Newt talks with high school football coach and U.S. Marine veteran Joe Kennedy. He shares his journey from a troubled childhood in foster care to a 20-year career in the Marine Corps, and his subsequent battle for religious freedom. Kennedy discusses his commitment to public prayer after football games, which led to his dismissal and a prolonged legal fight that culminated in a U.S. Supreme Court victory affirming his right to pray publicly. He reflects on the personal and community impact of his case, his faith, and the making of the film "Average Joe," which chronicles his story. Buy tickets for “Average Joe” here: https://averagejoemovie.com
On this episode of Newts World, high school football coach Joe Kennedy had no other choice but to fight. A childhood in foster care followed by twenty years in the Marine Corps was nothing compared to his biggest battle, his commitment to stand for God publicly by taking a knee in prayer after each football game. When he was fired, Joe and his wife Denise knew this battle for religious freedom, freedom of speech, and the rights of all Americans was one they would have to fight no matter the cost. From the director and producers of God's Not Dead and the producers of The Blind comes Average Joe, a movie in theaters, now here to talk about Average Joe. I'm really pleased to welcome my guests, Coach Joe Kennedy. He's a twenty year Marine veteran turned football coach and his book is Average Joe. One Man's Faith and the Fight to Change the Nation. Coach Joe, welcome and thank you for joining me on Newts World.
Well, thank you so much, sir, It's quite an honor for me.
Can you share a little bit about your background and why you joined the Marine Corps.
Yeah, when I was a kid, well, I was on one in pregnancy and I was kicked out of my house. I was a horrible kid. I got for fighting any kind of trouble you could possibly imagine. I went to I think twelve different schools. I was in foster homes, boys homes, group homes, and just couldn't find a place that I fit in. And the Marine Corps seemed like the perfect place since I get paid to fight, and I knew I needed discipline and I needed something in my life. And that's where my love of my country and the Constitution came into play, because I became something bigger than myself.
You served for twenty four years. That's a pretty tumultuous time in terms of having to deal with America's enemies.
Yeah, that's for sure. I never thought i'd be fighting here in the States over something as simple as a fifteen second prayer. But it was an honor to serve in the Marines.
Somebody once said that you serve in the army, but you are a marine.
That is a very well put. That is exactly the truth.
So you're still walking around thinking, simprifi.
Our rah twenty four to seven.
All right, you serve twenty years, you leave the Corps. What motivated you to become a high school football coach?
Well, I just found my faith. When I retired, I got married to my childhood's sweetheart, and she was a good church girl. I was failing miserably at being a husband, and when I accept the Lord, I told him that I would give him anything if he fixed my relationship with my wife. And so I thought it was a great idea that I started coaching football. And I was approached by the athletic director at the school district, and I put up a fight, didn't want to do it, But after a few months of him hounded me, I finally gave in because I figured God had something in store for me and I just had to do it.
I mean, and do you spend much time with football? Were you sort of a fan of footballer?
No? I mean I watched my fair share of football. I played a little bit in the Marine Corps, but it is nothing like real football. Don't know anything about offense or defense. He just really just go across and smack the guy in front of you and try to kill the guy with the ball. So I had no football knowledge whatsoever.
So what was your first year like? That? Must have been almost frightening.
It was actually really really good because I got to focus on nothing but the kids that were doing the x'es and o's, and it freed up the other coaches should just to worry about football. So I took care of these kids in their homework, their home life, girlfriend problems, everything, and getting the most out of them on the field, trying to get them at one hundred percent when they're playing in the game.
When did you start kneeling at the fifty yard line and offering a prayer?
Yeah, that started right at the very beginning. I was watching facing the giants, and that inspired me to give all the glory to God after each game, and that's what I did for I was in my eighth year, so eight years I prayed on the field twice a week, and it was always just a really quick thing to say, thanks for let me be part of this game.
What would you say your coaching philosophy was at.
That point, Well, really, it was mostly just teaching these young men how to become good young men because a lot of them come from broken homes, single parent families, and our school is in a very poor district, so we get really what society considers all the leftovers, and I graduated from school, so I wanted to be part of their lives. And my philosophy was just to build a team, teach them about discipline, the team building aspects of it, and trying to get the most out of them so they believe in themselves so they could become great citizens in our community.
So when you on the process of doing this and your praying, at some point stidn't start asking if they can pray too.
Yeah, it started sometime during the first year. It was months into it. They saw me out there taking a knee after the football game and they said coach Kim. First, he asked what I was doing out there. I said, thanking God for what you guys did. And they wanted to know if they could join, and I said, this is a free country. Of course you could do whatever you guys want to do. So it kind of grew from there. In the eighth year, we had not just our team, but we had teams from every team in our league was joining us on the fifty yard line after games.
That's tremendous. And then the school district steps in. Yeah, was there a complaint or why did they step in?
Actually, they got a compliment from somebody at another school district saw what we were doing and called their principal and said, hey, I want to tell you what your football program is doing is awesome. So this all started from a good compliment and they launched an investigation. And they thought it was so much easier just to have me stop praying with the kids than to actually stand up for people's rights. And I complied with them. Then the news got a hold of it. It got out of control and they wanted me to stop praying altogether where people could see me in public, and that's where I had my rub.
How did the students react to being told they couldn't pray with you?
They were pretty upset. The school has only one policy, you cannot encourage nor discourage kids in prayer, and I really tried to hit that mark every single time. So when they wanted to come out, I had to explain to them that this was my fight, even though they wanted to support me. Their fight was out on the field. Mine was on my knee after the game. So I mean, it's a great team, good community, any good kids, and I was there for so many years. I get to help raise these kids, and they fully understood it. They didn't like it, but they understood where I was standing.
This is a little strange. They send you a letter telling you to quit praying with students. You then, through counsel, send a letter requesting a religious accommodation to nil and say a brief, quiet, personal prayer in the field after football games. Then the superintendent sends an email saying the issue in question is shifted. I don't understand this at all, from a coach leading prayer with student athletes to a coach's right to conduct a personal private prayer.
I had the hardest time trying to figure that out, and it really came down to I found out the lawyers that represent all the schools in Washington, they're being funded and being backed up by the Separation of Church and State group. So there is outside influences really demanding what our schools do, and they have a whole different agenda than what we're used to and what should be happening in our public schools today. So I found out it was somebody else behind all of that, and instead of standing up for what's right and good, they wanted to turn it to evil and remove it completely.
When you get this note from the superintendent. As I understand it, you offer to me with the school or the school district to get a solution, and they won't meet with you.
For the first week, probably two weeks, we met face to face person or person. Because these people are my friends. The superintendent, he still is a dear friend of mine. My wife, she worked there for fifteen years. I worked there for almost a decade. We spent holidays together, we'd have functions together, we go to church together. I mean, it's not like we were enemies. But when their lawyers gave me the letter that I could no longer talk to the school district any employees unless I was represented by lawyers, I knew I needed help. And that's when First Liberty Institute got involved. Because I was powerless, I had no step forward to try to remedy this.
At that point, they announced a new ban on any employee engaging in any quote demonstrative religious activity that is quote readily observable to students and the attending public. And then on the twenty third, after the evening football game, you kneel alone to offer a brief, quiet, personal prayer of thanks and five days later you're suspended.
Yeah, can you believe that? So they gave me the choice really of my faith or my job. And no American should ever be faced with that. And that's where I had the really hard part about it, is that no American should have to do this. I fought and defended the Constitution. I just didn't think i'd be fighting it in my hometown. And the American in me, I was an American before I became a follower of the Lord. So the red blooded American and marine in me said, this is not right. People should not have to choose this, and they can't demand other people how to exercise their faith. So I was going to die on that hill, even though it was only for a fifteen second prayer.
You're a guy who literally risk his life for his country and you're being suspended for simon prayer. This is insane.
I totally agree. I never understood this, even to this day. I failed to understand why the school district would take that stance, especially when I guaranteed them that this was going to end up in a lawsuit for me to be able to pray, and they said, well, so be it. But they hung out there for eight years, and they fought this tooth and nails, spent millions of dollars fighting this to make sure that religion was not in our public square. That's very concerning for me.
In America, they go further and they after they suspended you, they then placed do not rehire recommendation on your annual coaching evaluation, So in ef fact, you're fired from your job.
Yep end in my career right there.
Did they ever explain their reasoning.
The only reasoning I got from them was that it was so much easier to comply with the lawyers and to stand up for what is right, and that didn't sit well. It never ever made sense to me, even when they reinstated me and they had to reinstate me. That's a stance they took. It was that instead of teaching these people in our community what the First Amendment means a great lesson for everybody, they took it as a personal loss and held it against me, which is terrible when you have an opportunity to correct your course and they absolute did not.
Your friends and your neighbors in the community. What was the reaction.
I would say overall, probably ninety almost ninety nine percent of people were in favor of me. I was a good coach. I was great with the kids. I was part of the community. We were very vested in our school. We had two kids in the high school, one in the middle school. I was coaching for eight years. Our kids grew up with the community's kids and they were behind me, the families, the team. But I did lose some friends over this, especially on the coaching staff. It seemed like they were fractured because they said the team comes first, and I said, well, you're not going to have a team if we don't have any constitutional rights, and they couldn't understand that. So, yeah, I lost some friends over this.
Then you go to the next step and you file a complaint with the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission arguing that your rights to free exercise of religion and free speech have been violated. And frankly, I surprise, they come back and give you a letter saying you have a right to sue the school district.
Yeah, and that seemed like a weird way to go instead of them just ruling and everything be done there. But they obviously took a look at what the First Amendment said in old case law, and they were concerned with it. So they gave us a green light, and so we filed the injunction to give me back on the football field because we were in mid season, so I wanted to get back to coaching as quickly as possible.
But then forced you to go into a lawsuit, and the district court in the Western District of Washington, and then the US Court of Appeals to line circuit both side with the school district. I mean, you're really going through a lot of costs, a lot of trouble here, and then finally in twenty twenty one, the Supreme Court agrees to hear your case. I mean, what were you thinking when you learned you've now created a case that was going all the way to the US Supreme Court.
Well, when I first went through and they said they ruled against me, I was just in shock. And so it went to the Supreme Court the first time and they kicked it back, but they gave us kind of a roadmap and said, hey, there's some very concerning things with the lower courts. So I was just amazed that we had to start all over again and start at the lowest level. And I mean, even to this day, I'm still baffled. This is a fifteen second prayer. This is not worthy going to the United States Supreme Court and taking up all this time, money, and effort on both sides over something so trivial as that, such a simple freedom in America.
So seven years after it happens, in June twenty twenty two, the United States Supreme Court ruled in your favor and asserted that you have a right to pray publicly on the field protect it under the First Amendment. And they said that the school district's actions infringed upon your personal religious expression. What was your reaction when you heard that the court had sided with you.
I wish I could have celebrated more, but it was more of a huge relief the way that the lower courts ruled that any display of religion in the public square could get you terminated. If that would have stuck, I would have screwed up religious freedom for all Americans. It would have been on the books forever, and that would have been on my watch and my cause. So I didn't get a chance to really enjoy the victory of it. I was just so so glad and relieved that we didn't screw it up, and they actually, the Supreme Court took a look at what the First Amendment says and bounce it off the facts of the case and came up with the right decision.
You now reinstated as amazingly long fight seven years. How did that impact your faith and your sense of the importance of religious freedom.
Yeah, it really solidified it. It was always a freedom thing for me. It just happened to be about religion. As a follower of the Lord. I didn't know which way to go. I don't know if I'm supposed to fight these people or what. It was really the case of the Constitution that really kept me going, knowing that God called me to serve and gave me this fighting spirit, and everything I went through in my entire life was leading up to this moment. So I think he was pretty proud of me and sustained my wife and I throughout that long, horrible battle.
I was going to say, your wife must have had a real sense of commitment to you and a real sense of being a partner on this extraordinary journey.
Yeah, behind every man there is a greater woman. And I tell you there is so much truth to the power of a praying wife. You have that support, you could get through anything.
You're now reinstated, and you go to the field for one game. Why did you resign?
I could give a whole bunch of reasons. So they didn't make it fine. I didn't expect a big parade or open arms, but they made it horrible. I wasn't even allowed to talk to the team. I wasn't allowed to attend the team functions. I wasn't given a locker or even a key into the coach's office. When you can't even talk to your own team and interact with them, there's obviously a problem. So I wanted to take the moral high road and said, fine, let everybody heal from this, and I got to retire on my own terms instead of having somebody else tell me I needed to quit.
So that's about a year ago.
Yep, year ago, yep, last football season.
What inspired you to create the film, average, Joe.
Well, I thought there was a real good story there. The guys that approached me. I didn't understand how this could possibly encourage other people, because this was just my life. But they heard my testimony and the way that they wrote the screenplay for it, it was actually pretty compelling, and that we wanted to tell the story not of just the headline news that you see every day, but the whole story that led up to it, because there's always a backstory to everything, and we had an opportunity to show people that no matter where you come from in life, no matter what the odds are against you, that if you stay faithful and you say true that good things could happening, you aren't defined by your past. So we really want to encourage Americans to have a good love of their country, their love of their spouses, and for the love of their God.
It was really kind of daring because you kind of have to stand outside yourself and watch a bunch of strangers trying to explain who you are. You've really been through a lot. I mean, did you ever have any idea your life would follow as many twists and turns?
No, you could never guess this. I'm probably the least likely person in America that should have been called for this. My background says that I shouldn't have made it. My entire life has just been about fighting and trouble. I never thought that it would be motivating for people. And when God calls you man, he calls the weirdest people and to stand up for the right things. But they picked a fight with the wrong guy. You don't pick a fight with the Marine without expecting to have it last a little while, and us put up a good fight.
In that sense. Did the Marine Corps really sort of shape you into the person you are today?
It absolutely did, And everything about my coaching reflected that. Training young men and women how to become good military people, good citizens, and really be able to stand up on their own and have the trust of their brothers and sisters and that respect for the Constitution. This was a great thing for me and turn my life completely around.
If young people come and ask your advice, do you generally recommend that they join the Corps?
No, I do not. Every kid is different, obviously, but there's two. You have the Air Force on one side, which is a very corporate good way of life. They got a good way of taking care of their people, and then you have the Marine Corps that we get the leftovers and we have the roughest environment. So there's a good difference between the one side to the other. And I encourage people go where they fit best. If you want to be challenged more than anything in your life and see what you're made up. You go in the Marine Corps. If you just want to serve and not have to worry about that part of it, go into any other service and just serving is worth it in any of the branches.
I'm really intrigued with your life story, what happens next.
I've been asked that quite a bit lately, and I have absolutely no idea. I have a platform right now that I get to speak about free speech and the freedom of our religion and all really all the freedoms we have in America, and so right now I'm trying to get people out there to number one, get out and vote, be active in their schools and their communities, even in their home life, and men to be men today. That's what we really need in our society. And I'm using my platform right now to encourage people and helping people be able to stand up and be good Americans.
And do you think that requires courage?
It just takes a little bit, because courage isn't something that you really can develop. It's something that you have inside you to do what's right, even if it's not popular, and it doesn't change the fact that you're scared. I mean, I never wanted this battle. I was scared to death that I was going to mess this up for everybody. Everybody's looking at you. But going through that adversity, that's where the courage comes in, is to stick with your convictions and being able to stand on your own two feet because you have so many people that are behind you and supporting you and helping you today.
I think you have an amazing story. And then I'm very honored that you would come and spend some time with us. I know you're remarkably busy. Can you imagine yourself making another movie?
We talked about that, because you can't put fifty years of life. There's just too much to put in there, and there are so many unanswered questions. If they do, cool, if they don't, I'm okay with that. I don't mind writing into the sunset and finally retiring from this and leaving it to the young bucks to continue on this journey. But I'm here to encourage anybody else and to stand with all Americans.
Right now, you just strike me as pretty young and pretty energetic to be riding off into the sunset.
I got a lot of miles on this body.
My friend, Well, I want to thank you for joining me. Your new film Average Joe is a must see for anyone who cares deeply about the future of this country and religious liberty, and our listeners can watch the trailer and buy tickets to the film by going to averagejomovie dot com. It's a real honor for me to have this opportunity to chat with you and to explore what has been kind of an amazing journey.
Well, thank you. I have been a follower of yours my whole entire life, so this has been a huge, huge blessing for me. One of the highlights I'm going to put in my life.
Well, thank you. Maybe it'll make the next book or the next movie.
We'll put it in if they do. Absolutely thank you to my guest coach, Joe Kennedy.
You can get a link to buy tickets to see his new film Average Joe on our show page at Newtsworld dot com. Newsworld is produced by Ginglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guernsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at Gingleish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate us with five stars and give us a review so others can learn what it's all about. Right nowtioners of Newtsworld can sign up for my three freeweekly columns at gingrichthree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. This is Newtworld.