On this episode of News World. According to a recent Gallup poll from October twenty twenty three, support for a third party candidate is up to sixty three percent. This represents a seven percentage point increase from a year ago and is the highest since Gallup first asked the question in two thousand and three. And in national polling, the majority of registered voters think the United States is on the wrong track. No Labels is working to ensure Americans have the choice to vote for a presidential ticket that features strong, effective, and honest leaders who will commit to working closely with both parties to find common sense solutions to America's biggest problems. No Labels has proposed quote a unity ticket for twenty twenty four. Here to talk about their national polling results and the latest update on the No Labels unity ticket. I'm really pleased to welcome my guest, Ryan Clancy, chief strategist of No Labels. Ryan, Welcome and thank you for joining me on news World.

On this episode of News World. According to a recent Gallup poll from October twenty twenty three, support for a third party candidate is up to sixty three percent. This represents a seven percentage point increase from a year ago and is the highest since Gallup first asked the question in two thousand and three. And in national polling, the majority of registered voters think the United States is on the wrong track. No Labels is working to ensure Americans have the choice to vote for a presidential ticket that features strong, effective, and honest leaders who will commit to working closely with both parties to find common sense solutions to America's biggest problems. No Labels has proposed quote a unity ticket for twenty twenty four. Here to talk about their national polling results and the latest update on the No Labels unity ticket. I'm really pleased to welcome my guest, Ryan Clancy, chief strategist of No Labels. Ryan, Welcome and thank you for joining me on news World.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for having me.

What drew you into the No Labels project?

What drew you into the No Labels project?

Well, I've been with No Labels in some capacity for about a decade. I actually came up in democratic politics, so I was at the DSCC in two thousand and six when Schumer was there.

Well, I've been with No Labels in some capacity for about a decade. I actually came up in democratic politics, so I was at the DSCC in two thousand and six when Schumer was there.

I should say that's the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee.

I should say that's the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee.

Yes, when I was a speech writer for them Vice President Biden, among others. I never saw people who were Republicans as my enemy. I really believed in my bones when I looked historically as to how change happens, you need people from both sides of the aisle. I mean, in the early days of no labels, we always used to reference the budget deals that you and President Clinton did in the nineties, and the things that Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan did in the eighties, where you had people who were proudly conservative or liberal but recognized nobody gets to be king for a day, and you got to work together to achieve things.

Yes, when I was a speech writer for them Vice President Biden, among others. I never saw people who were Republicans as my enemy. I really believed in my bones when I looked historically as to how change happens, you need people from both sides of the aisle. I mean, in the early days of no labels, we always used to reference the budget deals that you and President Clinton did in the nineties, and the things that Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan did in the eighties, where you had people who were proudly conservative or liberal but recognized nobody gets to be king for a day, and you got to work together to achieve things.

The various things we did, the only four consecutive balance budgets in your lifetime, welfare reform, capital gains, tax cuts, Medicare reform, all of that required some ability to get in the same room. And Clinton and I on the balanced budget, for example, I think we figured out one time we'd spent thirty five days face to face just talking and analyzing and brainstorming trying to figure out how to get there. There's an interesting book called The Pact by a Professor Duke who points out that if it hadn't been for the Lewinsky affair, that we actually, the President and I had actually developed a program to move on both Medicare and Social Security in a totally bipartisan way. And I think it always shocks people that, given the current tensions, that you could in fact get an amazing amount done if you were willing for both sides to have some equity on what you were doing, so no labels. If I remember, really started as a congressional and particularly a House based caucus of people on both sides who just wanted to try to figure out a way to break out of those stalemate.

The various things we did, the only four consecutive balance budgets in your lifetime, welfare reform, capital gains, tax cuts, Medicare reform, all of that required some ability to get in the same room. And Clinton and I on the balanced budget, for example, I think we figured out one time we'd spent thirty five days face to face just talking and analyzing and brainstorming trying to figure out how to get there. There's an interesting book called The Pact by a Professor Duke who points out that if it hadn't been for the Lewinsky affair, that we actually, the President and I had actually developed a program to move on both Medicare and Social Security in a totally bipartisan way. And I think it always shocks people that, given the current tensions, that you could in fact get an amazing amount done if you were willing for both sides to have some equity on what you were doing, so no labels. If I remember, really started as a congressional and particularly a House based caucus of people on both sides who just wanted to try to figure out a way to break out of those stalemate.

Yes, to the extent people knew us at any point in the last ten years, we helped create this House problem solver's caucus, which is you know, Democrats Republicans. A good way to think about it conceptually is the folks on the right are organized, that's the freedom caucus. You got, the folks on the left, that's the progressive caucus. Nobody had ever really came along and tried to organize people in between them, and that's what we did. And then we connected them with a lot of our allies in the Senate like Susan Collins and Bill Cassidy and Joe Manchin and Kristen Cinema and is dysfunctional as Washington has been to the extent they've got some things done, like that big infrastructure bill a couple of years ago. Our allies have really been in the middle of that well.

Yes, to the extent people knew us at any point in the last ten years, we helped create this House problem solver's caucus, which is you know, Democrats Republicans. A good way to think about it conceptually is the folks on the right are organized, that's the freedom caucus. You got, the folks on the left, that's the progressive caucus. Nobody had ever really came along and tried to organize people in between them, and that's what we did. And then we connected them with a lot of our allies in the Senate like Susan Collins and Bill Cassidy and Joe Manchin and Kristen Cinema and is dysfunctional as Washington has been to the extent they've got some things done, like that big infrastructure bill a couple of years ago. Our allies have really been in the middle of that well.

And one of the people I most admire is former Senator Joe Lieberman, and he was a founding chairman of No Labels. I mean, I think that by itself told you this was a serious, substantive effort, because he's one of the most quality oriented and one of the most decent people I've worked with in politics.

And one of the people I most admire is former Senator Joe Lieberman, and he was a founding chairman of No Labels. I mean, I think that by itself told you this was a serious, substantive effort, because he's one of the most quality oriented and one of the most decent people I've worked with in politics.

He's a great man, and he's still with us today and very active. In fact, he was just on Fox talking about us yesterday. So he's out there flying the flag.

He's a great man, and he's still with us today and very active. In fact, he was just on Fox talking about us yesterday. So he's out there flying the flag.

That's given you sort of an anchor because Lieberman was always a Democrat, but a kind of a bipartisan Democrat in a way that a lot of people couldn't. So currently, what's the national leadership like for No Labels?

That's given you sort of an anchor because Lieberman was always a Democrat, but a kind of a bipartisan Democrat in a way that a lot of people couldn't. So currently, what's the national leadership like for No Labels?

So we've got four national co chairs. We have Senator Lieberman, we have former Maryland Governor Larry Hogan, We've got former North Carolina Governor Pat McCrory, and doctor Benjamin F. Chavis Junior, who used to be the executive director of the NAACP and was actually the youngest person to ever go to work for doctor Martin Luther King. So those are our four national co chairs.

So we've got four national co chairs. We have Senator Lieberman, we have former Maryland Governor Larry Hogan, We've got former North Carolina Governor Pat McCrory, and doctor Benjamin F. Chavis Junior, who used to be the executive director of the NAACP and was actually the youngest person to ever go to work for doctor Martin Luther King. So those are our four national co chairs.

I mean, that's a pretty good Isshaemeent. We did a podcast to a while back with Benjamin Cheavas and he's a very impressive person.

I mean, that's a pretty good Isshaemeent. We did a podcast to a while back with Benjamin Cheavas and he's a very impressive person.

You want to talk about somebody who really went to the mat for things he believed in.

You want to talk about somebody who really went to the mat for things he believed in.

Me.

Me.

He spent almost a decade in jail in the seventies for a crime he didn't commit, and.

He spent almost a decade in jail in the seventies for a crime he didn't commit, and.

He came out of it amazingly as a positive person. I found it to be very positive and very human. When we did the podcast together, it was very exciting.

He came out of it amazingly as a positive person. I found it to be very positive and very human. When we did the podcast together, it was very exciting.

We're very lucky to have it.

We're very lucky to have it.

Tell us about your polling up. I gather you guys are pretty optimistic by what you're learning from the American people.

Tell us about your polling up. I gather you guys are pretty optimistic by what you're learning from the American people.

Well, we're optimistic about the prospects of a unity ticket because the American people are so pessimistic. I mean, that's why it Okay, that's why there's an opening. You noticed at the top the Gallup polling showing about three and five Americans say they want a third party every which way. We've asked the question over the course of the last two years. The main poll question we've asked is, if it were Trump and Biden in twenty four and you had a choice to vote for a moderate independent, would you be open to voting for that independent? Anywhere from fifty nine percent the first time we asked the poll, the latest reading is sixty three have said yes. Now, the reason to us that's so notable is we know that somebody saying they're open to doing something doesn't mean they're going to do it. But when your ceiling is sixty three, you can lose a lot of those open to people and still have a winning plurality in a multi candidate race.

Well, we're optimistic about the prospects of a unity ticket because the American people are so pessimistic. I mean, that's why it Okay, that's why there's an opening. You noticed at the top the Gallup polling showing about three and five Americans say they want a third party every which way. We've asked the question over the course of the last two years. The main poll question we've asked is, if it were Trump and Biden in twenty four and you had a choice to vote for a moderate independent, would you be open to voting for that independent? Anywhere from fifty nine percent the first time we asked the poll, the latest reading is sixty three have said yes. Now, the reason to us that's so notable is we know that somebody saying they're open to doing something doesn't mean they're going to do it. But when your ceiling is sixty three, you can lose a lot of those open to people and still have a winning plurality in a multi candidate race.

That's right, because if you have Biden and Trump and a third no labels Canada, thirty five or forty percent could win.

That's right, because if you have Biden and Trump and a third no labels Canada, thirty five or forty percent could win.

Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes.

What kind of reaction are you getting in terms of state by state, whether places you would say you're really strong and places you haven't penetrated yet.

What kind of reaction are you getting in terms of state by state, whether places you would say you're really strong and places you haven't penetrated yet.

We are strong everywhere. We've been working with a signature gathering firm that's been doing this for decades. They'd get signatures for referendum and all kinds of ballot initiative. They said, this is one of the easiest signatures they've ever tried to get. In fact, just last week we cleared the million signature threshold. So we've now gathered since we started a couple of years ago, over a million signatures in our petitions across the country. We are on the ballot already in twelve states, will be active around the ballot in twenty seven by the end of this year. And I want to emphasize because when we say twelve, people might say, well, you know, that means you've got a lot to go. There's some states that don't even let you start the process to get on the ballot until next year. So anytime there's an opening, we're in. You know, for context, Ross Perot didn't even start gathering signatures until the spring of ninety two for his race. So we're pretty far ahead of the curve and we think we're hitting all our marks in terms of ballot access.

We are strong everywhere. We've been working with a signature gathering firm that's been doing this for decades. They'd get signatures for referendum and all kinds of ballot initiative. They said, this is one of the easiest signatures they've ever tried to get. In fact, just last week we cleared the million signature threshold. So we've now gathered since we started a couple of years ago, over a million signatures in our petitions across the country. We are on the ballot already in twelve states, will be active around the ballot in twenty seven by the end of this year. And I want to emphasize because when we say twelve, people might say, well, you know, that means you've got a lot to go. There's some states that don't even let you start the process to get on the ballot until next year. So anytime there's an opening, we're in. You know, for context, Ross Perot didn't even start gathering signatures until the spring of ninety two for his race. So we're pretty far ahead of the curve and we think we're hitting all our marks in terms of ballot access.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I have a sense that the systematic opposition to you getting on the ballot is much greater than Pero faced.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I have a sense that the systematic opposition to you getting on the ballot is much greater than Pero faced.

Yes, we had the benefit of flying under the radar for about a year where the party establishment sort of ignored us, and then they started to recognize, gee, this is a real thing. And so the Arizona Democratic Party suit us and the Democratic Secretary of State a couple months ago. They lost that suit, and so we expect to see more of this. This is really the political equivalent of like I walk in a grocery store, drop a banana peel in front of my foot and slip, and then I sue the grocery store. So they're not good lawsuits, but we know they're going to keep doing this to just throw sand in the gears and make our life difficult.

Yes, we had the benefit of flying under the radar for about a year where the party establishment sort of ignored us, and then they started to recognize, gee, this is a real thing. And so the Arizona Democratic Party suit us and the Democratic Secretary of State a couple months ago. They lost that suit, and so we expect to see more of this. This is really the political equivalent of like I walk in a grocery store, drop a banana peel in front of my foot and slip, and then I sue the grocery store. So they're not good lawsuits, but we know they're going to keep doing this to just throw sand in the gears and make our life difficult.

Have you had trouble raising the money just to survive the legal fights?

Have you had trouble raising the money just to survive the legal fights?

No, because we knew this was coming, so we did a lot of fundraising early on. We've got everything we need to get on the ballot to fend off all the legal challenges we know we're going to get. We feel very confident we've got everything we need to get on the ballot.

No, because we knew this was coming, so we did a lot of fundraising early on. We've got everything we need to get on the ballot to fend off all the legal challenges we know we're going to get. We feel very confident we've got everything we need to get on the ballot.

I read Mark Alpern's Wide World of News every morning, and Halprin keeps making the point that Robert Kennedy Junior is an interesting media phenomenon but doesn't have the resources to get on the ballot as an independent candidate, and that you all are the only people who've actually been doing the legwork at the basic grassroots level to actually be able to field a candidate.

I read Mark Alpern's Wide World of News every morning, and Halprin keeps making the point that Robert Kennedy Junior is an interesting media phenomenon but doesn't have the resources to get on the ballot as an independent candidate, and that you all are the only people who've actually been doing the legwork at the basic grassroots level to actually be able to field a candidate.

It is a lot of work. Every state has these very arcane and idiosyncratic procedures for how you get on the ballot. They get all these different timelines. Some states you can get signatures anywhere. Some you got to get them from certain counties, so you really have to have an organized operation. As far as we've seen, neither Cornell West or Robert F. Kennedy Junior look to be seriously pursuing ballot access at this point. That doesn't mean they won't, but it's a steep hill to climb, and you.

It is a lot of work. Every state has these very arcane and idiosyncratic procedures for how you get on the ballot. They get all these different timelines. Some states you can get signatures anywhere. Some you got to get them from certain counties, so you really have to have an organized operation. As far as we've seen, neither Cornell West or Robert F. Kennedy Junior look to be seriously pursuing ballot access at this point. That doesn't mean they won't, but it's a steep hill to climb, and you.

Represent a peculiar threat. I've just read today Ben Dominich was writing a column that the Florida Democratic Party has ruled that nobody else can be on the ballot except Biden, and so literally they are closing out the primaries because they're so frightened that the numbers you're describing mean that he could in fact face some very embarrassing primaries. But all that does is push people towards you.

Represent a peculiar threat. I've just read today Ben Dominich was writing a column that the Florida Democratic Party has ruled that nobody else can be on the ballot except Biden, and so literally they are closing out the primaries because they're so frightened that the numbers you're describing mean that he could in fact face some very embarrassing primaries. But all that does is push people towards you.

Well, you know, I think we see on both sides, as you pointed out, the Democratic Party, despite the fact that more than half of Democrats, let alone just you know, independence of republic, more than half of Democrats want somebody other than Biden, They've closed off any possibility a competition, no debates. They've changed around the primary calendar, as you noted last week, Florida is where going to keep Dean Phillips, who's the only primary challenger off the ballot. You know. On the Republican side, at the state level, they've done a lot of things to clear the decks for Trump too. There's a lot of state Republican parties, for example, that have changed their delegate selection rules to be winner take all, which of course is better for a front runner. So on the one hand, I understand why people think historically independents can't get a lot of traction. On the other hand, when both parties are doing everything in their power to force a choice on the public that most of them don't want, why should it surprise anybody that some viable competition is emerging.

Well, you know, I think we see on both sides, as you pointed out, the Democratic Party, despite the fact that more than half of Democrats, let alone just you know, independence of republic, more than half of Democrats want somebody other than Biden, They've closed off any possibility a competition, no debates. They've changed around the primary calendar, as you noted last week, Florida is where going to keep Dean Phillips, who's the only primary challenger off the ballot. You know. On the Republican side, at the state level, they've done a lot of things to clear the decks for Trump too. There's a lot of state Republican parties, for example, that have changed their delegate selection rules to be winner take all, which of course is better for a front runner. So on the one hand, I understand why people think historically independents can't get a lot of traction. On the other hand, when both parties are doing everything in their power to force a choice on the public that most of them don't want, why should it surprise anybody that some viable competition is emerging.

Christmas is coming and it's never too early to think about what would make the perfect gift for your children or grandchildren this Christmas. I recommend you order Hell the Elephant seven book series and plush toy from our Ginglish three sixty store. Elis the Elephant teaches children lessons of America's founding and what makes our country exceptional. It's the perfect Christmas gift for little patriots. Order your seven book series and plush toy today by going to ginglishtree sixty dot com slash store. That's ginglishtree sixty dot com slash store. I've been doing a series of articles for The American Spectator going back to nineteen sixty and how do we get to where we are today? And I was really surprised in looking at the sixty eight race. The Wallace far beyond just representing kind of the racist South, but Wallace suddenly was an alternative for blue collar workers. I think he got something like fifty five percent of the white steel workers in Chicago because they didn't want to vote for a regular Republican like Nixon. They weren't going to vote for Humphrey, who they saw us too liberal. And all of a sudden, here comes this guy who sounds like a genuine populist, and he's the high water mark for winning electoral votes for any third party candidate since I think Theodore rosso I was struck by it. Because when you squeeze out the voter's right to choose, they very often find an outlet you didn't expect. And so, in a sense, the two parties may be creating a no labels alternative much bigger than it would be normally if they allowed really healthy competition inside the parties.

Christmas is coming and it's never too early to think about what would make the perfect gift for your children or grandchildren this Christmas. I recommend you order Hell the Elephant seven book series and plush toy from our Ginglish three sixty store. Elis the Elephant teaches children lessons of America's founding and what makes our country exceptional. It's the perfect Christmas gift for little patriots. Order your seven book series and plush toy today by going to ginglishtree sixty dot com slash store. That's ginglishtree sixty dot com slash store. I've been doing a series of articles for The American Spectator going back to nineteen sixty and how do we get to where we are today? And I was really surprised in looking at the sixty eight race. The Wallace far beyond just representing kind of the racist South, but Wallace suddenly was an alternative for blue collar workers. I think he got something like fifty five percent of the white steel workers in Chicago because they didn't want to vote for a regular Republican like Nixon. They weren't going to vote for Humphrey, who they saw us too liberal. And all of a sudden, here comes this guy who sounds like a genuine populist, and he's the high water mark for winning electoral votes for any third party candidate since I think Theodore rosso I was struck by it. Because when you squeeze out the voter's right to choose, they very often find an outlet you didn't expect. And so, in a sense, the two parties may be creating a no labels alternative much bigger than it would be normally if they allowed really healthy competition inside the parties.

Well, unfortunately, the party establishment, they've kind of had a choice. When they saw some of these competition emerging. They could have said, well, maybe we should address the underlying problem for why voters are abandoning us in the first place. They didn't choose that route. Instead, they said, let's just close ranks and let's just do everything we can to keep away competition. And the public doesn't like that. Unsurprisingly, Americans do not like being told who can be on the ballot, who you can vote for. If we all believe in democracy, that means we decide who's on the ballot and who we vote for.

Well, unfortunately, the party establishment, they've kind of had a choice. When they saw some of these competition emerging. They could have said, well, maybe we should address the underlying problem for why voters are abandoning us in the first place. They didn't choose that route. Instead, they said, let's just close ranks and let's just do everything we can to keep away competition. And the public doesn't like that. Unsurprisingly, Americans do not like being told who can be on the ballot, who you can vote for. If we all believe in democracy, that means we decide who's on the ballot and who we vote for.

From your perspective and all the polling you've done, what are they three or four key issues which require a centrist solution that you think who are at the forefront of the American people's thinking.

From your perspective and all the polling you've done, what are they three or four key issues which require a centrist solution that you think who are at the forefront of the American people's thinking.

Well, so, I think one huge one, undoubtedly is immigration. Part of the reason that I think there's such an opening if you go back to nineteen ninety two with Ross Perrot, I think you could argue Clinton and Bush Senior were comparatively center right center left figures, and there seems to be a much bigger opening today where what the major party nominees are going to offer the public is very far from what they want. So you take something like immigration right now as a voter, these are basically your choices. Former President Trump said the other day if he is elected, one of the ways he deal with undocumented immigrants is to round them up, put them into camps, and deport them. That is not where most voters are. They want a secure border. They don't want that. On the other hand, if you go with President Biden, you're voting for the person who has overseen the most significant increase in unauthorized border crossings in American history. So your choices are immigrants in camps or open borders. That's not where most voters are. They want a secure border, but they want immigrants treated humanly. And oh, by the way, they like legal immigrants. They recognize that legal immigration is a source of strength for this country. So that's an issue. I think another issue is the fiscal situation. For a long time, Americans didn't care about the budget deficit because they didn't have to. Why should I care about the budget when I can go get a mortgage for three percent and inflation is under control. And the polling we're seeing voters are now making that connection between the fact that gied, the fact that a mortgage is eight percent and a box of cereal is nine dollars is connected to the fact that the spending in Washington has reached an unsustainable level. So I think that's one crime is going to be another huge issue. So we actually released mister Speaker over the summer a booklet called common Sense. It's actually intentionally named after the famous Thomas Payne booklet. In there, we've got thirty ideas and this is based on all our polling and modeling that we think pretty fairly represents where most of the country wants to go on most issues.

Well, so, I think one huge one, undoubtedly is immigration. Part of the reason that I think there's such an opening if you go back to nineteen ninety two with Ross Perrot, I think you could argue Clinton and Bush Senior were comparatively center right center left figures, and there seems to be a much bigger opening today where what the major party nominees are going to offer the public is very far from what they want. So you take something like immigration right now as a voter, these are basically your choices. Former President Trump said the other day if he is elected, one of the ways he deal with undocumented immigrants is to round them up, put them into camps, and deport them. That is not where most voters are. They want a secure border. They don't want that. On the other hand, if you go with President Biden, you're voting for the person who has overseen the most significant increase in unauthorized border crossings in American history. So your choices are immigrants in camps or open borders. That's not where most voters are. They want a secure border, but they want immigrants treated humanly. And oh, by the way, they like legal immigrants. They recognize that legal immigration is a source of strength for this country. So that's an issue. I think another issue is the fiscal situation. For a long time, Americans didn't care about the budget deficit because they didn't have to. Why should I care about the budget when I can go get a mortgage for three percent and inflation is under control. And the polling we're seeing voters are now making that connection between the fact that gied, the fact that a mortgage is eight percent and a box of cereal is nine dollars is connected to the fact that the spending in Washington has reached an unsustainable level. So I think that's one crime is going to be another huge issue. So we actually released mister Speaker over the summer a booklet called common Sense. It's actually intentionally named after the famous Thomas Payne booklet. In there, we've got thirty ideas and this is based on all our polling and modeling that we think pretty fairly represents where most of the country wants to go on most issues.

Okay, and I assume that's all available online. It is so Where would people go to get common sense?

Okay, and I assume that's all available online. It is so Where would people go to get common sense?

Commonsense majority dot org. You can download it pdf. If you want to get a fancier copy, you can get it on Amazon.

Commonsense majority dot org. You can download it pdf. If you want to get a fancier copy, you can get it on Amazon.

I like that commonsense dot org. Okay, I'm a big believer in branding and in language. I think you probably have a home run on that particular one.

I like that commonsense dot org. Okay, I'm a big believer in branding and in language. I think you probably have a home run on that particular one.

Well, common sense speaks to you. Look at focus groups, and we've done a lot of them. People's biggest frustration it's the absence of commonsense that just drives them crazy. I cannot understand how people in Washington behave.

Well, common sense speaks to you. Look at focus groups, and we've done a lot of them. People's biggest frustration it's the absence of commonsense that just drives them crazy. I cannot understand how people in Washington behave.

Having been a wortion, and I can appreciate. I'm sure you can too. Some days you just kind of want to tear your hair out. The Founding Father's greatest fear was dictatorship, and so they consciously designed a constitution so complicated that volunteers could barely get it to work, and that every day we prove that they have built this extraordinarily an efficient machine which grinds slowly but has lasted pretty well for two hundred and fifty years. To what extent, based on your polling, in an alternative world, you suddenly had the governor of California or somebody else rather than Biden and you suddenly had somebody other than Trump as the Republican nominee. To what extent would that draw the discontent away and weaken the no label's approach.

Having been a wortion, and I can appreciate. I'm sure you can too. Some days you just kind of want to tear your hair out. The Founding Father's greatest fear was dictatorship, and so they consciously designed a constitution so complicated that volunteers could barely get it to work, and that every day we prove that they have built this extraordinarily an efficient machine which grinds slowly but has lasted pretty well for two hundred and fifty years. To what extent, based on your polling, in an alternative world, you suddenly had the governor of California or somebody else rather than Biden and you suddenly had somebody other than Trump as the Republican nominee. To what extent would that draw the discontent away and weaken the no label's approach.

I think there would be less of an opening. The source of no labels open right now is the profound disapproval that the Americans have with the choices both parties are giving them. If both parties gave them better choices, I feel pretty certain saying that would start to close off our path. I'll give you just one example. We've done a lot of polling as well as modeling, where now you're taking polling and mapping it against the actual voter file in every single state, and there's a big universe of voters, for example, about twenty million of them that we characterize as like Trump's policies but don't like and don't want to vote for Trump. Those voters are in play for a unity ticket if Trump is the Republican nominee. If he's not, then those voters probably go home and just vote for the standard issue Republican. They'll be happy enough with their choice.

I think there would be less of an opening. The source of no labels open right now is the profound disapproval that the Americans have with the choices both parties are giving them. If both parties gave them better choices, I feel pretty certain saying that would start to close off our path. I'll give you just one example. We've done a lot of polling as well as modeling, where now you're taking polling and mapping it against the actual voter file in every single state, and there's a big universe of voters, for example, about twenty million of them that we characterize as like Trump's policies but don't like and don't want to vote for Trump. Those voters are in play for a unity ticket if Trump is the Republican nominee. If he's not, then those voters probably go home and just vote for the standard issue Republican. They'll be happy enough with their choice.

Probably. Do you see the same thing on the Democratic side. I watched the debate the other night between the governor of California and Florida. I thought it was very, very interesting that the governor California who keeps saying I am not a candidate and I win a campaign in all fifty states for Biden telling you I am not a candidate, But it struck me that he wouldn't mind becoming a candidate.

Probably. Do you see the same thing on the Democratic side. I watched the debate the other night between the governor of California and Florida. I thought it was very, very interesting that the governor California who keeps saying I am not a candidate and I win a campaign in all fifty states for Biden telling you I am not a candidate, But it struck me that he wouldn't mind becoming a candidate.

Yes, he's doing a lot of things that you don't have to do as the governor of California, let's put it that way.

Yes, he's doing a lot of things that you don't have to do as the governor of California, let's put it that way.

He wrote a book when he was the mayor I think called Citizenville, which I recommend to people is a very smart, interesting book on the application of technology to enable citizens to help government work. He's an interesting guy, obviously dramatically more liberal than I am. Are you going to go for all fifty states or do you have sort of a priority list or how do you see this evolving?

He wrote a book when he was the mayor I think called Citizenville, which I recommend to people is a very smart, interesting book on the application of technology to enable citizens to help government work. He's an interesting guy, obviously dramatically more liberal than I am. Are you going to go for all fifty states or do you have sort of a priority list or how do you see this evolving?

So the way this works is no labels will get on the ballot in thirty four states. The reason we will only do thirty four states is those are the states that basically allow you to get a placeholder, so you can just get a ballot line and then you can come in and fill it in later. The remaining sixteen states plus DC are states that either one require you to have a name candidate or two it just has a threshold that's much easier to get on the ballot. So, for example, instead of requiring fifty thousand signatures, which no labels would need, maybe you need five thousand as a candidate. So the plan would be no labels, we'll get the thirty four states. If we put up a Unity ticket next year, that ticket would take those final sixteen states plus DC over the finish line, so in the end they would be competing in all fifty plus DC.

So the way this works is no labels will get on the ballot in thirty four states. The reason we will only do thirty four states is those are the states that basically allow you to get a placeholder, so you can just get a ballot line and then you can come in and fill it in later. The remaining sixteen states plus DC are states that either one require you to have a name candidate or two it just has a threshold that's much easier to get on the ballot. So, for example, instead of requiring fifty thousand signatures, which no labels would need, maybe you need five thousand as a candidate. So the plan would be no labels, we'll get the thirty four states. If we put up a Unity ticket next year, that ticket would take those final sixteen states plus DC over the finish line, so in the end they would be competing in all fifty plus DC.

Our places the size of New York and California particularly difficult.

Our places the size of New York and California particularly difficult.

Yes, there are some states you need a couple hundred thousand. There are some states you need a couple thousand. As I noted, there are some states you can get signatures from anywhere. There's some you got to get it from certain sized counties. So each state is its own animal. But we've got a plan for everyone.

Yes, there are some states you need a couple hundred thousand. There are some states you need a couple thousand. As I noted, there are some states you can get signatures from anywhere. There's some you got to get it from certain sized counties. So each state is its own animal. But we've got a plan for everyone.

That's amazing. To what extent is your publication common sense kind of the beginning of a platform.

That's amazing. To what extent is your publication common sense kind of the beginning of a platform.

That's the perfect way to describe it, is the beginning of a platform. So we very specifically didn't design it as like a fully fleshed out candidate platform, because we want to give the candidate space to color in the line. So, for example, when we talk about the nature of the fiscal situation, we very clearly lay out the drivers of the problem in some directional solutions, but we don't then therefore say in the corporate text rate should be this and the retirement age should be that, because you've got to give the candidate the flexibility to do that. So what we were striving for with common sense is enough direction where people have a sense for where we got to go, but to leave some legal room for the details for a candidate.

That's the perfect way to describe it, is the beginning of a platform. So we very specifically didn't design it as like a fully fleshed out candidate platform, because we want to give the candidate space to color in the line. So, for example, when we talk about the nature of the fiscal situation, we very clearly lay out the drivers of the problem in some directional solutions, but we don't then therefore say in the corporate text rate should be this and the retirement age should be that, because you've got to give the candidate the flexibility to do that. So what we were striving for with common sense is enough direction where people have a sense for where we got to go, but to leave some legal room for the details for a candidate.

To fill in. Welcomes through the calendar as you see it right now as next year begins to unfold.

To fill in. Welcomes through the calendar as you see it right now as next year begins to unfold.

So no labels, will sometime after the new year start to release the details on how we would pick a ticket, and then what we'll do is sometime after March fifteenth, we'll make the determination for whether we put up a ticket, whether we offer our ballot line to a ticket, and who we would put on it. The reason that we're waiting till after March fifteenth is we have described this as this effort from the beginning as an insurance policy, as we were just talking about a couple of minutes ago. If there's not an opening, if one or both parties put up viable alternatives, we're not going to force it. We have no interest in fueling a spoiler ticket. But if there is an opening after March fifteenth, we'll put up a ticket.

So no labels, will sometime after the new year start to release the details on how we would pick a ticket, and then what we'll do is sometime after March fifteenth, we'll make the determination for whether we put up a ticket, whether we offer our ballot line to a ticket, and who we would put on it. The reason that we're waiting till after March fifteenth is we have described this as this effort from the beginning as an insurance policy, as we were just talking about a couple of minutes ago. If there's not an opening, if one or both parties put up viable alternatives, we're not going to force it. We have no interest in fueling a spoiler ticket. But if there is an opening after March fifteenth, we'll put up a ticket.

In essence of both Biden and Trump are on the way to the nomination. Then the very nature of that binary choice leads people to one or third choice.

In essence of both Biden and Trump are on the way to the nomination. Then the very nature of that binary choice leads people to one or third choice.

Look, it's always possible the public could feel very different about one or both of them four or five months from now. I doubt it, but certainly, if they feel about the two presumptive nominees the way they do today, we see an opening.

Look, it's always possible the public could feel very different about one or both of them four or five months from now. I doubt it, but certainly, if they feel about the two presumptive nominees the way they do today, we see an opening.

You have basically an opportunity to create an independent unity ticket. How will you go about that? How will that require legitimacy.

You have basically an opportunity to create an independent unity ticket. How will you go about that? How will that require legitimacy.

We're still working through that, And the reason we're doing that is because there's just so many different ways we can do it. We had at one point considered doing an in person convention. At some point next year, we decided we need more flexibility, So we're going to have some kind of virtual process, the details of which we'll have again out shortly after the new year. One of the things that some of the critics have come after us just in the last week or two Thomas Edsul, who I'm sure you know, in the New York Times, he wrote a piece criticizing us for not adhering to the legitimacies and safeguards of the primary process, to which I'd say, do you mean the same primary process that is going to produce maybe the two most unpopular presidential candidates in modern American history. The primaries as they're constructed today, we would argue, are much closer to the source of our problem than the solution. Barely a quarter of voters even show up in these primaries. If you go back to twenty sixteen, for example, last time we had competitive primaries on both sides. Between them, Trump and Hillary only got thirty million votes. Well, there's one hundred and sixty million, you know, registered voters in this country. So basically those thirty million decided for the rest of us, here's your two choices. Well, a lot of people didn't think those were the two best choices for the country. So the primary process, not just at the presidential level, as you know, it's producing really bad outcomes in the House and in the Senate. So we make no apologies about bypassing that very dysfunctional process which makes it impossible oftentimes to get candidates that speak to a broad majority of voters.

We're still working through that, And the reason we're doing that is because there's just so many different ways we can do it. We had at one point considered doing an in person convention. At some point next year, we decided we need more flexibility, So we're going to have some kind of virtual process, the details of which we'll have again out shortly after the new year. One of the things that some of the critics have come after us just in the last week or two Thomas Edsul, who I'm sure you know, in the New York Times, he wrote a piece criticizing us for not adhering to the legitimacies and safeguards of the primary process, to which I'd say, do you mean the same primary process that is going to produce maybe the two most unpopular presidential candidates in modern American history. The primaries as they're constructed today, we would argue, are much closer to the source of our problem than the solution. Barely a quarter of voters even show up in these primaries. If you go back to twenty sixteen, for example, last time we had competitive primaries on both sides. Between them, Trump and Hillary only got thirty million votes. Well, there's one hundred and sixty million, you know, registered voters in this country. So basically those thirty million decided for the rest of us, here's your two choices. Well, a lot of people didn't think those were the two best choices for the country. So the primary process, not just at the presidential level, as you know, it's producing really bad outcomes in the House and in the Senate. So we make no apologies about bypassing that very dysfunctional process which makes it impossible oftentimes to get candidates that speak to a broad majority of voters.

How do you validate your legitimacy?

How do you validate your legitimacy?

We know we're going to have some kind of process where we have members across the country. They'll be providing input. We're going to be doing focus groups and in the end we'll use that input to get to a good place.

We know we're going to have some kind of process where we have members across the country. They'll be providing input. We're going to be doing focus groups and in the end we'll use that input to get to a good place.

But will there then be like all committee that will anoint a ticket.

But will there then be like all committee that will anoint a ticket.

There could be, but mister s I'm not being coy here. We just are still working on it and we'll have the details shortly after the new year.

There could be, but mister s I'm not being coy here. We just are still working on it and we'll have the details shortly after the new year.

I've thought about from your perspective. On the one hand, you have people at Joe Manchin who are sort of available. But on the other hand, you could imagine going to a pure outsider ticket that had very successful people who are well known, but they weren't part of the Washington deal.

I've thought about from your perspective. On the one hand, you have people at Joe Manchin who are sort of available. But on the other hand, you could imagine going to a pure outsider ticket that had very successful people who are well known, but they weren't part of the Washington deal.

Yeah, we're going to have a wide open process. There will be some recognizable political figures in that process. There will be people from outside. That's part of the reason, as I mentioned, we're going to get a lot of incoming from our community. We're going to be doing focused groups. And again that's part of the reason we want to wait, because we do think that as we go along and we get more ballid access and the vulnerabilities of Trump and Biden become more apparent, there may be some people who emerge that aren't you on our radar today, but suddenly think there's an opening here four or five months from that.

Yeah, we're going to have a wide open process. There will be some recognizable political figures in that process. There will be people from outside. That's part of the reason, as I mentioned, we're going to get a lot of incoming from our community. We're going to be doing focused groups. And again that's part of the reason we want to wait, because we do think that as we go along and we get more ballid access and the vulnerabilities of Trump and Biden become more apparent, there may be some people who emerge that aren't you on our radar today, but suddenly think there's an opening here four or five months from that.

It must be at one level both frustrating and exhilarating.

It must be at one level both frustrating and exhilarating.

It is. Look, we have studied all the past independent candidacies, and we know all the reasons why they haven't worked historically. It is no question it's an uphill fight. But on the other hand, when you look at the polling we've seen, that you've seen, and then when you just talk to anybody, you know, if you know anybody who's happy about a Trump Biden rematch, I'd like to meet them because that's the first person I'll have met who feels that way. If not now, when there's lots of moments in American history where the conventional wisdom was this can never work, this can never happen, until it did not as it relates to an independent But even if you think about the last couple of years. Twenty sixteen, all the people that said Trump could never win, twenty twenty two, all the people who said the red wave was coming. I'm sure as you remember well, all the people in nineteen seventy nine were saying, man, this washed UPEX actor from California can never win the presidency, and then he did. I think one of the things all of us could use in the political system a little more is a bit more humility about what we don't know. The only thing we know with certainty today is that the public really doesn't like their choices, and they are hungry for other choices. And we're getting the ballot so that choice is available if voters want it next year.

It is. Look, we have studied all the past independent candidacies, and we know all the reasons why they haven't worked historically. It is no question it's an uphill fight. But on the other hand, when you look at the polling we've seen, that you've seen, and then when you just talk to anybody, you know, if you know anybody who's happy about a Trump Biden rematch, I'd like to meet them because that's the first person I'll have met who feels that way. If not now, when there's lots of moments in American history where the conventional wisdom was this can never work, this can never happen, until it did not as it relates to an independent But even if you think about the last couple of years. Twenty sixteen, all the people that said Trump could never win, twenty twenty two, all the people who said the red wave was coming. I'm sure as you remember well, all the people in nineteen seventy nine were saying, man, this washed UPEX actor from California can never win the presidency, and then he did. I think one of the things all of us could use in the political system a little more is a bit more humility about what we don't know. The only thing we know with certainty today is that the public really doesn't like their choices, and they are hungry for other choices. And we're getting the ballot so that choice is available if voters want it next year.

Now, do you actually have membership?

Now, do you actually have membership?

We do. We have very active chapters all across the country. We have state level co chairs, we have people who give money to the movement. We have people who take action on behalf of the movement. So we're active on Capitol Hill. They're writing members of Congress and calling them. And as I said, a million people have now signed no Labels petition. That's a pretty strong validator or the appetite for this right there.

We do. We have very active chapters all across the country. We have state level co chairs, we have people who give money to the movement. We have people who take action on behalf of the movement. So we're active on Capitol Hill. They're writing members of Congress and calling them. And as I said, a million people have now signed no Labels petition. That's a pretty strong validator or the appetite for this right there.

I assume you have all those in your database. Now we do.

I assume you have all those in your database. Now we do.

We've spent a lot of resources in building out a voter file to identify these kinds of voters in the same way that the major parties have that same kind of database that lets them target and turn out voters.

We've spent a lot of resources in building out a voter file to identify these kinds of voters in the same way that the major parties have that same kind of database that lets them target and turn out voters.

I encourage everybody who's listening to go to no Labels dot org and from there they can get your platform. You got it. If you believe in the great strength of a democracy being open to all of its people having ideas and all of its people having an opportunity to provide leadership, then what you're doing is totally in the American tradition. I appreciate you taking the time to talk with this because I think as we get deeper into the year, people are going to be really interested in exactly what No Labels is all about. And Ryan, I think that you've given us a good initial introduction and I'm very grateful and we will continue to follow you, and when you get the candids and things are totally lined up, we could have them come and also talk with us and share with our listeners.

I encourage everybody who's listening to go to no Labels dot org and from there they can get your platform. You got it. If you believe in the great strength of a democracy being open to all of its people having ideas and all of its people having an opportunity to provide leadership, then what you're doing is totally in the American tradition. I appreciate you taking the time to talk with this because I think as we get deeper into the year, people are going to be really interested in exactly what No Labels is all about. And Ryan, I think that you've given us a good initial introduction and I'm very grateful and we will continue to follow you, and when you get the candids and things are totally lined up, we could have them come and also talk with us and share with our listeners.

We'd love to do that. Thank you very much for having me.

We'd love to do that. Thank you very much for having me.

Ryan. I want to thank you for joining me and the national polling No Labels continues to do is really fascinating, and I want to recommend to all of our listeners that they can go to org and to Commonsense Majority dot org first for the whole organization and the common Sense for the booklet that tells what their core platform is. Thanks mister speaker, Thank you to my guest Ryan Clancy. You can learn more about No Labels on our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gingrish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guernsey Sloan and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at Gingrich three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my three free weekly columns at gingrishree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. This is Newtsworld

Ryan. I want to thank you for joining me and the national polling No Labels continues to do is really fascinating, and I want to recommend to all of our listeners that they can go to org and to Commonsense Majority dot org first for the whole organization and the common Sense for the booklet that tells what their core platform is. Thanks mister speaker, Thank you to my guest Ryan Clancy. You can learn more about No Labels on our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gingrish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guernsey Sloan and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at Gingrich three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my three free weekly columns at gingrishree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. This is Newtsworld