanning the culture, all divisions of the culture, so whether it's popular entertainment, whether what's what's going on in tech. So a big area that we're looking at right now is AI artificial intelligence that's on a lot of people's mind. I like to focus in particular on the political realm, not in any partisan way, but just sort of political currents, and there we seek to make points of contact. This is fundamentally a Christian understanding the world, right, so the world in and of itself is fundamentally good. Any deviation from that goodness we would identify as evil.

We're constantly scanning the culture, all divisions of the culture, so whether it's popular entertainment, whether what's what's going on in tech. So a big area that we're looking at right now is AI artificial intelligence that's on a lot of people's mind. I like to focus in particular on the political realm, not in any partisan way, but just sort of political currents, and there we seek to make points of contact. This is fundamentally a Christian understanding the world, right, so the world in and of itself is fundamentally good. Any deviation from that goodness we would identify as evil.

But it's a deviation. So the world we could even.

But it's a deviation. So the world we could even.

Use the word metaphysically and its fundamental sense is good. Okay, So what that means is we have a basic orientation defining good in the world. It's there objectively, it's there even in spite of ourselves oftentimes. So make connection with that. And what that means is off times in something that may otherwise be say a movie that may otherwise have some very deviant themes, some dark themes that are not good for people, perhaps we can still find something, some point of contact that's worth saying, Yeah, but this is worth meditating on.

Use the word metaphysically and its fundamental sense is good. Okay, So what that means is we have a basic orientation defining good in the world. It's there objectively, it's there even in spite of ourselves oftentimes. So make connection with that. And what that means is off times in something that may otherwise be say a movie that may otherwise have some very deviant themes, some dark themes that are not good for people, perhaps we can still find something, some point of contact that's worth saying, Yeah, but this is worth meditating on.

And so that's what we seek to do.

And so that's what we seek to do.

We seek to look for the good wherever it is, to stand against evil when we see it as well. But based on this fundamental predisposition that God created the world and he created the world good.

We seek to look for the good wherever it is, to stand against evil when we see it as well. But based on this fundamental predisposition that God created the world and he created the world good.

One of the things you've done is create a Word on Fire podcast, which I gather you do every week. Is it routinely an hour long or how does it work?

One of the things you've done is create a Word on Fire podcast, which I gather you do every week. Is it routinely an hour long or how does it work?

So we have the Word on Fire show that's with Bishop Baron that comes out twice a month. Each episode's about a half hour. You can find that on Bishop Baron's YouTube channel. So we have two YouTube channels. We have Bishop Baron's on YouTube channel. He's also on all the other social media platforms we have the Institute YouTube channel. The Word on Fire show is specifically on Bishop Baron's YouTube channel and there for any of your listeners who haven't had the opportunity to listen to it or to watch it. It's Bishop Baron doing exactly what we're describing here, talking about some major cultural movement or some question or some idea or some book or some movie that has evangelical significance, and really sort of getting to the bottom of it, exploring it and taking away the kinds of lessons that are helpful both for those inside the church and outside the church.

So we have the Word on Fire show that's with Bishop Baron that comes out twice a month. Each episode's about a half hour. You can find that on Bishop Baron's YouTube channel. So we have two YouTube channels. We have Bishop Baron's on YouTube channel. He's also on all the other social media platforms we have the Institute YouTube channel. The Word on Fire show is specifically on Bishop Baron's YouTube channel and there for any of your listeners who haven't had the opportunity to listen to it or to watch it. It's Bishop Baron doing exactly what we're describing here, talking about some major cultural movement or some question or some idea or some book or some movie that has evangelical significance, and really sort of getting to the bottom of it, exploring it and taking away the kinds of lessons that are helpful both for those inside the church and outside the church.

You have a lot of different people who've listened to you. Do you have any sense of what your reach is?

You have a lot of different people who've listened to you. Do you have any sense of what your reach is?

We have a good sense, and it's wide. So one of the great blessings that I have been inside the Institute is we get many letters and emails of people who say something along the following lines. I was a total atheist. I had a principled objection to the existence of God. Sometimes it was just an intellectual objection. Sometimes it's an intellectual objection added to some sort of trauma that they've experienced. The encounter of evil in the world, and listening to you, Bishop Baron, listening to the productions of the Word on Fire Institute slowly but surely led me along the path to discovering that God does exist, and that Jesus Christ is his only son, and that he has founded a church whose calling is to gather all the people. There's many different permutations of that story that are highly individualized, but we see it happening in the numbers of the thousands, and those are just the people who communicate with us.

We have a good sense, and it's wide. So one of the great blessings that I have been inside the Institute is we get many letters and emails of people who say something along the following lines. I was a total atheist. I had a principled objection to the existence of God. Sometimes it was just an intellectual objection. Sometimes it's an intellectual objection added to some sort of trauma that they've experienced. The encounter of evil in the world, and listening to you, Bishop Baron, listening to the productions of the Word on Fire Institute slowly but surely led me along the path to discovering that God does exist, and that Jesus Christ is his only son, and that he has founded a church whose calling is to gather all the people. There's many different permutations of that story that are highly individualized, but we see it happening in the numbers of the thousands, and those are just the people who communicate with us.

For you, it must be a remarkably fulfilling experience have this opportunity to reach out and to share faith and to share the gospel.

For you, it must be a remarkably fulfilling experience have this opportunity to reach out and to share faith and to share the gospel.

Absolutely, and one of the things that I especially appreciate about the Word on Fire Institute Ethos the way we specifically try and position ourselves in relations to the culture is we seek to recognize the real brokenness of the world. It's not something that we paper over. It's not something that out of a kind of misplaced sense of piety. We don't want to get our hands dirty, we don't want to say things that perhaps would scandalize people. We're going to be able to defront the world as it is carrying the Gospel message out into the dark, recognizing that there is a fact a lot of darkness, and the principal origin of that darkness is within our own hearts. So to recognize this is one of the fundamental themes of our evangelical work. Recognize that, I'll just personalize it. Recognize that I am as sinner, Recognize that I have a kind of fundamental brokenness to me that I can't fix on my own, and that's precisely the reason that I need a redeemer. So that's part of the Gospel message. The Gospel message is not just sort of therapeutic deism, as I think it's right been described of, like hey, you're perfect just the way you are, and the world is fine just the way it is. All you need is a little help to reorganize your life. It's start from the premise that there is brokenness. There is a deep darkness. There's cruelty, there's as Bishop Baron puts it, there's stupidity, there's a desire to self destruct even within all of us. And so once we are honest with that, then we can really truly see the power of the Gospel. That's Jesus Christ is seeking to save. He's come to save sinners, not the righteous. What's the subtext of that? No one is righteous on their own, so he's come to save all of us out in the wilderness.

Absolutely, and one of the things that I especially appreciate about the Word on Fire Institute Ethos the way we specifically try and position ourselves in relations to the culture is we seek to recognize the real brokenness of the world. It's not something that we paper over. It's not something that out of a kind of misplaced sense of piety. We don't want to get our hands dirty, we don't want to say things that perhaps would scandalize people. We're going to be able to defront the world as it is carrying the Gospel message out into the dark, recognizing that there is a fact a lot of darkness, and the principal origin of that darkness is within our own hearts. So to recognize this is one of the fundamental themes of our evangelical work. Recognize that, I'll just personalize it. Recognize that I am as sinner, Recognize that I have a kind of fundamental brokenness to me that I can't fix on my own, and that's precisely the reason that I need a redeemer. So that's part of the Gospel message. The Gospel message is not just sort of therapeutic deism, as I think it's right been described of, like hey, you're perfect just the way you are, and the world is fine just the way it is. All you need is a little help to reorganize your life. It's start from the premise that there is brokenness. There is a deep darkness. There's cruelty, there's as Bishop Baron puts it, there's stupidity, there's a desire to self destruct even within all of us. And so once we are honest with that, then we can really truly see the power of the Gospel. That's Jesus Christ is seeking to save. He's come to save sinners, not the righteous. What's the subtext of that? No one is righteous on their own, so he's come to save all of us out in the wilderness.

In a sense, the very original rebellion of Adam and Eve in Eating the Apple in Defiance of God is renewed regularly by people who reject God and try to find a way to live as isolated beings with nothing to fill the spiritual gap. I'd never thought of it before, but in a sense it's a renewal at a personal level of Genesis and the story of Eve and Adam.

In a sense, the very original rebellion of Adam and Eve in Eating the Apple in Defiance of God is renewed regularly by people who reject God and try to find a way to live as isolated beings with nothing to fill the spiritual gap. I'd never thought of it before, but in a sense it's a renewal at a personal level of Genesis and the story of Eve and Adam.

Every form of sin, we say is ultimately has its roots in pride. And what is pride at its deepest level is I am my own God. I am the creator of all that is. I'm the creator, the order of the structure, and even the redeemer. We see this in sort of this misplaced sense of self righteousness, and we could even see in some progressive ideologies, right, I'm the savior as well. So not only do I create, I save, And that's sort of what we see in that original rebellion. You've got your finger, I think in exactly the right place is what's the serpent say you will be like God's and that they find the thrilling, they find it so irresistible, right, And that's I think that's the temptation of sin. Sin is always attractive, Sin always looks delicious, Sin always has a positive feeling associated with it, But it's always poison. And so in one way or another, we're always going to see whatever brokenness that we're a part of, whatever brokenness we're creating, it's going to have that original rebellion embedded within it.

Every form of sin, we say is ultimately has its roots in pride. And what is pride at its deepest level is I am my own God. I am the creator of all that is. I'm the creator, the order of the structure, and even the redeemer. We see this in sort of this misplaced sense of self righteousness, and we could even see in some progressive ideologies, right, I'm the savior as well. So not only do I create, I save, And that's sort of what we see in that original rebellion. You've got your finger, I think in exactly the right place is what's the serpent say you will be like God's and that they find the thrilling, they find it so irresistible, right, And that's I think that's the temptation of sin. Sin is always attractive, Sin always looks delicious, Sin always has a positive feeling associated with it, But it's always poison. And so in one way or another, we're always going to see whatever brokenness that we're a part of, whatever brokenness we're creating, it's going to have that original rebellion embedded within it.

I think that's exactly right.

I think that's exactly right.

And that's why when you watch what's happening, you see people who are hollowed out because they have nothing to sustain them, and that leads, I think, to drugs, it leads to suicide, It leads to a lot of different terrible things that have become the hallmark of a secular society which I think doesn't realize it yet, but is in search of God in a very profound way. The Word on Fire Institute is filling a human need that's very deep in the American system.

And that's why when you watch what's happening, you see people who are hollowed out because they have nothing to sustain them, and that leads, I think, to drugs, it leads to suicide, It leads to a lot of different terrible things that have become the hallmark of a secular society which I think doesn't realize it yet, but is in search of God in a very profound way. The Word on Fire Institute is filling a human need that's very deep in the American system.

It's very deep everywhere. But I think you're absolutely right.

It's very deep everywhere. But I think you're absolutely right.

There's a particular malaise in the United States I'd say probably in the West in general, I think part there's some exceptions to that, but certainly the United States is part of that. Malayse I like that word emptiness. You can oftentimes see new You can see the emptiness in the eyes right especially now that we have access to so many different people who desire to be you know, seeing on what it's on TikTok or in Utah. You can literally see in their eyes that emptiness that you're pointing to. I think that's one of the fundamental problems with the rainy ideology, to various forms, the idea that I create my own truth. I am the god of my own moral and even physical universe. I can even change the very nature of my body to declare myself to be a woman, for example.

There's a particular malaise in the United States I'd say probably in the West in general, I think part there's some exceptions to that, but certainly the United States is part of that. Malayse I like that word emptiness. You can oftentimes see new You can see the emptiness in the eyes right especially now that we have access to so many different people who desire to be you know, seeing on what it's on TikTok or in Utah. You can literally see in their eyes that emptiness that you're pointing to. I think that's one of the fundamental problems with the rainy ideology, to various forms, the idea that I create my own truth. I am the god of my own moral and even physical universe. I can even change the very nature of my body to declare myself to be a woman, for example.

That whole idea is.

That whole idea is.

That it's ultimately radically isolating. If it's true that we are the authors of our own world, then that means no one else really is in that world, and that's hell. That's sort of the definition of hell is radical isolation from all other human beings and ultimately for God. So we see basically a living hell right now before our eyes.

That it's ultimately radically isolating. If it's true that we are the authors of our own world, then that means no one else really is in that world, and that's hell. That's sort of the definition of hell is radical isolation from all other human beings and ultimately for God. So we see basically a living hell right now before our eyes.

I was fascinated by a Pew Research Center study. It said about twenty one percent of the American adults regularly watch religious services online, twenty one percent use apps or websites to help them read the Bible or other religious scriptures. Sixteen percent said they were regularly attending religious services only in person, so there are actually more people who are on line then only attend in person. Ten percent we're regularly watching services only on screens but not going to church, seventeen percent regularly doing both, and fifteen percent of US adults say they listen to religion focused podcasts and they use apps or websites to help or remind them to pray, including eight percent who use prayer apps or sites daily. It's an amazing penetration accepting the technology of the modern era as a legitimate way to spread the Word of God and to get people to be engaged in a spiritual pursuit.

I was fascinated by a Pew Research Center study. It said about twenty one percent of the American adults regularly watch religious services online, twenty one percent use apps or websites to help them read the Bible or other religious scriptures. Sixteen percent said they were regularly attending religious services only in person, so there are actually more people who are on line then only attend in person. Ten percent we're regularly watching services only on screens but not going to church, seventeen percent regularly doing both, and fifteen percent of US adults say they listen to religion focused podcasts and they use apps or websites to help or remind them to pray, including eight percent who use prayer apps or sites daily. It's an amazing penetration accepting the technology of the modern era as a legitimate way to spread the Word of God and to get people to be engaged in a spiritual pursuit.

It's the way it is now.

It's the way it is now.

At the Institute, we sort of recognize a kind of tension. It's a creative tension, but it's a genuine tension, and it takes a falling form. So on the one hand, we are incarnational beings. So this is the season of advent, we're headed towards Christmas.

At the Institute, we sort of recognize a kind of tension. It's a creative tension, but it's a genuine tension, and it takes a falling form. So on the one hand, we are incarnational beings. So this is the season of advent, we're headed towards Christmas.

Right.

Right.

The fundamental Christian message is that God becomes incarnate, becomes fully human while remaining fully divine. So salvation and as it were, our full happiness for the fullness of what it means to be human is in the tactile, physical realm, and so our lives, properly understood, should be enmeshed with each other, physically present, with encountering beauty, physically present, with deep friendships, with marriage, with children.

The fundamental Christian message is that God becomes incarnate, becomes fully human while remaining fully divine. So salvation and as it were, our full happiness for the fullness of what it means to be human is in the tactile, physical realm, and so our lives, properly understood, should be enmeshed with each other, physically present, with encountering beauty, physically present, with deep friendships, with marriage, with children.

All these physicalities.

All these physicalities.

Right, that's what it means to fundamentally be oriented to God in the incarnate, in Jesus Christ. And so we always want to move people back to the physical realm. But at the same time, right as you're pointing out, that's not where a lot of people are living their lives, right. I read a stat recently that youth are spending between six to eight hours a day looking at a screen. And so there's a kind of evangelical sense that, well, look, we've got to go to where the people are. That doesn't mean that's where we're going to stay, but we got to go there. And where are they. They're on their phones, they're on their computers, and so we have to be there too.

Right, that's what it means to fundamentally be oriented to God in the incarnate, in Jesus Christ. And so we always want to move people back to the physical realm. But at the same time, right as you're pointing out, that's not where a lot of people are living their lives, right. I read a stat recently that youth are spending between six to eight hours a day looking at a screen. And so there's a kind of evangelical sense that, well, look, we've got to go to where the people are. That doesn't mean that's where we're going to stay, but we got to go there. And where are they. They're on their phones, they're on their computers, and so we have to be there too.

Frankly, that allows you to be in the progression, if you think of it as crossing a bridge, to go from the side of the bridge which is purely secular, and gradually work their way across to the side which is deeply religious. I think in that sense that Word on Fire is really at the cutting edge of how we save Western civilization, because Western civilization can only be saved if it is ultimately built around the Judeo Christian tradition and aware of the power of the spiritual world and not just the physical world. And in that sense, I think this is fundamental both to the future of the United States, but also to the future of the entire civilization that we're part of.

Frankly, that allows you to be in the progression, if you think of it as crossing a bridge, to go from the side of the bridge which is purely secular, and gradually work their way across to the side which is deeply religious. I think in that sense that Word on Fire is really at the cutting edge of how we save Western civilization, because Western civilization can only be saved if it is ultimately built around the Judeo Christian tradition and aware of the power of the spiritual world and not just the physical world. And in that sense, I think this is fundamental both to the future of the United States, but also to the future of the entire civilization that we're part of.

I totally agree.

I totally agree.

There's two fundamental dangers with regards I think to an individual life, but who could also say the life of a civilization. And one danger is to I think this is probably the danger that we're mired in right now, is to just live in the physical, bodily realm, to cut our connection to the transcendent, to deny the very existence of the train and sendent, and to just live a purely physical life. Well, of course, the danger of that is the denigration and degradation of the human being that we see happening in so many different forms before our eyes. Right now, what's the Christian tradition do? It reconnects us to the transcendent in a sacramental way, so that everything, ultimately properly understood can be a vehicle for making contact with God. The other danger, however, is to live in like a platonic note. I don't think this is happening, but it has happened in periods of history, to say, well, look, bodies are bad, the world is bad, the world is passing away. There's nothing good or redeemable here, and so our whole purpose is tried to escape our materiality, to escape the very sort of confines of the corpus that we're in. Well, that's a mistake too, and a civilization that doesn't take seriously the fundamental goodness of physical reality is also going to fail. So I think you're absolutely right. The only proper orientation and foundation of a civilization is one from a Christian point of view, a Biblical point of view that recognize is the fundamental goodness of physical reality, the importance of social life, the importance even a politics of culture and yet is always grounded in and oriented to the transcendent.

There's two fundamental dangers with regards I think to an individual life, but who could also say the life of a civilization. And one danger is to I think this is probably the danger that we're mired in right now, is to just live in the physical, bodily realm, to cut our connection to the transcendent, to deny the very existence of the train and sendent, and to just live a purely physical life. Well, of course, the danger of that is the denigration and degradation of the human being that we see happening in so many different forms before our eyes. Right now, what's the Christian tradition do? It reconnects us to the transcendent in a sacramental way, so that everything, ultimately properly understood can be a vehicle for making contact with God. The other danger, however, is to live in like a platonic note. I don't think this is happening, but it has happened in periods of history, to say, well, look, bodies are bad, the world is bad, the world is passing away. There's nothing good or redeemable here, and so our whole purpose is tried to escape our materiality, to escape the very sort of confines of the corpus that we're in. Well, that's a mistake too, and a civilization that doesn't take seriously the fundamental goodness of physical reality is also going to fail. So I think you're absolutely right. The only proper orientation and foundation of a civilization is one from a Christian point of view, a Biblical point of view that recognize is the fundamental goodness of physical reality, the importance of social life, the importance even a politics of culture and yet is always grounded in and oriented to the transcendent.

In that sense, what you're doing is at the heart of trying to weave together. You can learn about this, you can experience it on the internet, but you can also then take that into your own life, into your own community, into your own church. And it's the dual interaction. I mean, you can also be a witness in your business or a witness in your social activities, not in a aggressive missionary sense, but simply in reflecting on the centrality of spiritual belief and the centrality of some connectivity to God, which is inherently humbling. That's a key part of this is that we are all merely children of God, and therefore we all have to ultimately look to God for salvation and to God for living a complete life. And Matthew wanna thank you for joining me. I want to let our listeners know they can learn more about the terrific work you are doing at the Word on Fire Institute by visiting your website at Wordonfire dot org, which will be on our show page. And Bishop Baron has some terrific videos on your site as well as the Word on Fire podcast. I can say on behalf of Calissa. These are really really worthwhile and I really encourage our listeners to check it out.

In that sense, what you're doing is at the heart of trying to weave together. You can learn about this, you can experience it on the internet, but you can also then take that into your own life, into your own community, into your own church. And it's the dual interaction. I mean, you can also be a witness in your business or a witness in your social activities, not in a aggressive missionary sense, but simply in reflecting on the centrality of spiritual belief and the centrality of some connectivity to God, which is inherently humbling. That's a key part of this is that we are all merely children of God, and therefore we all have to ultimately look to God for salvation and to God for living a complete life. And Matthew wanna thank you for joining me. I want to let our listeners know they can learn more about the terrific work you are doing at the Word on Fire Institute by visiting your website at Wordonfire dot org, which will be on our show page. And Bishop Baron has some terrific videos on your site as well as the Word on Fire podcast. I can say on behalf of Calissa. These are really really worthwhile and I really encourage our listeners to check it out.

Thank you so much, Thank you so much. God bless you, and early very merry Christmas to you new.

Thank you so much, Thank you so much. God bless you, and early very merry Christmas to you new.

Thank you to my guest doctor Matthew Patrussik. You can learn more about the Word on Fire Institute on our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newtschwell is produced by Gannglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guernsey Sloan and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created by Steve Fenley Special thanks to tam at Gingrid three sixty. If you've been enjoying Nutsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my three free weekly columns at gingrichtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. This is Neutsworld.

Thank you to my guest doctor Matthew Patrussik. You can learn more about the Word on Fire Institute on our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newtschwell is produced by Gannglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guernsey Sloan and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created by Steve Fenley Special thanks to tam at Gingrid three sixty. If you've been enjoying Nutsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my three free weekly columns at gingrichtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. This is Neutsworld.