Em grew up watching this woman live her life online - and now she’s gone. Why and how and what does it mean?

Is it okay for older women to “perve” at younger men? One writer says yes, and also that there needs to be a new name for it.

Also, what people in the front row and concerts are really doing in their pants and why pop stars have had enough of it. 

Clare has a message for Outlouders on her last show before her baby boy arrives. And it made her cry a little bit. Holly has a very, very weird little show for you, and Em wants you to get behind the return of the dragons. 

Join the waitlist for Very Peri, Mamamia's exclusive perimenopause series launching very soon. 25 world-leading experts, over 20 on-demand sessions, instant access. We’ve sorted through the noise so you don't have to. Go to veryperi.com.au today. You hot? Same.

Recommendations

Em recommends the House Of The Dragon on HBO. 

Clare recommends YOU, the Outlouders.

Holly recommends Small Prophets on ABC iview. 

Keen for more? Check out the Mamamia Out Loud newsletter.

What To Listen To Next: 

• Listen to our latest episode: 9 Questions To Ask Before Going 'No Contact'
• Listen: ‘Old Money’ Face & The Fight Millennials Are Having With Their Parents
• Listen: “Emotional Blackmail” An Update On Harry’s Visit Home
• Listen: A ‘Food Free’ House & Everything We Know About Taylor’s Wedding
• Listen: The Toddler Mum's Sex Story Everyone's Yelling About
• Listen: Unpacked: Rivals, The Rompiest Show On Television
• Listen: EMERGENCY MEETING: Karl, Tommy & The Sack
• Listen: 'Australia Aged Me 13 Years' & Did Pauline Hanson Say That?
• Listen: Two Bachelorettes, Zero Chill: Taylor’s Mystery Party

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What to read: 

• What in the faecal matter is going on with live concerts?
• A fight in a sold-out theatre, and the problem with public behaviour in 2026.
• HOLLY WAINWRIGHT: Want to start a fight in 3 words? Work from home.
• 'I'm a WFH parent. Here are the 6 hacks I swear by to actually make it work.'

THE END BITS: 

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GET IN TOUCH:

Feedback? We’re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au

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CREDITS:

Hosts: Holly Wainwright, Clare Stephens & Emily Vernem

Acting Group Executive Producer: Emeline Gazilas

Executive Producer: Grace Rouvray

Video Producer: Josh Green

Associate Producer: Tessa Kotowicz

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land on which we have recorded this podcast.