So there was a Middle Eastern potentate who was a bit crazy, and he had different palaces with underground bunkers and secret tunnels in and he would travel around in like different convoys of cars and like which one is he in? But a human source told us that he has a favorite milk camel and it was white. So if you could find in the satellite where the camel was, you knew the vance where he was. So this guy spent billions of dollars building these multiple places where he could hide in these different tunnel complexes. But as long as you knew that he had his white milk camel with him, it didn't really matter.

So there was a Middle Eastern potentate who was a bit crazy, and he had different palaces with underground bunkers and secret tunnels in and he would travel around in like different convoys of cars and like which one is he in? But a human source told us that he has a favorite milk camel and it was white. So if you could find in the satellite where the camel was, you knew the vance where he was. So this guy spent billions of dollars building these multiple places where he could hide in these different tunnel complexes. But as long as you knew that he had his white milk camel with him, it didn't really matter.

Now I do believe that one, because I think we all know once you find a milk camel that works like your.

Now I do believe that one, because I think we all know once you find a milk camel that works like your.

I'm John Czeipher and I'm Jarry O'SHEF.

I'm John Czeipher and I'm Jarry O'SHEF.

I served in the CIA's Clandestine Service for twenty eight years, living undercover all around the.

I served in the CIA's Clandestine Service for twenty eight years, living undercover all around the.

World, and in my thirty three years with the CIA, I served in Africa, Asia, Europe, and the Middle East.

World, and in my thirty three years with the CIA, I served in Africa, Asia, Europe, and the Middle East.

Although we don't usually look at it this way, we created conspiracies.

Although we don't usually look at it this way, we created conspiracies.

In our operations. We got people to believe things that weren't true.

In our operations. We got people to believe things that weren't true.

Now we're investigating the conspiracy theories we see in the news almost every day.

Now we're investigating the conspiracy theories we see in the news almost every day.

We'll break them down for you to determine whether they could be real or whether we're being manipulated.

We'll break them down for you to determine whether they could be real or whether we're being manipulated.

Welcome to Mission implausible.

Welcome to Mission implausible.

So, as you and I both work all those years at CIA, long flights is just part of the deal, right, And when you're called back, you need to be back tomorrow in Washington to talk, you know, in the Oval Office or whatever it is, and you're sitting in Manila. It's a sixteen hour or twenty hour flight back. Sometimes. I always liked it because in our busy lives it was one of the few times, like you didn't hear any telephone ring, No one's coming after you. Yeah.

So, as you and I both work all those years at CIA, long flights is just part of the deal, right, And when you're called back, you need to be back tomorrow in Washington to talk, you know, in the Oval Office or whatever it is, and you're sitting in Manila. It's a sixteen hour or twenty hour flight back. Sometimes. I always liked it because in our busy lives it was one of the few times, like you didn't hear any telephone ring, No one's coming after you. Yeah.

I used to take long train rides through Europe and it was a chance to read.

I used to take long train rides through Europe and it was a chance to read.

So when I was in a rock and I would get home leave, which we would get twice in a tour to Kobek home to Hawaii, I would leave a rocket four in the morning and then it would go from Bagdad to Istanbul to London to DC to LA to Honolulu, and it would take thirty five hours, and yet I would arrive at eleven thirty at night on the same day I left.

So when I was in a rock and I would get home leave, which we would get twice in a tour to Kobek home to Hawaii, I would leave a rocket four in the morning and then it would go from Bagdad to Istanbul to London to DC to LA to Honolulu, and it would take thirty five hours, and yet I would arrive at eleven thirty at night on the same day I left.

Right, Well, today I think we're going to be talking a little bit about airline travel and airports and things, and so this is about Denver International Airport of all places. And there's a number of conspiracy theories that have sort of built up around the airport. And then the one that seems to have sort of gone wider is this view that there's this big secret bunker underneath and it's supposed to be designed to house billionaires in the global political elite in the event of an apocalypse.

Right, Well, today I think we're going to be talking a little bit about airline travel and airports and things, and so this is about Denver International Airport of all places. And there's a number of conspiracy theories that have sort of built up around the airport. And then the one that seems to have sort of gone wider is this view that there's this big secret bunker underneath and it's supposed to be designed to house billionaires in the global political elite in the event of an apocalypse.

I imagine there's a core of truth. Right, There's lots of underground tunnels. It's an airport, You've got conveyor belts, losing your luggage in my luggage, all over the place. So we both have had a lot of background with with tunnels and our former existence, as we both know back in the fifties when we were digging tunnels under the Berlin Wall, one of the major problems was is where do we put the dirt and how do we keep people quiet about it? Digging a tunnel generally means thousands of people or hundreds of people involved, and they all sort of know, like where the tunnel is being dug to So my first question would be the people who were all digging the tunnel, what keeps them quiet? Why aren't they any of them sort of spilling the beans on it.

I imagine there's a core of truth. Right, There's lots of underground tunnels. It's an airport, You've got conveyor belts, losing your luggage in my luggage, all over the place. So we both have had a lot of background with with tunnels and our former existence, as we both know back in the fifties when we were digging tunnels under the Berlin Wall, one of the major problems was is where do we put the dirt and how do we keep people quiet about it? Digging a tunnel generally means thousands of people or hundreds of people involved, and they all sort of know, like where the tunnel is being dug to So my first question would be the people who were all digging the tunnel, what keeps them quiet? Why aren't they any of them sort of spilling the beans on it.

Let me just step back to the Berlin tunnel, which is actually really interesting. So right, like in the early fifties when the CIA was new, the President said, you know all I want from this new CIA, this Eisenhower is twenty four hours notice when the Russians are coming across the border. There was a great fear that they were coming, and essentially the US intelligence had no input into what Moscow was thinking and when the Red hordes were coming, and so came up with the idea at the Berlin CIA office there to dig this tunnel from West Berlin under the on into East Berlin so that they could tap into the East German phone lines and get a hold of Soviet communications in that type of stuff.

Let me just step back to the Berlin tunnel, which is actually really interesting. So right, like in the early fifties when the CIA was new, the President said, you know all I want from this new CIA, this Eisenhower is twenty four hours notice when the Russians are coming across the border. There was a great fear that they were coming, and essentially the US intelligence had no input into what Moscow was thinking and when the Red hordes were coming, and so came up with the idea at the Berlin CIA office there to dig this tunnel from West Berlin under the on into East Berlin so that they could tap into the East German phone lines and get a hold of Soviet communications in that type of stuff.

So you're telling me, John, this tunnel was so secret that Russians didn't know about it.

So you're telling me, John, this tunnel was so secret that Russians didn't know about it.

Well, that's what makes this into a more interesting story is because the Russians had a spy who was a British intelligence officer who was recruited by the Soviets when he was a prisoner of war in North Korea during the Korean War, right who spilled the beans on the tunnel, so that senior Soviet officials knew about the tunnel, but in their effort to keep it secret, they allowed it to go forward. And so I don't think they realized at the time just how much intelligence that the West got out of the tunnel. But one of the things they hadn't prepared for is when the first snow came all of a sudden, when they looked at out of the windows from West Berlin where they were, they noticed that the snow went everywhere, but there was this long stretch of grass where the heat from the tunnel had come up and melted the snow. They went out and played football on the snow to try to mess it all up.

Well, that's what makes this into a more interesting story is because the Russians had a spy who was a British intelligence officer who was recruited by the Soviets when he was a prisoner of war in North Korea during the Korean War, right who spilled the beans on the tunnel, so that senior Soviet officials knew about the tunnel, but in their effort to keep it secret, they allowed it to go forward. And so I don't think they realized at the time just how much intelligence that the West got out of the tunnel. But one of the things they hadn't prepared for is when the first snow came all of a sudden, when they looked at out of the windows from West Berlin where they were, they noticed that the snow went everywhere, but there was this long stretch of grass where the heat from the tunnel had come up and melted the snow. They went out and played football on the snow to try to mess it all up.

So the lesson from this just past being prologue is that when the CIA dug a tunnel in the nineteen fifties that was incredibly important, super secret. Everything involved in this was hush hush. The Russians knew about it before they even dug it.

So the lesson from this just past being prologue is that when the CIA dug a tunnel in the nineteen fifties that was incredibly important, super secret. Everything involved in this was hush hush. The Russians knew about it before they even dug it.

So you're suggesting that it's hard to keep something secret.

So you're suggesting that it's hard to keep something secret.

I'm suggesting it's hard to keep something secret. Even when you're in the conspiracy business.

I'm suggesting it's hard to keep something secret. Even when you're in the conspiracy business.

You're not going to get any arguments from me. But there's two things I think that like, why would conspiracy like this come along? And why do these things sort of gain traction? I think there's two things that sort of fit with what we learned from looking at these other.

You're not going to get any arguments from me. But there's two things I think that like, why would conspiracy like this come along? And why do these things sort of gain traction? I think there's two things that sort of fit with what we learned from looking at these other.

Conspiracies too is one of them.

Conspiracies too is one of them.

It deals with secrecy, right, so there's this secret place in there and when another secrecy, people fill that void of what they don't know with sometimes conspiracies. And the other one is we're talking about the elite, that there's some band of people that are making big decisions that sort of control things. You know, the world looks chaotic and it looks messy, but there must be somebody controlling it. And these elite have this special knowledge and they need to hide, and they need to hide under the Denver Airport.

It deals with secrecy, right, so there's this secret place in there and when another secrecy, people fill that void of what they don't know with sometimes conspiracies. And the other one is we're talking about the elite, that there's some band of people that are making big decisions that sort of control things. You know, the world looks chaotic and it looks messy, but there must be somebody controlling it. And these elite have this special knowledge and they need to hide, and they need to hide under the Denver Airport.

Why Denver one is.

Why Denver one is.

Because it's just this massive, massive air was a massive construction effort, and then there was this supposedly revolutionary baggage system that was all this underground series of tunnels and things that very quickly the public was told it didn't work and was closed up. So maybe people thought that was a cover up for something else that was going onto there. It couldn't be that screwed up. Of course, we work in the government, so we know things actually can be screwed up. I think Denver makes sense in the fact that it's sort of between the coasts. I mean, if you need to get somewhere quick, an airport is a good place.

Because it's just this massive, massive air was a massive construction effort, and then there was this supposedly revolutionary baggage system that was all this underground series of tunnels and things that very quickly the public was told it didn't work and was closed up. So maybe people thought that was a cover up for something else that was going onto there. It couldn't be that screwed up. Of course, we work in the government, so we know things actually can be screwed up. I think Denver makes sense in the fact that it's sort of between the coasts. I mean, if you need to get somewhere quick, an airport is a good place.

To get to.

To get to.

Right, all right, Joed, let's get onto our guest today, Stacey Stegmant. So today we'd like to welcome Stacy Stegman, who's senior vice president of Communication, Marketing and Customer Experience at Denver International Airport. And from what we hear as well, you were a real who to talk with about conspiracy theories having to do with Denver, something that you get a lot of. Huh.

Right, all right, Joed, let's get onto our guest today, Stacey Stegmant. So today we'd like to welcome Stacy Stegman, who's senior vice president of Communication, Marketing and Customer Experience at Denver International Airport. And from what we hear as well, you were a real who to talk with about conspiracy theories having to do with Denver, something that you get a lot of. Huh.

So.

So.

I started here in this position about ten years ago, and when I started, the team that I worked with was very in to disputing every conspiracy that they have ever heard and pushing back when we got questions from the public or passengers, and I kind of thought, why are we doing that. Let's have some fun with it, and let's talk about it and make it part of who we are and part of our brand, and you'll see people coming through the terminal looking for where's the time capsule or what does door for sixteen go to? And you see those people and I was like, let's embrace it.

I started here in this position about ten years ago, and when I started, the team that I worked with was very in to disputing every conspiracy that they have ever heard and pushing back when we got questions from the public or passengers, and I kind of thought, why are we doing that. Let's have some fun with it, and let's talk about it and make it part of who we are and part of our brand, and you'll see people coming through the terminal looking for where's the time capsule or what does door for sixteen go to? And you see those people and I was like, let's embrace it.

Stacy, can you explain for us to the uninitiated, what are the conspiracy theories the main ones that fly around Dunray Airport.

Stacy, can you explain for us to the uninitiated, what are the conspiracy theories the main ones that fly around Dunray Airport.

The one that seems to be most prevalent is that we are housing underground bunkers for the new World Order, for the world's elite to come. When the end of the world happens, those that have the Golden ticket get to come here to the Denver Airport to be safe underground. Why everything is destroyed around us? There are a number of conspiracy theories about our public art that they depict to the end of the world, and it depicts the end of society coming as sort of a preview of what's to come.

The one that seems to be most prevalent is that we are housing underground bunkers for the new World Order, for the world's elite to come. When the end of the world happens, those that have the Golden ticket get to come here to the Denver Airport to be safe underground. Why everything is destroyed around us? There are a number of conspiracy theories about our public art that they depict to the end of the world, and it depicts the end of society coming as sort of a preview of what's to come.

I think it stems back to when this airport was built.

I think it stems back to when this airport was built.

Remember this is the newest, larger airport in the US, and so when it was put under construction, it was moved miles out here to the eastern planes of the state where nothing existed. There are a series of tunnels that run under the airport because of the baggage system that was built at the time and running baggage tugs and things like that underground. And then just that we're connected to every military base around here, that there's some underground system of tunnels that connect us to nora Ad and the Air Force Academy and Buckley Air Force Base and all of them. But you can't help but to find interest in some of these. I mean the art itself, when you just see it, there's some things that I could understand why someone thinks they look odd. We have another piece of art by a Chicano artist that is the one that everybody comes and wants to take a look at, and it's called Children of the World Dream of Peace.

Remember this is the newest, larger airport in the US, and so when it was put under construction, it was moved miles out here to the eastern planes of the state where nothing existed. There are a series of tunnels that run under the airport because of the baggage system that was built at the time and running baggage tugs and things like that underground. And then just that we're connected to every military base around here, that there's some underground system of tunnels that connect us to nora Ad and the Air Force Academy and Buckley Air Force Base and all of them. But you can't help but to find interest in some of these. I mean the art itself, when you just see it, there's some things that I could understand why someone thinks they look odd. We have another piece of art by a Chicano artist that is the one that everybody comes and wants to take a look at, and it's called Children of the World Dream of Peace.

But it's all.

But it's all.

About showing one when we're all living in peace and harmony and there's no war, how everyone gets a long life's beautiful, everyone's together. But then it also shows when you are in war, what's that death and destruction. And there's some images in it that are disturbing. I mean, there's a man with a gas mask on and carrying a big machete. You can understand how people are a little intimidated by that or question it.

About showing one when we're all living in peace and harmony and there's no war, how everyone gets a long life's beautiful, everyone's together. But then it also shows when you are in war, what's that death and destruction. And there's some images in it that are disturbing. I mean, there's a man with a gas mask on and carrying a big machete. You can understand how people are a little intimidated by that or question it.

So Sace, I have to ask about the horse. Everybody sees it coming in, this incredible blue horse with red eyes, all sorts of legends around it. What can you tell us you that.

So Sace, I have to ask about the horse. Everybody sees it coming in, this incredible blue horse with red eyes, all sorts of legends around it. What can you tell us you that.

Is probably our crown jewel in the art program. It's a sculpture by Luis Jimenez. The horse is called Mustang. He's a thirty two foot blue mustang sculpture with glowing red eyes. We look at him as the sort of fierce protector of the airport. But what did happen while he was being built? It was overschedule. The airport was sort of pushing the artist to get this piece done. The artist was working on the horse out of his studio in Hondo, New Mexico, and he had a piece of the horse that was on a strap and the strap broke, the peace swung and it killed him. And so there's quite a few stories about that.

Is probably our crown jewel in the art program. It's a sculpture by Luis Jimenez. The horse is called Mustang. He's a thirty two foot blue mustang sculpture with glowing red eyes. We look at him as the sort of fierce protector of the airport. But what did happen while he was being built? It was overschedule. The airport was sort of pushing the artist to get this piece done. The artist was working on the horse out of his studio in Hondo, New Mexico, and he had a piece of the horse that was on a strap and the strap broke, the peace swung and it killed him. And so there's quite a few stories about that.

So I think we need to rip the band aid off here and talk about Jesse Ventura. So is he a lizard person?

So I think we need to rip the band aid off here and talk about Jesse Ventura. So is he a lizard person?

You know, that's just on my list of questions I have about Jesse Ventura.

You know, that's just on my list of questions I have about Jesse Ventura.

So why did you take us through the Jesse Venturer? I think he sort of turbo charged this way.

So why did you take us through the Jesse Venturer? I think he sort of turbo charged this way.

I mean it was the same many many years ago.

I mean it was the same many many years ago.

He had heard the conspiracies, made a trip out here to Denver, I spent some time, ran a whole story on his show about all of the ominous things going on here at the airport, and it just went from there.

He had heard the conspiracies, made a trip out here to Denver, I spent some time, ran a whole story on his show about all of the ominous things going on here at the airport, and it just went from there.

Not everybody may remember who Jesse Ventura is, but the short version is he was a Worldwide Wrestling Federation superstar who later became a politician and became governor of the Great State of Minnesota. He was also the Navy seal during Vietnam. After his time as governor of Minnesota, Jesse went on to both work at Harvard and later become a conspiracy theorist who has become particularly obsessed with Denver Airport. Let's listen to a clip from Jesse Ventura's show in twenty eleven.

Not everybody may remember who Jesse Ventura is, but the short version is he was a Worldwide Wrestling Federation superstar who later became a politician and became governor of the Great State of Minnesota. He was also the Navy seal during Vietnam. After his time as governor of Minnesota, Jesse went on to both work at Harvard and later become a conspiracy theorist who has become particularly obsessed with Denver Airport. Let's listen to a clip from Jesse Ventura's show in twenty eleven.

Hidden power, secrets, cover ups, corruption, You think you know the whole story, Faint or gain a doomsday conspiracy. The government want to save the elite, but not you do. Our leaders think they can build bunkers for a select few and leave the rest of us to fend for ourselves.

Hidden power, secrets, cover ups, corruption, You think you know the whole story, Faint or gain a doomsday conspiracy. The government want to save the elite, but not you do. Our leaders think they can build bunkers for a select few and leave the rest of us to fend for ourselves.

So you deal a lot with conspiracy theories. Having to do with like tunnels that reach like one hundred miles, right, don't you up to Nora d So what can you tell us about the tunnels at the airport and what you know about sort of the tunneling conspiracies there.

So you deal a lot with conspiracy theories. Having to do with like tunnels that reach like one hundred miles, right, don't you up to Nora d So what can you tell us about the tunnels at the airport and what you know about sort of the tunneling conspiracies there.

It's probably the most requested tour I get from anyone that elected officials, anyone that lives here locally, or just like can you take us down to the tunnel? And when I take down, it's it's such a sense of disappointment from them because they keep thinking they're going to see something much more exciting. You know, our tunnels they're large and lengthy, but so it's our airport and there's just a system to run baggage tugs through. You see, you know, everybody driving their tugs down there, and it's populated and busy with everybody going everywhere. I mean, we, you know, are an incredibly busy airport, serving close to seventy million people last year. And so that's what I laugh about it, and like there's not a space really that it doesn't have some sort of activity going on. Another very disturbing one that we hear a lot is that our runways are shaped like a swastika. We have six runways that you know, run every direction, and that's because of the winds here on the eastern plane and being able to be most efficient, to be able for takeoff in landings and allows you know, the FAA to pivot quickly based on weather conditions.

It's probably the most requested tour I get from anyone that elected officials, anyone that lives here locally, or just like can you take us down to the tunnel? And when I take down, it's it's such a sense of disappointment from them because they keep thinking they're going to see something much more exciting. You know, our tunnels they're large and lengthy, but so it's our airport and there's just a system to run baggage tugs through. You see, you know, everybody driving their tugs down there, and it's populated and busy with everybody going everywhere. I mean, we, you know, are an incredibly busy airport, serving close to seventy million people last year. And so that's what I laugh about it, and like there's not a space really that it doesn't have some sort of activity going on. Another very disturbing one that we hear a lot is that our runways are shaped like a swastika. We have six runways that you know, run every direction, and that's because of the winds here on the eastern plane and being able to be most efficient, to be able for takeoff in landings and allows you know, the FAA to pivot quickly based on weather conditions.

The thing about being a successful operation is no one is supposed to know. So if you're running a SECRETCYI operation, you don't put clues out for for people to see all the time, right, you don't want anybody to know.

The thing about being a successful operation is no one is supposed to know. So if you're running a SECRETCYI operation, you don't put clues out for for people to see all the time, right, you don't want anybody to know.

The clue is that there are no clues.

The clue is that there are no clues.

I mean, I guess anything's possible, but I will say I've spent plenty of time underground looking at what's going on because I'm nosy too.

I mean, I guess anything's possible, but I will say I've spent plenty of time underground looking at what's going on because I'm nosy too.

I want to know what the heck's going on under there.

I want to know what the heck's going on under there.

You can imagine the size of what a facility would actually take. You know, there's gosh, almost forty thousand people that work here at the airport. Just for those people alone, trying to hide it from the workers, that would be a pretty tricky thing.

You can imagine the size of what a facility would actually take. You know, there's gosh, almost forty thousand people that work here at the airport. Just for those people alone, trying to hide it from the workers, that would be a pretty tricky thing.

There would be some indication of something.

There would be some indication of something.

Well.

Well.

Stacy, thanks so much for taking the time to speak with this. It sounds like you have a fun job there in a neat place, and we're glad that you guys are taking it with a grain of salt, and so thanks so much for being our guest. And now we're going to take a break.

Stacy, thanks so much for taking the time to speak with this. It sounds like you have a fun job there in a neat place, and we're glad that you guys are taking it with a grain of salt, and so thanks so much for being our guest. And now we're going to take a break.

Let's talk to our producer, John Start. Thanks guys. So there's a lot of people that know a lot.

Let's talk to our producer, John Start. Thanks guys. So there's a lot of people that know a lot.

About Denver International Airport, and one of the first people I talked to is a reporter for The New York Times, saying, Tiffany Shoe, she's been obsessed with the airport ever since she went to it for a bachelorette party.

About Denver International Airport, and one of the first people I talked to is a reporter for The New York Times, saying, Tiffany Shoe, she's been obsessed with the airport ever since she went to it for a bachelorette party.

The bachelorette party wasn't in the airport. She was traveling through the airport.

The bachelorette party wasn't in the airport. She was traveling through the airport.

Clearly to a club or a bar, or who knows a petting zoo. Petting zoo is what they call strip clubs since Denver.

Clearly to a club or a bar, or who knows a petting zoo. Petting zoo is what they call strip clubs since Denver.

I'm Tiffany Schue. I'm a reporter for the Tech team of the New York Times, and I focus on miss and disinformation, which means I write frequently about fault narratives and rumors and conspiracy theories.

I'm Tiffany Schue. I'm a reporter for the Tech team of the New York Times, and I focus on miss and disinformation, which means I write frequently about fault narratives and rumors and conspiracy theories.

What's your impression of how prevalent this is and how much people believe it?

What's your impression of how prevalent this is and how much people believe it?

You know, it's funny in my job when I talk to people and say I'm writing about these narratives and.

You know, it's funny in my job when I talk to people and say I'm writing about these narratives and.

I focus on misinformation.

I focus on misinformation.

Usually people would be kind of hesitant about admitting that they believe something, or they'll kind of slowly and delicately.

Usually people would be kind of hesitant about admitting that they believe something, or they'll kind of slowly and delicately.

Work it in.

Work it in.

At the Denver Airport, the number of people who are off the bat like, oh yeah, that's totally true was really striking. A lot of people think that there are hundreds of miles of tunnels underneath the airport that stretch to places like Norrad and Colorado Springs. They say that they're full of things called dums, which are deep underground military bunkers that are used by the world elite as a place to go in times of apocalypse or to hold secret meetings that can't be traced. There is a plaque and I didn't see it myself, but apparently it says that the airport was funded by the New World Airport Commission, which I guess doesn't exist, and a lot of people interpret that lack as being a reference to the New World Order.

At the Denver Airport, the number of people who are off the bat like, oh yeah, that's totally true was really striking. A lot of people think that there are hundreds of miles of tunnels underneath the airport that stretch to places like Norrad and Colorado Springs. They say that they're full of things called dums, which are deep underground military bunkers that are used by the world elite as a place to go in times of apocalypse or to hold secret meetings that can't be traced. There is a plaque and I didn't see it myself, but apparently it says that the airport was funded by the New World Airport Commission, which I guess doesn't exist, and a lot of people interpret that lack as being a reference to the New World Order.

You know, it's the elite cabal that runs the world behind the scenes. And you know, I did hear another theory that suggested that the size of the airport is meant to allow it to double as a prison camp for when the New World Order takes over. A suppose of all of the fencing around the perimeter of the airport has barbed war that faces inwards to keep people from escaping. I was sitting in the office of the head of Comms for the airport, Stacy Stegman, and I looked out at a pretty long starch of fence with barboarre on top, and it definitely does not face inward.

You know, it's the elite cabal that runs the world behind the scenes. And you know, I did hear another theory that suggested that the size of the airport is meant to allow it to double as a prison camp for when the New World Order takes over. A suppose of all of the fencing around the perimeter of the airport has barbed war that faces inwards to keep people from escaping. I was sitting in the office of the head of Comms for the airport, Stacy Stegman, and I looked out at a pretty long starch of fence with barboarre on top, and it definitely does not face inward.

So you've got a tour, Could you tell me what you saw when you had your tour?

So you've got a tour, Could you tell me what you saw when you had your tour?

You see like little parking areas for other golf cart type vehicles.

You see like little parking areas for other golf cart type vehicles.

You see people like living around doing whatever.

You see people like living around doing whatever.

You know, there are a.

You know, there are a.

Lot of like little doors set off to the side.

Lot of like little doors set off to the side.

But you know, I can't see anything even remotely suspicious down there. I could never really understand with the Denver Airport Tunnel theory specifically, like how how would you keep something like this quiet?

But you know, I can't see anything even remotely suspicious down there. I could never really understand with the Denver Airport Tunnel theory specifically, like how how would you keep something like this quiet?

I guess they're all really reliable collaborators.

I guess they're all really reliable collaborators.

Those nbas are ironclat.

Those nbas are ironclat.

Now I want to talk to people who are real experts on building survival bunkers, people that can explain all that goes into it. Turns out that there isn't really anyone building it at this scale, but it was interesting.

Now I want to talk to people who are real experts on building survival bunkers, people that can explain all that goes into it. Turns out that there isn't really anyone building it at this scale, but it was interesting.

Nonetheless, I am the executive director for Vivos. I'm also the director of Operations at VIVOS Xpoint, which is the world's largest survival community located in the Black Hills of South Dakota. So Vivos is the world's largest bunker company and that involves making bunkers, retrofitting and building communities around survivals. And Xpoint is a facility located in South Dakota in the Black Hills. It was originally designated the Black Hills Ordnance Depot by the Army Corps of Engineers and built for the US's involvement in World War Two as a major munitions factory. We are now converting that heavily heavily fortified location from its original purpose to store bombs into protecting and sheltering people from whatever may come. We are also involved other places around the country with all in one bunkers that typically were from the Cold War era, designing them to be completely self sufficient for a minimum of one year of autonomous lockdown survivability. And we're also involved in different countries around the world because there is worldwide demand for a solid and reliable, comfortable shelter solution for the masses. We just started going around the country and around the world finding pre existing military spec bunkers that were getting auctioned or you know, had been decommissioned in one way or the other. We spect these bunkers to be survivable for a minimum of one year of autonomous lockdown, right, right, So think about all you need for a year. There's a lot that goes into that. It's no secret that Bill Gates, for example, and really any one percent or I would imagine you know, the elites of the world. You know, Bill Gates has bunkers in his mansions for him and his personnel, his family. The whole thing is probably you know, this triple a level of just perfection, five star just luxury and also while being survivable.

Nonetheless, I am the executive director for Vivos. I'm also the director of Operations at VIVOS Xpoint, which is the world's largest survival community located in the Black Hills of South Dakota. So Vivos is the world's largest bunker company and that involves making bunkers, retrofitting and building communities around survivals. And Xpoint is a facility located in South Dakota in the Black Hills. It was originally designated the Black Hills Ordnance Depot by the Army Corps of Engineers and built for the US's involvement in World War Two as a major munitions factory. We are now converting that heavily heavily fortified location from its original purpose to store bombs into protecting and sheltering people from whatever may come. We are also involved other places around the country with all in one bunkers that typically were from the Cold War era, designing them to be completely self sufficient for a minimum of one year of autonomous lockdown survivability. And we're also involved in different countries around the world because there is worldwide demand for a solid and reliable, comfortable shelter solution for the masses. We just started going around the country and around the world finding pre existing military spec bunkers that were getting auctioned or you know, had been decommissioned in one way or the other. We spect these bunkers to be survivable for a minimum of one year of autonomous lockdown, right, right, So think about all you need for a year. There's a lot that goes into that. It's no secret that Bill Gates, for example, and really any one percent or I would imagine you know, the elites of the world. You know, Bill Gates has bunkers in his mansions for him and his personnel, his family. The whole thing is probably you know, this triple a level of just perfection, five star just luxury and also while being survivable.

So something that big would be something probably only a government could do exactly.

So something that big would be something probably only a government could do exactly.

Yeah, and they prove in time and again that they can and they will do it.

Yeah, and they prove in time and again that they can and they will do it.

So you need a lot of space, sounds like you need a lot of labor.

So you need a lot of space, sounds like you need a lot of labor.

There's so much that goes into stuff.

There's so much that goes into stuff.

Well, that kind of brings us into our big question for this episode, which is, how would you do it. Now, if you needed to build a super large, several hundred thousand square foot yeah bunker from scratch, where would you do it, How would you do it, How long would it take, what resources would it take?

Well, that kind of brings us into our big question for this episode, which is, how would you do it. Now, if you needed to build a super large, several hundred thousand square foot yeah bunker from scratch, where would you do it, How would you do it, How long would it take, what resources would it take?

You know, we would start with understanding who we're making this for and how many people are going to be using it. You would want to scope out your local You would want to know that you have access to fresh water, that you have soil that's acceptable for septic systems, and things like that. Also, make sure that when your construction trucks are driving in and you got trailers pulling excavators and that sort of stuff, that the neighbors don't know what's going on. Make sure you don't have any neighbors in that particular area, because the last thing you would want is people catching up to the fact that you have this and here it is.

You know, we would start with understanding who we're making this for and how many people are going to be using it. You would want to scope out your local You would want to know that you have access to fresh water, that you have soil that's acceptable for septic systems, and things like that. Also, make sure that when your construction trucks are driving in and you got trailers pulling excavators and that sort of stuff, that the neighbors don't know what's going on. Make sure you don't have any neighbors in that particular area, because the last thing you would want is people catching up to the fact that you have this and here it is.

Do you think there are secret megabunkers that we don't know about?

Do you think there are secret megabunkers that we don't know about?

Oh? Hell yeah, I don't even need to go grab my tinfoil hat for that. Hell yeah there are. And I'm sure they are already working on facilities that'll make no rad look like a kindergartener built it out of legos or something.

Oh? Hell yeah, I don't even need to go grab my tinfoil hat for that. Hell yeah there are. And I'm sure they are already working on facilities that'll make no rad look like a kindergartener built it out of legos or something.

How do they keep it secret?

How do they keep it secret?

Yeah?

Yeah?

How do they?

How do they?

Right?

Right?

Yeah? I mean, well that's the thing too, is Hey, maybe you and I are talking about Denver Airport because it's a smoke screen, you know what I mean. Maybe there's something else.

Yeah? I mean, well that's the thing too, is Hey, maybe you and I are talking about Denver Airport because it's a smoke screen, you know what I mean. Maybe there's something else.

So Vivos actually repurposes former military bases or other underground facilities rather than build them from scratch. And people who are actually already living in some in South Dakota just because they're why not, you're already paying for it. So I talked to one other person whose company builds smaller bunkers and delivers them to you, and then you dig a hole and you put them underground, probably in your backyard.

So Vivos actually repurposes former military bases or other underground facilities rather than build them from scratch. And people who are actually already living in some in South Dakota just because they're why not, you're already paying for it. So I talked to one other person whose company builds smaller bunkers and delivers them to you, and then you dig a hole and you put them underground, probably in your backyard.

I remember Malcolm in the Middle.

I remember Malcolm in the Middle.

They had one.

They had one.

Hell used to go down there to read Dirty magazine so his wife didn't see him.

Hell used to go down there to read Dirty magazine so his wife didn't see him.

I'm Gary Lanch. I'm a general manager Rising S Company. The industry were known as Rising S bunkers. We build a lot of Actually all we build are underground structures designed to save your life in a catastrophic event. Doesn't matter if it's a nuclear war or a social underrest, a hurricane, a tornado, or what have you. You know, they're designed to save your life. Being hidden away and safely put underground.

I'm Gary Lanch. I'm a general manager Rising S Company. The industry were known as Rising S bunkers. We build a lot of Actually all we build are underground structures designed to save your life in a catastrophic event. Doesn't matter if it's a nuclear war or a social underrest, a hurricane, a tornado, or what have you. You know, they're designed to save your life. Being hidden away and safely put underground.

To worry about the concept that is out there is that the largest bunker in North America was built underneath the Denver International Airport. I guess my first question to you is is that feasible?

To worry about the concept that is out there is that the largest bunker in North America was built underneath the Denver International Airport. I guess my first question to you is is that feasible?

Oh?

Oh?

Yeah, absolutely, you're talking are you asking without people really knowing about it?

Yeah, absolutely, you're talking are you asking without people really knowing about it?

Well, that's part two of the question.

Well, that's part two of the question.

Broad open daylight right in front of them, you know, especially at an airport where or none of us can just go drive and roam around. Even the employees that work there, they don't have free range to just go roam around. So there's no better environment to do it right out in the open than an international airport.

Broad open daylight right in front of them, you know, especially at an airport where or none of us can just go drive and roam around. Even the employees that work there, they don't have free range to just go roam around. So there's no better environment to do it right out in the open than an international airport.

I think it's very feasible.

I think it's very feasible.

Do I know it exists?

Do I know it exists?

No?

No?

I mean, you know, I saw the Jesse Ventura episode of some of the things that I saw in there made sense to me in.

I mean, you know, I saw the Jesse Ventura episode of some of the things that I saw in there made sense to me in.

Your opinion, Is there a good reason to build it under that airport instead of somewhere else?

Your opinion, Is there a good reason to build it under that airport instead of somewhere else?

Thinking on a grand scale of things, the airport is probably out going to guess twenty miles from the nearest what would be foothill to the mountains. Typically government markers are or deep inside of the earth, and one way to get deep inside the earth is into mountains.

Thinking on a grand scale of things, the airport is probably out going to guess twenty miles from the nearest what would be foothill to the mountains. Typically government markers are or deep inside of the earth, and one way to get deep inside the earth is into mountains.

Maybe it's close enough that it's you.

Maybe it's close enough that it's you.

Know that everything under Denner Airport maybe could possibly just be tunnels leading to other areas. Obviously, it's more costly to go deep than it is horizontal. I mean, think about that. You've got an airport, it's not too far from center from the United States, easily accessible from a lot of major cities. You land right there and immediately retreat underground to destination unknown.

Know that everything under Denner Airport maybe could possibly just be tunnels leading to other areas. Obviously, it's more costly to go deep than it is horizontal. I mean, think about that. You've got an airport, it's not too far from center from the United States, easily accessible from a lot of major cities. You land right there and immediately retreat underground to destination unknown.

I guess the other part part of keeping it secret is all the people that worked on the construction. But I suppose you don't necessarily know what you're digging down for what you're building.

I guess the other part part of keeping it secret is all the people that worked on the construction. But I suppose you don't necessarily know what you're digging down for what you're building.

Well, I mean, let's just say that I've contracted you to dig a tunnel, and I'm going to tell you that this is for emergency response. It's going to sing completely plausible to you, and you're going to do it, and your guys are going to know what they're doing there, emergency response tunnels. Okay, Well, now here comes a guy coming in for phase two. We're going to need you to to do X, and it may not directly connect to phase one. Then you bring in four, five, six, eight, ten. However, many contractors. You's got maybe contractor three comes in and ties these two points together, but because of his doors, he doesn't know what he's tying together. I can tell him, you know, that's this radio communication for the airport. This is a emergency response tunnel. So you piece it together and you piece it out, and not any one person knows everything.

Well, I mean, let's just say that I've contracted you to dig a tunnel, and I'm going to tell you that this is for emergency response. It's going to sing completely plausible to you, and you're going to do it, and your guys are going to know what they're doing there, emergency response tunnels. Okay, Well, now here comes a guy coming in for phase two. We're going to need you to to do X, and it may not directly connect to phase one. Then you bring in four, five, six, eight, ten. However, many contractors. You's got maybe contractor three comes in and ties these two points together, but because of his doors, he doesn't know what he's tying together. I can tell him, you know, that's this radio communication for the airport. This is a emergency response tunnel. So you piece it together and you piece it out, and not any one person knows everything.

So John, I know you've done some research on this. Can you give us a little bit of an outline of what you learned?

So John, I know you've done some research on this. Can you give us a little bit of an outline of what you learned?

Well, the government certainly is capable of doing this. They've done it before with NORAD in Cheyenne Mountain, which is what only twenty miles from Denver Inton National Airport, that was built under two thousand feet of granite. It's five acres. There's fifteen three story buildings protected from earthquakes, nuclear weapons. So compared to that in underground shelter ten feet below an airport runway, that seems like pretty doable. There is a place in the Czech Republic called the a Podium and from the air it looks just like an administration center and it was a secret facility in nineteen eighty four, at the height of the Cold War. It's carved deep in a Mountain and it's the largest residential doomsday shelter in the world. How about the raven Rock Mountain Complex. Raven Rock is where Dick Cheney was taken on nine to eleven when they needed to put them in a secret facility. It's in Greenbrier, West Virginia. Apparently I went to summer camp, probably spitting distance from there. No one is aware of what it looks like what it is. It's also only six miles away from Camp David. It's basically a freestanding city in another hollowdown mountain location.

Well, the government certainly is capable of doing this. They've done it before with NORAD in Cheyenne Mountain, which is what only twenty miles from Denver Inton National Airport, that was built under two thousand feet of granite. It's five acres. There's fifteen three story buildings protected from earthquakes, nuclear weapons. So compared to that in underground shelter ten feet below an airport runway, that seems like pretty doable. There is a place in the Czech Republic called the a Podium and from the air it looks just like an administration center and it was a secret facility in nineteen eighty four, at the height of the Cold War. It's carved deep in a Mountain and it's the largest residential doomsday shelter in the world. How about the raven Rock Mountain Complex. Raven Rock is where Dick Cheney was taken on nine to eleven when they needed to put them in a secret facility. It's in Greenbrier, West Virginia. Apparently I went to summer camp, probably spitting distance from there. No one is aware of what it looks like what it is. It's also only six miles away from Camp David. It's basically a freestanding city in another hollowdown mountain location.

It can hold as many as five thousand people. Guys. The irs also had to play.

It can hold as many as five thousand people. Guys. The irs also had to play.

In the nineteen seventies in case there is a nuclear apocalypse.

In the nineteen seventies in case there is a nuclear apocalypse.

They still wanted to collect taxes.

They still wanted to collect taxes.

They figure they needed two billion dollars in cash to get them through eighteen months before they could start printing. Presses up again to start printing new money, and oddly was almost all two dollar bills because this was after America reintroduced a two dollar bill and no one wanted them. The National Archives also had a plan for if there was a nuclear attack.

They figure they needed two billion dollars in cash to get them through eighteen months before they could start printing. Presses up again to start printing new money, and oddly was almost all two dollar bills because this was after America reintroduced a two dollar bill and no one wanted them. The National Archives also had a plan for if there was a nuclear attack.

The attitude between saving.

The attitude between saving.

The Declaration of Independence or the Constitution, which one.

The Declaration of Independence or the Constitution, which one.

Do you think they chose constitution. I would be the constitution. Nope, declaration of independence.

Do you think they chose constitution. I would be the constitution. Nope, declaration of independence.

They could care less about the constitution, apparently like some of our politicians today.

They could care less about the constitution, apparently like some of our politicians today.

So John, in light of all this, what's your overall conclusion, Well, it's certainly feasible.

So John, in light of all this, what's your overall conclusion, Well, it's certainly feasible.

Obviously, the government can build anything, right if they put their resources to it. Cut and cover is much cheaper and easier than digging into the side of a mountain or digging down. Cut and cover is how they built most of the New York City subway, which is where you just dig down from surface, go down, build your thing, put a roof on it, cover it with dirt, cover it with the road whatever. To me, it sounds like a pretty economical way to do it. And if you're building it near nor d and this airport is one of the easiest places in the country for everyone to get to to fly into. It's an enormous airfield. If you wanted to build this, this is certainly a pretty good way to do it. So maybe the bigger question is whether they would have built something at all, and if they did, if we'd know about it.

Obviously, the government can build anything, right if they put their resources to it. Cut and cover is much cheaper and easier than digging into the side of a mountain or digging down. Cut and cover is how they built most of the New York City subway, which is where you just dig down from surface, go down, build your thing, put a roof on it, cover it with dirt, cover it with the road whatever. To me, it sounds like a pretty economical way to do it. And if you're building it near nor d and this airport is one of the easiest places in the country for everyone to get to to fly into. It's an enormous airfield. If you wanted to build this, this is certainly a pretty good way to do it. So maybe the bigger question is whether they would have built something at all, and if they did, if we'd know about it.

Good point.

Good point.

I remember I lived in Belgrade and Yugoslavia. I had this big, old, sort of odd looking house. But in the basement there was a room whoever had built this place that was already built there with this big, massive bank vault door and this concrete room that had a tunnel that went out into the out back into the yards. You could come out in some great way on the other side of the yard. I never was able to use it, but the kids had a great fun plan, and.

I remember I lived in Belgrade and Yugoslavia. I had this big, old, sort of odd looking house. But in the basement there was a room whoever had built this place that was already built there with this big, massive bank vault door and this concrete room that had a tunnel that went out into the out back into the yards. You could come out in some great way on the other side of the yard. I never was able to use it, but the kids had a great fun plan, and.

I have to say I had one of those too, doesn't everybody. When I lived in Berlin, we had housing that the US authorities had taken from the Nazis after World War Two. The Nazis had these houses because they had taken them from Jews and political prisoners and didn't pay for them. And the house I lived in two different two two different houses, both of them in the basement hit these huge vault doors and rooms in there so when the Russians came through they could hide. I wouldn't want to spend two weeks in there.

I have to say I had one of those too, doesn't everybody. When I lived in Berlin, we had housing that the US authorities had taken from the Nazis after World War Two. The Nazis had these houses because they had taken them from Jews and political prisoners and didn't pay for them. And the house I lived in two different two two different houses, both of them in the basement hit these huge vault doors and rooms in there so when the Russians came through they could hide. I wouldn't want to spend two weeks in there.

I'd say that, Well, thank you, John, that was interesting. And we're going to take a break, and when we come back, we're going to speak with our other producer, Adam Davidson.

I'd say that, Well, thank you, John, that was interesting. And we're going to take a break, and when we come back, we're going to speak with our other producer, Adam Davidson.

Hey, and how's it going?

Hey, and how's it going?

Guys?

Guys?

Whenever I try and make sense of these conspiracy theories, you know, one of my first questions is what's the problem they're trying to solve? And then we go into the other questions, is this the best way to solve the problem? I got to say, unlike most of the conspiracy theories, there is a problem they're trying to solve. Right, we do have continuity of government plans. We do have plans for what to do with the president, with Congress, with senior bureaucratic, technocratic leaders in case of a nuclear war.

Whenever I try and make sense of these conspiracy theories, you know, one of my first questions is what's the problem they're trying to solve? And then we go into the other questions, is this the best way to solve the problem? I got to say, unlike most of the conspiracy theories, there is a problem they're trying to solve. Right, we do have continuity of government plans. We do have plans for what to do with the president, with Congress, with senior bureaucratic, technocratic leaders in case of a nuclear war.

Or some other event. Right, that does exist.

Or some other event. Right, that does exist.

From what I understand, And a lot of these conspiracy theories come from people seeing things, mysterious things, odd things at the airport and then extrapolating those into what the theories are. So, for example, there's the famous horse out in front of it. People see this and they think it can't just be a blue horse with a red eye. There needs to be a deeper explanation for this, And it seems what happens is these are a set of a set of observations looking for a problem to solve.

From what I understand, And a lot of these conspiracy theories come from people seeing things, mysterious things, odd things at the airport and then extrapolating those into what the theories are. So, for example, there's the famous horse out in front of it. People see this and they think it can't just be a blue horse with a red eye. There needs to be a deeper explanation for this, And it seems what happens is these are a set of a set of observations looking for a problem to solve.

I see, so that whole idea, which does come up in a bunch of these conspiracy theories that there is a huge effort, like a massive effort to keep it secret, and then a bunch of ways they decided to hint that this is happening.

I see, so that whole idea, which does come up in a bunch of these conspiracy theories that there is a huge effort, like a massive effort to keep it secret, and then a bunch of ways they decided to hint that this is happening.

So if you go, if there is this huge secret program, why would you give hints that there is this huge secret program if the whole point is to be secret. Now, speaking for the agency, we wouldn't do that, but we do know that the Russians do do that. So the fact that Russian oligarchs tend to fall off of balconies is sort of their death of choice. You know, while it can't be proven, that is a tell that that it was an execution, or the fact that the Russians tend to poison people with things like with exotic poisons like polonium, or that only a state would likely have that, right, Yeah, and that is a tell. And yeah, there's a wink at a nod at that. Right.

So if you go, if there is this huge secret program, why would you give hints that there is this huge secret program if the whole point is to be secret. Now, speaking for the agency, we wouldn't do that, but we do know that the Russians do do that. So the fact that Russian oligarchs tend to fall off of balconies is sort of their death of choice. You know, while it can't be proven, that is a tell that that it was an execution, or the fact that the Russians tend to poison people with things like with exotic poisons like polonium, or that only a state would likely have that, right, Yeah, and that is a tell. And yeah, there's a wink at a nod at that. Right.

That's interesting because they because you want to both you want to do a bunch of things, right, you want to kill somebody. I guess if you're assassinating, you kind of want them to know, and well, you want other people to know you did it, but you want to be able to plausibly deny that you did it. So it's a little bit of a dance, right, yeah, right, Because if the whole point is you want a secret place where you like, you could imagine a situation where the US got wanted China or Russia to think we have a place so that they bomb that place instead of the real place. I remember someone telling me I have no idea if this is true that Bruce Springsteen has two houses in the town he lives in. One is his actual house and the other is the house everyone thinks is his house, so that he doesn't have to deal with everybody.

That's interesting because they because you want to both you want to do a bunch of things, right, you want to kill somebody. I guess if you're assassinating, you kind of want them to know, and well, you want other people to know you did it, but you want to be able to plausibly deny that you did it. So it's a little bit of a dance, right, yeah, right, Because if the whole point is you want a secret place where you like, you could imagine a situation where the US got wanted China or Russia to think we have a place so that they bomb that place instead of the real place. I remember someone telling me I have no idea if this is true that Bruce Springsteen has two houses in the town he lives in. One is his actual house and the other is the house everyone thinks is his house, so that he doesn't have to deal with everybody.

It's like when the president flies in the helicopter into the White House. There's always several helicopters, so you don't know which one.

It's like when the president flies in the helicopter into the White House. There's always several helicopters, so you don't know which one.

So you don't know which one, all right. Another thing that pops in my head. This is from reading spy novels and watching spy movies, most of which are.

So you don't know which one, all right. Another thing that pops in my head. This is from reading spy novels and watching spy movies, most of which are.

Completely accurate from what I understand.

Completely accurate from what I understand.

There is the whole thing of dead drops and using chalk to mark a thing, or putting a flower pot in your window or whatever to say, hey, we're is that a real thing?

There is the whole thing of dead drops and using chalk to mark a thing, or putting a flower pot in your window or whatever to say, hey, we're is that a real thing?

Or is that just a movie thing.

Or is that just a movie thing.

That's a real thing. I spend a lot of time doing that in places like Russia where under surveillance all the time, and so if you're being followed and watched by the other side, you have to have subtle signals to your sources that you're ready to meet, or that a package has been put down for them to pick up at a prearrange location, and that kind of stuff. So chalk mark, there's any variety of things that could serve as a signal. It could be an electronic signal, it could be it could even be a smell, or it could be aquarium gravel dropped on the grounds, the colored rocks, or it could be a mark of some side. Or like you said that you can put out your put out your laundry on a certain day. You know, certain colors could mean something.

That's a real thing. I spend a lot of time doing that in places like Russia where under surveillance all the time, and so if you're being followed and watched by the other side, you have to have subtle signals to your sources that you're ready to meet, or that a package has been put down for them to pick up at a prearrange location, and that kind of stuff. So chalk mark, there's any variety of things that could serve as a signal. It could be an electronic signal, it could be it could even be a smell, or it could be aquarium gravel dropped on the grounds, the colored rocks, or it could be a mark of some side. Or like you said that you can put out your put out your laundry on a certain day. You know, certain colors could mean something.

Right, something that's seen but isn't discerned. Right, You don't know what it, but there is, Adam, you touch on, you touch on something else when you talked about when we talk about underground caves and labyrinths, there's something basic inside of the human condition that caves and labyrinths and you know are are inherently mysterious, and we're always want to know. I think, you know, as a species, we've always want to know what goes on in there.

Right, something that's seen but isn't discerned. Right, You don't know what it, but there is, Adam, you touch on, you touch on something else when you talked about when we talk about underground caves and labyrinths, there's something basic inside of the human condition that caves and labyrinths and you know are are inherently mysterious, and we're always want to know. I think, you know, as a species, we've always want to know what goes on in there.

Now, did you when you were in Baghdad? Did either of you ever go to the Saddam tunnels under the palace?

Now, did you when you were in Baghdad? Did either of you ever go to the Saddam tunnels under the palace?

I did. It was pretty crazy. This was right as the US was occupying.

I did. It was pretty crazy. This was right as the US was occupying.

And the way I got soldiers to like me and tell me stuff and give me MRIs because it wasn't easy to find food was I had a sad phone and they didn't, so I would let them call their family, and you know, and a lot of them hadn't talked to the family since the war. And I was standing with a bunch of guys at one of the palaces and after I let them use the phone, and they were kind of having some nice like wow, we all just survived a war.

And the way I got soldiers to like me and tell me stuff and give me MRIs because it wasn't easy to find food was I had a sad phone and they didn't, so I would let them call their family, and you know, and a lot of them hadn't talked to the family since the war. And I was standing with a bunch of guys at one of the palaces and after I let them use the phone, and they were kind of having some nice like wow, we all just survived a war.

Kind of conversation.

Kind of conversation.

They were like, all right, come on, I'll show you. And they took me down and it was I don't think this was the main entrance. I don't think this was the entrance to doam would have used. It was a ladder down and then I mean it looked more like, I don't know, an institutional, like a school, or a hospital like a very like long corridors with lots of rooms on either side. I have no idea if it was deep enough to some of nuclear war anything like that, but it was pretty striking and it was pretty like as I recall, it easily could have fit many hundreds of people, maybe many thousands of people. And I as soon do most I mean most governments must have something like that, right well.

They were like, all right, come on, I'll show you. And they took me down and it was I don't think this was the main entrance. I don't think this was the entrance to doam would have used. It was a ladder down and then I mean it looked more like, I don't know, an institutional, like a school, or a hospital like a very like long corridors with lots of rooms on either side. I have no idea if it was deep enough to some of nuclear war anything like that, but it was pretty striking and it was pretty like as I recall, it easily could have fit many hundreds of people, maybe many thousands of people. And I as soon do most I mean most governments must have something like that, right well.

One of the reason over the US government would want to build things like this, in addition to the reasons that John said also is our military has had to attack bunkers in places like Iraq, in Iran and North Korea, or be ready to do that because a lot of places have built deep, deep places to do nuclear research or to hide their military or what have you. And we have to test our weaponry, our bombs, and we have bombs that supposedly dig underground or that can blow up these kind of places.

One of the reason over the US government would want to build things like this, in addition to the reasons that John said also is our military has had to attack bunkers in places like Iraq, in Iran and North Korea, or be ready to do that because a lot of places have built deep, deep places to do nuclear research or to hide their military or what have you. And we have to test our weaponry, our bombs, and we have bombs that supposedly dig underground or that can blow up these kind of places.

So there was one particular story I think I can tell it is so there was a Middle Eastern potentate who was a bit crazy, and he had different places. That does differ it down different palaces with underground bunkers and secret tunnels in and we could never be certain because he would travel around in like different convoys of cars and like which one is he in? But a human source told us that he has a favorite milk camel and it was white. And so if you could find in the satellite where the camel was, you knew the dance where he was. So this guy spent billions of dollars building these multiple places where he could hide in these different tunnel complexes. But as long as you knew that he had his white milk camel with him, it didn't really matter, right, And so I.

So there was one particular story I think I can tell it is so there was a Middle Eastern potentate who was a bit crazy, and he had different places. That does differ it down different palaces with underground bunkers and secret tunnels in and we could never be certain because he would travel around in like different convoys of cars and like which one is he in? But a human source told us that he has a favorite milk camel and it was white. And so if you could find in the satellite where the camel was, you knew the dance where he was. So this guy spent billions of dollars building these multiple places where he could hide in these different tunnel complexes. But as long as you knew that he had his white milk camel with him, it didn't really matter, right, And so I.

Do believe that one because I think we all know once you find a milk camel that works, like you're.

Do believe that one because I think we all know once you find a milk camel that works, like you're.

Well, that's pretty obvious.

Well, that's pretty obvious.

Have I told you guys the story about my car and Baghdad was it cursed? Well, so I was driving up from Kuwait to Baghdad and my employers at marketplace it's a show about money.

Have I told you guys the story about my car and Baghdad was it cursed? Well, so I was driving up from Kuwait to Baghdad and my employers at marketplace it's a show about money.

They were very concerned about money.

They were very concerned about money.

Right before I left Kuwait, a bunch of reporters for Newsweek had their car destroyed during a battle in the Iraq War. And the main takeaway my editors got from this was not, Wow, we got to keep at them safe. It's really dangerous The main takeaway they got is oh insurance doesn't cover acts of war, so if Adam rents a thirty thousand dollars car and it gets damaged, we're out the whole thirty thousand. So they asked me to buy a used car so that we kind of cap our loss at whatever I pay for the used car. So I bought a Jeep for ten grand in Kuwait and then drove it up to Baghdad.

Right before I left Kuwait, a bunch of reporters for Newsweek had their car destroyed during a battle in the Iraq War. And the main takeaway my editors got from this was not, Wow, we got to keep at them safe. It's really dangerous The main takeaway they got is oh insurance doesn't cover acts of war, so if Adam rents a thirty thousand dollars car and it gets damaged, we're out the whole thirty thousand. So they asked me to buy a used car so that we kind of cap our loss at whatever I pay for the used car. So I bought a Jeep for ten grand in Kuwait and then drove it up to Baghdad.

And then, did you drive in Baghdad at all? It's crazy, It's like the worst.

And then, did you drive in Baghdad at all? It's crazy, It's like the worst.

I didn't drive. I was driven, but yes, yes.

I didn't drive. I was driven, but yes, yes.

So I hired a driver, thomer who used to say Iraqi drivers are the best drivers in the world because they have to drive on the roads with Iraqi drivers who are the worst in the world.

So I hired a driver, thomer who used to say Iraqi drivers are the best drivers in the world because they have to drive on the roads with Iraqi drivers who are the worst in the world.

So I then.

So I then.

Sold this Jeep, this white Jeep, to this fixer for the New York Times named Abu Karar. And Abu Karar had a bunch of misfortunes in this car. His cousin was arrested driving the car. Then there was some other thing, and then the third thing was the car was in a damaged in a suicide bombing while another relative was sitting in it, and the relative didn't die, but was injured. And so he came to the conclusion that I had cursed the car, or I had done something that got the car cursed. So the car was now cursed, and the only solution was either to kill me or for us to have what in Iraq is called an exorcism, just to have no a settlement. And so we went to meet with Abu Karar sat down with him for a long time, and after he talked to them, they came to me and said, you have to pay him money and you have to like pledge to remove the curse. It was only five hundred bucks, so that's how much my life is worth. And he wrote out on a piece of paper a little contract saying he was formally forgiving my guilt for putting a curse on him. And then I sent the contract in and put in the expense report for my life, and no one in marketplace said anything.