I'm Jen mcmamonie from the Ancient History Thandral.

I'm Jen mcmamonie from the Ancient History Thandral.

Podcast, and I am Liv Albert from Let's Talk About Miss Baby. I said I would do it, and I did it, and it was terrible. Go ahead down.

Podcast, and I am Liv Albert from Let's Talk About Miss Baby. I said I would do it, and I did it, and it was terrible. Go ahead down.

And today we are joined by a very special debut author. Liv and I are going to co host this joint episode. We are delighted to welcome a brand new rising star in the romanticy genre. She writes spicy, sultry, sexy scenes, morally gray heroes, hot mess heroines, and y'all, I have never blushed so hard while reading a book. Join us in welcome so the lady now, Oh, bless your heart live.

And today we are joined by a very special debut author. Liv and I are going to co host this joint episode. We are delighted to welcome a brand new rising star in the romanticy genre. She writes spicy, sultry, sexy scenes, morally gray heroes, hot mess heroines, and y'all, I have never blushed so hard while reading a book. Join us in welcome so the lady now, Oh, bless your heart live.

Now, join us in welcoming.

Now, join us in welcoming.

My accent is literally all over the place and it's never going to stop. Now join us in welcoming Jenny Williamson, author of Enemy of My Dreams to the podcast.

My accent is literally all over the place and it's never going to stop. Now join us in welcoming Jenny Williamson, author of Enemy of My Dreams to the podcast.

And name you've never heard before. She's brand new debut author.

And name you've never heard before. She's brand new debut author.

Hi. Thanks for having.

Hi. Thanks for having.

Me, Oh, thank you for thank you for coming on our show. Yes today, Yeah.

Me, Oh, thank you for thank you for coming on our show. Yes today, Yeah.

You're welcome. I'm so honored to be asked.

You're welcome. I'm so honored to be asked.

Oh well, and we are honored to have you.

Oh well, and we are honored to have you.

We are.

We are.

I knew I needed some extra backup for our February Ancient History Fangirl book Club pick.

I knew I needed some extra backup for our February Ancient History Fangirl book Club pick.

So I asked Live.

So I asked Live.

If she would kindly come on and help me interview this totally unknown, brand new author.

If she would kindly come on and help me interview this totally unknown, brand new author.

And though I have never I've never met this author at all before, I just happened to have read the book like a good five or six months ago. Now, I was just real lucky that I got a crazy, crazy advanced copy.

And though I have never I've never met this author at all before, I just happened to have read the book like a good five or six months ago. Now, I was just real lucky that I got a crazy, crazy advanced copy.

Yes I had, Jenny.

Yes I had, Jenny.

It's like, okay, I had.

It's like, okay, I had.

We get it, guys. With that.

We get it, guys. With that.

No, I'm really enjoying this. Let's continue.

No, I'm really enjoying this. Let's continue.

Well, Jenny, I'm glad to hear you say that, because I'm going to.

Well, Jenny, I'm glad to hear you say that, because I'm going to.

Start right out of the gates. Oh good with the tough questions. I could do this in my sleep.

Start right out of the gates. Oh good with the tough questions. I could do this in my sleep.

But my first question for you, Jenny is can you give us the elevator pitch for Enemy of My Dreams?

But my first question for you, Jenny is can you give us the elevator pitch for Enemy of My Dreams?

So, Jenna has asked me this on to several different episodes.

So, Jenna has asked me this on to several different episodes.

But you've never been on this show before. I don't know why you're trying to pretend like you're a regular.

But you've never been on this show before. I don't know why you're trying to pretend like you're a regular.

I dreamed it, But fine, I just met the two of you, and exactly Jen would have no way of knowing that. This is a difficult question for me. Okay, wait, I have a copy of my book in front of me, and so can I really just read what?

I dreamed it, But fine, I just met the two of you, and exactly Jen would have no way of knowing that. This is a difficult question for me. Okay, wait, I have a copy of my book in front of me, and so can I really just read what?

You can't read the cop No, you can't read the copy just as I can.

You can't read the cop No, you can't read the copy just as I can.

It's like that your book.

It's like that your book.

Well, but I mean you have that, then you have to have the it memorized basically.

Well, but I mean you have that, then you have to have the it memorized basically.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Remember remember thea We had thea Ona gas on on earlier to talk about her book, The Hurricane.

Remember remember thea We had thea Ona gas on on earlier to talk about her book, The Hurricane.

Wars, and I asked her the same question.

Wars, and I asked her the same question.

I have general memory of this because I was not on the on.

I have general memory of this because I was not on the on.

The show exactly where.

The show exactly where.

Yeah, well, I'm going to tell I'm going to remind both of our listeners.

Yeah, well, I'm going to tell I'm going to remind both of our listeners.

I'm great already, both of our listeners.

I'm great already, both of our listeners.

Listeners, baby listeners and fan girl listeners.

Listeners, baby listeners and fan girl listeners.

Oh no, just the two people who are listening to this.

Oh no, just the two people who are listening to this.

Right now, the two listeners to all.

Right now, the two listeners to all.

Of this to the two people listening. But anyway, I'm just gonna remind. I'm going to remind listeners that one of the best things she advised Anny to do as a debut author and for all authors, is to know your elevator pitch, to be able to pitch your book.

Of this to the two people listening. But anyway, I'm just gonna remind. I'm going to remind listeners that one of the best things she advised Anny to do as a debut author and for all authors, is to know your elevator pitch, to be able to pitch your book.

Now.

Now.

We did this months ago, back in October, and I warned Jenny excuse me, author, I'm going to talk to your publicist about this. This is an unacceptable behavior.

We did this months ago, back in October, and I warned Jenny excuse me, author, I'm going to talk to your publicist about this. This is an unacceptable behavior.

Jen.

Jen.

You need some media training girls.

You need some media training girls.

Come on your show or well.

Come on your show or well.

I know you're not experienced with podcasting, Jenny, but I just have to tell you that, like you know, sometimes you really just need to to be able to go with the flow, and you're gonna need to be able to answer these questions. You have to know for as this is your clearer first podcast to promote this book. You've never been on a podcast. We're gonna just or really we're trying to ease you into what we're doing. You a favor for all of your future podcasting goals, which I know you have.

I know you're not experienced with podcasting, Jenny, but I just have to tell you that, like you know, sometimes you really just need to to be able to go with the flow, and you're gonna need to be able to answer these questions. You have to know for as this is your clearer first podcast to promote this book. You've never been on a podcast. We're gonna just or really we're trying to ease you into what we're doing. You a favor for all of your future podcasting goals, which I know you have.

Yeah, this is a softball question.

Yeah, this is a softball question.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

You guys are doing so well, right, Okay, wait, So my elevator pitch and every time Jen asked me this question, which she has never asked me before, I get all flappy. So, in the last days of the Roman Empire, a brutal Gothic warlord and a hot mess potentially tipsy heroin forged a dangerous alliance to take down the Roman Empire.

You guys are doing so well, right, Okay, wait, So my elevator pitch and every time Jen asked me this question, which she has never asked me before, I get all flappy. So, in the last days of the Roman Empire, a brutal Gothic warlord and a hot mess potentially tipsy heroin forged a dangerous alliance to take down the Roman Empire.

So why do you think readers will love this book?

So why do you think readers will love this book?

Well, I think that I think that readers will love this book because it's a real enemy's to lovers, which means that these are two characters who really have a reason, you know, like to be enemies. Like they're from a sort of they exist on two opposite sides of this gulf of like you know, history and culture and what their people have you know, done to each other over the centuries. And they're both real big mad at each other right out of the gate, which I find hot, and I mean and they and they're at cross purposes personally with their own goals. And I'm not going to go into too much detail because I don't want to spoil it with you guys, but it is really fun that way. And I also think, you know, like their personalities are kind of are kind of sparky together, which I really enjoy. It's got a lot of fun things that I love, Like there's kind of a found family trope going on where my princess heroin Julia kind of finds belonging in a place she doesn't expect it. There's a lot of tipsiness. There's a lot of plotting, revolutions, tipsy, which I think is I think I try to have fun with it, you know, and I think that's why people will love it.

Well, I think that I think that readers will love this book because it's a real enemy's to lovers, which means that these are two characters who really have a reason, you know, like to be enemies. Like they're from a sort of they exist on two opposite sides of this gulf of like you know, history and culture and what their people have you know, done to each other over the centuries. And they're both real big mad at each other right out of the gate, which I find hot, and I mean and they and they're at cross purposes personally with their own goals. And I'm not going to go into too much detail because I don't want to spoil it with you guys, but it is really fun that way. And I also think, you know, like their personalities are kind of are kind of sparky together, which I really enjoy. It's got a lot of fun things that I love, Like there's kind of a found family trope going on where my princess heroin Julia kind of finds belonging in a place she doesn't expect it. There's a lot of tipsiness. There's a lot of plotting, revolutions, tipsy, which I think is I think I try to have fun with it, you know, and I think that's why people will love it.

I will say you wrote Tipsy very well. And another thing I know about you from the little time that we've spoken on this podcast is that you are not a big drinker of wine. So absolutely I can't say I've ever see you with a glass of Proco.

I will say you wrote Tipsy very well. And another thing I know about you from the little time that we've spoken on this podcast is that you are not a big drinker of wine. So absolutely I can't say I've ever see you with a glass of Proco.

On your hand.

On your hand.

And so, you know, how did you go about writing a Tipsy in such such a realistic way?

And so, you know, how did you go about writing a Tipsy in such such a realistic way?

Well? Live It might surprise you to hear that I enjoy imbibing a glass or two every so often, do you really? Yes?

Well? Live It might surprise you to hear that I enjoy imbibing a glass or two every so often, do you really? Yes?

Shocking? I thought you were a tea taller. I thought you never drank.

Shocking? I thought you were a tea taller. I thought you never drank.

I mean I think that I really. I wouldn't say that Julia is a self insert I want to make of that far. In fact, maybe Alaric is a self insert, you know what.

I mean I think that I really. I wouldn't say that Julia is a self insert I want to make of that far. In fact, maybe Alaric is a self insert, you know what.

But I think you're both of them. I think that's what makes it a great with two great characters, is that each of them are our you know, parts of you.

But I think you're both of them. I think that's what makes it a great with two great characters, is that each of them are our you know, parts of you.

Yeah, this book is me talking. Yes, that's what it is. But I think that I have kind of thought of it this way sometimes, where I'm like my heroin is based on several different and real life characters and you know, people in the ancient world, but she's there's also quite a bit of me circa I don't know, twenty fifteen running around Bushwick going to all the bars, like there's there's some of that too, you know.

Yeah, this book is me talking. Yes, that's what it is. But I think that I have kind of thought of it this way sometimes, where I'm like my heroin is based on several different and real life characters and you know, people in the ancient world, but she's there's also quite a bit of me circa I don't know, twenty fifteen running around Bushwick going to all the bars, like there's there's some of that too, you know.

I think it can be both. But okay, you actually legible question that I've been well that we've kind of know we excuse me, we haven't because we don't know each other, and you've never been on a podcast.

I think it can be both. But okay, you actually legible question that I've been well that we've kind of know we excuse me, we haven't because we don't know each other, and you've never been on a podcast.

That's right, we have and never met.

That's right, we have and never met.

Just in case I feel like i've I've had these dreams of conversations with you in the past, and so I would love to see if maybe there's a there's a hint of reality in those dreams. And so in those dreams you've You've talked a little bit about how you know this book is it's romanticy, so it does have those fantasy elements. But I also know not at all that that you are you know, knowledgeable on ancient history, because why would you be. But instead I think maybe you've you've learned a little bit for this book alone about ancient Rome. So how much of it is ancient is real ancient Rome? How much of it is your own fantastical imagination, like how concerned were you with that?

Just in case I feel like i've I've had these dreams of conversations with you in the past, and so I would love to see if maybe there's a there's a hint of reality in those dreams. And so in those dreams you've You've talked a little bit about how you know this book is it's romanticy, so it does have those fantasy elements. But I also know not at all that that you are you know, knowledgeable on ancient history, because why would you be. But instead I think maybe you've you've learned a little bit for this book alone about ancient Rome. So how much of it is ancient is real ancient Rome? How much of it is your own fantastical imagination, like how concerned were you with that?

Well, I like to refer to it as an occasionally true story, like yeah, good, yeah, I think that. What's funny about this? When I started writing this book, I knew basically next to nothing, you know, and I was just having a fun time and writing my own historical fan fiction, and I kind of figured this might. I would love to get this published someday. But I wasn't necessarily looking to write an extremely historical, historically accurate picture of what happened, because I wanted to make Alaric the Visigoths the hero of a romance novel, which in itself is a non historical concept.

Well, I like to refer to it as an occasionally true story, like yeah, good, yeah, I think that. What's funny about this? When I started writing this book, I knew basically next to nothing, you know, and I was just having a fun time and writing my own historical fan fiction, and I kind of figured this might. I would love to get this published someday. But I wasn't necessarily looking to write an extremely historical, historically accurate picture of what happened, because I wanted to make Alaric the Visigoths the hero of a romance novel, which in itself is a non historical concept.

So especially when you look at like any kind of images of him, sorry, I don't know, he's absolutely sexy in reality.

So especially when you look at like any kind of images of him, sorry, I don't know, he's absolutely sexy in reality.

I am.

I am.

I am going to say, yes, the world's best mustache. And I'm gonna say this, the image that frequently comes up and you google him is actually Aleric the Second, because I know that Jenny did her research and check that. However, I haven't found many images of Aleric the First. So I'm going to.

I am going to say, yes, the world's best mustache. And I'm gonna say this, the image that frequently comes up and you google him is actually Aleric the Second, because I know that Jenny did her research and check that. However, I haven't found many images of Aleric the First. So I'm going to.

Write a mustache. It's gonna be that glorious.

Write a mustache. It's gonna be that glorious.

Well, look if I'm going to write a mustache, give me that mustache. Okay, this is not entire question.

Well, look if I'm going to write a mustache, give me that mustache. Okay, this is not entire question.

Yeah no, but this it does leave to lead to another incredibly important question, and that is, can you remind me if if you're Aleric has a mustache?

Yeah no, but this it does leave to lead to another incredibly important question, and that is, can you remind me if if you're Aleric has a mustache?

No?

No?

No, great, great, just just checking. And that leads because of the historical accuracy.

No, great, great, just just checking. And that leads because of the historical accuracy.

Right, So that's your answer to the historical accuracy question.

Right, So that's your answer to the historical accuracy question.

It's not completely accurate because he does not have a mustache to ride.

It's not completely accurate because he does not have a mustache to ride.

Well, okay, in the book he doesn't. In the book, he doesn't have a mustache. In the picture that will come up when you google him, he does have a mustache. Is that picture actually of him?

Well, okay, in the book he doesn't. In the book, he doesn't have a mustache. In the picture that will come up when you google him, he does have a mustache. Is that picture actually of him?

No, So this week leads really nice Listen, he can have whatever you want. It's a romance novel. I'm not gonna slam anyone's kink in what they like.

No, So this week leads really nice Listen, he can have whatever you want. It's a romance novel. I'm not gonna slam anyone's kink in what they like.

Are barbarians quote unquote in the ancient Roman Empire associated with mustaches? Historically? Yes, mo triparthid answer moving, I need to.

Are barbarians quote unquote in the ancient Roman Empire associated with mustaches? Historically? Yes, mo triparthid answer moving, I need to.

Rain control of this interview back in, so.

Rain control of this interview back in, so.

You're the ideal person to do that. That blew out my microphone.

You're the ideal person to do that. That blew out my microphone.

Excuse me, I really don't appreciate you questioning my professionalism. If you do it one more time, I will have to contact your publicist and request that before you do any more interviews you get media training.

Excuse me, I really don't appreciate you questioning my professionalism. If you do it one more time, I will have to contact your publicist and request that before you do any more interviews you get media training.

Are you gonna fake me?

Are you gonna fake me?

This is this is really going off the rails.

This is this is really going off the rails.

And this is not the kind of literally five minutes in listen, this is not the kind of podcast I run it.

And this is not the kind of literally five minutes in listen, this is not the kind of podcast I run it.

This is not like that one time in.

This is not like that one time in.

The podcast where Brutus's white whose name I forget, but I'm gonna call her Portia literally said to Rudis, oh boy, get the horse, Fallace.

The podcast where Brutus's white whose name I forget, but I'm gonna call her Portia literally said to Rudis, oh boy, get the horse, Fallace.

I want to really talk this revolution out.

I want to really talk this revolution out.

I don't think that's historically attested.

I don't think that's historically attested.

Moving on, I want to get back to this question I had, so tell us where the idea for a.

Moving on, I want to get back to this question I had, so tell us where the idea for a.

Romance between Alarica, the Visigoths, and a Roman and a Roman princess came from?

Romance between Alarica, the Visigoths, and a Roman and a Roman princess came from?

Like, where is that from?

Like, where is that from?

It's from my head, Jen, Okay, but no, I mean that's obviously. But like, because like we understand how fiction works, Jenny, thank you, and the debut.

It's from my head, Jen, Okay, but no, I mean that's obviously. But like, because like we understand how fiction works, Jenny, thank you, and the debut.

Author, we're doing so well.

Author, we're doing so well.

Yes some of us have a degree in English, but no, but like, so my the original when I first started trying to write a novel, which has never come to fruition because you are the first debut author of fiction among us. But when I when it came to me, like I think, I swear, I just like maybe was just like browsing random Greek mythology and I found like some weird little thing between Cadmus and harmony, and I was like, oh, I'm obsessed with these characters. I'm obsessed with like writing a story about them. Like, but Alhaica of the Visigoths is truly like so random to me, So like, how how did you find Alaric? And why is why did he become like your guy of the mustache rides?

Yes some of us have a degree in English, but no, but like, so my the original when I first started trying to write a novel, which has never come to fruition because you are the first debut author of fiction among us. But when I when it came to me, like I think, I swear, I just like maybe was just like browsing random Greek mythology and I found like some weird little thing between Cadmus and harmony, and I was like, oh, I'm obsessed with these characters. I'm obsessed with like writing a story about them. Like, but Alhaica of the Visigoths is truly like so random to me, So like, how how did you find Alaric? And why is why did he become like your guy of the mustache rides?

Okay, yeah, why does he make a great hero?

Okay, yeah, why does he make a great hero?

It can't be because of his mustache, because you didn't write that into your book.

It can't be because of his mustache, because you didn't write that into your book.

You didn't. You have to pick something else.

You didn't. You have to pick something else.

So I it is it is not historically attested whether he had a mustache or not. We don't know what he looked like. But okay, so I do have a story about this. So I have a friend who I possibly, like, you know, one of my first friends. We met in preschool and she was over at my house one night and she is a Latin linguist and we were just talking about random historical things and she wrote this quote on a napkin, like she wrote this Latin phrase on a napkin, and then she translated it for me and it was I'm always bad at remembering this verbatim, but it was like, I grind you down with my bare hands, rome give up your weapons and hide. And it was just so like visceral, and you know, kind of like scary. And I was like, who is this and she's like, well, that's Alerica the Visigoths who sacked Room in four ten AD. And I was just like, who is this person? I must know everything about him? And then I just became obsessed with Alarica the Visigoths, And he has several other quotable things that he said.

So I it is it is not historically attested whether he had a mustache or not. We don't know what he looked like. But okay, so I do have a story about this. So I have a friend who I possibly, like, you know, one of my first friends. We met in preschool and she was over at my house one night and she is a Latin linguist and we were just talking about random historical things and she wrote this quote on a napkin, like she wrote this Latin phrase on a napkin, and then she translated it for me and it was I'm always bad at remembering this verbatim, but it was like, I grind you down with my bare hands, rome give up your weapons and hide. And it was just so like visceral, and you know, kind of like scary. And I was like, who is this and she's like, well, that's Alerica the Visigoths who sacked Room in four ten AD. And I was just like, who is this person? I must know everything about him? And then I just became obsessed with Alarica the Visigoths, And he has several other quotable things that he said.

I feel like there is.

I feel like there is.

An episode in our back catalog called stuff Aleric said. But I worked on with my my amazing co host, Jennifer Williamson.

An episode in our back catalog called stuff Aleric said. But I worked on with my my amazing co host, Jennifer Williamson.

Yes, I believe her name is Jennifer R. R. William Soon.

Yes, I believe her name is Jennifer R. R. William Soon.

I think it's Dutch. She has no relation to this person speaking.

I think it's Dutch. She has no relation to this person speaking.

No, none, none at all. Yeah. So I just I just became completely obsessed with Alaric of the Visigoths and decided I needed to know all about him. And at some point wrote our first podcast episode, which was which was called stuff. Alaric said, not the first.

No, none, none at all. Yeah. So I just I just became completely obsessed with Alaric of the Visigoths and decided I needed to know all about him. And at some point wrote our first podcast episode, which was which was called stuff. Alaric said, not the first.

I don't believe you wrote that. I believe my co host Jennifer R. R. William soon wrote it. She's out ill today.

I don't believe you wrote that. I believe my co host Jennifer R. R. William soon wrote it. She's out ill today.

She did want to meet you terribly, but unfortunately she's got the Nora virus.

She did want to meet you terribly, but unfortunately she's got the Nora virus.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just just couldn't work. Just couldn't work.

Just just couldn't work. Just couldn't work.

You know, she and I have never been seen in the same room together. Is it a coincidence?

You know, she and I have never been seen in the same room together. Is it a coincidence?

I don't guess.

I don't guess.

So.

So.

Yeah, So that's how it happened. And I was, you know, kind of just became obsessed with the time period and the person. And I think what I really love about the time period is how how much it was kind of it must have seemed like an apocalypse to the people living through it, like to the Romans, who, you know, their empire was crumbling, but also to the people living outside Rome, like the people who joined Alaric's coalition, because this was a period called the Migration Era, where there was so much upheaval and different groups moving to different places and coming into contract conflict with Rome a lot more because and and there's there have been lots of different reasons given for why the migration era happened. Some people think it was climate change, like the Huns moving down from like the Central Asian step, like all kinds of different things like that, but just like the the sort of like apocalyptic dark horizon of this time period seemed like such a great setting for a romance novel.

Yeah, So that's how it happened. And I was, you know, kind of just became obsessed with the time period and the person. And I think what I really love about the time period is how how much it was kind of it must have seemed like an apocalypse to the people living through it, like to the Romans, who, you know, their empire was crumbling, but also to the people living outside Rome, like the people who joined Alaric's coalition, because this was a period called the Migration Era, where there was so much upheaval and different groups moving to different places and coming into contract conflict with Rome a lot more because and and there's there have been lots of different reasons given for why the migration era happened. Some people think it was climate change, like the Huns moving down from like the Central Asian step, like all kinds of different things like that, but just like the the sort of like apocalyptic dark horizon of this time period seemed like such a great setting for a romance novel.

To me, yeah, I agree. And as someone who you know, I I'm never one to make things political, not ever, I almost never talk about current events. I've no, absolutely not no. But but you know what I would say if I was a person who might get political now, and then I would say that like, yeah, I mean, this was a time period where this empire that was too big, was unnecessarily big, was big just because they'd wanted to conquer everybody, and and then obviously no empire should be that big. Of course, no empire ever since Rome has been that big or that probblem oatic.

To me, yeah, I agree. And as someone who you know, I I'm never one to make things political, not ever, I almost never talk about current events. I've no, absolutely not no. But but you know what I would say if I was a person who might get political now, and then I would say that like, yeah, I mean, this was a time period where this empire that was too big, was unnecessarily big, was big just because they'd wanted to conquer everybody, and and then obviously no empire should be that big. Of course, no empire ever since Rome has been that big or that probblem oatic.

I think the British Empire would beg but.

I think the British Empire would beg but.

The joke, I think the American Empire would also beg to different, But that would also be the joke that's exactly right, is badly sorry for Palestine.

The joke, I think the American Empire would also beg to different, But that would also be the joke that's exactly right, is badly sorry for Palestine.

Absolutely. We've talked a little bit about Alaerica Visigoths who is her main hero.

Absolutely. We've talked a little bit about Alaerica Visigoths who is her main hero.

I want to delve into Julia. Julia is the female main character. She is very much a hot mess, which I relate to because hello, you can hear me right.

I want to delve into Julia. Julia is the female main character. She is very much a hot mess, which I relate to because hello, you can hear me right.

Now, were hosses. I don't know what you're talking about.

Now, were hosses. I don't know what you're talking about.

Can you tell us if there were any historical women who you based Julia on?

Can you tell us if there were any historical women who you based Julia on?

Yeah, so there were three. So one of my characters that I based Julia on was Julia the Elder. She's perhaps the original kind of template for Julia. She is, of course, the daughter of Augustus. She got exiled to Pandeityria for being too slutty.

Yeah, so there were three. So one of my characters that I based Julia on was Julia the Elder. She's perhaps the original kind of template for Julia. She is, of course, the daughter of Augustus. She got exiled to Pandeityria for being too slutty.

My favorite reason to be exiled, right respect?

My favorite reason to be exiled, right respect?

Hell yeah, respect.

Hell yeah, respect.

Kind of my my inspirite, get that. So that's like my kind of original couplet for her. The other one is Galla Placidia, who was a princess of Rome during the time of a tul of Alaric sacking, who was in Rome at the time of the penultimate Sack of Rome. Wound up being taken prisoner or just sort of trailing out of Rome with a bunch of other aristocratic you know, people who had been in there the whole time. So she'd been in the city during the siege, she got mixed up with the Goths, potentially joined them, potentially, you know, was kidnapped by them and married a tall Alex's right hand man.

Kind of my my inspirite, get that. So that's like my kind of original couplet for her. The other one is Galla Placidia, who was a princess of Rome during the time of a tul of Alaric sacking, who was in Rome at the time of the penultimate Sack of Rome. Wound up being taken prisoner or just sort of trailing out of Rome with a bunch of other aristocratic you know, people who had been in there the whole time. So she'd been in the city during the siege, she got mixed up with the Goths, potentially joined them, potentially, you know, was kidnapped by them and married a tall Alex's right hand man.

He wasn't just a marriage. Didn't she have the most impressive dowry ever?

He wasn't just a marriage. Didn't she have the most impressive dowry ever?

Yeah? So the dowry that she had there, Edward Gibbon goes into this in detail, and I love it, and I want to talk more about, you know, the Gothic culture of jewelry, because I think that really factors in here. So there the down please.

Yeah? So the dowry that she had there, Edward Gibbon goes into this in detail, and I love it, and I want to talk more about, you know, the Gothic culture of jewelry, because I think that really factors in here. So there the down please.

Tell me about it.

Tell me about it.

As our listeners know, I am a big fan of the shiny shinies. Like, if you could throw some jewelry and like knowledge about it at me, I'm gonna just swoon because I love my jewels, our girls.

As our listeners know, I am a big fan of the shiny shinies. Like, if you could throw some jewelry and like knowledge about it at me, I'm gonna just swoon because I love my jewels, our girls.

Yeah, I if you if you recall, we actually did talk about this in the Atomic Golf I excuse me, excuse me.

Yeah, I if you if you recall, we actually did talk about this in the Atomic Golf I excuse me, excuse me.

I talked about this with my co host Jennifer.

I talked about this with my co host Jennifer.

That's exactly right.

That's exactly right.

I have never talked about this.

I have never talked about this.

You're doing that, okay. So anyway, yeah, so then you all get statistic.

You're doing that, okay. So anyway, yeah, so then you all get statistic.

We are definitely two people were talking about Okay.

We are definitely two people were talking about Okay.

So anyhow, like the dowry of Galla Placidia. There was a let me think about this, there was a giant table that was made of one enormous precious gemstone with three hundred and sixty five legs, And I just I can't imagine how big this table would have but like I can't, I don't know what the shape of the table was, but imagine carrying that all up and down the Italian peninsula. But anyway, so there was this giant table and it had potentially three hundred and sixty five legs, just go with it. And it was made out of one entire precious metal precious stone, encrusted with other precious stones and gems and things. Not the only treasure. There were giant plates. The early Christians were super into giant plates the size of a wagon wheel that would have been one hundred million pounds, like silver and gold.

So anyhow, like the dowry of Galla Placidia. There was a let me think about this, there was a giant table that was made of one enormous precious gemstone with three hundred and sixty five legs, And I just I can't imagine how big this table would have but like I can't, I don't know what the shape of the table was, but imagine carrying that all up and down the Italian peninsula. But anyway, so there was this giant table and it had potentially three hundred and sixty five legs, just go with it. And it was made out of one entire precious metal precious stone, encrusted with other precious stones and gems and things. Not the only treasure. There were giant plates. The early Christians were super into giant plates the size of a wagon wheel that would have been one hundred million pounds, like silver and gold.

Honestly, the Christians have always been fucking weird.

Honestly, the Christians have always been fucking weird.

Yeah, there was a lot of that. So, like I feel like the Goths in particular, there was a tradition where the man gives the woman a dowry, right and a.

Yeah, there was a lot of that. So, like I feel like the Goths in particular, there was a tradition where the man gives the woman a dowry, right and a.

Tall Yeah, as he should if he can take care.

Tall Yeah, as he should if he can take care.

Of me, that is reasonable. Yeah, that's like literally, if we have to have a dowry like that's quite literally how it should be agreed.

Of me, that is reasonable. Yeah, that's like literally, if we have to have a dowry like that's quite literally how it should be agreed.

It also kind of it's an indicator that the woman had more power in the relationship than you would originally think because she gets all this wealth in it. I guess you.

It also kind of it's an indicator that the woman had more power in the relationship than you would originally think because she gets all this wealth in it. I guess you.

Think any bleedover from the ancient like Glic and Celtic traditions where the woman were whoever brought more into the marriage was the sort of elevated partner because they had more wealth.

Think any bleedover from the ancient like Glic and Celtic traditions where the woman were whoever brought more into the marriage was the sort of elevated partner because they had more wealth.

Well, I think it's different because in the Celtic tradition the man and the woman did both bring a dowry, and whoever it was kind of you know, I don't think it always had to be like a competition. But of course in the cattle ry of Coolie between Mave and Alil, as everybody knows, it did become one. So that's basically the dowry of Gallapla city. It was legendary in its time. It wound up being left in a palace somewhere in Spain and then divided up by various Gothic rulers who came in after the Franks got their hands on it, some other people maybe the vandals, I don't know, and people were talking about things from this dowry up until the seven hundreds a D. I believe or something like that. Yeah, wow, famous, And when would this have happened?

Well, I think it's different because in the Celtic tradition the man and the woman did both bring a dowry, and whoever it was kind of you know, I don't think it always had to be like a competition. But of course in the cattle ry of Coolie between Mave and Alil, as everybody knows, it did become one. So that's basically the dowry of Gallapla city. It was legendary in its time. It wound up being left in a palace somewhere in Spain and then divided up by various Gothic rulers who came in after the Franks got their hands on it, some other people maybe the vandals, I don't know, and people were talking about things from this dowry up until the seven hundreds a D. I believe or something like that. Yeah, wow, famous, And when would this have happened?

When would this dowry have happened?

When would this dowry have happened?

Well, the dowry was all like it was a collection of basically booty that Alaric would have collected while sacking Greece and Rome.

Well, the dowry was all like it was a collection of basically booty that Alaric would have collected while sacking Greece and Rome.

Okay, so Gala Pacidia's dowry was legendary. It happened.

Okay, so Gala Pacidia's dowry was legendary. It happened.

It was probably given from a tall to Galla Placidia, who was a you know, princess daughter of Rome.

It was probably given from a tall to Galla Placidia, who was a you know, princess daughter of Rome.

One of the inspirations for Joy.

One of the inspirations for Joy.

Sometime in the four hundreds a d.

Sometime in the four hundreds a d.

And it was still being it was still being talked, still being talked about in the seven hundreds eighty. That's a long that's like, you know what, three hundred years in between, there were still talking about how epic this dowry was.

And it was still being it was still being talked, still being talked about in the seven hundreds eighty. That's a long that's like, you know what, three hundred years in between, there were still talking about how epic this dowry was.

Yeah, then dividing it up between themselves. So there was still a lot by the seven hundreds a D. And So who was the the third woman? Oh, this is one of my favorites, right, So the third woman is Anria, who is the daughter of Galla Placidia. And what I love about Anoia is that she was going to have an arranged marriage to I don't know, some asshole that she didn't like, and she did not want to marry. That's right, And so what she did I endure this so much, was.

Yeah, then dividing it up between themselves. So there was still a lot by the seven hundreds a D. And So who was the the third woman? Oh, this is one of my favorites, right, So the third woman is Anria, who is the daughter of Galla Placidia. And what I love about Anoia is that she was going to have an arranged marriage to I don't know, some asshole that she didn't like, and she did not want to marry. That's right, And so what she did I endure this so much, was.

She it's the best story, and like, it's one of my favorite stories in all of ancient hims.

She it's the best story, and like, it's one of my favorite stories in all of ancient hims.

Say let me tell it.

Say let me tell it.

Okay, So, okay, okay, Jenny Williamson on my podcast, Demanding Things.

Okay, So, okay, okay, Jenny Williamson on my podcast, Demanding Things.

So she dashed off a letter to Attila the Hun saying come and get me, and she basically proposed to him. So, Attila the Hun had been sacking. I don't know where he was. He wasn't in Rome yet. I think he was sacking around Greece or whatever, somewhere in eastern Europe. I'm not sure. I did a whole episode on this when I where. I knew what he was doing, but I don't know. So so she dashed off this message, and Attila the Hun immediately used this as a pretext to invade Rome because he was supposed to be engaged to Honoria, which meant that he now was owed half the Roman Empire as some kind of a dowry or inheritance or something like that. So so she was Galliplacitia's daughter. And it's really interesting because Galiplacitia, I mean, you can argue about whether a Tall and Gallaplacidia was a love match. It's presented that way in a lot of the sources. And I kind of went with that initially when I was doing the research on this, because I really loved the idea that maybe everything didn't suck for all women all the.

So she dashed off a letter to Attila the Hun saying come and get me, and she basically proposed to him. So, Attila the Hun had been sacking. I don't know where he was. He wasn't in Rome yet. I think he was sacking around Greece or whatever, somewhere in eastern Europe. I'm not sure. I did a whole episode on this when I where. I knew what he was doing, but I don't know. So so she dashed off this message, and Attila the Hun immediately used this as a pretext to invade Rome because he was supposed to be engaged to Honoria, which meant that he now was owed half the Roman Empire as some kind of a dowry or inheritance or something like that. So so she was Galliplacitia's daughter. And it's really interesting because Galiplacitia, I mean, you can argue about whether a Tall and Gallaplacidia was a love match. It's presented that way in a lot of the sources. And I kind of went with that initially when I was doing the research on this, because I really loved the idea that maybe everything didn't suck for all women all the.

Time I was because.

Time I was because.

So I was just like, oh my god, maybe she and a Tap loved each other. Maybe it was just this beautiful love match. But then Atop got assassinated like two years after they met, and she went back to Rome and she married this guy named Costantious, who she hated, and that's who she had Honoria with. So she was the daughter of Gallaplacidia and Constantious. But then Honoria also wanted to marry someone she didn't hate, and Galliplacity was like, absolutely not, I'm going to force you to marry this guy. So I kind of really love it that Honoria was like, well, my mom got to have a hot affair with like a goth. Maybe I can have a hot affair with a goth. And it wouldn't be that weird to call an a goth, because the ancient Romans used that word to, you know, kind of describe everybody who they would have categorized as a barbarian at different times.

So I was just like, oh my god, maybe she and a Tap loved each other. Maybe it was just this beautiful love match. But then Atop got assassinated like two years after they met, and she went back to Rome and she married this guy named Costantious, who she hated, and that's who she had Honoria with. So she was the daughter of Gallaplacidia and Constantious. But then Honoria also wanted to marry someone she didn't hate, and Galliplacity was like, absolutely not, I'm going to force you to marry this guy. So I kind of really love it that Honoria was like, well, my mom got to have a hot affair with like a goth. Maybe I can have a hot affair with a goth. And it wouldn't be that weird to call an a goth, because the ancient Romans used that word to, you know, kind of describe everybody who they would have categorized as a barbarian at different times.

Was I gonna say, Okay, I was gonna say, was that like kind of almost a barbarian style term where it just sort of means people who are in Romans?

Was I gonna say, Okay, I was gonna say, was that like kind of almost a barbarian style term where it just sort of means people who are in Romans?

Absolutely? And also the word Scythian, like they would have called the Huns. The Hunts were basically Scythian, you know.

Absolutely? And also the word Scythian, like they would have called the Huns. The Hunts were basically Scythian, you know.

Horse right, well, I mean, and then their defense they were coming from the other side.

Horse right, well, I mean, and then their defense they were coming from the other side.

Absolutely different people than who the Goths were. But the way that the Romans referred to to these different peoples they would have called them that those things interchangeably. So I'm not saying Annoya was thinking of this as like, oh, this is a Goth and that is a Goth, but theoretically some of the Romans were. But anyway, so she's like, in my head, Honoria was this this kind of this rebel, you know, And there's this one period in her life where and this is a precursor to when she sends a message to Attila the Hun to ask him to come and get her. But that really explains a lot to me. And so when she was like fifteen or sixteen, she had sex with like her chamberlain or something and got pregnant with him and got severely punished for it by her parents, sending her off to there's actually conflicting information about where they sent her to, Like it could have been a nunnery, but in the version I like, it's to Constantinople, the Eastern Roman Empire, which at that time was a lot more Christian.

Absolutely different people than who the Goths were. But the way that the Romans referred to to these different peoples they would have called them that those things interchangeably. So I'm not saying Annoya was thinking of this as like, oh, this is a Goth and that is a Goth, but theoretically some of the Romans were. But anyway, so she's like, in my head, Honoria was this this kind of this rebel, you know, And there's this one period in her life where and this is a precursor to when she sends a message to Attila the Hun to ask him to come and get her. But that really explains a lot to me. And so when she was like fifteen or sixteen, she had sex with like her chamberlain or something and got pregnant with him and got severely punished for it by her parents, sending her off to there's actually conflicting information about where they sent her to, Like it could have been a nunnery, but in the version I like, it's to Constantinople, the Eastern Roman Empire, which at that time was a lot more Christian.

Which is in Istanbul's com Yeah, so.

Which is in Istanbul's com Yeah, so.

She would have been in Constantinople and at that time it was a much more Christian and sort of repressive and very pious court where she would have been made to get in line right, like pray a lot and live this very restricted life. And in that time period, there was this time when Attila the Hun was bearing down on Constantinople and he was going to sack the city, and the walls had been destroyed by an earthquake, and all the people, like the Huns were like two weeks away, they were not very far away, and they go very fast on their horses, right, So like this is an emergency. The whole the whole city very fast their horses. This is one of the things that made the Hunts so terrifying is how fast they go.

She would have been in Constantinople and at that time it was a much more Christian and sort of repressive and very pious court where she would have been made to get in line right, like pray a lot and live this very restricted life. And in that time period, there was this time when Attila the Hun was bearing down on Constantinople and he was going to sack the city, and the walls had been destroyed by an earthquake, and all the people, like the Huns were like two weeks away, they were not very far away, and they go very fast on their horses, right, So like this is an emergency. The whole the whole city very fast their horses. This is one of the things that made the Hunts so terrifying is how fast they go.

So theses, Yeah.

So theses, Yeah.

It's how fast they were able to actually mount a siege and arrive at your city.

It's how fast they were able to actually mount a siege and arrive at your city.

They were technically that good of sieges. But these people didn't know this, so they so they were all like the whole city had to rally to rebuild these walls before the Huns got there and burned everything and killed everybody and sacked the city, and it's an emergency and everybody had to like calm together. And I just imagine Anora in this time period looking at these walls going up, and everybody else around her is praying for the walls to rise, and she's praying for Atila to hurry because she wants this world burnt down. So I just that's that's what like, that's what I imagine about her. And I think I wrote an intro to that episode about that. I mean, I didn't write it, I just am aware that it was written.

They were technically that good of sieges. But these people didn't know this, so they so they were all like the whole city had to rally to rebuild these walls before the Huns got there and burned everything and killed everybody and sacked the city, and it's an emergency and everybody had to like calm together. And I just imagine Anora in this time period looking at these walls going up, and everybody else around her is praying for the walls to rise, and she's praying for Atila to hurry because she wants this world burnt down. So I just that's that's what like, that's what I imagine about her. And I think I wrote an intro to that episode about that. I mean, I didn't write it, I just am aware that it was written.

Yeah, Jennifer, So yeah, So that that is kind of my sort of little fan fiction about an Area, is that she just she just felt extremely constrained by the world around her and what they wanted to force her into, including her own mom, who.

Yeah, Jennifer, So yeah, So that that is kind of my sort of little fan fiction about an Area, is that she just she just felt extremely constrained by the world around her and what they wanted to force her into, including her own mom, who.

Got to have her hot affair with a with a quote unquote barbarian, So why can't she have one? So she's like, all right, well, I'm gonna, you know, message Attila and see if he is down to clown. Yeah. She basically like texted him. She's like, you up, always up.

Got to have her hot affair with a with a quote unquote barbarian, So why can't she have one? So she's like, all right, well, I'm gonna, you know, message Attila and see if he is down to clown. Yeah. She basically like texted him. She's like, you up, always up.

So we've talked about some of the real historical figures who inspired you, Miss Williamson. Can you talk about the troops readers can expect in any of my dreams? I know that previously on our book club, I can't talk about live and talk about what you've had on your podcast.

So we've talked about some of the real historical figures who inspired you, Miss Williamson. Can you talk about the troops readers can expect in any of my dreams? I know that previously on our book club, I can't talk about live and talk about what you've had on your podcast.

We've had a lot of things like grumpy and Sunshine, enemies to lovers. I mean I loved what I.

We've had a lot of things like grumpy and Sunshine, enemies to lovers. I mean I loved what I.

Was already ready before you talked about what.

Was already ready before you talked about what.

Can we expect here?

Can we expect here?

I actually want to ask you guys that too, because I know what the tropes are. But I also as readers yourselves, what troops interest you in this book?

I actually want to ask you guys that too, because I know what the tropes are. But I also as readers yourselves, what troops interest you in this book?

I mean I know so I think of them in a lot of ways of you and I sharing tropes because I wrote my novel, I called it just like a Trophy Cupid, and Psyched Psyche. When I first started writing it, so to me, I was just like, how many fun romance novel tropes can I jam into this novel in a in a way, And so I was kind of noticing yours as we went. Also because you read my book around the same time as I was.

I mean I know so I think of them in a lot of ways of you and I sharing tropes because I wrote my novel, I called it just like a Trophy Cupid, and Psyched Psyche. When I first started writing it, so to me, I was just like, how many fun romance novel tropes can I jam into this novel in a in a way, And so I was kind of noticing yours as we went. Also because you read my book around the same time as I was.

That was fun. Yeah.

That was fun. Yeah.

So I mean, I love like, I'll go so deep into the tropes, but I mean I'll take I'll take all of them. But the enemies to Lovers was it was pretty great. The grumpy Sunshine I think also applies, except she's not really Sunshine, but kind of they're both both grumpy and both suns Yeah, in different ways. Yeah, the other moments of each for both.

So I mean, I love like, I'll go so deep into the tropes, but I mean I'll take I'll take all of them. But the enemies to Lovers was it was pretty great. The grumpy Sunshine I think also applies, except she's not really Sunshine, but kind of they're both both grumpy and both suns Yeah, in different ways. Yeah, the other moments of each for both.

You definitely have some of my favorite tropes, which are forced proximity enemies.

You definitely have some of my favorite tropes, which are forced proximity enemies.

To lovers.

To lovers.

Sharing that.

Sharing that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

My co host Jennifer R. R. William Soon, who's a very horsey girl, really well she's a big fan of like just one horse, and I think you do that quite well here.

My co host Jennifer R. R. William Soon, who's a very horsey girl, really well she's a big fan of like just one horse, and I think you do that quite well here.

You've got quite a bit of horse representation.

You've got quite a bit of horse representation.

Thank you. I'm glad you notice.

Thank you. I'm glad you notice.

This isn't a romance tripe, but it's one of my favorite tripes. You find in fantasy, which is found family, where you find yourself amongst others and you have a chosen family. I really love how you've done that. Amongst your characters, You've got the hero and heroin, but you also have your heroine who for reasons decides what she's going to do is I don't want to say, seduce his friends, but definitely like encourage his friends to be her friends, to.

This isn't a romance tripe, but it's one of my favorite tripes. You find in fantasy, which is found family, where you find yourself amongst others and you have a chosen family. I really love how you've done that. Amongst your characters, You've got the hero and heroin, but you also have your heroine who for reasons decides what she's going to do is I don't want to say, seduce his friends, but definitely like encourage his friends to be her friends, to.

Aggravate the hero. You have a lot of aggregate.

Aggravate the hero. You have a lot of aggregate.

Oh, that's done very well.

Oh, that's done very well.

Yeah, I will say that it's almost like I remember that when you're talking about it with someone, but not you couldn't have been me.

Yeah, I will say that it's almost like I remember that when you're talking about it with someone, but not you couldn't have been me.

No, never hurt. But I mean, and I will say like, and again this is not a question, this is just me hyping it up. But I and also mostly I'll admit this is me hyping it up from the position of I don't think I could write like this, so I'm jealous. But I do think your side characters you're sort of just peripheral every character who isn't you know, Julian and Alaric, Like, I think I think you did them incredibly well in a way that I really enjoyed. And I think that you know that's really important, but it also can be rare in works, and so like, the twins are the ones I'm thinking of most, Like I think you really you did great work on Like, yeah, the side character twins.

No, never hurt. But I mean, and I will say like, and again this is not a question, this is just me hyping it up. But I and also mostly I'll admit this is me hyping it up from the position of I don't think I could write like this, so I'm jealous. But I do think your side characters you're sort of just peripheral every character who isn't you know, Julian and Alaric, Like, I think I think you did them incredibly well in a way that I really enjoyed. And I think that you know that's really important, but it also can be rare in works, and so like, the twins are the ones I'm thinking of most, Like I think you really you did great work on Like, yeah, the side character twins.

The twins for those of you who don't know, are in Enemy of My Dreams. Alaric has kind of this adoptive children. He is like a like a lone wolf, and he's got these two cubs. They are named Horsa and Hengist, and while he is not blood related to them, he sort of raises them from about three until fifteen in this book. And it's a really great dynamic that.

The twins for those of you who don't know, are in Enemy of My Dreams. Alaric has kind of this adoptive children. He is like a like a lone wolf, and he's got these two cubs. They are named Horsa and Hengist, and while he is not blood related to them, he sort of raises them from about three until fifteen in this book. And it's a really great dynamic that.

You have the lone wolf and cub.

You have the lone wolf and cub.

You don't get to see a lot, and so it was really great seeing it reflected here in this romance.

You don't get to see a lot, and so it was really great seeing it reflected here in this romance.

Thank you also, men who men who have those types of relationships. I think, I mean, I say this a lot that I really prefer fictional men. I am Sam, a straight woman who unfortunately just doesn't like real ones all that much.

Thank you also, men who men who have those types of relationships. I think, I mean, I say this a lot that I really prefer fictional men. I am Sam, a straight woman who unfortunately just doesn't like real ones all that much.

And yeah, I can understand that.

And yeah, I can understand that.

Yeah, yeah, I just you know, they have They've never impressed me, but fictional fictional are great. And I think though that having that kind of relationship, like I think I think with a Larak, you really you handled him well in that, like he is like big and gruff and scary and hot, but also know in all those good ways, he's like a very endearing, very warm character. And I think that's hard to do sometimes, to kind of juggle those Yeah, I think that for me, like you have to.

Yeah, yeah, I just you know, they have They've never impressed me, but fictional fictional are great. And I think though that having that kind of relationship, like I think I think with a Larak, you really you handled him well in that, like he is like big and gruff and scary and hot, but also know in all those good ways, he's like a very endearing, very warm character. And I think that's hard to do sometimes, to kind of juggle those Yeah, I think that for me, like you have to.

I mean, there has to be something about masculinity that you love if you're going to write a heatero romance, like, there has to be yeah.

I mean, there has to be something about masculinity that you love if you're going to write a heatero romance, like, there has to be yeah.

Yeah, and it's usually not realistic masculinity.

Yeah, and it's usually not realistic masculinity.

I want to date a real, actual human man, or do I want to date a fictional man written by a woman? Question Mark?

I want to date a real, actual human man, or do I want to date a fictional man written by a woman? Question Mark?

That's what I want.

That's what I want.

But like I feel like, you know, Alaric to me is a version of something I kind of think of as like sort of you know, old oak tree masculinity, where it's like.

But like I feel like, you know, Alaric to me is a version of something I kind of think of as like sort of you know, old oak tree masculinity, where it's like.

Old oak tree.

Old oak tree.

Yeah, I've never heard that term before, but I really love it.

Yeah, I've never heard that term before, but I really love it.

You should coin it.

You should coin it.

Yeah, I'm doing it now.

Yeah, I'm doing it now.

Like I kind of see it as like an old like you know, grain of wood, Like it's deep and strong and kind of gnarly and scar and you can build furniture out of it and it's stoic. But and it's not an asshole, tall, strong, and silent type, you know.

Like I kind of see it as like an old like you know, grain of wood, Like it's deep and strong and kind of gnarly and scar and you can build furniture out of it and it's stoic. But and it's not an asshole, tall, strong, and silent type, you know.

Okay, So your book is called Enemy of My Dreams and just.

Okay, So your book is called Enemy of My Dreams and just.

One of the greatest titles ever in existence. And I'm so glad you like it. Yes, did I did? I tell you the story of how it came about. No, tell it again, because now we're on microphone and listeners. And again, I've never met you before, so let's keep that right.

One of the greatest titles ever in existence. And I'm so glad you like it. Yes, did I did? I tell you the story of how it came about. No, tell it again, because now we're on microphone and listeners. And again, I've never met you before, so let's keep that right.

So I've never met you before, so you've never heard this story. So it took me. I know I've said this many times on Mike before. It took me roughly eight years to write this book.

So I've never met you before, so you've never heard this story. So it took me. I know I've said this many times on Mike before. It took me roughly eight years to write this book.

But again, not on the podcast.

But again, not on the podcast.

I've never been on a podcast. I'm just on various mics.

I've never been on a podcast. I'm just on various mics.

Keep it going for an hour and a half inch.

Keep it going for an hour and a half inch.

Can't pretend to for my hair brush that I was pretending with a microphone.

Can't pretend to for my hair brush that I was pretending with a microphone.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

So I have it took me like eight years to write this book, like it took me a very very long time. And the entire time I did not know the title, didn't know what the title was, no idea. People would occasionally ask what the title was, and I would have a little bit of an anxiety attack because I was like, I don't know, and so finally I was like, right, I have to actually have a title at some point. And so a friend of mine, Aaron in New York, she was like, let's do this and we will figure out the title to your book. And I'm like, I don't know, erin, it's been eight years. I don't know if I'll ever think of a title to this book. And she's like, let's just figure it out. So we went to drag Brunch in my neighborhood. As should.

So I have it took me like eight years to write this book, like it took me a very very long time. And the entire time I did not know the title, didn't know what the title was, no idea. People would occasionally ask what the title was, and I would have a little bit of an anxiety attack because I was like, I don't know, and so finally I was like, right, I have to actually have a title at some point. And so a friend of mine, Aaron in New York, she was like, let's do this and we will figure out the title to your book. And I'm like, I don't know, erin, it's been eight years. I don't know if I'll ever think of a title to this book. And she's like, let's just figure it out. So we went to drag Brunch in my neighborhood. As should.

I mean, there is so much creativity and their authenticity and just so much to be learned from going to drag Brunch.

I mean, there is so much creativity and their authenticity and just so much to be learned from going to drag Brunch.

I agree, I encourage you all to do it.

I agree, I encourage you all to do it.

Yeah, the drag Brunch was just a font of creativity and really inspiring, and Aaron and I had a really good time and thought of this title and it was awesome.

Yeah, the drag Brunch was just a font of creativity and really inspiring, and Aaron and I had a really good time and thought of this title and it was awesome.

It's just like I think I love it most because my love of romance novels comes from the tropes and the predictability, but like in a way that's not predictable, you know, Like I think a lot of people complain about romance novels for those same reasons. They're like, oh, it's you know the tropes are so you know you see them coming or whatever, but it's like, yes, and that is the joy. Yeah, Like I love reading a romance novel where I know that I'm going to have this whole wild ride, which with tropes that I find, you know, and like enjoyable, and also there's gonna be a happy ending. And I think that that's that's the joy of reading romance novels, particularly when the world is on fire, is like I would like to know that there's just gonna be nice things, and if they're slightly predictable, I'm yeah, I.

It's just like I think I love it most because my love of romance novels comes from the tropes and the predictability, but like in a way that's not predictable, you know, Like I think a lot of people complain about romance novels for those same reasons. They're like, oh, it's you know the tropes are so you know you see them coming or whatever, but it's like, yes, and that is the joy. Yeah, Like I love reading a romance novel where I know that I'm going to have this whole wild ride, which with tropes that I find, you know, and like enjoyable, and also there's gonna be a happy ending. And I think that that's that's the joy of reading romance novels, particularly when the world is on fire, is like I would like to know that there's just gonna be nice things, and if they're slightly predictable, I'm yeah, I.

Think so too. Like I think that you know, I when I wrote my book, I wasn't thinking about what tropes I was using. I just kind of wrote it and then figured it out backwards.

Think so too. Like I think that you know, I when I wrote my book, I wasn't thinking about what tropes I was using. I just kind of wrote it and then figured it out backwards.

Well, you wrote it as somebody who And again I've never met you before, but I know somehow, just through through knowledge about you as an author, that like you grew up reading and those very specific types of romance novels. And so I think that comes from Natthewa.

Well, you wrote it as somebody who And again I've never met you before, but I know somehow, just through through knowledge about you as an author, that like you grew up reading and those very specific types of romance novels. And so I think that comes from Natthewa.

Yeah, I was gonna say this, This title to me evokes.

Yeah, I was gonna say this, This title to me evokes.

A lot of those like early nineties eighties like Ashes in the Wind and like.

A lot of those like early nineties eighties like Ashes in the Wind and like.

Really bodice rippery historical fiction, and I love that because I don't think we're seeing that as much in romance anymore.