On this episode of Newtsworld. In his new book Blood Money, Peter Schweizer and his team of forensic investigators spent more than two years scouring a trove of restricted Chinese military documents, data mining a mountain of American financial records, and tracking US political leaders, investments, and family businesses. Schweitzer unloads bombshell after bombshell, exposing the Chinese Communist Party's covert operations in social media, the American drug trade, social justice movement, and the medical establishment to sow chaos in the United States. Here to talk about his new book, Blood Money. I am really pleased to welcome back my guest and good friend, Peter Schweitzer. He is the president of the Government Accountability Institute and the former William J. Casey Fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. Peter, welcome and thank you for joining me again on NEWTS World.

On this episode of Newtsworld. In his new book Blood Money, Peter Schweizer and his team of forensic investigators spent more than two years scouring a trove of restricted Chinese military documents, data mining a mountain of American financial records, and tracking US political leaders, investments, and family businesses. Schweitzer unloads bombshell after bombshell, exposing the Chinese Communist Party's covert operations in social media, the American drug trade, social justice movement, and the medical establishment to sow chaos in the United States. Here to talk about his new book, Blood Money. I am really pleased to welcome back my guest and good friend, Peter Schweitzer. He is the president of the Government Accountability Institute and the former William J. Casey Fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. Peter, welcome and thank you for joining me again on NEWTS World.

Great to be with you. New to Zoeys, thanks for having.

Great to be with you. New to Zoeys, thanks for having.

Me, and I have to congratulate you. Blood Money is number one on the New York Times Hardcover Nonfiction bestseller list this week. That's quite an achievement.

Me, and I have to congratulate you. Blood Money is number one on the New York Times Hardcover Nonfiction bestseller list this week. That's quite an achievement.

Well, thank you, thank you new I just think it shows American people are concerned about their country and they think this topic is important, and I share that view obviously.

Well, thank you, thank you new I just think it shows American people are concerned about their country and they think this topic is important, and I share that view obviously.

Well, I want to start with something which is very current, which is I want to get your take on the House vote on Wednesday passing a bill that would force TikTok's Chinese owner, Byte Edance, to either sell the app or be banned in the United States. You talk about TikTok's relationship to the Chinese Commanist Party and blood money, and then, as you know, the House voted three fifty two to sixty five, and you had a huge buy bipartisan vote, but several Republicans and Democrats did express their opposition to the bill based on free speech concerns. What's your general reaction.

Well, I want to start with something which is very current, which is I want to get your take on the House vote on Wednesday passing a bill that would force TikTok's Chinese owner, Byte Edance, to either sell the app or be banned in the United States. You talk about TikTok's relationship to the Chinese Commanist Party and blood money, and then, as you know, the House voted three fifty two to sixty five, and you had a huge buy bipartisan vote, but several Republicans and Democrats did express their opposition to the bill based on free speech concerns. What's your general reaction.

I'm very, very supportive of the bill. It certainly doesn't solve all the problems, but it solves some of them. The bottom line is is that the Chinese Communist Party believes and knows that TikTok is a powerful tool to steer the conversation and manipulate young people in the United States. I quote in the book Chinese military officials calling it the ultimate trojan horse, and the Chinese officials at by Dancing and the government talk openly about how it is a powerful tool to manipulate young people. So there's no question the threat that it represents, and it seems to me the only solution here is to get this out of the control of the CCP.

I'm very, very supportive of the bill. It certainly doesn't solve all the problems, but it solves some of them. The bottom line is is that the Chinese Communist Party believes and knows that TikTok is a powerful tool to steer the conversation and manipulate young people in the United States. I quote in the book Chinese military officials calling it the ultimate trojan horse, and the Chinese officials at by Dancing and the government talk openly about how it is a powerful tool to manipulate young people. So there's no question the threat that it represents, and it seems to me the only solution here is to get this out of the control of the CCP.

Given Facebook and Google and everything else we've had in this country, why do you think TikTok took off so decisively. I think something like one hundred and seventy million Americans use TikTok.

Given Facebook and Google and everything else we've had in this country, why do you think TikTok took off so decisively. I think something like one hundred and seventy million Americans use TikTok.

Yeah, two things new. The first thing is that it really exploded because of the pandemic. So the pandemic a lot of people were sitting around board. The short video platform by design is highly addictive. That's part of the appeal of the algorithm. But the second thing I would say is that I discussed this in the book. When byt Dance unrolled TikTok, they explicitly marketed it to young people as a parent free zone. But the nature of the TikTok platform is such that it's not like Facebook or Twitter now x, where other people can see the same feed that you're getting, or somebody can friend you to see what you're posting. The anonymous nature of this platform TikTok and the fact that each person gets a unique feed appealed to young people, and in fact, Byke Dance pitched it as a parent free zone, so I think that's the other reason it really took off. It's enormously popular, particularly among young people in America, and that is partly by design by this Chinese company.

Yeah, two things new. The first thing is that it really exploded because of the pandemic. So the pandemic a lot of people were sitting around board. The short video platform by design is highly addictive. That's part of the appeal of the algorithm. But the second thing I would say is that I discussed this in the book. When byt Dance unrolled TikTok, they explicitly marketed it to young people as a parent free zone. But the nature of the TikTok platform is such that it's not like Facebook or Twitter now x, where other people can see the same feed that you're getting, or somebody can friend you to see what you're posting. The anonymous nature of this platform TikTok and the fact that each person gets a unique feed appealed to young people, and in fact, Byke Dance pitched it as a parent free zone, so I think that's the other reason it really took off. It's enormously popular, particularly among young people in America, and that is partly by design by this Chinese company.

Which frankly shows a pretty sophisticated level of awareness on their part that they could launch something like this, and in a world that has Apple and Microsoft and Facebook, et cetera, they've been pretty formidable competitors.

Which frankly shows a pretty sophisticated level of awareness on their part that they could launch something like this, and in a world that has Apple and Microsoft and Facebook, et cetera, they've been pretty formidable competitors.

They have, and it's really the algorithm that is so powerful in essentially being able to predict what people want to see. The problem is is that this algorithm is potent commercially, but the Chinese state has actually designated it as a state secret, so it's not only just a corporate secret, it's a state secret. And there's a lot of work that by Dance, the parent company, does with the Chinese Ministry of State Security on the whole issue of manipulating people online. That's the explicit part of their research. So there's a lot of effort that goes into this, not just by byt Dance, but by the Chinese government as well.

They have, and it's really the algorithm that is so powerful in essentially being able to predict what people want to see. The problem is is that this algorithm is potent commercially, but the Chinese state has actually designated it as a state secret, so it's not only just a corporate secret, it's a state secret. And there's a lot of work that by Dance, the parent company, does with the Chinese Ministry of State Security on the whole issue of manipulating people online. That's the explicit part of their research. So there's a lot of effort that goes into this, not just by byt Dance, but by the Chinese government as well.

So what are the prospects if this bill also passes the Senate and President Biden has already said that he would sign it, what are the prospects of the Chinese simply refuse to sell it and close it down.

So what are the prospects if this bill also passes the Senate and President Biden has already said that he would sign it, what are the prospects of the Chinese simply refuse to sell it and close it down.

Then I think it probably will be shut down. I think you're quite right to emphasize that China does not want to give up this tool. They see it as a powerful tool. My position is that we should have reciprocity with China if we allow them to have these kinds of ownerships of media outlets in the United States, and TikTok is really the premier media outlet for people under the age of forty in the United States. We ought to have the same access to their market. They're certainly not going to give that to us. I think it's going to be interesting to see what happens in the Senate. I think there's going to be mounting opposition. TikTok is rallying the forces in terms of lobbying, et cetera. And honestly, call me a cynic, but I'm not sure that Joe Biden really wants to sign this bill. I feel like he has to say that he will sign the bill, but his real hope is that this thing is going to die in the Senate.

Then I think it probably will be shut down. I think you're quite right to emphasize that China does not want to give up this tool. They see it as a powerful tool. My position is that we should have reciprocity with China if we allow them to have these kinds of ownerships of media outlets in the United States, and TikTok is really the premier media outlet for people under the age of forty in the United States. We ought to have the same access to their market. They're certainly not going to give that to us. I think it's going to be interesting to see what happens in the Senate. I think there's going to be mounting opposition. TikTok is rallying the forces in terms of lobbying, et cetera. And honestly, call me a cynic, but I'm not sure that Joe Biden really wants to sign this bill. I feel like he has to say that he will sign the bill, but his real hope is that this thing is going to die in the Senate.

And given the size of the majority in the House, do you think there'll be enough fear of China pressure that the Senate will feel compelled to pass it.

And given the size of the majority in the House, do you think there'll be enough fear of China pressure that the Senate will feel compelled to pass it.

I think it's really going to come down to the leadership on both sides, the Democrat leadership and then also Mitch McConnell in the Senate. You know, McConnell of course is going to be giving up his mantle of leadership. But as I've highlighted before, I mean, there's a lot of things that I think Mitch McConnell has done well as a leader. But there is this entanglement with a family business in China. Essentially, if Mitch McConnell were to do something to really offend China, and I would say supporting this TikTok bill would be it. The Chinese government could destroy the Chow family business overnight, and that would mean a heavy, heavy financial cost to Mitch McConnell and his wife. So I think it's really going to come down to leadership. This is an odd series of coalitions for and against this bill. You have in the House, and I think in the Senate you're going to see the same thing. Some of the more libertarian members of the Senate, people like Rand Paul, who I agree with on a lot of issues, but I think, has taken sort of an absolutist position that the government should not break up this company, and I think that's just an unrealistic look at what this threat really represents. On the other hand, you have people on the left who are perhaps not as concerned about China as you might consider, but the concern about big tech in general, and they see this as an opportunity to try to deal with it. So odd coalitions on both sides. I'm hoping the Senate will take it up and it will pass, but there's going to be a lot of twists and turns. I think before that happens.

I think it's really going to come down to the leadership on both sides, the Democrat leadership and then also Mitch McConnell in the Senate. You know, McConnell of course is going to be giving up his mantle of leadership. But as I've highlighted before, I mean, there's a lot of things that I think Mitch McConnell has done well as a leader. But there is this entanglement with a family business in China. Essentially, if Mitch McConnell were to do something to really offend China, and I would say supporting this TikTok bill would be it. The Chinese government could destroy the Chow family business overnight, and that would mean a heavy, heavy financial cost to Mitch McConnell and his wife. So I think it's really going to come down to leadership. This is an odd series of coalitions for and against this bill. You have in the House, and I think in the Senate you're going to see the same thing. Some of the more libertarian members of the Senate, people like Rand Paul, who I agree with on a lot of issues, but I think, has taken sort of an absolutist position that the government should not break up this company, and I think that's just an unrealistic look at what this threat really represents. On the other hand, you have people on the left who are perhaps not as concerned about China as you might consider, but the concern about big tech in general, and they see this as an opportunity to try to deal with it. So odd coalitions on both sides. I'm hoping the Senate will take it up and it will pass, but there's going to be a lot of twists and turns. I think before that happens.

It's impossible to have a significant firm in China that is not acceptable to the Chinese Communist Party. It's just literally impossible. And so you have something like one hundred and thirty Communist Party members who hold management positions at bite Dens. You have the content review mostly are communist Chinese Communist members, and you go down this list twenty four of the employees that buy Dance and TikTok worked at the People's Daily, which is the official mouthpiece of the Chinese Communist Party. It seems to me as a national security matter, this shouldn't be a complicated issue.

It's impossible to have a significant firm in China that is not acceptable to the Chinese Communist Party. It's just literally impossible. And so you have something like one hundred and thirty Communist Party members who hold management positions at bite Dens. You have the content review mostly are communist Chinese Communist members, and you go down this list twenty four of the employees that buy Dance and TikTok worked at the People's Daily, which is the official mouthpiece of the Chinese Communist Party. It seems to me as a national security matter, this shouldn't be a complicated issue.

No, I don't think it is. I mean, look By Dance, its offices are not far from the Ministry of State Security. They do joint research with the Ministry of State Security. They have ties to other parts of the Chinese government. The notion that we are going to give this company unfetter access to young people in America is patently absurd. And you know, when you go through and look at how the Chinese think about this. I quote from military officials and people from the Ministry of Propaganda some of the internal documents where they discuss this, they lay it out explicitly how they use this to in effect deconstruct young people in America, to get them to reject their historic pass to reject national symbols, because by doing so, you can break them down and you can inculcate your own values into them. And keep in mind that the head of editorial content for Bye Dance, which of course controls TikTok, the head of editorial control at by Dance happens to be the head of the Chinese Communist Party sell at by Dance, so we know what kind of editorial position that they're going to take. And to me, if this is not a red line that has been crossed, I don't know what the red line would be. So I will be absolutely staggered if there isn't a consensus forge that this bill doesn't pass.

No, I don't think it is. I mean, look By Dance, its offices are not far from the Ministry of State Security. They do joint research with the Ministry of State Security. They have ties to other parts of the Chinese government. The notion that we are going to give this company unfetter access to young people in America is patently absurd. And you know, when you go through and look at how the Chinese think about this. I quote from military officials and people from the Ministry of Propaganda some of the internal documents where they discuss this, they lay it out explicitly how they use this to in effect deconstruct young people in America, to get them to reject their historic pass to reject national symbols, because by doing so, you can break them down and you can inculcate your own values into them. And keep in mind that the head of editorial content for Bye Dance, which of course controls TikTok, the head of editorial control at by Dance happens to be the head of the Chinese Communist Party sell at by Dance, so we know what kind of editorial position that they're going to take. And to me, if this is not a red line that has been crossed, I don't know what the red line would be. So I will be absolutely staggered if there isn't a consensus forge that this bill doesn't pass.

How hard technically would it be to build a parallel algorithm if TikTok disappeared.

How hard technically would it be to build a parallel algorithm if TikTok disappeared.

I don't think it'd be difficult. I think that some of the other companies that are out there have set up competitors, things like re. These are short video platforms, but they're not as potent as what ByteDance does. They're not as good, and what the byte Dance algorithm has always been about has been about addiction. ByteDance has recognized this from early on. That's why in China they don't have TikTok, but they have an equivalent. It's called Doyon. Doyon after two hours get shuts off. You are not allowed to watch it continuously. That restriction on the product in the United States doesn't apply. So yeah, you can develop algorithms, but the algorithm has to be designed perfectly, but it also needs to learn by the amount of data. And what ByteDance has such a head start on is it has billions of users around the world and it feeds this algorithm fine tunes the algorithm. So whatever is out there competing against it is probably not going to be as good. But look at the end of the day, I think, especially with the US investors involved, if this bill passes, is they're going to try to save the company by selling it to somebody in the United States, because otherwise these investors all lose their money. There's nothing left. TikTok has been banned in India, they lost hundreds of millions of users there. If it's banned in the United States, this product has lost its luster and its value. So I think they're going to try to save it in some form.

I don't think it'd be difficult. I think that some of the other companies that are out there have set up competitors, things like re. These are short video platforms, but they're not as potent as what ByteDance does. They're not as good, and what the byte Dance algorithm has always been about has been about addiction. ByteDance has recognized this from early on. That's why in China they don't have TikTok, but they have an equivalent. It's called Doyon. Doyon after two hours get shuts off. You are not allowed to watch it continuously. That restriction on the product in the United States doesn't apply. So yeah, you can develop algorithms, but the algorithm has to be designed perfectly, but it also needs to learn by the amount of data. And what ByteDance has such a head start on is it has billions of users around the world and it feeds this algorithm fine tunes the algorithm. So whatever is out there competing against it is probably not going to be as good. But look at the end of the day, I think, especially with the US investors involved, if this bill passes, is they're going to try to save the company by selling it to somebody in the United States, because otherwise these investors all lose their money. There's nothing left. TikTok has been banned in India, they lost hundreds of millions of users there. If it's banned in the United States, this product has lost its luster and its value. So I think they're going to try to save it in some form.

And none of those investors are American.

And none of those investors are American.

Right, Yes they are. It's big investment firms like Carlisle Group has a steak. Jeff Yass who's a big investor in Pennsylvania, has a large steak. The estimates there are his stake could be worth fifty billion dollars, so there's a lot of money at stake. I certainly understand people have invested in a commercial venture. The problem is is, if you deal with China, you're going to have to expect that there's going to be these kinds of situations arise. If you're an investor in a Chinese company and you besmirch or criticize that company, they can actually take your ownership shares away. So they had to know going in that there were risks in these investments. I think their best solution, rather than fighting this bill is to recognize that at least with this bill, they have an opportunity to make money by having this app sold to an American company, and maybe the Americans can retain their ownership stake. I don't see why not.

Right, Yes they are. It's big investment firms like Carlisle Group has a steak. Jeff Yass who's a big investor in Pennsylvania, has a large steak. The estimates there are his stake could be worth fifty billion dollars, so there's a lot of money at stake. I certainly understand people have invested in a commercial venture. The problem is is, if you deal with China, you're going to have to expect that there's going to be these kinds of situations arise. If you're an investor in a Chinese company and you besmirch or criticize that company, they can actually take your ownership shares away. So they had to know going in that there were risks in these investments. I think their best solution, rather than fighting this bill is to recognize that at least with this bill, they have an opportunity to make money by having this app sold to an American company, and maybe the Americans can retain their ownership stake. I don't see why not.

Yeah, I mean it's probably conceivable tho it could be turned over to the people who've already invested in it.

Yeah, I mean it's probably conceivable tho it could be turned over to the people who've already invested in it.

Yes, that's exactly right.

Yes, that's exactly right.

There's the concept of cognitive warfare. This is so different than the Western way of war. Can you sort of walk us through what do the Chinese mean when they talk about cognitive warfare?

There's the concept of cognitive warfare. This is so different than the Western way of war. Can you sort of walk us through what do the Chinese mean when they talk about cognitive warfare?

Well, their view of warfare with the United States is very different than our concepts. They don't think exclusively or even largely in terms of a kinetic war, that is, a war with missiles and tanks and people shooting at each other. They view it more holistically as a battle between the intellectual and creative power of China versus the United States, and so they call their strategy towards US disintegration warfare. This is based on a book published in twenty ten. President g has embraced it, and part of disintegration warfare. The name applies, of course, that they're seeking to disintegrate or fragment the United States. A subset of that is the cognitive war which is to essentially dumb down and weaken the intellectual capacity of the United States. And this includes several facets. One of those, of course, is TikTok. The TikTok that we have is basically cotton candy. It's girls in blue hair screaming about one issue or the other. The equivalent in China, Douyon is really about engineering culture history. It's a much more serious app So that's part of the cognitive warfare, but it also includes other elements as well. There's a huge problem in the United States right now with illegal marijuana growth that are taking place. These are illegal operations from California to the state of Maine that are growing highly potent marijuana illegally. And the stunning reality is, according to law enforcement, ninety five percent of these operations are run by Chinese nationals that are oftentimes illegally in the country. They get investment capital from China and then they run these operations. They view marijuana and particularly this potent marijuana that they grow, as another form of cognitive warfare that sort of dumbs down Americans, and of course they make money along the way. So it's a huge problem and we need to wake up. We need to have a strong military, but we need to recognize China does not mean to have a shooting war with the United States. They believe that they can defeat us without actually having to fight.

Well, their view of warfare with the United States is very different than our concepts. They don't think exclusively or even largely in terms of a kinetic war, that is, a war with missiles and tanks and people shooting at each other. They view it more holistically as a battle between the intellectual and creative power of China versus the United States, and so they call their strategy towards US disintegration warfare. This is based on a book published in twenty ten. President g has embraced it, and part of disintegration warfare. The name applies, of course, that they're seeking to disintegrate or fragment the United States. A subset of that is the cognitive war which is to essentially dumb down and weaken the intellectual capacity of the United States. And this includes several facets. One of those, of course, is TikTok. The TikTok that we have is basically cotton candy. It's girls in blue hair screaming about one issue or the other. The equivalent in China, Douyon is really about engineering culture history. It's a much more serious app So that's part of the cognitive warfare, but it also includes other elements as well. There's a huge problem in the United States right now with illegal marijuana growth that are taking place. These are illegal operations from California to the state of Maine that are growing highly potent marijuana illegally. And the stunning reality is, according to law enforcement, ninety five percent of these operations are run by Chinese nationals that are oftentimes illegally in the country. They get investment capital from China and then they run these operations. They view marijuana and particularly this potent marijuana that they grow, as another form of cognitive warfare that sort of dumbs down Americans, and of course they make money along the way. So it's a huge problem and we need to wake up. We need to have a strong military, but we need to recognize China does not mean to have a shooting war with the United States. They believe that they can defeat us without actually having to fight.

Part of what they talk about is the whole concept of information driven mental warfare, and part of that. I was intrigued with the point you made, which is China's role in the video game industry. I mean, you wouldn't even think of this normally, but talk briefly about the whole concept of ten Cent in the way in which they've moved into video games.

Part of what they talk about is the whole concept of information driven mental warfare, and part of that. I was intrigued with the point you made, which is China's role in the video game industry. I mean, you wouldn't even think of this normally, but talk briefly about the whole concept of ten Cent in the way in which they've moved into video games.

Yeah, it's pretty startling. I don't play video games, but I certainly have people in my life that do and enjoy it. China has invested in more than eight hundred video game companies in the West, and these include the companies that are producing the most popular games out there. That comes with a price, though these investment dollars influence the theme and the elements of the story in a way that resonates with the CCP. So what that means is that they like games that highlight the strengths of China and the weakness or the failing power of the United States. And it's not blatant, it's oftentimes very very subtle, but it's an important component of what they view are these cultural products. That includes TikTok, that includes video games. It also includes movies, animated movies, and live action movies from Hollywood, and these cultural products they view as important weapons that are shaping the view that younger people around the world and the United States have towards the CCP. You see that in video games, you see that in movies. You can look at a movie like there was a move a few years ago called The Martian with Matt Damon where he's an astronaut and American astronaut trapped on Mars. Well, that film was partly financed by the Chinese. And if you remember what was the story, how did this American trapped on Mars get rescued? He got rescued by NASA. But NASA got special technology from China. That's how they were able to rescue this stranded American. And you see that repeated over and over and over again. Maybe in an isolated case, it's not a big deal, but if you're a young person and you continually see this theme of China superiority, American corruption and laziness, you start to believe that the future does reside with China, not with the United States.

Yeah, it's pretty startling. I don't play video games, but I certainly have people in my life that do and enjoy it. China has invested in more than eight hundred video game companies in the West, and these include the companies that are producing the most popular games out there. That comes with a price, though these investment dollars influence the theme and the elements of the story in a way that resonates with the CCP. So what that means is that they like games that highlight the strengths of China and the weakness or the failing power of the United States. And it's not blatant, it's oftentimes very very subtle, but it's an important component of what they view are these cultural products. That includes TikTok, that includes video games. It also includes movies, animated movies, and live action movies from Hollywood, and these cultural products they view as important weapons that are shaping the view that younger people around the world and the United States have towards the CCP. You see that in video games, you see that in movies. You can look at a movie like there was a move a few years ago called The Martian with Matt Damon where he's an astronaut and American astronaut trapped on Mars. Well, that film was partly financed by the Chinese. And if you remember what was the story, how did this American trapped on Mars get rescued? He got rescued by NASA. But NASA got special technology from China. That's how they were able to rescue this stranded American. And you see that repeated over and over and over again. Maybe in an isolated case, it's not a big deal, but if you're a young person and you continually see this theme of China superiority, American corruption and laziness, you start to believe that the future does reside with China, not with the United States.

There's also an information gathering about you as a person. So the games you play, the things you value, combined with what you learn off of TikTok, they're acquiring a huge database of individual Americans on a scale that in our country would be illegal.

There's also an information gathering about you as a person. So the games you play, the things you value, combined with what you learn off of TikTok, they're acquiring a huge database of individual Americans on a scale that in our country would be illegal.

Yes, that's exactly right. And to your point about video games, a lot of people that do gaming now they do gaming in groups as a team, but the team members are somewhere else that are in a different city or a different state, and they communicate through these headsets with voice communications. Well, guess what, these game companies certainly can gather all that information, collect all that information. They now have a very nice voice imprint of you. You may be sharing personal information as you're talking to people on these game platforms. So yeah, the collection of data is an enormous problem. Of course, you play a lot of these online games. You're giving credit card information so you can get game updates, etc. All of this is going to these companies, and even if it's a US based company. The agreements include that the Chinese investors in these companies get access to the data under the guys that it helps them improve the product. But once it's shared with China, of course, now you can assume that it's going to be shared with the Chinese state.

Yes, that's exactly right. And to your point about video games, a lot of people that do gaming now they do gaming in groups as a team, but the team members are somewhere else that are in a different city or a different state, and they communicate through these headsets with voice communications. Well, guess what, these game companies certainly can gather all that information, collect all that information. They now have a very nice voice imprint of you. You may be sharing personal information as you're talking to people on these game platforms. So yeah, the collection of data is an enormous problem. Of course, you play a lot of these online games. You're giving credit card information so you can get game updates, etc. All of this is going to these companies, and even if it's a US based company. The agreements include that the Chinese investors in these companies get access to the data under the guys that it helps them improve the product. But once it's shared with China, of course, now you can assume that it's going to be shared with the Chinese state.

You use a term that the Chinese communists see video games as national cultural exports. Again, this whole notion of non kinetic warfare competition by non military means the idea that you would create video games is a national cultural export, I think is fascinating. Of course, then it's the opposite of the American left. You couldn't today create an American game. Say about George Washington, as a noble leader because the American left would go crazy.

You use a term that the Chinese communists see video games as national cultural exports. Again, this whole notion of non kinetic warfare competition by non military means the idea that you would create video games is a national cultural export, I think is fascinating. Of course, then it's the opposite of the American left. You couldn't today create an American game. Say about George Washington, as a noble leader because the American left would go crazy.

That's right. You know, there is a certain sense that you have to respect that China is proudly pushing faith in their system and their belief system. The problem is, of course, we know how dangerous and how many people have suffered under that system, but you have to give them credit. They're confident about it, they push it, they demand it, And the problem is is that people in our entertainment industry, whether it's the video game industry or Hollywood, are prepared to pay along because they're getting access to capital, they're getting access to the Chinese market oftentimes, and it really does put us at a disadvantage. President g himself has emphasized repeatedly how important these cultural products are and how they will serve to sort of disconnect young people in the West from their historical knowledge of their own country and disconnect them from respect or embracing the national symbols that young people have in the West. And all you have to do is look at where the tide is turning culturally in the United States and believe that a they're very pleased with that, and b that their cultural export efforts are working quite well, you.

That's right. You know, there is a certain sense that you have to respect that China is proudly pushing faith in their system and their belief system. The problem is, of course, we know how dangerous and how many people have suffered under that system, but you have to give them credit. They're confident about it, they push it, they demand it, And the problem is is that people in our entertainment industry, whether it's the video game industry or Hollywood, are prepared to pay along because they're getting access to capital, they're getting access to the Chinese market oftentimes, and it really does put us at a disadvantage. President g himself has emphasized repeatedly how important these cultural products are and how they will serve to sort of disconnect young people in the West from their historical knowledge of their own country and disconnect them from respect or embracing the national symbols that young people have in the West. And all you have to do is look at where the tide is turning culturally in the United States and believe that a they're very pleased with that, and b that their cultural export efforts are working quite well, you.

Point out in your book that of the one hundred highest grossing movies released between twenty fourteen and eighteen forty one had Chinese investors. But in addition, in order to get access to the Chinese market, you have to make sure your movie is approvable. I think in the second version of Top Gun they actually had to take off a Taiwanese flag those on an air force jacket because it offended the Chinese Communists.

Point out in your book that of the one hundred highest grossing movies released between twenty fourteen and eighteen forty one had Chinese investors. But in addition, in order to get access to the Chinese market, you have to make sure your movie is approvable. I think in the second version of Top Gun they actually had to take off a Taiwanese flag those on an air force jacket because it offended the Chinese Communists.

Yes they did, and you can even look at children's programming. So Steven Spielberg and Jeffrey Katzenberg with Amblin Entertainment and DreamWorks struck a deal with the Chinese for investments and access to the Chinese market. And all you have to do is look at the progression of the animated movies that have been made. Kung Fu Panda one to two and three. The first two were American funded, and the themes of those films were good. It was about elevating yourself as an individual by embracing character and hard work and improving yourself and having confidence and belief in yourself. Really good themes for young people to hear. When you get to Kung Fu Panda three, which is partly financed by China, which gives them veto power over the script. That theme changes entirely Kung Fu Panda three. Essentially there's a people's revolt. It's no longer focused on the panda trying to improve himself, make himself better so he can help other people. Kung Fu Panda three is about a people's revolt against the overlords. And that is I think because of the source of this funding. And you see this theme over and over again in some of the Transformer movies, where it's China that comes to the rest. It's the Chinese officials that are well motivated in earnest and the American officials that are corrupt and self serving. That theme is repeated over and over again. And you know, you could say, well, it's not a big deal. I think it's a big deal because it shapes the way that people, especially young people, see their own culture, see their own country, and see their own leaders. And if they are being fed a diet which is always embracing and upholding the CCP and criticizing America, that is absolutely going to have a powerful cultural effect. And I think we're already starting to see that.

Yes they did, and you can even look at children's programming. So Steven Spielberg and Jeffrey Katzenberg with Amblin Entertainment and DreamWorks struck a deal with the Chinese for investments and access to the Chinese market. And all you have to do is look at the progression of the animated movies that have been made. Kung Fu Panda one to two and three. The first two were American funded, and the themes of those films were good. It was about elevating yourself as an individual by embracing character and hard work and improving yourself and having confidence and belief in yourself. Really good themes for young people to hear. When you get to Kung Fu Panda three, which is partly financed by China, which gives them veto power over the script. That theme changes entirely Kung Fu Panda three. Essentially there's a people's revolt. It's no longer focused on the panda trying to improve himself, make himself better so he can help other people. Kung Fu Panda three is about a people's revolt against the overlords. And that is I think because of the source of this funding. And you see this theme over and over again in some of the Transformer movies, where it's China that comes to the rest. It's the Chinese officials that are well motivated in earnest and the American officials that are corrupt and self serving. That theme is repeated over and over again. And you know, you could say, well, it's not a big deal. I think it's a big deal because it shapes the way that people, especially young people, see their own culture, see their own country, and see their own leaders. And if they are being fed a diet which is always embracing and upholding the CCP and criticizing America, that is absolutely going to have a powerful cultural effect. And I think we're already starting to see that.

In Blood Money you right. I think this is a very sobering quote that I wish every member of Congress understood. Many people fear that a war with China may be coming, but the war is already here. Now what war are you describing.

In Blood Money you right. I think this is a very sobering quote that I wish every member of Congress understood. Many people fear that a war with China may be coming, but the war is already here. Now what war are you describing.

I'm describing the disintegration warfare that's taking place. And it's not just in the realm of these cultural products. It actually includes the dying and the death of Americans. And I believe that China is responsible for those. If you look at fentanyl, for example, much of the focuses on the Mexican drug cartels. I think I explain clearly the fact that the drug cartels are really the junior partners here. This is a Chinese operation from head to tail. They are the senior partners. It's not just that they provide the precursors that come from China. They provide all the infrastructure. There are two thousand Chinese nationals just south of the US border in Mexico that help the cartels turn these precursors into fentanyl. When these drug cartels produce the pills that are poisoning people that look like a vicodin or look like an adderall that are laced with fentanyl. Those pill presses came from China, and according to our Department of Homeland Security, China sells those to the drug cartels at cost. This is not a price gouging operation. The communication devices that the cartels use to evade US law enforcement, they use Chinese apps and Chinese communication devices because they know that Beijing will not share those with US law enforcement. And then the final element of it, which is the money laundering. These drug cartels for so long launder their money in Latin American banks. Today, in the era of fentanyl, they launder their money in Chinese state owned banks, and according to our government, they often use Chinese students in the United States on education visas to do the laundering for them. So this is a Chinese operation. The drug cartels are a junior partner, and this is an example of the kind of war that we are already in. This is now the leading cause of death people under the age of forty five in the country.

I'm describing the disintegration warfare that's taking place. And it's not just in the realm of these cultural products. It actually includes the dying and the death of Americans. And I believe that China is responsible for those. If you look at fentanyl, for example, much of the focuses on the Mexican drug cartels. I think I explain clearly the fact that the drug cartels are really the junior partners here. This is a Chinese operation from head to tail. They are the senior partners. It's not just that they provide the precursors that come from China. They provide all the infrastructure. There are two thousand Chinese nationals just south of the US border in Mexico that help the cartels turn these precursors into fentanyl. When these drug cartels produce the pills that are poisoning people that look like a vicodin or look like an adderall that are laced with fentanyl. Those pill presses came from China, and according to our Department of Homeland Security, China sells those to the drug cartels at cost. This is not a price gouging operation. The communication devices that the cartels use to evade US law enforcement, they use Chinese apps and Chinese communication devices because they know that Beijing will not share those with US law enforcement. And then the final element of it, which is the money laundering. These drug cartels for so long launder their money in Latin American banks. Today, in the era of fentanyl, they launder their money in Chinese state owned banks, and according to our government, they often use Chinese students in the United States on education visas to do the laundering for them. So this is a Chinese operation. The drug cartels are a junior partner, and this is an example of the kind of war that we are already in. This is now the leading cause of death people under the age of forty five in the country.

You also point out that the triads, which are the historic Chinese organized crime systems, actually in nineteen eighty two made an agreement with the Chinese Communist Party and in effect the triads are a major component of trying to get drugs in the United States and trying to undermine American culture.

You also point out that the triads, which are the historic Chinese organized crime systems, actually in nineteen eighty two made an agreement with the Chinese Communist Party and in effect the triads are a major component of trying to get drugs in the United States and trying to undermine American culture.

Yeah, so is a bargain struck by Deng Chao Ping and some of the Triad leaders in nineteen eighty two, Deng Chaoping said, as long as you are patriotic by what he means is support the CCP, we will let you operate freely in the West. Just don't sell your drugs in China and be loyal to the CCP. And so that bargain was struck. And if you look at President Ji today, he is the personification of that his development politically. The area that he served the longest time in the CCP apparatus was in Fujian Province, and Fujian Province is the epicenter of Chinese organized crime activity. And when he was there, there were numerous organized crime figures that were wanted by US federal authorities for crimes like murder for hire, drug distribution, etc. Who fled to Fujian Province, where then Ji Jingping gave them protection and became friends with them. In fact, the Fujian Province Airport, believe it or not, was privatized and owned by these organized crime syndicates. Center President Gi So they see these organized crime elements as a powerful tool to advance their agenda. And of course the triads like this relationship because China gives them now a safe base of operation.

Yeah, so is a bargain struck by Deng Chao Ping and some of the Triad leaders in nineteen eighty two, Deng Chaoping said, as long as you are patriotic by what he means is support the CCP, we will let you operate freely in the West. Just don't sell your drugs in China and be loyal to the CCP. And so that bargain was struck. And if you look at President Ji today, he is the personification of that his development politically. The area that he served the longest time in the CCP apparatus was in Fujian Province, and Fujian Province is the epicenter of Chinese organized crime activity. And when he was there, there were numerous organized crime figures that were wanted by US federal authorities for crimes like murder for hire, drug distribution, etc. Who fled to Fujian Province, where then Ji Jingping gave them protection and became friends with them. In fact, the Fujian Province Airport, believe it or not, was privatized and owned by these organized crime syndicates. Center President Gi So they see these organized crime elements as a powerful tool to advance their agenda. And of course the triads like this relationship because China gives them now a safe base of operation.

Why is it so hard for the American government to recognize that? You make the point that in late twenty twenty two, the Biden administration names twenty two countries as transit points for drugs or producers of drugs, but does enlist China.

Why is it so hard for the American government to recognize that? You make the point that in late twenty twenty two, the Biden administration names twenty two countries as transit points for drugs or producers of drugs, but does enlist China.

Yeah, what does all of this tell you? Well, I think there's a couple of things that work here, nude. I think part of it is you've got a larger bureaucracy that realizes once you sort of finger China as being involved in this drug trade at the State Department, their job suddenly becomes a lot harder. So I think you have just some bureaucratic inertia. But more specifically to the Biden administration, let's be clear what the exact financial ties are here. You and I have talked about before our research about the Biden's receiving millions of dollars from China. Consider the fact that in twenty seventeen, the Biden family received and they don't dispute this they received a five million dollar interest free forgivable loan that they've never paid back from a Chinese businessman who was business partners with a gentleman named Jean an Lo who also goes by the name White Wolf, who's the head of a criminal gang UBG that set up the Sinaloa cartel and made them the kings of Fentanyl. Everybody acknowledges this is the criminal gang that set them up. So what that means is you have basically one degree of separation between the Biden family and these criminal gangs. It's in the form of this businessman who loaned them five million dollars in twenty seventeen. So when you ask yourself, does Joe Biden want to have a conversation does he want to call out the Chinese criminal gangs involved in this activity? I don't think he does, and I think a big part of the reason is because of these financial entanglements that exist between him, his family and these Chinese gangs.

Yeah, what does all of this tell you? Well, I think there's a couple of things that work here, nude. I think part of it is you've got a larger bureaucracy that realizes once you sort of finger China as being involved in this drug trade at the State Department, their job suddenly becomes a lot harder. So I think you have just some bureaucratic inertia. But more specifically to the Biden administration, let's be clear what the exact financial ties are here. You and I have talked about before our research about the Biden's receiving millions of dollars from China. Consider the fact that in twenty seventeen, the Biden family received and they don't dispute this they received a five million dollar interest free forgivable loan that they've never paid back from a Chinese businessman who was business partners with a gentleman named Jean an Lo who also goes by the name White Wolf, who's the head of a criminal gang UBG that set up the Sinaloa cartel and made them the kings of Fentanyl. Everybody acknowledges this is the criminal gang that set them up. So what that means is you have basically one degree of separation between the Biden family and these criminal gangs. It's in the form of this businessman who loaned them five million dollars in twenty seventeen. So when you ask yourself, does Joe Biden want to have a conversation does he want to call out the Chinese criminal gangs involved in this activity? I don't think he does, and I think a big part of the reason is because of these financial entanglements that exist between him, his family and these Chinese gangs.

To what extent do the billionaires who made huge profits in China form an impediment to us coming to grips with how deep the Chinese threat is, That's.

To what extent do the billionaires who made huge profits in China form an impediment to us coming to grips with how deep the Chinese threat is, That's.

A huge problem because they recognize and see China does they see Silicon Valley in Wall Street as their most effective lobbyists in the world. They don't need to lobby themselves. And all you have to do is go back and look at the Trump administration when they imposed trade tariffs on China. Whether one agrees with that approach or not, it doesn't matter, because what matters is what happened next. China didn't go to Washington, d C. In protest. They went to Wall Street, and they went to Silicon Valley, and they went to those big powerful firms and said, look, you want access to our market, you need to go fix this. So you had Wall Street titans, and you had big tech titans rushing to Washington, d C. Meeting with cabinet officials in the Trump administration trying to get these tariffs removed. It's an enormous impediment. These companies are thinking short term. They think this is the same China as it was under Hu Jintao. It's not. It's a very different China. This is President G's China, and his views of these corporations and markets is very, very different than any Chinese li that they've had really since deng Chaoping and they need to wise up to it. But right now they are the most useful tool for getting Beijing's agenda advanced in the United States and Washington DC.

A huge problem because they recognize and see China does they see Silicon Valley in Wall Street as their most effective lobbyists in the world. They don't need to lobby themselves. And all you have to do is go back and look at the Trump administration when they imposed trade tariffs on China. Whether one agrees with that approach or not, it doesn't matter, because what matters is what happened next. China didn't go to Washington, d C. In protest. They went to Wall Street, and they went to Silicon Valley, and they went to those big powerful firms and said, look, you want access to our market, you need to go fix this. So you had Wall Street titans, and you had big tech titans rushing to Washington, d C. Meeting with cabinet officials in the Trump administration trying to get these tariffs removed. It's an enormous impediment. These companies are thinking short term. They think this is the same China as it was under Hu Jintao. It's not. It's a very different China. This is President G's China, and his views of these corporations and markets is very, very different than any Chinese li that they've had really since deng Chaoping and they need to wise up to it. But right now they are the most useful tool for getting Beijing's agenda advanced in the United States and Washington DC.

So given that pattern, do you fully expect them to pile on to try to stop the Senate from passing the TikTok bill?

So given that pattern, do you fully expect them to pile on to try to stop the Senate from passing the TikTok bill?

Yes? I do. I think so. Carlisle Group, for example, is a part owner of by Dance, they will certainly push. But I think there are other some of the big investment houses that do huge business in China. They are going to be leveraged by the Chinese government to lobby on this as well. And they're going to argue on good old free market capitalist grounds that the state should not be allowed to seize assets and force the sale to someone else. Never mind that happens in China all the time, but they're going to try to manipulate it in this way. I do think that people are sort of they're becoming more aware that this is the methodology. But yes, there's going to be a heavy, a lobbing push in the Senate to kill this bill.

Yes? I do. I think so. Carlisle Group, for example, is a part owner of by Dance, they will certainly push. But I think there are other some of the big investment houses that do huge business in China. They are going to be leveraged by the Chinese government to lobby on this as well. And they're going to argue on good old free market capitalist grounds that the state should not be allowed to seize assets and force the sale to someone else. Never mind that happens in China all the time, but they're going to try to manipulate it in this way. I do think that people are sort of they're becoming more aware that this is the methodology. But yes, there's going to be a heavy, a lobbing push in the Senate to kill this bill.

I think the very title of your book, blood Money, Why the powerful turn a blind eye while China kills Americans that by itself should tell every American to focus on the Senate and get the Senate to understand this is about American national survival and that we have to have a dramatically tougher and more coherent approach to China. I think your book is a major contribution to helping us understand that we are engaged basically in total societal warfare with a Chinese dictatorship which seeks at every level to undermine and destroy us, and that we have better be developing national strategies that are equally sophisticated and, given the scale of our capabilities, dramatically more powerful once we're engaged. But Peter, I can't tell you how important I think your new book is. It is the most important contribution you've made in a lifetime of doing extraordinary research, and I think it is going to have a very very big impact on the American people and on the history of this country. So Blood Money is available now on Amazon and in bookstores everywhere, and I want to really thank you for joining me to talk about a topic where you are a genuine heroic pioneer.

I think the very title of your book, blood Money, Why the powerful turn a blind eye while China kills Americans that by itself should tell every American to focus on the Senate and get the Senate to understand this is about American national survival and that we have to have a dramatically tougher and more coherent approach to China. I think your book is a major contribution to helping us understand that we are engaged basically in total societal warfare with a Chinese dictatorship which seeks at every level to undermine and destroy us, and that we have better be developing national strategies that are equally sophisticated and, given the scale of our capabilities, dramatically more powerful once we're engaged. But Peter, I can't tell you how important I think your new book is. It is the most important contribution you've made in a lifetime of doing extraordinary research, and I think it is going to have a very very big impact on the American people and on the history of this country. So Blood Money is available now on Amazon and in bookstores everywhere, and I want to really thank you for joining me to talk about a topic where you are a genuine heroic pioneer.

Well, thank you so much, Nude. It's always great to join you. I always enjoyed the stimulating conversation. Thanks for having me.

Well, thank you so much, Nude. It's always great to join you. I always enjoyed the stimulating conversation. Thanks for having me.

Thank you to my guest Peter Schweitzer. You can get a link to buy his new book Blood Money on our show page at newsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gaglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created by Steve Fenley. Special thanks to the team at gingerstree sixty. If you've been enjoying Nutsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of neut World consign up for my three free weekly columns at gingristhree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm new Gingrich. This is neuts World.

Thank you to my guest Peter Schweitzer. You can get a link to buy his new book Blood Money on our show page at newsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gaglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created by Steve Fenley. Special thanks to the team at gingerstree sixty. If you've been enjoying Nutsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of neut World consign up for my three free weekly columns at gingristhree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm new Gingrich. This is neuts World.