Bron is joined by James Clarke (Clinical psychologist/PhD candidate) to unpack emotional labour. Get ready for a huge dose of validation as James confirms that delivering therapy is not just 'tea and biscuits' - it's REALLY hard work! They chat about 👉🏽 The unique emotional labour that psychologists undertake👉🏻 Strategies to manage emotional labour in session 👉 How to decompress outside of sessions 👉🏿 Why we are self-compassion converts.

Mental Work is the podcast unpacking the challenges faced by early career psychologists, so they don’t have to go it alone. Hosted by Dr Bronwyn Milkins.

LINKS
James' research article, 'Managing emotional labour in the provision of psychotherapy' (it's such a good read! A++)
Contact James - LinkedIn / Email: james.j.clarke@postgrad.curtin.edu.au
Kristin Neff - Self-compassion researcher and author: https://self-compassion.org/

THE END BITS

Love the podcast? Keep it alive by joining our Patreon for $2 a month 😎

Support the show by buying me a virtual coffee! ☕

Email Bron at mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com

Facebook / Instagram / Website / Apply to be a guest

CREDITS

Producer: Michael English
Music: Home

Bron is joined by James Clarke (Clinical psychologist/PhD candidate) to unpack emotional labour. Get ready for a huge dose of validation as James confirms that delivering therapy is not just 'tea and biscuits' - it's REALLY hard work! They chat about 👉🏽 The unique emotional labour that psychologists undertake👉🏻 Strategies to manage emotional labour in session 👉 How to decompress outside of sessions 👉🏿 Why we are self-compassion converts.
Mental Work is the podcast unpacking the challenges faced by early career psychologists, so they don’t have to go it alone. Hosted by <a href="https://www.bronwynmilkins.com/">Dr Bronwyn Milkins</a>.
LINKS
<ul>
<li>James' research article, <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/363794849_Managing_emotional_labour_in_the_provision_of_psychotherapy_-_what_matters_most">'Managing emotional labour in the provision of psychotherapy'</a> (it's such a good read! A++)</li>
<li>Contact James - <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-clarke-453a3a168/?originalSubdomain=au">LinkedIn</a> / Email: <a href="mailto:james.j.clarke@postgrad.curtin.edu.au">james.j.clarke@postgrad.curtin.edu.au</a></li>
<li>Kristin Neff - Self-compassion researcher and author: <a href="https://self-compassion.org/">https://self-compassion.org/</a></li>
</ul>
THE END BITS
Love the podcast? Keep it alive by <a href="https://www.patreon.com/mentalworkpodcast">joining our Patreon</a> for $2 a month 😎
Support the show by <a href="https://www.buymeacoffee.com/mentalwork">buying me a virtual coffee</a>! ☕
Email Bron at <a href="mailto:mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com">mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com</a>
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/mentalworkpod">Facebook</a> / <a href="https://www.instagram.com/_mentalworkpodcast/">Instagram</a> / <a href="https://www.MentalWorkPodcast.com">Website</a> / <a href="https://forms.office.com/r/3ci82tKq7p">Apply to be a guest</a>
CREDITS
Producer: Michael English Music: <a href="https://home96.bandcamp.com">Home</a>

Mental Work is the podcast about working in mental health for psychologists, with an early-career focus. Hosted by Psychologist Dr Bronwyn Milkins.

Mental Work is the podcast about working in mental health for psychologists, with an early-career focus. Hosted by Psychologist Dr Bronwyn Milkins.

A closer look at the everyday challenges faced by early-career mental health workers, so they don’t have to go it alone.

Mental Work

Emotional labour (with James Clarke)

Bron is joined by Matthew Jackson (Psychologist and Board-Approved Supervisor) to unpack why so many psychologists can be deeply compassionate towards clients but harshly critical towards themselves. Matt reflects openly on how his upbringing, attachment and his own therapy have shaped his relationship with self-compassion, and Bron discusses how she is is at the start of her own self-compassion journey. They explore how psychology training often teaches us to turn compassion outward, but not so much inward.

They chat about:
👉🏽 Paul Gilbert’s definition of compassion, and why self-compassion is relationship-based rather than evaluation-based
👉🏻 Tall poppy syndrome and whether psychologists are allowed to feel proud of their work
👉 Feeling “compassioned out” and building tiny moments of self-kindness between sessions
👉🏿 Five-second self-compassion phrases, boundaries, and giving yourself permission to be imperfect at your work

Guest: Matthew Jackson, Psychologist and Board-Approved Supervisor

LINKS
Matt (as Matilda Mercury) on Instagram
Self-compassion with Dr Kristin Neff
Article by Paul Gilbert (2014), "The origins and nature of compassion focused therapy"

THE END BITS

Mental Work is the podcast for psychologists about the realities of working in mental health, with an early-career focus. Hosted by psychologist/researcher Dr Bronwyn Milkins.

Support the show by buying me a virtual coffee ☕🍵

Have a question, episode idea or just want to say hi? DM Bron on Instagram, leave a comment on the Spotify episode, or email mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com

Apply to be a guest / YouTube (with captions & transcript) / Website

CREDITS

Producer: Michael English

Music: Home

Commitment: Mental Work believes in an inclusive and diverse mental health workforce. We honour the strength, resilience, and invaluable contributions of mental health workers with lived experiences of mental illness, disability, neurodivergence, LGBTIQA+ identities, and diverse culture and language. We recognise our First Nations colleagues as Traditional Custodians of the land and pay respect to Elders past, present, and emerging. Mental Work is recorded on unceded Whadjuk Noongar boodja.

Disclaimer: Mental Work provides informational content. Mental Work is not a psychological service and being a listener or guest does not establish a therapeutic relationship. Content should not be considered a replacement for professional consultation or therapy. All views expressed are personal, subject to change, and do not represent those of any affiliated employer, service, or organisation past or present. Efforts are made to ensure accuracy, but opinions may not always align with fact. Listeners are encouraged to thoughtfully assess the information presented and report any inaccuracies or concerns via email. Further information can be found here.

Bron is joined by Matthew Jackson (Psychologist and Board-Approved Supervisor) to unpack why so many psychologists can be deeply compassionate towards clients but harshly critical towards themselves. Matt reflects openly on how his upbringing, attachment and his own therapy have shaped his relationship with self-compassion, and Bron discusses how she is is at the start of her own self-compassion journey. They explore how psychology training often teaches us to turn compassion outward, but not so much inward.
They chat about: 👉🏽 Paul Gilbert&rsquo;s definition of compassion, and why self-compassion is relationship-based rather than evaluation-based 👉🏻 Tall poppy syndrome and whether psychologists are allowed to feel proud of their work 👉 Feeling &ldquo;compassioned out&rdquo; and building tiny moments of self-kindness between sessions 👉🏿 Five-second self-compassion phrases, boundaries, and giving yourself permission to be imperfect at your work
Guest: <a href="https://www.instagram.com/matildamercuryqueen/">Matthew Jackson</a>, Psychologist and Board-Approved Supervisor
LINKS
<ul dir="ltr">
<li><a href="https://www.instagram.com/matildamercuryqueen/">Matt (as Matilda Mercury) on Instagram</a></li>
<li><a href="https://self-compassion.org/">Self-compassion with Dr Kristin Neff</a></li>
<li><a href="https://self-compassion.org/wp-content/uploads/publications/GilbertCFT.pdf">Article by Paul Gilbert (2014), "The origins and nature of compassion focused therapy"</a></li>
</ul>
THE END BITS
Mental Work is the podcast for psychologists about the realities of working in mental health, with an early-career focus. Hosted by psychologist/researcher <a href="https://www.mentalworkpodcast.com/about/" data-airgap-id="8">Dr Bronwyn Milkins</a>.
Support the show by <a href="https://www.buymeacoffee.com/mentalwork" data-airgap-id="9">buying me a virtual coffee</a> ☕🍵
Have a question, episode idea or just want to say hi? <a href="https://www.instagram.com/_mentalworkpodcast/" data-airgap-id="10">DM Bron on Instagram</a>, leave a comment on the <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5ifKADwT3mw6yYDZb9rHji" data-airgap-id="11">Spotify episode</a>, or <a href="mailto:mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com" data-airgap-id="12">email mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com</a>
<a href="https://www.podpage.com/mentalwork/p/guest/" data-airgap-id="13">Apply to be a guest</a> / <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@MentalWorkPodcast" data-airgap-id="14">YouTube (with captions &amp; transcript)</a> / <a href="https://www.mentalworkpodcast.com/" data-airgap-id="15">Website</a>
CREDITS
Producer: Michael English
Music: <a href="https://home96.bandcamp.com/" data-airgap-id="16">Home</a>
Commitment: Mental Work believes in an inclusive and diverse mental health workforce. We honour the strength, resilience, and invaluable contributions of mental health workers with lived experiences of mental illness, disability, neurodivergence, LGBTIQA+ identities, and diverse culture and language. We recognise our First Nations colleagues as Traditional Custodians of the land and pay respect to Elders past, present, and emerging. Mental Work is recorded on unceded Whadjuk Noongar boodja.
Disclaimer: Mental Work provides informational content. Mental Work is not a psychological service and being a listener or guest does not establish a therapeutic relationship. Content should not be considered a replacement for professional consultation or therapy. All views expressed are personal, subject to change, and do not represent those of any affiliated employer, service, or organisation past or present. Efforts are made to ensure accuracy, but opinions may not always align with fact. Listeners are encouraged to thoughtfully assess the information presented and report any inaccuracies or concerns via <a href="mailto:mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com" data-airgap-id="17">email</a>. Further information can be found <a href="https://www.mentalworkpodcast.com/p/disclaimer/" data-airgap-id="18">here</a>.

Compassionate to clients, harsh on ourselves: Exploring the therapist double-standard (with Matthew Jackson)

Bron is joined by Claire Trevitt (Psychologist) to explore the Psychodynamic Diagnostic Manual (PDM), which is one diagnostic alternative to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (the DSM). Claire explains how the PDM uses the same diagnostic categories as the DSM but adds depth around personality and subjective experience, which can give mental health workers a different perspectives on their clients' experiences.

They chat about:
👉🏽 Personality styles versus personality disorders, and the PDM’s spectrum
👉🏻 Using the PDM to guide treatment planning
👉 How the PDM names expected countertransference responses, including for clients presenting with post-traumatic stress disorder and borderline personality disorder
👉🏿 Practical first steps for early-career clinicians who want to access and use the PDM

Guest: Claire Trevitt, Psychologist and Board-Approved Supervisor

LINKS
Psychodynamic Diagnostic Manual, Third Edition (PDM-3), edited by Vittorio Lingiardi and Nancy McWilliams
Tip: check whether your AAPi or APS membership gives you library access to the PDM
The Growing Therapist (Claire’s website)
The Growing Therapist Podcast

THE END BITS

Mental Work is the podcast for psychologists about the realities of working in mental health, with an early-career focus. Hosted by psychologist/researcher Dr Bronwyn Milkins.

Support the show by buying me a virtual coffee ☕🍵

Have a question, episode idea or just want to say hi? DM Bron on Instagram, leave a comment on the Spotify episode, or email mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com

Apply to be a guest / YouTube (with captions & transcript) / Website

CREDITS

Producer: Michael English

Music: Home

Commitment: Mental Work believes in an inclusive and diverse mental health workforce. We honour the strength, resilience, and invaluable contributions of mental health workers with lived experiences of mental illness, disability, neurodivergence, LGBTIQA+ identities, and diverse culture and language. We recognise our First Nations colleagues as Traditional Custodians of the land and pay respect to Elders past, present, and emerging. Mental Work is recorded on unceded Whadjuk Noongar boodja.

Disclaimer: Mental Work provides informational content. Mental Work is not a psychological service and being a listener or guest does not establish a therapeutic relationship. Content should not be considered a replacement for professional consultation or therapy. All views expressed are personal, subject to change, and do not represent those of any affiliated employer, service, or organisation past or present. Efforts are made to ensure accuracy, but opinions may not always align with fact. Listeners are encouraged to thoughtfully assess the information presented and report any inaccuracies or concerns via email. Further information can be found here.

Bron is joined by Claire Trevitt (Psychologist) to explore the Psychodynamic Diagnostic Manual (PDM), which is one diagnostic alternative to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (the DSM). Claire explains how the PDM uses the same diagnostic categories as the DSM but adds depth around personality and subjective experience, which can give mental health workers a different perspectives on their clients' experiences.
They chat about: 👉🏽 Personality styles versus personality disorders, and the PDM&rsquo;s spectrum 👉🏻 Using the PDM to guide treatment planning 👉 How the PDM names expected countertransference responses, including for clients presenting with post-traumatic stress disorder and borderline personality disorder 👉🏿 Practical first steps for early-career clinicians who want to access and use the PDM
Guest: <a href="https://thegrowingtherapist.com.au">Claire Trevitt</a>, Psychologist and Board-Approved Supervisor
LINKS
<ul dir="ltr">
<li><a href="https://www.guilford.com/books/Psychodynamic-Diagnostic-Manual/Lingiardi-McWilliams/9781462558711">Psychodynamic Diagnostic Manual, Third Edition (PDM-3)</a>, edited by Vittorio Lingiardi and Nancy McWilliams</li>
<li>Tip: check whether your <a href="https://aapi.org.au">AAPi</a> or <a href="https://psychology.org.au">APS</a> membership gives you library access to the PDM</li>
<li><a href="https://thegrowingtherapist.com.au">The Growing Therapist</a> (Claire&rsquo;s website)</li>
<li><a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/46806Nk6ykvN8SBOLEYCOr?si=fb54dca1734e448a">The Growing Therapist Podcast</a></li>
</ul>
THE END BITS
Mental Work is the podcast for psychologists about the realities of working in mental health, with an early-career focus. Hosted by psychologist/researcher <a href="https://www.mentalworkpodcast.com/about/" data-airgap-id="8">Dr Bronwyn Milkins</a>.
Support the show by <a href="https://www.buymeacoffee.com/mentalwork" data-airgap-id="9">buying me a virtual coffee</a> ☕🍵
Have a question, episode idea or just want to say hi? <a href="https://www.instagram.com/_mentalworkpodcast/" data-airgap-id="10">DM Bron on Instagram</a>, leave a comment on the <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5ifKADwT3mw6yYDZb9rHji" data-airgap-id="11">Spotify episode</a>, or <a href="mailto:mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com" data-airgap-id="12">email mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com</a>
<a href="https://www.podpage.com/mentalwork/p/guest/" data-airgap-id="13">Apply to be a guest</a> / <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@MentalWorkPodcast" data-airgap-id="14">YouTube (with captions &amp; transcript)</a> / <a href="https://www.mentalworkpodcast.com/" data-airgap-id="15">Website</a>
CREDITS
Producer: Michael English
Music: <a href="https://home96.bandcamp.com/" data-airgap-id="16">Home</a>
Commitment: Mental Work believes in an inclusive and diverse mental health workforce. We honour the strength, resilience, and invaluable contributions of mental health workers with lived experiences of mental illness, disability, neurodivergence, LGBTIQA+ identities, and diverse culture and language. We recognise our First Nations colleagues as Traditional Custodians of the land and pay respect to Elders past, present, and emerging. Mental Work is recorded on unceded Whadjuk Noongar boodja.
Disclaimer: Mental Work provides informational content. Mental Work is not a psychological service and being a listener or guest does not establish a therapeutic relationship. Content should not be considered a replacement for professional consultation or therapy. All views expressed are personal, subject to change, and do not represent those of any affiliated employer, service, or organisation past or present. Efforts are made to ensure accuracy, but opinions may not always align with fact. Listeners are encouraged to thoughtfully assess the information presented and report any inaccuracies or concerns via <a href="mailto:mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com" data-airgap-id="17">email</a>. Further information can be found <a href="https://www.mentalworkpodcast.com/p/disclaimer/" data-airgap-id="18">here</a>.

Beyond the DSM: Intro to the Psychodynamic Diagnostic Manual (with Claire Trevitt)

Bron is joined by Fiona Mann (Clinical Psychologist and Board-Approved Supervisor) to chat about balancing parenting young children with building a career in psychology. Fiona shares how she fell pregnant halfway through her clinical Masters, worked through her registrar program with twins on the way, and now works in a NICU (Neonatal Intensive Care Unit), plus what she has learnt about flexibility, boundaries and redefining success.

They chat about:
👉🏽 Going through Masters, placements and registrar training with young children
👉🏻 Overwhelm, sick kids and blurred boundaries between work and home
👉 Answering a listener question about hours, childcare and not feeling alone
👉🏿 Managing NICU work while parenting

Thank you for generously sharing your experiences Fiona, it was a pleasure to have you on! 😊✨

Guest: Fiona Mann, Clinical Psychologist and Board-Approved Supervisor

LINKS
Email Fiona (she is open to supervision enquiries or an email exchange about this topic)!

THE END BITS

Mental Work is the podcast for psychologists about the realities of working in mental health, with an early-career focus. Hosted by psychologist/researcher Dr Bronwyn Milkins.

Support the show by buying me a virtual coffee ☕🍵

Have a question, episode idea or just want to say hi? DM Bron on Instagram, leave a comment on the Spotify episode, or email mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com

Apply to be a guest / YouTube (with captions & transcript) / Website

CREDITS

Producer: Michael English

Music: Home

Commitment: Mental Work believes in an inclusive and diverse mental health workforce. We honour the strength, resilience, and invaluable contributions of mental health workers with lived experiences of mental illness, disability, neurodivergence, LGBTIQA+ identities, and diverse culture and language. We recognise our First Nations colleagues as Traditional Custodians of the land and pay respect to Elders past, present, and emerging. Mental Work is recorded on unceded Whadjuk Noongar boodja.

Disclaimer: Mental Work provides informational content. Mental Work is not a psychological service and being a listener or guest does not establish a therapeutic relationship. Content should not be considered a replacement for professional consultation or therapy. All views expressed are personal, subject to change, and do not represent those of any affiliated employer, service, or organisation past or present. Efforts are made to ensure accuracy, but opinions may not always align with fact. Listeners are encouraged to thoughtfully assess the information presented and report any inaccuracies or concerns via email. Further information can be found here.

Bron is joined by Fiona Mann (Clinical Psychologist and Board-Approved Supervisor) to chat about balancing parenting young children with building a career in psychology. Fiona shares how she fell pregnant halfway through her clinical Masters, worked through her registrar program with twins on the way, and now works in a NICU (Neonatal Intensive Care Unit), plus what she has learnt about flexibility, boundaries and redefining success.
They chat about: 👉🏽 Going through Masters, placements and registrar training with young children 👉🏻 Overwhelm, sick kids and blurred boundaries between work and home 👉 Answering a listener question about hours, childcare and not feeling alone 👉🏿 Managing NICU work while parenting
Thank you for generously sharing your experiences Fiona, it was a pleasure to have you on! 😊✨
Guest: Fiona Mann, Clinical Psychologist and Board-Approved Supervisor
LINKS
<ul>
<li><a href="mailto:fiona.mann.psych@gmail.com">Email Fiona</a> (she is open to supervision enquiries or an email exchange about this topic)!</li>
</ul>
THE END BITS
Mental Work is the podcast for psychologists about the realities of working in mental health, with an early-career focus. Hosted by psychologist/researcher <a href="https://www.mentalworkpodcast.com/about/" data-airgap-id="8">Dr Bronwyn Milkins</a>.
Support the show by <a href="https://www.buymeacoffee.com/mentalwork" data-airgap-id="9">buying me a virtual coffee</a> ☕🍵
Have a question, episode idea or just want to say hi? <a href="https://www.instagram.com/_mentalworkpodcast/" data-airgap-id="10">DM Bron on Instagram</a>, leave a comment on the <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5ifKADwT3mw6yYDZb9rHji" data-airgap-id="11">Spotify episode</a>, or <a href="mailto:mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com" data-airgap-id="12">email mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com</a>
<a href="https://www.podpage.com/mentalwork/p/guest/" data-airgap-id="13">Apply to be a guest</a> / <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@MentalWorkPodcast" data-airgap-id="14">YouTube (with captions &amp; transcript)</a> / <a href="https://www.mentalworkpodcast.com/" data-airgap-id="15">Website</a>
CREDITS
Producer: Michael English
Music: <a href="https://home96.bandcamp.com/" data-airgap-id="16">Home</a>
Commitment: Mental Work believes in an inclusive and diverse mental health workforce. We honour the strength, resilience, and invaluable contributions of mental health workers with lived experiences of mental illness, disability, neurodivergence, LGBTIQA+ identities, and diverse culture and language. We recognise our First Nations colleagues as Traditional Custodians of the land and pay respect to Elders past, present, and emerging. Mental Work is recorded on unceded Whadjuk Noongar boodja.
Disclaimer: Mental Work provides informational content. Mental Work is not a psychological service and being a listener or guest does not establish a therapeutic relationship. Content should not be considered a replacement for professional consultation or therapy. All views expressed are personal, subject to change, and do not represent those of any affiliated employer, service, or organisation past or present. Efforts are made to ensure accuracy, but opinions may not always align with fact. Listeners are encouraged to thoughtfully assess the information presented and report any inaccuracies or concerns via <a href="mailto:mentalworkpodcast@gmail.com" data-airgap-id="17">email</a>. Further information can be found <a href="https://www.mentalworkpodcast.com/p/disclaimer/" data-airgap-id="18">here</a>.

Emotional labour (with James Clarke)

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