Bron is joined by James Clarke (Clinical psychologist/PhD candidate) to unpack emotional labour. Get ready for a huge dose of validation as James confirms that delivering therapy is not just 'tea and biscuits' - it's REALLY hard work! They chat about 👉🏽 The unique emotional labour that psychologists undertake👉🏻 Strategies to manage emotional labour in session 👉 How to decompress outside of sessions 👉🏿 Why we are self-compassion converts.

Mental Work is the podcast unpacking the challenges faced by early career psychologists, so they don’t have to go it alone. Hosted by Dr Bronwyn Milkins.

LINKS
James' research article, 'Managing emotional labour in the provision of psychotherapy' (it's such a good read! A++)
Contact James - LinkedIn / Email: james.j.clarke@postgrad.curtin.edu.au
Kristin Neff - Self-compassion researcher and author: https://self-compassion.org/

THE END BITS

Love the podcast? Keep it alive by joining our Patreon for $2 a month 😎

Support the show by buying me a virtual coffee! ☕

Email Bron at mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com

Facebook / Instagram / Website / Apply to be a guest

CREDITS

Producer: Michael English
Music: Home

Bron is joined by James Clarke (Clinical psychologist/PhD candidate) to unpack emotional labour. Get ready for a huge dose of validation as James confirms that delivering therapy is not just 'tea and biscuits' - it's REALLY hard work! They chat about 👉🏽 The unique emotional labour that psychologists undertake👉🏻 Strategies to manage emotional labour in session 👉 How to decompress outside of sessions 👉🏿 Why we are self-compassion converts.
Mental Work is the podcast unpacking the challenges faced by early career psychologists, so they don’t have to go it alone. Hosted by <a href="https://www.bronwynmilkins.com/">Dr Bronwyn Milkins</a>.
LINKS
<ul>
<li>James' research article, <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/363794849_Managing_emotional_labour_in_the_provision_of_psychotherapy_-_what_matters_most">'Managing emotional labour in the provision of psychotherapy'</a> (it's such a good read! A++)</li>
<li>Contact James - <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-clarke-453a3a168/?originalSubdomain=au">LinkedIn</a> / Email: <a href="mailto:james.j.clarke@postgrad.curtin.edu.au">james.j.clarke@postgrad.curtin.edu.au</a></li>
<li>Kristin Neff - Self-compassion researcher and author: <a href="https://self-compassion.org/">https://self-compassion.org/</a></li>
</ul>
THE END BITS
Love the podcast? Keep it alive by <a href="https://www.patreon.com/mentalworkpodcast">joining our Patreon</a> for $2 a month 😎
Support the show by <a href="https://www.buymeacoffee.com/mentalwork">buying me a virtual coffee</a>! ☕
Email Bron at <a href="mailto:mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com">mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com</a>
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/mentalworkpod">Facebook</a> / <a href="https://www.instagram.com/_mentalworkpodcast/">Instagram</a> / <a href="https://www.MentalWorkPodcast.com">Website</a> / <a href="https://forms.office.com/r/3ci82tKq7p">Apply to be a guest</a>
CREDITS
Producer: Michael English Music: <a href="https://home96.bandcamp.com">Home</a>

Mental Work is the podcast about working in mental health for psychologists, with an early-career focus. Hosted by Psychologist Dr Bronwyn Milkins.

Mental Work is the podcast about working in mental health for psychologists, with an early-career focus. Hosted by Psychologist Dr Bronwyn Milkins.

A closer look at the everyday challenges faced by early-career mental health workers, so they don’t have to go it alone.

Mental Work

Emotional labour (with James Clarke)

Bron is joined by Kyle Miller (psychologist working in forensic private practice) about what it's really like to work with people who have committed sexual or violent offences. Kyle shares how he found his way into forensic work almost by accident, and why "I work with people" has become his guiding philosophy.

They chat about:
👉🏽 The biggest misconceptions about people who commit sexual offences
👉🏻 How Kyle manages countertransference and the pressure to "fix" clients
👉 Why learning forensic terminology and skills happens on the job, not at uni
👉🏿 How to build rapport with clients who don't want to be in the room

Guest: Kyle Miller, Psychologist at Melbourne Private Psychology

LINKS
Melbourne Private Psychology
Beyond The Crime podcast

THE END BITS

Mental Work is the podcast for psychologists about the realities of working in mental health, with an early-career focus. Hosted by psychologist/researcher Dr Bronwyn Milkins.

Support the show by buying me a virtual coffee ☕🍵

Have a question, episode idea or just want to say hi? DM Bron on Instagram, leave a comment on the Spotify episode, or email mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com

Apply to be a guest / YouTube (with captions & transcript) / Website

CREDITS

Producer: Michael English

Music: Home

Commitment: Mental Work believes in an inclusive and diverse mental health workforce. We honour the strength, resilience, and invaluable contributions of mental health workers with lived experiences of mental illness, disability, neurodivergence, LGBTIQA+ identities, and diverse culture and language. We recognise our First Nations colleagues as Traditional Custodians of the land and pay respect to Elders past, present, and emerging. Mental Work is recorded on unceded Whadjuk Noongar boodja.

Disclaimer: Mental Work provides informational content. Mental Work is not a psychological service and being a listener or guest does not establish a therapeutic relationship. Content should not be considered a replacement for professional consultation or therapy. All views expressed are personal, subject to change, and do not represent those of any affiliated employer, service, or organisation past or present. Efforts are made to ensure accuracy, but opinions may not always align with fact. Listeners are encouraged to thoughtfully assess the information presented and report any inaccuracies or concerns via email. Further information can be found here.

Bron is joined by Kyle Miller (psychologist working in forensic private practice) about what it's really like to work with people who have committed sexual or violent offences. Kyle shares how he found his way into forensic work almost by accident, and why "I work with people" has become his guiding philosophy.
They chat about: 👉🏽 The biggest misconceptions about people who commit sexual offences 👉🏻 How Kyle manages countertransference and the pressure to "fix" clients 👉 Why learning forensic terminology and skills happens on the job, not at uni 👉🏿 How to build rapport with clients who don't want to be in the room
Guest: Kyle Miller, Psychologist at Melbourne Private Psychology
LINKS
<ul dir="auto">
<li><a href="https://www.melbourneprivatepsychology.com.au">Melbourne Private Psychology</a></li>
<li><a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/1qyyXNbvmXGQDIML5fky2z">Beyond The Crime podcast</a></li>
</ul>
THE END BITS
Mental Work is the podcast for psychologists about the realities of working in mental health, with an early-career focus. Hosted by psychologist/researcher <a href="https://www.mentalworkpodcast.com/about/">Dr Bronwyn Milkins</a>.
Support the show by <a href="https://www.buymeacoffee.com/mentalwork">buying me a virtual coffee</a> ☕🍵
Have a question, episode idea or just want to say hi? <a href="https://www.instagram.com/_mentalworkpodcast/">DM Bron on Instagram</a>, leave a comment on the <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5ifKADwT3mw6yYDZb9rHji">Spotify episode</a>, or <a href="mailto:mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com">email mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com</a>
<a href="https://www.podpage.com/mentalwork/p/guest/">Apply to be a guest</a> / <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@MentalWorkPodcast">YouTube (with captions &amp; transcript)</a> / <a href="https://www.mentalworkpodcast.com/">Website</a>
CREDITS
Producer: Michael English
Music: <a href="https://home96.bandcamp.com/">Home</a>
Commitment: Mental Work believes in an inclusive and diverse mental health workforce. We honour the strength, resilience, and invaluable contributions of mental health workers with lived experiences of mental illness, disability, neurodivergence, LGBTIQA+ identities, and diverse culture and language. We recognise our First Nations colleagues as Traditional Custodians of the land and pay respect to Elders past, present, and emerging. Mental Work is recorded on unceded Whadjuk Noongar boodja.
Disclaimer: Mental Work provides informational content. Mental Work is not a psychological service and being a listener or guest does not establish a therapeutic relationship. Content should not be considered a replacement for professional consultation or therapy. All views expressed are personal, subject to change, and do not represent those of any affiliated employer, service, or organisation past or present. Efforts are made to ensure accuracy, but opinions may not always align with fact. Listeners are encouraged to thoughtfully assess the information presented and report any inaccuracies or concerns via <a href="mailto:mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com">email</a>. Further information can be found <a href="https://www.mentalworkpodcast.com/p/disclaimer/">here</a>.

Inside forensic psychology and working with violent and sexual offenders (with Kyle Miller)

Bron is joined by returning guest Harriet Isles (psychologist and founder of Restorative Space Psychology) to talk about therapist self-disclosure. Harriet shares her practical, intentional approach to deciding when sharing personal information with a client helps the therapeutic relationship, and when it gets in the way.

They chat about:
👉🏽 How to know when self-disclosure is actually for the client's benefit, not your own
👉🏻 What the AHPRA Code of Conduct says about sharing personal information with clients
👉 Findings from the 2025 "Goldilocks Disclosures" study on when self-disclosure lands well (and when it backfires)
👉🏿 Why speaking "from the scar, not the wound" protects clients from role confusion

Guest: Harriet Isles, Psychologist and Founder of Restorative Space Psychology

LINKS
Research article: "Goldilocks disclosures: A qualitative exploration of when therapist self-disclosure of lived experience is "just right"
Harriet's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/restorativespacepsychology/

THE END BITS

Mental Work is the podcast for psychologists about the realities of working in mental health, with an early-career focus. Hosted by psychologist/researcher Dr Bronwyn Milkins.

Support the show by buying me a virtual coffee ☕🍵

Have a question, episode idea or just want to say hi? DM Bron on Instagram, leave a comment on the Spotify episode, or email mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com

Apply to be a guest / YouTube (with captions & transcript) / Website

CREDITS

Producer: Michael English

Music: Home

Commitment: Mental Work believes in an inclusive and diverse mental health workforce. We honour the strength, resilience, and invaluable contributions of mental health workers with lived experiences of mental illness, disability, neurodivergence, LGBTIQA+ identities, and diverse culture and language. We recognise our First Nations colleagues as Traditional Custodians of the land and pay respect to Elders past, present, and emerging. Mental Work is recorded on unceded Whadjuk Noongar boodja.

Disclaimer: Mental Work provides informational content. Mental Work is not a psychological service and being a listener or guest does not establish a therapeutic relationship. Content should not be considered a replacement for professional consultation or therapy. All views expressed are personal, subject to change, and do not represent those of any affiliated employer, service, or organisation past or present. Efforts are made to ensure accuracy, but opinions may not always align with fact. Listeners are encouraged to thoughtfully assess the information presented and report any inaccuracies or concerns via email. Further information can be found here.

Bron is joined by returning guest Harriet Isles (psychologist and founder of Restorative Space Psychology) to talk about therapist self-disclosure. Harriet shares her practical, intentional approach to deciding when sharing personal information with a client helps the therapeutic relationship, and when it gets in the way.
They chat about: 👉🏽 How to know when self-disclosure is actually for the client's benefit, not your own 👉🏻 What the AHPRA Code of Conduct says about sharing personal information with clients 👉 Findings from the 2025 "Goldilocks Disclosures" study on when self-disclosure lands well (and when it backfires) 👉🏿 Why speaking "from the scar, not the wound" protects clients from role confusion
Guest: Harriet Isles,&nbsp;Psychologist and Founder of <a href="https://restorativespace.com.au">Restorative Space Psychology</a>
LINKS
<ul dir="auto">
<li>Research article: <a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40111853/">"Goldilocks disclosures: A qualitative exploration of when therapist self-disclosure of lived experience is "just right"</a></li>
<li>Harriet's Instagram: <a href="https://www.instagram.com/restorativespacepsychology/">https://www.instagram.com/restorativespacepsychology/</a></li>
</ul>
THE END BITS
Mental Work is the podcast for psychologists about the realities of working in mental health, with an early-career focus. Hosted by psychologist/researcher <a href="https://www.mentalworkpodcast.com/about/">Dr Bronwyn Milkins</a>.
Support the show by <a href="https://www.buymeacoffee.com/mentalwork">buying me a virtual coffee</a> ☕🍵
Have a question, episode idea or just want to say hi? <a href="https://www.instagram.com/_mentalworkpodcast/">DM Bron on Instagram</a>, leave a comment on the <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5ifKADwT3mw6yYDZb9rHji">Spotify episode</a>, or <a href="mailto:mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com">email mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com</a>
<a href="https://www.podpage.com/mentalwork/p/guest/">Apply to be a guest</a> / <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@MentalWorkPodcast">YouTube (with captions &amp; transcript)</a> / <a href="https://www.mentalworkpodcast.com/">Website</a>
CREDITS
Producer: Michael English
Music: <a href="https://home96.bandcamp.com/">Home</a>
Commitment: Mental Work believes in an inclusive and diverse mental health workforce. We honour the strength, resilience, and invaluable contributions of mental health workers with lived experiences of mental illness, disability, neurodivergence, LGBTIQA+ identities, and diverse culture and language. We recognise our First Nations colleagues as Traditional Custodians of the land and pay respect to Elders past, present, and emerging. Mental Work is recorded on unceded Whadjuk Noongar boodja.
Disclaimer: Mental Work provides informational content. Mental Work is not a psychological service and being a listener or guest does not establish a therapeutic relationship. Content should not be considered a replacement for professional consultation or therapy. All views expressed are personal, subject to change, and do not represent those of any affiliated employer, service, or organisation past or present. Efforts are made to ensure accuracy, but opinions may not always align with fact. Listeners are encouraged to thoughtfully assess the information presented and report any inaccuracies or concerns via <a href="mailto:mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com">email</a>. Further information can be found <a href="https://www.mentalworkpodcast.com/p/disclaimer/">here</a>.

Authenticity without oversharing: What the research says about therapist self-disclosure (with Harriet Iles)

Bron is joined by Nishie Govender (clinical psychologist and occupational psychology consultant) for an honest conversation about building a career that looks nothing like the one you imagined. Nishie shares how realising full-time clinical work wasn't sustainable for her led to a fulfilling dual career working between corporate psychology and private practice, and what prompted her to go back to study a Clinical Masters bridging course as a registered psychologist.

They chat about: 
👉🏻 What a corporate/occupational psychology role actually looks like day-to-day, and why it surprised her 
👉 How clinical training transfers into nonclinical settings (and vice versa) 
👉🏿 What the post-registration Clinical Masters bridging course involves, and who it's really for 
👉🏾 The identity challenges of going back to being a student when you're already a competent psychologist

Guest: Nishie Govender, Clinical Psychologist

LINKS
Cetas Psychology website

THE END BITS

Mental Work is the Australian podcast for early-career psychologists about working in mental health. Hosted by psychologist/researcher Dr Bronwyn Milkins.

Support the show by buying me a virtual coffee ☕🍵

Have a question, episode idea or just want to say hi? DM Bron on Instagram, leave a comment on the Spotify episode, or email mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com

Apply to be a guest / YouTube (with captions & transcript) / Website

CREDITS

Producer: Michael English

Music: Home

Commitment: Mental Work believes in an inclusive and diverse mental health workforce. We honour the strength, resilience, and invaluable contributions of mental health workers with lived experiences of mental illness, disability, neurodivergence, LGBTIQA+ identities, and diverse culture and language. We recognise our First Nations colleagues as Traditional Custodians of the land and pay respect to Elders past, present, and emerging. Mental Work is recorded on unceded Whadjuk Noongar boodja.

Disclaimer: Mental Work provides informational content. Mental Work is not a psychological service and being a listener or guest does not establish a therapeutic relationship. Content should not be considered a replacement for professional consultation or therapy. All views expressed are personal, subject to change, and do not represent those of any affiliated employer, service, or organisation past or present. Efforts are made to ensure accuracy, but opinions may not always align with fact. Listeners are encouraged to thoughtfully assess the information presented and report any inaccuracies or concerns via email. Further information can be found here.

Bron is joined by Nishie Govender (clinical psychologist and occupational psychology consultant) for an honest conversation about building a career that looks nothing like the one you imagined. Nishie shares how realising full-time clinical work wasn't sustainable for her led to a fulfilling dual career working between corporate psychology and private practice, and what prompted her to go back to study a Clinical Masters bridging course as a registered psychologist.
They chat about: 👉🏻 What a corporate/occupational psychology role actually looks like day-to-day, and why it surprised her&nbsp; 👉 How clinical training transfers into nonclinical settings (and vice versa) 👉🏿 What the post-registration Clinical Masters bridging course involves, and who it's really for 👉🏾 The identity challenges of going back to being a student when you're already a competent psychologist
Guest: <a href="https://cetaspsychology.com">Nishie Govender</a>, Clinical Psychologist
LINKS
<ul>
<li><a href="https://cetaspsychology.com">Cetas Psychology website</a></li>
</ul>
THE END BITS
Mental Work is the Australian podcast for early-career psychologists about working in mental health. Hosted by psychologist/researcher <a href="https://www.mentalworkpodcast.com/about/">Dr Bronwyn Milkins</a>.
Support the show by <a href="https://www.buymeacoffee.com/mentalwork">buying me a virtual coffee</a> ☕🍵
Have a question, episode idea or just want to say hi? <a href="https://www.instagram.com/_mentalworkpodcast/">DM Bron on Instagram</a>, leave a comment on the <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5ifKADwT3mw6yYDZb9rHji">Spotify episode</a>, or <a href="mailto:mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com">email mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com</a>
<a href="https://www.podpage.com/mentalwork/p/guest/">Apply to be a guest</a> / <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@MentalWorkPodcast">YouTube (with captions &amp; transcript)</a> / <a href="https://www.mentalworkpodcast.com/">Website</a>
CREDITS
Producer: Michael English
Music: <a href="https://home96.bandcamp.com/">Home</a>
Commitment: Mental Work believes in an inclusive and diverse mental health workforce. We honour the strength, resilience, and invaluable contributions of mental health workers with lived experiences of mental illness, disability, neurodivergence, LGBTIQA+ identities, and diverse culture and language. We recognise our First Nations colleagues as Traditional Custodians of the land and pay respect to Elders past, present, and emerging. Mental Work is recorded on unceded Whadjuk Noongar boodja.
Disclaimer: Mental Work provides informational content. Mental Work is not a psychological service and being a listener or guest does not establish a therapeutic relationship. Content should not be considered a replacement for professional consultation or therapy. All views expressed are personal, subject to change, and do not represent those of any affiliated employer, service, or organisation past or present. Efforts are made to ensure accuracy, but opinions may not always align with fact. Listeners are encouraged to thoughtfully assess the information presented and report any inaccuracies or concerns via <a href="mailto:mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com">email</a>. Further information can be found <a href="https://www.mentalworkpodcast.com/p/disclaimer/">here</a>.

Emotional labour (with James Clarke)

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