Let's Talk About Myths, Baby! Greek & Roman Mythology RetoldRE-AIR: You Know He Basically Invented Robots?! Hephaestus & His Forge
Revisiting the must underrated of Olympians... Hephaestus beyond the drama: the importance and lasting impact of the god of the forge (there are *robots*!).
CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing.
Sources: Theoi.com; the Homeric Hymn to Hephaestus translated by Hugh Evelyn-White; Gods and Robots by Adrienne Mayor.
Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions.
Hi, Hello, and welcome. This is Let's talk about MIT's Baby, and I am your host live now today. I am here with a re airing episode because well I can, and because I didn't have it in me to write five to six thousand words of funny, researched smart stuff and then record it when.
Just too sad.
So I am here with a re airing episode so that you all don't have to listen to my sad, because no one wants that, and with any luck, it'll go away soon. But when I was looking for which episode I wanted to reair today, I was just kind of scrolling back in my list, And every time I do that, it's like this reminder of just how many episodes that I put out at any given time, which, honestly, like I'm being silly, but I am so ridiculously proud of the content that I have put out over the last six years, Like not only the volume, because the volume is there, but the stories that I have been able to tell, and the characters that I have been able to focus on, and the experts that I have been able to talk to. Honestly, it helps with the sad, you know, to just look back and like register what I've accomplished. I did the same thing looking at I posted some photos on Instagram as this kind of twenty twenty three wrap up, and it is so beneficial. Sometimes I think, like the last December was the worst month of my life in so many ways, Like I just I can't express like the number of things that happened in December to just like sort of pile on on top of me. And so it kind of made, you know, the whole end of the year feel like it was just a wash. And looking back at pictures and seeing the amazing things that I have been able to do through this podcast, and because all of you listen to it, it's truly like, absolutely, you know, the greatest thing to ever happen to me. So for all that December was the worst month of my life, twenty twenty three, generally up until November was really great.
It was really great.
I don't know quite why I'm saying this, but if you happen to be in a similar situation of just being in a place of absolutely overwhelmingly just just drowning in sadness, look at your phone's photos from before the sadness and just kind of keep going and it's a great reminder of all the things that you know that are good. Outside of that. Oh, there's so much to say.
Anyway.
All of that is to ramblingly say that when I was looking for an episode, I was reminded of the little series that I did on Hefeistis a couple of years ago. You know, I spoke with Kyle Lewis Jordan, who is just so brilliant and lovely and actually one of the great things that happened to me in twenty twenty three before all of the bad was partaking in a colloquium where I actually met Kyle in person, which was so much fun. Among so many other incredible people that I've met online through the podcast and then I got to meet in person. It was such a thrill. It's actually also where I first met Nadira in person the more recent guest of Conversation episode. Anyway, that's all to say, Heffistas my Adhd is wilding today, guys. I'm I'm just going with it because I just I can't not. I'm not going to play you the Heffistus Conversations episodes. I have already re aired those if you want to listen to them, though, oh please do. They were so incredibly good. Kyle was so insightful talking about he Fistus as a disabled god and what that looks like and disability broadly, and they were incredible episodes. It was a two part so if you're interested in finding those to listen, just go to your podcast app and search the word he Fistus. I'm pretty sure there's not going to be a ton of episodes to just find mine. But today what we're gonna do is listen again to the scripted episode that I did that kind of was tucked in between those two episodes with Kyle that just talks about the mythological references to Heffistas and all that he accomplished and all of the incredibly cool things that Heffistus was known for do when he, you know, is otherwise this god that we really just think of as being kind of like smart but maybe bumbling, like can't keep his wife in check, all of those bad stereotypes. Heffeistus is so underrated. He is this god who is just really not seen in the light that they saw him in the ancient world. Because they did they gave him a disability, and obviously there's nothing wrong with that, and I think it makes him more interesting. But in a modern world that's kind of been focused on in a more negative way and turned him into a character that he just wasn't in the myths, Like, yes, he had sort of an awkward relationship with his wife Aphrodity, but aside from that, he was incredibly fucking cool. Sometimes dangerous for sure, but incredibly fucking cool. I've actually been considering writing him into this, like I don't know, I'm gonna work on a series of novels I think, and he's going to be part of it. And so I've just sort of had this new thrilling love of Epheistus, and thus I'm have bing you all listen to the episode I did on him about how he basically invented robots.
So sit back and enjoy.
This is episode one hundred and thirty four. You know, he basically invented robots, Hephistus and his Forge. The basics of Hephistus's origins are this. He was born of Hara, just Harah. He was born of just Harah because Hara was fucking sick of watching her husband succeed in the thing that.
She was the goddess of damn it.
Harah was a goddess of motherhood, and yet her fucking husband was always able to have all these children all on his own. At least that's how he saw them. Athena and Dionysus, both children were in fact very much born of their mothers. It's just that Zeus either ate or killed their mothers before they were born, and thus the babies finished.
Their gestation in Zeus.
Doesn't mean he birthed them all on his own. Harrah meanwhile, did exactly that she had Ephystus all on her own. Now, this is a complex story and definitely isn't the only version, because simultaneously Hephaistis also takes place in Athena's birth story. Zeus ate her mother Matus after he learned that the Titans child would outperform Zeus, and before long found himself with a horrible headache. According to these most entertaining versions, Zeus has this horrible splitting headache, kind of like the one I had yesterday after my second dose, and he calls upon Ephyistus to help. I wish I had Epheistus yesterday. Hepistus is a craftsman and he gets all his tools and whatnot. He's the perfect god to solve Zeus' problem. So Hefphistus cleaves at Zeus's head and bam, splits it intwo and out pops Athena and then I don't know, Zeus's head reforms right there. It's messy and a mystery, especially when you take into account the primary reason for Herphyistus's conception was Haah being mad at Zus for conceiving Athena. I've said it before, I'll say it again. Do not spend too much of your time trying to track down when and why when it comes to Greek mythology. You will never get anywhere, and you will get incredibly frustrated because yet doesn't make any fucking sense regardless. Hephistus is, for some reason or another, born of just Harah, badass in itself. Way to go Hara, except when Hephaestus is born, Harrah.
Sees that he has a club foot.
For this, it seems, she throws him off of Mount Olympus, or sometimes Zeus does it instead. Whoever does the actual throwing, it is often, if not always, because of his foot, because well, the Olympians fucking suck, and I guess sometimes they also feel a bit like partaking in eugenics. Perfect beings they are not. According to Homer, after Ephistus was thrown off Olympus, he was raised by Thetis and Uryinymy to Oceanids, who took him in and treated him as their own. It was with Thetis and Uryinomy that Hephiastus learned his arts and became this super powerful, super important god. Because Ephistus is one of the most powerful gods and certainly one of the most important overall and specifically to the lives of the ancient Greeks. Where would they be without his craftsmanship, without his forge? I mean, do you have any idea how much the ancient Greeks crafted pottery, metalwork, weapons, the whole, A lot of it all.
Because of Hephistas.
Where would they be without this god? And of course without the fire. This places him on a similar level to Hestia, who is.
The goddess of the sacred hearth fire i e.
The fire in everyone's homes and in temples and the like. These two are linked for their power over fire, and both are tied very closely with the everyday lives.
Of the Greeks.
The Greeks needed Hephistus in a way they definitely did not need Zeus. As I said today, I want to focus mostly on Hephistas, beyond Olympus, beyond the way the Olympians constrained him, and beyond the ultimately very problematic stories of him that are tied to the other Olympians.
Let's talk creation.
Hephistus had the power to create life. According to Hesiod, He's the one who forms Pandora out of clay. The other gods give her characteristics and clothing and lots of other things, but Hephistas created her. But Pandora is human. And let's be honest, we all want to hear about the robots, the automatons. We learned about them very briefly in my episode with Kyle, but they're absolutely worth going into further, and so I had to. There are many references to these beings being created by Hephistus, these metal, moving, thinking and talking beings, these fucking robots. In the Iliad, Hephaistus is speaking with Thedus as he prepares to create new armor for Achilles. He and Thedas have a close relationship. She's one of the two oceanids, who took him in as a child when he was rejected by his family, who loved him and treated him kindly, who taught him all that he knows, or at least taught him enough to learn all that he knows. The craftsmanship, the creation is all Hephistus. So in the Iliad, as he prepares to make this armor, Homer has this very simple line, as though it isn't one of the coolest things to come out of the ancient world. He says, quote, and in support of their master, moved to Fistus's attendants. These are golden and in appearance like living young women. There is intelligence in their hearts, and there is speech in them, and strength, and from the immortal gods they have learned how to do things. These stirred nimbly in support of their master, and moving to where Thedis sat in her shining chair. Hephistus has created golden beings, like creatures made of gold, to help him in his forge. There's mention before this of Hephaestus so called limping, and so it's also an interesting note to mention that not only did he create these golden women, and that they are women. I think is extra interesting. But he created these fully functioning golden women to help him in his forge. As I imagine it, they help him with everything, both things relating to his impairment and otherwise they aid him a bit, But otherwise they also just help him in the forge, something I imagine is pretty tricky and tiring in a lot of work. Who wouldn't want help. The Olympians certainly aren't going to help him. They just want him to make every single thing they could ever want or need. But he not only has these helpers that he's created from scratch. They're women, their robotic automaton women helping a man forge weapons. It's pretty fucking cool. According to Philostratus, he quote.
Made the gold breathe.
Of course, these metallic beings aren't the only automated, lifelike creations of Hephaestus, nor are they remotely the most famous. For Alcinous, the king of the Faaceans of the Odyssey, he created gold and silver watchdogs, or maybe they were even griffins that served as guardians, lifelike and imbued with some kind of life force that made them able to protect the palace.
For eighties.
This king of Colchis and father to Medea, son of Helios. He created bronze bulls. These were enormous creatures that appear to have been full of life, like Epheystus's helpers and his forge. They're a task for Jason Yoking, these enormous bulls with bronze hoofs that breathed fire and were explicitly the creations of Hephistas. The writer Pausanius wrote of an early temple at the Oracle of Delphi, one made entirely of bronze and built by Hephistus. And of course Epheistis made all of the palaces and security systems of Olympus, unbreakable locks, and everything the gods could ever want or need. Hephistus could make anything the Greeks could dream up, Which leads me to Tallos. I can never remember what I've already told you about Tallos, but I don't think it's enough. Tallos is an enormous automaton, a robot who patrolled crete and kept the island safe from pirates and anyone else looking to do them harm. Some say Tallos was a gift of Hephaistus to the king Minos, Others that he was a gift from Zeus to Europa after he you know, left on an island to start a bull obsessed dynasty far away from her homeland. But in that case he was probably still made by Hephistus. All of the good versions of Tallos have him built by Hephastus, because basically, if it was bronze and incredible and technologically advanced, then it was built by Hephistus. Talos not only patrolled the island of Crete, keeping it safe, but he was big enough and fast enough to patrol the entire island three times every day.
He did.
However, I have one weakness. He had one blood vessel, basically his life source, running through his body and ending in his ankle. There it was either protected by only a bit of thin skin or by a stud that could be removed. Either way, Talos was eventually taken out by the Argonauts as they sailed away from Colquis and attempted to land on Crete. It may have been Medea who did it, or who told one of the heroes how to do it. The most famous heroes to have done away with Tallos are the Diascori, the Twins Castor, and Polydeuces.
Still defeated or not.
Talos was an incredible character and one that seems so far beyond even the Greek myths in terms of imagination of thinking up what could ever be possible, because Hephistas could make anything. The Hephistus that appears in the Iliad is a very interesting one. Firstly, he isn't married to Aphrodite, but to a woman named Aghlia sometimes called Kras, who is one of the charities and the goddess of beauty, splendor, glory, and adornment. At the same time, the story of his marital problems with Aphrodite are mentioned in the Odyssey, with the story of him trapping her and Aries together. My beloved to website theo dot Com notes that this could be suggesting that he and Aphrodite divorced and Hefeistus then married a Golia, because when he catches Aphrodite and Ares, he explicitly asks Zeus for the marital gifts he paid in order to marry Aphrodite, which is basically like asking for a divorce. That kind of makes sense, but that Hephistus is happily married to a nice woman who isn't in love with Ares is not the most exciting aspect of him in the Iliad, and neither is the fact that he handcrafts the most incredible, unbreakable and invincible arm or ancient epic had ever seen, because he does that too. There is a section in the Iliad that's pretty famous because of what Achilles does, but Hephistis does it too. They both fight a river, a river the river's commander or xanthis to be precise. First, Achilles fights the river because he's Achilles, but he does this out of necessity because really all he wants to do is reach Hector and avenge the death.
Of poor Patrick Liz.
So before long, Hara calls to her son Hephistus and asks him to take over and fighting the river. The implication here, in a natural sense is this river is flooding and something needs to be done. Practically speaking, it's flooding because it's full of bodies, and the best solution for both of these problems is fire. Hephistus listens to Hara and he goes to fight to the river, and he does it with fire. He sends enough fire to engulf the bodies that had overtaken the banks of the river that are causing it to flood, and he burns them. He dries out the plane and everything around to prevent the river from continuing to flood. It's an interesting passage because it's simultaneously clear what's happening from a practical human perspective, but also Heffistus is very clearly fighting this fucking river, especially in the Iliad, though absolutely elsewhere.
Hephistus really is a.
Badass, badass and ingenius, because it's in the Iliad where we get an idea of just how many things Hepphistas has made, not just for humans, not just providing them with the skills to make their own things, but the physical things he has made for the gods on Mount Olympus, which is basically everything.
In the Iliad.
Homer sings of Hephistus building the palaces of the gods, the most beautiful and technologically advanced buildings in all the Greek world. He sings of Hara's bedroom built by Hephistus, which has a secret, hidden lock that no god can open save for her. Homer sings of Zeus' home built by Hephistus for the king of the gods. He sings of all the thrones built by Hephistus for the gods of the jewelry and weapons, and literally everything that is made by human hands all ultimately made by Hephistas. It was Epheistus who made Achilles' armor, and Ephystus who made the urn, where in the end Achilles' ashes were mixed with Patrocluses so they could be together forever, sing clear voiced muses of Hephyistas, famed for inventions with bright eyed athena. He taught men glorious gifts throughout the world, men who before used to dwell in caves in the mountains like wild beasts, But now that they have learned crafts through Hephystas, the famed worker, easily they live a peaceful life in their own homes the whole year round. Be gracious, Hephistas, and grant me success and prosperity. That is the entirety of the Homeric came to Ephistas, which I think says a lot about his importance and his simplicity in a good way, as in when it comes to the daily life of the Greeks, they saw him as someone important to them who gave them unspeakable gifts and all that, but not really a figure of dramatics or trouble, not one for entertainment, just practicality. Hephistas was incredibly important as a god. He was a creator and a builder and basically the reason the Olympia had anything cool or technologically involved. It was all Hephistas. He was also an example of a person with a physical impairment in the ancient world, a reminder that the Olympians were molded after human beings. They were human in their own ways, and as Kyle Lewis Jordan laid out so brilliantly in our conversation last week, Hefistus was in his way a disabled god, but he was a god disabled by the Olympians themselves. As a craftsman, Hepistus had found and built ways of doing anything he could possibly need to. He wasn't affected by his impairment. He'd figured it out. He made all the best armor, and built all the best structures and invented fucking robots. He could do it all, even though the Olympians didn't make it easy. So while I did want to focus primarily on non Olympian bits about Hepistas, I do want to remind you of some of his most famous stories because they're fascinating when it comes to his ingenuity and ability to create some of the most absolutely wild shit. But also, as Kyle pointed out out in our conversation, there are complexities that are often overlooked and issues that other Olympians likely wouldn't face in the same way that Epheistus does. First, as we also made clear in that conversation, all of these fascinating things about Hephistas and all the ways the Olympians made life difficult for him or fucked with him do not absolve him of the shit he did. But these things do add some complexity and nuance to some, if not all, of those shitty things, because for the most part, all of the shitty things that happened in and around Olympus revolved around Hephistus trying to gain some acceptance among his family and his home where acceptance was hard to come by, and that's where things get a little bit messy. But as Kyle brought up, the Olympians themselves are often overlooked when it comes to the reasons and issues surrounding Hepistus's actions. They seem to be trying to keep him down. They are the ones that disable him, that keep him from being as powerful as he is clearly able to be. The problematic story surrounding Hephistus all ultimately come down to Olympus and.
His place there.
When you break it down, it's more about him trying to regain some agency and power over his life. He just does it in dark ways. Hepiastus's life began with him being outright rejected by his family, literally thrown off a mountain. The story of him returning to Olympus after being thrown off and raised among the oceanids is a story of revenge and a story of how Aphrodite ended up married to a man she didn't love. Whether Hephistus ever loved her too is very much up for debate. Hephistus was looking to punish his mother for throwing him off of Mount Olympus, for rejecting him in.
The way that she did.
You know, the focus is on the tossing a kid off a mountain thing, and I mean that's obviously bad, just objectively bad. But the rejection of your child because he doesn't meet your opinion of what is and is not perfect in your Olympian eyes.
Is a whole other level. Of fucked up.
I think it says something about Hara in that same way that so many of her stories do. This idea of an angry, wronged woman and all this shit she'll do because of it, rather than looking at why she's so angry. That doesn't apply here in the same way as it does to you know, punishing the women's us assaults, but it still speaks to the general approach to women, specifically Harah in the people that told these stories. Regardless, Hepheistus is pissed, and I mean rightfully so. And well, he's cunning and he's got some real ingenuity because what he does to punish his mother is gift her with a throne. The gift is, as you might have guessed, a trap. As soon as Harrah sits down, the throne snaps into action, locks her onto the seat. She can't move, she can't get up, she definitely can't escape. And this is Hephaistus who's created the throne. So not only can Haara not escape, but none of the Olympians can help her escape either. She is well and truly stuck.
Just fucked.
In an attempt to have his wife freed, Zeus makes a proposition whoever frees Haah gets to marry Aphrodite dark I know there are some versions where this is also based in Zeus's desire to keep Aphrodite from fully utilizing her power. If she's married to someone she isn't into and that wasn't her choice, then the goddess of love is inherently less powerful when it comes to well the love. No one is able to free Harah, and ultimately she's only freed when Hepheistus is convinced by Dionysus that he should be the one to free hara and thus win Aphrodite's hand, even though he was the one who trapped her in the first place. That part is reasonable. He trapped her, he can free her. But what we don't know here is whether or not Hefeistus actually wanted to marry Aphrodite, or whether this ultimately put him in the same position as her, married to someone he didn't love. I could certainly see Hepeistus freeing Haraah out of kindness that's a relative term, or just being sick of all the drama, or just because she's clearly learned her lesson. From there, he would end up married to Aphrodite, whether he liked it or not, because such is the will of Zeus. Still, none of this excuses how he handles Hara or his marriage to Aphrodite, though there are ways to see it through Hepphistus's eyes and through the eyes of people back then and what their rights were when it came to marriage. As you might recall, and as I've briefly mentioned already, one of my favorite stories of Hephaistus, Aphrodite and Aires is the time that Helios spotted Aphrodite and Ares having sex in the home that she shared with Ephistus on Olympus. Helios told Hephistus, and Hepeistus fashioned a net of chains that were invisible so he could and did trap Aphrodite and Ares. In the act he shows the other Olympians in an attempt to get some kind of compensation for the fact that his wife is cheating on him, and the other Olympians all laugh. This has been a favorite story of mine, mostly due to the absurdity of it visually and because I absolutely love Ehreditian Airees together. I just always have. I think they're the only example of two Olympians actually loving each other in the mythology and mutually, but I'll admit I also thought it was funny when the Olympians.
All laughed at Hepistis.
I mean, if you just imagine it, it's funny. But at the same time, I'm now able to see it in a different way because, as Kyle pointed out, would that have happened to any of the other Olympians if the roles were reversed, if Ares was married to Aphrodite and she was cheating on him with Hephistas, would the other Olympians laugh at Ares? I mean, probably not. I suppose they do like chaos, so maybe, but I can't see them howling with laughter at the god of war being insulted.
In that way.
But they do laugh when it comes to Heffistas. And in this moment again something that was mentioned in my conversation with kyl Ou Jeordan and that I never really considered. The ramifications of Hepistus is not just showing off this fidelity to the gods. He isn't just trying to shame or embarrass Aphrodite and Ares, though.
That's part of it.
He's trying to get his dowry back, trying to get the marital gifts that he paid to Zeus when he married Aphrodite. In essence, he's taking back his power in the relationship, taking back his own agency on Olympus, and as I mentioned earlier, potentially even formally divorcing Aphrodite so that he could marry someone he loved and who loved him Aglia.
So obviously Hephaistus's.
Solution is gross and weird, but when it comes to the world back then, the rights of the husband, et cetera, it is a bit more understandable. Still gross and weird, but you can see where it comes from, and you can see especially how skewed this act is for Hephaistus rather than anyone else. The character of Hephaistus and how he's treated on Olympus is fascinating and really isn't something I'd considered before or really been.
Able to see.
I guess he really is the most powerful god generally, and so the Olympians, finding every way imaginable to keep him under their thumb makes a lot of sense. They disable him through their own treatment, the way they make his life harder in order to keep him subjugated and beholden to them.
That way, he's still there to.
Make everything for them to do their bidding, but he isn't able to realize just how powerful he actually is beyond them. I mean, if anyone could take on Zeus objectively, it's Hephistas, because without Ephistas, Zeus wouldn't even have his lightning bolts, and where would he be. Then without Hephistas, Ares wouldn't have weapons or armor, neither would Athena. Without Hephistas, the gods wouldn't have anything. Thank you all so much for listening. I don't have much more to say because I just rambled so much in that opening, but thank you so much for listening. Thank you for supporting the show. Thank you for allowing so many things that I could look back on and find happiness amongst the grief and sadness. I'm really really grateful for this podcast and for everyone who listens and supports me and loves the show and tells me that they love the show and reminds me that there are so many people listening to me doing this and that it is so beneficial in so many ways. It is the greatest thing you've ever happened to me, and you all are a huge part of it. So thank you all so much. If you can't tell. I'm recording this on January second, so I'm feeling very New Year's eye. But yeah, thank you all so much for being part of everything, and for listening and everything in between. You are all incredibly cool. I am live, and I love this shit, and I can't wait to be out of my grief whole and find joy in writing scripts again. It'll be soon, I know it.
