Bushkin. Welcome back to Medal of Honor Stories of Courage. I'm Malcolm Glawell. Today we have something a little different for you. A few weeks ago I spoke to a woman named Molly Hudgens. You likely don't know Molly or her story, but I think you should. Molly is a recipient of the Citizens Medal of Honor, which was first awarded in two thousand and eight to recognize ordinary Americans whose actions quote epitomize the concept of service beyond self, above and beyond their call of duty, whatever it may be. In Molly's case, her duty was as a guidance counselor at Sycamore Middle School in Tennessee, where in twenty sixteen, she came face to face with the potential school shooter and managed to talk him out of it. Through the course of the conversation, you'll hear in Molly many of the qualities we've tried to highlight in this series so far, faith, humility, dedication to service, and an incredible ability to think quickly under pressure, and of course, courage.

Bushkin. Welcome back to Medal of Honor Stories of Courage. I'm Malcolm Glawell. Today we have something a little different for you. A few weeks ago I spoke to a woman named Molly Hudgens. You likely don't know Molly or her story, but I think you should. Molly is a recipient of the Citizens Medal of Honor, which was first awarded in two thousand and eight to recognize ordinary Americans whose actions quote epitomize the concept of service beyond self, above and beyond their call of duty, whatever it may be. In Molly's case, her duty was as a guidance counselor at Sycamore Middle School in Tennessee, where in twenty sixteen, she came face to face with the potential school shooter and managed to talk him out of it. Through the course of the conversation, you'll hear in Molly many of the qualities we've tried to highlight in this series so far, faith, humility, dedication to service, and an incredible ability to think quickly under pressure, and of course, courage.

Molly, good morning, How are you.

Molly, good morning, How are you.

I'm good? Are you are? You're in your office at school.

I'm good? Are you are? You're in your office at school.

I'm in my office at school. Sure I am.

I'm in my office at school. Sure I am.

And you're in where you're in Pleasantville? But no, what's the day.

And you're in where you're in Pleasantville? But no, what's the day.

Of the town pleasant View, Tennessee, View, Tennessee.

Of the town pleasant View, Tennessee, View, Tennessee.

That's not where all the country stars live.

That's not where all the country stars live.

No, they do not live in this part of the world.

No, they do not live in this part of the world.

And how long? How long have you been teaching them?

And how long? How long have you been teaching them?

I just finished my twenty fifth year. I have spent my entire educational career. I got hired here at twenty two and so I've only worked here.

I just finished my twenty fifth year. I have spent my entire educational career. I got hired here at twenty two and so I've only worked here.

Yeah. Now, did were you always a guidance counselor No?

Yeah. Now, did were you always a guidance counselor No?

I started out actually as a teacher. I taught seventh and eighth grade language arts for eight years before I moved to the counseling departments. So this will be my I'll be starting my nineteenth year in the counseling department.

I started out actually as a teacher. I taught seventh and eighth grade language arts for eight years before I moved to the counseling departments. So this will be my I'll be starting my nineteenth year in the counseling department.

Yeah. And so you came to Sycamore straight out of college.

Yeah. And so you came to Sycamore straight out of college.

I sure did. I was a desperation higher our principal. Our principal had three teachers who were all leading consecutively on maternity leave, and I was planning to be a high school English teacher. This was a middle school, but I felt like it would be a way to get my foot in the door, and so I agreed to do it. I taught fifth grade, sixth grade, and seventh grade math, language, Arts, science, social stay all four subjects over the course of that one semester, and by the end of it, I just loved the school so much. I didn't think I could leave. I knew the kids would come and go, but the staff probably would. And that is so true of the culture here. I mean, our principal has never worked She's going to be starting her thirtieth year here at Sycamore, never works anywhere else. Our assistant principal has only worked in our county twenty five years. I've only been here, you know. So people tend to come here and stay, and that is such an important piece I think of our story is the culture that we have. People are very embedded.

I sure did. I was a desperation higher our principal. Our principal had three teachers who were all leading consecutively on maternity leave, and I was planning to be a high school English teacher. This was a middle school, but I felt like it would be a way to get my foot in the door, and so I agreed to do it. I taught fifth grade, sixth grade, and seventh grade math, language, Arts, science, social stay all four subjects over the course of that one semester, and by the end of it, I just loved the school so much. I didn't think I could leave. I knew the kids would come and go, but the staff probably would. And that is so true of the culture here. I mean, our principal has never worked She's going to be starting her thirtieth year here at Sycamore, never works anywhere else. Our assistant principal has only worked in our county twenty five years. I've only been here, you know. So people tend to come here and stay, and that is such an important piece I think of our story is the culture that we have. People are very embedded.

Why do you think people stay? What's special about the school?

Why do you think people stay? What's special about the school?

Well, because it's very much a family, and just like a family, we don't always agree, we don't always get along. That people who work here want to be here. We are notorious for hiring our former students. I think we have eight of them on staff right now. People come back. You know it's a good place to be. You know that you're loved and cared about. And we use the word family a lot to describe Sycamore, and so it would be hard to leave your family. So for me, it's been impossib to leave here.

Well, because it's very much a family, and just like a family, we don't always agree, we don't always get along. That people who work here want to be here. We are notorious for hiring our former students. I think we have eight of them on staff right now. People come back. You know it's a good place to be. You know that you're loved and cared about. And we use the word family a lot to describe Sycamore, and so it would be hard to leave your family. So for me, it's been impossib to leave here.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So you'd been there for years, and you had told me you had had prior to what happened that day, you had been increasingly engaged with the question of school violence. Tell me about how did it come to your attention in those in that period.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So you'd been there for years, and you had told me you had had prior to what happened that day, you had been increasingly engaged with the question of school violence. Tell me about how did it come to your attention in those in that period.

So my first year here at Sycamore was the ninety eight ninety nine school year when we had six mass shootings across our country that culminated with the shooting at Columbine on April twentieth of nineteen ninety nine. And I remember that day vividly. I went home, and that was when we had just started having twenty four hour news coverage and you could watch it all day long, and I was I was just fascinated, not by I think a lot of the details that most of the general public wanted to know about the specific situation, But what I couldn't write my mind around is how could two boys create a plan of this magnitude over a year's time and nobody know about it? And so I started researching, literally just googled anything that I could find about mass shootings that had happened on school campuses. I read every book. I think I own every book that's been written about a school shooting all because in my mind, I thought, if I could, what if we had a kid like that here at school? What if he was in my class? Would I be able to recognize that child was in trouble? Is there?

So my first year here at Sycamore was the ninety eight ninety nine school year when we had six mass shootings across our country that culminated with the shooting at Columbine on April twentieth of nineteen ninety nine. And I remember that day vividly. I went home, and that was when we had just started having twenty four hour news coverage and you could watch it all day long, and I was I was just fascinated, not by I think a lot of the details that most of the general public wanted to know about the specific situation, But what I couldn't write my mind around is how could two boys create a plan of this magnitude over a year's time and nobody know about it? And so I started researching, literally just googled anything that I could find about mass shootings that had happened on school campuses. I read every book. I think I own every book that's been written about a school shooting all because in my mind, I thought, if I could, what if we had a kid like that here at school? What if he was in my class? Would I be able to recognize that child was in trouble? Is there?

You know?

You know?

In my mind, I thought, is there a way to interrupt this process? To find them when they're young enough that you could then intervene and change that pathway, change that direction. And even I spent so much time doing research, I ended up on the Homeland Security watch list at one points. And I understand now why, Yeah, I mean I was contacted by someone and just stated, why are you looking into so much of this? And I think in hindsight, I mean, I even tried to find specifically writings that were taken from at the time those two particular attackers at Columbine, because I felt like, if I want to find a kid like this, I'm going to have to understand them, and I'm an English teacher. Most of what is going to come out would possibly come through writings that they would do in class, and so that started the path. I spent ten years doing that recording, writing down, taking notes on everything that I knew, and I went to our director's schools and so listen, there's only eighteen school counselors in our county, but we don't really have many trainings that are geared toward what we do. You know, is it possible that I could, because by that point I'd moved to the counseling department. You know, is it possible for me to do a training? I've written one. It's called Recognizing Red Flags an Educator's Role in Preventing School violence, and it was an in depth psychological analysis of about thirty school shooters. So I think that God was preparing me in a mighty way. He gave me eighteen years of talking to kids, both in classroom settings and individuals, and he gave me all this content knowledge that I had learned about psychopathy. I'd learned about psychosis. I've learned about even hostage negotiations and things that most people wouldn't just know in their average lives. I'd spend a great deal of time fully enmeshed in this topic. For reasons I didn't understand, and to be quite honest, my family was concerned about that. You know, why would I be so focused on this? And I would just always say, I'm not sure, but I just feel like I have to know as much as I can.

In my mind, I thought, is there a way to interrupt this process? To find them when they're young enough that you could then intervene and change that pathway, change that direction. And even I spent so much time doing research, I ended up on the Homeland Security watch list at one points. And I understand now why, Yeah, I mean I was contacted by someone and just stated, why are you looking into so much of this? And I think in hindsight, I mean, I even tried to find specifically writings that were taken from at the time those two particular attackers at Columbine, because I felt like, if I want to find a kid like this, I'm going to have to understand them, and I'm an English teacher. Most of what is going to come out would possibly come through writings that they would do in class, and so that started the path. I spent ten years doing that recording, writing down, taking notes on everything that I knew, and I went to our director's schools and so listen, there's only eighteen school counselors in our county, but we don't really have many trainings that are geared toward what we do. You know, is it possible that I could, because by that point I'd moved to the counseling department. You know, is it possible for me to do a training? I've written one. It's called Recognizing Red Flags an Educator's Role in Preventing School violence, and it was an in depth psychological analysis of about thirty school shooters. So I think that God was preparing me in a mighty way. He gave me eighteen years of talking to kids, both in classroom settings and individuals, and he gave me all this content knowledge that I had learned about psychopathy. I'd learned about psychosis. I've learned about even hostage negotiations and things that most people wouldn't just know in their average lives. I'd spend a great deal of time fully enmeshed in this topic. For reasons I didn't understand, and to be quite honest, my family was concerned about that. You know, why would I be so focused on this? And I would just always say, I'm not sure, but I just feel like I have to know as much as I can.

Yeah, I know, it's the whole thing is kind of crazy.

Yeah, I know, it's the whole thing is kind of crazy.

It is.

It is.

Give me a sense of what you learned from that immersion in all of that, What did you learn that prepared you for what happened that day.

Give me a sense of what you learned from that immersion in all of that, What did you learn that prepared you for what happened that day.

One of the biggest things I learned is that as adults, we spend a lot of time talking to kids, and I don't know that we listen as much as we should. And when I use the word listen, I don't just mean verbally, I mean through their writings. I had an open window to some of them, just based on topics we researched or we talked about, or they chose to write about when they could do free writing. And I looked at writings taken from the attackers at Columbine. Several of those things were things they wrote for class assignments, and so I think I started realizing if kids are writing about violence, especially if it's connected to prior events or prior people in history who committed atrocities, then I needed to pay attention. Those all became red flags.

One of the biggest things I learned is that as adults, we spend a lot of time talking to kids, and I don't know that we listen as much as we should. And when I use the word listen, I don't just mean verbally, I mean through their writings. I had an open window to some of them, just based on topics we researched or we talked about, or they chose to write about when they could do free writing. And I looked at writings taken from the attackers at Columbine. Several of those things were things they wrote for class assignments, and so I think I started realizing if kids are writing about violence, especially if it's connected to prior events or prior people in history who committed atrocities, then I needed to pay attention. Those all became red flags.

Did you all these years, when you're immersing yourself into subject, do you imagine that one day you would be face to face with a potential shooter.

Did you all these years, when you're immersing yourself into subject, do you imagine that one day you would be face to face with a potential shooter.

You know, I've never been asked that and never really thought about it. So I'll tell you the first thing that came into my head when you asked that was I had ironically had a dream a couple of times. Now. The scenario that played out here was nothing at all like the dream I had had, but it did involve a kid bringing a gun to school and me somehow being involved in a peaceful resolution. And I assumed at the time that that was just because I had was reading so much about this. I really thought that the intention. I really thought that God's plan was just for me to have a passion that I could go and talk to other people about, to try to convince them of importance of not just school safety, but of mental health and in brain health. And I wanted people to pay attention to kids who were struggling. I felt like there were a lot that had flown under the radar that I had probably missed, you know, as a teacher and becoming a counselor could see more of just in their faces and their words that they were struggling, so that that could bring them in then, you know, and have those conversations. So I don't I never really thought that that would happen here, But in the moment when I realized what was going on, I did have a flash before my eyes. It was you know, people talk sometimes about if you're going to pass away, sometimes your life will flash before your eyes, But for me, it was not that. It was a flash of all these things I had read and researched, and I remember thinking, you know, I was kind of like Noah, and I was trying to build an arc and nobody had ever seen it rain. So people didn't really want to talk about school violence. They just it was kind of the head and the sand mentality that if we just pretend that it's not going to happen, or we don't talk about it, we're not going to invite it in. And so I sat there on those moments when I realized how serious this was and thought for such a time as this, And you know, Esther is one of my favorite characters in the Bible, and I remember thinking, wow, Lord, you know of all the hundreds, you know, of thousands of schools, and probably as many kids are more. You know, you brought that kid to Sycamore Middle School, and you you brought him to me. And it's like, all of a sudden, I had this moment of like, this is why. And I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. I still can't, as you can tell, obviously, I still stand in all of that.

You know, I've never been asked that and never really thought about it. So I'll tell you the first thing that came into my head when you asked that was I had ironically had a dream a couple of times. Now. The scenario that played out here was nothing at all like the dream I had had, but it did involve a kid bringing a gun to school and me somehow being involved in a peaceful resolution. And I assumed at the time that that was just because I had was reading so much about this. I really thought that the intention. I really thought that God's plan was just for me to have a passion that I could go and talk to other people about, to try to convince them of importance of not just school safety, but of mental health and in brain health. And I wanted people to pay attention to kids who were struggling. I felt like there were a lot that had flown under the radar that I had probably missed, you know, as a teacher and becoming a counselor could see more of just in their faces and their words that they were struggling, so that that could bring them in then, you know, and have those conversations. So I don't I never really thought that that would happen here, But in the moment when I realized what was going on, I did have a flash before my eyes. It was you know, people talk sometimes about if you're going to pass away, sometimes your life will flash before your eyes, But for me, it was not that. It was a flash of all these things I had read and researched, and I remember thinking, you know, I was kind of like Noah, and I was trying to build an arc and nobody had ever seen it rain. So people didn't really want to talk about school violence. They just it was kind of the head and the sand mentality that if we just pretend that it's not going to happen, or we don't talk about it, we're not going to invite it in. And so I sat there on those moments when I realized how serious this was and thought for such a time as this, And you know, Esther is one of my favorite characters in the Bible, and I remember thinking, wow, Lord, you know of all the hundreds, you know, of thousands of schools, and probably as many kids are more. You know, you brought that kid to Sycamore Middle School, and you you brought him to me. And it's like, all of a sudden, I had this moment of like, this is why. And I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. I still can't, as you can tell, obviously, I still stand in all of that.

Let's talk about that morning. So this is twenty sixteen. Do you remember what's the exact date.

Let's talk about that morning. So this is twenty sixteen. Do you remember what's the exact date.

September twenty eighth, And I remember that because it was the day before my fortieth birthday.

September twenty eighth, And I remember that because it was the day before my fortieth birthday.

So it's the beginning of the school year. You were three weeks in or so. And is it anything unusual about that? Is it a day unfolding like any other?

So it's the beginning of the school year. You were three weeks in or so. And is it anything unusual about that? Is it a day unfolding like any other?

At the beginning, it's a day unfolding. I was training to run my first marathon, and I had run nine point six nine miles that morning before the treadmill overheated and went outside to finish that last little you know, part around running around our pool, just so I could say I had my ten miles in.

At the beginning, it's a day unfolding. I was training to run my first marathon, and I had run nine point six nine miles that morning before the treadmill overheated and went outside to finish that last little you know, part around running around our pool, just so I could say I had my ten miles in.

Yeah, I got oh you're I'm a runner too, but oh yeah, I recognize the signs you're serious.

Yeah, I got oh you're I'm a runner too, but oh yeah, I recognize the signs you're serious.

Yeah, so I knew, you know, I got dressed for school. I wore clothes that later I would look down at my lap and think, you know, if I were going to die in this, if this was gonna be my crime scene photo, I would addressed better. I would have not had on this eight dollar skirt that I don't even like, you know, I think I think God gave me some moments of humor in the midst of this, But yeah, dropped my I'll describe that.

Yeah, so I knew, you know, I got dressed for school. I wore clothes that later I would look down at my lap and think, you know, if I were going to die in this, if this was gonna be my crime scene photo, I would addressed better. I would have not had on this eight dollar skirt that I don't even like, you know, I think I think God gave me some moments of humor in the midst of this, But yeah, dropped my I'll describe that.

You what what was the skirt? You were were you were skirt? It was? What's going on over there?

You what what was the skirt? You were were you were skirt? It was? What's going on over there?

Well, because the previous day I had been in classroom guidance all day, and I knew that I was going to be back in my office trying to unearth all the paperwork emails I'd gotten the day before, so I probably wouldn't be leaving it. Not many people would see me. You know, when you're when you're about to experience the best and the worst day of your life, the biggest crisis you'll ever face, you are not only are you not going to be prepared for it, you most likely will not be dressed for it. So I wasn't, you know, And I thought I was just going to be here. I knew the kids wouldn't care what I had on. I'd be sitting behind my desk all day. It was a comfortable skirt, but it was the black and white palm tree printed skirts, and like I said, I didn't even really like it, but it was eight dollars, so I bought it. I have three of them.

Well, because the previous day I had been in classroom guidance all day, and I knew that I was going to be back in my office trying to unearth all the paperwork emails I'd gotten the day before, so I probably wouldn't be leaving it. Not many people would see me. You know, when you're when you're about to experience the best and the worst day of your life, the biggest crisis you'll ever face, you are not only are you not going to be prepared for it, you most likely will not be dressed for it. So I wasn't, you know, And I thought I was just going to be here. I knew the kids wouldn't care what I had on. I'd be sitting behind my desk all day. It was a comfortable skirt, but it was the black and white palm tree printed skirts, and like I said, I didn't even really like it, but it was eight dollars, so I bought it. I have three of them.

Now, yeah, well it's your lucky skirt at.

Now, yeah, well it's your lucky skirt at.

Skirt, Yeah, but yeah. I dropped my oldest son off at his coach's house, because kids, if your parent's a teacher, you have to be at school first thing in the morning, way before everybody else, so he would ride to school later with his coach. I dropped our youngest son off at daycare, and I came to school and I pulled in the parking lot and I saw all these kids like starting to gather outside, and I remember thinking, oh, my goodness, you know, it's a kitchen on fire. What's going on? So I jumped out of the car kind of started moving toward the kids and realized that September twenty eighth of twenty sixteen was National cu at the Pole Day, the one day a year student so choose they can gather at the base of their school's flagpole for prayer. And so my intention was to run in here, throw my things down behind my desk, and run back out to supervise, because you leave very many middle school kids alone for very long, and something's going to happen that's going to require a lot of paperwork on the part of an adult. And so I just thought i'd run out in supervising. And that was just never meant to be because while I was here, standing here from from my things down, glanced at my calendar, this young man came in and and I had met I recognized him immediately because I just met with him the friday before. I remember when he came in, I realized his defenses were way up. But I also realized pretty quickly I'd never seen that kid before, and that bothered me. And I said, hey, you know, I don't think we've met, and so I kind of introduced myself and and I said, you know, I understand your you're kind of new to our school. And he said, you know, yes, ma'am. I came in last year and I said, okay, well that that kind of explains that, you know, and we're newly into this eighth grade year, so it just hadn't met him, and so I just I just told to me, I just thought maybe we could kind of check in see how things are going. And he sat down right across from my desk here I had two brown chairs. I've learned that some kids, if they talk to you, they want a barrier between you and them for comfort purposes. Other kids, I have a chair that sits right beside my desk because some of them they want their needs to be touching yours. They're fine with being close to you. And so he had sat down across from me, and we had just kind of started talking, and then all of a sudden, it was kind of like the damn broke and there were all these things in his life that I felt like he'd been holding on to that he just let pour out and I kind of just skooted back in my chair and let him talk. And he did. But one of the things that inside of me, in hindsight, was another red flag that was raised, was the fact that he was telling me this story that I knew aspects of it were most likely not possible, but there was just enough of it that some of it could have been probable. And I remember writing some notes on the sticky note because this was a Friday, and I thought, I'm going to look these things up over the weekend and see if this is even possible. But what really struck me was, I think this kid believes this story. You know, he's weaving this together, and I think he'd believes.

Skirt, Yeah, but yeah. I dropped my oldest son off at his coach's house, because kids, if your parent's a teacher, you have to be at school first thing in the morning, way before everybody else, so he would ride to school later with his coach. I dropped our youngest son off at daycare, and I came to school and I pulled in the parking lot and I saw all these kids like starting to gather outside, and I remember thinking, oh, my goodness, you know, it's a kitchen on fire. What's going on? So I jumped out of the car kind of started moving toward the kids and realized that September twenty eighth of twenty sixteen was National cu at the Pole Day, the one day a year student so choose they can gather at the base of their school's flagpole for prayer. And so my intention was to run in here, throw my things down behind my desk, and run back out to supervise, because you leave very many middle school kids alone for very long, and something's going to happen that's going to require a lot of paperwork on the part of an adult. And so I just thought i'd run out in supervising. And that was just never meant to be because while I was here, standing here from from my things down, glanced at my calendar, this young man came in and and I had met I recognized him immediately because I just met with him the friday before. I remember when he came in, I realized his defenses were way up. But I also realized pretty quickly I'd never seen that kid before, and that bothered me. And I said, hey, you know, I don't think we've met, and so I kind of introduced myself and and I said, you know, I understand your you're kind of new to our school. And he said, you know, yes, ma'am. I came in last year and I said, okay, well that that kind of explains that, you know, and we're newly into this eighth grade year, so it just hadn't met him, and so I just I just told to me, I just thought maybe we could kind of check in see how things are going. And he sat down right across from my desk here I had two brown chairs. I've learned that some kids, if they talk to you, they want a barrier between you and them for comfort purposes. Other kids, I have a chair that sits right beside my desk because some of them they want their needs to be touching yours. They're fine with being close to you. And so he had sat down across from me, and we had just kind of started talking, and then all of a sudden, it was kind of like the damn broke and there were all these things in his life that I felt like he'd been holding on to that he just let pour out and I kind of just skooted back in my chair and let him talk. And he did. But one of the things that inside of me, in hindsight, was another red flag that was raised, was the fact that he was telling me this story that I knew aspects of it were most likely not possible, but there was just enough of it that some of it could have been probable. And I remember writing some notes on the sticky note because this was a Friday, and I thought, I'm going to look these things up over the weekend and see if this is even possible. But what really struck me was, I think this kid believes this story. You know, he's weaving this together, and I think he'd believes.

I know you don't want to tell me this story, but what sort of a story is he telling you? Can you give me just a sense.

I know you don't want to tell me this story, but what sort of a story is he telling you? Can you give me just a sense.

Of just a story about some things that he was involved in that were very adult like, kind of like if I told you a story about me owning a fortune five hundred company, right, you know, I'm sitting here, I'm an adult. I can tell you this story. I can probably create a pretty good one. But the whole time you're to me thinking, well, I've never heard of Molly Eedgens before, you know. So there were pieces of it that just did not seem possible. But what fascinated me was I thought, I think this kid believes what he's telling me, and I think he believes that I believe him, And so obviously I was concerned, so and of course I learned a lot about psychology that I would not have known otherwise. I've read the works of doctor Peter Langman, who is considered to be one of the world's leading experts on mass s sheotings that happened with teenagers, especially in school environments, and doctor Langman's work was crucial to me in the moments that this was happening, because I was able to recognize, based on all of these other case studies, what I believed was a psychosis or psychoses in process, and began to learn a very valuable lesson that day that reality is really about perspective. It doesn't really matter what's real, It only matters what people perceive to be real. And so in these moments with this child, it became crucial for me to accept his reality. And I do remember praying you know Lord helped me to not get lost in this. But I had to try to meet him where he was. We use those words a lot, and meet the child where they are, and that was very important. I don't think that that piece would have occurred had I not had all this background research. So he talked for forty five minutes and I remember thinking, he's missed an entire class period. I've got to get him back to class. And so I said to him myself, listen, you have you know, you've really unburdened a lot today, you've shared a lot. Would you like to come back maybe one day next week and then we can meet again and talk and and he he said yes, he would like to do that, and so I wrote his name on my list.

Of just a story about some things that he was involved in that were very adult like, kind of like if I told you a story about me owning a fortune five hundred company, right, you know, I'm sitting here, I'm an adult. I can tell you this story. I can probably create a pretty good one. But the whole time you're to me thinking, well, I've never heard of Molly Eedgens before, you know. So there were pieces of it that just did not seem possible. But what fascinated me was I thought, I think this kid believes what he's telling me, and I think he believes that I believe him, And so obviously I was concerned, so and of course I learned a lot about psychology that I would not have known otherwise. I've read the works of doctor Peter Langman, who is considered to be one of the world's leading experts on mass s sheotings that happened with teenagers, especially in school environments, and doctor Langman's work was crucial to me in the moments that this was happening, because I was able to recognize, based on all of these other case studies, what I believed was a psychosis or psychoses in process, and began to learn a very valuable lesson that day that reality is really about perspective. It doesn't really matter what's real, It only matters what people perceive to be real. And so in these moments with this child, it became crucial for me to accept his reality. And I do remember praying you know Lord helped me to not get lost in this. But I had to try to meet him where he was. We use those words a lot, and meet the child where they are, and that was very important. I don't think that that piece would have occurred had I not had all this background research. So he talked for forty five minutes and I remember thinking, he's missed an entire class period. I've got to get him back to class. And so I said to him myself, listen, you have you know, you've really unburdened a lot today, you've shared a lot. Would you like to come back maybe one day next week and then we can meet again and talk and and he he said yes, he would like to do that, and so I wrote his name on my list.

That's the crucial moment.

That's the crucial moment.

The crucial moment, oh shuts.

The crucial moment, oh shuts.

In this whole. I mean, I know where there's many much more to the story, but that moment, you've established a connection with him, and you've you're the safe place he can go, and that's why he comes back, I think.

In this whole. I mean, I know where there's many much more to the story, but that moment, you've established a connection with him, and you've you're the safe place he can go, and that's why he comes back, I think.

So. I think there were several things. The biggest one I was willing to listen. I didn't in a I didn't challenge what he said. I didn't point out anything that I thought was a falsehood. I just listened and gave him a place to share that and then offered to listen more. And so I think you're right. You know it was a it was a safe place, and that's most likely why he did come back.

So. I think there were several things. The biggest one I was willing to listen. I didn't in a I didn't challenge what he said. I didn't point out anything that I thought was a falsehood. I just listened and gave him a place to share that and then offered to listen more. And so I think you're right. You know it was a it was a safe place, and that's most likely why he did come back.

So you're looking at this boy he's boy, and he's telling you a story that is in part maybe part real, with part fantasy. And what sort of other signs is he giving you? Is he is he agitated? Is he hostile to you? Is he No?

So you're looking at this boy he's boy, and he's telling you a story that is in part maybe part real, with part fantasy. And what sort of other signs is he giving you? Is he is he agitated? Is he hostile to you? Is he No?

Quite the opposite. Actually, when I look back on that, I think about how he was very articulate, he was very bright. We made good eye contact, there was good conversation, you know. He I did realize that I had perceived him just in hindsight, as a quieter student. His grades were solid, he did not have a massive disciplinary record. When we talk about a lot of these kids who commit these atrocities, one of the things that people fail to recognize is that a lot of times they are the outliers. They are not on the radar of anyone. Sometimes they are, but a lot of the times they're not. And that is because if someone is suffering from a psychosis, they can be psychotic in one way and function perfectly normally in many other ways. They can hold jobs, they can come to school, they can do work, they can participate in class discussion, they can have friends. A lot of them become very good, especially the older, they get at covering up what they perceive to be taboo behavior, and I think that some of the things that he was experiencing, he was testing the waters with me to see how I would react that Friday, to see if I would react strongly, or if I would say, you know, well, that's not possible, or if I would question what he was saying. And I didn't, And that, to me was another crucial piece, because you know, you fast forward to the next week, we come back on Monday, I had this running list of kids to see. We try to see them in the order that they request to see them, kind of like they've taken a ticket, unless obviously it's a crisis situation that then involves us to bump them, you know, to the front of the line. But I never got to him on Monday, and then on Tuesday, I was in classroom guidance with eighth graders all day long, and so Wednesday morning I just hadn't gotten to him yet. But that's okay, because he came back.

Quite the opposite. Actually, when I look back on that, I think about how he was very articulate, he was very bright. We made good eye contact, there was good conversation, you know. He I did realize that I had perceived him just in hindsight, as a quieter student. His grades were solid, he did not have a massive disciplinary record. When we talk about a lot of these kids who commit these atrocities, one of the things that people fail to recognize is that a lot of times they are the outliers. They are not on the radar of anyone. Sometimes they are, but a lot of the times they're not. And that is because if someone is suffering from a psychosis, they can be psychotic in one way and function perfectly normally in many other ways. They can hold jobs, they can come to school, they can do work, they can participate in class discussion, they can have friends. A lot of them become very good, especially the older, they get at covering up what they perceive to be taboo behavior, and I think that some of the things that he was experiencing, he was testing the waters with me to see how I would react that Friday, to see if I would react strongly, or if I would say, you know, well, that's not possible, or if I would question what he was saying. And I didn't, And that, to me was another crucial piece, because you know, you fast forward to the next week, we come back on Monday, I had this running list of kids to see. We try to see them in the order that they request to see them, kind of like they've taken a ticket, unless obviously it's a crisis situation that then involves us to bump them, you know, to the front of the line. But I never got to him on Monday, and then on Tuesday, I was in classroom guidance with eighth graders all day long, and so Wednesday morning I just hadn't gotten to him yet. But that's okay, because he came back.

We'll be back in a minute, So tell me about that. It's Wednesday morning, and is he Is he in your office when you arrive or are you in your office and he comes through the door.

We'll be back in a minute, So tell me about that. It's Wednesday morning, and is he Is he in your office when you arrive or are you in your office and he comes through the door.

No, I had just put my things down to go back out for the prayer at the poll to kind of supervise, and he came in and he said, hey, miss Hudgens, would it be okay if I came back to talk to you during related arts, which is the time where kids have pe or art or health. I looked at my calendar. I knew eighth grade I had that at ten thirty. I didn't have anything scheduled for that time. So I said, hey, that no problem. You just come back then. If you need a note from your teacher, you let me know. And he said okay, and he left, and I just thought, well, I hadn't gotten him yet, but when they come back again, you usually bump them up higher on the list, and so I thought, I'll see him first thing this morning at ten thirty. And so then I went about my morning duty. I mean, it's eerie in some ways to watch myself on surveillance video. I'm walking through the hallways of the school. I stopped and straighten the lanyard of one of our eighth grade teachers I'd worked with for twenty years, never thinking at all that anything's wrong. I mean, I'm coming back to the counseling department, and I'm almost skipping because I know that Glenn, my co counselor, has prepared breakfast and we're gonna eat and talk about our day. And I was in Glenn's office, which is adjacent to mine, with my back to the door, when the young man came in and I noticed he was there because Glenn looked up from his plate and he said, well, hey, son, you know what can we do for you? And I heard the kid say I was supposed to meet with Miss Hudgens at ten thirty, but I don't think I can wait until then. And I remember looking at Glenn and almost like rolling my eyes, and I was thinking, oh, my goodness, my breakfast is going to be cold, and then thinking that that was kind of selfish, and just turning and smiling and saying, well, hey, honey, that's okay. You just head on over to my office and I'll be over there in a second. And so I remember like wolfing down, you know, the rest of breakfast, and dropping the dishes in the sink and coming in and closing the door and just walking around and sitting down right here and just saying, well, hey, babe, what's going on, which is how I usually start all of their conversations. And then pretty quickly I realized something was different. His mannerisms, his facial expressions seemed different than the week before. And I think the reason that I really recognized this was my body reacted. First, my heart rates started to pounds. I remember thinking that I could hear my pulse in my ears, and I thought, I don't think my heart sounds like this when I'm running, you know. And then I felt like somebody took a cup of something warm and like poured it on top of my head, like it was running down my body. And I remember even saying to myself, like kind of steadying myself at the desk and saying to myself, Molly, don't faint. He was looking around the room, eyes kind of darting in different places. He seemed very nervous, which was nothing like the way he had appeared the week before. And then he started to ask me a series of questions that obviously spiked my level of concern. He started asking if, then questions, if I do this, what are you going to do? They were terrifying, and I remember thinking, play dumb, and so I remember saying, well, honey, I don't know what I would do, but why would you do that? And frantically I start thinking about what my options are because in that moment, I just had this thought, and I think the Lord gave it to me. It was he's got a gun. And then I start I remember praying. I remember saying, Lord, if there's anything separating you from me, take it away, because if this is it, if I'm going to die today in my office, you know, in this tress skirt I don't like the day before I turned forty, I want to know where I'm going. I want to know I'm okay. I remember saying, take care of my boys and help me be brave. I mean, it was a thirty second prayer probably, And then I start trying to focus on what he is saying to me, and all the while I'm thinking about the teachers who were right across the hall. I remember thinking about about the number of students they had. I knew their backs would be to the door, and for some reason in my mind, I thought that's where he'll go first. There'll be his first victims. And it dawns on me the only thing standing between him and them is me, and I remember thinking, you got to do everything you can, like you got to do everything you can. So I start really listening to what he's saying. He would go back to rehash some of the things that he had been so concerned about the week before. All the while I am frantically trying to think about what I will do if I can get this gun. Can I just pull the trigger and unload it into the ceiling? I remember, you know, but I remember looking up here and thinking, we have a drop ceiling. It's a steel roof. This building was built in nineteen seventy eight, and I had read a lot. I knew what the trajectory of bullets would do inside of a cinder block room, and I remember thinking that that's not going to work. And I had this thought, you're going to talk your way out of this. And I remember thinking, you know, for a kid who spent a whole lot of time in trouble in elementary school because I just couldn't seem to stop talking, yet had gotten a job where I talked all day, it worked out great for me, right, And so I just remember thinking, you don't have to talk yourway eye this. At one point in the conversation, he unzips his jacket and he sticked his he stuck his hand inside of it, and I knew, I knew what it was. And he started tapping on something. And I say this all the time when I tell our story. Something rose up in me and I remember thinking, not my school, not my school. This will not happen here. This will not I will kill you or you will kill me. But you're not leaving that room. And I'll tell you I had never thought about harming anybody. I mean, I'm a counselor what we want to help people. That's not ingrained in our in our DNA. But in that moment, if it was going to be him or those kids, or him or one of those staff members, or him or me, it was going to be him. There was no way he was going to leave this room. I didn't know what I would have to do. I remember thinking at one point, thank you Lord. You know you've had me training all these months for a marathon that I'm supposed to run in three weeks. I'm of the best physical shape of my life. If this becomes physical, I think I have a chance that when you started to tap on that box, I remember thinking I had to take the bait, and for some reason that made me furious, and so I looked at him and I just said, slightly sarcastically, I said, what are you tapping on? And I remember he kind of cocked his head to one side and he was like a pencil box. And I thought, no, it's not I've never sent in an eighth grade with a pencil box. But something again in me said, don't push Molly, and so we just kept talking and then at one point he looks at me and he says, Miss Hudgens, I've got something to tell you that I bet nobody's ever told you before. And I knew what he was going to say, but I said, well, honey, I don't know. I've been doing this job for a long time. My doubt there's anything you can tell me I haven't heard before. And he said, I bet nobody's ever told you they had a loaded gun. And again, I said the first thing that came into my head, and I think the Lord gave me this. I said, well, no, honey, they haven't, but you probably wouldn't be the first person to have one here. And he unzipped his jacket the rest of the way and he pulled out the gun. He laid it right here on the desk in front of me, with the base of the gun facing away from me. I remember reading the word millennium upside down and backwards and frantically trying to figure out I thought it was a nine millimeter. Later we would learn that it was a forty five. That only matters in terms of the number of bullets the gun can hold, and I knew that. Then he unzipped his jacket and he reached into the outside pocket and he pulled out an additional magazine of ammunition, and he stood it up right beside the gun on my desk, and I start frantically trying to count the bullets that you can vaguely see through the side of the magazine. And then he pulls out a holster that we would later learn he had used to attach the additional magazine to his ankle. And so he lays all these things on the desk in front of me, and it strikes me, you know, I'm like a three foot target. And so I remember standing up and leaning out, and I put my hands on like on the gun, and I said, honey, why don't we talk about what's going on, and or why don't you want me take these and then we can talk about what's going on? And he yanked it all away. He shoved the magazine and the holster back into his outer pocket where they had been to begin with, and he held a gun in his left hand, pointed down with the floor. And so I am already like sort of halfway standing here because I've leaned over to touch the gun. So I just stood up the rest of the way and I put my hands up, and all I start being flooded in my mind with all these things I've learned. Is this a hostage or a non hostage situation? You know, if it's a hostage situation, the goal is to lower their expectations until eventually the hostage taker realizes their best they're not probably going to get what they want, and their best option is to leave that situation. If it's a non hostage situation, the person already has what they want and you're not trying to lower expectations. You're trying to lower their emotions. So I remember thinking to myself, You've got a lower his emotion, Stay calm, let him feel as if he has power. So I walk around the chair that sits at the end of my desk, and I got down on my knees and I think I heard that, get on your knees, and I realize now, you know, I was trying to put myself in a subservient position because now I am physically lower than him, even in height. And I remember hearing he's right handed. I knew he had taken the gun out with his right hand, but he now had it in his left. So I put my left hand on his right shoulder, just like a like to comfort him. And then I just reached over with my right hand and I interlaced the fingers of my right hand with his right hand, and I remember thinking, well, if you're gonna shoot me, you're gonna have to do it with your non a dominant hand. And I just started talking. I couldn't believe this was happening. You know you asked earlier about that. Did you ever think something like this will happen? No? But at the same time, I remember thinking a couple times, you're prepared for this than anybody else in this building. I work with some amazing educators who are very intellectual people, but I knew that none of them had researched this study this, so in my mind, I thought this was the perfect place if he was going to come here. I tried to start fully engaging him in conversation, and not too far into that conversation, the worst case scenario happens when I start to hear noises in the hallway and I realized the kids are changing classes. I can hear the toilets start to flush in the girl's restaurant right here behind me. You can hear out in the hallway the locker doors are slamming. The kids are talking there, yelling to each other. And then I thought, get ready, because here come the teachers. I could see them out of my peripheral vision, passing the glass pane in my door. At one point Glenn would come and stand there and look in, and I wouldn't make eye contact with him because I was afraid if I did, he would realize something was not right and he would come in. He stood there for probably I don't know, twenty seconds maybe, and then he left, and later I asked him, I said, listen, I'm so glad you didn't come in. You weren't supposed to, But what kept you from that? And he said, well, Molly, I looked in there, and you were down on your knees, and I thought, well, lord, she's praying with him. She's gonna be in trouble. But whatever. He came back to his office.

No, I had just put my things down to go back out for the prayer at the poll to kind of supervise, and he came in and he said, hey, miss Hudgens, would it be okay if I came back to talk to you during related arts, which is the time where kids have pe or art or health. I looked at my calendar. I knew eighth grade I had that at ten thirty. I didn't have anything scheduled for that time. So I said, hey, that no problem. You just come back then. If you need a note from your teacher, you let me know. And he said okay, and he left, and I just thought, well, I hadn't gotten him yet, but when they come back again, you usually bump them up higher on the list, and so I thought, I'll see him first thing this morning at ten thirty. And so then I went about my morning duty. I mean, it's eerie in some ways to watch myself on surveillance video. I'm walking through the hallways of the school. I stopped and straighten the lanyard of one of our eighth grade teachers I'd worked with for twenty years, never thinking at all that anything's wrong. I mean, I'm coming back to the counseling department, and I'm almost skipping because I know that Glenn, my co counselor, has prepared breakfast and we're gonna eat and talk about our day. And I was in Glenn's office, which is adjacent to mine, with my back to the door, when the young man came in and I noticed he was there because Glenn looked up from his plate and he said, well, hey, son, you know what can we do for you? And I heard the kid say I was supposed to meet with Miss Hudgens at ten thirty, but I don't think I can wait until then. And I remember looking at Glenn and almost like rolling my eyes, and I was thinking, oh, my goodness, my breakfast is going to be cold, and then thinking that that was kind of selfish, and just turning and smiling and saying, well, hey, honey, that's okay. You just head on over to my office and I'll be over there in a second. And so I remember like wolfing down, you know, the rest of breakfast, and dropping the dishes in the sink and coming in and closing the door and just walking around and sitting down right here and just saying, well, hey, babe, what's going on, which is how I usually start all of their conversations. And then pretty quickly I realized something was different. His mannerisms, his facial expressions seemed different than the week before. And I think the reason that I really recognized this was my body reacted. First, my heart rates started to pounds. I remember thinking that I could hear my pulse in my ears, and I thought, I don't think my heart sounds like this when I'm running, you know. And then I felt like somebody took a cup of something warm and like poured it on top of my head, like it was running down my body. And I remember even saying to myself, like kind of steadying myself at the desk and saying to myself, Molly, don't faint. He was looking around the room, eyes kind of darting in different places. He seemed very nervous, which was nothing like the way he had appeared the week before. And then he started to ask me a series of questions that obviously spiked my level of concern. He started asking if, then questions, if I do this, what are you going to do? They were terrifying, and I remember thinking, play dumb, and so I remember saying, well, honey, I don't know what I would do, but why would you do that? And frantically I start thinking about what my options are because in that moment, I just had this thought, and I think the Lord gave it to me. It was he's got a gun. And then I start I remember praying. I remember saying, Lord, if there's anything separating you from me, take it away, because if this is it, if I'm going to die today in my office, you know, in this tress skirt I don't like the day before I turned forty, I want to know where I'm going. I want to know I'm okay. I remember saying, take care of my boys and help me be brave. I mean, it was a thirty second prayer probably, And then I start trying to focus on what he is saying to me, and all the while I'm thinking about the teachers who were right across the hall. I remember thinking about about the number of students they had. I knew their backs would be to the door, and for some reason in my mind, I thought that's where he'll go first. There'll be his first victims. And it dawns on me the only thing standing between him and them is me, and I remember thinking, you got to do everything you can, like you got to do everything you can. So I start really listening to what he's saying. He would go back to rehash some of the things that he had been so concerned about the week before. All the while I am frantically trying to think about what I will do if I can get this gun. Can I just pull the trigger and unload it into the ceiling? I remember, you know, but I remember looking up here and thinking, we have a drop ceiling. It's a steel roof. This building was built in nineteen seventy eight, and I had read a lot. I knew what the trajectory of bullets would do inside of a cinder block room, and I remember thinking that that's not going to work. And I had this thought, you're going to talk your way out of this. And I remember thinking, you know, for a kid who spent a whole lot of time in trouble in elementary school because I just couldn't seem to stop talking, yet had gotten a job where I talked all day, it worked out great for me, right, And so I just remember thinking, you don't have to talk yourway eye this. At one point in the conversation, he unzips his jacket and he sticked his he stuck his hand inside of it, and I knew, I knew what it was. And he started tapping on something. And I say this all the time when I tell our story. Something rose up in me and I remember thinking, not my school, not my school. This will not happen here. This will not I will kill you or you will kill me. But you're not leaving that room. And I'll tell you I had never thought about harming anybody. I mean, I'm a counselor what we want to help people. That's not ingrained in our in our DNA. But in that moment, if it was going to be him or those kids, or him or one of those staff members, or him or me, it was going to be him. There was no way he was going to leave this room. I didn't know what I would have to do. I remember thinking at one point, thank you Lord. You know you've had me training all these months for a marathon that I'm supposed to run in three weeks. I'm of the best physical shape of my life. If this becomes physical, I think I have a chance that when you started to tap on that box, I remember thinking I had to take the bait, and for some reason that made me furious, and so I looked at him and I just said, slightly sarcastically, I said, what are you tapping on? And I remember he kind of cocked his head to one side and he was like a pencil box. And I thought, no, it's not I've never sent in an eighth grade with a pencil box. But something again in me said, don't push Molly, and so we just kept talking and then at one point he looks at me and he says, Miss Hudgens, I've got something to tell you that I bet nobody's ever told you before. And I knew what he was going to say, but I said, well, honey, I don't know. I've been doing this job for a long time. My doubt there's anything you can tell me I haven't heard before. And he said, I bet nobody's ever told you they had a loaded gun. And again, I said the first thing that came into my head, and I think the Lord gave me this. I said, well, no, honey, they haven't, but you probably wouldn't be the first person to have one here. And he unzipped his jacket the rest of the way and he pulled out the gun. He laid it right here on the desk in front of me, with the base of the gun facing away from me. I remember reading the word millennium upside down and backwards and frantically trying to figure out I thought it was a nine millimeter. Later we would learn that it was a forty five. That only matters in terms of the number of bullets the gun can hold, and I knew that. Then he unzipped his jacket and he reached into the outside pocket and he pulled out an additional magazine of ammunition, and he stood it up right beside the gun on my desk, and I start frantically trying to count the bullets that you can vaguely see through the side of the magazine. And then he pulls out a holster that we would later learn he had used to attach the additional magazine to his ankle. And so he lays all these things on the desk in front of me, and it strikes me, you know, I'm like a three foot target. And so I remember standing up and leaning out, and I put my hands on like on the gun, and I said, honey, why don't we talk about what's going on, and or why don't you want me take these and then we can talk about what's going on? And he yanked it all away. He shoved the magazine and the holster back into his outer pocket where they had been to begin with, and he held a gun in his left hand, pointed down with the floor. And so I am already like sort of halfway standing here because I've leaned over to touch the gun. So I just stood up the rest of the way and I put my hands up, and all I start being flooded in my mind with all these things I've learned. Is this a hostage or a non hostage situation? You know, if it's a hostage situation, the goal is to lower their expectations until eventually the hostage taker realizes their best they're not probably going to get what they want, and their best option is to leave that situation. If it's a non hostage situation, the person already has what they want and you're not trying to lower expectations. You're trying to lower their emotions. So I remember thinking to myself, You've got a lower his emotion, Stay calm, let him feel as if he has power. So I walk around the chair that sits at the end of my desk, and I got down on my knees and I think I heard that, get on your knees, and I realize now, you know, I was trying to put myself in a subservient position because now I am physically lower than him, even in height. And I remember hearing he's right handed. I knew he had taken the gun out with his right hand, but he now had it in his left. So I put my left hand on his right shoulder, just like a like to comfort him. And then I just reached over with my right hand and I interlaced the fingers of my right hand with his right hand, and I remember thinking, well, if you're gonna shoot me, you're gonna have to do it with your non a dominant hand. And I just started talking. I couldn't believe this was happening. You know you asked earlier about that. Did you ever think something like this will happen? No? But at the same time, I remember thinking a couple times, you're prepared for this than anybody else in this building. I work with some amazing educators who are very intellectual people, but I knew that none of them had researched this study this, so in my mind, I thought this was the perfect place if he was going to come here. I tried to start fully engaging him in conversation, and not too far into that conversation, the worst case scenario happens when I start to hear noises in the hallway and I realized the kids are changing classes. I can hear the toilets start to flush in the girl's restaurant right here behind me. You can hear out in the hallway the locker doors are slamming. The kids are talking there, yelling to each other. And then I thought, get ready, because here come the teachers. I could see them out of my peripheral vision, passing the glass pane in my door. At one point Glenn would come and stand there and look in, and I wouldn't make eye contact with him because I was afraid if I did, he would realize something was not right and he would come in. He stood there for probably I don't know, twenty seconds maybe, and then he left, and later I asked him, I said, listen, I'm so glad you didn't come in. You weren't supposed to, But what kept you from that? And he said, well, Molly, I looked in there, and you were down on your knees, and I thought, well, lord, she's praying with him. She's gonna be in trouble. But whatever. He came back to his office.

You don't getting any trouble in Tennessee, Yeah, Praig with me?

You don't getting any trouble in Tennessee, Yeah, Praig with me?

I hope not. But I knew I had seven minutes. Seven minutes they were going to be in the hallways, and I tried to engage him as much in conversation as I could. I did not want him to realize how close in proximity he now was to victims or potential victims. And so as the sound started to diminish in the hallway, I remember feeling this sense of like, their back in there, back in you know, they're back in classes. And we talked some more. He realized that he what he had done was already a felony. You know, bringing a loaded firearm or any firearm on a school campus is obviously against the law. He knew that he he had all these concerns about things, but it dawned on me that this was an even more critical situation than I first realized. When he explained to me that if he did not kill people here at school, that someone was going to kill his family. And in that moment, I, you know, I remember like almost inhaling sharply and thinking, this is a psychosis. What you know, what you were, what you were seeing on Friday that was concerning to you, probably delusions, what you're seeing right now, hallucinations, like all of that began to piece itself together. And that's when I remember saying the prayer, Lord, help me, don't get help me, do not get lost in this. And so I started thinking, Okay, Molly, what would you actually do if you really thought that there was, truly there was a kid on campus whose family was in danger? What would you do? And I thought you'd reach out to law enforcement. And so I remember telling him, you know, we've got to get someone to your home to protect your family. And I remember this look on his face that was like, she believes me. She believes me. So I decided to work from that approach. I would love to say that I had this beautiful strategy. In hindsight, I think it was a beautiful strategy, but it was not of my creation. I know that for sure. It was like I played the best mental chess match of my life and I don't even know how to play chess, but I was working through everything that he would present. We talked for a long time. It starts to dawn on me that I cannot believe somebody has not come into this office. Our teachers were fairly accustomed to understanding that if the door to this office is closed, they know not to come in. I'm either a meeting with the student, I'm on the phone, or there's something going on that I need a private setting. But I still was worried. Kids were so us to turn in your bed of fees that day. It was the last day, and I kept thinking, somebody's going to come in. And so I looked at him and I said, honey, listen, I don't know what it is, but I know that God's got a plan for your life. And He's stiffened in his seat, and he looked down at me, and I remember he said, Miss Hudgens, do you believe in God? And I thought, oh, Molly, why did you say that. It's like my heart just dropped into my stomach. And then I just thought, well, if this is it, you know, I thought about Peter, and I thought that this is it. I'm not going to die denying the Lord. And I was terrified, and I said again, first thing that came to me. I said, well, honey, I do I do believe in God, but I feel like you don't. You know, is there a reason that you don't? And he said, miss Hugeons, do you know how many times I've asked for help and nobody's ever helped me? And I said, well, what do you think this is? I said, you know, maybe God wasn't telling you no. Maybe he was just telling you to wait for today. And I said, listen, I don't I don't know what we're going to do, but I promise you two things. One I will not leave you, and two what we're going to figure it out? And he started asking me all these questions about God, and I remember thinking how unusual that was, because of separation in church of church and state that my faith is not something I can go about and prophesy hear at work, you know, but if kids ask you questions about anything in a private study, you can certainly tell them what you believe or what you feel. And so I did my best to answer all of his questions, feeling inept because I didn't know the answers to some of them. But I remember in that moment just having this thought, pray with him, what else do I have? It was like the first time in my whole life that I really really had to put my faith where my fear was. And so I just looked at him and I said, listen, I've got an idea. And I don't know what you think about this, but how would you feel if maybe we prayed about it? You know, you've asked me a lot of questions about God. You know, maybe we could just pray about it and ask for some direction as to what we should do. And I really thought that he would say, you know, I don't I don't really want to do that, or I'm not comfortable doing that. But he didn't. He said, I think that would be okay. And there on my knees holding the hand of this child.

I hope not. But I knew I had seven minutes. Seven minutes they were going to be in the hallways, and I tried to engage him as much in conversation as I could. I did not want him to realize how close in proximity he now was to victims or potential victims. And so as the sound started to diminish in the hallway, I remember feeling this sense of like, their back in there, back in you know, they're back in classes. And we talked some more. He realized that he what he had done was already a felony. You know, bringing a loaded firearm or any firearm on a school campus is obviously against the law. He knew that he he had all these concerns about things, but it dawned on me that this was an even more critical situation than I first realized. When he explained to me that if he did not kill people here at school, that someone was going to kill his family. And in that moment, I, you know, I remember like almost inhaling sharply and thinking, this is a psychosis. What you know, what you were, what you were seeing on Friday that was concerning to you, probably delusions, what you're seeing right now, hallucinations, like all of that began to piece itself together. And that's when I remember saying the prayer, Lord, help me, don't get help me, do not get lost in this. And so I started thinking, Okay, Molly, what would you actually do if you really thought that there was, truly there was a kid on campus whose family was in danger? What would you do? And I thought you'd reach out to law enforcement. And so I remember telling him, you know, we've got to get someone to your home to protect your family. And I remember this look on his face that was like, she believes me. She believes me. So I decided to work from that approach. I would love to say that I had this beautiful strategy. In hindsight, I think it was a beautiful strategy, but it was not of my creation. I know that for sure. It was like I played the best mental chess match of my life and I don't even know how to play chess, but I was working through everything that he would present. We talked for a long time. It starts to dawn on me that I cannot believe somebody has not come into this office. Our teachers were fairly accustomed to understanding that if the door to this office is closed, they know not to come in. I'm either a meeting with the student, I'm on the phone, or there's something going on that I need a private setting. But I still was worried. Kids were so us to turn in your bed of fees that day. It was the last day, and I kept thinking, somebody's going to come in. And so I looked at him and I said, honey, listen, I don't know what it is, but I know that God's got a plan for your life. And He's stiffened in his seat, and he looked down at me, and I remember he said, Miss Hudgens, do you believe in God? And I thought, oh, Molly, why did you say that. It's like my heart just dropped into my stomach. And then I just thought, well, if this is it, you know, I thought about Peter, and I thought that this is it. I'm not going to die denying the Lord. And I was terrified, and I said again, first thing that came to me. I said, well, honey, I do I do believe in God, but I feel like you don't. You know, is there a reason that you don't? And he said, miss Hugeons, do you know how many times I've asked for help and nobody's ever helped me? And I said, well, what do you think this is? I said, you know, maybe God wasn't telling you no. Maybe he was just telling you to wait for today. And I said, listen, I don't I don't know what we're going to do, but I promise you two things. One I will not leave you, and two what we're going to figure it out? And he started asking me all these questions about God, and I remember thinking how unusual that was, because of separation in church of church and state that my faith is not something I can go about and prophesy hear at work, you know, but if kids ask you questions about anything in a private study, you can certainly tell them what you believe or what you feel. And so I did my best to answer all of his questions, feeling inept because I didn't know the answers to some of them. But I remember in that moment just having this thought, pray with him, what else do I have? It was like the first time in my whole life that I really really had to put my faith where my fear was. And so I just looked at him and I said, listen, I've got an idea. And I don't know what you think about this, but how would you feel if maybe we prayed about it? You know, you've asked me a lot of questions about God. You know, maybe we could just pray about it and ask for some direction as to what we should do. And I really thought that he would say, you know, I don't I don't really want to do that, or I'm not comfortable doing that. But he didn't. He said, I think that would be okay. And there on my knees holding the hand of this child.

You've been on your knees holding his hand this entire time.

You've been on your knees holding his hand this entire time.

Yeah, this is probably I would say, maybe forty five fifty minutes in this would this what would last ninety minutes before it would end? And so holding his hand, I prayed the most heartfelt prayer of my life. The whole time I prayed his eyes were closed. I kept mine open because I was afraid not to. I was crying. He was too. I remember thanking God for everything I knew about him that I had learned, you know, the Friday before, when I'd been listening and during the prayer, I remember feeling like this pressure at my back. I thought it was just because I had been in this position on my knees for so long, But at that moment, I just remember praying, Lord, if there is anything, that there is any negative entity affecting this situation, remove it from the equation. I felt like I was in a battle, a spiritual battle, something I had never experienced before, and I was scared. But I was going to fight, not just for the kids, not just for the staff, not even just for me, but for him. See what I knew this whole time is that most people who commit mass murder before they are homicidal, they are suicidal. Their intention in most cases is to not survive their incident. Many of them are hoping their lives will be taken by law enforcement and they won't have to do it themselves. But I did not want to lose him either, and so at one point in the prayer, he raises the gun up, and I am thinking that he's gonna shoot himself. And I remember being terrified and just thinking, what are you going to do, and then thinking are you just You're just gonna sit here, Molly, You're just gonna watch this happen, you know? Can you live with that? And I knew I couldn't, And so I let go of his shoulder and I reached out with my left hand and I still, I don't still know what I was gonna do. I guess I maybe was just going to try to push the gun down. I don't know. But he raised the gun all the way up over his head and with his pointer fingers on the trigger, he scratched the top of his head with his middle finger, and I remember thinking that is not funny, but like, at the same time, it was. It was like in the middle of this, you know, I teach English, right, the climax, the point of greatest emotion in height whatever, It's like, God gave me this drop of humor just to remind me, like you were still in this, you are not alone. This is a good fight, and you're in it. And so he raised, you know, lowered the gun, and I remember when I finished the prayer. He seen calmer. I had asked him several times through the course of this about giving me the gun, and every time he would say, Missagens, I want to give it to you, but I just can't. And so the prayer ended, and it was like this moment of just kind of what's next. You know, we are sweating profusely. It's still sitting here. If I really think about it, I can smell it, like I'm just adrenaline and all that that's released in a moment like this. And I had been praying, like, Lord, I need some kind of opening. And I remember that he looked and I had a medal hanging up on the wall right up here that was from a five K and he just said, I forgot that you like to run. And we started talking about running, and I just thought, here's your opening. And I said, I said, yea, honey. I said, you know, I told you guys yesterday and classroom guidance, I'm training for that marathon and I had to run ten miles this morning. I said that, you know, really rigs havoc on the knees. And he wanted me to go back and sit at my desk he thought I would be more comfortable, and I just said, I can't do that. I can't leave where I am. I'm going to stay right here, no matter how much my knees hurt until you until you give me that gun. And he said, well, I think maybe I want to give it to you. And then I had this thought, if he gives that weapon to me, then he's going to feel like he's giving up his family. And so I looked at him and I said, well, listen, why don't you let me take it and then you don't have to give it to me. And he said, okay, I think that'd be okay, and he leaned over and put the safety on, and I remember winging over him and taking the gun, and I just put my arms around there and we just hugged each other, me on my knees and him in his chair, and I'm patting him with one hand, and I remember telling him how much I loved him, how proud of him I was. I remember saying, you know, the right thing is never easy, but it's still the right thing. And the whole time I am holding what I now know is a fully loaded gun, just because of the heaviness of it, and we stayed like that for a long time. I remember watching the clock. I still have it on the wall back there. An elementary teacher told me one time, if the kid ever hugs you, don't let go until they do. And I'll tell you I do that with everybody. If somebody hugs me, I never let go until they do. They must need it, and so we stayed that way for a long time. I remember during that just thinking, just hold him like he's yours, Molly, just hold him like he's yours. I had two boys, so I understood that. And finally when he let go, I stood up. I remember, like the blood my legs like ate horribly, like I guess all the circulation, the blood running back through my legs, and I remember thinking, though, you've never seen or read about a school shooter who only has one weapon, and so it was my assumption that there were more, and so I said to him, why don't you give me all of it? And I was hoping if there were other weapons he would give me those as well, but he gave me I already had the gun, and so he gave me the magazine and the holster. I walked back around my desk right here and in the corner. I had two filing cabinets, and I wore the key to one of them around my neck on my lanyard. I still do, actually don't have the filing cabinet, but I still have the key. And I remember going up and unlocking the drawer and like pulling it out and making a dent in my purse and thinking, I can't believe I'm making a dent in my purse to put a gun, but then putting in there and closing the drawer and locking it, and like the key falling back around my neck and literally thinking that's one way. And so I walked back around and sat beside him because there was another chair adjacent to his, and we just started talking. We probably talked for fifteen more minutes. He wanted to know what I was going to do. He wanted to know what was going to happen to him. I couldn't answer any of those questions, so I stayed on the path that I had taken earlier with we have to protect his family. And I said to him, I said, honey, listen, I have got this friend who works in law enforcements, and I think he can help us. His name is Chris, And I said, wouldn't be okay with you if I called him? And he said, yes, ma'am, I think that would be okay. And so what he didn't know was that Chris was the first name of our student resource officer. At the time, we had one SRO that covered four schools in our county, so we only had three county wide. I knew there was only a twenty five percent chance that Chris would be here, but I called him, and I'll never forget when he answered the phone because I was so relieved, and I said, you know, hey, it's Mollie. Is there any chance that you're at the middle school today? And he said, well, I actually i am, but I'm in the conference room. I'm meeting with some parents. Can I call you back in a few minutes. And I said, well, this is kind of urgent, but because the whole time, the child is sitting across from me looking at me, and I am terrified he is going to jump up and bolt out the door. And so I said, yes, that'll be okay, but if you'll just come down as quickly as you can. And so as soon as we hung up the phone, I realized that nothing in my voice. Nothing about the words I'd chosen would have been any indicator to Chris on the other end of the line that this was an emergency, although I was hoping he would read into something. And so I looked at the child and I said, Honey, would it be okay with you if I sent a text message to my husband to let him know that Bradley has baseball practice after school today. That was our oldest child. And he said, well yeah, And so I sent a text message to Chris and it said I've just taken a loaded gun off of a child in my office. He doesn't know that I've contacted you. It's locked in a drawer, Please come down quickly. And I remember watching the screen fade to black and just hoping it went through. You know, old building still roof allows for terrible cell signal, And so I remember I even got on our student management system and said, honey, do you have any missing assignments? And he looked at me like I've lost my mind? And I did. I printed him off, went through everything the kid was missing in language arts, math siens and social studies, just trying to buy some time. And at the end of that he said missagings. I think, I'm I think I'm just going to go back to class, and I said, no, let me, let me try one more time. So this time I made the decision to call our assistant principle. I knew that I could have a conversation on my end that would make absolutely no sense on her end, and that she would get somebody she would know. So thing was not right. And so when I called her office, Chris, the SRO answered her phone and I said, hey, it's Mollie. I said, you know, I know you're working on something earlier. Can you come on down now? And he said, well, we've actually had to move into vice the vice principal's office in order to review some bus footage from the incident. And I can tell he's a little frustrated, because you know, he is hard at work here trying to investigate a situation. And I continue to interrupt, So I said, well, listen, can you check your messages because I sent you an email or a text or something. Can you see if you got that. I'm having trouble getting those out today. And he he looks at his phone and he says, Molly, I don't I don't have anything from you, and then he said, well, actually I just got a text message, and he read the first line of it and he said, I want you to stay on the phone as if we're still having a conversation. And I'm on my way, and I remember seeing him up here, at his face coming through that glass pane, and just thinking, you're not alone, which I hadn't been alone, you know, but now it was like I had a person with me. And Chris came in and conducted the most gracious and kind interview. The child told him the same story he told me, and then he looked at Chris and he said, I went to Miss Hudgins because I thought she was the only person that could talk me out of this. And I remember thinking, if I live to be one hundred years old, I will never get a compliment any greater than that one. So I was allowed to stay with him the whole time. I wanted to leave school with him, but Chris said to me, Molly, your job is done, and so I stayed. I wrote a statement for the police Central Office came they wanted me to go home. They felt like I should be able to take the day off or take a couple of days and I remember saying, well, who's going to do bus duty if I'm not here? Like, just stay in the course, right, And I did. I stayed all day, I did bus study, I went to baseball practice. It was Wednesday night, and I went to church and came back the next morning, got up in around eight miles, slept like a baby, got to hear the next morning, and remember thinking, I'm so glad the flag is not at high staff. And it wasn't until I got to my door and I was kind of shaky, like trying to put the key in that I remember saying, Oh, good grief, Molly, it's in office going in. It would take me a while to realize that most people who experience a traumatic event don't normally return to the city of the crime. And you know, work for seven or eight hours, and then I wouldn't see him again for a month.