On this episode of News World. I recently watched a video on YouTube that showed six month old emperor penguin chicks marched to the ocean in Antarctica. When they arrived at the edge of a fifty foot cliff, this amazingly huge crowd of penguin chicks all began to dive off the cliff into the ocean. As it turns out, this action had never been filmed for television before. The video was captured by a National Geographic team led by wildlife filmmaker Bertie Gregory in January twenty twenty four. It's part of the series Secrets of on National Geographic and will be released as part of the Secrets of the Penguin special around Earth Day in April twenty twenty five. I was so taken with the video and how the filmmakers were able to capture this extraordinary footage that I wanted to invite Birdie Gregory to tell me and all of us about his incredible experience filming these Emperor penguin checks. Pretty welcome and thank you for joining me in New World. And I have to say it's a thrill for me to talk with you. I've loved animals my entire life, and I have to say I'm more than a little envious of your career.

On this episode of News World. I recently watched a video on YouTube that showed six month old emperor penguin chicks marched to the ocean in Antarctica. When they arrived at the edge of a fifty foot cliff, this amazingly huge crowd of penguin chicks all began to dive off the cliff into the ocean. As it turns out, this action had never been filmed for television before. The video was captured by a National Geographic team led by wildlife filmmaker Bertie Gregory in January twenty twenty four. It's part of the series Secrets of on National Geographic and will be released as part of the Secrets of the Penguin special around Earth Day in April twenty twenty five. I was so taken with the video and how the filmmakers were able to capture this extraordinary footage that I wanted to invite Birdie Gregory to tell me and all of us about his incredible experience filming these Emperor penguin checks. Pretty welcome and thank you for joining me in New World. And I have to say it's a thrill for me to talk with you. I've loved animals my entire life, and I have to say I'm more than a little envious of your career.

Oh well, nice to me, and nian thanks for having me get to chat with you.

Oh well, nice to me, and nian thanks for having me get to chat with you.

So let's start with the Emperor penguin checks. And of course there's a great documentary called March of the Penguins which gives you a flavor for how unusual the Emperor penguins are. But describe for our listeners how you approach this whole project and how you captured that moment of the Emperor penguin chicks jumping into the freezing called Antarctic for their first swim.

So let's start with the Emperor penguin checks. And of course there's a great documentary called March of the Penguins which gives you a flavor for how unusual the Emperor penguins are. But describe for our listeners how you approach this whole project and how you captured that moment of the Emperor penguin chicks jumping into the freezing called Antarctic for their first swim.

Yeah. So emperor penguins are a real challenge to film. They live in what I call proper Antarctica. Now, when I say proper Antarctica, if you are one of the people lucky enough to visit Antarctica, generally speaking, most people go to what's called the Antarctic Peninsula, which is a piece of Antarctica that sticks up towards South America. And because it's a little further north, it's more temperate. I say temperate, is still very cold, and it's covered in many different species of penguins, but it doesn't have many emperor penguins. Emperor penguins live on the kind of continental mass of Antarctica where it's much colder and it's incredibly remote. So we spent two months camping on the ice. Our team did, and we were camping a couple miles from a ten thousand strong emperor penguin colony, and during those two months we watched the chicks grow up, and the timing of our expedition was so that towards the end of our two months that would be the point at which the chicks would start leaving their colonies and they'd start marching to the ocean and jump in the sea for their very first swims. Now, we expected them to sort of reach the water's edge and jump off of what's known as sea ice, so the drop this is frozen ocean, so the drop into the water would be normally one or two feet. They'd just fall off and PLoP and then start swimming. But very unexpectedly, I was flying the drone one day searching down the coast, and we noticed that there were these groups of chicks that weren't going towards the sea ice edge where we were. They were instead taking a different route and disappearing kind of over the horizon, and we couldn't get to where they were because it was an incredibly dangerous area of ice. It had lots of crevasses that these big cracks in the ice. So I flew the drone there because we couldn't physically go there, and to our amazement, stood at the edge of this fifty foot ice cliff was a group of seven hundred Emperor Penguin chicks all stood right at the edge of this cliff. Yeah, that was kind of the scene that unfolded.

Yeah. So emperor penguins are a real challenge to film. They live in what I call proper Antarctica. Now, when I say proper Antarctica, if you are one of the people lucky enough to visit Antarctica, generally speaking, most people go to what's called the Antarctic Peninsula, which is a piece of Antarctica that sticks up towards South America. And because it's a little further north, it's more temperate. I say temperate, is still very cold, and it's covered in many different species of penguins, but it doesn't have many emperor penguins. Emperor penguins live on the kind of continental mass of Antarctica where it's much colder and it's incredibly remote. So we spent two months camping on the ice. Our team did, and we were camping a couple miles from a ten thousand strong emperor penguin colony, and during those two months we watched the chicks grow up, and the timing of our expedition was so that towards the end of our two months that would be the point at which the chicks would start leaving their colonies and they'd start marching to the ocean and jump in the sea for their very first swims. Now, we expected them to sort of reach the water's edge and jump off of what's known as sea ice, so the drop this is frozen ocean, so the drop into the water would be normally one or two feet. They'd just fall off and PLoP and then start swimming. But very unexpectedly, I was flying the drone one day searching down the coast, and we noticed that there were these groups of chicks that weren't going towards the sea ice edge where we were. They were instead taking a different route and disappearing kind of over the horizon, and we couldn't get to where they were because it was an incredibly dangerous area of ice. It had lots of crevasses that these big cracks in the ice. So I flew the drone there because we couldn't physically go there, and to our amazement, stood at the edge of this fifty foot ice cliff was a group of seven hundred Emperor Penguin chicks all stood right at the edge of this cliff. Yeah, that was kind of the scene that unfolded.

When I watched the video, which I recommend everybody who's listening. There's this moment when they first get to the edge of the cliff and they kind of freeze, like I don't know that I want to do this. And then I don't know if the first couple are shoved off or if they'd finally decide they just have to do it. But you have the other men dropping fifty feet right into the ocean.

When I watched the video, which I recommend everybody who's listening. There's this moment when they first get to the edge of the cliff and they kind of freeze, like I don't know that I want to do this. And then I don't know if the first couple are shoved off or if they'd finally decide they just have to do it. But you have the other men dropping fifty feet right into the ocean.

Yeah, So what's really extraordinary is that this is the first time these chicks have seen the ocean. Never mind the fact that there's a fifty foot drop, fifty foot cliff to jump off. This is the first time they've seen the ocean, so they don't know how to swim. It's kind of baked down deep inside of them. It's an instinctual magnetism towards the sea that they have because they have no adults to show them where to go either. Their parents had abandoned them the month before. So when they reached the edge of the cliff, as you said, they all sort of stopped and looked and went h not sure about this. And to me, the most important thing was making sure that our presence, you know, the presence of the drone had nothing to do with their choices. And so what I did was I hovered the drone a really long way away. We've got this really cool, powerful new zoom lens stabilized underneath the drone, so it meant I could hover the drone a really long way away. The drone's batteries about between thirty and forty minutes, So I would hover the drone out there, just keeping an eye on them, and then when the battery was empty, I'd fly it back to me, change battery, flight back out. And I did that for three or four hours, and they all just stood at the edge, and then after about three or four hours. I really vividly remember one penguin that you see in the video. The first one was not pushed. It walked to the very edge, kind of stepped forward away from the rest of the chicks and went, I'm doing this and just leapt off. And it's amazing. They really looked to each other for encouragement. And as soon as that first one went and kind of popped up to the surface and was okay, the rest of them started to follow. And yeah, there was a period of about ten minut where they were just pouring off the cliff. It was absolute carnage.

Yeah, So what's really extraordinary is that this is the first time these chicks have seen the ocean. Never mind the fact that there's a fifty foot drop, fifty foot cliff to jump off. This is the first time they've seen the ocean, so they don't know how to swim. It's kind of baked down deep inside of them. It's an instinctual magnetism towards the sea that they have because they have no adults to show them where to go either. Their parents had abandoned them the month before. So when they reached the edge of the cliff, as you said, they all sort of stopped and looked and went h not sure about this. And to me, the most important thing was making sure that our presence, you know, the presence of the drone had nothing to do with their choices. And so what I did was I hovered the drone a really long way away. We've got this really cool, powerful new zoom lens stabilized underneath the drone, so it meant I could hover the drone a really long way away. The drone's batteries about between thirty and forty minutes, So I would hover the drone out there, just keeping an eye on them, and then when the battery was empty, I'd fly it back to me, change battery, flight back out. And I did that for three or four hours, and they all just stood at the edge, and then after about three or four hours. I really vividly remember one penguin that you see in the video. The first one was not pushed. It walked to the very edge, kind of stepped forward away from the rest of the chicks and went, I'm doing this and just leapt off. And it's amazing. They really looked to each other for encouragement. And as soon as that first one went and kind of popped up to the surface and was okay, the rest of them started to follow. And yeah, there was a period of about ten minut where they were just pouring off the cliff. It was absolute carnage.

Do you have any theory of why this particular group of chicks came to that cliff rather than going to the normal entry point.

Do you have any theory of why this particular group of chicks came to that cliff rather than going to the normal entry point.

There's a lot of different scientific theories behind it. I think there's a certain amount of randomness as to the route that these chicks take. You know, it depends on a lot of things. It just so happens that they love playing follow my leader. They moved to the ocean from the colony to the sea. In small groups. If the leader of a group of ten happens to go, oh, I'm going to go left, then all of them will go left, and so that group of seven hundred they didn't march to the ocean as seven hundred. They marched in small groups of between ten and twenty. They sort of slowly filled up there. There's lots of different theories as to why they've gone. I think it's becoming more common that they find themselves at these big cliffs. It's something that's happened. There's evidence to suggest it's happened for years and years and years, but it's becoming more common because of climate change. So as our climate warms, the sea ice that they are usually jumping off is breaking up earlier in the season, and because of that, instead of going down onto the sea ice, they stay on these more permanent ice shelves, which are what make up these big cliffs. That's the thinking.

There's a lot of different scientific theories behind it. I think there's a certain amount of randomness as to the route that these chicks take. You know, it depends on a lot of things. It just so happens that they love playing follow my leader. They moved to the ocean from the colony to the sea. In small groups. If the leader of a group of ten happens to go, oh, I'm going to go left, then all of them will go left, and so that group of seven hundred they didn't march to the ocean as seven hundred. They marched in small groups of between ten and twenty. They sort of slowly filled up there. There's lots of different theories as to why they've gone. I think it's becoming more common that they find themselves at these big cliffs. It's something that's happened. There's evidence to suggest it's happened for years and years and years, but it's becoming more common because of climate change. So as our climate warms, the sea ice that they are usually jumping off is breaking up earlier in the season, and because of that, instead of going down onto the sea ice, they stay on these more permanent ice shelves, which are what make up these big cliffs. That's the thinking.

And are they also worried about falling into crevasses if they were to go on the sea ice or do you think they don't even notice.

And are they also worried about falling into crevasses if they were to go on the sea ice or do you think they don't even notice.

That these more permanent ice shells actually have far more dangers in it. They have a lot of much deeper crevasses. You know, if they fall in a crack in the sea ice, generally they just fall into the water. Whereas we saw this on the ice shelves if they fall in, as that crarass could be one hundred two hundred feet deep and they're not getting out of that. They seem to be blissfully ignorant of the danger. And they sort of walked over this minefield of crevasses that we knew was there, but they walked across.

That these more permanent ice shells actually have far more dangers in it. They have a lot of much deeper crevasses. You know, if they fall in a crack in the sea ice, generally they just fall into the water. Whereas we saw this on the ice shelves if they fall in, as that crarass could be one hundred two hundred feet deep and they're not getting out of that. They seem to be blissfully ignorant of the danger. And they sort of walked over this minefield of crevasses that we knew was there, but they walked across.

If I remember correctly from March of the Penguins, the parents actually have one egg, and one parent holds their egg up off the ground, and the other parent walks miles to the sea, fills up with fish, comes back, and they swap the egg and then the other parent. So there must be some payods.

If I remember correctly from March of the Penguins, the parents actually have one egg, and one parent holds their egg up off the ground, and the other parent walks miles to the sea, fills up with fish, comes back, and they swap the egg and then the other parent. So there must be some payods.

In the case of the emperor penguins. The females are the ones that obviously lay the eggs, and then the male will come over, as you say, and they'll swap. But it's not just weeks that that male has to sit like that. It's a more significant period of time than that. They go through this amazing fasting period. You know, imagine being in minus forty degree temperatures and fasting at the same time. They're a really extraordinary animal. Why on earth, as an emperor penguin would they choose to lay their eggs in the middle of the Antarctic winter. Why wouldn't they do it when the weather's nicer. Well, if you actually look at their life cycle, they're basically working backwards. So if you lay your egg in the middle of the Antarctic winter, when the conditions are most brutal, it means by the time that the chick has hatched and grown up up and is ready to go off by itself, the conditions are most benign. So it's all about working backwards to set themselves up, so the chick is going off on its own when the conditions are kind of most friendly and there's the most food around. It's a very clever system.

In the case of the emperor penguins. The females are the ones that obviously lay the eggs, and then the male will come over, as you say, and they'll swap. But it's not just weeks that that male has to sit like that. It's a more significant period of time than that. They go through this amazing fasting period. You know, imagine being in minus forty degree temperatures and fasting at the same time. They're a really extraordinary animal. Why on earth, as an emperor penguin would they choose to lay their eggs in the middle of the Antarctic winter. Why wouldn't they do it when the weather's nicer. Well, if you actually look at their life cycle, they're basically working backwards. So if you lay your egg in the middle of the Antarctic winter, when the conditions are most brutal, it means by the time that the chick has hatched and grown up up and is ready to go off by itself, the conditions are most benign. So it's all about working backwards to set themselves up, so the chick is going off on its own when the conditions are kind of most friendly and there's the most food around. It's a very clever system.

If I understand it. There really isolated that there aren't either penguins around.

If I understand it. There really isolated that there aren't either penguins around.

The strategy of the emperor penguin is if they can live in this awful place where it's so cold and so windy, where nothing else can survive, which means you've got no competition, so you've got nothing to bother you other species of penguins. There's a much smaller species called the daily They turn up when the Emperor chicks are fledging and often give them a hard time. But during that winter period when they're having the eggs. There's nothing else around, nothing else can survive at that time of year.

The strategy of the emperor penguin is if they can live in this awful place where it's so cold and so windy, where nothing else can survive, which means you've got no competition, so you've got nothing to bother you other species of penguins. There's a much smaller species called the daily They turn up when the Emperor chicks are fledging and often give them a hard time. But during that winter period when they're having the eggs. There's nothing else around, nothing else can survive at that time of year.

Do the Emperor penguins have to worry about leopard seals, I mean as their predation where they're going to go in the water.

Do the Emperor penguins have to worry about leopard seals, I mean as their predation where they're going to go in the water.

Yeah, they do. Yeah, So they're very apprehensive when they're at the water's edge because that is really the danger zone. The leopard seals can't really hunt them in open water, so it's the point that they're jumping in or jumping out that is the most dangerous for them.

Yeah, they do. Yeah, So they're very apprehensive when they're at the water's edge because that is really the danger zone. The leopard seals can't really hunt them in open water, so it's the point that they're jumping in or jumping out that is the most dangerous for them.

They're actually very fast and agile in the water, aren't.

They're actually very fast and agile in the water, aren't.

They incredibly fast, Yeah, but pretty clumsy on land. So you'll see when they're waiting at the water's edge to get in, they're very very hesitant. They take a very long time to decide. It's painful to watch because you're like, please, just get in the water already. But once one goes, they'll all go because it's safety in numbers. If you think you're a leopard seal in the water waiting for one to jump in, if suddenly fifty jump in and they do these amazing evasive maneuvers, it's like watching f thirty five fighter jets doing evasive maneuvers, firing flares out the back. They make these amazing bubble trails that make it so difficult for the leopard seals to pick one off.

They incredibly fast, Yeah, but pretty clumsy on land. So you'll see when they're waiting at the water's edge to get in, they're very very hesitant. They take a very long time to decide. It's painful to watch because you're like, please, just get in the water already. But once one goes, they'll all go because it's safety in numbers. If you think you're a leopard seal in the water waiting for one to jump in, if suddenly fifty jump in and they do these amazing evasive maneuvers, it's like watching f thirty five fighter jets doing evasive maneuvers, firing flares out the back. They make these amazing bubble trails that make it so difficult for the leopard seals to pick one off.

That's really remarkable. And then are they eating krill or what are they eating?

That's really remarkable. And then are they eating krill or what are they eating?

They have a really very diet. They'll be going for krill, small fish, squid. What's really cool about the Emperor is the deepest diving bird. So they can dive down to more than fifteen hundred feet, so really really really deep obviously on a single breath, and these dives can be twenty minutes long. Incredibly capable swimmers.

They have a really very diet. They'll be going for krill, small fish, squid. What's really cool about the Emperor is the deepest diving bird. So they can dive down to more than fifteen hundred feet, so really really really deep obviously on a single breath, and these dives can be twenty minutes long. Incredibly capable swimmers.

So they've found unique sources of food that the others can't compete with exactly.

So they've found unique sources of food that the others can't compete with exactly.

So basically their strategy is to breed in a place where nothing else can live because it's so harsh, and then dive deeper than other birds. So yeah, they're competing with whales at that depth. I guess.

So basically their strategy is to breed in a place where nothing else can live because it's so harsh, and then dive deeper than other birds. So yeah, they're competing with whales at that depth. I guess.

Your team is a UK production company, Tailsmith, and you were living on attended camp on the ifshelf, like for nine weeks at minus five degrees. Wasn't that cold?

Your team is a UK production company, Tailsmith, and you were living on attended camp on the ifshelf, like for nine weeks at minus five degrees. Wasn't that cold?

It was chilly. Some days were colder than others. We actually had one particular incident where we had this big, low pressure, big storm came through and five of our eight tents ripped and just filled up with snow. They just drifted over, so we had to kind of abandon those during the storm and huddle in the other tents. It was a long six day storm that just seemed to go on and on and on, and we ended up there was an unused South African research station, and when I say research station, basically two shipping containers that we knew were there as our kind of emergency bailout. And so we lived in these shipping containers for six days while we waited for the storm to pass. And when we came out, five of the eight tenths were just full of snow, so there was a lot of digging the next few days.

It was chilly. Some days were colder than others. We actually had one particular incident where we had this big, low pressure, big storm came through and five of our eight tents ripped and just filled up with snow. They just drifted over, so we had to kind of abandon those during the storm and huddle in the other tents. It was a long six day storm that just seemed to go on and on and on, and we ended up there was an unused South African research station, and when I say research station, basically two shipping containers that we knew were there as our kind of emergency bailout. And so we lived in these shipping containers for six days while we waited for the storm to pass. And when we came out, five of the eight tenths were just full of snow, so there was a lot of digging the next few days.

How much have the combination of really good cameras and drones changed what you do?

How much have the combination of really good cameras and drones changed what you do?

The advent of drones in particular have just revolutionized what we can do. So it used to be that drones when they first became kind of available, we were using them to just get kind of pretty landscape aerials seen setters for the story. But now thanks to increased flight times and as I mentioned, earlier. You know, more powerful zoom lenses that are stabilized. We can use them to film animal behavior now like never before. I mean, the only reason that was able to film that clip of the chicks jumping off was because of the drone. We couldn't actually see the cliff face because of where we were positioned, so the only way of getting that angle and that perspective was with the drone. So they've been a complete game changer, and I've been very fortunate to kind of be at the forefront of that revolution of drones in wildlife films. Been very lucky to take that technology down to film a number of animals for the very first time, which has been a real honor.

The advent of drones in particular have just revolutionized what we can do. So it used to be that drones when they first became kind of available, we were using them to just get kind of pretty landscape aerials seen setters for the story. But now thanks to increased flight times and as I mentioned, earlier. You know, more powerful zoom lenses that are stabilized. We can use them to film animal behavior now like never before. I mean, the only reason that was able to film that clip of the chicks jumping off was because of the drone. We couldn't actually see the cliff face because of where we were positioned, so the only way of getting that angle and that perspective was with the drone. So they've been a complete game changer, and I've been very fortunate to kind of be at the forefront of that revolution of drones in wildlife films. Been very lucky to take that technology down to film a number of animals for the very first time, which has been a real honor.

But it's really the combination of the drone and exquisite cameras totally.

But it's really the combination of the drone and exquisite cameras totally.

Yeah. So actually the camera underneath these drones is really really small. The technology is evolving incredibly quickly, and it's exciting all these new toys that we get to play with whenever they released.

Yeah. So actually the camera underneath these drones is really really small. The technology is evolving incredibly quickly, and it's exciting all these new toys that we get to play with whenever they released.

Now, this is going to be part of Secrets of the Penguins, premiering in April of twenty five, and that's part of our series The National Geographic. So what can you tell me about the Secrets of the Penguins.

Now, this is going to be part of Secrets of the Penguins, premiering in April of twenty five, and that's part of our series The National Geographic. So what can you tell me about the Secrets of the Penguins.

As a show, it's going to be three episodes. Each episode is going to focus on a different species beyond the Emperor Penguins jumping off, I have been told specifically that the rest is a secret. As the name suggests, I'll have to come back on your podcast to chat with you nearer the time when I'm allowed to spill more of the beans.

As a show, it's going to be three episodes. Each episode is going to focus on a different species beyond the Emperor Penguins jumping off, I have been told specifically that the rest is a secret. As the name suggests, I'll have to come back on your podcast to chat with you nearer the time when I'm allowed to spill more of the beans.

I promise you we were have time for you because I'm totally fascinated with the natural world, which leads me, I guess to a key question about you. You must have a real passion for the natural world and for wildlife and for photography.

I promise you we were have time for you because I'm totally fascinated with the natural world, which leads me, I guess to a key question about you. You must have a real passion for the natural world and for wildlife and for photography.

I think you have to most people that I work with in wildlife film, we didn't come from a filmmaking background. We came from a wildlife a biology background, and kind of the camera side of things is secondary. You know, of courseldlife filmmaker, you need to be technically capable with a camera and flying the drone or whatever tool you specialize in. But first and foremost, the most important thing is your ability to read the animals and figure out what they're going to do next. And of course we're part of a huge team, and we get to work with amazing experts that help inform us on that. But I feel very lucky to have a job that I love. I know not everyone gets to do that. And where it all started was just a passion for wildlife, and I found, sort of by accident in the beginning, that if you take pictures and video of the animals that I'm obsessed with, that's a great way to get other people excited about the natural world and about the thing that I care about.

I think you have to most people that I work with in wildlife film, we didn't come from a filmmaking background. We came from a wildlife a biology background, and kind of the camera side of things is secondary. You know, of courseldlife filmmaker, you need to be technically capable with a camera and flying the drone or whatever tool you specialize in. But first and foremost, the most important thing is your ability to read the animals and figure out what they're going to do next. And of course we're part of a huge team, and we get to work with amazing experts that help inform us on that. But I feel very lucky to have a job that I love. I know not everyone gets to do that. And where it all started was just a passion for wildlife, and I found, sort of by accident in the beginning, that if you take pictures and video of the animals that I'm obsessed with, that's a great way to get other people excited about the natural world and about the thing that I care about.

So I understand when you were a university student you were taking pictures and you managed to go to the Amazon for three months? How did that happen?

So I understand when you were a university student you were taking pictures and you managed to go to the Amazon for three months? How did that happen?

Part of filming wildlife is you need to be a problem solver. I think people have this idea that filming wildlife as a job is basically just prancing around the world having amazing wildlife encounters. But the reality is that's about one percent of the job. Ninety nine percent of the job is problem solving, and I don't know hustling's the right word, but it's making situations arise. And in the case of the Amazon that you mentioned, I managed to convince my university to send me off.

Part of filming wildlife is you need to be a problem solver. I think people have this idea that filming wildlife as a job is basically just prancing around the world having amazing wildlife encounters. But the reality is that's about one percent of the job. Ninety nine percent of the job is problem solving, and I don't know hustling's the right word, but it's making situations arise. And in the case of the Amazon that you mentioned, I managed to convince my university to send me off.

So on the one hand, you're in the middle of the Antarctic and on the other hand, you're in the middle of the huge tropical forest. What a diversity.

So on the one hand, you're in the middle of the Antarctic and on the other hand, you're in the middle of the huge tropical forest. What a diversity.

Some people in my industry kind of specialize in a particular subject. You get people that are specialized in filming birds or cold places or tropical places. I kind of am a jack of all trades, master of none. I like the variety. I do definitely do more cold than hot. I definitely have an affinity to cold places just because being in cold places, whether that be the Arctic or the Antarctic, because they're difficult places to work, challenging places to work. The chances are if you just keep going around the next corner, you might go into a bay or round an iceberg no one's ever been to before, and so the chances are you might be able to see and film something never recorded before. And that's really exciting to me, and that's I think one of the key drivers for me.

Some people in my industry kind of specialize in a particular subject. You get people that are specialized in filming birds or cold places or tropical places. I kind of am a jack of all trades, master of none. I like the variety. I do definitely do more cold than hot. I definitely have an affinity to cold places just because being in cold places, whether that be the Arctic or the Antarctic, because they're difficult places to work, challenging places to work. The chances are if you just keep going around the next corner, you might go into a bay or round an iceberg no one's ever been to before, and so the chances are you might be able to see and film something never recorded before. And that's really exciting to me, and that's I think one of the key drivers for me.

You graduated in zoology at the University of Brussels and the following day you're on the way to South Africa.

You graduated in zoology at the University of Brussels and the following day you're on the way to South Africa.

Fun story. So, when I was a teenager, I used to enter young wildlife photography competitions. I loved photographing wildlife in cities because that was what was near to me when I was growing up. So I got obsessed with the peregrine falcon, the fastest animal on Earth. It's my favorite animal. Most species don't do well, most wild animals don't do well in cities, but peregrines do very well, and that's because one of their favorite prey, the pigeon, is very numerous in cities. I spent a lot of my childhood wandering around London trying to find peregrine falcons, and I managed to get a photo of one in front of a huge Union Jack flag that actually flies on the House Parliament right in the middle of London, and that picture won an award, and at the awards ceremony for that competition was one of the National Geographic Magazine photographers, a guy called Steve Winter. He's one of their kind of top legend photographers, certainly one of my heroes, and he at this event was looking for a new assistant. So it was one of those kind of Willy Wonka Golden Ticket moments where I was in the right place at the right time, had had some of the experience that Steve was after and he offered me a job. He kindly let me finish my university degree and then yeah, the day after my graduation, I jumped on a plane to start working for him. In South Africa, we were doing a worldwide leopard story for National Geographic magazine. That was the beginning of ten years with National Geographic.

Fun story. So, when I was a teenager, I used to enter young wildlife photography competitions. I loved photographing wildlife in cities because that was what was near to me when I was growing up. So I got obsessed with the peregrine falcon, the fastest animal on Earth. It's my favorite animal. Most species don't do well, most wild animals don't do well in cities, but peregrines do very well, and that's because one of their favorite prey, the pigeon, is very numerous in cities. I spent a lot of my childhood wandering around London trying to find peregrine falcons, and I managed to get a photo of one in front of a huge Union Jack flag that actually flies on the House Parliament right in the middle of London, and that picture won an award, and at the awards ceremony for that competition was one of the National Geographic Magazine photographers, a guy called Steve Winter. He's one of their kind of top legend photographers, certainly one of my heroes, and he at this event was looking for a new assistant. So it was one of those kind of Willy Wonka Golden Ticket moments where I was in the right place at the right time, had had some of the experience that Steve was after and he offered me a job. He kindly let me finish my university degree and then yeah, the day after my graduation, I jumped on a plane to start working for him. In South Africa, we were doing a worldwide leopard story for National Geographic magazine. That was the beginning of ten years with National Geographic.

This intrigues me because it says that you were taking pictures of urban leopards in Mumbai. How do leopards exist in an urban environment?

This intrigues me because it says that you were taking pictures of urban leopards in Mumbai. How do leopards exist in an urban environment?

Yeah, great question. So we're doing a worldwide leopard story. So we were documenting leopards across their range, from really wild places like in South Africa. We were near a place called the Sabby Sands and the Timbervati Game Reserves, kind of where you'd expect, I guess to see a leopard wandering around alongside lions and things like that and elephants. There's a population of leopards in Mumbai, which is one of the largest cities on Earth, and in the middle of Mumbai is a national park called Sanja Gando National Park. I think it's about one hundred square kilometers, so it's a pretty big park. But it's surrounded almost on all sides by the city of Mumbai. Under the cover of darkness at night, many of the leopards will spend the day in the safety of the park, and then under the cover of darkness at night, they'll come out of the park and into the city. They're running down the streets and they're hunting stray dogs, people's chick skins, goats, pigs. It's a really amazing story and actually it's a really cool example of coexistence. There were quite a few attacks kind of early on in this relationship, but the local people have really figured out how to live alongside these leopards, which is a pretty amazing thing. And I think we can certainly learn a lot from the people there about tolerance and living alongside big predators.

Yeah, great question. So we're doing a worldwide leopard story. So we were documenting leopards across their range, from really wild places like in South Africa. We were near a place called the Sabby Sands and the Timbervati Game Reserves, kind of where you'd expect, I guess to see a leopard wandering around alongside lions and things like that and elephants. There's a population of leopards in Mumbai, which is one of the largest cities on Earth, and in the middle of Mumbai is a national park called Sanja Gando National Park. I think it's about one hundred square kilometers, so it's a pretty big park. But it's surrounded almost on all sides by the city of Mumbai. Under the cover of darkness at night, many of the leopards will spend the day in the safety of the park, and then under the cover of darkness at night, they'll come out of the park and into the city. They're running down the streets and they're hunting stray dogs, people's chick skins, goats, pigs. It's a really amazing story and actually it's a really cool example of coexistence. There were quite a few attacks kind of early on in this relationship, but the local people have really figured out how to live alongside these leopards, which is a pretty amazing thing. And I think we can certainly learn a lot from the people there about tolerance and living alongside big predators.

So the leopards don't particularly target people.

So the leopards don't particularly target people.

Previously, there were a few attacks, and that was generally on very young children. A lot of the areas where the park meets the city slum areas, and these areas have very poor sanitation. So previously a lot of the children were going into the forest at night to go to the bathroom, and they were bending over to go to the toilet in the dark. And it wasn't that the leopard was like a man eater. It's just a case of mistaken identity if you think a child bent over really small looks just like their kind of more natural wild prey. And so what the local government did, which was brilliant, was they put in much better sanitation, lots of education on don't let your kids go into the forest at night by themselves and all that stuff. And now they live alongside each other. And you know what was really amazing was meeting those people that lived in the slums that literally have nothing, yet they are so tolerant of living alongside these predators. We also spent time with more affluent people that lived in an apartment building right on the border of the park. And I remember we were setting up some cameras on one of the first nights we were there, and this man came down onto the bridge that we were setting up this camera on and he said, what are you doing. Why are you here? And I said, oh, well, we're here to photograph the leopards, and he was like, leopards. I've lived in this apartment building for eleven years and I've never seen a leopard here. There are no leopards here now. Of course, we were working with scientists we knew there were leopards there, but it just goes to show how good these leopards are at staying out of sight and being incredibly elusive. You know, they don't want to be seen, they don't want the trouble. And what was great was that towards the end of the filming shoot, this guy came back and found us and he said, actually, I've been staying up the last few nights to see if you were right, and yeah, I saw a left run past my bedroom window. And he was really excited about it. That's cool, you know, he wasn't going, oh no, I hate leopards. He was really excited about seeing that.

Previously, there were a few attacks, and that was generally on very young children. A lot of the areas where the park meets the city slum areas, and these areas have very poor sanitation. So previously a lot of the children were going into the forest at night to go to the bathroom, and they were bending over to go to the toilet in the dark. And it wasn't that the leopard was like a man eater. It's just a case of mistaken identity if you think a child bent over really small looks just like their kind of more natural wild prey. And so what the local government did, which was brilliant, was they put in much better sanitation, lots of education on don't let your kids go into the forest at night by themselves and all that stuff. And now they live alongside each other. And you know what was really amazing was meeting those people that lived in the slums that literally have nothing, yet they are so tolerant of living alongside these predators. We also spent time with more affluent people that lived in an apartment building right on the border of the park. And I remember we were setting up some cameras on one of the first nights we were there, and this man came down onto the bridge that we were setting up this camera on and he said, what are you doing. Why are you here? And I said, oh, well, we're here to photograph the leopards, and he was like, leopards. I've lived in this apartment building for eleven years and I've never seen a leopard here. There are no leopards here now. Of course, we were working with scientists we knew there were leopards there, but it just goes to show how good these leopards are at staying out of sight and being incredibly elusive. You know, they don't want to be seen, they don't want the trouble. And what was great was that towards the end of the filming shoot, this guy came back and found us and he said, actually, I've been staying up the last few nights to see if you were right, and yeah, I saw a left run past my bedroom window. And he was really excited about it. That's cool, you know, he wasn't going, oh no, I hate leopards. He was really excited about seeing that.

I think I have seen your series on the Wolves of Vancouver Island. Absolutely fascinating series.

I think I have seen your series on the Wolves of Vancouver Island. Absolutely fascinating series.

Oh thanks. Those wolves are pretty amazing because I think when most people think of wolves, they think of places like Yellowstone National Park, Alaska, you know, pax hunting elk and bison. Meanwhile, these wolves, Coastal Wolves of British Columbia. They live on the beach and they get up to ninety percent of their diet from the ocean. They're eating crabs and otters and muscle and very cool animal and they have a.

Oh thanks. Those wolves are pretty amazing because I think when most people think of wolves, they think of places like Yellowstone National Park, Alaska, you know, pax hunting elk and bison. Meanwhile, these wolves, Coastal Wolves of British Columbia. They live on the beach and they get up to ninety percent of their diet from the ocean. They're eating crabs and otters and muscle and very cool animal and they have a.

Very complicated family structure that bonds together. It's really really, really well done.

Very complicated family structure that bonds together. It's really really, really well done.

Oh, thank you, that's very kind. Well, you know, those wolves, like wolves around the US and Canada, just need more protection. I mean, they're fascinating social mammal and of course the challenge in many places with wolves is conflict with livestock. But I think we've kind of forgotten how to live alongside predators, and that goes around the world. And I think those Indian people that I mentioned in Mumbai are a great example of people that have learned to live alongside predators. And that's a very very special thing.

Oh, thank you, that's very kind. Well, you know, those wolves, like wolves around the US and Canada, just need more protection. I mean, they're fascinating social mammal and of course the challenge in many places with wolves is conflict with livestock. But I think we've kind of forgotten how to live alongside predators, and that goes around the world. And I think those Indian people that I mentioned in Mumbai are a great example of people that have learned to live alongside predators. And that's a very very special thing.

Because I understand that you're only thirty and you've done all these things. It's like you could have had a lifetime and done these things. You have a huge career ahead of you.

Because I understand that you're only thirty and you've done all these things. It's like you could have had a lifetime and done these things. You have a huge career ahead of you.

That's very kind. Yeah, I'm not very going to sit still. I don't really do relaxing.

That's very kind. Yeah, I'm not very going to sit still. I don't really do relaxing.

If somebody got excited by all this and they wanted to become a National Geographic photographer, what would you give them.

If somebody got excited by all this and they wanted to become a National Geographic photographer, what would you give them.

I think all too often people's knee jerk reaction to wanting to film wildlife for nash Geographic is, oh, I need a really big, expensive camera, for many people. I understand that's really hard to get your hands on. Like when I was younger, I couldn't get my hands on the camera that I'm using now. But I don't think you need to worry about that, especially when you're starting out, because so much more important than your technical ability with the camera is your knowledge of wildlife and your ability to find animals and get close to them without disturbing them. That's really really important. One because of course we want to film natural behavior, but also because if we're trying to film wildlife and get people excited about wildlife, if we're disturbing the wildlife and the process, then that's just not right. So I'd say working on that, And I've been lucky enough to have lots of mentors, and I've worked with lots of scientists and guides and experts that have kind of trained me with various different animals. But nothing can quite beat firsthand experience. And you get that from just spending time outside in nature. So whether you live in a wild place or in the middle of the city, there are still wild animals to be found inties, and you can learn a lot about the movements of animals and how to track them, and I'd say that's the most important. Of course, technical ability with a camera is important, but we live in this incredible age where we all have a camera, even if that's on your phone. We have access to this free broadcasting platform you know that is YouTube or Instagram, all these social media channels. We have amazing broadcasting capabilities. It's really democratized the industry. And so I'd say, make films, whether that be on your phone or a bigger camera if you have one, and learn to edit, learn to narrate, all of these things. Even if you don't want to be an editor, learning how to edit will make you a better camera person. Make your films, put them on YouTube, put them on Instagram, get feedback. The first ones are we rubbish, and that's fine. You make mistakes and learn and get better.

I think all too often people's knee jerk reaction to wanting to film wildlife for nash Geographic is, oh, I need a really big, expensive camera, for many people. I understand that's really hard to get your hands on. Like when I was younger, I couldn't get my hands on the camera that I'm using now. But I don't think you need to worry about that, especially when you're starting out, because so much more important than your technical ability with the camera is your knowledge of wildlife and your ability to find animals and get close to them without disturbing them. That's really really important. One because of course we want to film natural behavior, but also because if we're trying to film wildlife and get people excited about wildlife, if we're disturbing the wildlife and the process, then that's just not right. So I'd say working on that, And I've been lucky enough to have lots of mentors, and I've worked with lots of scientists and guides and experts that have kind of trained me with various different animals. But nothing can quite beat firsthand experience. And you get that from just spending time outside in nature. So whether you live in a wild place or in the middle of the city, there are still wild animals to be found inties, and you can learn a lot about the movements of animals and how to track them, and I'd say that's the most important. Of course, technical ability with a camera is important, but we live in this incredible age where we all have a camera, even if that's on your phone. We have access to this free broadcasting platform you know that is YouTube or Instagram, all these social media channels. We have amazing broadcasting capabilities. It's really democratized the industry. And so I'd say, make films, whether that be on your phone or a bigger camera if you have one, and learn to edit, learn to narrate, all of these things. Even if you don't want to be an editor, learning how to edit will make you a better camera person. Make your films, put them on YouTube, put them on Instagram, get feedback. The first ones are we rubbish, and that's fine. You make mistakes and learn and get better.

I hope over the you'll come back and join us starting with when you're allowed to talk about the rest of secrets of the penguins. But it's fascinating. As somebody who loves wildlife, I'm thrilled to have this opportunity. I can't encourage too strongly all of our listeners to go to YouTube find the penguins. It's one of the most amazing videos I've ever seen. It's just remarkable. Bertie, I want to thank you for joining me. The work you're doing with National Geographic truly is extraordinary, and I hope you'll come again, maybe next to April. Tell us about Secrets of the Penguins, and then as you do future projects, keep us in mind, because we'd like to sort of keep track of what amazing things you're doing and help publicize them. And I want to encourage our listeners who like to find more amazing Earth moonth content check out our home collection on Disney Plus and they can learn more about the historic penguin leap at NatGeo dot com. Truly remarkable sites, and I'm very grateful that you're here.

I hope over the you'll come back and join us starting with when you're allowed to talk about the rest of secrets of the penguins. But it's fascinating. As somebody who loves wildlife, I'm thrilled to have this opportunity. I can't encourage too strongly all of our listeners to go to YouTube find the penguins. It's one of the most amazing videos I've ever seen. It's just remarkable. Bertie, I want to thank you for joining me. The work you're doing with National Geographic truly is extraordinary, and I hope you'll come again, maybe next to April. Tell us about Secrets of the Penguins, and then as you do future projects, keep us in mind, because we'd like to sort of keep track of what amazing things you're doing and help publicize them. And I want to encourage our listeners who like to find more amazing Earth moonth content check out our home collection on Disney Plus and they can learn more about the historic penguin leap at NatGeo dot com. Truly remarkable sites, and I'm very grateful that you're here.

Wow. Thanks very much for having me. Great to chat with you, and I should say if anyone is interested in my work with Nasty Gaffe, you can also follow me on Instagram. It's at Bertie Gregory or TikTok if you're on that and on that fun staff.

Wow. Thanks very much for having me. Great to chat with you, and I should say if anyone is interested in my work with Nasty Gaffe, you can also follow me on Instagram. It's at Bertie Gregory or TikTok if you're on that and on that fun staff.

Thank you to my guest Bertie Gregory. You can watch the video of the Emperor Penguins on our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gagrish, Sweet sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnzi Slow. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley special thanks to the team of Gingerishweet sixty. If you've been enjoying nuts World, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of neut World can sign up for my three free weekly columns at gaglichswe sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. This is newts World.

Thank you to my guest Bertie Gregory. You can watch the video of the Emperor Penguins on our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gagrish, Sweet sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnzi Slow. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley special thanks to the team of Gingerishweet sixty. If you've been enjoying nuts World, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of neut World can sign up for my three free weekly columns at gaglichswe sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. This is newts World.