What does a dispute about foolishness have to do with him? If right and wrong are clear to all, who was ever more senseless than this man? Because he never weighed the justice of the case, nor appealed to the universal law of Hellas. For when Agamemnon breathed his last, struck on his head by my daughter, a most foul deed which I will never defend, he should have brought a charge against his mother and inflicted a holy penalty for bloodshed, banishing her from his house. Thus he would have gained moderation instead of calamity, keeping strictly to the law and showing his piety as well as it is, he has come into the same fate as his mother, For though he had just caused for thinking her a wicked woman, he has become more wicked by murdering her. I will ask you menelais just one question. If a man's wedded wife should kill him, and his son in turn will kill his mother in revenge, next to the avenger's son to xpiate this murder will commit another. Where will the chain of horrors end? Our forefathers settle these matters the right way. They forbade anyone with blood upon his hands to appear in their sight or cross their path. But they purified him by exile. They did not kill him in revenge. Otherwise, someone by taking the pollution last upon his hands, is always going to be liable to have his own blood shed. Now I hate wicked women, especially my daughter who killed her husband. Helen too, your own wife. I will never command, nor would I even speak to her. And I do not envy you a voyage to Troy for a worthless woman. But the law I will defend with all my might to put an end to this brutal spirit of murder, which is always the ruin of countries and cities alike. Heh, hi, hello, lovely to have you here. This is let's talk about Mitts baby, and I am liv She just wants to talk about Eurippides forever, but knows you all want some variety, so she promises to mix it up. After this series, maybe we'll see God's I love Eurippides because he is perfect. We are back again with more of Euripides as arresties. One of the most unique takes on the story of that cursed House of Atrius, the murders of Agamemnon and then Clydemnestra after the Trojan War. Just like last week, that long quote at the top, which was a speech that we will get to whoo and that I just couldn't help myself from reading, is a translation by Coleridge, whereas the rest of the quotes in this episode are from the incredible Anne Carson's translation, which I cannot read entire speeches from that addition too. It's called an Oristaiah, and it's wonderful because she uses one play from each tragedian, because we have this unique thing where this is the one story where all three tragedians have plays that survive that cover it. So in this edition it has Eschylus, Agamemnon, Sophocles is Electra, and then Euripides is Orestes. I highly recommend it's a great translation to remind you all where we left off. Orestes and Electra, the son and daughter of Agamemnon and Clydemnestra, have murdered Clydemnestra and retribution for her murder of their father Agamemnon. Though Orestes was the one who physically killed his mother, Electra was complicit in her own way, and so she holds her own grief and guilt along with him, though ultimately both they'll feel as though they did the right thing in killing their mother because they see their murder of their father as the worse of the crimes. Orestes, for his part in the physical act, has been hounded by the furies, who they called the humanities the kindly Ones, because humans take great care not to use the name of the Furies their true name, the Arenaways, instead using this euphemistic humanities. But it's not just the humanities that Orestes has to deal with. The people of Argos are set to convene later that day and vote on whether or not to stone Orestes and Electra to death for what they've done, but for now, he and Electra are just waiting. Of course, they're not alone. Helen is there an Argos with the siblings, along with her daughter Hermione, who is living at the palace during the war under Clytemnestra's care, and Mentelais too has joined them at this city, though he's only spoken to Arrestes so far. Metelais is, as much as has been made clear up to this point, sympathetic of Orestes, plate he certainly didn't mind seeing Clydemnestra killed for what she did to his brother. And finally, we ended last week's episode with the reveal that another important man was joining them on stage. Tindarius, father of Helen and Clydemnestra, husband of Leda, and he's wearing black in mourning for his daughter. It's the chorus of Argive women who have pointed this out as he approaches, and at that approach, Orestes is ready to panic. This is episode two O six, setting the house ablaze, not using fire Euripides's Orestes Part two. Tyndarius joins the stage and speaks to the chorus. He's asking them where Menelaius is, his son in law. He explains that he was just at his daughter's grave pouring libations for Clydemnestra, when he heard that Menelaus and Helen had arrived there in Argos too. Of course, he doesn't need the chorus to show him Mentelius, as he's also there on stage, where Tyndarius seemingly hasn't noticed him. Same with Orestes, he hasn't yet seen him. Metelius speaks first, showing himself to Tyndarius with a kind word of greeting. But before Tyndarius can say more than a quickkiloe to his son in law, he spots Orestes. Quote, here is the mother killer, snaking about in front of the house. Look at him, how he drips unhealth shudder object. Tyndarius seems to expect Metelius to side with him, to see Orestes as this murderer, deserving only of hatred. But Menelius says, quote, he is the son of my beloved brother. There are so many family dynamics at play here, two brothers married to two sisters, where so much shit goes down. It makes this particular story of familial murder so much more interesting. Brothers again, married sisters. Marriage and in laws don't change the relationships between siblings, and so Metelius is more concerned with the death of Agamemnon than he is the death of Clytemnestra, and can anyone blame him? Tyndarius, though, can only see the horror in what Arrestes has done. He questions whether Metelius thinks that he's anything like his father, like Agamemnon, the great hero of the Trojan War. At least, I mean that's how these men see Agamemnon, I of course have a different opinion. Metelias says that Orestes is like his father, Yes, just unfortunate. He confirms, though, that he has an obligation to his nephew. He doesn't say it out right, but the implication is there. A Rustes might have killed Tyndarius's daughter, but he did it because Tyndarius's daughter killed Metelius's brother. Tindarius tells Metelius bluntly, quote, your time in the East has barbarized you, to which Metelius replies, quote, it was always Greek to respect one's kin. H so much to unpack here. I know I explained this so often, but I never know who is coming to these episodes and what they do and do not know. So let me remind you all again the word barbarian in ancient Greek just means that one is not Greek, but also it is still a very judge. By spending so much time in Troy in the East, Tyndarius claims that Metelius himself has become this barbarian, But, like Mentelias says, the Greeks always had a specific way of dealing with those who murdered their family members, or rather the death of family members broadly, Metelius is clear he's more tied to his brother and thus his brother's son than his sister in law and her death. The two go back and forth when it comes to this, Tendarius isn't letting up, and neither is Metelius. They throw barbes, accuse each other if not respecting laws of getting stupider an old age. Then Tindarius launches into a speech explaining himself. This is the speech I read at the top. He rejects the idea that Metelius suggested that Orestes was acting smart in what he did. No, he says smart would have been to punish Clytemnestra for what she did, which Tyndarius agrees was horrific and wrong, but that she should have been punished the right way, cast out, sent into exile. That murder shouldn't be met with more murder quote, but as things are now, he's taken on board the same devils as she. He was right to think her evil, but this murder makes him more to blame. Then Tindarius presents this situation to Metelius for him to think about. What if one day Orestes his wife kills him and then their son kills her, and then his son kills another and returned led will it and how long will it continue? The question is both valid in terms of the law and what is right, but also it reminds the audience of the curse on Mentelais's own family, like Tantalus killed Pelops, and when Pelops was returned to life by the gods, he too killed another. And then his son Atrius killed Dieses's children, and it kept going and going all the way down to Orestes now having killed his mother, who killed his father, who killed his sister. He's right, where will it end? And for all Tandarius just had some very valid points about right and wrong and murder and retribution, revenge and everything that it contains. He then says, quote, now me, I despise impure women in the first place, my daughter who slew her husband, and this helen of yours. I won't even mention you launched a thousand ships for that. Yes, those were all things that I read in the whole speech at the top, but the are in Carson's translations in there better, so you know, don't go thinking to Darius is just a man who loved his daughters and wants to defend that he seems more interested in the crime that Arrestes committed than the actual murder of his daughter. He does, however, turn to Arrestes now and asks him very specifically, how could he do it, how he felt when Clytemnestra begged him to spare her life begged for mercy quote At any rate, it's obvious the gods hate you. You're paying off your mother's blood in bouts of lunacy. He finishes his speech by telling Metelius very clearly, don't go against the gods, don't go against the divine laws. Don't help your nephew after what he has done. Let Argos do what they're going to do. Let them kill him for the murder. His last lines are quote, I'm a fortunate man in other ways, but not in daughters. There I struck out, Oh Tenarius. Orestes is ready to defend himself against Tyndarus's words. He won't pretend that what he did to his mother wasn't bad, wasn't wrong, But he also won't pretend as though he didn't have good reason to do it. Honestly, normally, I would be way more deferential to Clydemnestra because she's a badass, like I absolutely understand why she felt she had to kill her husband, and frankly, I am basically always here for it. But this play is too interesting to spend our time defending Clydemnestra what's done is done, and looking at Arrestes as a character, his motivations, and what's going on in his head, in addition to everything Electra ever says, is far more interesting, regardless of the fact that both of them just do not understand their mother and they are far too invested in their horrible father. Whatever. So Arrestes defends himself, or he tries to. He admits that there's probably nothing he can say to Tandarius to make the man understand him, and that's fine, but he's going to say his piece anyway. He says, quote, I am unholy, a mother killer at the same time pious and lawful, a father avenger. It's a contradiction. What should I have done? He gets it. He killed his mother, that was wrong, but she killed his father, and that too was wrong. He goes on to defend himself more by explaining that Clytemnestra had taken a lover while her husband was away his own cousin and enemy at Geese. This Arrestes admits that he killed him too, it was all for justice, and then he defends himself against the potential stoning of him to death by the bull of Argos, saying that actually he's helped Greece with what he's done because quote, picture this wanton women throughout the land, murdering husbands running to sons for refuge hunting pity with bared breasts. They'd be killing their men at the slightest pretext. Oh recipes what an absolutely wild fucking thing to theorize, and Carson makes an amazing point about this play and that it seems like there are not meant to be like any sympathetic characters. Everyone says things that we can understand, empathize with, appreciate, and then they turn around and say and do a bunch of bullshit stuff. And isn't that the more interesting part. We aren't meant to side with any one person to determine that anyone is more correct than anyone else. We're just meant to watch as this man and his family fall to fucking pieces. And I like that because I can both appreciate Orestes's character and also defend Clydemnestra and also talk about what an absolute batshit and typically male idea this is that he actually did Greece a favor, because what if he hadn't killed his mother for what she did, then all women across Grease would just feel like they can and should kill their husbands whenever they feel like it. Orestes, dude, get your shit together. Another interesting thing in all of this is that, at least up until this point, no one has really talked about the why of what Clydemnestra did. From past versions of this story, past plays, and sources, we know that Clydemnestra's primary reasoning for killing Agamemnon was that he had killed her daughter, Orestes his own sister if Aganaya sacrificed her before leaving for Troy. Now, in other versions of this, Orestes and Electra still hate their mother. They don't ever sympathize with her enough to actually understand why she did what she did, but at least that part is like mentioned and igno knowledged, Whereas here Orestes goes on to explain that actually he sees Clydemnestra as having killed Agamemnon simply because she had taken a geese this as her lover while Agamemnon was off defending Greece in war and didn't want her husband to punish her when he returned home. Like, he really makes her the villain in a very real and kind of new way. He even goes so far as to not only blame Tyndarius for even fathering Clydemnestra to begin with, but he compares her too. Yes, you guessed it, Penelope, because what's so called bad woman isn't compared to perfect and pious Penelope. Orestes says, quote, look, Telemachus didn't have to kill his mother. Why because she wasn't piling husband on top of husband. What a fucking sentence. This whole play is making me cackle with every wild statement husband on top of husband. Still, Orestes keeps going, finishing off his speech by saying, anyway, ultimately, it was Apollo who made me do it in the first place. He should be able to call upon Apollo to clear him of this charge. His last line is quote, no, don't say my deed was evil, unlucky, sad, disastrous, Yes, not evil, to which the chorus of argive women very ironically reply quote, Women always complicate things, don't they? And then Tyndarius desides that not only will he now make it his mission to convince the people of Arghosts to punish Orestes with death, but that he will do the same for Electra, And to pile on to this talk of women complicating everything, he adds that he believes that she, Electra, is even more guilty than Orestes, that she deserves death even more than him, that it was her who turned him against their mother in the first place, telling him horrible things about Clytemnestra and a geese this quote, it was Elektra set the house ablaze, not using fire. It's always the woman's fault, isn't it. Now. I think a lot of people might read a play like this, particularly if they've not read a lot of Euripides, and see all of this and as an actual indictment against women, that it's a play that might confirm the nonsense spewed say and like the Thesmo Fariazusai that Euripides hated women and wanted to make them look bad always. Instead, I read this and I see the very obvious irony that's implicit in like every line. It's the most obvious in the chorus of women amidst a time when Eurippdes only ever had choruses of women saying that women complicate things, or the way that Electra is suddenly seemingly out of nowhere, like more to blame than Arrestes. It feels like commentary irony more than anything like actually against women as people. Tendarius finishes by telling Mentelais again not to help Arrestes and to stay out of Sparta if he's going to take on criminals as friends, and with that he leaves, and we all just kind of forget the fact that Mentelais is meant to be the king of Sparta. I mean, Tindarius used to be, but I think we're still to believe that like Mentelis is currently the king. It's interesting, but ultimately not the point. Tindarius is gone, leaving Mentelais and Arrestes on stage alone with the chorus once more with his grandfather Arias gone, Orestes returns his attention to his uncle Metelius. Metelias, though, needs a minute to think through everything that's happened, and once again we get this kind of like odd interjection of comedy into this otherwise tragic play, as though Euripdes is playing with the audience, completely, playing with the irony inherent in a story like this, having comedy elements that are essentially just kind of like goofy. Metelias asks Orestes to give him a minute to speak, that sometimes silence is better than speaking, and sometimes speaking is better than silence, to which Orestes just says yes, and sometimes a long ass speech is the best option, and then he launches into exactly that, and he starts it by telling Metelius that he's not asking for a gift in his request for his uncle to save him, but what he's owed for Agamemnon's acts on behalf of menelaias so strong. Start like, just you owe me one man for what my dad did. He goes on to explain, quote, is my father undertook to do wrong, to make war on Troy, not for his own sake, but to put right the offense to your wife. So you must give back a wrong for a wrong. Arrests is lucky as father did something so utterly absurd for his brother, or he'd be well and truly fucked right about now. And Arresti's really just keeps pushing it and ensuring that he makes clear that from where he's standing, he's asking for the bare minimum from Mentalais after what Agamemnon sacrificed. He points out that he's only asking for one day from Mentalais, whereas Agamemnon gave him ten years. Oh, and he finally brings up the death of his sister Nifigania, except that it's in reference to yet another sacrifice that Agamemnon made on behalf of his brother. Nothing about her or Clydemnestra's feelings towards that murder. Just well, he had to kill his daughter to get you to Troy, and I'm not asking you to murder Hermione for me, So really, again, I'm doing you a favor. He goes on. He asked Menalais to think about what Agamemnon would say, what he would think if he were there watching. Now. He knows it's impossible, he says, but when things are impossible is when people really need friends. And then he's done. Quote, Okay, there you have it. I've made my claim. I want survival. Who doesn't. But of course the next person to speak isn't Mentalais. But the chorus again with this odd use of women quote, I'm only a woman, but I beg you to help those in need. You have the power. I am just so curious what your ipodes is doing here, but I have all the confidence that he is doing it intentionally, Like he knows the strength of women. Electra is a strong character, let alone everyone else he's written. And he's really playing with things here, playing with the role of women in this world, like infusing every line about them with sarcasm or irony, and like he hasn't even used the chorus that much except to just kind of infuse these like weird women based statements. Mentalist, though doesn't tell Arrestes what he wants to hear. He tells his nephew that he wants to be clear he does respect him, even what he did. To an extent, he wants to share his pain their family, and family also helps fight enemies, but he adds that's only possible when one has the means, and after all the horrors of the Trojan War, he does not have the means. He is confident that the armies of Argos would best him if he went to war on behalf of Arrestes, so he can't promise that. Instead, he suggests Arrestes negotiate with the people. It maybe diplomacy is the best bet, and perhaps he could even walk away from this alive, like maybe the mob of Argives could find it in their hearts to show compassion to Arrestes to spare his life. Instead, he says he'll help by trying to convince Tyndarius and the Argives to be wise in their decision. He tries to be reassuring in whatever way he can. He tells the truth this is their only and best option, and with that he leaves Arrestes on the stage with just the chorus. And Arrestes does not take this well. It's as though he hears something completely different from Metelis, some kind of like outright betrayal rather than an honest assessment of what is physically possible. It's another reminder that while Arrestes may have seemed to be lucid since Mentelis joined him on the stage, he is still fighting his demons literally as the humanities the furies just hound him internally. His first words are to call Menelais a worm, to rage that his uncle was willing to go to war for a woman Helen, but not for his nephew. And I mean he's not technically wrong there, but it seems like Mentelais was pretty upfront about why he can't help through force. It's not that he doesn't want to, it's that they'd all hi. He calls out to his own father, Agamemnon, announcing that he's friendless, betrayed, that they have no hope, all is lost. Before the very next line is quote, oh but look, here comes Piladdies, my dearest friend, a sight as sweet as calm water to sailors. Not so friendless after all? Are you? Arrestes Once again, he's done a complete about face, reminding the audience that all is not well in Arrestes his mind. He is scattered, broken, fighting at every turn, And we meet Piladdies. So we meet Piladdies, Arrestes, dearest friend, and a here that is frankly not unlike Patroclus to arrestes as Achilles is not as obvious, not in the same argument for them being romantic can't necessarily be made. But they are very very close. Pilades's first lines include quote, how are you faring, dearest, sweetest, best of friends? You know you are all these to me. He tells Arrestes that he's heard the news that he and Electra are almost certainly set to be killed later that very day by the people of Argos, and well, if Arrestes is lost, Pilades is two, he explains, and I again say Achilles and Patroclus vibes. The pair have a round of back and forth lines A stick amythia as I always want to tell you because it's the best word, and describes this kind of like quick exchange of words between characters. They talk of Menelaus, how he's in town but he isn't willing to help Arrestes. They speak of his wife, Helen, and Arrestes even says quote, oh, I think she runs the ship, to which Pilades asks, quote where is she that weapon of mass destruction? And I say again, I do love Anne Carson's translations, and I am fascinated by the references two women in this play, the near obvious tongue in cheek nature, particularly when it comes to this character, and when one imagines that your Ripides staged his very sympathetic and very pro woman play the Helen just four years before this play. The pair continue to explain what's happened with Arrestes, telling piladdies what he asked of Menelaus. His uncle's answer explaining where everyone is right now, how Tandarius is there too, and oh do they keep talking shit about Mentelais. Arrestes is pissed. Then it's on to the vote, explaining that the citizens of Argos are set to vote on his and Electra's death very soon, maybe even now. When this prompts Pilades to suggest that maybe they run, Arrestes notes that it is impossible. They're surrounded with guards stationed at every road. Quote. Our house is beset like a town under siege. Pilades now takes to telling Orestes what's happened with him, and while much like the deal with Arrestes, it's not good. Pilades, you see, helped Arrestes with the murder of Clytemnestra, and he's going to pay the price too. He tells his friend that his father has forced him out of his home, and while that's not been easy, he says, quote, but I'm no Mentalais. I can bear this, which I mean low blow to Mentalis, but I love it. Pilads goes on to explain that he's not afraid of the argive people. They're not his people. The two debate the notion of mobs generally, whether they can be reasoned with at all. They're trying to figure out what to do, but in doing so they're providing a commentary on like mob justice and justice broadly. Remember, for all the Greek tragedies are typically about stories from ancient Greek myth, they're also usually telling us something about Athens at the time. In this case, this is the last play that Euripides put on in Athens before he basically went into voluntary exile in Macedonia, giving up his homeland in favor of a power that was slowly growing and would eventually take over the Greek world. This is before Alexander, mind you, and Philip probably but not too long. The Euripides did that left everything he knew, his career, which was flourishing. He left everything for a place very far to the north, and that this was his last play. It is saying something, even if frankly we don't entirely know what, but for all, this is absolutely speaking to Athens as a city at this time. These two friends are also just determining their own fates in whatever way they discussed the possibility of speaking with the Council of Archives and attempting to plead their case and for all I'm trying to succinctly explain this bit. Their conversation is done in a fascinating way. Soup, We're gonna look at it like a little bit closer. Again, this is a stick amythia, so it's that quick back and forth of sentences. But there comes a point where Orestes and Pylades are finishing each other's sentences, which I'm going to try to convey here. Quote start with me going to the argive assembly to tell them that your actions were just in avenging my father, and although they are eager to seize you, I won't cower in silence and die. That was obviously each of their lines. It's hard. I'm not going to spell it all out anyway. It's not only a brilliant way of conveying what both men are thinking, but it really reminds the audience of their relationship. They are very close, maybe in some kind of romantic relationship, though again it's it's very safe to say either way that they could be just very good friends. But they would do anything for each other, and they know exactly how the other will behave, but they're not convinced this would work, Like maybe it would be better to run, they theorize, but again they were talking about how impossible that was. It would be different cult, but if they managed it, it would be safer then staying in Argos. And then the question now is whether or not he will tell Electra before he leaves, to which Piladies says he shouldn't. Arrestes says that she would cry if he did, and Pilatates think that is a bad omen So once again we get this really interesting thoughts on women, but they don't dwell for long on what Electra would say and if she should be told at all. Instead, Arrestes returns to considering what started the entire play, those humanities that have been hounding him within his own mind. Quote one last worry, Arrestes says, and when Pilades asks what he's referring to, he says, quote the ghastly goddesses. They'll send my wits astray. Pilattis offers to take care of Arrestes, though, and when Arrestes tells him that it would be rotten to care for him. Pilats replies, quote, not to me, not if it's you, And again I say Achilles and pat Or because vibes, and even if they weren't lovers, I am fascinated and full of joy by their friendship's lovely all the mother killing aside. Orestes, though, is more worried for what it might do to his friend to care for him in his madness. He's worried it might even like rub off on Pilades in some way. But Pilades is certain he's going to be there for Arrestes. He's going to care for him that like, that's the type of friends that they are. With things seemingly decided, it seems like Arrestes' plan is to run and Pilades will go with him, but he now wants to visit his father's tomb in a last ditch effort to pray to Agamemnon to save his son, So Pilades says he will bring him there. He will help him. For all Arrestes has been speaking, at least mostly clearly and lucidly, he still is not well. Those humanities are there, They're keeping a close eye on him, ready to spring at any moment, driving him back into his own mind and the horrors that exist with in it. Orestes and Pilates leave the stage to the chorus, who sing of the house of Atrius, that cursed, cursed house of Atrius. Quote because in ancient days, from ancient ways came strife and hideous feasting, slaughter of children, blood for blood, endlessly being paid back. They continue to sing of the acts of this family, of the mistakes, the beliefs, and righteousness, even when there's murder involved, of Arrestes killing his mother, even as she cried out to him as she screamed, Quote, child, your act is unholy. Don't make yourself infamous just to gratify your father. They sing of the blood on Orestes's hands, the furies hounding him for what he's done, the madness that consumes him, quote you wretch, Your mother bared her breast, you sank your sword in it. And then Electra joins once more. The chorus tells her what's happened, That Arrestes and Pylads have gone to the Council of Argives. But before they can say more, a messenger arrives with news, and oh, how we love a messenger here with news. Remember the action rarely, if ever, happens on stage in Greek tragedy, that is where the messengers usually come in, and this time is no different. Messenger tells Electra quote the argives voted death for you and your brother. Electra cries out distraught, but she pulls herself together enough to ask for details, to ask how she and her brother are set to die. The messenger explains how he learned this news in the first place. He just happened to be there. Actually, he'd come to speak with Agamemnon, who always gave him charity when he needed it, and instead he came upon this assembly of our guives set to vote. The assembly, who had just noticed Arrestes joining them that he'd shown up for his own trial, which then began. An old friend of Agamemnon started it. He spoke of Agamemnon's glory and but little of Arrestes is guilt or innocence, instead preferring to prioritize the glory of Agamemnon in this attempt to detract from what Arrestes is done. But it was clear that he was beholden to others in the room who weren't necessarily on the same side. So then Diametes spoke. The messenger tells Electra. Diametes was in the war with Agamemnon, a warrior, and he supported exiling Orestes rather than death. Some agreed with Diametes, the messenger goes on, others did not. Another man rose up to speak. He spoke in favor of your death by stoning. At that. Your grandfather Tyndarius spoke up in agreement. He voted that you and your brother be stoned to death. It continued like this, some speaking in favor and some speaking against, some even suggesting that they should crown Arrestes as king for how he avenged the death of Agamemnon, how he killed the godless Clydemnestra for her crimes. This man worried that women would behave in similar ways with their husbands off at war if they did not condone the death of Clydemnestra. And then Orestes himself spoke up in his own defense. He speaks similarly to that earlier man, explaining that he was fighting for all of them in the same way that Agamemnon did when he killed his mother. Because truly how women would take advantage of their situation if Clydemnestra was not seen as the criminal quote, if murder of husbands is granted to women who will escape death, should we be their slaves? It's all upside down. She was the criminal gods. It's fascinating, these obviously ridiculous arguments. I almost think of this play like as a reaction to Aristophanes says before he decide, Like Euripides saw that nonsense that Aristophanes spewed, which was only like three years before this about him giving up women's dark secrets about all the horrible things they secretly did or wanted to do. And it's like he saw that play about him and thought, well, maybe I'll give them all that play, a play where the fear is that women will do the unthinkable if they're even given the chance. That or he was writing some kind of commentary on the lives of women, broadly, like this idea that they saw their own lives as so bad that they were all all of them always willing to kill their husbands and were just merely waiting for the opportunity. Whatever he's doing here, I am just obsessed with how weird and interesting and like obviously absurd. It all is, But the Messenger isn't done Arrestes, he says, persuaded some with these arguments, but not all. In the end, theo was for death, though not stoning that much. Arrestes was able to convince them of their deaths would come at their own hands rather than the argives. And with that, the Messenger tells Electra that Pylades is bringing Arrestes to her now. Quote they're both in tears. You'll see bitter spectacle. So get your sword ready or rope. However you wish to die, Your noble birth has been no help to you, not to say Apollo on his famous oracle seat. That title was a quote from Anne Carson's translation, Oh Nerds, Nerds, Nerds, I fucking love this play, and God's I love Euripides. This play is so interesting because it normally, like really wouldn't be one of my favorites. Like, while I love this Churs family, I prefer Euripdese plays to be about, you know, women directly, but like it's this these odd ironic jobs against women here, it's Arrestes, this wild mind and behavior, like it's elektra broadly. It's the way that's so few, if any of the characters in this play are actually likable or redeeming in any way. He was playing with so many things here, and I love him for it. This has been so much fun to read and write about. I cannot wait to finish it off next week with well an enormous bang DSX Macina and all that. And while this episode is long enough, and I am really trying to make sure that this play doesn't run to four episodes. So with that, here's a very brief and lovely five star review from one of you amazing listeners. This one is from a user called vah Ramu from the States. Amazing the best mythology show. I love the feminist approach. Thank you for helping bring forth women of antiquity. Thank you. I love that I'm doing this at Let's Talk of a mits Baby is written and produced by me Live Albert MICHAELA. Smith, the hermism My Olympians, God's Michaela does everything. She's just the absolute best. I couldn't do it without her. Same with Stephanie Foley, who works to transcribe the podcast for YouTube captions and accessibility. The podcast is hosted and monetized by iHeartMedia. Help me continue bringing you the world of Greek mythology and the ancient Mediterranean by becoming a patron where I'll get bonus episodes and more. Visit patreon dot com Slashmith's Baby, or click the link in this episode's description. Thank you all. My job is so fucking cool. How is this real? I am living. I love this shit like so fucking much. Euripides

What does a dispute about foolishness have to do with him? If right and wrong are clear to all, who was ever more senseless than this man? Because he never weighed the justice of the case, nor appealed to the universal law of Hellas. For when Agamemnon breathed his last, struck on his head by my daughter, a most foul deed which I will never defend, he should have brought a charge against his mother and inflicted a holy penalty for bloodshed, banishing her from his house. Thus he would have gained moderation instead of calamity, keeping strictly to the law and showing his piety as well as it is, he has come into the same fate as his mother, For though he had just caused for thinking her a wicked woman, he has become more wicked by murdering her. I will ask you menelais just one question. If a man's wedded wife should kill him, and his son in turn will kill his mother in revenge, next to the avenger's son to xpiate this murder will commit another. Where will the chain of horrors end? Our forefathers settle these matters the right way. They forbade anyone with blood upon his hands to appear in their sight or cross their path. But they purified him by exile. They did not kill him in revenge. Otherwise, someone by taking the pollution last upon his hands, is always going to be liable to have his own blood shed. Now I hate wicked women, especially my daughter who killed her husband. Helen too, your own wife. I will never command, nor would I even speak to her. And I do not envy you a voyage to Troy for a worthless woman. But the law I will defend with all my might to put an end to this brutal spirit of murder, which is always the ruin of countries and cities alike. Heh, hi, hello, lovely to have you here. This is let's talk about Mitts baby, and I am liv She just wants to talk about Eurippides forever, but knows you all want some variety, so she promises to mix it up. After this series, maybe we'll see God's I love Eurippides because he is perfect. We are back again with more of Euripides as arresties. One of the most unique takes on the story of that cursed House of Atrius, the murders of Agamemnon and then Clydemnestra after the Trojan War. Just like last week, that long quote at the top, which was a speech that we will get to whoo and that I just couldn't help myself from reading, is a translation by Coleridge, whereas the rest of the quotes in this episode are from the incredible Anne Carson's translation, which I cannot read entire speeches from that addition too. It's called an Oristaiah, and it's wonderful because she uses one play from each tragedian, because we have this unique thing where this is the one story where all three tragedians have plays that survive that cover it. So in this edition it has Eschylus, Agamemnon, Sophocles is Electra, and then Euripides is Orestes. I highly recommend it's a great translation to remind you all where we left off. Orestes and Electra, the son and daughter of Agamemnon and Clydemnestra, have murdered Clydemnestra and retribution for her murder of their father Agamemnon. Though Orestes was the one who physically killed his mother, Electra was complicit in her own way, and so she holds her own grief and guilt along with him, though ultimately both they'll feel as though they did the right thing in killing their mother because they see their murder of their father as the worse of the crimes. Orestes, for his part in the physical act, has been hounded by the furies, who they called the humanities the kindly Ones, because humans take great care not to use the name of the Furies their true name, the Arenaways, instead using this euphemistic humanities. But it's not just the humanities that Orestes has to deal with. The people of Argos are set to convene later that day and vote on whether or not to stone Orestes and Electra to death for what they've done, but for now, he and Electra are just waiting. Of course, they're not alone. Helen is there an Argos with the siblings, along with her daughter Hermione, who is living at the palace during the war under Clytemnestra's care, and Mentelais too has joined them at this city, though he's only spoken to Arrestes so far. Metelais is, as much as has been made clear up to this point, sympathetic of Orestes, plate he certainly didn't mind seeing Clydemnestra killed for what she did to his brother. And finally, we ended last week's episode with the reveal that another important man was joining them on stage. Tindarius, father of Helen and Clydemnestra, husband of Leda, and he's wearing black in mourning for his daughter. It's the chorus of Argive women who have pointed this out as he approaches, and at that approach, Orestes is ready to panic. This is episode two O six, setting the house ablaze, not using fire Euripides's Orestes Part two. Tyndarius joins the stage and speaks to the chorus. He's asking them where Menelaius is, his son in law. He explains that he was just at his daughter's grave pouring libations for Clydemnestra, when he heard that Menelaus and Helen had arrived there in Argos too. Of course, he doesn't need the chorus to show him Mentelius, as he's also there on stage, where Tyndarius seemingly hasn't noticed him. Same with Orestes, he hasn't yet seen him. Metelius speaks first, showing himself to Tyndarius with a kind word of greeting. But before Tyndarius can say more than a quickkiloe to his son in law, he spots Orestes. Quote, here is the mother killer, snaking about in front of the house. Look at him, how he drips unhealth shudder object. Tyndarius seems to expect Metelius to side with him, to see Orestes as this murderer, deserving only of hatred. But Menelius says, quote, he is the son of my beloved brother. There are so many family dynamics at play here, two brothers married to two sisters, where so much shit goes down. It makes this particular story of familial murder so much more interesting. Brothers again, married sisters. Marriage and in laws don't change the relationships between siblings, and so Metelius is more concerned with the death of Agamemnon than he is the death of Clytemnestra, and can anyone blame him? Tyndarius, though, can only see the horror in what Arrestes has done. He questions whether Metelius thinks that he's anything like his father, like Agamemnon, the great hero of the Trojan War. At least, I mean that's how these men see Agamemnon, I of course have a different opinion. Metelias says that Orestes is like his father, Yes, just unfortunate. He confirms, though, that he has an obligation to his nephew. He doesn't say it out right, but the implication is there. A Rustes might have killed Tyndarius's daughter, but he did it because Tyndarius's daughter killed Metelius's brother. Tindarius tells Metelius bluntly, quote, your time in the East has barbarized you, to which Metelius replies, quote, it was always Greek to respect one's kin. H so much to unpack here. I know I explained this so often, but I never know who is coming to these episodes and what they do and do not know. So let me remind you all again the word barbarian in ancient Greek just means that one is not Greek, but also it is still a very judge. By spending so much time in Troy in the East, Tyndarius claims that Metelius himself has become this barbarian, But, like Mentelias says, the Greeks always had a specific way of dealing with those who murdered their family members, or rather the death of family members broadly, Metelius is clear he's more tied to his brother and thus his brother's son than his sister in law and her death. The two go back and forth when it comes to this, Tendarius isn't letting up, and neither is Metelius. They throw barbes, accuse each other if not respecting laws of getting stupider an old age. Then Tindarius launches into a speech explaining himself. This is the speech I read at the top. He rejects the idea that Metelius suggested that Orestes was acting smart in what he did. No, he says smart would have been to punish Clytemnestra for what she did, which Tyndarius agrees was horrific and wrong, but that she should have been punished the right way, cast out, sent into exile. That murder shouldn't be met with more murder quote, but as things are now, he's taken on board the same devils as she. He was right to think her evil, but this murder makes him more to blame. Then Tindarius presents this situation to Metelius for him to think about. What if one day Orestes his wife kills him and then their son kills her, and then his son kills another and returned led will it and how long will it continue? The question is both valid in terms of the law and what is right, but also it reminds the audience of the curse on Mentelais's own family, like Tantalus killed Pelops, and when Pelops was returned to life by the gods, he too killed another. And then his son Atrius killed Dieses's children, and it kept going and going all the way down to Orestes now having killed his mother, who killed his father, who killed his sister. He's right, where will it end? And for all Tandarius just had some very valid points about right and wrong and murder and retribution, revenge and everything that it contains. He then says, quote, now me, I despise impure women in the first place, my daughter who slew her husband, and this helen of yours. I won't even mention you launched a thousand ships for that. Yes, those were all things that I read in the whole speech at the top, but the are in Carson's translations in there better, so you know, don't go thinking to Darius is just a man who loved his daughters and wants to defend that he seems more interested in the crime that Arrestes committed than the actual murder of his daughter. He does, however, turn to Arrestes now and asks him very specifically, how could he do it, how he felt when Clytemnestra begged him to spare her life begged for mercy quote At any rate, it's obvious the gods hate you. You're paying off your mother's blood in bouts of lunacy. He finishes his speech by telling Metelius very clearly, don't go against the gods, don't go against the divine laws. Don't help your nephew after what he has done. Let Argos do what they're going to do. Let them kill him for the murder. His last lines are quote, I'm a fortunate man in other ways, but not in daughters. There I struck out, Oh Tenarius. Orestes is ready to defend himself against Tyndarus's words. He won't pretend that what he did to his mother wasn't bad, wasn't wrong, But he also won't pretend as though he didn't have good reason to do it. Honestly, normally, I would be way more deferential to Clydemnestra because she's a badass, like I absolutely understand why she felt she had to kill her husband, and frankly, I am basically always here for it. But this play is too interesting to spend our time defending Clydemnestra what's done is done, and looking at Arrestes as a character, his motivations, and what's going on in his head, in addition to everything Electra ever says, is far more interesting, regardless of the fact that both of them just do not understand their mother and they are far too invested in their horrible father. Whatever. So Arrestes defends himself, or he tries to. He admits that there's probably nothing he can say to Tandarius to make the man understand him, and that's fine, but he's going to say his piece anyway. He says, quote, I am unholy, a mother killer at the same time pious and lawful, a father avenger. It's a contradiction. What should I have done? He gets it. He killed his mother, that was wrong, but she killed his father, and that too was wrong. He goes on to defend himself more by explaining that Clytemnestra had taken a lover while her husband was away his own cousin and enemy at Geese. This Arrestes admits that he killed him too, it was all for justice, and then he defends himself against the potential stoning of him to death by the bull of Argos, saying that actually he's helped Greece with what he's done because quote, picture this wanton women throughout the land, murdering husbands running to sons for refuge hunting pity with bared breasts. They'd be killing their men at the slightest pretext. Oh recipes what an absolutely wild fucking thing to theorize, and Carson makes an amazing point about this play and that it seems like there are not meant to be like any sympathetic characters. Everyone says things that we can understand, empathize with, appreciate, and then they turn around and say and do a bunch of bullshit stuff. And isn't that the more interesting part. We aren't meant to side with any one person to determine that anyone is more correct than anyone else. We're just meant to watch as this man and his family fall to fucking pieces. And I like that because I can both appreciate Orestes's character and also defend Clydemnestra and also talk about what an absolute batshit and typically male idea this is that he actually did Greece a favor, because what if he hadn't killed his mother for what she did, then all women across Grease would just feel like they can and should kill their husbands whenever they feel like it. Orestes, dude, get your shit together. Another interesting thing in all of this is that, at least up until this point, no one has really talked about the why of what Clydemnestra did. From past versions of this story, past plays, and sources, we know that Clydemnestra's primary reasoning for killing Agamemnon was that he had killed her daughter, Orestes his own sister if Aganaya sacrificed her before leaving for Troy. Now, in other versions of this, Orestes and Electra still hate their mother. They don't ever sympathize with her enough to actually understand why she did what she did, but at least that part is like mentioned and igno knowledged, Whereas here Orestes goes on to explain that actually he sees Clydemnestra as having killed Agamemnon simply because she had taken a geese this as her lover while Agamemnon was off defending Greece in war and didn't want her husband to punish her when he returned home. Like, he really makes her the villain in a very real and kind of new way. He even goes so far as to not only blame Tyndarius for even fathering Clydemnestra to begin with, but he compares her too. Yes, you guessed it, Penelope, because what's so called bad woman isn't compared to perfect and pious Penelope. Orestes says, quote, look, Telemachus didn't have to kill his mother. Why because she wasn't piling husband on top of husband. What a fucking sentence. This whole play is making me cackle with every wild statement husband on top of husband. Still, Orestes keeps going, finishing off his speech by saying, anyway, ultimately, it was Apollo who made me do it in the first place. He should be able to call upon Apollo to clear him of this charge. His last line is quote, no, don't say my deed was evil, unlucky, sad, disastrous, Yes, not evil, to which the chorus of argive women very ironically reply quote, Women always complicate things, don't they? And then Tyndarius desides that not only will he now make it his mission to convince the people of Arghosts to punish Orestes with death, but that he will do the same for Electra, And to pile on to this talk of women complicating everything, he adds that he believes that she, Electra, is even more guilty than Orestes, that she deserves death even more than him, that it was her who turned him against their mother in the first place, telling him horrible things about Clytemnestra and a geese this quote, it was Elektra set the house ablaze, not using fire. It's always the woman's fault, isn't it. Now. I think a lot of people might read a play like this, particularly if they've not read a lot of Euripides, and see all of this and as an actual indictment against women, that it's a play that might confirm the nonsense spewed say and like the Thesmo Fariazusai that Euripides hated women and wanted to make them look bad always. Instead, I read this and I see the very obvious irony that's implicit in like every line. It's the most obvious in the chorus of women amidst a time when Eurippdes only ever had choruses of women saying that women complicate things, or the way that Electra is suddenly seemingly out of nowhere, like more to blame than Arrestes. It feels like commentary irony more than anything like actually against women as people. Tendarius finishes by telling Mentelais again not to help Arrestes and to stay out of Sparta if he's going to take on criminals as friends, and with that he leaves, and we all just kind of forget the fact that Mentelais is meant to be the king of Sparta. I mean, Tindarius used to be, but I think we're still to believe that like Mentelis is currently the king. It's interesting, but ultimately not the point. Tindarius is gone, leaving Mentelais and Arrestes on stage alone with the chorus once more with his grandfather Arias gone, Orestes returns his attention to his uncle Metelius. Metelias, though, needs a minute to think through everything that's happened, and once again we get this kind of like odd interjection of comedy into this otherwise tragic play, as though Euripdes is playing with the audience, completely, playing with the irony inherent in a story like this, having comedy elements that are essentially just kind of like goofy. Metelias asks Orestes to give him a minute to speak, that sometimes silence is better than speaking, and sometimes speaking is better than silence, to which Orestes just says yes, and sometimes a long ass speech is the best option, and then he launches into exactly that, and he starts it by telling Metelius that he's not asking for a gift in his request for his uncle to save him, but what he's owed for Agamemnon's acts on behalf of menelaias so strong. Start like, just you owe me one man for what my dad did. He goes on to explain, quote, is my father undertook to do wrong, to make war on Troy, not for his own sake, but to put right the offense to your wife. So you must give back a wrong for a wrong. Arrests is lucky as father did something so utterly absurd for his brother, or he'd be well and truly fucked right about now. And Arresti's really just keeps pushing it and ensuring that he makes clear that from where he's standing, he's asking for the bare minimum from Mentalais after what Agamemnon sacrificed. He points out that he's only asking for one day from Mentalais, whereas Agamemnon gave him ten years. Oh, and he finally brings up the death of his sister Nifigania, except that it's in reference to yet another sacrifice that Agamemnon made on behalf of his brother. Nothing about her or Clydemnestra's feelings towards that murder. Just well, he had to kill his daughter to get you to Troy, and I'm not asking you to murder Hermione for me, So really, again, I'm doing you a favor. He goes on. He asked Menalais to think about what Agamemnon would say, what he would think if he were there watching. Now. He knows it's impossible, he says, but when things are impossible is when people really need friends. And then he's done. Quote, Okay, there you have it. I've made my claim. I want survival. Who doesn't. But of course the next person to speak isn't Mentalais. But the chorus again with this odd use of women quote, I'm only a woman, but I beg you to help those in need. You have the power. I am just so curious what your ipodes is doing here, but I have all the confidence that he is doing it intentionally, Like he knows the strength of women. Electra is a strong character, let alone everyone else he's written. And he's really playing with things here, playing with the role of women in this world, like infusing every line about them with sarcasm or irony, and like he hasn't even used the chorus that much except to just kind of infuse these like weird women based statements. Mentalist, though doesn't tell Arrestes what he wants to hear. He tells his nephew that he wants to be clear he does respect him, even what he did. To an extent, he wants to share his pain their family, and family also helps fight enemies, but he adds that's only possible when one has the means, and after all the horrors of the Trojan War, he does not have the means. He is confident that the armies of Argos would best him if he went to war on behalf of Arrestes, so he can't promise that. Instead, he suggests Arrestes negotiate with the people. It maybe diplomacy is the best bet, and perhaps he could even walk away from this alive, like maybe the mob of Argives could find it in their hearts to show compassion to Arrestes to spare his life. Instead, he says he'll help by trying to convince Tyndarius and the Argives to be wise in their decision. He tries to be reassuring in whatever way he can. He tells the truth this is their only and best option, and with that he leaves Arrestes on the stage with just the chorus. And Arrestes does not take this well. It's as though he hears something completely different from Metelis, some kind of like outright betrayal rather than an honest assessment of what is physically possible. It's another reminder that while Arrestes may have seemed to be lucid since Mentelis joined him on the stage, he is still fighting his demons literally as the humanities the furies just hound him internally. His first words are to call Menelais a worm, to rage that his uncle was willing to go to war for a woman Helen, but not for his nephew. And I mean he's not technically wrong there, but it seems like Mentelais was pretty upfront about why he can't help through force. It's not that he doesn't want to, it's that they'd all hi. He calls out to his own father, Agamemnon, announcing that he's friendless, betrayed, that they have no hope, all is lost. Before the very next line is quote, oh but look, here comes Piladdies, my dearest friend, a sight as sweet as calm water to sailors. Not so friendless after all? Are you? Arrestes Once again, he's done a complete about face, reminding the audience that all is not well in Arrestes his mind. He is scattered, broken, fighting at every turn, And we meet Piladdies. So we meet Piladdies, Arrestes, dearest friend, and a here that is frankly not unlike Patroclus to arrestes as Achilles is not as obvious, not in the same argument for them being romantic can't necessarily be made. But they are very very close. Pilades's first lines include quote, how are you faring, dearest, sweetest, best of friends? You know you are all these to me. He tells Arrestes that he's heard the news that he and Electra are almost certainly set to be killed later that very day by the people of Argos, and well, if Arrestes is lost, Pilades is two, he explains, and I again say Achilles and Patroclus vibes. The pair have a round of back and forth lines A stick amythia as I always want to tell you because it's the best word, and describes this kind of like quick exchange of words between characters. They talk of Menelaus, how he's in town but he isn't willing to help Arrestes. They speak of his wife, Helen, and Arrestes even says quote, oh, I think she runs the ship, to which Pilades asks, quote where is she that weapon of mass destruction? And I say again, I do love Anne Carson's translations, and I am fascinated by the references two women in this play, the near obvious tongue in cheek nature, particularly when it comes to this character, and when one imagines that your Ripides staged his very sympathetic and very pro woman play the Helen just four years before this play. The pair continue to explain what's happened with Arrestes, telling piladdies what he asked of Menelaus. His uncle's answer explaining where everyone is right now, how Tandarius is there too, and oh do they keep talking shit about Mentelais. Arrestes is pissed. Then it's on to the vote, explaining that the citizens of Argos are set to vote on his and Electra's death very soon, maybe even now. When this prompts Pilades to suggest that maybe they run, Arrestes notes that it is impossible. They're surrounded with guards stationed at every road. Quote. Our house is beset like a town under siege. Pilades now takes to telling Orestes what's happened with him, and while much like the deal with Arrestes, it's not good. Pilades, you see, helped Arrestes with the murder of Clytemnestra, and he's going to pay the price too. He tells his friend that his father has forced him out of his home, and while that's not been easy, he says, quote, but I'm no Mentalais. I can bear this, which I mean low blow to Mentalis, but I love it. Pilads goes on to explain that he's not afraid of the argive people. They're not his people. The two debate the notion of mobs generally, whether they can be reasoned with at all. They're trying to figure out what to do, but in doing so they're providing a commentary on like mob justice and justice broadly. Remember, for all the Greek tragedies are typically about stories from ancient Greek myth, they're also usually telling us something about Athens at the time. In this case, this is the last play that Euripides put on in Athens before he basically went into voluntary exile in Macedonia, giving up his homeland in favor of a power that was slowly growing and would eventually take over the Greek world. This is before Alexander, mind you, and Philip probably but not too long. The Euripides did that left everything he knew, his career, which was flourishing. He left everything for a place very far to the north, and that this was his last play. It is saying something, even if frankly we don't entirely know what, but for all, this is absolutely speaking to Athens as a city at this time. These two friends are also just determining their own fates in whatever way they discussed the possibility of speaking with the Council of Archives and attempting to plead their case and for all I'm trying to succinctly explain this bit. Their conversation is done in a fascinating way. Soup, We're gonna look at it like a little bit closer. Again, this is a stick amythia, so it's that quick back and forth of sentences. But there comes a point where Orestes and Pylades are finishing each other's sentences, which I'm going to try to convey here. Quote start with me going to the argive assembly to tell them that your actions were just in avenging my father, and although they are eager to seize you, I won't cower in silence and die. That was obviously each of their lines. It's hard. I'm not going to spell it all out anyway. It's not only a brilliant way of conveying what both men are thinking, but it really reminds the audience of their relationship. They are very close, maybe in some kind of romantic relationship, though again it's it's very safe to say either way that they could be just very good friends. But they would do anything for each other, and they know exactly how the other will behave, but they're not convinced this would work, Like maybe it would be better to run, they theorize, but again they were talking about how impossible that was. It would be different cult, but if they managed it, it would be safer then staying in Argos. And then the question now is whether or not he will tell Electra before he leaves, to which Piladies says he shouldn't. Arrestes says that she would cry if he did, and Pilatates think that is a bad omen So once again we get this really interesting thoughts on women, but they don't dwell for long on what Electra would say and if she should be told at all. Instead, Arrestes returns to considering what started the entire play, those humanities that have been hounding him within his own mind. Quote one last worry, Arrestes says, and when Pilades asks what he's referring to, he says, quote the ghastly goddesses. They'll send my wits astray. Pilattis offers to take care of Arrestes, though, and when Arrestes tells him that it would be rotten to care for him. Pilats replies, quote, not to me, not if it's you, And again I say Achilles and pat Or because vibes, and even if they weren't lovers, I am fascinated and full of joy by their friendship's lovely all the mother killing aside. Orestes, though, is more worried for what it might do to his friend to care for him in his madness. He's worried it might even like rub off on Pilades in some way. But Pilades is certain he's going to be there for Arrestes. He's going to care for him that like, that's the type of friends that they are. With things seemingly decided, it seems like Arrestes' plan is to run and Pilades will go with him, but he now wants to visit his father's tomb in a last ditch effort to pray to Agamemnon to save his son, So Pilades says he will bring him there. He will help him. For all Arrestes has been speaking, at least mostly clearly and lucidly, he still is not well. Those humanities are there, They're keeping a close eye on him, ready to spring at any moment, driving him back into his own mind and the horrors that exist with in it. Orestes and Pilates leave the stage to the chorus, who sing of the house of Atrius, that cursed, cursed house of Atrius. Quote because in ancient days, from ancient ways came strife and hideous feasting, slaughter of children, blood for blood, endlessly being paid back. They continue to sing of the acts of this family, of the mistakes, the beliefs, and righteousness, even when there's murder involved, of Arrestes killing his mother, even as she cried out to him as she screamed, Quote, child, your act is unholy. Don't make yourself infamous just to gratify your father. They sing of the blood on Orestes's hands, the furies hounding him for what he's done, the madness that consumes him, quote you wretch, Your mother bared her breast, you sank your sword in it. And then Electra joins once more. The chorus tells her what's happened, That Arrestes and Pylads have gone to the Council of Argives. But before they can say more, a messenger arrives with news, and oh, how we love a messenger here with news. Remember the action rarely, if ever, happens on stage in Greek tragedy, that is where the messengers usually come in, and this time is no different. Messenger tells Electra quote the argives voted death for you and your brother. Electra cries out distraught, but she pulls herself together enough to ask for details, to ask how she and her brother are set to die. The messenger explains how he learned this news in the first place. He just happened to be there. Actually, he'd come to speak with Agamemnon, who always gave him charity when he needed it, and instead he came upon this assembly of our guives set to vote. The assembly, who had just noticed Arrestes joining them that he'd shown up for his own trial, which then began. An old friend of Agamemnon started it. He spoke of Agamemnon's glory and but little of Arrestes is guilt or innocence, instead preferring to prioritize the glory of Agamemnon in this attempt to detract from what Arrestes is done. But it was clear that he was beholden to others in the room who weren't necessarily on the same side. So then Diametes spoke. The messenger tells Electra. Diametes was in the war with Agamemnon, a warrior, and he supported exiling Orestes rather than death. Some agreed with Diametes, the messenger goes on, others did not. Another man rose up to speak. He spoke in favor of your death by stoning. At that. Your grandfather Tyndarius spoke up in agreement. He voted that you and your brother be stoned to death. It continued like this, some speaking in favor and some speaking against, some even suggesting that they should crown Arrestes as king for how he avenged the death of Agamemnon, how he killed the godless Clydemnestra for her crimes. This man worried that women would behave in similar ways with their husbands off at war if they did not condone the death of Clydemnestra. And then Orestes himself spoke up in his own defense. He speaks similarly to that earlier man, explaining that he was fighting for all of them in the same way that Agamemnon did when he killed his mother. Because truly how women would take advantage of their situation if Clydemnestra was not seen as the criminal quote, if murder of husbands is granted to women who will escape death, should we be their slaves? It's all upside down. She was the criminal gods. It's fascinating, these obviously ridiculous arguments. I almost think of this play like as a reaction to Aristophanes says before he decide, Like Euripides saw that nonsense that Aristophanes spewed, which was only like three years before this about him giving up women's dark secrets about all the horrible things they secretly did or wanted to do. And it's like he saw that play about him and thought, well, maybe I'll give them all that play, a play where the fear is that women will do the unthinkable if they're even given the chance. That or he was writing some kind of commentary on the lives of women, broadly, like this idea that they saw their own lives as so bad that they were all all of them always willing to kill their husbands and were just merely waiting for the opportunity. Whatever he's doing here, I am just obsessed with how weird and interesting and like obviously absurd. It all is, But the Messenger isn't done Arrestes, he says, persuaded some with these arguments, but not all. In the end, theo was for death, though not stoning that much. Arrestes was able to convince them of their deaths would come at their own hands rather than the argives. And with that, the Messenger tells Electra that Pylades is bringing Arrestes to her now. Quote they're both in tears. You'll see bitter spectacle. So get your sword ready or rope. However you wish to die, Your noble birth has been no help to you, not to say Apollo on his famous oracle seat. That title was a quote from Anne Carson's translation, Oh Nerds, Nerds, Nerds, I fucking love this play, and God's I love Euripides. This play is so interesting because it normally, like really wouldn't be one of my favorites. Like, while I love this Churs family, I prefer Euripdese plays to be about, you know, women directly, but like it's this these odd ironic jobs against women here, it's Arrestes, this wild mind and behavior, like it's elektra broadly. It's the way that's so few, if any of the characters in this play are actually likable or redeeming in any way. He was playing with so many things here, and I love him for it. This has been so much fun to read and write about. I cannot wait to finish it off next week with well an enormous bang DSX Macina and all that. And while this episode is long enough, and I am really trying to make sure that this play doesn't run to four episodes. So with that, here's a very brief and lovely five star review from one of you amazing listeners. This one is from a user called vah Ramu from the States. Amazing the best mythology show. I love the feminist approach. Thank you for helping bring forth women of antiquity. Thank you. I love that I'm doing this at Let's Talk of a mits Baby is written and produced by me Live Albert MICHAELA. Smith, the hermism My Olympians, God's Michaela does everything. She's just the absolute best. I couldn't do it without her. Same with Stephanie Foley, who works to transcribe the podcast for YouTube captions and accessibility. The podcast is hosted and monetized by iHeartMedia. Help me continue bringing you the world of Greek mythology and the ancient Mediterranean by becoming a patron where I'll get bonus episodes and more. Visit patreon dot com Slashmith's Baby, or click the link in this episode's description. Thank you all. My job is so fucking cool. How is this real? I am living. I love this shit like so fucking much. Euripides