On this episode of News World. Harvard President Claudine Gay resigned from her position on Tuesday. Her departure comes just six months after becoming Harvard's first black president. Did she make mistakes in her testimony in Capitol Hill? As she admits in her New York Times op ed published on Wednesday entitled Clauding Gay, What just happened at Harvard is bigger than me? She wrote, quote, Yes, I made mistakes. She said her published work contained passages where some material duplicated other scholars language without proper attribution. But she said she never had claimed credit for this work, and she stands by her original research. And at the December congressional hearing that started the onslaughter criticism, she wrote, I neglected to clearly articulate that calls for the genocide of Jewish people are abhorrent and unacceptable. Was Gay's ascension at heart Harvard part of the larger diversity equity inclusion plan across colleges and universities nationwide. In their new book, The Diversity con David Johnson and Kent Heck and Lively take a comprehensive look into how companies and schools are infiltrated and radicalized by DEI theory. I'm really pleased to welcome my guest, Kent Heckenlively. He is an attorney, science teacher, and New York Times bestselling author. Kent, welcome, and thank you for joining me on Newts World.

On this episode of News World. Harvard President Claudine Gay resigned from her position on Tuesday. Her departure comes just six months after becoming Harvard's first black president. Did she make mistakes in her testimony in Capitol Hill? As she admits in her New York Times op ed published on Wednesday entitled Clauding Gay, What just happened at Harvard is bigger than me? She wrote, quote, Yes, I made mistakes. She said her published work contained passages where some material duplicated other scholars language without proper attribution. But she said she never had claimed credit for this work, and she stands by her original research. And at the December congressional hearing that started the onslaughter criticism, she wrote, I neglected to clearly articulate that calls for the genocide of Jewish people are abhorrent and unacceptable. Was Gay's ascension at heart Harvard part of the larger diversity equity inclusion plan across colleges and universities nationwide. In their new book, The Diversity con David Johnson and Kent Heck and Lively take a comprehensive look into how companies and schools are infiltrated and radicalized by DEI theory. I'm really pleased to welcome my guest, Kent Heckenlively. He is an attorney, science teacher, and New York Times bestselling author. Kent, welcome, and thank you for joining me on Newts World.

Thanks for having me nude. It's a great honor.

Thanks for having me nude. It's a great honor.

Well, and your book is so timely and so important. Let's start, though, with the recent news that Harvard President Claudine Gay and University of Pennsylvania President Liz McGill both resigned and what that means. Harvard President Claudine Gay, University of Pennsylvania president is Give mcgil and MIT president Sally Cornbloth were questioned at the December fifth, twenty twenty two House Committee on Education in the Workforce hearing unquote holding campus leaders accountable and confronting anti Semitism. All three said that it is context specific what is considered anti semitism. Let's listen to some of that testimony.

Well, and your book is so timely and so important. Let's start, though, with the recent news that Harvard President Claudine Gay and University of Pennsylvania President Liz McGill both resigned and what that means. Harvard President Claudine Gay, University of Pennsylvania president is Give mcgil and MIT president Sally Cornbloth were questioned at the December fifth, twenty twenty two House Committee on Education in the Workforce hearing unquote holding campus leaders accountable and confronting anti Semitism. All three said that it is context specific what is considered anti semitism. Let's listen to some of that testimony.

Doctor Cornbloth at MIT, does calling for the genocide of Jews violate MIT's code of conduct or rules regarding bullying and harassment?

Doctor Cornbloth at MIT, does calling for the genocide of Jews violate MIT's code of conduct or rules regarding bullying and harassment?

Yes? Or no?

Yes? Or no?

You've targeted at individuals not making public statements?

You've targeted at individuals not making public statements?

Yes or no? Calling for the genocide of Jews does not constitute bullying and harassment.

Yes or no? Calling for the genocide of Jews does not constitute bullying and harassment.

I have not heard calling for the genocide for Jews on our campus.

I have not heard calling for the genocide for Jews on our campus.

Ms Migil at Penn, does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Penn's rules or code of conduct?

Ms Migil at Penn, does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Penn's rules or code of conduct?

Yes?

Yes?

Or no.

Or no.

If the speech turns into conduct, it can be harassment.

If the speech turns into conduct, it can be harassment.

Yes, I am asking specifically calling for the genocide of Jews. Does that constitute bullying harassment?

Yes, I am asking specifically calling for the genocide of Jews. Does that constitute bullying harassment?

If it is directed and severer pervasive, it is harassment.

If it is directed and severer pervasive, it is harassment.

So the answer is yes.

So the answer is yes.

It is a context dependent decision.

It is a context dependent decision.

Congresswoman, It's a context dependent decision. That's your testimony today. Calling for the genocide of Jews is depending upon the context, that is not bullying or harassment. This is the easiest question to answer, Yes, Miss McGill.

Congresswoman, It's a context dependent decision. That's your testimony today. Calling for the genocide of Jews is depending upon the context, that is not bullying or harassment. This is the easiest question to answer, Yes, Miss McGill.

If the speech becomes conduct, it can be harassment.

If the speech becomes conduct, it can be harassment.

And Doctor Gay at Harvard, does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Harvard's rules of bullying and harassment?

And Doctor Gay at Harvard, does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Harvard's rules of bullying and harassment?

Yes?

Yes?

Or no. It can be depending on the context.

Or no. It can be depending on the context.

What's the context?

What's the context?

Targeted as an individual, targeted at an individual, it's.

Targeted as an individual, targeted at an individual, it's.

Targeted at Jewish students, Jewish individuals. Do you understand your testimony is dehumanizing them. Do you understand that dehumanization is part of antisseyemotism. I will ask you one more time. Does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Harvard's rules of bullying and harassment?

Targeted at Jewish students, Jewish individuals. Do you understand your testimony is dehumanizing them. Do you understand that dehumanization is part of antisseyemotism. I will ask you one more time. Does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Harvard's rules of bullying and harassment?

Yes?

Yes?

Or no?

Or no?

Antisemitic rhetoric when it crosses into conduct that amounts to bullying, harassment, intimidation, that is actionable conduct, and we do take action.

Antisemitic rhetoric when it crosses into conduct that amounts to bullying, harassment, intimidation, that is actionable conduct, and we do take action.

So the answer is yes, that calling for the genocide of Jews violates Harvard Code of Conduct. Correct.

So the answer is yes, that calling for the genocide of Jews violates Harvard Code of Conduct. Correct.

Again, it depends on the context.

Again, it depends on the context.

It does not depend on the context. The answer is yes, and this is why you should resign. These are unacceptable answers across the board.

It does not depend on the context. The answer is yes, and this is why you should resign. These are unacceptable answers across the board.

The congressional hearing started backlash from the public, including the university, alumni and donors. Miguil was the first to resign on de Summer ninth, following a call for her resignation from the board of the Wharton Business School and the withdrawal of a donor's one hundred million dollar gift to the university. Harvard President Claudine resigned on January second, making her the shortest Harvard president in history, only serving six months. And I tell you, President Sally Cornbluth is now the only president testified at the December sixth hearing who is still president. Let me start with that. Do you think that her resignation is imminent?

The congressional hearing started backlash from the public, including the university, alumni and donors. Miguil was the first to resign on de Summer ninth, following a call for her resignation from the board of the Wharton Business School and the withdrawal of a donor's one hundred million dollar gift to the university. Harvard President Claudine resigned on January second, making her the shortest Harvard president in history, only serving six months. And I tell you, President Sally Cornbluth is now the only president testified at the December sixth hearing who is still president. Let me start with that. Do you think that her resignation is imminent?

I think it is, and I think what conservatives can expect in twenty four is for a lot of scalps to be taken. Now, this is not about vengeance, it's about competence. These jobs in academia should be filled by our very best people, and what DEI has done is it has put some very mediocre people in these positions. They're pushing dangerous ideas and it's harming our youth. And that's why we need to stand up and demand that these people reveal who they are, and if they are not qualified for the job, we need to call for their resignation.

I think it is, and I think what conservatives can expect in twenty four is for a lot of scalps to be taken. Now, this is not about vengeance, it's about competence. These jobs in academia should be filled by our very best people, and what DEI has done is it has put some very mediocre people in these positions. They're pushing dangerous ideas and it's harming our youth. And that's why we need to stand up and demand that these people reveal who they are, and if they are not qualified for the job, we need to call for their resignation.

I was a little surprised to see that in Gay's case, the president of Harvard, she makes nine hundred thousand dollars a year.

I was a little surprised to see that in Gay's case, the president of Harvard, she makes nine hundred thousand dollars a year.

She's still going to make nine hundred thousand dollars a year as a professor there, and so I'm a little bit concerned that even though she's resigning, this is just shuffling her around and we're going to see her in a top position once again, we need to make sure that stuff stops.

She's still going to make nine hundred thousand dollars a year as a professor there, and so I'm a little bit concerned that even though she's resigning, this is just shuffling her around and we're going to see her in a top position once again, we need to make sure that stuff stops.

Well and isn't there sort of an insider's club at work here.

Well and isn't there sort of an insider's club at work here.

One hundred percent. And that's why we need to keep the focus and we need to keep the attention on these people. We need to make sure that the people who ascend to these positions are qualified. And one of the things that kind of gets me is, you know, I'm a person who loves academia. I love the intellectual life. I love debates of about ideas, and the fact that these people are so intolerant and are allowed to be instructing our youth, they're creating an intolerance in our youth. The anti semitism of the Ivy League is out of control, as well as the anti Asian prejudice, as shown by Harvard's categorical lowering of Asian American admission to their university. Our country should be a meritocracy. A meritocracy is a stable political system in which anybody can ascend. And when they are pushing this DEI nonsense and saying there are only certain immutable characteristics which render you capable of leadership, that's an idea which needs to be confronted and defeated.

One hundred percent. And that's why we need to keep the focus and we need to keep the attention on these people. We need to make sure that the people who ascend to these positions are qualified. And one of the things that kind of gets me is, you know, I'm a person who loves academia. I love the intellectual life. I love debates of about ideas, and the fact that these people are so intolerant and are allowed to be instructing our youth, they're creating an intolerance in our youth. The anti semitism of the Ivy League is out of control, as well as the anti Asian prejudice, as shown by Harvard's categorical lowering of Asian American admission to their university. Our country should be a meritocracy. A meritocracy is a stable political system in which anybody can ascend. And when they are pushing this DEI nonsense and saying there are only certain immutable characteristics which render you capable of leadership, that's an idea which needs to be confronted and defeated.

What's fascinating about the resignation of President Claudingay and what makes it, I think sort of a pivot point, is that she actually was the kind of perfect product of the DEI movement and the personification of Harvard's commitment to placing diversity and inclusion over meritocracy and honesty. Could you talk a little bit about how that occurred at Harvard and how that movement became so dominant.

What's fascinating about the resignation of President Claudingay and what makes it, I think sort of a pivot point, is that she actually was the kind of perfect product of the DEI movement and the personification of Harvard's commitment to placing diversity and inclusion over meritocracy and honesty. Could you talk a little bit about how that occurred at Harvard and how that movement became so dominant.

Well, this Dei philosophy is something that has been in the works for years. So this is something that's grown up over the past twenty thirty years, and so it's not surprising that we're seeing kind of the flowering of the DEI movement, and so it's in full flower, and this is the time where they're supposed to show us how wonderful they are, and it's just been a disaster. So that's why we as conservatives need to confront this philosophy. We need them to debate us in the public eye, because when they do, the public will see the absolute hollowness of this promise and how DEI is nothing less than a civilization destroying idea.

Well, this Dei philosophy is something that has been in the works for years. So this is something that's grown up over the past twenty thirty years, and so it's not surprising that we're seeing kind of the flowering of the DEI movement, and so it's in full flower, and this is the time where they're supposed to show us how wonderful they are, and it's just been a disaster. So that's why we as conservatives need to confront this philosophy. We need them to debate us in the public eye, because when they do, the public will see the absolute hollowness of this promise and how DEI is nothing less than a civilization destroying idea.

As early as October twenty fourth, the New York Post sent twenty seven plagiarism allegations to Harvard, and they got back a very blistering letter three days later from Thomas Claire, who is counsel for both Gay personally and for Harvard, which said the allegations were demonstrably false and said all the examples were cited and properly credited. But then a week later Harvard's investigation into the allegations began and it only concluded on December ninth. And it seems to me that as I read this, I we'll ask you to comment. But over two dozen plagiarism charges were brought against her. She allegedly lifted nearly half a page of material verbatim in her two thousand and one article. In the article, she borrowed four sentences from David Cannon's nineteen ninety nine book Race, Redistricting and Representation without quotation marks or citations. There are also complaints that she lifted for a nineteen ninety six paper by Frank Gilliam. I mean they expelled twenty seven underclassmen for plagiarism.

As early as October twenty fourth, the New York Post sent twenty seven plagiarism allegations to Harvard, and they got back a very blistering letter three days later from Thomas Claire, who is counsel for both Gay personally and for Harvard, which said the allegations were demonstrably false and said all the examples were cited and properly credited. But then a week later Harvard's investigation into the allegations began and it only concluded on December ninth. And it seems to me that as I read this, I we'll ask you to comment. But over two dozen plagiarism charges were brought against her. She allegedly lifted nearly half a page of material verbatim in her two thousand and one article. In the article, she borrowed four sentences from David Cannon's nineteen ninety nine book Race, Redistricting and Representation without quotation marks or citations. There are also complaints that she lifted for a nineteen ninety six paper by Frank Gilliam. I mean they expelled twenty seven underclassmen for plagiarism.

Yeah, and so you and I both write books. I've written fifteen books. My books are known for having three four hundred citations in them, because I am a stickler for when it's somebody else's idea, I credit that idea. And it is so personally offensive to hear that she has that many allegations of plagiarism. And here I am. You know, I'm a middle school science teacher who writes books I know not to play drives. And the president of Harvard being credibly accused of this and them seeming to find her guilty. I just find appalling this woman should be so far from any academic institution if she's guilty of those charges.

Yeah, and so you and I both write books. I've written fifteen books. My books are known for having three four hundred citations in them, because I am a stickler for when it's somebody else's idea, I credit that idea. And it is so personally offensive to hear that she has that many allegations of plagiarism. And here I am. You know, I'm a middle school science teacher who writes books I know not to play drives. And the president of Harvard being credibly accused of this and them seeming to find her guilty. I just find appalling this woman should be so far from any academic institution if she's guilty of those charges.

She's still in her New York Times article rejecting the idea. In this New York Times op edsy she published on Wednesday, which I think tells you a little bit about her ego. It's entitled Claudine Gay, what just happened at Harvard is bigger than me? And she wrote, I'm quoting, Yes, I made mistakes. She said there was quote some material duplicated other scholars language without proper attribution. Now can you imagine if every undergraduate in the country adopted the without proper attribution defense every time they were told that they were plagiarizing, And of course, with the rise of modern artificial intelligence, You're going to see more and more examples of term papers written by computer. And now she said she never claimed credit for others' work. She stands why our original research, I mean, the arrogance implied. And this denial is amazing.

She's still in her New York Times article rejecting the idea. In this New York Times op edsy she published on Wednesday, which I think tells you a little bit about her ego. It's entitled Claudine Gay, what just happened at Harvard is bigger than me? And she wrote, I'm quoting, Yes, I made mistakes. She said there was quote some material duplicated other scholars language without proper attribution. Now can you imagine if every undergraduate in the country adopted the without proper attribution defense every time they were told that they were plagiarizing, And of course, with the rise of modern artificial intelligence, You're going to see more and more examples of term papers written by computer. And now she said she never claimed credit for others' work. She stands why our original research, I mean, the arrogance implied. And this denial is amazing.

In the regular world, Newt that's called a confession. It's only in the IVY League that that's not a confession.

In the regular world, Newt that's called a confession. It's only in the IVY League that that's not a confession.

And the Ivy League it is an explanation for why she's going to remain powerful. And I was surprised that she's apparently going to keep her nine hundred thousand dollars a year salary even while she ceases to be president and becomes just a faculty member.

And the Ivy League it is an explanation for why she's going to remain powerful. And I was surprised that she's apparently going to keep her nine hundred thousand dollars a year salary even while she ceases to be president and becomes just a faculty member.

And this is why I think that conservatives need to keep the attention on these people, because what the entire DEI philosophy is doing is it's disempowering conservative voices, and so we have to take back our power. We have to stand up, we have to speak out, and we need to demand answers to keep going. Because what happens is that these people have lived in such an insular world that when they come out to the public and try to defend themselves, they look like idiots, and we need to keep the pressure on these people. We need these people to be exposed, and we need good people in those positions. They don't have to be conservative, they just have to not be crazy.

And this is why I think that conservatives need to keep the attention on these people, because what the entire DEI philosophy is doing is it's disempowering conservative voices, and so we have to take back our power. We have to stand up, we have to speak out, and we need to demand answers to keep going. Because what happens is that these people have lived in such an insular world that when they come out to the public and try to defend themselves, they look like idiots, and we need to keep the pressure on these people. We need these people to be exposed, and we need good people in those positions. They don't have to be conservative, they just have to not be crazy.

I think crazy is a pretty good example. By the way, she goes on to say, I love this re articulate. She says in her New York Times peace quote. I neglected to clearly articulate that calls for the genocide of Jewish people are abhorrent and unacceptable. Now I believe that at last Stefani, who did an amazing job in that hearing, ask her seventeen times it's.

I think crazy is a pretty good example. By the way, she goes on to say, I love this re articulate. She says in her New York Times peace quote. I neglected to clearly articulate that calls for the genocide of Jewish people are abhorrent and unacceptable. Now I believe that at last Stefani, who did an amazing job in that hearing, ask her seventeen times it's.

Not hard to say genocide is wrong.

Not hard to say genocide is wrong.

I watched in amazement. I thought, at least showed great discipline and great restraint in just coming back and saying again and again. So gay was given seventeen opportunities to be clear yeah, and somehow turns it into I neglected to clearly articulate. I've concluded that this woman is a racist, she is dishonest, and she is stunningly arrogant, and that it tells you about the system that promoted her that she could get to be president.

I watched in amazement. I thought, at least showed great discipline and great restraint in just coming back and saying again and again. So gay was given seventeen opportunities to be clear yeah, and somehow turns it into I neglected to clearly articulate. I've concluded that this woman is a racist, she is dishonest, and she is stunningly arrogant, and that it tells you about the system that promoted her that she could get to be president.

Two tools that I think we need to use in twenty twenty four are ridicule and contempt. We just need to go there. We need to state what happened. How is it that the president of Harvard could be asked seventeen times to condemn genocide and she misses every single time. Okay, you could get a plumber down the street. You only need to ask him once. If he condemns genocide, he knows the right answer. How can the president of Harvard not know the answer.

Two tools that I think we need to use in twenty twenty four are ridicule and contempt. We just need to go there. We need to state what happened. How is it that the president of Harvard could be asked seventeen times to condemn genocide and she misses every single time. Okay, you could get a plumber down the street. You only need to ask him once. If he condemns genocide, he knows the right answer. How can the president of Harvard not know the answer.

And write it off as a neglect? I neglected to clearly articulate that level of latent dishonesty in itself is I think condemnatory. Hi, this is newt. If you live in California or you happen to be visiting, I'd like to invite you to my two upcoming book events in January. Killis and I are both going to be at the Richard Nixon Library and Museum in yor Belunda on January ninth at seven pm. Tickets are available now at Nixon Foundation dot org. And Klist and I are both going to be at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation and Institute in Simi Valley on January tenth at five pm. Tickets are available now at Reagan Foundation. I hope you'll join us for a book signing and a talk and a chance to get together and kick off the new year at the Nixon Library and the Reagan Library. Let's talk about your new book, The Diversity con which David Johnson you wrote, because you really look at the whole way in which this DEI has evolved. And I mentioned to you a while ago a friend of mine had written that we ought to rename it discrimination, exclusion and Intolerance.

And write it off as a neglect? I neglected to clearly articulate that level of latent dishonesty in itself is I think condemnatory. Hi, this is newt. If you live in California or you happen to be visiting, I'd like to invite you to my two upcoming book events in January. Killis and I are both going to be at the Richard Nixon Library and Museum in yor Belunda on January ninth at seven pm. Tickets are available now at Nixon Foundation dot org. And Klist and I are both going to be at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation and Institute in Simi Valley on January tenth at five pm. Tickets are available now at Reagan Foundation. I hope you'll join us for a book signing and a talk and a chance to get together and kick off the new year at the Nixon Library and the Reagan Library. Let's talk about your new book, The Diversity con which David Johnson you wrote, because you really look at the whole way in which this DEI has evolved. And I mentioned to you a while ago a friend of mine had written that we ought to rename it discrimination, exclusion and Intolerance.

Yeah, So David Johnson is a Project Veritas whistleblower. So this is my fourth book that I've written with a Project Veritas whistleblower. So I'm kind of becoming the unofficial biographer of Project Veritas whistleblowers. So after millions of people see the videos, they come to me and we do a deep dive into it. And David Johnson is a really interesting character because he's twenty six years old, describes himself as left of center, and is gay, and he's a packaging engineer and he was hired as a contract employee for Hasbro and within the first week he's forced to sit through one of these diversity trainings, and he has the presence of mind to turn it on and record it, and he's horrified by what he hears. What he hears in this is that babies as young as six months old can be racist. And he says to himself, look, I'm a minority in this country. I've never felt discriminated against. This is not the American which I grew up. So he turns it over to James O'Keeffe, and when James O'Keefe was at Project Veritas, it goes viral and he goes through this journey of going to conservative conferences, being warmly embraced and becomes obsessed with this Dei philosophy because he considers it so harmful to the country. And so that's when he hooks up with me. And what we did was we had him go undercover at some of these DEI events that are aimed at businesses, mostly in educational institutions, to figure out how are they brainwashing people. And it's really kind of interesting because as somebody yourself Newe who's an academic, you know that there's a way that you present information and you're trying to get people to be intrigued by it. Let's say it's a three day conference, the first day of the conference, you kind of get a lot of interesting information, like you may learn about the Tulsa Race riots, you know, where sixty years after the end of slavery, a large number of African Americans in Oklahoma had become pretty successful and their community was burned to the ground. And so you say, oh, that's really interesting, and so you feel a sense of connection to the people giving you the information. Day two, they present some more troubling ideas, but you know, still within the bounds of reasonable thought. Day three is when they go absolutely crazy. That's when they introduce the transagenda and all sorts of weird ideas, basically saying, giving a Marxist ideal that there's an oppressor and oppressed class. Now where do you go with that? How can you be only one of two things? I don't want to be an oppressor and I don't want to be oppressed. But that's what they set up as the dynamic in people's minds. And you know, we also kind of do a deep dive into how the Chinese had brainwashed American POWs in Korea, and it's a real subtle form of brainwashing. It's first, Oh, the history you think is true is wrong. Okay, so the history is bad, then you are bad. Then hey, but you can be I'm good if you do this, and then I will break you of what you believe about history. I will break you of what you believe about yourself and then all create this new self. And this is a terrifying idea, but you have to understand how it's done. It doesn't start out with the crazy stuff. It starts out with some interesting stuff that you know, you and I would probably find to be compelling.

Yeah, So David Johnson is a Project Veritas whistleblower. So this is my fourth book that I've written with a Project Veritas whistleblower. So I'm kind of becoming the unofficial biographer of Project Veritas whistleblowers. So after millions of people see the videos, they come to me and we do a deep dive into it. And David Johnson is a really interesting character because he's twenty six years old, describes himself as left of center, and is gay, and he's a packaging engineer and he was hired as a contract employee for Hasbro and within the first week he's forced to sit through one of these diversity trainings, and he has the presence of mind to turn it on and record it, and he's horrified by what he hears. What he hears in this is that babies as young as six months old can be racist. And he says to himself, look, I'm a minority in this country. I've never felt discriminated against. This is not the American which I grew up. So he turns it over to James O'Keeffe, and when James O'Keefe was at Project Veritas, it goes viral and he goes through this journey of going to conservative conferences, being warmly embraced and becomes obsessed with this Dei philosophy because he considers it so harmful to the country. And so that's when he hooks up with me. And what we did was we had him go undercover at some of these DEI events that are aimed at businesses, mostly in educational institutions, to figure out how are they brainwashing people. And it's really kind of interesting because as somebody yourself Newe who's an academic, you know that there's a way that you present information and you're trying to get people to be intrigued by it. Let's say it's a three day conference, the first day of the conference, you kind of get a lot of interesting information, like you may learn about the Tulsa Race riots, you know, where sixty years after the end of slavery, a large number of African Americans in Oklahoma had become pretty successful and their community was burned to the ground. And so you say, oh, that's really interesting, and so you feel a sense of connection to the people giving you the information. Day two, they present some more troubling ideas, but you know, still within the bounds of reasonable thought. Day three is when they go absolutely crazy. That's when they introduce the transagenda and all sorts of weird ideas, basically saying, giving a Marxist ideal that there's an oppressor and oppressed class. Now where do you go with that? How can you be only one of two things? I don't want to be an oppressor and I don't want to be oppressed. But that's what they set up as the dynamic in people's minds. And you know, we also kind of do a deep dive into how the Chinese had brainwashed American POWs in Korea, and it's a real subtle form of brainwashing. It's first, Oh, the history you think is true is wrong. Okay, so the history is bad, then you are bad. Then hey, but you can be I'm good if you do this, and then I will break you of what you believe about history. I will break you of what you believe about yourself and then all create this new self. And this is a terrifying idea, but you have to understand how it's done. It doesn't start out with the crazy stuff. It starts out with some interesting stuff that you know, you and I would probably find to be compelling.

It's a totally different world and one that I clearly didn't grow up in. You say at one point that in one of these classes, before you even saw the professor, that with the backdrop of a rainbow flag, we were presented with ally gay, intersex rights, human, lesbian, cisgender stereotype, asexual, free, homosexual, bisexual, transgender, equal queer, sexism, identity, and LGBT.

It's a totally different world and one that I clearly didn't grow up in. You say at one point that in one of these classes, before you even saw the professor, that with the backdrop of a rainbow flag, we were presented with ally gay, intersex rights, human, lesbian, cisgender stereotype, asexual, free, homosexual, bisexual, transgender, equal queer, sexism, identity, and LGBT.

What is ally means means you will stand up for somebody's sexual identity.

What is ally means means you will stand up for somebody's sexual identity.

I mean what strikes me is and I'm writing a series for the American Spectator starting in nineteen sixty looking at how we evolve to the current situation. Well, what struck me was that the growth of the civil rights movement, ultimately joining in with the anti war movement during Vietnam, and then along comes a sexual identity movement which becomes its own massive force, and which in many ways is now the most dynamic part of the Democratic Party and many college campuses, the most dynamic part of defining what's legitimate? Am I missing something here?

I mean what strikes me is and I'm writing a series for the American Spectator starting in nineteen sixty looking at how we evolve to the current situation. Well, what struck me was that the growth of the civil rights movement, ultimately joining in with the anti war movement during Vietnam, and then along comes a sexual identity movement which becomes its own massive force, and which in many ways is now the most dynamic part of the Democratic Party and many college campuses, the most dynamic part of defining what's legitimate? Am I missing something here?

You're absolutely right, because it's easy to destroy things. I think that's the story of the French Revolution. It's really easy to destroy things. What was great about the American Revolution was we wanted to kick out the British, but we really didn't want to have a reign of terror after we won. Yes, some people left and went to England, but we buy and large we avoided that. And you know, new confusion about these terms. That's kind of why at the end of the book we have the Newest speak Dictionary, with a little nod to George Orwell, where we say, Okay, you want to get the definitions of these things, you can find them.

You're absolutely right, because it's easy to destroy things. I think that's the story of the French Revolution. It's really easy to destroy things. What was great about the American Revolution was we wanted to kick out the British, but we really didn't want to have a reign of terror after we won. Yes, some people left and went to England, but we buy and large we avoided that. And you know, new confusion about these terms. That's kind of why at the end of the book we have the Newest speak Dictionary, with a little nod to George Orwell, where we say, Okay, you want to get the definitions of these things, you can find them.

It's easier to destroy than to build. Sam Rayburn, when he was Speaker of the House, They've been a Texas farmer. He used to say, you know, any jackass can knock down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one. Yeah, And I think we're in kind of that cycle where what you have as a group of fanatics who for some reason are collectively against Western civilization and against American civilization, but don't actually have a coherent alternative and have come together as kind of a coalition of the haters.

It's easier to destroy than to build. Sam Rayburn, when he was Speaker of the House, They've been a Texas farmer. He used to say, you know, any jackass can knock down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one. Yeah, And I think we're in kind of that cycle where what you have as a group of fanatics who for some reason are collectively against Western civilization and against American civilization, but don't actually have a coherent alternative and have come together as kind of a coalition of the haters.

Yeah, and so I think that's going to be the real challenge for we conservatives is the fact that we look at the academic institutions and we're horrified by what we see, and we know there needs to be a remodel of the academic institutions, but it could be so easy for us to destroy the academic institutions, and we don't want to do that, I know very much. In conservatism, there is the idea that, you know, let me just go out on my own, and maybe I don't need college, but I'm somebody who really advocates for education, while at the same time saying a lot of what you're getting in our current academic environment is not ultimately helpful to you and your success in the future.

Yeah, and so I think that's going to be the real challenge for we conservatives is the fact that we look at the academic institutions and we're horrified by what we see, and we know there needs to be a remodel of the academic institutions, but it could be so easy for us to destroy the academic institutions, and we don't want to do that, I know very much. In conservatism, there is the idea that, you know, let me just go out on my own, and maybe I don't need college, but I'm somebody who really advocates for education, while at the same time saying a lot of what you're getting in our current academic environment is not ultimately helpful to you and your success in the future.

We agree that there are things that are deeply profoundly wrong with many of our institutions, and particularly with many of our elite institutions. What's the solution.

We agree that there are things that are deeply profoundly wrong with many of our institutions, and particularly with many of our elite institutions. What's the solution.

Well, I think there's a couple things we can do. First of all, we can rediscover the work of Martin Luther King. Be judged by the content of your character, not by immutable characteristics. Let's talk again about the meritocracy, which allows anybody to rise. I think one of the really interesting statistics I ran across in putting this book together was to look at the number of hours that students by racial groups spend on academic activities outside of regular school hours. Asian kids spend about eleven hours on average every week, Caucasian kids spend about eight hours, Hispanic and Black kids spend about five and a half hours. That's something real and specific. So what we can say is, okay, let's have some measurements. You know, let's say to everybody, all right, if you want to be a really superior student, it looks like you need to be spending nine to eleven hours a week outside of regular school activities doing something intellectually stimulating. Well, that works out to about an hour and a half a day. An hour and a half a day is not that much. I mean you could do thirty minutes a day during the week and then you know, a couple hours on the weekend, and so we need to be looking at what are the strategies for success. The strategies for success is you obtaining skills and hopefully stacking those skills in sort of a talent stack, so that not only are you good at thinking, you're good at reading, you're good at writing, you're good at public speaking, you can convey information, you can get people to understand what you're thinking and agree to a common course of action. Those are the skills that are necessary for success, not how we're all different, you know, not that you know, oh my god, I'm a straight man, you're a gay man, all this other sort of stuff. It doesn't matter. And I think that's what was great about David Johnson's perspective on it, because he says, Okay, so I'm black and I'm gay. What does that have anything to do with how well I package your product so it arrives to the customer and it's not broken.

Well, I think there's a couple things we can do. First of all, we can rediscover the work of Martin Luther King. Be judged by the content of your character, not by immutable characteristics. Let's talk again about the meritocracy, which allows anybody to rise. I think one of the really interesting statistics I ran across in putting this book together was to look at the number of hours that students by racial groups spend on academic activities outside of regular school hours. Asian kids spend about eleven hours on average every week, Caucasian kids spend about eight hours, Hispanic and Black kids spend about five and a half hours. That's something real and specific. So what we can say is, okay, let's have some measurements. You know, let's say to everybody, all right, if you want to be a really superior student, it looks like you need to be spending nine to eleven hours a week outside of regular school activities doing something intellectually stimulating. Well, that works out to about an hour and a half a day. An hour and a half a day is not that much. I mean you could do thirty minutes a day during the week and then you know, a couple hours on the weekend, and so we need to be looking at what are the strategies for success. The strategies for success is you obtaining skills and hopefully stacking those skills in sort of a talent stack, so that not only are you good at thinking, you're good at reading, you're good at writing, you're good at public speaking, you can convey information, you can get people to understand what you're thinking and agree to a common course of action. Those are the skills that are necessary for success, not how we're all different, you know, not that you know, oh my god, I'm a straight man, you're a gay man, all this other sort of stuff. It doesn't matter. And I think that's what was great about David Johnson's perspective on it, because he says, Okay, so I'm black and I'm gay. What does that have anything to do with how well I package your product so it arrives to the customer and it's not broken.

If you could waive a magic one, how would you actually reform Harvard.

If you could waive a magic one, how would you actually reform Harvard.

One of the things that I think is great is the power of social media. Social media has driven clouting Gay's resignation because the stupidity of what she said could not survive social media attention. So what we need to do is we need to actively engage with these academic leaders, knowing that the mainstream media won't do its job. Social media will do its job as well as the alumni donors. When the alumni donors hear this nonsense coming from their schools, they will rise up and take action. That's why I think that this is a perfect model for what we need to do all through twenty twenty four, and we will have a cleaning house in academia and we will hopefully have non crazy people at the head of these institutions. And also what we're doing is we're educating the students. So I think that's a really important thing to understand because as much as we talk about the students being brainwashed, well, to be young is also to be a bit rebellious. So I think we need to activate the natural rebellion in the young because I think that they're more open to these ideas than we may think.

One of the things that I think is great is the power of social media. Social media has driven clouting Gay's resignation because the stupidity of what she said could not survive social media attention. So what we need to do is we need to actively engage with these academic leaders, knowing that the mainstream media won't do its job. Social media will do its job as well as the alumni donors. When the alumni donors hear this nonsense coming from their schools, they will rise up and take action. That's why I think that this is a perfect model for what we need to do all through twenty twenty four, and we will have a cleaning house in academia and we will hopefully have non crazy people at the head of these institutions. And also what we're doing is we're educating the students. So I think that's a really important thing to understand because as much as we talk about the students being brainwashed, well, to be young is also to be a bit rebellious. So I think we need to activate the natural rebellion in the young because I think that they're more open to these ideas than we may think.

Which leaves me an idea I've had for a while, but maybe too big a stretch. I think that we ought to require that any school that receives federal aid that any student the ones who can tape the class they're in.

Which leaves me an idea I've had for a while, but maybe too big a stretch. I think that we ought to require that any school that receives federal aid that any student the ones who can tape the class they're in.

Yeah. I think that's a great idea.

Yeah. I think that's a great idea.

Because that would automatically create a sense of outside observation, and I think you would suddenly see a startling drift back towards normalcy from faculty members who right now are arrogant in their isolation.

Because that would automatically create a sense of outside observation, and I think you would suddenly see a startling drift back towards normalcy from faculty members who right now are arrogant in their isolation.

The left wing has opened that door for us because they have obliterated people's privacy. They've gone after them for all of these things, and so all we're asking for is the same kind of openness with which they've gone after our private lives. And we're saying, hey, look, if you're saying something in the classroom, the students have a right to make a copy of that to discuss what you said. I mean, that's the idea of education, right that we discussed these ideas, So why wouldn't we do that.

The left wing has opened that door for us because they have obliterated people's privacy. They've gone after them for all of these things, and so all we're asking for is the same kind of openness with which they've gone after our private lives. And we're saying, hey, look, if you're saying something in the classroom, the students have a right to make a copy of that to discuss what you said. I mean, that's the idea of education, right that we discussed these ideas, So why wouldn't we do that.

The other problem is very different. I talked a lot about there are five schools in Baltimore City high schools in which not a single student can do math. That's about twenty one or twenty two hundred students and not one can do math. So the problem in higher education is people are being taught, but they're being taught the wrong things. The challenge in these large inner city unionized public schools, they're just not learning. To me, that's a crisis for our survival because you're not going to compete with China with a workforce that is illiterate and incapable, and you're not going to have citizens that can make serious decisions if they have no ability to learn. How would you deal with this substantial number of places where literally no learning is occurring.

The other problem is very different. I talked a lot about there are five schools in Baltimore City high schools in which not a single student can do math. That's about twenty one or twenty two hundred students and not one can do math. So the problem in higher education is people are being taught, but they're being taught the wrong things. The challenge in these large inner city unionized public schools, they're just not learning. To me, that's a crisis for our survival because you're not going to compete with China with a workforce that is illiterate and incapable, and you're not going to have citizens that can make serious decisions if they have no ability to learn. How would you deal with this substantial number of places where literally no learning is occurring.

I think you just need to call it an emergency in those areas, let's figure out what to do. I mean, and I think that you could get the local population on that side, because parents want their kids to do better than they did, and so I think that there's a lot that's going on in these communities that can be changed. I'll admit that it's very hard. I teach in at school, which is a high performing school. I don't quite see that population, so I may not have the best view of that. But I think that you can look at samples of schools that have been turned around and there are some strategies you can use.

I think you just need to call it an emergency in those areas, let's figure out what to do. I mean, and I think that you could get the local population on that side, because parents want their kids to do better than they did, and so I think that there's a lot that's going on in these communities that can be changed. I'll admit that it's very hard. I teach in at school, which is a high performing school. I don't quite see that population, so I may not have the best view of that. But I think that you can look at samples of schools that have been turned around and there are some strategies you can use.

I think the work you're doing is very very important. This book could hardly be timelier. We're going to remind all of our listeners that your new book The Diversity Con The Secrets and Lies behind the Shady DEI Industry is available in Amazon and in bookstores everywhere. And I really want to thank you for joining me. I think this is a very important contribution to what is becoming a very big national debate.

I think the work you're doing is very very important. This book could hardly be timelier. We're going to remind all of our listeners that your new book The Diversity Con The Secrets and Lies behind the Shady DEI Industry is available in Amazon and in bookstores everywhere. And I really want to thank you for joining me. I think this is a very important contribution to what is becoming a very big national debate.

Thank you very much, Nude.

Thank you very much, Nude.

Thank you to my guest, Kent Heckan Lively. You can get a link to buy his new book, The Diversity Con on our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gingriish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at Gingish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my three freeweekly columns at Gingrichtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm NEWT Gingrich. This is news world,

Thank you to my guest, Kent Heckan Lively. You can get a link to buy his new book, The Diversity Con on our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gingriish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at Gingish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my three freeweekly columns at Gingrichtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm NEWT Gingrich. This is news world,