TFW Maybe You Did Actually Do The Thing You’re Accused Of, Oops (Sophocles’ Oedipus Tyrannos Part 2)

Published May 16, 2023, 7:00 AM

Oedipus defends himself against the accusations, but there's much more to the death of Laius than he understands... Plus, gods so many prophecies! Help keep LTAMB going by subscribing to Liv's Patreon for bonus content!

CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing.

Sources: Short excerpt from Homer's Odyssey, translated by Samuel Butler; Oedipus Tyrannos (sometimes called Oedipus Rex or Oedipus the King): short quotes are from the translation by Frank Nisetich, passages quoted from Richard Jebb translation. Other editions/translations referred to: David Mulroy, and Robert Fagles.

Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions.

Oh hi, hello there, this is Let's talk about MIT's baby, and I'm your host live she who loves a Greek tragedy even when it's not written by Euripides, though obviously Euripides is still the best.

Just don't tell Aristotle I said. So today we are back with part two of Sophocles's most famous play, I mean, arguably the most famous play from all of Greek tragedy, and certainly the one that is most often deemed to be the hyph of tragedy, the perfect example of what tragedy should be. Oedipus Tyrannos, Oedipus Rex, Oedipus the King. So many names for the same thing. It's Rex that's become most well known, most used in translations, even though it's Latin. It's also just like not quite right, and that's important. Rex is the word for king, but the ancient Greek had two distinct words for king, and the distinction is very very relevant here in Oedipus, and will only get more relevant as we go on. Basilaus is the word for a king that took the throne through ancestry, therefore a kind of divine rule. He was born into it. Tyrannos, meanwhile, is a king who seized power, took it, and made it his own. It's where the word tyranny and tyrant will eventually come from. But here now, when this myth would be imagined to have taken place, it wasn't a bad thing. It was just a distinction, and words revolving around tyranny are often used in this play with the same distinction. They're referring to the rule of someone like Oedipus, who took the throne of Thebes after his defeat of the Sphinx, because their earlier ruler, Lias was missing and assumed dead. And speaking of Lias, where we last left off in the city of Thebes, there was a plague. The city was sick and dying, and their seeking answers a solution, a way to save them all. It came in the form of a prophecy by the Oracle of Delphi, brought to the king the Tyrannos Oedipus by his brother in law and once trusted adviser, Creon. The oracle said that the city must purge itself of the murderer of their earlier ruler, of Lias. That murderer, though no one knew who he was. No one witnessed the event and could speak of it. The murderer was in the city, so the oracle says, And so Oedipus called upon the one man in Thebes who should have the answers, the blind prophet, Tyresius. But Tyresius didn't tell Oedipus anything he wanted to hear. And when we last left these two they were fighting back and forth, trading insults and barbes and accusations. Because Tyresius says that the problem the entire time has been Oedipus. It's Oedipus who murdered Lias. He says, Oedipus is the reason for the playing on the city of Thebes, on Oedipus's own city. But my gods, is Oedipus unwilling to entertain this accusation? And fine, no one wants to be accused of murder. But it's his unwillingness to ask questions to probe, maybe, like why is it that Tyresius is saying such things? Why is it that he thinks that Oedipus is the one who killed LIUs? That should give us some pause. This is episode two eleven that feeling when maybe did actually do the thing you're accused of? Whoops, Oedipus Tyrano's Part two. Oedipus and Tyresius have been fighting, arguing constantly for far too long. Oedipus has just decided that Tyresius accusing him of being the one of causing the plague in the city, of being the one who murdered Lias, Theeves's former leader. He's decided that this means that Tyresius and Creon are working against him, trying to overthrow him. He entertains no other theories. He doesn't ask questions, doesn't probe how or why it would be that he killed Lias, How Tyresius could say this, What more does he know? He asks no questions. He just devolves into fury and rage and denial, and finally Teresius bites back. He begins his speech telling oedipis off with a very pointed line quote, though you are the tyrant here, others still have the right to answer you at equal length. You are the tyrant here. Now in the modern world, and certainly in English, we hear that as a fairly simple claim. Oedipus is acting tyrannical he's being a tyrant, except there's actually so, so, so much more to it in the ancient Greek, like I briefly mentioned up at the top, because etymology is fun and oh, I want to talk about it more so, I said at the top of the episode. But let's really look into what this means tyranos. Tyranos means king in this context. It has yet to take on the modern word of tyrant. It's getting close in Athens at this time, but not when this may is supposed to have taken place. It means this very specific type of king, a king that sees power, rather than one who was born into it. That's why the use of the Latin rex in so many versions and translations just loses so much of this additional context, because in this case, Oedipus is not just any king. He's not a basilaus one born into power. He is a tyranos, one who sees it. Of course, I mean no spoilies, but I mean there's a bit more to it than that, but we will get there. The point is that Tyresius is not just calling Edipus a tyrant. He's not saying that for the sake of it. He's commenting on Oedipus as a leader, and he's using it as an insult here, but it's not inherently an insult. There is a negative connotation, and certainly in the time that Sophocles was writing like I was saying like that, that was more of an explicit negative connotation. Athens had had a whole time with Tyranos kings in the past, but in this very ancient mythical Thebes, he's just this type of king who's also well behaving, like the English word tyrant Oedipus earlier had gone so far as to mock Tyresius for being blind, and Tyresius sets him straight on that now he might be blind, he says, but it's Oedipus who can't see what's in front of him quote I say, you see, all right, but not the evil you're in, or where you live, or whom you live with, whom he lives with. Indeed, Tyresius goes on asking Oedipus if he even really knows his origins, where he comes from. Does he know that he's loathsome to his family? Tyresius asks, with a sneer, quote, your mother and father's double curse will hound you from this land one day in terror sight it now, but seeing darkness then, Tyresius does love to be cryptic in his fury. He tells Oedipus that he doesn't know now, but when he understands everything, he will see it all for what it was. Quote that wedding in the palace, that port, no port at all into which you sailed so smoothly. He tells Oedipus that he'll see the evils in himself how they relate, even to his own children. He finishes by telling him that no mortal will ever be ruined quite like Oedipus will be oof. Oedipus, though, might as well not even be listening. He doesn't even reply to Tyresius directly. He just turns to the chorus and is like, do I really have to listen to this guy? And he tries to tell Tyrasius to just leave and not come back. But Tyresius isn't letting it go that easily. You asked me to come here, he reminds Oedipus, And then it turns Oedipus insults Tyresus's abilities, saying he wouldn't have invited him here if he knew he just spout such drivel, to which Tyresius very pointedly says, your parents certainly thought I made sense, and this is what Oedipus needed to hear. Quote what parents? Wait, who brought me forth?

Oh?

Are we certain about our parentageushm intrigue hmm. But Tyresius is still Tyresius, so he's so it's not that easy. He goes back to cryptic responses that only ever serve to make Oedipis more angry. Aren't you supposed to be good with riddles? Tyresius asks him with a bite. Oedipus was, after all, the one who finally solved the Sphinx's riddle. In the end, Tyresius won't answer any more of Oedipus's questions. He's ready to leave now, after one more little speech, one more little bit of knowledge for the road. Quote this man, the one you've long been looking for with threats and proclamations about the death of Lias. He's here a guest from abroad, so they say, but soon to emerge a native theban though he'll take no pleasure in that discovery. Tyresius goes on to tell Oedipus that this man and the man whose truth will be revealed will then go on to wander blind, a beggar with nowhere to go, making his way to a foreign land with only his walking stick to guide him. End quote. He'll be found to be both brother and father to his children, son and husband to his mother, breeding where his father bred, having spilled his father's blood. He'll be found to be both brother and father to his children, son and husband to his mother, breeding where his father bred, having spilled his father's blood. Not what you want to hear from a prophet, even one you're not likely to believe. Both men leave the stage at this point, or we think they do, and the chorus sings. The horus sings of this man, this mystery man, whose fate has been revealed. What a horrible fate it is. Seems like a fine time for him to run before Zeus's child is after him, before those furies are after him for his crimes. They sing of how this man needs to be hunted down quote For under the wild wood, in caves, among rocks, he roams like the bulb, bereft of his herd, hampered with, hampered foot, trying to outrun the prophecies from Earth's center, that hover around him, ever on target, ever alive. Then they turn to singing of Oedipus, the accusations against him. But no, they can't see it, They can't fathom that it could be true. To them, he is the man who saved them from the sphinx, who who saved the whole city from the creature's grasp. Quote, So in my thoughts, he could not be guilty of a crime. And with their song sung, Creon joins the stage. He's there to talk about Oedipus's accusations against him. He's heard the claims. He's not only hurt by hearing such things said against him, and without any reason on Oedipus's part. But he can't go on like that, like treason is a crime, one can't come back from. The chorus kind of comforts Creon, if only by saying that though Oedipus did say this about him, it was almost certainly set out of anger more than judgment. Before long, Oedipus returns, though, and Creon and the chorus only get a brief moment to speculate on where his head is at when he made the claims, because he's there in front of Creon, and he's certainly making the claim clearly. Now he berates Creon for not only making these designs to overthrow Oedipus, but standing before him after doing it. Quote, isn't it foolish this attempt of yours to seek a tyranny without wealth and friends. For that you need popular support and money. There's that word again, tyranny. Oedipus is now accusing Creon of seeking tyranny, and he's doing it unironically, as though Creon's tyranny would be somehow different from Oedipuses, is the one is more deserving of this status than the other. Aedipus is absolutely blinded by his anger. Now. He's unable to see anything critically, to think rationally about what he's doing or saying. He's just so consumed by not only being accused of being the reason thebes is plagued, but one can assume, like by his own thoughts about what that might mean. He thinks he has the support of the people and that Creon doesn't. But what evidence does he actually have for that? Creon stops Oedipus. He wants to be heard, wants to defend himself at the very least They speak quickly back and forth, with Creon repeatedly asking to be heard, and Oedipus being far too stubborn to listen. He won't actually let Creon defend himself. He's just decided what's going on, but he does eventually begin to ask questions about Lias and his disappearance. When was he last seen? He asks Creon years ago? He's told, and was Tyresius around then? Oedipus presses he was. Creon confirms, and he was just as wise and well respected then as he is now. Did he speak of me? Then? Oedipus asks, but no, Creon says, not that he knows of. And why didn't you all try to find Lias's killer? We did, obviously, Creon tells him, But we couldn't find anything. We couldn't learn anything. Oedipus now decides that the blame resides with Creon, because if he'd never suggested that they bring Tyresius in for answers, Tyresius would have never been able to accuse Oedipus in the first place. I didn't hear him say it, Creon counters, But still, I've got questions for you, and I've got as much right to ask them as you do me fine, Oedipus agrees, he listened to Creon. You're married to my sister. Creon begins a statement more than a question. They both know that Oedipus is indeed married to Jocasta, Creon's sister, and you rule this land. Creon adds quote hand in hand with her, which I just quite enjoy. It's kind of an admission of the power and control that Jocasta actually hold rare for a woman, a queen, but then she was queen before Oedipus was king. And I'm your third? Is that right? Creon asks? Of course, Oedipus says, and that's why what you've done is so bad. Creon is ready to defend himself. Though, look at it this way, he tells Oedipus. Why would I want to seize power from you by force and rule while living in fear when I could remain as I am, third to you, holding more than enough power, but without any of the dirty work, without the living in fear. He's quite comfortable with his place as it is. He tells Oedipus, he has no desire for more power, let alone to take it by force. If you still don't trust me. He goes on, go and check what the oracle said for yourself, like ensure that it was what I told you. And if you find that I've conspired with Tyrasius, just kill me. Don't worry about a vote, Just do it. Just don't accuse me without merit. Don't just guess that I've done this, don't just assume me evil quote. But you'll know all of this for sure in time. For time alone reveals the man who's just while you can know a bad one in a day and for all, Creon seems to present a rational and reasoned point, defends himself well, and simply asks for the truth to come out before Oedipus makes any rash decisions. Oedipus just he is not here for it. He's made up his mind. He's not thinking clearly. He's only concerned with the threats made against him, and he seems to barely listen to a thing that Creon has said. No, he's ready not only to exile Creon, but he wants him dead just like that. Finally, the chorus leader has to break them up. He tells them enough, there's Jocasta coming from the palace she'll help to put an end to this. Jocasta speaks to her husband and her brother, quote why this senseless storm of words? Is this the time to stir up private ills when the country is sick? Aren't you ashamed? Yeah, the reasonable and rational woman is here. Thank fuck. She tells Oedipus to go inside, and then tells her brother to go home too, quote, don't make so much out of nothing, But the men don't listen. Crayon tells her that her husband is trying to pass judgment that would cause his execution. Oedipus complains that Creon's plotting against him. I like to imagine they sound like whiney children here, trying to get mommy to believe them over the other. That pun no pun intended, Oedipus, damn it. Jocasta basically says, listen to my brother. He's sworn an oath to you, and you should believe him when he tells you that he's innocent. From here, the chorus and Oedipus begin to sing together. They're telling him to be persuaded by these words, that he doesn't have proof of his claims against Creon, that he's a friend bound by an oath, and he isn't deserving of a punishment without evidence of his guilt. But Edipus only sees this as confirmation of his own guilt, that that if if it isn't Creon who's guilty, then it's Oedipus, and that by asking this of him, the chorus is condemning him to a fate of death or exile. And they're basically like, dude, that is not what we're saying, except they're the chorus in Esophocle's place, so they're eloquent as fuck when they say it. The point remains still In the end, Oedipus decides to listen to the chorus and despare Creon's life, even if he's still convinced that it might mean the end of his own. Creon leaves bitterly, well aware that it's only the words of the chorus of these theban Elders that have saved his life, and that Oedipus didn't come to this conclusion on his own, though he should have. With Creon gone, the chorus tries to tell Jocasta to bring Oedipus inside to have him calmed down, but she's having none of that. She will not take him anywhere. She won't leave herself until someone tells her what a fuck is going on. Between the Chorus and Oedipus, they try seriously hard to avoid telling Jocasta anything faithfully. She gives zero fox and is a strong woman and simply will not have that, even when they begin to talk about the things as if she isn't there, as if her view on the matter, her knowledge of it happening at all, doesn't matter at all, But she pushes and pushes, and finally Oedipus tells her. Quote he says that I'm the one who murdered Lias, which I mean, Oedipus, that isn't really true, Like that's what Tyrosius said. Creon just kind of helped you bring him there. Eventually he does concede that fine, Creon didn't say it. He had to profit do his dirty work, to which Jocasta seems relieved. Oh, she says, then you can consider yourself innocent. Quote. No mortal has any share in arts of prophecy, and she continues She's got of exactly this, how little prophecies really matter. So then she launches into a story about Lias, her former husband. The former leader of Thebes. She tells Oedipus that Lias was once told of a prophecy that quote, his fate was to be killed by his own child, the son that would be born to him and me. This is proof that prophecies don't mean much, she tells Oedipus, because the rumors say that Lias was killed by bandits where three roads meet. And the child that we had together, he immediately left out of the mountain side with the little kid's feet pinned together. So you know, wasn't them, she adds, quote, And so Apollo didn't cause the child to be his father's killer, or made Lias meet the fate he feared at the child's hand. Wait, Oedipus replies, calling Jocasta very explicitly his wife. My mind wandered when you were speaking just then. Did you say that Lia was murdered where three roads meet? Yeah, of course, Jockster replies, that's a detail about his death that's always been well known. Where is this place, Edipus asks, very carefully. She tells him, quote. The land's called Focis, and the road splits there, one branch to Delphi, the other to Dallas. Oedipus swallows, maybe blinks. He takes it in. And how long ago did this happen? He asks? Jocasta replies, quote, the message reached the city just before you emerged as the ruler of this land. Edipus doesn't reply to her now, but to Zeus. Quote, Oh, Zeus, what have you planned to do with me? What's wrong? His wife asks? Oedipus breathes out heavy quote, don't ask me yet, but tell me about Lias. What did he look like? How old was he? And so? Joe Casta, Edipus's wife, widow of the former king Lias, tells him she describes her former husband. Edipus replies by crying out in anguish quote, Oi, boy, it seems I didn't know I cast myself under a deadly curse just now. Joe Casta is worried. Now Edipus is not behaving as she would expect him to. He's truly distraught, and she can't sort out why that would be. I mean, she just basically even proved that prophecies don't matter. But he doesn't tell her yet what's wrong. He presses her about the details. She tells him who Lias was traveling with how many men were with him at the time. She tells him about the wagon Lias rode in. She tells him that an enslaved man was the only one to make it back, and it was he who told her the story this survivor. Is this survivor still in thebes, Oedipus asks no. She tells him, Quote, the moment he returned and saw that you were on the throne and Lias dead, he touched my hand and begged that I sent him off to the fields to past your flocks and be as far from sight of the city as he could. Well, that isn't suspicious at all, guys, I wonder why the man could possibly want that. After hearing this news about the sole survivor of the attack that killed the former king Lias, Oedipus asks if they can have the man brought to the palace. I mean, sure, we can do that, Jocasta tells her husband. But I have a right to know why you're so upset, so Oedipus tells her his story. Quote, my father was Pollybus of Corinth. My mother Merope, a Dorian. He goes on. He says that he was held in very high esteem there in Corinth. All was well and normal, until one day a drunk man came up to him baited him quote, saying I was not my father's son. I was troubled but held it in that day. On the next day, I went to my parents and questioned them. He goes on to explain that his parents were upset about this man's accusations, and that that that reassured Oedipus and it wasn't true. Still it worried him. After the rumors became more well known in Corinth, so he visited the Oracle of Delphi without his parents' knowledge, and Apollo quote sent me away without what I'd come for, But to my sorrow, he gave me terrifying miser prophecies that I'd lie with my mother and bring to light a brood intolerable for men to see, and be the killer of the father who sired me. No making the connection about what Tyresia said earlier, it seems I will, though. Oedipus tells his wife, the mother of his four children, Jocasta, that with this news he felt that all he could do was leave Corinth forever to do whatever he could to avoid that prophecy being fulfilled and quote, on my way, I reached the very place where you have said this tyrant met his death. And there's that word again, but this time it's being used about Lias, which is very pointedly not accurate. At this point, seemingly Oedipus knows almost nothing about Lias as a ruler, though one would imagine that in the twenty or so years he's been with his wife, she must have told him something. Regardless, Lias was not a tyrannos. He was the true king, He was in line for the throne. He was a Basilus. It's Oedipus who's the tyrannos, the tyrant, the king who seized power rather than being born into it, at least as far as we know. But Oedipus has more to admit to his wife. He tells her that when he was on that road he met a group of travelers, one in a wagon. They tried to force him off the road, and he reacted in anger, striking them. When they attacked him further, he lashed out and killed them all. Still, he hasn't come to terms with what that could mean entirely. Quote, but if there's some connection between that stranger on the road, and Lias, who who now would be more wretched than I? What man could be more hated by the gods. He's getting there, but he won't fully admit it. Yet. He does question if it's true, what would that make him to have killed a man and then taken his city, defiled his bed by marrying his widow. Must he be exiled, then, he wonders, quote and in my exile, never see my own never set foot on native land, or I'll lie with my mother and kill my father Pollybus, who gave me life and brought me up. Still worry about those parents back in Corinth. And somehow this revelation about Lias might lead him back to Corinth, he thinks, but might lead him there to his parents, where he might fulfill the prophecy. Quote. May I never never pure and holy Gods see that day. Let me vanish instead from the sight of men before, for I see the stain of such disaster come upon me. The chorus tries to reassure him. Just wait, they tell him, don't jump to any conclusions just yet. Wait until this survivor arrives to tell you what he saw when Lias met his fate and Oedipus agrees, adding that he's counting on this survivor to confirm Jocasta's story that Lias and his men were killed by bandits, not just one man. That will free Oedipus from his worries, that will prove him innocent. Don't worry. Jocasta tells her husband, that's what he said back then, and I'm certain that he'll say it again now. He can't take it back. Everyone heard him say it at the time. Besides, she continues, he'll never make the murder of Lias fit with Apollo's prophecy. That's what matters, regardless of anything. Lias certainly wasn't murdered by the son that he had with me. Quote that poor creature never killed him, but he died himself before. Yeah, Oedipus confirmed, You're right. Still, let's send someone to get the survivor, to bring him here to tell his story. Feeling just a little bit better, a little more certain, Oedipus and Tracasta go back inside the palace to await this soul survivor. They leave the chorus on stage to sing about everything that's just happened. They sing in favor of the gods, heavenly Olympus. But they also sing of those down on earth quote arrogance breeds the tyrant. They sing of hubris in humans, in men. They ask the gods to keep this city safe quote never to abolish the strife that benefits the city. The god I will never cease to hold as my protector. They sing of men who don't fear justice, who don't revere the gods. They sing of evil fates for reckless men, men who get their wishes unjustly. They sing of crimes, of avoiding the wrath of the gods and for all. They sing of the gods and worshiping them, revering them, They also question them quote no longer will I go in reverence to the untouchable navel of the earth, or to the temple of a Bye, or to Olympia if these prophecies do not come true, for all men to recognize. They're questioning Apollo, questioning his prophecies. They're suggesting that if they don't come true, then why do they bother going to Apollo at all? Why do they bother seeking his guidance? They finish their song quote, nowhere does Apollo shine in honor religion has perished, and then Jocasta returns to the stage. She tells the chorus and the audience that she's considering going to Apollo's shrine, bringing him offerings in the hopes of gaining favor, because Oedipus he isn't well. He's inside quote in the grip of feelings running too high, whipped by pains of every sort. She's trying to reassure him, to give him advice, but he's not able to take anything. In quote, I've come with these offerings to seek deliverance from our impurity. For now we all shudder to see him in the pilot of our ship, hurled overboard. But before she can say much more, and before the chorus can reply to her to her concerns about her husband, a messenger arrives from Corinth, seeking Oedipus the Tyrant. Oh God, this play is seriously fun, Like, thank you all for so much for listening as always, like I was really excited to revisit this play now that I'm so much more well versed in Greek myth and tragedy and just like everything. But it's totally exceeding my expectations. But coming at it as a straight as just the play without diving too much into the background of the characters and what they should or should not know by now. Is like, it's a far more interesting way of telling this story. There are gonna be so many revelations, and while I imagine we all know what the ultimate end result is gonna be, seeing how Sophocle's told the story, how he's handling the characters, and the knowledge that again they do and do not have God's far more interesting than anything else. So next week we're gonna finish the play, well, we'll get all that knowledge that we're still lacking or that we're just assuming at this point. And then the week after I'm actually gonna look at the myth behind the play and beyond it, the things that the ancient Athenian audience would have known ahead of time and how that might have influenced their viewing of the play. We're gonna talk about the Sphinx and the prophecy, about Lias too, where that came from and why so much there We're basically just gonna look at everything else when it comes to these characters and their story, everything outside of the play, because Gods, it turns up truly, there's there's so much more to it that I just realize I can dedicated whole episode to that, to like the why, the how, the when, the Sphinx of it all, because who doesn't want to learn more about the riddling woman monster Sphinx? But for now, for all, I prefer yourripanies. This play is brilliant and fascinating, and really I just really think that it's vital that we look at it beyond the kind of like modern understanding of Oedipus, like look at what makes him and Jocasta so tragic, and maybe even look at like how fucking Freud fucked it all up for everyone. There's a reason this is seen as the absolute best Greek tragedy, and it's not because of fucking Freud's nonsense complexes. No wow, But that is for future episodes. For now, as always, thank you, and let's end on a five star review from one of you amazing listeners. I picked this one because, quite selfishly, this person really gets what I'm trying to do here, especially when it comes to like redoing episodes like this or plays like this rather and emphasizes all the things that I'm really most proud of like the growth of this show, the things that have changed in these almost like six years since the beginning, and everything in between. So just thank you. This one is from a user called It's ky Hose, It's ki Hose something like that in the States. Blew my expectations away. The first few episodes of this podcast are rocky, as they always are. I had been worried Live was not going to meet my requirements for a Mythos podcast, as I am picky for a good reason, but she absolutely has become an incredible source for many, inviting both scholars and creatives onto her podcast, and her sourcing has grown into something very admirable. She does mention jk Rowling a few times, but denounces it in a conversation episode after that woman's true nature came out and that the final moment of relief for me when it came to this podcast. Live is wonderful and still growing as a researcher, and I use her sourcing for my university classes with ease. Seriously, thank you, thank you for that one, Like it really meant a lot, like all of them do, and I read them all and they make me so happy. So thank you all for your reviews, but so having somebody see the growth of the show, like, that's what I'm most proud of, and especially like you know, I've said it before, but like you know, five years ago, I did praise that woman who wrote those books because I am the millennial who grew up with them completely, and like I mean, before I say anything else, like fuck her. You know, I support trans people in every possible fucking way. Fuck turfs, but like having people recognize that, and the people who come to me and ask questions about that to get my confirmation about how I feel. I really appreciate that. It's like I joke with people, but like I have really bad anxiety, especially social anxiety, so I can't reply to all the messages that I get. I love them all, I just can't reply to them all. It gives me stress, even though you guys are all so nice. But if somebody asks me how I feel about that author or how I feel about trans people, that is a question that I will always answer as soon as I see the email, like truly immediately, because it's so important that people understand that I support trans people and I do not support Turfy turfing assholes. So away I appreciate that review especially, but also to any of you who feel that way or have seen it in me, thank you. Okay, let's talk about it. If He's written and produced by me Live Albert Mikayla Smith is the hermes to my Olympians. Honestly, she handles so many things. I just love her to death. Stephanie Foley works to transcribe the podcast for YouTube captions and accessibility. The podcast is hosted and monetized by iHeartMedia. Help me continue bringing you the world with Greek mythology and the Ancient Mediterranean by becoming a patron. We've got bonus episodes and more. Visit patreon dot com slash mits baby, or click the link in this episode's description. God, I love this job so fucking much. Thank you all for helping me do it. It's fucking fun as hell. I am leeve and I love this shit.