You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.

You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.

Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on Hello, and welcome to Mamma Mia out Loud and to our Friday show.

Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on Hello, and welcome to Mamma Mia out Loud and to our Friday show.

You know what happens on Friday.

You know what happens on Friday.

We let go of the news cycle and we just take a deep breath in and then we just go.

We let go of the news cycle and we just take a deep breath in and then we just go.

Yes, we do a bit of We were talking about whim Hoff. He'd want us to do what box breathing.

Yes, we do a bit of We were talking about whim Hoff. He'd want us to do what box breathing.

And in through one nostril and out through that. You wouldn't be able to hear that out louder, So that's fine.

And in through one nostril and out through that. You wouldn't be able to hear that out louder, So that's fine.

Maybe we are doing that.

Maybe we are doing that.

Maybe It's Friday, the eighteenth of October, and my name is Holly Wayne Wright.

Maybe It's Friday, the eighteenth of October, and my name is Holly Wayne Wright.

I'm Jesse Stevens and I'm in Burnham.

I'm Jesse Stevens and I'm in Burnham.

You can normally hear me on our daily entertainment podcast The Spill. I'm filling in for mea.

You can normally hear me on our daily entertainment podcast The Spill. I'm filling in for mea.

Today and on the show in Defense of Marital Secrets? Does intimacy really have to go hand in hand with being a wide open book? Also, we have your weekend recommendations for you. I've got a book that blew my tiny mind. Jesse is pretending she watches other things. Than true crime docos, and wants to tell you about something British and scary. Who is It's not you my mother?

Today and on the show in Defense of Marital Secrets? Does intimacy really have to go hand in hand with being a wide open book? Also, we have your weekend recommendations for you. I've got a book that blew my tiny mind. Jesse is pretending she watches other things. Than true crime docos, and wants to tell you about something British and scary. Who is It's not you my mother?

Also what it's really.

Also what it's really.

Like to live without a phone, a man on a train and the truth about them sicky. It's best and worst of the week, But first, Jesse Stevens.

Like to live without a phone, a man on a train and the truth about them sicky. It's best and worst of the week, But first, Jesse Stevens.

In case you missed it. How you dream depends on where you're from and how old you are. Em you're in your twenties, so I'm going to assume you dream in TikTok in dancing sound bites where you're just mouthing. An article in The Washington Post looked at the differences between how we dream and did you know that if you grew up without a color television, so that would mean that you're in your seventies or something, then you're less likely to dream in color.

In case you missed it. How you dream depends on where you're from and how old you are. Em you're in your twenties, so I'm going to assume you dream in TikTok in dancing sound bites where you're just mouthing. An article in The Washington Post looked at the differences between how we dream and did you know that if you grew up without a color television, so that would mean that you're in your seventies or something, then you're less likely to dream in color.

I was gonna say fifties. I'm a bit of excuse me.

I was gonna say fifties. I'm a bit of excuse me.

It was once believed dreaming and color was associated with psychological issues, but that myth has now been dispelled. Younger people, based on a number of surveys, generally dream more in color, but this drops by about twenty percent by the age of sixty. Dream recall, including the level of detail is understood to decline with age without telling me what you dreamed about last night, because I do not care. Do you dream in color? Yeah?

It was once believed dreaming and color was associated with psychological issues, but that myth has now been dispelled. Younger people, based on a number of surveys, generally dream more in color, but this drops by about twenty percent by the age of sixty. Dream recall, including the level of detail is understood to decline with age without telling me what you dreamed about last night, because I do not care. Do you dream in color? Yeah?

I dream in color. So are we saying that when I get older, I'll stop dreaming in color, like my ink runs out? Those are just the generations now.

I dream in color. So are we saying that when I get older, I'll stop dreaming in color, like my ink runs out? Those are just the generations now.

No, I believe that as you get older, well you'll recall declines. But yeah, it's not as kind of vivid. The color is as vivid.

No, I believe that as you get older, well you'll recall declines. But yeah, it's not as kind of vivid. The color is as vivid.

No, I still dream in color, so that means I'm very youthful and young.

No, I still dream in color, so that means I'm very youthful and young.

And do you dream in faces? Like is it like a movie? What does it look like?

And do you dream in faces? Like is it like a movie? What does it look like?

Yeah, it's like I'm living my life. So my worst dream ever is when I dream like that I'm coming to work, because then I wake up and I still have to go to work, so I feel that I've done it twice. I do have this reoccurring dream that I thought everyone got until I started talking about it and people are like, that's weird. Where it's like if I go to sleep without going to the bathroom before going to sleep and I need to start going to the bathroom, I'll dream about going to a toilet, but my dream will like stop me from actually entering the cubicle because it doesn't want me to pee in the bed. And then I suddenly wake up and I'm like, oh my god, I need to go a bathroom.

Yeah, it's like I'm living my life. So my worst dream ever is when I dream like that I'm coming to work, because then I wake up and I still have to go to work, so I feel that I've done it twice. I do have this reoccurring dream that I thought everyone got until I started talking about it and people are like, that's weird. Where it's like if I go to sleep without going to the bathroom before going to sleep and I need to start going to the bathroom, I'll dream about going to a toilet, but my dream will like stop me from actually entering the cubicle because it doesn't want me to pee in the bed. And then I suddenly wake up and I'm like, oh my god, I need to go a bathroom.

Oh no, I don't have those. I just get woken up like all the time by needing to pee.

Oh no, I don't have those. I just get woken up like all the time by needing to pee.

So you're subconscious is saying go, it's protecting me. Yeah, And it's like making all these locks on the bathroom door. I can't get to I can't remember.

So you're subconscious is saying go, it's protecting me. Yeah, And it's like making all these locks on the bathroom door. I can't get to I can't remember.

I'm trying to think if I dream in color, I must dream in color, right, because I'm not that old. But also I don't know. I always remember the vibe of the dream rather than the visuals.

I'm trying to think if I dream in color, I must dream in color, right, because I'm not that old. But also I don't know. I always remember the vibe of the dream rather than the visuals.

So do you mean the vibe?

So do you mean the vibe?

Was it scary?

Was it scary?

Was it happy?

Was it happy?

Was it good?

Was it good?

Did I like it?

Did I like it?

Was it making me anxious?

Was it making me anxious?

So that's what a lot of research on dreams is said that the thing that sticks with you about dreams often isn't the imagery but the feeling. You know, you wake up with a bad feeling some days and then you're like, oh, I had this terrible dream. Sometimes I put put together the plot. But I think I've read that dreams are actually just your brain throwing you a bunch of random images from your day, and then the way the brain works is that it has to make a coherent story, so then you try and put something together. But I often just remember the plot. I don't think I dream in images or anything. Really, I'm definitely not seeing it like a movie.

So that's what a lot of research on dreams is said that the thing that sticks with you about dreams often isn't the imagery but the feeling. You know, you wake up with a bad feeling some days and then you're like, oh, I had this terrible dream. Sometimes I put put together the plot. But I think I've read that dreams are actually just your brain throwing you a bunch of random images from your day, and then the way the brain works is that it has to make a coherent story, so then you try and put something together. But I often just remember the plot. I don't think I dream in images or anything. Really, I'm definitely not seeing it like a movie.

And you know, people dream in the language they're speaking and stuff like that, right, because our head of content was telling us, because she lives in a bilingual house, her little boys still dream in Swedish.

And you know, people dream in the language they're speaking and stuff like that, right, because our head of content was telling us, because she lives in a bilingual house, her little boys still dream in Swedish.

Which because they language talk. She was saying, they actually sleep talk in Swedish, which.

Which because they language talk. She was saying, they actually sleep talk in Swedish, which.

Is the language their dad speaks to them, and that they were immersed in when they were tiny and she was pregnant with me.

Is the language their dad speaks to them, and that they were immersed in when they were tiny and she was pregnant with me.

In your dreams, does everyone have a British accent?

In your dreams, does everyone have a British accent?

It's a very good question. You have to pay more attention next time I'm dreaming. When I was on holiday, you know how when he's sleeping a stranger, I don't worry. I'm not going to tell you my dreams. I agree with you, Jesse boring. But when I was on holiday, you know, when he's sleeping in strange bed, I had a really scary dream, like a nightmare, like a kid, and I woke up just like but even now I couldn't tell you was it color? Was it in English?

It's a very good question. You have to pay more attention next time I'm dreaming. When I was on holiday, you know how when he's sleeping a stranger, I don't worry. I'm not going to tell you my dreams. I agree with you, Jesse boring. But when I was on holiday, you know, when he's sleeping in strange bed, I had a really scary dream, like a nightmare, like a kid, and I woke up just like but even now I couldn't tell you was it color? Was it in English?

Was it in Mancuni? And I don't know.

Was it in Mancuni? And I don't know.

The Atlantic posted an article titled in Defense of Marital Secrets. It was based off an idea from Lauren Elkins's book called Scaffolding, which suggests that you actually shouldn't tell your partner everything and that total honesty can only take a relationship so far.

The Atlantic posted an article titled in Defense of Marital Secrets. It was based off an idea from Lauren Elkins's book called Scaffolding, which suggests that you actually shouldn't tell your partner everything and that total honesty can only take a relationship so far.

This completely blew.

This completely blew.

My mind because I've not been in a relationship, and I thought the whole point of being in a relationship is that you finally have someone to tell everything too.

My mind because I've not been in a relationship, and I thought the whole point of being in a relationship is that you finally have someone to tell everything too.

I mean, you know, when you say you haven't been in a relationship, what's your longest relationship?

I mean, you know, when you say you haven't been in a relationship, what's your longest relationship?

Probably like a year in a bit, that's a.

Probably like a year in a bit, that's a.

Relationship, Yeah, but like it's one that I want to forget about it. You don't call it like you haven't lived with someone or that kind of thing. So you've dated people, but not for longer than that.

Relationship, Yeah, but like it's one that I want to forget about it. You don't call it like you haven't lived with someone or that kind of thing. So you've dated people, but not for longer than that.

Yeah, I've never been with someone where I was like, this is my person?

Yeah, I've never been with someone where I was like, this is my person?

Right?

Right?

Have you been in love? Yes?

Have you been in love? Yes?

And did you feel like that should come with no secrets?

And did you feel like that should come with no secrets?

No? No, I think like when you live with someone, I think it's the twenty four seven, like, once you spend twenty four seven with someone, that's when I feel like I believed when someone's meant to know everything about you.

No? No, I think like when you live with someone, I think it's the twenty four seven, like, once you spend twenty four seven with someone, that's when I feel like I believed when someone's meant to know everything about you.

And what you're speaking to is exactly the myth. I think we're fed from childhood because I thought exactly the same thing. I have a twin, so I have a built in best friend, but I definitely had this sense that one day there would be someone who really knew me inside and out, they knew everything about me, and I would have this best friend where I was porous, and I guess this is like some sort of fairy tale thing. Perhaps we learned through movies and books and stuff that someone will complete you and then you'll live with them and there'll never be any secret and they'll be total intimacy. But this thing happens where you add in other factors like sex, like money, like kids, like in laws, and suddenly, in fact, friendships are a lot simpler because with my best friends, we're not sharing money, and we're not navigating a sex life, and we're not deciding how to copare and a child. So in fact, to have a loving partnership, I've found that sometimes those secrets are necessary. Do you think the same thing, Holly.

And what you're speaking to is exactly the myth. I think we're fed from childhood because I thought exactly the same thing. I have a twin, so I have a built in best friend, but I definitely had this sense that one day there would be someone who really knew me inside and out, they knew everything about me, and I would have this best friend where I was porous, and I guess this is like some sort of fairy tale thing. Perhaps we learned through movies and books and stuff that someone will complete you and then you'll live with them and there'll never be any secret and they'll be total intimacy. But this thing happens where you add in other factors like sex, like money, like kids, like in laws, and suddenly, in fact, friendships are a lot simpler because with my best friends, we're not sharing money, and we're not navigating a sex life, and we're not deciding how to copare and a child. So in fact, to have a loving partnership, I've found that sometimes those secrets are necessary. Do you think the same thing, Holly.

Well, obviously people.

Well, obviously people.

Doesn't even know where she lives. You know, you know, I like it. I like my privacy.

Doesn't even know where she lives. You know, you know, I like it. I like my privacy.

I might live with three other people, and presd and I have been together twenty years private person. When I read this headline, I loved it in defense of marital secrets, because I think as relationships progress, you do need to bits of yourself. And one of the things that blew this open for me. We've talked about this on the show before, but Jesse has just read All Fours by Miranda july Sovian. It's a story about a woman in midlife who I mean, she's having a midlife crisis really. But one of the things in the first half of the book that she keeps saying about her relationship with her husband, which is all pretty ordinary relationship to be honest, is that one day they will be some kind of breakthrough where they truly know each other in any everything, and that they're like just two souls like bleeding together, and he will truly know her in every way and understand all her weirdness and eccentricities and her him, and they'll tell each other all their thoughts and all the weird things that you're scared to say out loud and all of those things right, and that doesn't happen. But it's interesting because I do think, as Jesse says, that's what we think, that's what romantic love has to be, but that actually probably as relationships progress, to stay successful and healthy, you need to keep bits of yourself, you know what I mean, You need to you and you're you. So we asked the out louders right about whether or not they think it's okay to keep secrets in their relationships, and they gave us some examples, but one of them that I really I like this because you've got to remember, if you're thinking about marital secrets, there's a difference, and a very important difference between a secret and a lie. Right in my opinion, and obviously i'm a relationship guru, an unmarried relationship guru. In my mon there should be a bright line about lying like not cool I mean white lies. I know that's a term that's very unpopular because all lies of deception, but I don't think it's a lie when somebody says how much was that shirt and you say I can't remember, I don't think.

I might live with three other people, and presd and I have been together twenty years private person. When I read this headline, I loved it in defense of marital secrets, because I think as relationships progress, you do need to bits of yourself. And one of the things that blew this open for me. We've talked about this on the show before, but Jesse has just read All Fours by Miranda july Sovian. It's a story about a woman in midlife who I mean, she's having a midlife crisis really. But one of the things in the first half of the book that she keeps saying about her relationship with her husband, which is all pretty ordinary relationship to be honest, is that one day they will be some kind of breakthrough where they truly know each other in any everything, and that they're like just two souls like bleeding together, and he will truly know her in every way and understand all her weirdness and eccentricities and her him, and they'll tell each other all their thoughts and all the weird things that you're scared to say out loud and all of those things right, and that doesn't happen. But it's interesting because I do think, as Jesse says, that's what we think, that's what romantic love has to be, but that actually probably as relationships progress, to stay successful and healthy, you need to keep bits of yourself, you know what I mean, You need to you and you're you. So we asked the out louders right about whether or not they think it's okay to keep secrets in their relationships, and they gave us some examples, but one of them that I really I like this because you've got to remember, if you're thinking about marital secrets, there's a difference, and a very important difference between a secret and a lie. Right in my opinion, and obviously i'm a relationship guru, an unmarried relationship guru. In my mon there should be a bright line about lying like not cool I mean white lies. I know that's a term that's very unpopular because all lies of deception, but I don't think it's a lie when somebody says how much was that shirt and you say I can't remember, I don't think.

That's See my parents have always had a rule where I think they both know what happens. My mum halves the amount because she knows he'll double it. Yeah, so that's how it works. It's like Dad will say how much did the new door cost? And she'll be like, m fifty dollars and he's like, it cost one hundred dollars. And that's just how they speak.

That's See my parents have always had a rule where I think they both know what happens. My mum halves the amount because she knows he'll double it. Yeah, so that's how it works. It's like Dad will say how much did the new door cost? And she'll be like, m fifty dollars and he's like, it cost one hundred dollars. And that's just how they speak.

Yeah, and so I think that that does you.

Yeah, and so I think that that does you.

But no, I don't think.

But no, I don't think.

That counts as a lie, right, I don't think that counts as a lie. Like a lie is different. If someone asks you something directly and you don't tell them, that's a lie, and that's a breach of trust. But not telling them everything, that's different. Right, And then let me quote you this out Louder quoted Outlander. The outlouders who have watched Outlander or read Outlander. That's the one about the very hot man in a kilt and some time traveling. That's all you need to know about that. But this out Louder said. One of the favorite lines about Outlander not going to do the accent because that would be offensive to Scott's everywhere is there are things I can't tell you, at least not yet. And I'll ask nothing of you that you can't give me. But what I would ask of you when you do tell me something, let it be the truth. And I promise you the same. We have nothing between us but respect, perhaps, and I think that respect has some room for secrets, but not for lies.

That counts as a lie, right, I don't think that counts as a lie. Like a lie is different. If someone asks you something directly and you don't tell them, that's a lie, and that's a breach of trust. But not telling them everything, that's different. Right, And then let me quote you this out Louder quoted Outlander. The outlouders who have watched Outlander or read Outlander. That's the one about the very hot man in a kilt and some time traveling. That's all you need to know about that. But this out Louder said. One of the favorite lines about Outlander not going to do the accent because that would be offensive to Scott's everywhere is there are things I can't tell you, at least not yet. And I'll ask nothing of you that you can't give me. But what I would ask of you when you do tell me something, let it be the truth. And I promise you the same. We have nothing between us but respect, perhaps, and I think that respect has some room for secrets, but not for lies.

Do you agree?

Do you agree?

And I'm like, yes, I agree. I now live my life by outlander.

And I'm like, yes, I agree. I now live my life by outlander.

Yes, yeah, I think that that's an important difference. One of my friends, this is one of my favorite secrets, is that she had booked a Plartes class that she was meant to go to and she rushed to get there and she missed it, like just was five ten minutes lights, so couldn't go. And then she was like, well, you know what, I'm hungry. I'm going to go get drived through. So she spent that hour sitting there just eighty McDonald's. And when she got home, he said, how the vallarates class? And she said, good, but is that a lie? That's a lie? It probably is, but to me harmless secret. That secret the type of thing you will tell all of your friends, but you just look at them and you're like, I still want you to love me.

Yes, yeah, I think that that's an important difference. One of my friends, this is one of my favorite secrets, is that she had booked a Plartes class that she was meant to go to and she rushed to get there and she missed it, like just was five ten minutes lights, so couldn't go. And then she was like, well, you know what, I'm hungry. I'm going to go get drived through. So she spent that hour sitting there just eighty McDonald's. And when she got home, he said, how the vallarates class? And she said, good, but is that a lie? That's a lie? It probably is, but to me harmless secret. That secret the type of thing you will tell all of your friends, but you just look at them and you're like, I still want you to love me.

Plisso what about this one. This is another out loud ast one. My husband and I have no secrets from the time we've been together, but we haven't disclosed all the details of our lives before that because honestly, neither of us really need to know the antics of each other in their twenties.

Plisso what about this one. This is another out loud ast one. My husband and I have no secrets from the time we've been together, but we haven't disclosed all the details of our lives before that because honestly, neither of us really need to know the antics of each other in their twenties.

Is that cool?

Is that cool?

I think so?

I think so?

No.

No.

In your mind, when you meet the one with capital T capital oh, you'll tell them everything ever happened to you, and they'll tell you everything that's ever happened to them.

In your mind, when you meet the one with capital T capital oh, you'll tell them everything ever happened to you, and they'll tell you everything that's ever happened to them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I picture us going like doing that. I love yous, Like we're in bed doing that, I love you and we're sitting up and we're like, now go and then you're just like a list every single thing about like your life, everything that no one else knows. And then he goes and I'm like, will this make it? Hopefully?

I picture us going like doing that. I love yous, Like we're in bed doing that, I love you and we're sitting up and we're like, now go and then you're just like a list every single thing about like your life, everything that no one else knows. And then he goes and I'm like, will this make it? Hopefully?

Okay, here's an example, right, this is this is one. So you've been in a relationship, and one thing that Luca and I said before we got married is, and we're very influenced by Esparrell, is just because you're married to someone, or just because you're in a long term monogamous relationship doesn't mean that every now and then you're gonna find someone else attractive, right, It's gonna be a little crushes and that's absolutely fine. And the other day we're talking about something, and something came up about someone that Luke thought was attractive, and he decided he would tell me that, and I thought that would best be kept to see. Yeah, was it a real.

Okay, here's an example, right, this is this is one. So you've been in a relationship, and one thing that Luca and I said before we got married is, and we're very influenced by Esparrell, is just because you're married to someone, or just because you're in a long term monogamous relationship doesn't mean that every now and then you're gonna find someone else attractive, right, It's gonna be a little crushes and that's absolutely fine. And the other day we're talking about something, and something came up about someone that Luke thought was attractive, and he decided he would tell me that, and I thought that would best be kept to see. Yeah, was it a real.

Person or a celebrity?

Person or a celebrity?

Oh, it was a real person.

Oh, it was a real person.

Yes.

Yes.

He just kind of went on about it a bit and I kept trying to cut him down.

He just kind of went on about it a bit and I kept trying to cut him down.

No.

No.

Yeah, but and then criticize them, and he was like, I don't really think that, And I just thought that's an inside thought.

Yeah, but and then criticize them, and he was like, I don't really think that, And I just thought that's an inside thought.

See this is interesting because my general philosophy about relationships is that blanket rules a bully it because we're all different, so we all know.

See this is interesting because my general philosophy about relationships is that blanket rules a bully it because we're all different, so we all know.

Any out louder knows that.

Any out louder knows that.

Jesse is a bit jealous, So Luca should have shut up about that.

Jesse is a bit jealous, So Luca should have shut up about that.

I reckon, when you have a crush, I don't think you need to tell your partner about it. No, I agreed.

I reckon, when you have a crush, I don't think you need to tell your partner about it. No, I agreed.

But there are some couples for whom that would be quite exciting, and they would tease each other about it and be like, next time you're enough, Oh you live her who you like? And they would have fun with it.

But there are some couples for whom that would be quite exciting, and they would tease each other about it and be like, next time you're enough, Oh you live her who you like? And they would have fun with it.

You're not that peronn't think that's fun, But do you secretly want to know?

You're not that peronn't think that's fun, But do you secretly want to know?

This is a complexity, is that Luca will never and has never lied to me, like he is the honest to a fault. Probably his greatest flaw is that he could be a little bit gentler with the truth. But him telling me that, also in terms of trust, I just went, I've got nothing to worry about because honestly, Luke will call me before he cheats, like he's not going to do something behind my back. So in that way there's the trust. But also there are some details, and I think this is also about you might be at a certain position in your relationship. There are things that in any relationship you find hard about each other, and I don't think sometimes trying to hide those is necessarily a bad thing. So even like Lucra and I have, I think it's a barefoot investor thing. The NQA account, which is the no questions asking acount, which is like we get a certain amount of money every month and we don't look at all. The other person wants if I want to go and spend my money at Mecca, and he thinks that that's not a good use of money, none of his business, and like, we don't have to be in each other's.

This is a complexity, is that Luca will never and has never lied to me, like he is the honest to a fault. Probably his greatest flaw is that he could be a little bit gentler with the truth. But him telling me that, also in terms of trust, I just went, I've got nothing to worry about because honestly, Luke will call me before he cheats, like he's not going to do something behind my back. So in that way there's the trust. But also there are some details, and I think this is also about you might be at a certain position in your relationship. There are things that in any relationship you find hard about each other, and I don't think sometimes trying to hide those is necessarily a bad thing. So even like Lucra and I have, I think it's a barefoot investor thing. The NQA account, which is the no questions asking acount, which is like we get a certain amount of money every month and we don't look at all. The other person wants if I want to go and spend my money at Mecca, and he thinks that that's not a good use of money, none of his business, and like, we don't have to be in each other's.

Pockets because with that, it's not the family finances exactly totally different.

Pockets because with that, it's not the family finances exactly totally different.

And I think that finance is like, if you're going to go and spend someone else's money or whatever, then that matters. But I think sparing like the person that you're with, of things that are going to stress them out or like I just unnecessary. I think that can be a kindness.

And I think that finance is like, if you're going to go and spend someone else's money or whatever, then that matters. But I think sparing like the person that you're with, of things that are going to stress them out or like I just unnecessary. I think that can be a kindness.

I have another test for you, Emma, you and your imaginary partner. What about other people's secrets? Because what a lot about Loud is said, there's a hierarchy of secrets, right, So what about a lot about Loud has said, I keep any secret that isn't really mine. So say your friend something about one of your mutual friends, or something is about someone in their family or your family who's told you something in confidence. Do you tell your partner in this idyllic version of complete honesty.

I have another test for you, Emma, you and your imaginary partner. What about other people's secrets? Because what a lot about Loud is said, there's a hierarchy of secrets, right, So what about a lot about Loud has said, I keep any secret that isn't really mine. So say your friend something about one of your mutual friends, or something is about someone in their family or your family who's told you something in confidence. Do you tell your partner in this idyllic version of complete honesty.

See, I thought it was a given. I thought everything I told my friends their partner would already like would know. I thought that came with the rules of your friend being in a relationship. So I've just been going like meeting people's partners going you probably know everything and they're like, who are you?

See, I thought it was a given. I thought everything I told my friends their partner would already like would know. I thought that came with the rules of your friend being in a relationship. So I've just been going like meeting people's partners going you probably know everything and they're like, who are you?

And I'm like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, girl. I have a strict because next time, as a friend.

And I'm like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, girl. I have a strict because next time, as a friend.

That makes me feel good that you're not telling a partner about I mean, I.

That makes me feel good that you're not telling a partner about I mean, I.

Might tell, like Brent, things about our mutual friends that aren't a big deal. But if my friend has said to me, please don't tell anyone, then I won't tell him really unless I mean, what if he asks, Well, I can't think of very many examples where he would. I mean, obviously, you sometimes get in sticky situations where you're friends with a couple, and that can be tricky when shit goes down, and I've lived through all that and you have to navigate that.

Might tell, like Brent, things about our mutual friends that aren't a big deal. But if my friend has said to me, please don't tell anyone, then I won't tell him really unless I mean, what if he asks, Well, I can't think of very many examples where he would. I mean, obviously, you sometimes get in sticky situations where you're friends with a couple, and that can be tricky when shit goes down, and I've lived through all that and you have to navigate that.

That's hard.

That's hard.

So there are things that you just wouldn't say because you don't want to put that person in a situation. But my loyalty remains with my friend who told me a secret, unless it's unless it's something that like would directly affect Brent's life, Like imagine for example, which wouldn't happen in my world. But like if they said, you'll never guess what, but Brent's about to get fired. Obviously, don't tell him, But broadly speaking, a secret that isn't about me or mine, I wouldn't ever tell him that.

So there are things that you just wouldn't say because you don't want to put that person in a situation. But my loyalty remains with my friend who told me a secret, unless it's unless it's something that like would directly affect Brent's life, Like imagine for example, which wouldn't happen in my world. But like if they said, you'll never guess what, but Brent's about to get fired. Obviously, don't tell him, But broadly speaking, a secret that isn't about me or mine, I wouldn't ever tell him that.

That makes me feel really good.

That makes me feel really good.

What kind of artsholes do you think your friends with a will all do?

What kind of artsholes do you think your friends with a will all do?

This is a great one from Karen and out Louder, who wishes there were more secrets in a relationship I've spent the last I don't know if this qualifies as a secret, but here you can tell me. I've spent the last twenty five years with my husband leaving very early for work, which left me with time to myself in the mornings. I still had the kids, but they were either asleep or busy getting ready for school. I used to take this time to pluck my chin hair, lip hair after a shower, lift my big boobs up under the fan to dry out, and spread my legs in front of the fan, also to dry out please a pimple or waxy under armed bikini line, and basically have me time while I.

This is a great one from Karen and out Louder, who wishes there were more secrets in a relationship I've spent the last I don't know if this qualifies as a secret, but here you can tell me. I've spent the last twenty five years with my husband leaving very early for work, which left me with time to myself in the mornings. I still had the kids, but they were either asleep or busy getting ready for school. I used to take this time to pluck my chin hair, lip hair after a shower, lift my big boobs up under the fan to dry out, and spread my legs in front of the fan, also to dry out please a pimple or waxy under armed bikini line, and basically have me time while I.

Got ready for work. Well, now he's partly retired.

Got ready for work. Well, now he's partly retired.

And his home all the time every morning. I don't like him knowing or seeing me dry out my big boobs under the fat I've kept him private, our whole married lives secret blown.

And his home all the time every morning. I don't like him knowing or seeing me dry out my big boobs under the fat I've kept him private, our whole married lives secret blown.

Oh I love that so much, Liza.

Oh I love that so much, Liza.

I feel like bathroom secrets are different though, Like whatever happens in the bathroom stays in the bathroom.

I feel like bathroom secrets are different though, Like whatever happens in the bathroom stays in the bathroom.

I agree. And there's even you know, if I'm at home with Luna for the day and look ast me about my day, omit a nap? Like if I went and had a nap when there are just certain things that make me sound a little bit shitter, and I'm like.

I agree. And there's even you know, if I'm at home with Luna for the day and look ast me about my day, omit a nap? Like if I went and had a nap when there are just certain things that make me sound a little bit shitter, and I'm like.

Well, you're like, well, this is the person I wanted to be today, so you're going to get that first try.

Well, you're like, well, this is the person I wanted to be today, so you're going to get that first try.

I slaved over the stove and I was actually nothing for that. Or like if I missed a deadline and I did something a bit, I wouldn't tell him that because I just not being the person to the deadline. I agree, So you just tell a little lie.

I slaved over the stove and I was actually nothing for that. Or like if I missed a deadline and I did something a bit, I wouldn't tell him that because I just not being the person to the deadline. I agree, So you just tell a little lie.

What about botox? So quite a few out louders say that the secret they keep from their partner is their Auntie Rinkle injections. Do we have any judgments about that?

What about botox? So quite a few out louders say that the secret they keep from their partner is their Auntie Rinkle injections. Do we have any judgments about that?

I would tell about the injections if I got injections only because I feel like if it was obvious, Because I feel like sometimes it's obvious with women that I feel like someone would be like, oh, I didn't know Emily got botox to my partner, and then he'd be like, what thoughts.

I would tell about the injections if I got injections only because I feel like if it was obvious, Because I feel like sometimes it's obvious with women that I feel like someone would be like, oh, I didn't know Emily got botox to my partner, and then he'd be like, what thoughts.

I have friends that wouldn't tell their partner just because they can't be bothered having the conversation because their partner's going to go. I think it looks beautiful without it, and it's like, it's not about you, in which case I kind of defend that. The question for me is does the secret erode trust? And if you're not looking them in the eye lying, then I don't think it necessarily does. And there are certain secrets that can make a marriage more loving because you know each other's soft spots, you know each other's the bits that you might just kind of dance around a little bit. And so a lot of women as well saying that they go to the hairdresser and they don't tell their partner how much their hair cost. I mean, you can probably check the bank statement, but I don't feel like that's a conversation that.

I have friends that wouldn't tell their partner just because they can't be bothered having the conversation because their partner's going to go. I think it looks beautiful without it, and it's like, it's not about you, in which case I kind of defend that. The question for me is does the secret erode trust? And if you're not looking them in the eye lying, then I don't think it necessarily does. And there are certain secrets that can make a marriage more loving because you know each other's soft spots, you know each other's the bits that you might just kind of dance around a little bit. And so a lot of women as well saying that they go to the hairdresser and they don't tell their partner how much their hair cost. I mean, you can probably check the bank statement, but I don't feel like that's a conversation that.

Needs to because it's definitely not the conversation these happened. We ask some of our Mamma Meer staff about secrets they would keep in relationships, and this is what they said.

Needs to because it's definitely not the conversation these happened. We ask some of our Mamma Meer staff about secrets they would keep in relationships, and this is what they said.

When it comes to keeping secrets.

When it comes to keeping secrets.

My partner knows nothing about what I spend, and I completely control the budget.

My partner knows nothing about what I spend, and I completely control the budget.

My partner and I have been together for eight years now, and for two of those years, I was a pretty heavy smoker, and I completely kept it from him and he had no clue. I felt terrible all the time we were living together and I was smoking in our backyard. The only reason why I kept it from him was because I knew he hated smoking and I didn't want him to lecture me, so I just kept it under wraps.

My partner and I have been together for eight years now, and for two of those years, I was a pretty heavy smoker, and I completely kept it from him and he had no clue. I felt terrible all the time we were living together and I was smoking in our backyard. The only reason why I kept it from him was because I knew he hated smoking and I didn't want him to lecture me, so I just kept it under wraps.

So very early on in our relationship, one of my partner's best friends told me that I was too good for my partner and then I should leave him, and that he thought I was punching and that my partner wasn't good enough for me. That person isn't in our life anymore. They stopped being friends, but I never told my partner because I thought it would upset him and I didn't agree. And here we are, twelve years, two kids later, a beautiful life, and they were clearly wrong. And I still think that I wouldn't tell my partner now because there's no point.

So very early on in our relationship, one of my partner's best friends told me that I was too good for my partner and then I should leave him, and that he thought I was punching and that my partner wasn't good enough for me. That person isn't in our life anymore. They stopped being friends, but I never told my partner because I thought it would upset him and I didn't agree. And here we are, twelve years, two kids later, a beautiful life, and they were clearly wrong. And I still think that I wouldn't tell my partner now because there's no point.

I think it's absolutely fine if someone fakes an orgasm in a marriage. You know, we're all busy, we're all tired, and you don't want anyone to feel bad like they're underperforming. So it's kind of an act of kindness if you just pretend Yeah, that was great, but really you just want to go to sleep.

I think it's absolutely fine if someone fakes an orgasm in a marriage. You know, we're all busy, we're all tired, and you don't want anyone to feel bad like they're underperforming. So it's kind of an act of kindness if you just pretend Yeah, that was great, but really you just want to go to sleep.

Love making.

Love making.

My husband gives how much my makeup and beauty products cost, and of.

My husband gives how much my makeup and beauty products cost, and of.

Course I say sure, darling whinny yeses, which is always completely wrong.

Course I say sure, darling whinny yeses, which is always completely wrong.

I don't keep a single secret from my partner sometimes actually he tells me that I should keep more secrets from him, and I don't need to tell him quite so much.

I don't keep a single secret from my partner sometimes actually he tells me that I should keep more secrets from him, and I don't need to tell him quite so much.

But I'm an open book.

But I'm an open book.

What was interesting to me about the ones from the MoMA Mere people is money. It's a big thing that comes up a lot, right, and whether or not you have to be honest about what you spend on one. And I think that's a big issue for you if you have had issues with money in the past. Yeah, sex is interesting. Yeah, faking orgasms, No one's faking orgasms in your perfect imagination.

What was interesting to me about the ones from the MoMA Mere people is money. It's a big thing that comes up a lot, right, and whether or not you have to be honest about what you spend on one. And I think that's a big issue for you if you have had issues with money in the past. Yeah, sex is interesting. Yeah, faking orgasms, No one's faking orgasms in your perfect imagination.

Imaginary relationship. I'm like, Okay, you can fake an orgasm if you're in a long term relationship. Don't fake an orgasm if you're just like short term or dating because you're doing every other woman in disservice.

Imaginary relationship. I'm like, Okay, you can fake an orgasm if you're in a long term relationship. Don't fake an orgasm if you're just like short term or dating because you're doing every other woman in disservice.

Yeah, I think you're right.

Yeah, I think you're right.

I mean, when they're set, this person is set, loose.

I mean, when they're set, this person is set, loose.

Back out and you're only fucking your selfie us you are.

Back out and you're only fucking your selfie us you are.

But the one that's probably the most interesting there in a way is the one she's never told her partner that the friend said something horrible about him. I think those are always secrets worth keeping, is ones that would just really upset someone. And yet what's the point of telling anyone that, Like, what's the point of upsetting somebody.

But the one that's probably the most interesting there in a way is the one she's never told her partner that the friend said something horrible about him. I think those are always secrets worth keeping, is ones that would just really upset someone. And yet what's the point of telling anyone that, Like, what's the point of upsetting somebody.

If anyone in your life has ever said anything awful about them? No, no way, I would be repeating that.

If anyone in your life has ever said anything awful about them? No, no way, I would be repeating that.

The smoker one, she's dreaming. He knew the whole time I went through that. I used to be a smoker and I had a boyfriend who was so anti smoking, and I used to sneak out and I was there with the bloody washing up gloves and the Polo mints and the chewing gum and they're fresh, and I like, as if he didn't know, he knew, And when we broke up, he was like.

The smoker one, she's dreaming. He knew the whole time I went through that. I used to be a smoker and I had a boyfriend who was so anti smoking, and I used to sneak out and I was there with the bloody washing up gloves and the Polo mints and the chewing gum and they're fresh, and I like, as if he didn't know, he knew, And when we broke up, he was like.

I know you still smoke and I was like me, what do you mean seeing you with your bag of supplies every day?

I know you still smoke and I was like me, what do you mean seeing you with your bag of supplies every day?

I don't know what you mean. I's a probably with living in a house with someone. I tried to keep a secret recently, just for a bit of fun spicings up and Luca walked in and looked me in the eye and said when were you going to tell me? And then just delivered my secret. I didn't have to confess. Out louders, jump in the mumme er out Louder's Facebook group. We have a thread that we've pinned in there with just all of the secrets that people are keeping from their partners, what they think they can keep or shouldn't keep. Please jump in and let us know. Well, it's all right, I'm your free answer. Everyone assumes you'll tell me everything. What you get that from, Well, they're a couple, it's understood.

I don't know what you mean. I's a probably with living in a house with someone. I tried to keep a secret recently, just for a bit of fun spicings up and Luca walked in and looked me in the eye and said when were you going to tell me? And then just delivered my secret. I didn't have to confess. Out louders, jump in the mumme er out Louder's Facebook group. We have a thread that we've pinned in there with just all of the secrets that people are keeping from their partners, what they think they can keep or shouldn't keep. Please jump in and let us know. Well, it's all right, I'm your free answer. Everyone assumes you'll tell me everything. What you get that from, Well, they're a couple, it's understood.

I never heard of that.

I never heard of that.

Well, you've never been a couple.

Well, you've never been a couple.

Love couple, love coupled.

Love couple, love coupled.

Keeping secrets Out loud. It's Friday, and we have recommendations for your weekend for you. So Jesse Stevens recommend a TV show.

Keeping secrets Out loud. It's Friday, and we have recommendations for your weekend for you. So Jesse Stevens recommend a TV show.

This is right up your Ali, Holly, have you heard of this. Yeah, No, I haven't disclaimer.

This is right up your Ali, Holly, have you heard of this. Yeah, No, I haven't disclaimer.

I saw the notes in the script, and I was like, why haven't I heard of this?

I saw the notes in the script, and I was like, why haven't I heard of this?

Yes, since because you've been on a desert island with no reception. But I'm breaking some rules here because I've only watched two episodes. But that's because there's only two episodes available, and I wanted to recommend something that isn't a true crime doco. Just in brackets here, the new Menendez doco. Has anyone seen that?

Yes, since because you've been on a desert island with no reception. But I'm breaking some rules here because I've only watched two episodes. But that's because there's only two episodes available, and I wanted to recommend something that isn't a true crime doco. Just in brackets here, the new Menendez doco. Has anyone seen that?

Is that?

Is that?

Worth my time?

Worth my time?

Oh? So good?

Oh? So good?

So good?

So good?

I did now think there should be led out.

I did now think there should be led out.

They should be let out. Absolutely, Yeah, that's what I believe.

They should be let out. Absolutely, Yeah, that's what I believe.

Kardashian says so, and I generally choose to believe them.

Kardashian says so, and I generally choose to believe them.

Gadashian's our folip rap. They should be let out. That is the documentary. I didn't watch the TV series. Now watch the doco. That was fantastic, and the Lazy Peterson one also brilliant.

Gadashian's our folip rap. They should be let out. That is the documentary. I didn't watch the TV series. Now watch the doco. That was fantastic, and the Lazy Peterson one also brilliant.

Okay, something that isn't true crime, please Jesse, you students.

Okay, something that isn't true crime, please Jesse, you students.

Okay, this is fake crime. I have watched Disclaimer Apple TV, and I wanted to fill the whole of presumed innocent.

Okay, this is fake crime. I have watched Disclaimer Apple TV, and I wanted to fill the whole of presumed innocent.

Sorry, this show is called disclaimer, or you're making a disclo called Disclaimer.

Sorry, this show is called disclaimer, or you're making a disclo called Disclaimer.

The show is called Disclaimer. It's very I keep forgetting it. I keep thinking it's called disclosure or something. Anyway, I wanted to fill the whole of Presumed Innocent because that was brilliant. And then I read about this and it is made by an Oscar winning director. It has Cate Blanchette and Sasha Baron Cohen in the lead roles, and it recently premiered at one of the fancy film and has almost universally positive reviews. This is a premise. Blanchette plays a famed documentary journalist and she gets sent this book or novel, and you watch her in one of the first scenes read this book and she runs to the toilet and vomits, and it's just triggered a real emotional response. And it's because she recognizes herself as one of the characters, and it has revealed a secret that she's been trying to keep hidden for years and years and years. So it's very marital secrets.

The show is called Disclaimer. It's very I keep forgetting it. I keep thinking it's called disclosure or something. Anyway, I wanted to fill the whole of Presumed Innocent because that was brilliant. And then I read about this and it is made by an Oscar winning director. It has Cate Blanchette and Sasha Baron Cohen in the lead roles, and it recently premiered at one of the fancy film and has almost universally positive reviews. This is a premise. Blanchette plays a famed documentary journalist and she gets sent this book or novel, and you watch her in one of the first scenes read this book and she runs to the toilet and vomits, and it's just triggered a real emotional response. And it's because she recognizes herself as one of the characters, and it has revealed a secret that she's been trying to keep hidden for years and years and years. So it's very marital secrets.

All these years, you have concealed parts of yourself from the world to.

All these years, you have concealed parts of yourself from the world to.

A beacon of truth, somebody who inspires me every every day.

A beacon of truth, somebody who inspires me every every day.

You keep everyone in the dark to maintain a balance, and you think you have succeeded until now.

You keep everyone in the dark to maintain a balance, and you think you have succeeded until now.

It is very cinematic. It feels like a movie. It's over like a series, really kind of premium first to have dropped next to a dropping tonight, and then it's like every week until mid November. But everyone's talking about it. It's very mysterious, thriller, dark and it's got Cape Blanchet. Oh brilliant. It sounds amazing.

It is very cinematic. It feels like a movie. It's over like a series, really kind of premium first to have dropped next to a dropping tonight, and then it's like every week until mid November. But everyone's talking about it. It's very mysterious, thriller, dark and it's got Cape Blanchet. Oh brilliant. It sounds amazing.

I'm jumping in in between the two TV shows with a book I have read, which I know Jesse has also read, not least because we're both interviewing the author. In fact, I did it last night. Jodi Picot, I think you might have heard of her. She's just written a few little books. Yeah, just a few little books, books like My Sister's Keeper, Mad Honey. I read books like small great things, all these amazing books. Anyway, Her most recent book is called by any Other Name, and the reason it blew my mind. Like all her books are very immersive. She's absolute master of plot, but she also goes deep into whatever she's writing about, and this is historical fiction.

I'm jumping in in between the two TV shows with a book I have read, which I know Jesse has also read, not least because we're both interviewing the author. In fact, I did it last night. Jodi Picot, I think you might have heard of her. She's just written a few little books. Yeah, just a few little books, books like My Sister's Keeper, Mad Honey. I read books like small great things, all these amazing books. Anyway, Her most recent book is called by any Other Name, and the reason it blew my mind. Like all her books are very immersive. She's absolute master of plot, but she also goes deep into whatever she's writing about, and this is historical fiction.

After I read Mad Honey, I am a beekeeper. There's not a single thing I don't know about bees.

After I read Mad Honey, I am a beekeeper. There's not a single thing I don't know about bees.

She is research heavy, but also very easy to read anyway. By any other name, there isn't it blue my tiny mind. The broad premise is it's a historical fiction and it's about although it plays out in two timelines, two women. But the main premise is that William Shakespeare, the most famous playwright whoever lived.

She is research heavy, but also very easy to read anyway. By any other name, there isn't it blue my tiny mind. The broad premise is it's a historical fiction and it's about although it plays out in two timelines, two women. But the main premise is that William Shakespeare, the most famous playwright whoever lived.

I'm familiar. Now are you familiar with his work?

I'm familiar. Now are you familiar with his work?

I'm glad assume no knowledge. You never know did not write his place. Now I know because I've read this book and then did lots of googling. This is a well established theory, right that there's a group of people for hundreds of years who have believed that Shakespeare was actually either a group of people or somebody else.

I'm glad assume no knowledge. You never know did not write his place. Now I know because I've read this book and then did lots of googling. This is a well established theory, right that there's a group of people for hundreds of years who have believed that Shakespeare was actually either a group of people or somebody else.

Entirely because he wrote in detail about places he'd never been to, about all of these It's almost like he was a publishing company who employed other authors like the other people, to write his place.

Entirely because he wrote in detail about places he'd never been to, about all of these It's almost like he was a publishing company who employed other authors like the other people, to write his place.

There are a lot of people who do not subscribe to this theory. It's worth saying, of course, there lots of people who do believe he was a genius and that he wrote all these plays. But the premise of this book is that Shakespeare was really a woman, or mostly a woman, a specific woman who is the first published poet in Britain called Amelia Bassano. And it is such an interesting novel because that might sound quite dry on the surface of it, if you're not really interested in whether or not Shakespeare road his plays. But what it does so brilliantly is dives into a world where women had no agency whatsoever. Right, So Amelia Bossano, as a woman who was born sort of not wealthy, didn't have status that meant she was going to marry some high up aristocrat or whatever. So she got farmed out very young. And this is a real person who did exist. This is all true. Got farmed out very young to be the mistress to a fancy guy, which is what happened in those days, and you get kept and then all these things happened to her. But really she is this artist. It's so interesting because then of course Becao overlays it with a current plotline about a female playwright who also is finding it very hard to get any credit in that world because female writers are overlooked. It's really good, Like I just found the historical element. I was page turning because I wanted to know what happened to Amelia. It also blew my mind about this whole idea that maybe Shakespeare wasn't Shakespeare, and also the stuff about the current day playwright. I hadn't really considered that there are still so few women in that area.

There are a lot of people who do not subscribe to this theory. It's worth saying, of course, there lots of people who do believe he was a genius and that he wrote all these plays. But the premise of this book is that Shakespeare was really a woman, or mostly a woman, a specific woman who is the first published poet in Britain called Amelia Bassano. And it is such an interesting novel because that might sound quite dry on the surface of it, if you're not really interested in whether or not Shakespeare road his plays. But what it does so brilliantly is dives into a world where women had no agency whatsoever. Right, So Amelia Bossano, as a woman who was born sort of not wealthy, didn't have status that meant she was going to marry some high up aristocrat or whatever. So she got farmed out very young. And this is a real person who did exist. This is all true. Got farmed out very young to be the mistress to a fancy guy, which is what happened in those days, and you get kept and then all these things happened to her. But really she is this artist. It's so interesting because then of course Becao overlays it with a current plotline about a female playwright who also is finding it very hard to get any credit in that world because female writers are overlooked. It's really good, Like I just found the historical element. I was page turning because I wanted to know what happened to Amelia. It also blew my mind about this whole idea that maybe Shakespeare wasn't Shakespeare, and also the stuff about the current day playwright. I hadn't really considered that there are still so few women in that area.

It's really smart and it got me in the hook at the beginning. Is very very good. It's very pasty by any other name, Jodi.

It's really smart and it got me in the hook at the beginning. Is very very good. It's very pasty by any other name, Jodi.

Pico, I am recommending a new Wish show on Binge called Sweetpea. Actually, our CEO and Matt Harvey recommended it to me, and she started talking about it to me in a way that I should have known what it was because entertainment podcast, and she's like, obviously, watching Sweetpea, I need to reevaluate your job. So it's a dark comedy that's set in the UK. It stars Ella Panell. You might know from Yellow Jackets or Fallout if you've watched any of those shows. A brilliant but.

Pico, I am recommending a new Wish show on Binge called Sweetpea. Actually, our CEO and Matt Harvey recommended it to me, and she started talking about it to me in a way that I should have known what it was because entertainment podcast, and she's like, obviously, watching Sweetpea, I need to reevaluate your job. So it's a dark comedy that's set in the UK. It stars Ella Panell. You might know from Yellow Jackets or Fallout if you've watched any of those shows. A brilliant but.

I'm sure I would know her if I saw her.

I'm sure I would know her if I saw her.

Everyone else in the world has watched Yellow Jackets. Yeah, it's true massive.

Everyone else in the world has watched Yellow Jackets. Yeah, it's true massive.

She's got like the biggest eyes ever. I think she's going to be like the next Florence Pew.

She's got like the biggest eyes ever. I think she's going to be like the next Florence Pew.

Oh wow.

Oh wow.

Yeah. So she plays this girl named Rihannon Lewis who had an absolutely awful childhood, like relentlessly bullied, and it's kind of like those bullying situations that just makes you into an adult that you don't want to be. Like everyone was walking over her metaphorically physically everyone's stepping over her, and no one really likes her. They find it really weird. So she makes a list of people that she hates who has like kind of destroyed her life, and then she starts killing them.

Yeah. So she plays this girl named Rihannon Lewis who had an absolutely awful childhood, like relentlessly bullied, and it's kind of like those bullying situations that just makes you into an adult that you don't want to be. Like everyone was walking over her metaphorically physically everyone's stepping over her, and no one really likes her. They find it really weird. So she makes a list of people that she hates who has like kind of destroyed her life, and then she starts killing them.

A lot of victim not anymore. You made me who feel invisible.

A lot of victim not anymore. You made me who feel invisible.

You didn't exist to me then, and you don't now.

You didn't exist to me then, and you don't now.

You ruined my life. I don't underestimate me.

You ruined my life. I don't underestimate me.

She's not who you think she is.

She's not who you think she is.

Fun and after every kill, Jesse, it's actually quite it's so funny. After every kill, she gets like this wave of like self assurance and confidence, and she like is better at her hair and makeup and she looks more put together and everyone starts recognizing her and appreciating her. It's so funny. It also has Jeremy Swift who played Higgins in ted Lasso.

Fun and after every kill, Jesse, it's actually quite it's so funny. After every kill, she gets like this wave of like self assurance and confidence, and she like is better at her hair and makeup and she looks more put together and everyone starts recognizing her and appreciating her. It's so funny. It also has Jeremy Swift who played Higgins in ted Lasso.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

He plays her boss. So she is like a reporter and like it's just so good. It's called sweet Pea, Sweet Pea on binge.

He plays her boss. So she is like a reporter and like it's just so good. It's called sweet Pea, Sweet Pea on binge.

Aw that sounds good.

Aw that sounds good.

For links to all of our recommendations, make sure you are signed up to the MMA mea out Loud newsletter. I literally pour my heart and soul into it so.

For links to all of our recommendations, make sure you are signed up to the MMA mea out Loud newsletter. I literally pour my heart and soul into it so.

Good single week. If you want to know what's going on in EM's mind, it's put together the best in there.

Good single week. If you want to know what's going on in EM's mind, it's put together the best in there.

And if you've already subscribed, share it with a friends because they're gonna love it. You know they love it. We will put a link to that in our show notes.

And if you've already subscribed, share it with a friends because they're gonna love it. You know they love it. We will put a link to that in our show notes.

One unlimited out Loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mum and Maya subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes to get us in your ears five days a week. And a huge thank you to all our current subscribers. In his time for our best and worst of the week, Holly, let's start with your worst.

One unlimited out Loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mum and Maya subscribers. Follow the link in the show notes to get us in your ears five days a week. And a huge thank you to all our current subscribers. In his time for our best and worst of the week, Holly, let's start with your worst.

My worst. I listened to the episode you did last week when m was sick with Amelia where you talked about canceling plans. That wasn't my worst. It was a very good episode. Don't worry.

My worst. I listened to the episode you did last week when m was sick with Amelia where you talked about canceling plans. That wasn't my worst. It was a very good episode. Don't worry.

It was terrible. It was the worst thing to know.

It was terrible. It was the worst thing to know.

I wantedn't at all, but I had to cancel a plan this week for very sad reasons.

I wantedn't at all, but I had to cancel a plan this week for very sad reasons.

That I hated.

That I hated.

I hate canceling things that you people have been counting on you. But I was meant to be today flying to Perth actually to speak at a fiction festival. If you were going to that, I'm sorry everybody, because I'm not going. But I had to cancel because Brent's father's really unwell in New Zealand and he's had to fly to be with him. And it's one of those I've talked about this often, one of those really shitty family moments where living far from your family, whether it's in New Zealand, whether it's in England, whether it's in another state, whether it's in another city, it's just so difficult and so emotionally, logistically mentally challenging all the time. And we've just been on this amazing holiday which I'm about to tell you about, but we're coming back and like being slapped in the face with all that reality and then having to cancel this important work thing I wanted to do but for obviously very important reasons. That was definitely my worst and my heart goes out to anyone who's juggling all that stuff at the moment with elderly parents and.

I hate canceling things that you people have been counting on you. But I was meant to be today flying to Perth actually to speak at a fiction festival. If you were going to that, I'm sorry everybody, because I'm not going. But I had to cancel because Brent's father's really unwell in New Zealand and he's had to fly to be with him. And it's one of those I've talked about this often, one of those really shitty family moments where living far from your family, whether it's in New Zealand, whether it's in England, whether it's in another state, whether it's in another city, it's just so difficult and so emotionally, logistically mentally challenging all the time. And we've just been on this amazing holiday which I'm about to tell you about, but we're coming back and like being slapped in the face with all that reality and then having to cancel this important work thing I wanted to do but for obviously very important reasons. That was definitely my worst and my heart goes out to anyone who's juggling all that stuff at the moment with elderly parents and.

As you say, when you can't go and visit, you can't just get you. You can't.

As you say, when you can't go and visit, you can't just get you. You can't.

And there are these terrible maths that everybody has to do in this instant where you're like, we now do I go?

And there are these terrible maths that everybody has to do in this instant where you're like, we now do I go?

Afterwards? Do I go?

Afterwards? Do I go?

And it's it's just awful. So you know it's Brent's worst, no doubt. But also in terms of canceling plans, there are really shitty reasons for doing it. And that's what happened to me this week. So if you were going to see me at the Perfection Festival this weekend, I apologize for not being there. You won't miss me. There are so many amazing riders on the panel I was going to be on. But that's why I'm not my best though, is that we have just been on the most amazing family holiday for a week and we went to a place called lord How Island, which some of you might have heard of the people always saying, oh, is it like a tropical land. It's actually officially in New South Wales, even though it takes two hours to fly there. It's right, little tiny dot in the middle of the ocean.