Episode 732: Secret Service Performance in Butler, PA

Published Jul 25, 2024, 10:18 PM

Newt talks with retired Secret Service Agents, Bill Livingood and Jerry Bechtle about the assassination attempt on former President Donald Trump in Butler, Pennsylvania. They discuss the training a Secret Service agent goes through, which includes physical training, weapons training, and first aid training. The conversation also touches on the history of the Secret Service, and the dual roles of the Secret Service in protection and crime investigation.

On this episode of the New World, I'm talking with retired Secret Service agents Bill living Goood and Jerry Beckdel and I wanted to get their expertise to discuss what happened on Saturday, July thirteenth in Butler, Pennsylvania with former President Donald Trump's assassination attempt. I should say in advance that for me, this is a great opportunity to talk with an old friend, Bill living Good, who we brought in when I was Speaker from the Secret Service, made him the Sergeant Arms for the House, and he modernized the Capitol police force in a way which was just astounding when I would say, probably the most successful person of anybody that I appointed as Speaker. So it's great for me to be back with Bill and with Jerry. Let me start and ask each of you just to give our audience an understanding of the depth of experience that we're bringing to this conversation. If each of you could discuss your careers. Bill, could you sort of give us a background with the Secret Service? And then the sergeant at arms.

Yes, sir, I was a Secret Service agent after I graduated from college at Michigan State and Criminal Justice Program, where I'd also been a police officer in a town called Saugatuck, Michigan. And I came into the Secret Service and I spent thirty four years there and really loved every second. I really enjoyed the Secret Service because they were a very straight agency. They want you to do the best. They gave the opportunity to do the best, and they trusted you, and I trusted them. And at the Secret Service, you got the best out of every man and woman that I worked with, and it was really fantastic. I had a lot of trust in them, a lot of faith I still do. And I spent thirty four years in the Secret Service, and then I retired and I went to the US Capital and was hired by Speaker Newt Gingridge. And what a time did I have. I spent seventeen years at the Capitol. I thought i'd only stayed maybe a year or two. I ended up a lot more than that. I really enjoyed that and I learned a lot. I got a lot of good cooperation from the members. As sergeant at arms, and it was really really a great position. I had the Capitol police, I had some of the investigations, and I had the overall security obviously of the House side of the Capitol, and worked with the Senate. Started in our arms. It was a good friend of mine, and we really accomplished a lot. And I'm going to have to say this, it's the reason I think I enjoyed it so much. I got the cooperation because of Speaker Gingridge, and I got the cooperation of all the members, Republican and Democrat. It didn't matter, it did not matter. We were non political, and we did things for the right reason and to make the capital better. And that was quite an honor. And that's why I really enjoyed the US Capitol. And actually, I believe it or not, I miss it.

I can personally testify that both the degree to which you professionalized what had really not been a very professional group in the Capitol. Honest guys, well meaning guys, but they had nothing like the discipline and the doctrine that you brought in. And then the fact that while we were together we had really significant problems. We had September eleventh, right after I left, we had the anthrax scares, and we had the nineteen ninety eight shootings of two US Capitol police officers. I mean, you were there for some significant activities. You made a huge difference qualitatively which has continued to this day in creating a professional police force. Jerry, what was your background with the Secret Service?

Well, Irishman. I graduated the University of Maryland in nineteen sixty After a short term in the Army, I was hired in nineteen sixty two as a special agent. Worked my way up through the ranks and I think worked through the President Kennedy assassination. I was on the job two assassination attempts of Vice President Ford and one assassination attempt on President Reagan. My headquarters, I had more experience there. I was the Deputy Assistant Director for Protective Operations, which oversaw all protective details presidents, vice president, etc. Then I went into the Office of Inspection, where we'd look at the internal affairs, what the agents are doing, what an organization detail is doing. We inspected them at least every three years and make sure procedures were being followed. And retired in nineteen eighty six as the deputy director. So what I can add to the conversation and what I'd like to say, I've made no contact whatsoever with any member of the present Service. I had a son that retired. He wouldn't tell me if my pants were on fire. So I think the Service is very quiet about what they do because of the nature of what they do, and in regards to the director, And I don't know whether you want me to say it, but I'm going to say it. I believe she would have retired, sir, but I think she was holding on to get all the facts known about everything that took place there in Butler, PA. And if we were wrong, I think she would have admitted it and then retired. But I think she just held out as long as she could to make sure that the investigation was complete and all the facts are known. That's just me making new statements.

There sometimes because you mentioned your son. Also an end of the service. What kind of training does a Secret Service agent go through?

Bill?

If you want to address that, they do an awful lot of training, bookwork. They go to Beltsville, Maryland. And I happen to have been the assistant director of training for some time. We bring people in to help train them, and then we use our own people, and I think the level of training is extremely high, high level. And you see the difference when these young men and women finish their training. It's not only academically, well, it's everything the Secret Service does. And then it's a lot of physical and practice. For instance, you saw how the agents moved the president during the assassination attempt to a vehicle. Let's take him to the hospital. We practiced that time after time after time, and all type of movements we practice and it's an honor having been there. And then there's a lot of physical training and firearms. It's an experience.

Well, if I could just interject to prior to the Secret Service training, the new agents are sent down to Glencoe, Georgia, where they're given basically the function of Homeland Security. They're therewith agents of Homeland Security, Customs, Border Patrol, you name it. Anyone that's entitled for basic training in Glencoe. And then every individual agent, no matter who they're with, goes back to their own agency. And that's where Bill interjected our Beltsville training, that's strictly Secret Service training. The ladies and gentlemen go all type of operations. And to jump ahead, if you're on a detail, by that I mean the President's detail or the vice President's detail, we call a fourth ship. What that is you have the midnight to eight shift, you have the four to twelve shift, and the eight to four shift. They operate every two weeks, and then there's a fourth shift that is involved, and that is nothing but training. You'll go through weapons training, You'll go through first aid training. It's a individual two week training that every agent on the detail goes through.

Somehow, out of all that you create in a spree decorps and a sense of having to meet the standard and having to be focused in the tents, that is really quite remarkable, and I think the Secret Services generally one of the most admired organizations. I have to ask a question which I shouldn't know the answer, and I don't. Wasn't the Secret Service originally in the Treasury?

Yes, sir, that's correct, and believe it or not. I just commented to Bill when Director Ray was giving his testimony, and he commented on the anniversary of the FBI one hundred and ten years or whatever, and it's interesting to note that five Secret Service agents started the FBI. It was then known as the Bureau of Investigation. Five agents were transferred from the Treasury to Justice and they formed then the Bureau of Investigation. And then mister Hoover came along and he then made it the Federal Bureau of Investigation. But interestingly enough, five agents started the FBI.

From that standpoint, I Americ correctly was founded during the Civil War largely to go after counterfeiting.

Yeah, Congress thought we were getting too big for riches. They took us away. I think it was the teapot dome scandal and they said, wait a minute, the service is getting too big. Let's break away some of this stuff. And that was the formation of the FBI.

Yep okay. And so do you still have counterfeiting as part of your assignment or is that now back in treasure.

Yes, sir, And roughly the latest figures that I think probably sixty seventy percent of the counter fitting taking place is done overseas. I would think an agent today here the secret serves wouldn't know a Japanese yen, just like the foreigners over there wouldn't know account for a twenty dollars bill. So most of it is taking place over in Europe now, but it's still an ongoing investigation along with major credit card fraud, bank fraud, you name it. There's a working agreement between the FBI and the Secret serves as to who gets called first.

But you guys grew up in essence and operated in an institution that really had two different hats. One is a protection hat and the other is a crime hat. With I think all the public focus being on your protective.

Role, that is correct. I think you're right, And of.

Course the most famous part of that is protecting the president. I mean the movies that have been made, if Clint Eastwood did one, there've been a whole bunch of movies that focus around the Secret Service and its protective role. Both of you know from your own experience, how tans and how focused when you saw what happened in Butler, were you surprised or was there anything that initially stopped you?

The thing that shocked me the most is the after effect. How did the gentlemen get on the roof without certain response? And I think those are the questions that the committees are asking up on the hill. And I just would like to say I would hope that someday a commission is formed made up of experts. I'm not knocking down the senators or the congressman, sir, It's just that professionals should be the ones that are doing this review. They know the questions to ask Bill and I as investigators. That's what we were trained to do, investigate. And you know you have people that say, well, this is what we did. Well. I think we have the knowledge and wherewithal to say, Okay, what did you see beforehand? What did you see after? Who did you port? Two, etc. These are the things that I would like to know right now. And I know Director Cheatle has said the FBI has an ongoing investigation, and I heard Director Ray say there's an ongoing investigation, and I agree with both of them. Let's get the facts out. I'm a reminder of the old Joe Friday Dragnet show. Just the facts, man, That's all I want, just the facts.

We can take this incident and break into kind of three parts. One is before the shots are fired, what happened? How did the guy get up on the roof? The second is the turmoil right around the shots, and then the third is the reaction to the shots and the elimination of the would be assassin. Let me start with this whole question of how did they end up with a roof that was uncovered? I mean, did that surprise you that they would not have had somebody up there or somebody in another roof watching it.

That's one of the questions we had. That's it here, Jerry and I. What happened or how did they get on that roof and what transpired? Who was in the building and how did they get up onto the roof?

Which way?

It struck me as very odd. I think there were two people in the building.

That's the part that's correct. That's the part that were they ordered there by the service? Meaning this is your area of responsibility that building? Because what we saw, we saw a picture overlooking that roof, and if that was their responsibility to guard or look over that roof, okay, But then when the report came of a suspicious person, I think they're two of those officers left that. Now the big thing is were they supposed to stay there and watch the roof? That's an unanswered question, but that's one that I would ask. Why were they into building and what was their responsibility? And who ordered it? Were they ordered by the service to stay there or who knows? It could have been, Hey, we're inside because it's one hundred degrees outside and wanted to cool off a little bit. But from their viewpoint, they had a perfect view of that roof. And if they had stayed there, I'm not blaming them, but it's obvious if they had stayed there, they probably would have seen the assassin. But unfortunately someone said there's a suspicious person outside. I think they went out to look for that suspicious person and they lost them, and that person then got on the roof, and then probably someone pointed out there's a man on the roof, and that's how the one fellow got up there, look had the weapon pointed at him. You have to talk to them to find out was their responsibility inside that building and what happened when they saw him on the roof. What happened?

One thing I forgot to say, I think which affected me personally. As Jerry said he protected for presidents, I protected also for presidents and headed up President Bush, the father. I was in charge of his detail for the entire time. And did I learn a lot? I mean, just because of all the movements we add And I think that meant a lot to me in my life and in my career in the Secret Service.

And your question, mister speaker, leads to another one, and I don't mean to take you off of your schedule there, but we do have a counter sniper team there. I say team because I don't know whether they had two or three teams. Part of their responsibility and that's the uniform division. They will go out and they will do a survey of the various buildings at that site. They will speak to the manager of that building, tell them to secure the building, make sure windows close, any activity that is suspicious to him, they will let him know, please call us. So that's where it comes in. The sniper may have surveyed that building and he may have determined that that is the building I'm primarily interested in. You hear a lot about the water tower. Well, maybe as far as the counter sniper supervisor may have said, wait a minute, that's why it opened. We could very easily see the water tower. We don't have a problem there. Maybe the one we should focus in on is the building where the assassin was. I don't know, but that's an answer that I would have towards the counter sniper team. Did they have that in view? And I think at some point in time they must have had it in view when it was reported a suspicious person, and particularly when it was reported someone's on the roof. The big thing I would have to ask the question again is who told who about a man on the roof? Did they report it back to the service? How was it reported? Who did it? Let's get some factual information.

Which sort of makes your point that we need a professional commission of the kind of people who know how to ask those kind of questions.

I'm glad you said that, mister speaker, because it's going to take someone like yourself. I think that it's just going to make it known you need a professional, professional group. And I'm not knocking the senators or the congressman asking these questions, but a professional knows how to get the truth from a suspect and or defendant. And I'm not saying any of the witnesses, the police officer, the counter staper, members of the detail, they're not suspect. You just want the answers from them, and I hope they give them.

Yes, and they will.

You're just trying to put together a step by step understanding without rendering judgment. I mean, you first have to figure out what actually was happening and why it's interesting given the background you two have. I remember when President Reagan was shot, which was a different environment and a different kind of gun. The reaction of the Service is surrounding him and literally I think piling on top of him in the car to make sure nobody else could shoot him, was in a sense parallel to what we saw happen with President Trump, where the people of his immediate group all came together around him to protect him, risking literally their lives if there'd been a multiple sniper event. Is that standard training, and you train yourselves that your job is to come in training it.

I watched that closely that day, and that is exactly what they had been taught, and they did an outstanding job.

I thought, I'll give you an example, mister speaker, from the training perspective. You're out in Beltsville and there's all kinds of scenarios the instructors give to you out there, and one scenario is that the would be actor he shot and an agent responds to him, and it would be President says, get to that lady over there, she was shot. Also, you know, make sure she getting first aid and your train I hate to say it, the heck with that lady. Your job is the president. That lady may die and it's unfortunate. But your job is protect the president, and you are verbally you're criticized if you made any move towards that lady. Your job is the president and that is it. You will stay with the president, and that's what his detail is meant to do. I'm not going to say how many men are there, but you can picture the follow up car. They contain agents. Those are the agents that you'll always see around him, physically around him. Then you have the posts standers. They're the guys and young ladies that are out there in the crowd doing whatever their responsibilities are.

I thought it'd be useful, guys to just hear the audio. You see the agent's moving, working as a team, talking to each other.

Let's go in and play it there.

Hold already on you ready, woody? Are you ready? Good?

Shooters down, I'll be good to move.

We're care.

Come. Let me get my speed, I got you, Let me get my shoes. Hold on your head, bloody, so we gotta go to the bus.

Let me get.

So.

Let's tell me.

What impresses me is there has to be kind of an emotional level of chaos. You those opening ninety seconds, I mean people have to really have been well trained to automatically do what they're supposed to do.

I would say, on all the assassination attempts, the agent's reaction just unbelievable. I was amazed, and I would equate it to mister Hill jumping on the back of the limousine with President Kennedy's assassination, pushing Missus Kennedy back in the car. How he got to that back of the car, I couldn't tell you. And in Butler, that agent responding, if you're looking at it, the president in front of you, that agent that runs from offstage, that is amazing. He had to have heard a shot and reacted, and he got there before any other agent responded. How he did that, it is amazing. He had the reflexes of an old basketball player, which I am myself, but his reflexes just unbelievable, unbelievable.

I was very proud of them on that movement.

I think the whole country agrees that the people right around the president were astonishing.

Frankly, but that doesn't excuse, sir, that a mistake was made somewhere. Let's find out that mistake about what took place when that shooter was confronted and the information passed, How was it passed and was it given to the agent in charge? Those questions need to be asked.

That is a huge crowd that was there, and everybody was yelling and screaming. But the Secret Service agency that I observed, and I did it purposely because I wanted to report back what they did or didn't do. I was very impressed with.

And everyone or certain people may have a question why it took so long to get them off the stage. I would say, you have to have what's going on at that point in time. They're evaluating that wound. You get a ten minute medicine course in training how to keep them alive for ten minutes. Well, thankfully this was I won't want to say a minor, but it was a minor injury. He was down laying below. They're going over him, making sure that he's not injured any place else and trying to treat that wound. So that was why maybe they were laying there for a good little pit before they removed him. They were going over his wound, the same as Jerry Parr did with President Reagan, going over his body to make sure where you hit where you hit what's going on? Fortunately, Jerry saw the octygenated blood, so he knew there was a lung wound somewhere. Now with President Trump, I'm sure they were doing the same thing where you hurt. Is it other than the ear? So that was why that paused. Why they're laying down there.

And they were making arrangements to get into a.

You know, and the air produces a lot of blood, so there has to be a brief moment there where the agents immediately engaged are looking at former president whose face is getting pretty bloody. I mean that has to be a pretty sobering moment.

Oh definitely.

And believe me, sir, you'll see that if it ever comes out, Like on a training exercise at Beltsville, you'll have people wearing little body packs with the ketchup so to speak. You know, when the round is fired and bingo, that individual acting is he presses that and that ketchup's flying all over and it looks like he's bleeding, and you know he's saying to you, go check that, lady, Go check that lady. No, Sarah, I'm here to check you. And that's what you're trained to do. Period.

That part they did very well, and during that part, the counter sniper team was taking care of the attacker. Tell me just for a minute, what's the difference between the protective team and the tactical team.

The tactical team, Sarah, will consist of basically your counter sniper. It will consist of I hate to get into this side of it, but we do have a drone program and an anti drone program. There's a way that they can neutralize the drones, so that'll be part of the tactical You have the communication side of it, which sets up the communications at the site. There'll be a whole radio set up, telephone communications. That'll be part of the tactical side. The command post, right, don't confuse it. I would say the easiest way to separate it is the protective detail. That is the President's detail. They are assigned there for a period of maybe three or four years. They'll work those shifts every two weeks. They'll stand post at the White House, they'll travel with the president wherever he goes all three shifts. If it's an overnight, they will do the actual physical protection of the president. The other side of it is the post Sanders, the ones that you'll call in for assistant like maybe in Butler, they may have called in agents from Cleveland, from Charleston, West Virginia, from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. If they said they needed more help. That's where headquarters would say, we're sending them. Here's where they're coming. When do you want them there? Okay, and then they'll be part of the overall briefing.

One of the quest things, which is you have a counter sniper team who I thought pretty non effective that day. Is that a standard part of the package.

Yes, sir, it is for movements like that when they're at rallies, large functions.

And it's his or her responsibility to survey that site and determine maybe there's no need for the counter sniper team, maybe there are no big buildings, but the sniper team may stay there and survey the crowd through their telescopic whatever have you. And part of that team, sir, is they'll have a response team. If they see something that is out of the ordinary on a building, they will call the response team and say go check that out, and the response team will get back to them and say, oh, it's nothing. He was an air conditioning guy working on the air conditioning unit. But unfortunately things happened so quick by the time this guy was identified with the rifle. Now, what does the counter sniper team do. Boy, he's got a matter of seconds. I don't know how many, but he may have picked him up and said, Okay, do I fire? And you know as well as I do. God, we never hear the end of it if he shoots an inocient person, an air conditioning repairman on top of a building. But he's made a decision that I got to do something, and God forbid, he'll pay for it.

Yeah, and they'll do it.

I thought the reaction time was pretty amazing in this particular case. The director Cheadle said that it would take sixty days to get a report. Is that pretty standard? I mean, when you're dealing with something like this, and I think the three of us are in agreement. We need an investigation by professionals, not by politicians. How long should that kind of investigation take?

In your judgment, sixty days is too long, sir, And I think I'm just guessing now thirty days.

I would agree with Bill on that. And if I was heading up in my old position that I was in, the assistant director for our internal affairs. In all probability, they're conducting an investigation right now, but I just fear the stumbling blocks that are in the way by that. I could picture somebody that is a key to this thing and the investigation saying I'm not talking to nobody, I want a lawyer because they're fearful that maybe they're going to get sued by somebody. I could picture the FBI doing what they're doing. We have an ongoing investigation, and do they want to release anything too prematurely for fear that it's wrong. So you have all those stumbling blocks. But I just wish, sir, that we had someone that would just stand up and say, you know, enough is enough? What have you found so far? And we'll straighten out the errors later on. You say there were eight shells up there, now we found there's dying. Well, we'll straighten that out later on. Right now, let's investigate what we need to investigate. How did the assassination attempt happen? And I don't think it should take that long if everyone was open. One thing I'd like to do, mister speaker, if I could, I watched the hearings yesterday. I want to compliment the commissioner of the Pennsylvania State Police, Commissioner of Paris. He was so forthcoming with information that no one heard, and he had no reservations because he spoke his part of what took place. Would I criticize the Bureau, Would I criticize the Service? I think yes, but I think they're being very careful what they can and what they can't say. But this gentleman, the Commissioner of State Police, I think was unbelievable, and I give him a lot of credit.

I would agree with that he was excellent. But I do think it can be cut short. I mean compared to what sixty days, and I think it needs to be because they're still out there.

And you know, Sir, better than either of us. The committees that are held up on the hill, every organization, Bureau of US, the Pennsylvania State Police, they kind of have an idea of the questions and they say they need more time. But unfortunately, I guess the committees have a time schedule too. They want to get to it right away, and maybe the organizations don't have the information right away. And unfortunately the Bureau, the Secret Service, Pennsylvania State but may be embarrassed, but they don't have the answers at this time. I would agree much shorter. How much time I don't know, but I would think thirty days. And maybe the director was on the spot and had to make an answer, so she throws out sixty days. I think it was just something that she threw out.

One of the things. I was struck by her testimony because she had been a professional. She's not just a political appointee, but she's somebody who actually had grown up in the agency. She said that they currently have about eight thousand agents nationally, but they really need ninety five hundred. Do you get a sense when you talk to friends who are so active that they are in fact stretched pretty thin and the service just isn't big enough to cover everything has been asked to do.

Let's look at the Uniform Division. That's an organization within the Secret Service roughly now, and I'm only guessing the latest figure that I knew, maybe twelve hundred and fifty. And to say it, a part of that most of them are college graduates. They're going to move on, They're looking for better jobs. They don't want to stand post at the White House or at an embassy eight hours a day, and it isn't eight hours a day. I can tell you that much. Right now, they're almost on twelve hour shifts. So they're overworked. That's the uniform division why because the people are leaving. They're leaving to go get better jobs at the FBI, at State Department, at DEEA, so they can be home at night maybe and only work eight hours a day. Now. The same is true for the agents. I can't tell you. Let's say if I was in Butler, would if I have asked for twenty five agents? Would I've asked for thirty five agents? Would I ask for forty five? Because you give me the agents and I'll protect it all the way to Pittsburgh. But if I don't have the agents, I'm going to do the best I can with what you've given me and what I've asked for. And being in headquarters, that'll come to the assistant director of Protective Operation. He's a fellow that I would want to talk to because I'd say, did you get a request for more agents? And did you respond by getting the more agents? But the first thing I would ask, being in protective operation, why do you need them? Have you identified someplace that you think you need them and you don't have the manpower. That's the first thing, because you know as well as I do, Congress is going to ask what are we doing with all these agents? And unless we can tell them what we're doing, why we have them, and the reason why we have it's going to be a tough one. And Headquarters does the same thing. But I'd look at the assistant director and I'd say, where were you involved in this program? Can you say the director was called at home about the planning of Butler? I don't think so. She may have been briefed, but my god, she's trying to control the budget of three billion dollars, trying to do the women hiring program, and is she involved in the planning of Butler? I would say maybe, maybe, But the assistant director is the one that's going to have a handle on that.

Yeah, And I would agree with that entirely, having been out there as an agent.

Let me ask you one last question, given both your own experiences and of course Dury in your case, i'lso your son's experience. If some young person came to you today and said they were thinking about it, would you encourage them to join the Secret Service.

Yes, sir, I would very definitely.

And Sir, I've tried myself with six grandchildren, and you know the thing that comes up. I'd say, well this and they say it's law enforcement. Oh my god, they're liable to get shot while they're in the field office or while they're on protective assignment. And then I respond by saying, well, maybe they want to mature a little bit and maybe join the military. And the first thing I hear is, well, you know the military, My god, that's war. So we don't want them to join the military either, So I encourage them. I had a son, did it. But by six grandkids, I don't think their parents are interested in having, you know, their father being away or their husband being away. I can remember with LBJ. Well, I'll use an example. I was assigned to George Wallace. I didn't get home for six months. But that's no worse, sir, than being in the military and being away from your wife and family. God bless our military. God bless every police officer who walks down that dark alley every day, or you know, stop somebody in the car. They don't know what they're in for. And I say, God bless them, and thank goodness, we have the people, young ladies and young men doing the job right now, and they're only doing the best they can.

That's right. And I would really encourage people that are retiring from the military or leaving to look at the Secret Service and interview them because they make really good agents because of their experience in the military and what they learn.

I think that's very very good advice. Bill, Andre thank you for joining me. I think this has been a very informative conversation about how the Secret Service operates, and frankly hearing from two patriots who have themselves risk their lives, dedicated their lives to protecting presidents, into protecting us. It's an honor to have both of you spend time.

With me and speaker if I could just to finish up, and I know Bill and I will probably get criticized because we appeared on your show or any other show. They only like to have one spokesperson, and I can't blame them for that, but I just wish that you and the Congress asked the right questions, and I think that's what Bill and I were proud of. We were given the opportunity to throw questions at you that you might be in a position to ask those individuals. We won't have the opportunity. I would never call the director and say why this and why that? But you have it. I think we have an obligation to provide you with the questions to ask. So do I.

And if I may say something, mister speaker, you've heard it from me. But I have never worked with a person more intelligent and more caring about this country than you. And that's why I stayed. And I will never forget that every time I needed something, you were always available and your words of wisdom are still around with everyone that heard you. And thank you for your dedication as country.

Well.

You're very kind, Goman, You're a great friend, and I can't speak too highly of the experiences we had together, so thank you. I appreciate both of you taking the time to be with us.

Thank you, Thank you, sir.

Thank you to my guest Bill living Good and Jerry Bechdel. You can learn more about The Secret Service on our show page at newtworld dot com. Newtworld is produced by Gettwid, Sween sixty and iHeartMedia, Actuity producers Guernsey Sloan, Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at Gingrich three sixty. If you've been enjoying news World, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of New World can sign up for my three free weekly columns at gingrichthree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. This is Newsworld.

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